I've recently gotten back into RC after a nearly 20 year break and your videos have been incredibly valuable. Thanks I have my first radio with Expo and I don't use rates at all. It seems to be the best of both worlds by having full throw without having to hit a switch in an emergency situation while at the same time having smooth characteristics around the center of the sticks. Mind you I don't fly 3D just lots of TnG's for now till I get my confidence back. Thanks again.
One of the most informative videos I have ever seen. Appreciate the info and especially the explanation and demo. Made so much sense to hear and see exactly what you are sharing based on your knowledge and experience. Thank you.
Love all your videos Mike...There is a reason companies let you represent them,, your know your sh@&.... Thanks friend,, I learned tremendously from you,,,, Keep the videos and teaching coming,,,,
I agree 100% about resolution and the mechanical advantage of your linkage geometry. The linkage geometry determines what force is need to be generated by the servo to over come a resisting deflection force. However, the total amount of force generated by the servo motor and gears for a GIVEN geometric set up will be the same regardless of how many degrees of rotation of the output gear turns, it just may not be enough to allow the surface to move. If you have 100 oz-in servo it's always going to be delivering 100 oz-in of force through its entire deflection. All deflections have alteration in mechanical advantage due to the changing alignments of the servo arm and control surface horn. Example:A horizontal arm that travels in an arc loses mechanical advantage as it leaves it 90 degree center. It's mechanical advantage is least where you need it the most which is at the extremes of surface deflections. The more a Servo moves past its 90° position the worst mechanical advantage is going to be because it has now moved in two different planes of motion. The idea is to find The Sweet Spot within the range of what your Servo is capable of generating as a force and not to take away to much from that max by having a bad geometry that too greatly reduces deflection work, The strongest setup with the greatest mechanical advantage is to have all your servo arms at 90° to the control horns and never move them LMAO.
The effectiveness of the servo is relating to the net of force required to move the surface under load. IN other words, 1 lb of force required to deflect, will require 2lbs if geometry is wrong. I understand servo power is same... HOld the surface with bad and good geometry and you will feel the difference very easily. I hope it clarifies
@@MichaelWargoWe agree. I think a little more emphasis on Linkage geometry will clarify what you're trying to communicate.The seesaw example is not doing it, if you stand arm extended, try to rotate your head that's the output gear, try to push something with hand elbow or shoulder. These are the servos you bought for whatever reason, so, good geometry allows you to get the most out of it. In your discussion about travel versus dual rates I understood it very well, but if a newbie might find it a little hard to follow. Perhaps a simpler explantion might br Travel volume gives you the maximum possible movement and dual rates gives you options to cut back on that movement depending upon how many options you want and how many switches you got. You know in your last sentence to me you say you hope it clarifies things thanks for the help, but I thought I was helping you. Perhaps it is my fault I should have been more clear.
Thanks for clarifying about full throw and full range… just got my first 3D foamy and same thing.. came with these MASSIVE servo horn extenders which were getting me full throw at around 30-40%. My thought was they wanted it to be quickest response, but I often wondered about the granularity of the servo at that level. So weird that they tell you to do it essentially the wrong way…
Another great video, I can't even begin to explain how much these videos have helped my flying, can you do a video on edf jets landing speeds, and properly setting the cg? It would greatly be appreciated, keep up the great work
So do I set up my jets the same way with going to max and increasing the end point on the radio to as far as it can go? Or is this for my 3D planes type of set up?
Not as far as radio can go, physical limits on surface. Sometimes physical limits on jets can be too much depending on the jet. Dial it back if that is the case. Do it mechanically though. If you shorten the servo arm, you increase accuracy, torque and resolution rather than simply lowering the rate. Understand? Get all you can unless detrimental in some way. Most of the time, go to physical limits.
@@MichaelWargo Gotchya. I’ll be setting up my boomerang sprint v1 and T-One Models Fortune mini. Want to make sure I do it right. I know on the mini, I can usually get book high rates right before the ball link touches the actual surface where the servo mounts. Which I need book highs on elevator, and around 3-4mm less travel on ailerons than book highs. And same with my sprint. It needs ailerons cut way down other wise it’s way too sensitive
Hi Michael. Sorry to hijack the chat from @wickedmoto. Informative video by tons. However, I do hv some questions. Firstly, for jets wen u mean adjust the physical limits mechanically, how much is enough? E.g I have a T1 2.2m, the low rates calm for 25mm up n down on Elevator. Of course my End Points/ATV should be more than this. So, wen I electronically set my radio, I get about 88 for up elevator and about 76 for down elevator and this is translating to about 35mm for up and down elevator. I am unable to change servo hole locations On both the surfaces as they do not offer adjustments. Secondly, when setting up dual/triple rates for jets, if the manufacturers do not offer a high and medium rate, how many percent increments between the medium and high and from low to medium would be a good ball park figure? Thanks in advance Michael.
