Herero and Nama Genocide in Namibia
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- One of the most famous wars of resistance against the Germans was carried out by the Herero and Nama people in what is now present day Namibia. German treatment of the Herero and Nama people was particularly brutal. Thousands of Herero were shot dead during the Herero war in 1905
Africa has and still is getting raped of all they have preserved. People of Africa lived simple lives and did not depleat the earth of all her resources. The greed of some people are sickening.
What they did in Africa they took back to use into Europe that ended up in 10s of millions dead. Herero and Nama Genocide was the starting point of Germany's genocide. This is a sad story of the Herero and Nama most do not know of globally.
the sound is too low
@ BlobalBlackHistory - I beg your pardon, but I have to confess, that I do have some problems to understand the occurrences in the former Deutsch-Südwest-Afrika, nowadays named Namibia. So I would appreciate very much, if you could answer my questions and help me to understand:
a. The killing there was started by the Herero - which they called “opstand” - to get the land back, where the farmers settled on. So is the explanation of the Hereros till today. But all farms till the “opstand” of the Herero was bought by the settlers in proper form and for a lot of money from the Herero - by all means, prior to the “opstand” there were no confiscation of Herero-land by the German authorities. My question: Why did the Herero want just this land back, that they had some years before sold for a lot of money to exact these settlers?
b. The Herero did not simply shoot the German farmers - but partially tortured them to death, by cutting off ears, noses, genitals and excelling of eyes whilst they were still alive. My questions: Why did the Herero massacre the farmers as pigs in a slaughterhouse? Did your ancestors really believe, the Germans would accept such bestialities without any reaction?
c. The Herero massacred 123 farmers - 5 bouren and 118 German farmers. My question: Why did they not harm or touch any British farmer, which lived as well in Southwest and on land they had, as well as the German farmers, bought in a proper form and for a lot of money from your ancestors?
d. The Hereros fled themselves, after the battle at the Waterberg, into many directions - but the main-group fled to British-Betshuanaland, where they had asked for asylum, long before their start of the massacres - and this request for asylum was generous granted by the British immigration-office there. This means, the Hereros took exactly the very same escape-way, they had planned from the very first begin, in case their terrorism would fail. My question: Why the Hereros - and you too - are accusing the Germans, they would have driven the Hereros in the Omaheke - when the Hereros in advance of their terror had planned exactly that escape-way to British-Betshuanaland?
e. As we know, the German troop did not succeed in closing their ring around the Waterberg region (to disarm the gunman and to stop the terror in a short military action), due to the confusing area - for a whole fighting group (group "Heyde") got stuck and could not interfere but was lost for one and a halve days. Due to the permanent shooting of the Herero-rearguard, the Germans realized not before 2 days - that the Hereros was vanished unrealized. This means, the Herero fled themselves, without any knowledge of the Germans - and without any pressure of them - on the very same way they had planned from the very first beginning - and what they had even agreed and political ensured in advance with the British. My question: Why are you claiming till today the Germans would have driven your ancestors in the Omaheke to die - even though they took this way absolutely unsolicited?
f. In advance of the fight at the Waterberg it was raining extremely in this region, so the Hereros could hope to find sufficient water in the Kalahari. The rearguard of the Herero protected the main-group of their tribe perfectly, by permanent shooting, burning the bush and poisoning of waterholes - so that the Germans could not follow - as the German military-reports are multiple respectfully mentioning. But the rain from the Waterberg region, did not reach the Kalahari. So the basically ideal rearguard-tactic - turned into a deadly trap for the Herero themselves - for they had blocked with this tactic their own way back. My question: Why are you claiming the Germans would have blocked the waterholes, what would have caused the death of thousands - when these waterholes where in the BACK of the fleeing Herero - and which the Hereros had already leaved 2 before?
g. Already shortly after the start of the first fights - the German Governour subitted the first peace-offer to the Herero - which was promptly refused by the Herero. During the enduring fights, the German protection-troop submitted two further peace-offers to the Hereros to stop the fights and to gain peace. But all these peace-offers were refused by the Hereros. My question: Why did the Herero not accept all 3 (THREE) peace-offers of the German troop, but wanted to continue the fights - and are now accusing Germany for genocide, even though it has asked 3 times for peace?
h. During military battles, it is conventional, that prisoners of war are taken - and wounded enemies are medical supported. My question: Why did the Hereros not take any prisoners or supported the wounded - but cut them into pieces, whilst they were still alive?
i. The Herero started the massacres and the fights - they refused 3 peace-offers of the German and wanted to continue the fights - they fled themselves without any pressure of the German to British-Betshuanaland - on the very same way they had planned from the very first beginning - and what they had even political-ensured with the British - and a lot of them died in the Kalahari due to their rearguard-tactic, what turned in a deadly trap for themselves. My question: Why are you accusing Germany till today for genocide - and for the death of thousands - even the German had submitted 3 peace-offers and wanted to stop the fights from the very first beginning?
