Brad’s argument in a nutshell: “when Andrea Yates killed her kids because she heard god tell her to it’s because she was “crazy” but also justified because god said to do it. When Abraham heard god tell him these exact same things it’s NOT crazy because Brad says so.”
No it's even worse, it's only justified when god ACTUALLY tells the person to do it. Which of course leads to the obvious question of, "How do you know the difference between wrongly thinking you are talking to god and actually talking to god?" You can't.
@@technomancermagus8357yeah, I have never gotten a straight answer on how to confirm the source/validity of divine revelations, and that's the foundation of their entire belief system.... It's like making tea leaf reading into your worldview for everything
Brad calls in to whine, not that Armin misrepresented the story, but that when he gave his opinion about the story, he didn't also state the contrary opinion. Funnily enough, Brad ALSO didn't give the contrary opinion to HIS opinion that he called in to whine about, proving once again that the only thing theists are consistent about is their hypocrisy.
I love Armin, and today he displayed heart and reason beyond "belief" haha. Wow, Armin is my new favorite in the playground of this mindset. How he teaches us from the side of Islam is new to me, and the way he weaves these thoughts into the Christian ethos is amazing. Keep on Rockin Armin!!! Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
My wife said sending your thoughts and prayers is doing nothing while pretending to do something. If she ever said she was sending her thoughts and prayers what she actually meant was a middle finger
Brad? If you’re reading this; the only thing that the Abraham/Issac story taught me is that only a lunatic would see this story as anything other than horrific
And there is the story of Jephthah from Judges 11: 29-40 The man promised to sacrifice the first thing that greeted him in his home: His daughter. The very involved God of the old testament did nothing to stop him.
And talking to him another half hour after he admitted he's defending a belief he doesn't even hold. Would rather hear real Christians defend their faith.
Brad isn’t stupid. He’s worse. He’s a zealot. His kind can be convinced to do ANYTHING in the name of their imaginary sky daddy. And do it with a smile on their faces.
@@reefhog, oh, he's absolutely lying. He's using that tired, dishonest tactic of claiming he isn't religious to try to enhance his arguments as being unbiased. He also tries numerous times to use anecdotal, sweeping strawman claims that were immediately shut down by both hosts. No non-religious person would try to justify most Bible stories.
I used to think Abraham was an impotent paranoid schizophrenic who was upset by having to drop his pants in Ishtar's temples... But he probably was an accumulation of the stories of the illiterate tribes scattered when Akkaid the Babylonian emperor scattered the semitic nomads
@@bradsmith1295 So everything that the hosts said about the story is right, that it's about unthinking obedience and 'full submission'.... so no strawman at all, in fact an accurate steelman. sure it can be seen as beautiful, but when someone who lacks indoctrination sees this blind compliance with authority as deeply immoral and to be opposed please do the respectful thing and listen to their arguments rather than lie and call an accurate portrayal a 'strawman'.
@@bradsmith1295how you can spin that killing your child as “ beautiful” is one of the most disturbing thing I’ve ever read. Hoping you don’t have children.
Damn it, that’s what I was going to say so I always scroll to make sure no one else said it first. Yup, my Christian pastor father says the same thing, “you don’t get sent to hell, you choose hell.”
@@SingleDigitDriven lol After I inadvertently revealed my atheism, my perplexed fundamentalist pastor father informed me that he thought god would save me still. It simply wouldn't be prudent for me to press him to justify it, theologically, but I'm fairly certain that he doesn't harbor the belief that, "Once saved, always saved."
@@xmillion1704 yup I’m in the same boat. My dad is not a “once saved, always saved” guy. He can’t understand why I’m “choosing” to spend eternity in hell. I’m under no delusion that explaining it to him for the 37th time is gonna help.
Well, no one has ever mistaken me for someone who is capable of never holding a righteous grudge against a select few others' for their egregious violations of my person and/or family. I'm just not willing to divulge the names of those whom I wouldn't mind paying the price for my sins. (I'm only human after all. [shrug]) 🤪😬🙃🤣
Lots of embedded moral judgements for a person concerned about Christians being unfairly strawmanned by "atheists". Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
Devon, you could have done a 2 second Google search to find that, “Utilitarianism is a theory of morality that advocates actions that foster happiness or pleasure and oppose actions that cause unhappiness or harm. When directed toward making social, economic, or political decisions, a utilitarian philosophy would aim for the betterment of society as a whole.”
@@mirandarensberger6919 you are probably correct. And I'm sure Devon would say "well it says don't steal or kill" and probably doesn't understand what the term most means, just like he doesn't know half of the other terms he uses.
@@mirandarensberger6919 Given that there are three difference versions of the 10 Commandments You can find then at Exodus 20:2-17, Deuteronomy 5:6-21, and the "Ritual Decalogue" of Exodus 34:11-26. One can say that Devon has not read his bible🤣
When you teach ethics and morals to children, you won't get a consistent compliance from them unless they have an understanding of the reasons why the good behavior, the kind behavior is important to them as well as others. Just telling them they will be punished will not work because they quickly learn that if not caught at it, no punishment will ensue, only if they get caught and they don't understand the impact of what their behavior has on society if they misbehave that affects them in the long run. Give them the feeling of how doing the right make them feel good about themselves and show them the benefits of being kind to others. Praise and recognize the good behavior more than condemning the bad. All children seek approval and will always prefer it to being condemned and punished.
I feel so bad for atheistic humanist men that get their periods. I'm glad that atheist humanist radical leftists are fighting for sanitation Atkins to be put in the men's bathroom=
@@queuecee Quecee is it true that you believe that a man can get his period. I don't want to put words in your mouth so if I'm wrong and you don't believe a man could get his period just respond and say no that's ridiculous of course a man can't get his period.
There once was a Richard Levine Who had delusions of being divine His bluster was totally despotic To hide his urges homo erotic Making his posts one continuous whine.
Also, Christians are highly over represented in prisons for violent crimes compared to the general population in America. Atheists are highly underrepresented in prisons, especially for violent crimes, of course also compared to the general population.
@@botarakutabi1199That’s not really fair. Saying you’re a Christian and acting like one, without actually being one, comes with massive privileges in prison. They get more freedoms, better peer relations, and more sympathy from parole boards. If I ever get incarcerated, you bet your ass I’m finding my religion while I’m there and spontaneously losing it as soon as I’m out.
