Few things I wanna clear up, I know a lot of ppl will disagree with my thought process regarding the ending (Ellie vs Abby)...hell, I even kinda disagree with what I said to a certain extent but given my understanding of the characters I truly believe Joel wouldn't have wanted ANY of that for her. Just let go Ellie girl. "Just know that every man I kill the further away from home I feel" Tom Hanks character said that in Saving Private Ryan. ALSO Keep in mind I did NOT play the game so I didn't have 25 hours in with 1000 kills under my belt. I watched the story cut scenes like an episodic tv show on YT so for me Ellie had only killed like 10 ppl. Had I invested 25 hours...her being forgiving toward this individual wouldn't have been as easily acceptable. At the 13:22 mark I meant you don't put opposing family members on the JURY not stand cause the person on trial will never get a fair shot. Neil Druckmann's goal to create the most "bad ass" female character falls FLAT cause she will never get a fair trial cause she's already guilty by her actions in the beginning of the game. I have NEVER connected with a video game character like I had with Joel...EVER & to see him discarded like trash is the reason I don't support this game. Let's kill Geralt 2 hours into the Witcher 4 or better yet let's play Red Dead 3 as Micah Bell...I truly believe Neil & his team are talented that wasn't a lie but he's so desperate to spread his feminism ideologies that it clearly got in the way of his story telling. Such a shame.
Couldn’t have said it any better. This story of this game was a tragedy simply put. The game is definitely a Masterpiece in gaming when it comes to the graphics and world building.
Why do we ALWAYS have to try and justify why we feel the way we do about stuff like this? We shouldn't have to apologize or try to "explain ourselves" for being normal. You aren't a bigot just because you dont pander to the left. You cant criticize anything or anyone on the left without being called a racist, homophobe, sexist, bigot, etc. Its a smart tactic they use to silence any and all opposition. Most of us dont care about that bs, if they dont force it on us. But they are clearly forcing this sjw bullshit in everything from games,movies,music, tv,books, etc etc. We can tolerate liberals and the sjw BS, but it doesn't mean we have to accept it and adopt their "core values and beliefs" and replace our own. The are like the mafia. Any dissent or anything and you are demonized, canceled, character assassinated, etc. That way no one will ever complain, out of fear. And they can literally impose anything they want upon all of us and we have to accept it. Its been going on and so many people do not want to see it. They continue to lie to themselves and everyone else.
*SPOILER ALERT* . . . . People are trying to justify the plot of this game like "Joel deserved it" or "You're sexist because you can't handle playing a female lead" or "The gameplay is still fun." Let's say he had to die like that. Fine. I KNEW he was going to die when they announced part 2, he does need to pay for what he's done. Like it or not , he is the villain. But have it happen at the end of the game, or even closer to the middle. Not in the fucking INTRO. I wanted to see him and his repaired bond with his brother and I wanted to see him with Ellie way longer than just flashbacks. Look, you can spray perfume on shit, you can dress the shit up and paint the shit gold. At the end of the day it's still a piece of shit. P.S. Big fan of ur videos been binging all ur content
@@fabianch6521 I don't think you understand dummy. Just like the first game there is a DLC for Ellie before she met Joel and that was great. Part 2 should have never let us spend 6 hours playing as Abby. they should have took that out and give us more gameplay with Ellie and have a DLC with Abby if you wanna see her side.
@@Who-Uhm-Cares yeah, plus the likelihood that Dina just went down to Jackson is super high, like it's not like she would get far with a baby so I bet we see more of Dina later. Hope so, I liked her.
@@M0NTlCAT I think the problem a lot of people have with the ending is that Ellie brutally killed so many to get to that point, why would she not stop after her first brutal kill? And the fact that she was about to finish her goal of killing Abby I wouldnt have thought freeing Abby would free her mind, might as well just finish the job and avenge Joel. I agree Joel wouldnt have wanted Ellie to risk her life to avenge him, but she did risk it and more or less had the task completed so I think at that point she should follow through. I get that the end would be decisive but at the end of the day it still doesnt matter, the whole plot was a mess for me.
@@M0NTlCAT you are an absolute clown. Ellie even murders our friend Fat Geralt who punched Lev earlier and later caught Ellie in a trap. FAT GERALT didn't have to die. Neither did all of Fat Geralt's friends. But you are forced to kill them all. And when yo ufinally find Abby, you don't kill her? :click: Noice.
I know, man. This game was just a way for Naughty Dog to make you feel depressed and empty. I played the whole thing myself and I felt such sadness. I hated playing as this "Abby" character. I felt so uncomfortable playing those parts of the game and there were a LOT of "Abby" content. The flashbacks with Joel and Ellie was beautiful but so depressing because of the beginning of the game. At the end and after completing this game I just felt EMPTY. Fucking depressing..
Y'all are acting like this is real life society 😂😂 this is the zombie apocalypse and ellie was the cure to man kind. Even know I'm happy she was saved for the sake of the game, you can't blame the fireflies for not telling joel. Ellie would've literally saved the world
@@happytroll2477 lmao they didn't even allow him a goodbye . The vaccine ain't even 100% sure so a humane decision is to ask ellie and get her consent , Marlene wasn't that happy with killing ellie (so talking to ellie and getting her conscent) will ease marlenne's pain . Also Joel got nothing , he delivered her to the fireflies and got no payment , all he got is a walk away , so expecting Joel to just go is just stupid (he's a smuggler ) he does work and gets paid for it ... Imagine if they woke ellie up and gave Joel and ellie a goodbye ,
I was literally thinking that the second she said “My life was supposed to matter.” Or something to that effect. I wanted to Joel to say “It does to me.”