I would really appreciate some answers - for I have really to confess, that I am absolutely unable to understand your comments and your attitude. In case of any difficulties to answer my questions, I would suggest to read some NEW history books - no propaganda off course - and to have a look esp. in German and British military-archives.
So you are suggesting it's okay for a foreign army to come into your land, setup farms and start stealing the entire country? Namibia is not Germany or British, and you were both wrong to disrupt the lives of people who had done nothing to you.
The Namibians are in full right to protect their lands and territory by any means necessary. The Germans were 100% wrong to use advanced weapons in excessive way against a people who were determined to protect their lives and dignity.
It was a Genocide, the first Genocide in the last Century. Although the 6 Million innocent Jews who were massacred across Europe by Nazi-Germans is enormously severe, but nevertheless Namibia suffered greatly!
@ Road House - I would have appreciated very much, if you would have answered the questions of my first statement. But apparently you are not able to answer these with (logical) facts, so that I can understand your (and the Ovaherero) opinion.
On the other hand, there is apparently and seriously no basis to discuss the former occurencies with you - for you have apparently neither basic nor specific knowledges.
For example: The farmers BOUGHT the land from the Herero-captains - they did nighter steal it nor invided they by fire and sword. And the 'advanced weapons' - the Herero was supplied by the British with about 20-30000 (different data in the British archives) absolute modern Lee-Enfield- and Henry-Martin-Rifles - whilst the Germans used old-style Mauser-Rifles. And the 'people who determined to protect their lives and dignity' - started the terrorism and the fights - and did not want to stop fighting, even Germany had submitted 3 (THREE) peace-offers to gain peace. And the 'first genocide of the last century' - was started by the Britisch in South-Africa and India, as you should know.
If you want to discuss the occurencies of that time, please inform yourselves in advance; so that we can discuss on facts - for on basis of emotions we can't discuss.
Wow ok, This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Although I am not a historian and do not have a deep understanding of this genocide, even my feeble mind can find some things you apparently can't.
a. The killing there was started by the Herero - which they called “opstand” - to get the land back, where the farmers settled on. So is the explanation of the Hereros till today. But all farms till the “opstand” of the Herero was bought by the settlers in proper form and for a lot of money from the Herero - by all means, prior to the “opstand” there were no confiscation of Herero-land by the German authorities. My question: Why did the Herero want just this land back, that they had some years before sold for a lot of money to exact these settlers?
It's quite a well-known fact the Germans wanted to further expand into Africa. By using the Herero land for "development" they would benefit both, however, they were using the land for a rail system which would mainly be used to further invade Africa and exploit resources, this is such a well-known fact that I am amazed you don't know about [Otavi railway line]
This new railroad would allow transport of more Europeans into areas and would also force Herero people into concentrated "reservation areas"
Similar to the trail of tears in a way, your introducing a plan to allow in a swarm of more Europeans, and are being forced into reservations, It's pretty obvious you wouldn't like this.
Now, why did the Herero sell the land?
A few reasons
First off, the initial purchase of the land was fraudulent, and by a older chief in 1883, decades before the Genocide. You can't expect something that happened decades ago for them to blindly follow that. Initially, it must have been ok, but once the Germans planned a massive expansion it evidently was not.
The Herero did not simply shoot the German farmers - but partially tortured them to death, by cutting off ears, noses, genitals and excelling of eyes whilst they were still alive. My questions: Why did the Herero massacre the farmers as pigs in a slaughterhouse? Did your ancestors really believe, the Germans would accept such bestialities without any reaction?
Source?
Oh wait the only source I could find is from a quote from the General who ordered the genocide.
Ignoring that fact if this *IS* true which i'm not quite sure about, this is an atrocity, but this doesn't warrant a genocide. You paint the Germans as saints here, does the slow execution of 80% of a native population seem much better? Does killing the woman and children in the desert, and then forcing the rest in concentration camps and gruesome medical experiments and all sorts of other atrocities, is that all justified for an attack?
c. The Herero massacred 123 farmers - 5 bouren and 118 German farmers. My question: Why did they not harm or touch any British farmer, which lived as well in Southwest and on land they had, as well as the German farmers, bought in a proper form and for a lot of money from your ancestors?
Because... The British weren't involved? It was a German expansion?
d. The Hereros fled themselves, after the battle at the Waterberg, into many directions - but the main-group fled to British-Betshuanaland, where they had asked for asylum, long before their start of the massacres - and this request for asylum was generous granted by the British immigration-office there. This means, the Hereros took exactly the very same escape-way, they had planned from the very first begin, in case their terrorism would fail. My question: Why the Hereros - and you too - are accusing the Germans, they would have driven the Hereros in the Omaheke - when the Hereros in advance of their terror had planned exactly that escape-way to British-Betshuanaland?
