Deciem & The Ordinary Science Chat with Prudvi Kaka and Dr Davin Lim | Lab Muffin Supp Info
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- @drdavinlim and I sat down with @Deciem Chief Scientific Officer Prudvi Kaka (PK) very early one morning (well, early for me at least - Davin gets up before dawn and PK's in Canada). We covered The Ordinary's products, active ingredients, testing product efficacy, ingredient incompatibilities and more.
Main channel bit.ly/labmuffinyt
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0:53 Do you use your own products? Which ones?
1:07 What's your skincare routine?
1:22 Who does Deciem's formulations?
2:11 How do product ideas come about?
2:59 How did you get into formulating skincare?
3:31 What does your R&D department look like? How long have you been at Deciem?
4:41 When will The Ordinary's chemical sunscreens be released? Can you tell us more about them?
7:26 How stable are The Ordinary's retinol products?
9:55 Refrigerate your retinol for 3 month shelf life
10:24 How do you ensure your products are effective? (lots of talk about the different types of testing)
12:31 Do you do clinical testing?
13:26 Has the testing changed since you've been at Deciem? Have you gone back and tested the old formulations?
14:08 Why does Deciem say you can't use vitamin C with copper peptides?
16:40 How did 100% ascorbic acid powder come about? Do higher percentage vitamin C products work better?
22:25 Why 100% niacinamide powder?
23:52 Testing niacinamide, L-ascorbic powder mixes for penetration and irritation?
25:15 Taking into account ethnic variations when releasing products in different countries?
26:25 Why does Deciem say you can't use niacinamide and vitamin C together?
28:35 Any more DIY products coming up?
29:35 Can most people really use AHA 30% + BHA 2% Peeling Solution once a week?
32:35 Testing products in terms of how consumers tend to overuse them?
36:09 What else can't copper peptides be used with?
37:20 Why aren't there many gels or creams from The Ordinary?
38:14 Have you tested the effectiveness of different formulations?
39:33 Different approaches with NIOD and The Ordinary formulations?
40:41 Disease-specific product lines?
41:49 Next big ingredient for The Ordinary?
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Lab Muffin Beauty Science is a channel by me, Michelle - I'm a chemistry PhD and beauty lover, here to explain how beauty products work, debunk myths, and help you make smarter decisions about your skincare, hair and makeup!
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Uhm, that was awesome! What a great video concept; it really shed some light and context on what Decium is like and where they’re headed. And I have to give Decium credit for the window of transparency offered in this video. It gives me some confidence that they’re on a positive path, and they’re a little less enigmatic now. While it’s clear that they have great products that are very popular, the corporate culture and motivations are harder to get a picture of. This helped!
I’m genuinely thrilled. Well done guys! Y’all need to do this again, like when the next The Ordinary product launches.
And I love hearing that Decium is open to feedback like Michelle’s epic scoop size video. Y’all handled that hot potato pretty gracefully. Respect!
Deciem is my fav brand. And I've always wondered how they operate internally. And this video absolutely shed some light on that for me, in unexpected ways even. There were a couple times during the interview where a '?' was asked and my immediate response was "SHOTS FIRED!". But the CSO handled those questions very skillfully and also managed to alleviate the tension. Makes me love that company more. In retrospect, it really makes sense that this is a Canadian based company.
Just Wow. Glad I did chemistry at school. Excellent questions. Thorough answers.
Prudvi didn't answer their questions about adverse effects from high percentage of vit. c. directly.... even though Michelle went over it again in case it wasn't clear and then Davin did as well....
thank you for this great interview with the CSO of Decium. It's fascinating to learn about all the R&D considerations of formulation and effectiveness. I'm in basic science cancer research, and our initial discoveries are sooo far removed from any final drug/ product.
I wish you asked him about the possibility of using new UV filters for regions where they are approved!
This was great. Would love to know more about NIOD next time, though. For example, how potent of an antioxidant serum is Survival 0? We’re products that like NEC and FEC tested in vivo, and what were the results? How do you respond to the claims that copper peptides are dangerous?
They answered the Niacinamide issue but gave grace for it by acknowledging that they took notes from your video, which is *a great step for Deciem* 👏👏👏
Definitely a rewatch. This was amazing!
Very comprehensive, thank you!!
That was fascinating!!!
Excellent video. Thank you.
So informative. Great stuff 😌
That was impressive. Clearly a test for me as fan of the Ordinary. Thanks,
Looks like the Chief Scientific Officer PK is of Indian origin (sorry if I'm wrong). I just hope they launch in India soon. People love it over here.