Lmao imagine if Joel just said " first , the fireflies didn't give you a choice either , second ,the cure isn't even 100 % sure , you were a try out , if they failed, then you would've died for nothing ,and also you dont know if the fireflies are going to give the vaccine to everyone what if they keep it for their group and rule over the group ?! ,people will start wars to steal it from them ,, even if they wanted to save all the world how do you know they have enough ingredients to make thousands of vaccines ?! It wasn't worth it""
All they had to do is have you start out with the direct continuation of the 1'st one, aka the flashbacks. Then, you play as abby, mgs2 style. All the way to reaching joel and tommy. Then play as ellie to the same moment, then THE cutscene. which i, would put a bit into the game. Like half way through. You continue playing as ellie till the part where she leaves the map, where you cut back to abby and her finding the map and everything else unfolds the way it did. Except that abby and the last airbender get captured WITHIN the those guys' camp. So then you play as ellie again (yeah i know it's all over the place) tracking down abby the way it did, but actually going out of her way to kill everyone who captured her. She sets her "free" only to kill her. She fails, in fact i would have abby winning the fight. And just before abby strangles ellie something would happen to separate them (i don't know what, maybe a horde or scavangers or something i don't care at this point). Boom! Abby escapes with airbender, ellie barely escapes with her life, losing everything and everyone. Roll credits. Although, just to note, i only did with what neil gave me within tlou2. I would have NOT gone this way with the story at all.
Yeah, I've heard this a lot - and I used to say the same thing about how TLOU2's char's were killed off. But then I reflected on it and realised - this is *their* world -- and it's daaaaark fam. They don't get to die in a satisfactory way, a way that the player feels closure - not at all. It's an apocalypse, after all.
Even in the walking dead, negan and his crew killed off beloved characters, but you STILL tolerated it! He hated him, but still found him interesting and wanted to see how he ran his crew, and were they came from and back story. NO ONE gives a fuck about abbys team, theyre all lame and bland as fuck just for politics sake. Thanos killed spiderman and shit load of beloved characters thats been around since the 1970s, AND still, we wanted to see it through. This just shit forced writing.
you see the disgusting part is that in the 3 years ago trailer Joel appeared and said to Ellie "are you really willing to go through this?" and in the 8 months ago one he appeared in the woods mid game scene and said "I'm not gonna let you do this on your own" people cheered for that and thought Joel is 100%playable and not the person Ellies seeking revenge for and that's why the game got all the pre orders in the first place and it turned out to be a marketing move and they literally spited on us Joel fans so no matter what people say this game deserves the hate it got from the ppl.
@Megatron EX1127 I totally understand that it's a weak ass revenge story. Very unoriginal and weak writing. Maybe your the ass-hat that keeps drinking corporate liberal kool aid.
Megatron EX1127 THANK YOU, so many band wagoners can’t even understand the plot just willing to jump the dislike train for likes and other corroborators.
Nah dude let me state it even better. It's like killing John wick 20% into the game then having his wife now kill everyone else down the rest of the movie, Then she kisses and has sex with the dog killer because why not. Then she goes home and remembers she wanted to kill John Wicks Dog Killer She goes back *AGAIN* to get justice Then at the end goes back home *AGAIN* and burns her house to forget absolutely everything that happened in her past because *FUCK REALITY*
My expectations were low and the game still fell short. The game is a disappointment because how It just crushed all the brilliance the first Last of Us had and built. A small example its how much more sexualized TLOU2 is compared to first one just because. The first one was so subtle with it like Joel's relationship with Tess, or how you can miss that Bill is gay but none of that matters because its about the bigger picture, the connections felt genuine in the first one.
I didn't quite understand what I didn't like about TLOU2, but now I think it's exactly what you said. part2 never compares to the first game, despite the better graphics and good acting.
Dude that was heartfelt and evidence of how much a masterclass in story telling part one was. Joel is (was?) one of the most sharpest and dangerous killers in fiction. One thing that I think you have nailed is the fact there was never a choice ever in Joel's mind in what he did in the part one. I don't think he even went over it in his head after. No hesitation. No doubt. No remorse at all; when it comes to protecting his daughter. An absolute singularity in intent and Obsession in seeing it through. In part one I liked Joel immensely already but when he SAVED Ellie AND killed Marlene AND then lied to Ellie without even a second thought or guilt I went from liking Joel to loving his character. It wasn't just love that drove him. It was his shrewdness and wisdom. Proof that a good father or good elders have experience and insight sometimes totally lacking with youngsters. Joel just didn't love Ellie. He understood the world and man's cruelty and capacity for evil. After what Joel had experienced in life he would have to be a fool to trust a strange doctors word that lobotomising Ellie would provide a guaranteed cure. Hell look at the struggles that they are having with a cure for covid-19... And that is with the worlds intact resources. So Joel would have to be an idiot to trust in a bunch of post apocalyptic quack doctors with their quack resources that they are going to provide a vaccine/cure. And Joel is no idiot. And even if the cure worked then to give the control of that cure to someone like the Fireflies... Such people would be able to reshape the world in their image.. So Out of the frying pan and into the fire... Lets be real. There is an agenda here. And story telling and consistency in character development was the casualty to that agenda. The masterclass of part one was that we FELT what Joel was going through in a way that isn't possible in other mediums of fiction. In truth Joel encompassed everything virtuous and worthwhile in a man. Which is why naughty dog had to kill him...and they killed him in more ways then one. But fairs fair. Its their character. They can do what they want. But so can I. Naughty Dog are dead to me.
Joel didn't just doom humanity. He rendered the deaths of Sam, Henry, Tess and Riley pointless, killed Ellie's surrogate mother, Marlene and robbed Ellie of her choice in the matter. Joel isn't a bad guy, but he isn't a hero. There could be lots of innocent people that needed a cure, but Joel took that away from them. You completely misunderstood the morally grey nature of every character in the Last of Us universe, seeing how Tlou2 reinforces that idea and you just disregarded it because you think Naughty Dog is pushing some 'agenda'. Your critiques do not reflect the intricacies of how human beings act and the philosophy of ideology, purpose and identity. You are so hyperfixated on the superficial ideals that you expect of different groups of people, that's it's no wonder you are incapable of opening your mind to anything that challenges your principles and beliefs.
@@snoop4472 you saying he rendered their death pointless is a proff enough you didn't pay any attention to the first game, First tess, she was basically doing all of that for the weapons and when she find out their is a possibility for a cure she toke it, although if she did know the cure would kill Ellie I don't think she will be ok with it. Second, sam and henry, they have completely no interest in a cure whatsoever in fact they didn't even know Ellie was immune they just wanted to survive, here goes your second point. And lastly Joel, all i can say if they put me in that same position as a father or as brother i would do it the same way that he did if not worse mind you, and if i find abby when there i will try to reason with her first and tell her what Ellie means to me, if she understood which i doubt she will then i will let her go, but if not then i will kill her too, and live with that because I do not give a fuck who thinks i am right or wrong so as joel.