You literally say here the British were uninvolved making your top point void, but lets talk about this second point.
Yes they wanted to go there for Asylum, but fewer than 1000 did. To this who did not make it, they could not escape back out of the Desert due to the Germans stopping them. Now trapped in the Desert they died. Simple, they attempted to reach their target, most didn't and the Germans stopped them from retreating.
e. As we know, the German troop did not succeed in closing their ring around the Waterberg region (to disarm the gunman and to stop the terror in a short military action), due to the confusing area - for a whole fighting group (group "Heyde") got stuck and could not interfere but was lost for one and a halve days. Due to the permanent shooting of the Herero-rearguard, the Germans realized not before 2 days - that the Hereros was vanished unrealized. This means, the Herero fled themselves, without any knowledge of the Germans - and without any pressure of them - on the very same way they had planned from the very first beginning - and what they had even agreed and political ensured in advance with the British. My question: Why are you claiming till today the Germans would have driven your ancestors in the Omaheke to die - even though they took this way absolutely unsolicited?
They went there to escape, but few ever made it. Trotha ordered the sealing of the desert, IN A PURPOSFUL WAY to kill any people who attempted to escape.
f. In advance of the fight at the Waterberg it was raining extremely in this region, so the Hereros could hope to find sufficient water in the Kalahari. The rearguard of the Herero protected the main-group of their tribe perfectly, by permanent shooting, burning the bush and poisoning of waterholes - so that the Germans could not follow - as the German military-reports are multiple respectfully mentioning. But the rain from the Waterberg region, did not reach the Kalahari. So the basically ideal rearguard-tactic - turned into a deadly trap for the Herero themselves - for they had blocked with this tactic their own way back. My question: Why are you claiming the Germans would have blocked the waterholes, what would have caused the death of thousands - when these waterholes where in the BACK of the fleeing Herero - and which the Hereros had already leaved 2 before?
Again, the Herero attempted to escape to British areas but could not make it, thus making them stuck with these waterholes, which the Germans poisoned and destroyed, which did in fact kill many.
g. Already shortly after the start of the first fights - the German Governour subitted the first peace-offer to the Herero - which was promptly refused by the Herero. During the enduring fights, the German protection-troop submitted two further peace-offers to the Hereros to stop the fights and to gain peace. But all these peace-offers were refused by the Hereros. My question: Why did the Herero not accept all 3 (THREE) peace-offers of the German troop, but wanted to continue the fights - and are now accusing Germany for genocide, even though it has asked 3 times for peace?
Source?
OH wait the only source I can find is from the General who ordered the genocide.
Also isn't this the same guy who said that "Any Herero found inside the German frontier, with or without a gun or cattle, will be executed. I shall spare neither women nor children. I shall give the order to drive them away and fire on them. Such are my words to the Herero people". Wow what an appealing offer when your trapped in a desert and stepping on German land = death, and there is no way to escape.
h. During military battles, it is conventional, that prisoners of war are taken - and wounded enemies are medical supported. My question: Why did the Hereros not take any prisoners or supported the wounded - but cut them into pieces, whilst they were still alive?
Again. Source, if it's from the General forget it.
Why did the Germans take prisoners and perform gruesome medical experiments in order to "prove" racial superiority?
i. The Herero started the massacres and the fights - they refused 3 peace-offers of the German and wanted to continue the fights - they fled themselves without any pressure of the German to British-Betshuanaland - on the very same way they had planned from the very first beginning - and what they had even political-ensured with the British - and a lot of them died in the Kalahari due to their rearguard-tactic, what turned in a deadly trap for themselves. My question: Why are you accusing Germany till today for genocide - and for the death of thousands - even the German had submitted 3 peace-offers and wanted to stop the fights from the very first beginning?
Great peace offers, wanted to stop fights from the beginning?
Why did he deploy 14 thousand troops in the area, a number so large it cannot be simply for peacekeeping no matter what you say.
Why did they make concentration camps?
Why did they only stop after international pressure?
Please help me understand
Megalodon Unlocked That's a good thing in my mind, an idiot who justifies genocide who spreads his idiocity is better gone
@ meric - .....Although I am not a historian and do not have a deep understanding of this genocide.....
I respect, that you invested a lot of work to comment my statement and i respect as well, that you declared that you don't have a deep understanding of this "genocide". But I only cited historic books and publications of Germany, England, Netherlands and Namibia originu. And I am, as well as yourselves, no historian - but I have a rather understanding of the occurances at that times in Namibia. And I can tell you, that in my opinion, your conclusions are emotional understandable - but at all of them factual wrong.