This is confusing as hell. So its not the servos actual travel distance being changed. It's the angle of the control surface compared to stick travel. So why not set servo travel to 140%, and adjust the servo linkage to achieve the desired angle at that percentage of stick travel?
I am not actually sure what you are asking. It is very simple. To get the surface to reach max, we have no idea how far the servo will need to travel. SO... adjust the travel number until it stops. we never know exactly the number. What ever number it ends up is 100% travel of the surface. Make sense?
@@MichaelWargo Sorry, I'm very new to the hobby and eager to learn. The travel adjustment on the radio should go to 150% right? I'm using an ix12, and tried this but the radio travel stopped at like 130% one direction the wouldn't go past 100 in the other direction. Maybe I was doing something wrong.🤔 Will give it another try. Thank you for your help.
You are not getting the concept of the travel. The travel on the radio doesn’t mean anything it’s an arbitrary number to get the physical limitations established if you set the travel to a point where the travel goes to 150 but the surface stops moving at 120, you have to set it to where the surface stops moving and that will be what is reflected in 100% rates so back off the travel until the surface stops moving and in the case that it might be 123 or 133 or any random number, stop there and then it is that correctly
Why did they set it up that way? Horizon is more concerned about how their products fly off the shelves than how they fly in the air. Everything seems to be a price-point for them, it doesn't appear to me that they have any legitimate passion for the hobby anymore.
You should be explaining mechanical advantage without all the gobbledygook. This is a very confusing video. Simply stated, the closer to center on the servo, the more mechanical advantage the servo has. It let's the servo work less hard for the same amount of load it is moving. Long servo arms are fine for light loads, but make the servo work harder . Placing the linkage on the outside hole of the horn on the control surface, gives the most mechanical advantage for moving that surface. So in a perfect world, you would want to have the control horn linkage on the outside hole, and the servo linkage on the inside hole to put the least amount of load on the servo. Of course this is not always possible, so you need some compromise to meet the limitations of the radio adjustments.
In a time of clickbait and to much opinions this is pure value. Thank you Michael. Greatings from Belgium
I've recently gotten back into RC after a nearly 20 year break and your videos have been incredibly valuable. Thanks
I have my first radio with Expo and I don't use rates at all. It seems to be the best of both worlds by having full throw without having to hit a switch in an emergency situation while at the same time having smooth characteristics around the center of the sticks. Mind you I don't fly 3D just lots of TnG's for now till I get my confidence back. Thanks again.
Thank you! That was a good advice to improve the setup of my planes!
One of the most informative videos I have ever seen. Appreciate the info and especially the explanation and demo. Made so much sense to hear and see exactly what you are sharing based on your knowledge and experience. Thank you.
I have the Eratix and this has given me a lot to think about. New 3D pilot.
I really like your work on this one Michael. Great Job.
Love all your videos Mike...There is a reason companies let you represent them,, your know your sh@&.... Thanks friend,, I learned tremendously from you,,,, Keep the videos and teaching coming,,,,
Thank you my friend! YOur comment made my day!
Even though I understand this, the demonstration with the wood sticks was very well illustrated. Thanks.
Great information for setting up the best advantage resolution/torque for servos...
It takes time but well worth the effort 😉
I agree 100% about resolution and the mechanical advantage of your linkage geometry. The linkage geometry determines what force is need to be generated by the servo to over come a resisting deflection force. However, the total amount of force generated by the servo motor and gears for a GIVEN geometric set up will be the same regardless of how many degrees of rotation of the output gear turns, it just may not be enough to allow the surface to move. If you have 100 oz-in servo it's always going to be delivering 100 oz-in of force through its entire deflection. All deflections have alteration in mechanical advantage due to the changing alignments of the servo arm and control surface horn. Example:A horizontal arm that travels in an arc loses mechanical advantage as it leaves it 90 degree center. It's mechanical advantage is least where you need it the most which is at the extremes of surface deflections. The more a Servo moves past its 90° position the worst mechanical advantage is going to be because it has now moved in two different planes of motion. The idea is to find The Sweet Spot within the range of what your Servo is capable of generating as a force and not to take away to much from that max by having a bad geometry that too greatly reduces deflection work,
The strongest setup with the greatest mechanical advantage is to have all your servo arms at 90° to the control horns and never move them LMAO.
The effectiveness of the servo is relating to the net of force required to move the surface under load. IN other words, 1 lb of force required to deflect, will require 2lbs if geometry is wrong. I understand servo power is same... HOld the surface with bad and good geometry and you will feel the difference very easily. I hope it clarifies
@@MichaelWargoWe agree. I think a little more emphasis on Linkage geometry will clarify what you're trying to communicate.The seesaw example is not doing it, if you stand arm extended, try to rotate your head that's the output gear, try to push something with hand elbow or shoulder. These are the servos you bought for whatever reason, so, good geometry allows you to get the most out of it. In your discussion about travel versus dual rates I understood it very well, but if a newbie might find it a little hard to follow. Perhaps a simpler explantion might br Travel volume gives you the maximum possible movement and dual rates gives you options to cut back on that movement depending upon how many options you want and how many switches you got. You know in your last sentence to me you say you hope it clarifies things thanks for the help, but I thought I was helping you. Perhaps it is my fault I should have been more clear.