Alright now getting serious: When your story needs flashbacks (specially long ones) and retcons, that automatically writes it off of being elite level cultured quality like Alan Wake, Max Payne 1 or Metro 2033 , but when you get a FLASHBACK INSIDE A FLASHBACK....who tf thought that was a good idea??? Not to mention...Joel ran a guy over because he could tell it was an ambush...but he'll turn his back and put himself in harms way in a room full of randoms??? plus give his real name???. What a joke.
I’ve heard so many delusional people try give rationalizations to why Joel would uncharacteristically do something like go into that basement and offer up his identity. Things like “he’s softened in the last 4-5 years” like wtf? People are actually trying to convince themselves this writing makes sense.
It was actually Tommy who gave up their name before, while they were fighting the horde, and Joel knew that Abby already knew his name so lying wouldn't have changed anything. Joel was already vigilant when they entered the chalet, instead Tommy seemed too relaxed. If it was someone's fault it was Tommy's which probably said their names without even thinking since they were fighting and couldn't think about this consequence.
Neo Rain the whole bull shit excuse that he got soft after being in Jackson makes no sense. You dont just forget survival skills that got you across the county, people with trust issues dont just suddenly become trusting of strangers because of a few years of peace. Its a bull shit excuse to say he would forget thoes skills.
Could you imagine a GOW sequel where Kratos dies in the first 2 hours like a side character and Atreus goes on a revenge spree then spares the killer??. Neil needs to retire from ND.
Thats the best analogy I know until this day, and then you have to play as one of the npcs kids in gow for 10hrs doing side quest like a bad dlc torturing the fans.
If only John Wick kills all those people to get to the son who killed his dog! Then by the end spares his life. The confronts the father and after beating him up let's the father live too and says "it wasn't just a dog!" And then that's the end of the move! ._.
Yes. I was commenting the same thing days ago. If Kratos has to die, let him die in an epic battle. If Kratos died because he was surrounded by 5 draugr. I swear I would stop playing the game.
This is straight-up facts. I just finished the game yesterday, the story is absolute garbage it actually breaks my heart. The gameplay overall is amazing but this just isn't TLOU :( I'll pretend TLOU 2 never happened.
Personally I loved it. Yes I hated some of the directions they took but the overall revenge story was awesome. If I had to change anything it’s playing as Abby for half the damn game.
@@Who-Uhm-Cares I agree, the first half wasn't as bad I would go with it, but just the fact that you have to play as Abby for the second half of the game AND FIGHT ELLIE angers me, it caught me by surprise actually. Overall for a Naughty Dog game, and a sequel for such a loved videogame, TLOU 2 was personally disappointing to me
Hey Solidrev - nobody has summed up my feelings and frustration with this game like you just did. You exactly called it, man. It's physically painful to watch such beloved characters mishandled by Neil. I aint even got the words.
@@ExposingLames those parts honestly warm my heart a beat, and make me brake from the inside... i was thinking in my dad all the dam time on those flashbacks u_u
The real Joel would engage against Abby the MOMENT she suggested going back to the lodge, he would knock her out, go back to jackson for reinforcements THEN hit the lodge
Then you miss the point of the ending of 1. Joel became soft for the greater purpose of Ellie. You can clearly tell the dude changed and mellowed out. However, if it was still in part 1. Yes. he would have been way more alert and would have not gone in.
@@squallthegriever became softer? He murdered the fireflies to save Ellie, she is the only one he softened for. He wouldn't lose all his edge and make such a stupid mistake.
@@EliWintercross keep telling yourself that. The fact he found a new home with his brother and sister in law and ellie. Yeah I'm sure that didnt soften him up after getting a bit comfortable. C mon man.
I feel like they should have given the players the choice to kill abby or not in the ending. would have made for a satisfying way to end it all in my opinion, because Idk about you, but if someone bites off my fingars like that I'm finishing them! no pun attended
Whoever leaked the plot points saved me £50 and many wasted hours. This game gets the Series 8 of GOT and The Last Jedi treatment in my world. It doesn't exist, I ain't even mad.. im dissapointed
氷Icyy how did they write him badly? The guy may have been simple, but not underwritten. He had honor and integrity, a wry sense of humor, and showed maturity beyond his years.
@@candidlyopinionated19 He suddenly died and never mentioned again. That's how he's badly written. It's not him, it's his role in the story that is bad.
“Tommy has to go ask the boss.....aka his wife.” I was dying.....hahaha! I’ve been hoping the Reverend would speak on this. The flashbacks were the only enjoyable part, but I felt like it was therefore a crutch......the only way to make the rest of the game tolerable.
Kevin Harris - Haha, yeah it's funny but Tommy didn't actually ask his wife. He made the decision on his own to leave and left his wife a note to let her know what he was doing.
You dont have to play The Last Of Us multiple times to understand the connection between Joel and Ellie. We do have the right to complain about the events that take place in TLOU 2.
What a retarded comment. it implies Ellie hasnt been the main start of the series. You play as Joel, and he is the protagonist but Ellie was if not is the main star since then. The whole narrative and focus of LoU is ELLIE. So no, that was a bad example.
I was trying to avoid the leaks, but failed. I said i'm not buying it. But i was so hyped And so in love with the first game, i couldnt resist. I bought it. Fuck. Me.
u missed out on something special. U'll never get that chance again. All you have now is justification of why its right to have missed out on a great game.
The last word of the game was "Yep." - It could've been "I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but I love you, kiddo." Or whatever, I know Joel isn't cheesy, but we've seen through his actions throughout the first game and the second game's flashbacks how much he absolutely loves Ellie like his own. Just some semblance that they parted ways on better terms than they actually did. He died not being able to repair that relationship when it was on the cusp of beginning to be fixed.