@@botarakutabi1199 That could be because we know that atheists are smarter and have higher IQ. So it could be that they commit crime at the same rate, but they are less likely to get caught. A theist who commits insurance fraud for chiropractic services might have a higher chance of getting caught and being sent to prison. Hypothetically.
@@Leith_Crowther I've seen stats that considered "jailhouse conversions", even with that, Christians are still way over represented for violent crimes in America. I wonder why religions receive privileges in prison. Why would violent criminals create communities based on religions? There aren't really atheist prison gangs, but lots of Christian ones. Doesn't that shine an even worse light on religion, that it can be the basis for prison gangs? That they'll violently abuse you if you don't join their club? I just read about how prison gang leaders use their right to church services to give marching orders to their gang all at once. To get around members typically being in different blocks.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Side note : 2 day I saw black swans are rasing cygnets in the vacant block across the road. First time I've seen then in the wild in QLD. Called the council to let them know and they came out and put warning signs up, telling people not to let their dogs near the block.
@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 had a Kelpie that loved to swim across the turkey nest, but always had to check where the pair of swans (with cygnet) were, first... The big wuss was terrified of them! ... as opposed to the cat, who thought the "chicken" looked delicious. It took DAYS to recover. Then he went back for a second go. 🤦🤣🤣🤣
QC.. I'm reposting about this reply to you about Brad here because I expect he will delete the rest of his posts here very soon. Regarding having Brad on your weekly live stream, It will the same waste of time that the FloBloJokeBoi was, and you will get the same dishonest misrepresentations after the the event. Brad has clearly shown himself to be the same kind of dishonest hypocrite as the rest of them. He only wants to preach, lecture atheists, and then resort to dishonest tactics when questions are asked.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Since we've heard him on the show, we know what to expect from him. So we can be prepared for his tactics. If we are going to accept only those who are willing to have a good-faith discussion, we'll be waiting a long time.
Armin, you may not be a God but if there is one, you got to be Him. Ha ha. But you deserve everything, good that is.. your turning from a robot to a human was so inspiring and heartfelt... keep up the good work! We (the good people of the world) love you! And you, cross examiner, u 2...
@@eddieray I think he was saying "I have been DNA tested and confirmed as a being that lives under a bridge and charges a toll to cross (aka a fairy tale troll). he was being cynical, not admitting he was trying to be argumentative😮
The dumbest reason to got to hell: i spent 18 years in the mormon church, a few years in Eastern religions, thirty years in christianity, and got too old and too smart to fall for another cult.
That was a frightening statement by Brad: I don't think democracy is the best system..." What the hell system of government does he think is? I have an inkling what he might suggest, and it scares the life out of me. I'm confused about something. Why do so many people seem to honestly believe it's the job of the schools to teach morals? That's the job of the parents and families. Schools are tasked with teaching critical thinking and ethics, period. They are not supposed to turn their students into moral, decent people. Too many people in this country seem to want to foist the responsibility upon the schools.
I disagree with you heavily. Children need an outside source for morals outside of their parents. What if their parents are KKK? N**is? Homophobes? What if they have mental issues, some bigoted belief or are genuinely dangerous people? Children need an outside source for stability so that the next generation of Westboro isn't made.
Hmm Any given culture's societal mores are so intrinsically woven into its very fabric, that it seems to me virtually inescapable that every facet of our daily lives becomes instrumental towards our moral instruction. Parent(s)/guardian(s), however, represent the sole provenance of religious instruction.
Holy crap Devon, natural disasters aren't caused by supernatural forces, we actually understand how these things happen, and the one thing they all have in common, naturalistic explanations and no causation between "people being bad" and natural disasters.
Unholy gender crap did you know that atheists are always making claims to the supernatural like the idea of the origins of Life coming into existence without creation, without God.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 you believe in magic you believe people can pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence. You believe in magical brains that can change people's gender.. And you refuse to denounce little boys getting metzitzah jobs.
@@AXKfUN9m don't be silly it's not straw Manning when I point out the fact some atheists believe in the supernatural aka the idea of the origins of Life came into existence without God. Atheists have a lot of faith based beliefs in the supernatural like the idea that somebody can have a brain that doesn't match their body.they believe that on faith so strongly that they mutilate themselves and their children You probably have that same faith-based belief, I know how we can settle it, supply a rational definition for the word female.
On the call with Brad, looking at the past as though it was so great is a special type of stupid. We just have better information to realize the problems we actually have now.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 He would have to actually read the Bible. He still hasn't confirmed that he is against pedo aka believing that Jesus died for his sins.
Brad, the argument non understander has called in to chat… Armin was literally saying that basing morality on what god says is the problem because he *could* say ANYTHING IS MORAL because god says it is. A god could just say “ok, now it’s Opposite Day” and you just have to go with it *because* he says so. You’re doing no work to decide for yourself, and that’s the problem.
29:48 That's actually an interesting discussion : When Armin says : "it looks at the outcomes in order to maximize well-being" The follow-up question then becomes : why do you care about (individual) well-being ? In a sense, utilitarianism seeks to maximize some utility, but there is somewhere a prior valuing of what the utility is. So it can be compassionate if what you value is well-being ( compassion being important there) , but it could also be misaligned. Ultimately, I think there's an interplay between a reason based deontology and utilitarianism, both informing each other and building as complex layers upon one another.
Good luck getting teachers of different beliefs to answer questions from students on these and i am a solid NO on this topic. No religeon should be any where near government national or local.
The founding fathers built in the separation of religion from government was because they saw the bloody results of differing opinions on biblical interpretation. Good luck to the government and teachers to try and figure out what the bible says.
I'm tired of Democrats not only pushing gender faith but they also push Jewish Talmud law when it comes to abortion pushing abortion all the way up to birth when it's a violation of the constitutional right to life. I don't know what one Democrat politician that doesn't support the Jewish Town medical over the constitution
Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
Why don't you quote the talmud instead of quoting the bible out of context The talmud teaches that its followers are human beings but people who are not members of their tribe are not human beings but animals on Earth in human form with no other purpose but to serve the tribe.