Yes his name totally indicates that he is from southern part of India.
yeah it would be a dream come true! He needs to launch them in India asap and other countries near India like Nepal too! But I don't think it's up to him to do that.
That guy is indian and I'm wondering why the Ordinary still hasn't made it here.
Didn't realize this video was here. Glad I saw it! Thanks.
This was amazing, I’ve been using the Ordinary and NIOD for years because of how much science they put into their products, I enjoyed the information.
i'd be scared to death if Michelle were my thesis examiner.. her replying questions were so on point *not to mention the intimidating face expression :D
This is so true haha
All through deciem is a brand that has all my trust and wallet! I love their approach to skincare and how see through they are!
19:27 lol Michelle, you're too precious! I'm assuming both you and Dr Lim were kinda sleepy during this haha
OMG!!!! The first one here...😍😍😍
I love sooo much your work Michelle!!! Lots of love from Canberra 💕💕
📣📢📣📢 I am going to say...there is something seriously wrong with the YT algorithm
that *THIS OUTSTANDING* video does not have a kajillion views and likes plus comments
of recognition. Like hellllo yes there was some serious REAL TALK with big language
used and maybe it was TOO MUCH for many without an understanding of science and
chemistry etc. Outstanding Michelle and Dr. Lim ,,,, The Ordinary really needs to take
greater care and I have been here in Canada and a user since first year. I have seen
young girls ruin their skin and also pple of fabulous colour causing non reversible
altering of skin colour.
I love this video.
P.S.: I did not even remember what a conjugated system is (it has been 10 years since I looked at organic chemistry).
Please, make these kind of videos more often :D
Thank you! I have a comprehensive video on how sunscreens work in the making, we'll talk a lot about conjugation there 😉
This video is super helpful! I was always so curious about Deicem's instructions regarding copper peptides. I love their CAIS, but I do miss using other actives in the same routine. Sounds like its more of a precaution than hard rule and someone could be able to use vit c derivative or azealic acid together if PH is near 4.5.
Dear Mr Prudvi Kaka,
It seems Deciem is going to make a sunscreen with avobenzone, but this chemical leaves yellow stains on clothes after washing. Also, both organic and inorganic sunscreens can leave white stains on clothes (business cotton shirt or wool jacket) even after 15 or 30 minutes of application. If your RD team can formulate a product with no such two problems, it should be a great hit. Sunscreens need to be used all year round, not only on the beach. It needs to be applied on all sun exposed areas: on scalp if someone is bald, on face, ears, both sides of the neck, decolette and palms.
Did anyone else miss dr. davin lim on yt?🤗
I didn’t even know this channel existed, I’m a fake Lab Muffin stan 😔. Anyways subscribed and turned on notifications. Great video, very insightful. I’d love to see brands like the ordinary reach out more on a personal level than a few paragraphs under the product listing.
Can you do a video explaining polypodium/fernblock and resveretrol and other oral supplements that are meant to provide antioxidant protection that could help with sun exposure
I have a question. Why are so many of the ordinary products always out of stock? 😂
cheap amd good to use
So glad to come across this chat. if we can get another chance for another chat, when is Deciem coming to Singapore please? There are so many fakes here or so many middlemen that the products ended up rather expensive. Also, why can't some items like Alpha Arbutin, AHA BHA and a few others be delivered here if I order direct from USA? Thx!
English is my second language.... so I’m not sure, but he wasn’t trying hard to answer the questions properly, right?
Great effort from Dr Davin and Michelle, as always! Thank you 😊
I use the Ordinary peel (30% AHA) twice per week EXACTLY per the instructions. I am very happy with results and worked up from 8% AHA for an entire year before hand. Why do people try to overuse?
wow davin lim
Wow, it was pulling teeth trying to get answers from him. How awkward!
And also, I do love their powders but I'm also not overdosing my half a scoop and I know my skin well.
Please review more NIOD products - the (CAIS 3.1)!!
Can COPPER PEPTIDES be combined with TRETINOIN. I don't have sensitive skin.
Kinda bummed they are not putting any of the latest filters in their sunscreen mentioned, hopefully that changes.
Since I started using The Ordinary, I have seen a lot of changes in the texture of my skin but face a lot of problems coz not all products are available on Amazon India
👍👍👍
I feel like I'm watching a thesis defense at the beginning of the video hehe lurv it!