I always thought ND and the majority of their games were overrated, especially TLOU and Uncharted. I bought TLOU on sale for $9.99. Played it, got bored, didn't touch it for months. Beat it last week and yeah. That game hooked me. Joel and Ellie are beautifully crafted characters.
@@ExposingLames indeed. I understand Ellie being mad at Joel but I don't understand why she couldn't see it from Joel's side. When she confessed that everyone left her but him when he really wanted to leave was also part of his decision to save her. The game goes to hard to separate them.
Play first game 2 years ago and was blown away at how good the story and characters were done. Read the leaks for the second game and knew what was coming. Part 2 doesn’t exist for me. Naughty dog as a studio is dead to me.
After beating the game i ain't even gonna cap gameplay was amazing but story was ass, and if your playing a game like tlou2 story matters just as much as gameplay
He’s missing the point ...it’s not about ignoring the game and not playing it ...it’s about wanting to play the game because it’s an amazing storyline which many people think enjoy ...and people are upset that a franchise was just ruined at the hands of a disgusting game developer...they literally spat on Joel and they made a mockery of Father’s Day ...and people don’t like the game for a whole lot of other reasons ...smh
"If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again." This is Joel saying his love to ellie. And if you notice ellie was taken aback and decided there she wanted to mend her relationship with joel. Abby tortured Joel brutally yes, but Ellie tortured Joel for years when she shunned him away, the kind of pain that is insignificant to a golf club. Ellie wasn't seeking revenge at abby. She was furious she was robbed of the chance to mend her relationship with Joel just after she realised how much she hurt Joel. When she let abby go it wasn't that she was forgiving Abby. It's the moment she forgave Joel. I'm glad you appreciate the depressing bleakness of this story which is realism. Hope my comment gave you some insight cheers.
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. She was furious that Abby robbed her of her chance to mend her relationship with Joel, which means she blames Abby for what happened, which means she wanted revenge. How does forgiving Joel in spirit have anything to do with her emotions toward Abby? Abby robbed her of something regardless of your logic but you're just rationalizing that it's all mutually exclusive when it isn't. I think Rev's point is more plausible, wherein she realized that Joel wouldn't have wanted Ellie to go on that revenge quest in the first place, and it was only when remembering that last conversation did she realize she wasn't actually honoring Joel's memory by killing people he wronged, hence she decides to do what he would have preferred she do instead of what she wanted to do (revenge). Too bad she isn't rewarded for this whatsoever and since Joel is dead she has nothing but sentiment left for this act, which is what makes it feel so painfully stupid. She already sacrificed everything and appeasing Joel's sentiment is meaningless and considering her bodycount by that point in the game most of everyone was under the impression she already understood this, hence why she was letting herself plummet so far down. What Ellie needed in order for that moment of sparring Abby to make sense was a realization that Ellie doesn't need Joel for her life to matter! That's why the two characters are so interesting, they emotionally needed one another in order to feel whole and what Ellie needed was something to make her whole in Joel's absence. Appeasing his sentiment does not bring her this, meaning the most depressing possible outcome has occurred by the end of this game, and it's because Ellie makes literally every emotional mistake she could possibly make and it's not even clear that she fully understands this by the time the credits roll. People are MAD because the characters were written to be DUMB in order to make the game as SAD as possible. And no story is worse than a sad story written poorly.
@@oinkleberry I agree that Joel wouldn't want ellie to get revenge, heck Joel wouldn't want ellie to go on patrols if he could choose (he was trying his best to delay ellie's patrol training). No one really is divided on this point. I like the point you brought up how ellie doesn't need Joel for her life to matter, but it falls apart when you think she already decided that 4 years back when she revisited the hospital and told Joel she's done with him. What I was trying to explain is that Joel could have died from a clicker or a heart attack and ellie would still be equally furious. Her story is her dealing with the guilt of shunning Joel away for years only to realise how much Joel loves her the day before he dies. Of course it makes obvious sense to just stay in Jackson. But humans make decisions based on emotions and ellie's was on a self destructive path. She could have taken up alcoholism or seclusion. But because of what abby did she was able to channel these emotions towards a goal. I said before I like how you brought up she realised she doesn't need Joel for her life to matter. You kinda got the gist of it but to put it aptly it's her finally being able to let go of her guilt from Joel. Hope this provides you more insight and understanding cheers
I think ellie shud really make abby drown. And then if ellie chooses to revive her back then ellie tries to do cpr then the story would be better. Shoot first ask later.
I think there’s some truth to that, but it’s not so cut and dry. My takeaway from the ending is that Abby could’ve been anybody; if not her, somebody with some justification would eventually kill Joel. Ellie, remembering their last conversation, realizes that Abby is irrelevant to her grief; Ellie isn’t upset just that Joel died, it was bound to happen; Ellie is upset that she didn’t better make use of the four years with him that she had. The ending of the game, as flawed as it was, did manage to raise questions about how I live my life; about how so often, the focus of our lives is to get MORE time; but really, time is fleeting and beyond our control. Rather than thrashing at the forces of time, it’s best to accept that time we have and make the most use of it while we can. And so Ellie lets Abby go, because Abby was only a temporary problem but Ellie’s wasted years of not trying with Joel will never come back. It’s not a perfect message, but I see what they were going for.
I love this guy!! Nothing but facts. My favorite part is when he says, "They all have to burn! In my play through, I killed them all for trying to kill Ellie!!" I was like preach it brother!
@@krick_mufc9291 Could've been the look of just pain after he was beat that much, he was beat so bad by that point that the only feeling left was probably pain, because his head was already dented in so we most likely couldn't think straight
Its not in your opinion, people have to start to know, that talk about the graphics is like saying rain is wet, obviously the graphics would be insane, Uncharted 4 was the best of this generation, until now...
I don't think they did it for shock value. Neil Cuckman already said he did what he did because of his own personal feminist SJW politics. This game was made because of a political agenda. As for females in video games, one of my all time favorite games was Horizon Zero Dawn, including the DLC. That game was epic!! Aloy was an amazing main character in that game.