@@HumanistsAreEvil your whataboutism is dismissed. IMHO all the religions I've been introduced to have issues. The Abrahamic ones are cancerous and violent. ... Having said all that, The #1 INTERNAL THREAT to the U.S. IS the Christian Talibangelicals. Now, if you don't like the verses, ignore them the way that 40,000 Denominations of Christianity do.
@@HumanistsAreEvil only the men, who aren't enslaved, and haven't touched pork, or shellfish, and have the right haircut.... yeah.... context is what'll fix that.... HA!
I'm by no means trying to defend the 10 commandments, but the 6th commandment (the kill one) uses Strong's word 7523 which corresponds with the BDB definitions of murder and murderer (that is the act of killing someone illegally). If you want to make the point you were trying to make, go to Numbers 31:17 which uses Strong's word 2026, corresponding with the BDB definitions of kill and slay, and ask why the baby boys had to be killed along with their parents and non-virgin sisters. Edit: ABSOLUTELY love how Armin brought that back to utilitarianism!
Dumbest reason to be sent to hell: *_Blaspheming the WIND¹_* (the only unforgivable sin). ¹ The Hebrew and Greek words translated as "(Holy) Spirit", both mean "wind" (and also "breath", in the Greek).
Dumbest Reason for losing your job in atheistic humanist New York..... Not agreeing that atheists humanists Rachel Levine is a beautiful intelligent same woman.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 So, if I "break wind" while praying . . . wait . . . Agh! Holy halitosis! I feel like I'm so close to grasping it! Just give me a little more time, I pray. What does any of this have to do with mustard seeds?
I love that Brad perfectly articulated just how horrifying the story of Abraham and Issac is, he just said it's good in the end. We would have told it the exact same way. Abraham put ilhis trust in god and that's why it's horrifying lol. He just slapped an "it's good" on the end to one of the most horrifying experiences a parent could ever imagine. Because Abraham was prepared to go through with it. He was convinced he had to do it. The psychological torture ALONE is insane.
Not to be contrary, but I can only imagine that it was pretty horrifying experience for Isaac. I mean, what measures does one take at that point to protect one's self against the possibility that at any point, day or night, god may tell your Dad, "Aww Fuck it! Just go and kill him now!"?
1:40:18 Brad "I don't think democracy is the greatest system..." That statement has to be the biggest red flag about any person and their ideological stances.
Yeah...I didn't have time to dive into that, but....wow. It is something a lot of conservatives have started saying over the last few years. usually it takes the form of "Actually, we are a republic...not a democracy." As soon as they go there, you know they are fascist assholes.
Yeah, that stunk. It's was a great point of saying we could make the 10 commandments better and gave an example. Devon knew he had absolutely no rebuttal, so he strawmanned utilitarianism. Theists seem to have a filibuster tactic with every debate
Wow, Brad seems to have forgotten the Spanish Inquisition and all the other religious wars and skirmishes... yes, society should be more religious... just look at how this worked in the past
@@bradsmith1295Except how would you possibly know that?.No, you've been told this and you were taught to accept it without thinking too much about it.
@@bradsmith1295 I'm certainly not capable of putting myself in the position of a person who believes immoral nonsense without a shred of good verifiable evidence. How could I be?
@@bradsmith1295 Why are you engaging on these points but ignoring the question I asked in the other thread? _"Murder is when you kill an innocent person"_ Care to define "innocent"? Do the children of the French villagers executed by Adolf's soldiers because the villagers would not give up the French resistance fighters fall into that category?
A good person will do good things, and a bad person will do bad things, but it takes religion to make a good person do bad things. - attribution uncertain
The status of the lemon test is complicated and even the details of the lemon test have varied a bit (for example sometimes O'Connor's endorsement test would get pushed into an application of the Lemon Test) and the repudiation of the lemon test isn't absolute, it was more "hey we aren't going to apply these three standards together though they might individually apply when we feel like it." The argument that the lemon test has been tossed out the window enough (in flag cases and such) that it could be ignored as a matter of course regardless of its status made me punch the wall.
Brad, yes some atheists may say religion is good, there are plenty of theists who think humanism is good. Your claim doesn't really support what you think it supports.
@@queuecee I've been vegetarian for years, and I don't eat "meat substitutes" unless it's literally the only thing available, because, yeah, they're gross.
@@bradsmith1295 What does Christianity having some good things in it have anything to do with the existence of god, which is what atheism is. Maybe you aren't giving atheism a fair shake and unfairly maligning atheists.
@@bradsmith1295there is nothing in Christianity that can't be found without it. Now if Christians would stop trying to force their religion into every facet of other peoples lives. Most of us wouldn't give a toss about their daffy beliefs.
Brad started the call by accusing them of making a strawman argument and then later on he says that if they're pro-choice, they're okay with killing children. Nice strawman, Brad.
The belief in God predates the Bible and every civilization we have ever come across came to the same conclusion of a Creator not only predating the Bible but despite not having contact with each other Do you believe the origins of Life came into existence without creation, without God if so please provide evidence to why you believe that and if I'm not convinced in return I will provide evidence to why I believe in God so we can see which one is more logical If you don't believe the origins of Life came into existence without God just respond by telling me we found commonality and that would be the fact neither one of us believes the origins of Life came into existence without God.
@@HumanistsAreEvilfewer people believe in god less now than ever and we know more about the world and the universe than we ever have. Every time a person thought something was caused by god, we found out it wasn’t when we figured it out. I don’t believe your premise. People came up with god. They didn’t come with it.
@@HumanistsAreEvilI don't even think that a god or deity is even possible. Please get me that far before you start claiming any supposed capabilities of any gods or deities.
@@HumanistsAreEvil Additionally, you're not allowed to proclaim that a fictional character is responsible for the origins of life until you can first prove that the character isn't fictional. Until then, it's just a fictional character.
@@Wiggimus You don't believe a God is even possible okay that's fine now provide the evidence to why you believe that. You could do that by providing proof to the supernatural aka the idea of the origins of Life can come into existence without creation, without God.. or maybe you believe life always existed . So which one is it do you believe life popped into existence because of a intelligent occurrence or do you believe it always existed . If I not convinced by your argument in return I will provide an argument to why I believe in God so we can see which one is more logical. PS if you provide a lazy argument like well I never seen God I'm going to give you a lazy argument in return and argue that I never seen life pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence.