Waaaah I didn't know that I have to keep my retinol in the fridge aaaaand only for 3mo lol I have mine for 2yrs now just sitting there on my vanity 😱
28:54 lmao. Alexa, play Savage by Megan Thee Stallion
#Asians ✊👊
Anyone else watching this in January 2022 and wondering when that hybrid sunscreen will finally come out?
They need to bring back the salicylic acid 2%
It in "reformulation" officially but i'm starting to loose hope they ever intend to put in back in stock ... i wish they would give an estimate date
The old one pretty much burned my face off... so... I'm good.
@@AIVDT ho noooo i feel so bad for you.. i usually have quite a sensitive skin so i get the stuggle of spending money on something that end up burning your face :/ but suprisingly it was fine for me ... I mean i was only using it as a spot treatment or on area i knew blemishes were about to pop up, so maybe that's why.
coming soon 🤫
How long will trentinoin in a tube that has never been open or exposed to heat be good? I have tube that expired long ago but I am loathe to throw them out ....could they still be good?
Does it have an expiry date? The expiry date is for the unopened product so it'll be good til then... after that it's a crap shoot, and the company won't tell you if it's still good cos liability...
@@labmuffinsupplementaryinfo2765 Yes, it is way past the expiry date. And of course no one will tell me if it is still useful.
If it hasn’t been opened I’d use it.
But I’m a more reckless/fearless/don’t care type.
If you’re still worried perhaps use it on your body instead.
- back acne
- chest sun spots
- stretch marks on bum/thighs
Why does the Ordinary's 10% niacinamide serum break me out? In looking at reviews online, some people love it, but others have developed cystic acne as a result which has been my experience as well. I wonder what that's about.
It could be the higher percentage, the zinc, or any other or combination of ingredients in the product. A lot of people have this issue with the ordinary niacinamide sorry it didn’t work out for you 😔
Wait zinc oxide and avobenzone...? I thought the FDA didn’t allow those two in one product?
They are encapsulated.
The dude in the comments has a point, combining zinc oxide and avobenzone isn't permitted in the US lol
Which are the two products he uses personally? Buffet and ? Can anyone write down the time stamp 😞
1:00 “and multi peptide serum for hair density”
@@alessandrasuarez9482 Thank you 🙂
Ironically enough, even though the ordinary comes from Canada, we can't buy that 30%aha Peel in Canada. 🤔😔
Can't buy it in NZ either!
@@---qr7nq (sigh).... Yeah, but at least you're in new Zealand. Can't beat that going into spring👍😊
Sadly, high acid % are not allowed to be sold OTC due to Canada's different regulations.
Mr. Prudvi kaka is Indian..i could guess from his accent btw he is genius
Why, why, why the Estee Lauder ?!
Since this partnership we don't buy the ordinary products. 🐭🐰🐵 etc. wants to be free, wants to live, no testing on them.
Shame ...🧐
If you keep buying the ordinary products as long as the brand itself doesn’t test on animals, then you are using your purchasing power to show Estee Lauder that this is what you as a consumer want. And if Estee Lauder then sees that the brands that does not test on animals are higher in demand, they will keep investing in these brands and perhaps even change the policies for their other brands! 🐰💕☺️
@@susanneflora3133 Thank you for kind answer, but I don't belive for politics change of companies like Este Lauder. The hard job of Brandon Truaxe was in vaine, it's a pity ! And if The Ordinary wants to continue the the current one politics, would never choose the EL. So the situation is clear.
Thanks The Ordinary, but enough. It's a pity once again ...😟
My dream is to visit dr Davin lim to get clear skin
Ever since Brandon died the ordinary is not the same anymore...we could tell from the product they have lost their potency and effectiveness
i think Michelle is sleeping in the video, she keep asking the same question which PK has already answered very clearly.
If it's about efficacy testing, they were actually different questions, roughly:
* Do you test product efficacy before launching products? Indirectly, we test penetration using a Franz cell and confocal Raman spectroscopy
* Did you always test efficacy before launching new products? Not until recently
* Now that you have the capability, have you gone back to test older formulations and modify them to make them more effective? No
Mr PK also sometimes doesn't quite answer the question... so she follows up.
@@labmuffinsupplementaryinfo2765 YES ..... I think continually bringing these points to light Michelle is important .... like you just did on video this week Jan 2021 on The Ord. products.
Kaka is so boring
You can see that he does not do these kinds of things that often. I don't think he's boring. Don't you think being the chief scientist at Deciem is an interesting thing? 😆
He not. He's just super awkward infront of the camera. All the brilliant people are!