Come on Rev u know why they killed Joel. Tlou was one of my favorite games. An I refuse to play this game even tho there is a drought right now. Joel died because of his appearance
I honestly have to disagree, he died for the sake of shock value, if he died because of his appearance then why did they write Abby getting analed by a white dude?
@@alphach1mp "spared". Off-screen he got condemned and thrown out of the house by his own wife and is a cripple. That's a very fitting end for a straight white male character, only bested by a golf club to the head.
@@EnigmaticJay Henry killing his brother and himself was hard on me but for real Isaac was under utilized. He seemed so badass and I feel like he would have been a great sort of boss battle but yea I feel like everyone except Abby got bodied.
Damn man, I got teary eyed just hearing you talk about the ending with Joel and Ellie. I loved these two so damn much man, loved the first game. If it is any consolation, I think Joel knew man. I think Joel knew he meant the world to Ellie too. The reason I say that is because when Abby is bashing his head in, right before the final blow man, you see Joel look straight at Ellie. Ellie is pleading BEGGING for Joel’s life. I like to think he went out in peace knowing Ellie loves him, knowing Sarah was going to be welcoming him with open arms on the other side.
from tlou A Mothers letter My son... my little boy... I buried him today. What did he do? Join a protest? And now they're labeling him a traitor. Fine. I'll show them what a traitor does. I've joined them, the rebels, the rioters. They gave me a gun, some bullets, and a mission. I won't survive this, but neither will they. How many other fathers and mothers like me are out there? It's only a matter of time before the city falls. Let's go knock out the first brick. Joel: Well, with that kind of thinking, no one wins... So yeah Joel would not of wanted Ellie to do the revenge thing but the entire sequel stands or falls on the belief that Joel would of rescued Abby in the first place I dont believe he would of
that’s exactly what I believe that joel left the world without i love u from ellie or i forgive u , sad , almost alone ,and feeling he is useless, hopeless that he will live and he didnt know what will happen to ellie bec he died before pointing a gun on ellie
Not really, rockstar knew how to do it tho, hell even if they killed niko we would have accpeted it. This like if Ciri became the new protagonist of the witcher and a new character kills Geralt in the first 2 hours of the game in a really dumb way
Yeah I get the point of the ending "stopping the cycle of revenge" and yeah it is a big and a mature move but man... imagine Thanos collects all the infinity stones and then he says "nahhh I'm not doing it."
Yea Rev - I did the same thing. I'm guessing I'm about the same age as you and I know the only time anyone listens to negative feedback isn't when your screaming that you hate it, or review bombing them, they only listen when you don't buy what they're selling anymore, that gets their attention real quick. Agree with EVERY point you made. Great video.
RIP Joel, was the greatest father figure any game has ever seen he deserved better all he wanted was to protect her with his life. True father figure right there
Imagine this story line: Joel doesn’t get hoed. He joins Ellie on a quest to revenge Dina after proper time to fall in love with her as a player, or any other character that they establish as lovable. Toward the end we still realize that the vengeance cycle is pointless, but because the journey goes nowhere with a constant game of cat and mouse through the city, with comrades of both Ellie and the killer dying. During the climax of the game, the mission is jeopardized and Ellie and Joel have to attempt to make a rapid escape. In the struggle to run, Joel is bitten by a runner while he believes he is safe after just helping Ellie out of harms way. Then they must sit with the fact that because of Joel’s actions, he has no hope to live, for he sealed his fate the second he took Ellie from the fireflies. This plot would still allow them to show that there are consequences for the actions taken in this world, everything has a butterfly affect (like they tried to do with Abby’s vengeance). It also allows room to create a plot within it that revenge a means to an end, but a continuation of a never ending cycle
They definitely shouldn’t have done Joel this dirty but at the very least if they are going to do that at least let the player exact their revenge. Maybe it would t be the best thing for Ellie but it would damn sure be satisfying for the player. At least give the option.
What's nuts is the graphics and world of this game have so much attention to detail. To have the story ruin all these years of work is insane. The writers were simply out of their minds.
@@deathrager2404 There's no political bs sjw agenda man, the story just lacked like seriously who cares if a girl is jacked or if they're gay. If that's what you're focusing on why it's bad, actually look at the stuff that makes it bad
@@kanyumski - The lack of any good in people in this world makes it bad. The first game had little bits of humor and humanity but this sadistic story is just dark cloudy skies.
16:37 THANK YOU! I feel like you are the only person on RUclips who understands why Ellie is upset that Joel lied to her and at the same time understands why Joel did what he did.
I think I love you. Every girl wants to feel the safety and love that Joel provided. He learned to be okay in the world again. Ellie was forced to watch. She will never live in a world with joel in it again. Devastating. I just wish we got a hug at the end.
Thank you for making this video in the “raw” way you did. This was one of the few videos that I have seen where I was deeply emotionally connected to everything you said. It is so damn sad what had happened. I’m so angry that they chose revenge as the theme as it doesn’t add anything to the beloved themes of the first game. A big part of why we loved the first game was because of Joel and Ellie. Why not make the theme of the game about truth, forgiveness, and huamnity? People keep saying it over and over again but the character moments in the flashbacks with Joel and Ellie were so well done and emotionally charging and is what the sequel should have completely focused on. They were capable of so much good story writing and trashed it with something people don’t want to experience.
I beaten the last of us the original on grounded... but when I was done, I couldn't be bothered with a New game plus mode, it would just skimp the grounded experience for me.
@@cun7us won’t be playing Future games, I have played part 2, gameplay great, graphics amazing, story execution was poor, don’t have an issue with Abby or Joel dying. My issue is I was mislead by ND, the trailer had Joel “you think I’d let you do this on your on...” was actually Jesse, whistleblowers calling out the work conditions etc
Man you're missing the boat. You should've played this and narrated as you went! That would've been one hell-of-a commentary. Finally someone willing to say what needs to be said! Well said bud!