Yes Devon we need the 10 commandments in schools to teach kids not to kill because they didn't know it was wrong. We also need to tell 10 year olds not to cheat on their wives or worship other gods
![BabyChiefDoit - Too Slow (feat. STAR BANDZ) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zayaxws7RPg/mqdefault.jpg)
Armin, you are quickly becoming one of my very favorite hosts!
i really like him but he far too good looking for my liking...nor he seems a great guy
@@Pmrace1960Why?
@@Kulascus jealousy
@@Pmrace1960 What jelousy? yours of his? i think I get your joke but Im not sure
@@Kulascus if you have to explain a joke then somethings gone wrong somewhere
Brad’s argument in a nutshell: “when Andrea Yates killed her kids because she heard god tell her to it’s because she was “crazy” but also justified because god said to do it. When Abraham heard god tell him these exact same things it’s NOT crazy because Brad says so.”
No it's even worse, it's only justified when god ACTUALLY tells the person to do it. Which of course leads to the obvious question of, "How do you know the difference between wrongly thinking you are talking to god and actually talking to god?" You can't.
@@technomancermagus8357yeah, I have never gotten a straight answer on how to confirm the source/validity of divine revelations, and that's the foundation of their entire belief system.... It's like making tea leaf reading into your worldview for everything
brad needs to learn the difference between "strawman" and "disagreement"
He just thinks the only way a theist could lose is if atheists cheated
Brad calls in to whine, not that Armin misrepresented the story, but that when he gave his opinion about the story, he didn't also state the contrary opinion. Funnily enough, Brad ALSO didn't give the contrary opinion to HIS opinion that he called in to whine about, proving once again that the only thing theists are consistent about is their hypocrisy.
Dumbest reason to be sent to hell: I picked up a box of popsicles on the sabbath, forgetting that they contain sticks.
I love Armin, and today he displayed heart and reason beyond "belief" haha. Wow, Armin is my new favorite in the playground of this mindset. How he teaches us from the side of Islam is new to me, and the way he weaves these thoughts into the Christian ethos is amazing. Keep on Rockin Armin!!! Gr8! Peace ☮💜Love
The dumbest reason to go to hell: being born.
Being conceived, even!
Devon: “nothing is better than love thy neighbor”
Also Devon: proceeds to say he would pray for his neighbor, rather than actually helping them
Devon, god wants us to pray for crazy people, which means do nothing
My wife said sending your thoughts and prayers is doing nothing while pretending to do something. If she ever said she was sending her thoughts and prayers what she actually meant was a middle finger
Brad? If you’re reading this; the only thing that the Abraham/Issac story taught me is that only a lunatic would see this story as anything other than horrific
And there is the story of Jephthah from Judges 11: 29-40
The man promised to sacrifice the first thing that greeted him in his home: His daughter. The very involved God of the old testament did nothing to stop him.
Why are they letting Brad act as if he is in control of the show?... lol
And talking to him another half hour after he admitted he's defending a belief he doesn't even hold. Would rather hear real Christians defend their faith.
@@botarakutabi1199Probably lacking for callers
Really. I would've been like, "This isn't your show, bub" the second he started dictating terms like he was in charge. XD
Armin kills it with divine command theory
Cross Examiner, thank you for contradicting Devon's logic of "pray for the crazy people" rather than getting them actual help.
Thank you for watching!
You should have left the second quotation mark for the end of your comment. It looks like you mean Armin didn't help him.
Love these two hosts together
Thanks so much!
What an amazing episode!! I love the dynamics between the cross examiner and Armin!
Thank you so much!
@@thecrossexaminer6665 can’t wait to see you with Johnny p angel this week!
Brad was actually worse than Devon.........Devon was admittedly a troll and Brad was just stupid.
👍
Brad isn’t stupid. He’s worse. He’s a zealot. His kind can be convinced to do ANYTHING in the name of their imaginary sky daddy. And do it with a smile on their faces.
I’m convinced he’s also a liar. Who would make the silly arguments he made, if they weren’t religious ?
@@reefhog, oh, he's absolutely lying. He's using that tired, dishonest tactic of claiming he isn't religious to try to enhance his arguments as being unbiased. He also tries numerous times to use anecdotal, sweeping strawman claims that were immediately shut down by both hosts. No non-religious person would try to justify most Bible stories.
Brad, the story in the Bible is Abraham hearing voices in his head.
Yes, it presupposes the existence of a God (duh).
The book is true because it's in the book you see...
I used to think Abraham was an impotent paranoid schizophrenic who was upset by having to drop his pants in Ishtar's temples... But he probably was an accumulation of the stories of the illiterate tribes scattered when Akkaid the Babylonian emperor scattered the semitic nomads
Brad, here's the thing with your Abraham and Isaac story, the only moral response to the demand to sacrifice your child is to say no.
Agreed.
@@bradsmith1295”beautiful”; is that how you’d describe what Andrea Yates did? She too was “submitting to her higher power”.
@@bradsmith1295 So everything that the hosts said about the story is right, that it's about unthinking obedience and 'full submission'.... so no strawman at all, in fact an accurate steelman. sure it can be seen as beautiful, but when someone who lacks indoctrination sees this blind compliance with authority as deeply immoral and to be opposed please do the respectful thing and listen to their arguments rather than lie and call an accurate portrayal a 'strawman'.
@@bradsmith1295how you can spin that killing your child as “ beautiful” is one of the most disturbing thing I’ve ever read. Hoping you don’t have children.
Dumbest reason for being sent to Hell: Forgetting to sacrifice a goat after wearing a poly/cotton t-shirt.
The dumbest reason for being sent to hell, according to my Christian family, is that, “I’m choosing to go to hell.”
Damn it, that’s what I was going to say so I always scroll to make sure no one else said it first. Yup, my Christian pastor father says the same thing, “you don’t get sent to hell, you choose hell.”
I don’t choose it, therefore I’m not going. Checkmate God!
@@tonyclements1147 🤣🤣 yup! Me too!
@@SingleDigitDriven lol After I inadvertently revealed my atheism, my perplexed fundamentalist pastor father informed me that he thought god would save me still. It simply wouldn't be prudent for me to press him to justify it, theologically, but I'm fairly certain that he doesn't harbor the belief that, "Once saved, always saved."