That was a great video I learned a lot as I'm new to this
Thank you for doing this video
Great video. Thanks.
Thank you for the good advice ❤
Thanks for clarifying about full throw and full range… just got my first 3D foamy and same thing.. came with these MASSIVE servo horn extenders which were getting me full throw at around 30-40%. My thought was they wanted it to be quickest response, but I often wondered about the granularity of the servo at that level. So weird that they tell you to do it essentially the wrong way…
Another great video, I can't even begin to explain how much these videos have helped my flying, can you do a video on edf jets landing speeds, and properly setting the cg? It would greatly be appreciated, keep up the great work
Type wargo edf and I did a video on that. Not the CG part, but same as others.
I am your new subscriber ❤
Confusing even with clarification 😅
So do I set up my jets the same way with going to max and increasing the end point on the radio to as far as it can go? Or is this for my 3D planes type of set up?
Not as far as radio can go, physical limits on surface. Sometimes physical limits on jets can be too much depending on the jet. Dial it back if that is the case. Do it mechanically though. If you shorten the servo arm, you increase accuracy, torque and resolution rather than simply lowering the rate. Understand? Get all you can unless detrimental in some way. Most of the time, go to physical limits.
@@MichaelWargo Gotchya. I’ll be setting up my boomerang sprint v1 and T-One Models Fortune mini. Want to make sure I do it right. I know on the mini, I can usually get book high rates right before the ball link touches the actual surface where the servo mounts. Which I need book highs on elevator, and around 3-4mm less travel on ailerons than book highs. And same with my sprint. It needs ailerons cut way down other wise it’s way too sensitive
Hi Michael. Sorry to hijack the chat from @wickedmoto.
Informative video by tons. However, I do hv some questions.
Firstly, for jets wen u mean adjust the physical limits mechanically, how much is enough? E.g I have a T1 2.2m, the low rates calm for 25mm up n down on Elevator. Of course my End Points/ATV should be more than this.
So, wen I electronically set my radio, I get about 88 for up elevator and about 76 for down elevator and this is translating to about 35mm for up and down elevator. I am unable to change servo hole locations On both the surfaces as they do not offer adjustments.
Secondly, when setting up dual/triple rates for jets, if the manufacturers do not offer a high and medium rate, how many percent increments between the medium and high and from low to medium would be a good ball park figure?
Thanks in advance Michael.
Is this applicable to non-3D planes like sport flyers and warbirds?
Yes. Absolutely
Thanks.
This is confusing as hell. So its not the servos actual travel distance being changed. It's the angle of the control surface compared to stick travel. So why not set servo travel to 140%, and adjust the servo linkage to achieve the desired angle at that percentage of stick travel?
I am not actually sure what you are asking. It is very simple. To get the surface to reach max, we have no idea how far the servo will need to travel. SO... adjust the travel number until it stops. we never know exactly the number. What ever number it ends up is 100% travel of the surface. Make sense?
@@MichaelWargo Sorry, I'm very new to the hobby and eager to learn. The travel adjustment on the radio should go to 150% right? I'm using an ix12, and tried this but the radio travel stopped at like 130% one direction the wouldn't go past 100 in the other direction. Maybe I was doing something wrong.🤔 Will give it another try. Thank you for your help.
You are not getting the concept of the travel. The travel on the radio doesn’t mean anything it’s an arbitrary number to get the physical limitations established if you set the travel to a point where the travel goes to 150 but the surface stops moving at 120, you have to set it to where the surface stops moving and that will be what is reflected in 100% rates so back off the travel until the surface stops moving and in the case that it might be 123 or 133 or any random number, stop there and then it is that correctly
Why did they set it up that way?
Horizon is more concerned about how their products fly off the shelves than how they fly in the air.
Everything seems to be a price-point for them, it doesn't appear to me that they have any legitimate passion for the hobby anymore.
I certainly understand why you feel that way...
You should be explaining mechanical advantage without all the gobbledygook. This is a very confusing video. Simply stated, the closer to center on the servo, the more mechanical advantage the servo has. It let's the servo work less hard for the same amount of load it is moving. Long servo arms are fine for light loads, but make the servo work harder . Placing the linkage on the outside hole of the horn on the control surface, gives the most mechanical advantage for moving that surface. So in a perfect world, you would want to have the control horn linkage on the outside hole, and the servo linkage on the inside hole to put the least amount of load on the servo. Of course this is not always possible, so you need some compromise to meet the limitations of the radio adjustments.
????