Few things I wanna clear up, I know a lot of ppl will disagree with my thought process regarding the ending (Ellie vs Abby)...hell, I even kinda disagree with what I said to a certain extent but given my understanding of the characters I truly believe Joel wouldn't have wanted ANY of that for her. Just let go Ellie girl. "Just know that every man I kill the further away from home I feel" Tom Hanks character said that in Saving Private Ryan. ALSO Keep in mind I did NOT play the game so I didn't have 25 hours in with 1000 kills under my belt. I watched the story cut scenes like an episodic tv show on YT so for me Ellie had only killed like 10 ppl. Had I invested 25 hours...her being forgiving toward this individual wouldn't have been as easily acceptable. At the 13:22 mark I meant you don't put opposing family members on the JURY not stand cause the person on trial will never get a fair shot. Neil Druckmann's goal to create the most "bad ass" female character falls FLAT cause she will never get a fair trial cause she's already guilty by her actions in the beginning of the game. I have NEVER connected with a video game character like I had with Joel...EVER & to see him discarded like trash is the reason I don't support this game. Let's kill Geralt 2 hours into the Witcher 4 or better yet let's play Red Dead 3 as Micah Bell...I truly believe Neil & his team are talented that wasn't a lie but he's so desperate to spread his feminism ideologies that it clearly got in the way of his story telling. Such a shame.
Your final surmised is right on the money bud, good for you.
Couldn’t have said it any better. This story of this game was a tragedy simply put. The game is definitely a Masterpiece in gaming when it comes to the graphics and world building.
Why do we ALWAYS have to try and justify why we feel the way we do about stuff like this? We shouldn't have to apologize or try to "explain ourselves" for being normal. You aren't a bigot just because you dont pander to the left. You cant criticize anything or anyone on the left without being called a racist, homophobe, sexist, bigot, etc. Its a smart tactic they use to silence any and all opposition. Most of us dont care about that bs, if they dont force it on us. But they are clearly forcing this sjw bullshit in everything from games,movies,music, tv,books, etc etc. We can tolerate liberals and the sjw BS, but it doesn't mean we have to accept it and adopt their "core values and beliefs" and replace our own. The are like the mafia. Any dissent or anything and you are demonized, canceled, character assassinated, etc. That way no one will ever complain, out of fear. And they can literally impose anything they want upon all of us and we have to accept it. Its been going on and so many people do not want to see it. They continue to lie to themselves and everyone else.
*SPOILER ALERT*
.
.
.
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People are trying to justify the plot of this game like "Joel deserved it" or "You're sexist because you can't handle playing a female lead" or "The gameplay is still fun."
Let's say he had to die like that. Fine.
I KNEW he was going to die when they announced part 2, he does need to pay for what he's done. Like it or not , he is the villain. But have it happen at the end of the game, or even closer to the middle. Not in the fucking INTRO. I wanted to see him and his repaired bond with his brother and I wanted to see him with Ellie way longer than just flashbacks.
Look, you can spray perfume on shit, you can dress the shit up and paint the shit gold.
At the end of the day it's still a piece of shit.
P.S.
Big fan of ur videos been binging all ur content
I actually never thought of the ending that way. That’s a really good way of putting it and I thank you for that. Now I’m not as mad at the ending.
The Abby stuff should of been a DLC. The flashbacks with Joel should of been the game.
wtf are you even saying? pay more for that shit, people that thinks like you are the guilty ones that dlcs are a very normal thing.
@@fabianch6521 I don't think you understand dummy. Just like the first game there is a DLC for Ellie before she met Joel and that was great. Part 2 should have never let us spend 6 hours playing as Abby. they should have took that out and give us more gameplay with Ellie and have a DLC with Abby if you wanna see her side.
@@fabianch6521 moron
@@osskeet Another idiot saying that dlcs are good, what a shame.
No no no y'all got it all wrong lol, it should be DLC so we won't buy it XD
Ellie biggest fear Is being alone well now she’s alone
why did dina leaves a safe place in a zombie apocalypse??
Dina will return eventually I’m sure. I feel like TLOU part 3 will overall be about HOPE instead of revenge. That way the trilogy comes full circle.
@@Who-Uhm-Cares a trilogy? Ill doubt it after that mess
@@Who-Uhm-Cares yeah, plus the likelihood that Dina just went down to Jackson is super high, like it's not like she would get far with a baby so I bet we see more of Dina later. Hope so, I liked her.
@@amber88565 and her son will be also a transgender lmao
Plot twist: The last of us 3 starts with Joel waking up from a bad dream.
Not a bad idea
😂😂🤣🤣🤣 man plz let that be the start of the game.
he wakes up back to the beginning of the first game...
after this part 2 i probably would accept the bad dream stuff...
That's gonna be a masterpiece
The last of us was a good game. It's a shame they never made a sequel.
exactly...
You win RUclips for this comment.
Don’t disrespect part 2 like that
It's a shame whiney crybabies can't appreciate the whole story.
@@cun7uswhiny crybabies? You look like the one crying😂
They should have let us play as Tommy
Tommy was kicking a lot of ass
yep
So true!
The sniper moment where you wipe out Manny’s WLF team would have been SICK
Yup he's a total badass 🔥
yeah but tommy's a straight white male and that's not allowed in 2020s gaming
I can absolutely hear the passion through your voice for these characters and that's what saddens me the most. They did us so dirty. So dirty.
So dirty
So so so dirty 😞
Such a dirty naughty dog.
Solidrev becareful there. You might get called a bigot
so dirty, just dirty man. Ah, my head hurts.
“I struggled a long time with survivin’, but no matter what you have to find something to fight for.”
In Joel’s case, it was Ellie
You're still alive to me, Joel.
Rest in peace old man. You had it coming.
rip
Why did your IQ free fall in this game?
I just finished it. The ending is so unfulfilling, it makes you look back at the whole game and see it as pointless
In the end, it WAS all for nothing.
I understand
It doesn’t matter what Ellie’s does in the end. The outcome is the same, that’s the point of the story.
@@M0NTlCAT I think the problem a lot of people have with the ending is that Ellie brutally killed so many to get to that point, why would she not stop after her first brutal kill? And the fact that she was about to finish her goal of killing Abby I wouldnt have thought freeing Abby would free her mind, might as well just finish the job and avenge Joel. I agree Joel wouldnt have wanted Ellie to risk her life to avenge him, but she did risk it and more or less had the task completed so I think at that point she should follow through. I get that the end would be decisive but at the end of the day it still doesnt matter, the whole plot was a mess for me.