@@xmillion1704 yup I’m in the same boat. My dad is not a “once saved, always saved” guy. He can’t understand why I’m “choosing” to spend eternity in hell. I’m under no delusion that explaining it to him for the 37th time is gonna help.
The dumbest reason for being sent to hell is because, I cannot accept that someone else should be crucified for my "sins".
Yep. Christianity is the house where you leave logic, reasoning and morality at the front door.
Well, no one has ever mistaken me for someone who is capable of never holding a righteous grudge against a select few others' for their egregious violations of my person and/or family. I'm just not willing to divulge the names of those whom I wouldn't mind paying the price for my sins. (I'm only human after all. [shrug]) 🤪😬🙃🤣
The dumbest reason for being sent to hell is displaying a graven image of the Ten Commandments in classrooms.
Catch-22
Excellent answer!
Brad is real cocky for being so simple.
Lots of embedded moral judgements for a person concerned about Christians being unfairly strawmanned by "atheists".
Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
Agreed...and he's not sold on democracy either, i wonder if he traded in his country for a red hat.
Brad: don’t straw man Christians. Also Brad: straw mans atheists several times
Brad is a typical hypocritical christian.
What amazing hosts! This was one of the best shows in a long time.
Devon, you could have done a 2 second Google search to find that, “Utilitarianism is a theory of morality that advocates actions that foster happiness or pleasure and oppose actions that cause unhappiness or harm. When directed toward making social, economic, or political decisions, a utilitarian philosophy would aim for the betterment of society as a whole.”
Armin please continue with your great atheist comments, I love to hear you!! You put a big sparkle in the show 🥳!! Love itt
One of the best shows guys. That Brad section is one of the best how each argument was shot down even with a very dishonest non-Christian.
Most of the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with morality Devon.
I doubt if he's actually read them.
@@mirandarensberger6919 you are probably correct.
And I'm sure Devon would say "well it says don't steal or kill" and probably doesn't understand what the term most means, just like he doesn't know half of the other terms he uses.
@@ReiperX Only four of the commandments are illegal, at least in most countries. At least in the US, for now. We'll see after this year's election.
“Take the Bible to a War Zone.” The English and German soldiers had the same Bible in the trenches. And yet there was a lot of killing.
@@mirandarensberger6919 Given that there are three difference versions of the 10 Commandments
You can find then at Exodus 20:2-17, Deuteronomy 5:6-21, and the "Ritual Decalogue" of Exodus 34:11-26.
One can say that Devon has not read his bible🤣
When you teach ethics and morals to children, you won't get a consistent compliance from them unless they have an understanding of the reasons why the good behavior, the kind behavior is important to them as well as others. Just telling them they will be punished will not work because they quickly learn that if not caught at it, no punishment will ensue, only if they get caught and they don't understand the impact of what their behavior has on society if they misbehave that affects them in the long run. Give them the feeling of how doing the right make them feel good about themselves and show them the benefits of being kind to others. Praise and recognize the good behavior more than condemning the bad. All children seek approval and will always prefer it to being condemned and punished.
Dumbest reason to be sent to hell: I neglected to sacrifice two doves after my last period.
Four on the heavy days.
I feel so bad for atheistic humanist men that get their periods. I'm glad that atheist humanist radical leftists are fighting for sanitation Atkins to be put in the men's bathroom=
@@queuecee
Quecee is it true that you believe that a man can get his period.
I don't want to put words in your mouth so if I'm wrong and you don't believe a man could get his period just respond and say no that's ridiculous of course a man can't get his period.
@@queuecee 🩸🩸🩸🕊🕊🕊🕊
There once was a Richard Levine
Who had delusions of being divine
His bluster was totally despotic
To hide his urges homo erotic
Making his posts one continuous whine.
The dumbest reason to be sent to hell?
Because our ultimate grandparents learnt the difference between right and wrong.
Sheesh! Well, when you put it that way, plainly, it DOES seem rather ridiculous, right?
If Brad reads comments; There is more crime in heavily religious countries than in secular countries.
He replied to a few of mine.
Also, Christians are highly over represented in prisons for violent crimes compared to the general population in America. Atheists are highly underrepresented in prisons, especially for violent crimes, of course also compared to the general population.
@@botarakutabi1199That’s not really fair. Saying you’re a Christian and acting like one, without actually being one, comes with massive privileges in prison. They get more freedoms, better peer relations, and more sympathy from parole boards. If I ever get incarcerated, you bet your ass I’m finding my religion while I’m there and spontaneously losing it as soon as I’m out.
@@botarakutabi1199 That could be because we know that atheists are smarter and have higher IQ. So it could be that they commit crime at the same rate, but they are less likely to get caught.
A theist who commits insurance fraud for chiropractic services might have a higher chance of getting caught and being sent to prison. Hypothetically.
@@Leith_Crowther I've seen stats that considered "jailhouse conversions", even with that, Christians are still way over represented for violent crimes in America.
I wonder why religions receive privileges in prison. Why would violent criminals create communities based on religions? There aren't really atheist prison gangs, but lots of Christian ones. Doesn't that shine an even worse light on religion, that it can be the basis for prison gangs? That they'll violently abuse you if you don't join their club?
I just read about how prison gang leaders use their right to church services to give marching orders to their gang all at once. To get around members typically being in different blocks.
The dumbest reason for being sent to hell is, eating a young goat boiled in its mother's milk.
Come on, Ook! You know it's gonna be those rubber jocks under your cotton Stubbies that will get you fried! 😇
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Side note : 2 day I saw black swans are rasing cygnets in the vacant block across the road.
First time I've seen then in the wild in QLD.
Called the council to let them know and they came out and put warning signs up, telling people not to let their dogs near the block.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 And I wear cotton G-strings most times, the rubber ones are for special occasions😁
@@ookekklibarianbornagain6708 had a Kelpie that loved to swim across the turkey nest, but always had to check where the pair of swans (with cygnet) were, first... The big wuss was terrified of them!
... as opposed to the cat, who thought the "chicken" looked delicious. It took DAYS to recover. Then he went back for a second go. 🤦🤣🤣🤣
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 I'm still looking for cats to replace my two Bengal, looked at rescue orgs but no luck so far.