@@M0NTlCAT you are an absolute clown. Ellie even murders our friend Fat Geralt who punched Lev earlier and later caught Ellie in a trap. FAT GERALT didn't have to die. Neither did all of Fat Geralt's friends. But you are forced to kill them all. And when yo ufinally find Abby, you don't kill her?
:click: Noice.
I know, man. This game was just a way for Naughty Dog to make you feel depressed and empty. I played the whole thing myself and I felt such sadness. I hated playing as this "Abby" character. I felt so uncomfortable playing those parts of the game and there were a LOT of "Abby" content.
The flashbacks with Joel and Ellie was beautiful but so depressing because of the beginning of the game.
At the end and after completing this game I just felt EMPTY. Fucking depressing..
"But thats why it's so great! It makes you feel emotions!"
It felt like he wanted to punish us for liking the characters from the first one...
I agree this game is depressing. But the Last of Us was never very happily-ever-after to begin with.
Because you lack empathy and understanding of how a good story works.
That was the intention
The fireflies never told Ellie she could die, they were gonna move forward without her consent.
You right, but i think ellie was willing to do that.
Ellie wanted it
Joel didn’t. She also wasn’t qualified to give consent since she was what 13-14 yrs old?
Y'all are acting like this is real life society 😂😂 this is the zombie apocalypse and ellie was the cure to man kind. Even know I'm happy she was saved for the sake of the game, you can't blame the fireflies for not telling joel. Ellie would've literally saved the world
@@happytroll2477 lmao they didn't even allow him a goodbye . The vaccine ain't even 100% sure so a humane decision is to ask ellie and get her consent , Marlene wasn't that happy with killing ellie (so talking to ellie and getting her conscent) will ease marlenne's pain .
Also Joel got nothing , he delivered her to the fireflies and got no payment , all he got is a walk away , so expecting Joel to just go is just stupid (he's a smuggler ) he does work and gets paid for it ...
Imagine if they woke ellie up and gave Joel and ellie a goodbye ,
Ellie was wrong. She does mean something. She means everything to Joel
I was literally thinking that the second she said “My life was supposed to matter.” Or something to that effect. I wanted to Joel to say “It does to me.”
@@candidlyopinionated19 ffffuuuuucckkkk that would gonna be badass.
@@candidlyopinionated19 i wish he said that
Lmao imagine if Joel just said " first , the fireflies didn't give you a choice either , second ,the cure isn't even 100 % sure , you were a try out , if they failed, then you would've died for nothing ,and also you dont know if the fireflies are going to give the vaccine to everyone what if they keep it for their group and rule over the group ?! ,people will start wars to steal it from them ,, even if they wanted to save all the world how do you know they have enough ingredients to make thousands of vaccines ?!
It wasn't worth it""
TLOU fans: "Where did you go, psycho boy?"
Neil: "I felt like destroying something beautiful."
Sony: 1st rule of LoU2, Don't talk about LoU2
"Its under control...sir."
Fight Club LOL
All they had to do is have you start out with the direct continuation of the 1'st one, aka the flashbacks.
Then, you play as abby, mgs2 style. All the way to reaching joel and tommy.
Then play as ellie to the same moment, then THE cutscene. which i, would put a bit into the game. Like half way through.
You continue playing as ellie till the part where she leaves the map, where you cut back to abby and her finding the map and everything else unfolds the way it did. Except that abby and the last airbender get captured WITHIN the those guys' camp.
So then you play as ellie again (yeah i know it's all over the place) tracking down abby the way it did, but actually going out of her way to kill everyone who captured her. She sets her "free" only to kill her.
She fails, in fact i would have abby winning the fight. And just before abby strangles ellie something would happen to separate them (i don't know what, maybe a horde or scavangers or something i don't care at this point).
Boom! Abby escapes with airbender, ellie barely escapes with her life, losing everything and everyone.
Roll credits.
Although, just to note, i only did with what neil gave me within tlou2.
I would have NOT gone this way with the story at all.
@@TopKunt HAHAHAHAHHA that part of "the last airbender" that you said is very funny 😂🙈. Nah but I totally agree with you 👍🏼.
Compare this to Red dead redemption 1 & 2, they kill off beloved characters in such a perfect way
I'm playing red dead redemption 2 now. Oh my god the game is awesome. I'm not sleeping anymore. This is what a 10/10 should feel like.
Yeah, I've heard this a lot - and I used to say the same thing about how TLOU2's char's were killed off. But then I reflected on it and realised - this is *their* world -- and it's daaaaark fam. They don't get to die in a satisfactory way, a way that the player feels closure - not at all. It's an apocalypse, after all.
Abdul B lol give over. Tedious “realistic” elements really ruin the game
Even in the walking dead, negan and his crew killed off beloved characters, but you STILL tolerated it! He hated him, but still found him interesting and wanted to see how he ran his crew, and were they came from and back story. NO ONE gives a fuck about abbys team, theyre all lame and bland as fuck just for politics sake. Thanos killed spiderman and shit load of beloved characters thats been around since the 1970s, AND still, we wanted to see it through. This just shit forced writing.
@@ris2ani it's still a fictional world and the devs should have made better death for Joel, it was obvious that the fans would react this way.
you see the disgusting part is that in the 3 years ago trailer Joel appeared and said to Ellie "are you really willing to go through this?"
and in the 8 months ago one he appeared in the woods mid game scene and said "I'm not gonna let you do this on your own"
people cheered for that and thought Joel is 100%playable and not the person Ellies seeking revenge for and that's why the game got all the pre orders in the first place
and it turned out to be a marketing move and they literally spited on us Joel fans
so no matter what people say this game deserves the hate it got from the ppl.
They know people wouldn't like it so they had to go this route. Such a pathetic move.
You should play it.
The first game is why I got all the pre orders
Exactly! Fuck naughty dog, Bend Studio made Days Gone which is 100x better and gets no sequel but naughty dog gets to do whatever TF they want 🤦🏿♂️🤡
You're all a bunch of whiney crybabies.