The dumbest reason to be sent to hell: Paving a road with good intentions. 🙀
Ah yes... the compounded sin of downtrodden intentions!
QC.. I'm reposting about this reply to you about Brad here because I expect he will delete the rest of his posts here very soon.
Regarding having Brad on your weekly live stream, It will the same waste of time that the FloBloJokeBoi was, and you will get the same dishonest misrepresentations after the the event. Brad has clearly shown himself to be the same kind of dishonest hypocrite as the rest of them. He only wants to preach, lecture atheists, and then resort to dishonest tactics when questions are asked.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Since we've heard him on the show, we know what to expect from him. So we can be prepared for his tactics.
If we are going to accept only those who are willing to have a good-faith discussion, we'll be waiting a long time.
@@queuecee There are none that are willing to engage in good faith, which is my point. It's a waste of time and effort.
Dumbest reason to be sent to hell is it's punishment for my karaoke version of "Knocking on Heaven's Door"
Aye, Aye, Yah Yah Yah.
Armin, you may not be a God but if there is one, you got to be Him. Ha ha. But you deserve everything, good that is.. your turning from a robot to a human was so inspiring and heartfelt... keep up the good work! We (the good people of the world) love you! And you, cross examiner, u 2...
Sensational show as always AXP ❤❤❤
Keep up the great work 💪
Peace Love Empathy From Australia ☝️🤠✌️
Devon was too stupid to argue with. his call really was a waste of time.
He admitted he was just trolling 😂
@@eddierayThen he really was too stupid to argue with. Trolls are even worse true believers. At least true believers are honest about that.
@@duskyrose9243I don’t think he was trolling. Them calling him a troll gave him the ability to save face after such a disaster of a call.
@@eddieray I think he was saying "I have been DNA tested and confirmed as a being that lives under a bridge and charges a toll to cross (aka a fairy tale troll). he was being cynical, not admitting he was trying to be argumentative😮
Armin Navabi thank you for your enlightening rant...its refreshing and i too belive these things you do.
Thank you, Armin, for defining the system I've been using. I did not know I was a follower of Utilitarianism.
Defending the indefensible is a dangerous art Brad.
The dumbest reason to got to hell: i spent 18 years in the mormon church, a few years in Eastern religions, thirty years in christianity, and got too old and too smart to fall for another cult.
That was a frightening statement by Brad: I don't think democracy is the best system..." What the hell system of government does he think is? I have an inkling what he might suggest, and it scares the life out of me. I'm confused about something. Why do so many people seem to honestly believe it's the job of the schools to teach morals? That's the job of the parents and families. Schools are tasked with teaching critical thinking and ethics, period. They are not supposed to turn their students into moral, decent people. Too many people in this country seem to want to foist the responsibility upon the schools.
They want you to be a good, Christian soldier.
You're right....very well said. The burden belongs to the parents, not the public school system.
@@grumpyoldman6503you misspelt robot. 😆😆😆😆
I disagree with you heavily. Children need an outside source for morals outside of their parents. What if their parents are KKK? N**is? Homophobes? What if they have mental issues, some bigoted belief or are genuinely dangerous people? Children need an outside source for stability so that the next generation of Westboro isn't made.
Hmm Any given culture's societal mores are so intrinsically woven into its very fabric, that it seems to me virtually inescapable that every facet of our daily lives becomes instrumental towards our moral instruction.
Parent(s)/guardian(s), however, represent the sole provenance of religious instruction.
I’ll be sent to hell because that’s precisely what god created me for, evidently.
Vessels of wrath all that! What a loving god~~
dumbest reason for being sent to hell - existing in the first place
people like Brad scare me, I couldn't wait for the call to be over
"Yay!" for the shout-out to Epicurus and the early atomists.
Armin, in public Jesus preached love your enemy.
In private he told his disciples to kill their enemies at his feet.
Jesus, Mob Boss.
jesus mentioned hell more than anyone in the bible and saw it as a place of torture.....failing to get their jesus is love crap
Great show ❤
The cross examiner has the coolest atheist nickname and he certainly lives up to it too!
Only if it's "The ten commandments" on the tablets in the arc of the covenant. I want to see it! "Thou shalt not boil a kid in it's mother's milk"😂
😂 mother's milk? Haven't you seen these atheist humanist men breast feeding their babies.
Always ask, 'Have you celebrated the feast of unleavened bread, whatever the hell that is?'
“It’s “ means “it is”.
@@reefhog Correct, which means the way they used it was just fine. 😊
@@greeneyedlady5580 Boil a kid in it is mother’s milk ? That’s not correct. Go back to school.
I almost bursted laughing when devon said "you're suposed to pray for crazy people"
The dumbest reason to be sent to hell: For trying to be a good person. So ... the reason most people are going there, according to Christians.
A much better show than last week. Some actual conversations occured. A good pairing of hosts.
Devon (and the hosts) brought to light the issues with divine command theory and objective morality.
Holy crap Devon, natural disasters aren't caused by supernatural forces, we actually understand how these things happen, and the one thing they all have in common, naturalistic explanations and no causation between "people being bad" and natural disasters.
Unholy gender crap did you know that atheists are always making claims to the supernatural like the idea of the origins of Life coming into existence without creation, without God.
@@HumanistsAreEvil Still stuck on your childish belief that magic spells are real, I see..
@@holgerlubotzki3469 you believe in magic you believe people can pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence.
You believe in magical brains that can change people's gender..
And you refuse to denounce little boys getting metzitzah jobs.
@@HumanistsAreEvil There's some argument in your strawman. No wait, it's just projection.
@@AXKfUN9m don't be silly it's not straw Manning when I point out the fact some atheists believe in the supernatural aka the idea of the origins of Life came into existence without God.
Atheists have a lot of faith based beliefs in the supernatural like the idea that somebody can have a brain that doesn't match their body.they believe that on faith so strongly that they mutilate themselves and their children
You probably have that same faith-based belief, I know how we can settle it, supply a rational definition for the word female.
On the call with Brad, looking at the past as though it was so great is a special type of stupid. We just have better information to realize the problems we actually have now.
Armin is the best
The dumbest reason for being sent to hell is because a naked woman in a fairy tale ate some fruit off a tree in a garden.
Just violated atheist humanist gender Faith how do you know this person is a woman if they didn't identify as one.
@@HumanistsAreEvil Your fairy tale book of wholly babble stated it was a woman.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 He would have to actually read the Bible.
He still hasn't confirmed that he is against pedo aka believing that Jesus died for his sins.
@@HumanistsAreEvil In the Bible a rib from a male identifies as a woman. How do you explain that, Joey?
@@AXKfUN9m
I saw what ya did there Tom ....ahem....Joey.
I love Armin as myself.
Brad, the argument non understander has called in to chat…
Armin was literally saying that basing morality on what god says is the problem because he *could* say ANYTHING IS MORAL because god says it is. A god could just say “ok, now it’s Opposite Day” and you just have to go with it *because* he says so. You’re doing no work to decide for yourself, and that’s the problem.
Yeah, divine command theory isn't a moral idea. Its subjugation. You're choosing to follow him regardless of what he says.
If you can judge the morality of gods, you didn't need the gods to make moral judgements.
Love Armin and cross examiner
Thanks so much!
29:48 That's actually an interesting discussion :
When Armin says : "it looks at the outcomes in order to maximize well-being"
The follow-up question then becomes : why do you care about (individual) well-being ?
In a sense, utilitarianism seeks to maximize some utility, but there is somewhere a prior valuing of what the utility is.
So it can be compassionate if what you value is well-being ( compassion being important there) , but it could also be misaligned.
Ultimately, I think there's an interplay between a reason based deontology and utilitarianism, both informing each other and building as complex layers upon one another.
A perfect version of good cop/bad cop.
Thank you!
Good luck getting teachers of different beliefs to answer questions from students on these and i am a solid NO on this topic. No religeon should be any where near government national or local.
The founding fathers built in the separation of religion from government was because they saw the bloody results of differing opinions on biblical interpretation. Good luck to the government and teachers to try and figure out what the bible says.
I'm tired of Democrats not only pushing gender faith but they also push Jewish Talmud law when it comes to abortion pushing abortion all the way up to birth when it's a violation of the constitutional right to life. I don't know what one Democrat politician that doesn't support the Jewish Town medical over the constitution
Best duo of good cop bad cop
Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
Why don't you quote the talmud instead of quoting the bible out of context
The talmud teaches that its followers are human beings but people who are not members of their tribe are not human beings but animals on Earth in human form with no other purpose but to serve the tribe.
@@HumanistsAreEvil your whataboutism is dismissed. IMHO all the religions I've been introduced to have issues. The Abrahamic ones are cancerous and violent. ... Having said all that, The #1 INTERNAL THREAT to the U.S. IS the Christian Talibangelicals.
Now, if you don't like the verses, ignore them the way that 40,000 Denominations of Christianity do.
@@HumanistsAreEvil only the men, who aren't enslaved, and haven't touched pork, or shellfish, and have the right haircut.... yeah.... context is what'll fix that.... HA!
I believe Cross Examiner was referring to The Ones who Walk Away from Omelas.
YES! Thanks for posting this. I have cited that story ever since I read it decades ago. I couldn't recall the title during the call!
@@thecrossexaminer6665 No problem. I only recently learned of it myself when a TV show copied it for an episode.
For Brad: if a person does not have “god blinders” on that person can see verses like this for exactly what they are! Abhorrent
Most of the atheists in Brad’s imagination prove his points😂😂😂
54:20 The story is called "the ones who walk away from omelas"
Callers like Devon are great. Because they’re either trolling and pretending to have a learning issue. Or they have a learning issue.
It's terribly hard for some to think outside of their indoctrination. They've been trained to reject anything that contradicts it.
I'm by no means trying to defend the 10 commandments, but the 6th commandment (the kill one) uses Strong's word 7523 which corresponds with the BDB definitions of murder and murderer (that is the act of killing someone illegally). If you want to make the point you were trying to make, go to Numbers 31:17 which uses Strong's word 2026, corresponding with the BDB definitions of kill and slay, and ask why the baby boys had to be killed along with their parents and non-virgin sisters.
Edit: ABSOLUTELY love how Armin brought that back to utilitarianism!
Dumbest reason to be sent to hell: *_Blaspheming the WIND¹_* (the only unforgivable sin).
¹ The Hebrew and Greek words translated as "(Holy) Spirit", both mean "wind" (and also "breath", in the Greek).
The Holy Spirit has wind, got it.
Dumbest Reason for losing your job in atheistic humanist New York..... Not agreeing that atheists humanists Rachel Levine is a beautiful intelligent same woman.
@@mirandarensberger6919 a "gaseous anomaly", for sure!
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 So, if I "break wind" while praying . . . wait . . . Agh! Holy halitosis! I feel like I'm so close to grasping it! Just give me a little more time, I pray. What does any of this have to do with mustard seeds?
@@xmillion1704 think, grasshopper. Think.
You'll get there. 😉
I love that Brad perfectly articulated just how horrifying the story of Abraham and Issac is, he just said it's good in the end. We would have told it the exact same way. Abraham put ilhis trust in god and that's why it's horrifying lol. He just slapped an "it's good" on the end to one of the most horrifying experiences a parent could ever imagine. Because Abraham was prepared to go through with it. He was convinced he had to do it. The psychological torture ALONE is insane.
Not to be contrary, but I can only imagine that it was pretty horrifying experience for Isaac. I mean, what measures does one take at that point to protect one's self against the possibility that at any point, day or night, god may tell your Dad, "Aww Fuck it! Just go and kill him now!"?
1:40:18 Brad "I don't think democracy is the greatest system..." That statement has to be the biggest red flag about any person and their ideological stances.
Yeah...I didn't have time to dive into that, but....wow. It is something a lot of conservatives have started saying over the last few years. usually it takes the form of "Actually, we are a republic...not a democracy." As soon as they go there, you know they are fascist assholes.
Devon proceeds to ignore cross examiners, direct question and launch into a boring rant against boring rants.
Yeah, it was frustrating.
Yeah, that stunk. It's was a great point of saying we could make the 10 commandments better and gave an example.
Devon knew he had absolutely no rebuttal, so he strawmanned utilitarianism.
Theists seem to have a filibuster tactic with every debate
Wow, Brad seems to have forgotten the Spanish Inquisition and all the other religious wars and skirmishes... yes, society should be more religious... just look at how this worked in the past
@@bradsmith1295Secular societies HAVE done bad things. So have 'Christian' ones.
@@bradsmith1295 So the point is that Christianity offers no actual moral advantage on a broader social level..
I doubt Brad knows anything about the Spanish Inquisition, the Templars, or really anything historical that shows his religion is garbage.
The answer, because.
Brad the interpretation is irrelevant, there is no justification for mindlessly obeying orders. Even from a god.
@@bradsmith1295 You don't "know" that. You simply want to believe it for some reason.
@@bradsmith1295Except how would you possibly know that?.No, you've been told this and you were taught to accept it without thinking too much about it.
@@bradsmith1295I am aware of Christian perspectives. I used to have one, you know. And yes, plural. The question is still pertinent.
@@bradsmith1295 I'm certainly not capable of putting myself in the position of a person who believes immoral nonsense without a shred of good verifiable evidence. How could I be?
@@bradsmith1295 Why are you engaging on these points but ignoring the question I asked in the other thread?
_"Murder is when you kill an innocent person"_
Care to define "innocent"? Do the children of the French villagers executed by Adolf's soldiers because the villagers would not give up the French resistance fighters fall into that category?
Devon is the best argument against Ten Commandments or anything Biblical being used to teach kids about morality!
You are awesome michael 💪
A good person will do good things, and a bad person will do bad things, but it takes religion to make a good person do bad things. - attribution uncertain
Theistic callers stall to google answers when they don’t have them
The status of the lemon test is complicated and even the details of the lemon test have varied a bit (for example sometimes O'Connor's endorsement test would get pushed into an application of the Lemon Test) and the repudiation of the lemon test isn't absolute, it was more "hey we aren't going to apply these three standards together though they might individually apply when we feel like it."
The argument that the lemon test has been tossed out the window enough (in flag cases and such) that it could be ignored as a matter of course regardless of its status made me punch the wall.
My father was a prisoner of war in Japan.. the only use he found for it was that it was made from rice paper which was good for rolling cigarettes.
I remember when "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance. I always refuse to recite those two words.
Brad, yes some atheists may say religion is good, there are plenty of theists who think humanism is good.
Your claim doesn't really support what you think it supports.
Dumbest reason to be sent to Hell is for eating bacon. If eating pork is wrong, I never wanted to be right anyway.
Religion is poison especially Biblical religions. That said pigs are awesome intelligent creatures. There’s plant based alternatives that taste great.
"great" is a very subjective term.
@@BlarglemanTheSkeptic2 I'm waiting for a plant based alternative that taste grrrreeeat!
@@queuecee I've been vegetarian for years, and I don't eat "meat substitutes" unless it's literally the only thing available, because, yeah, they're gross.
@@BrokeTheSeal Bollocks.
Dumbest reason to be sent to hell: I bought my indulgences with a bad check. Who'd have thought that an eternal being would try to cash it so soon?
Brad is obviously a Jordan peterson fanboy.
@bradsmith1295 you are not open minded. You are a relativist who don't know what you believe. Sorry but it's true.
@@bradsmith1295
Why should we? There’s *nothing* special about Christianity that we can’t get as atheists.
@@bradsmith1295 What does Christianity having some good things in it have anything to do with the existence of god, which is what atheism is. Maybe you aren't giving atheism a fair shake and unfairly maligning atheists.
@@bradsmith1295there is nothing in Christianity that can't be found without it.
Now if Christians would stop trying to force their religion into every facet of other peoples lives.
Most of us wouldn't give a toss about their daffy beliefs.
@@tonyclements1147 Strange, bradsmith's comments have been removed🤔🤣
devine command theory, i learn alot today and why atheisim is moral, thank Arman
Lol "misinterpreting Abraham and Isaac"... what about Jepthah's daughter!?!
I would imagine people on the show just say dollars for US Dollars because this is the Atheist Community of Austin
I love how Brad casually mentions how he isn't really a fan of democracy at 1:40:19, and then quickly tries to move the conversation on.
omg...did the black cat cross in front of the mirror behind the ladder?
GOD IS IMMORAL
Brad started the call by accusing them of making a strawman argument and then later on he says that if they're pro-choice, they're okay with killing children. Nice strawman, Brad.
Brad,prove that your god exists outside of the story in the Bible,first
The belief in God predates the Bible and every civilization we have ever come across came to the same conclusion of a Creator not only predating the Bible but despite not having contact with each other
Do you believe the origins of Life came into existence without creation, without God if so please provide evidence to why you believe that and if I'm not convinced in return I will provide evidence to why I believe in God so we can see which one is more logical
If you don't believe the origins of Life came into existence without God just respond by telling me we found commonality and that would be the fact neither one of us believes the origins of Life came into existence without God.
@@HumanistsAreEvilfewer people believe in god less now than ever and we know more about the world and the universe than we ever have.
Every time a person thought something was caused by god, we found out it wasn’t when we figured it out.
I don’t believe your premise. People came up with god. They didn’t come with it.
@@HumanistsAreEvilI don't even think that a god or deity is even possible. Please get me that far before you start claiming any supposed capabilities of any gods or deities.
@@HumanistsAreEvil Additionally, you're not allowed to proclaim that a fictional character is responsible for the origins of life until you can first prove that the character isn't fictional. Until then, it's just a fictional character.
@@Wiggimus
You don't believe a God is even possible okay that's fine now provide the evidence to why you believe that.
You could do that by providing proof to the supernatural aka the idea of the origins of Life can come into existence without creation, without God.. or maybe you believe life always existed .
So which one is it do you believe life popped into existence because of a intelligent occurrence or do you believe it always existed .
If I not convinced by your argument in return I will provide an argument to why I believe in God so we can see which one is more logical.
PS if you provide a lazy argument like well I never seen God I'm going to give you a lazy argument in return and argue that I never seen life pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence.
Yes Devon we need the 10 commandments in schools to teach kids not to kill because they didn't know it was wrong.
We also need to tell 10 year olds not to cheat on their wives or worship other gods