FINALLY someone who understands Joel’s love and devotion to Ellie THANK YOU
It's like watching John wick and having him kill everyone but the Russian guy who killed his dog lol
LOL
@Megatron EX1127 I totally understand that it's a weak ass revenge story. Very unoriginal and weak writing. Maybe your the ass-hat that keeps drinking corporate liberal kool aid.
Megatron EX1127 THANK YOU, so many band wagoners can’t even understand the plot just willing to jump the dislike train for likes and other corroborators.
Nah dude let me state it even better.
It's like killing John wick 20% into the game then having his wife now kill everyone else down the rest of the movie,
Then she kisses and has sex with the dog killer because why not.
Then she goes home and remembers she wanted to kill John Wicks Dog Killer
She goes back *AGAIN* to get justice
Then at the end goes back home *AGAIN* and burns her house to forget absolutely everything that happened in her past because *FUCK REALITY*
@@davidlegkodukh6969 hahaha
My expectations were low and the game still fell short. The game is a disappointment because how It just crushed all the brilliance the first Last of Us had and built. A small example its how much more sexualized TLOU2 is compared to first one just because. The first one was so subtle with it like Joel's relationship with Tess, or how you can miss that Bill is gay but none of that matters because its about the bigger picture, the connections felt genuine in the first one.
I couldn't agree more
Good point
Facts 💯
Agreed
I didn't quite understand what I didn't like about TLOU2, but now I think it's exactly what you said. part2 never compares to the first game, despite the better graphics and good acting.
Joel is my favorite all-time character too. Absolutely loved the Joel/Ellie relationship. Killing off Joel was a bullshit move!!!
Because you don't understand good storytelling.
@@cun7usah yes, good storytelling when Joel automatically trust strangers after killing a guy he thought was faking being hurt in the first one
Dude that was heartfelt and evidence of how much a masterclass in story telling part one was.
Joel is (was?) one of the most sharpest and dangerous killers in fiction. One thing that I think you have nailed is the fact there was never a choice ever in Joel's mind in what he did in the part one. I don't think he even went over it in his head after. No hesitation. No doubt. No remorse at all; when it comes to protecting his daughter. An absolute singularity in intent and Obsession in seeing it through. In part one I liked Joel immensely already but when he SAVED Ellie AND killed Marlene AND then lied to Ellie without even a second thought or guilt I went from liking Joel to loving his character.
It wasn't just love that drove him. It was his shrewdness and wisdom. Proof that a good father or good elders have experience and insight sometimes totally lacking with youngsters.
Joel just didn't love Ellie. He understood the world and man's cruelty and capacity for evil. After what Joel had experienced in life he would have to be a fool to trust a strange doctors word that lobotomising Ellie would provide a guaranteed cure.
Hell look at the struggles that they are having with a cure for covid-19...
And that is with the worlds intact resources.
So Joel would have to be an idiot to trust in a bunch of post apocalyptic quack doctors with their quack resources that they are going to provide a vaccine/cure. And Joel is no idiot. And even if the cure worked then to give the control of that cure to someone like the Fireflies... Such people would be able to reshape the world in their image.. So Out of the frying pan and into the fire...
Lets be real. There is an agenda here. And story telling and consistency in character development was the casualty to that agenda.
The masterclass of part one was that we FELT what Joel was going through in a way that isn't possible in other mediums of fiction.
In truth Joel encompassed everything virtuous and worthwhile in a man.
Which is why naughty dog had to kill him...and they killed him in more ways then one.
But fairs fair. Its their character. They can do what they want.
But so can I.
Naughty Dog are dead to me.
You should play the game.
Joel didn't just doom humanity. He rendered the deaths of Sam, Henry, Tess and Riley pointless, killed Ellie's surrogate mother, Marlene and robbed Ellie of her choice in the matter.
Joel isn't a bad guy, but he isn't a hero. There could be lots of innocent people that needed a cure, but Joel took that away from them.
You completely misunderstood the morally grey nature of every character in the Last of Us universe, seeing how Tlou2 reinforces that idea and you just disregarded it because you think Naughty Dog is pushing some 'agenda'. Your critiques do not reflect the intricacies of how human beings act and the philosophy of ideology, purpose and identity. You are so hyperfixated on the superficial ideals that you expect of different groups of people, that's it's no wonder you are incapable of opening your mind to anything that challenges your principles and beliefs.
@@snoop4472 you saying he rendered their death pointless is a proff enough you didn't pay any attention to the first game,
First tess, she was basically doing all of that for the weapons and when she find out their is a possibility for a cure she toke it, although if she did know the cure would kill Ellie I don't think she will be ok with it.
Second, sam and henry, they have completely no interest in a cure whatsoever in fact they didn't even know Ellie was immune they just wanted to survive, here goes your second point.
And lastly Joel, all i can say if they put me in that same position as a father or as brother i would do it the same way that he did if not worse mind you, and if i find abby when there i will try to reason with her first and tell her what Ellie means to me, if she understood which i doubt she will then i will let her go, but if not then i will kill her too, and live with that because I do not give a fuck who thinks i am right or wrong so as joel.
@@snoop4472You gonna respond or are you gonna stay quiet because you just got proven wrong?
I'm sure they're really going to miss you 😢 I take it your crybaby ass won't be playing Part 3?
Alright now getting serious:
When your story needs flashbacks (specially long ones) and retcons, that automatically writes it off of being elite level cultured quality like Alan Wake, Max Payne 1 or Metro 2033 , but when you get a FLASHBACK INSIDE A FLASHBACK....who tf thought that was a good idea???
Not to mention...Joel ran a guy over because he could tell it was an ambush...but he'll turn his back and put himself in harms way in a room full of randoms??? plus give his real name???.
What a joke.
Yup very silly lol
I’ve heard so many delusional people try give rationalizations to why Joel would uncharacteristically do something like go into that basement and offer up his identity. Things like “he’s softened in the last 4-5 years” like wtf? People are actually trying to convince themselves this writing makes sense.
It was actually Tommy who gave up their name before, while they were fighting the horde, and Joel knew that Abby already knew his name so lying wouldn't have changed anything. Joel was already vigilant when they entered the chalet, instead Tommy seemed too relaxed. If it was someone's fault it was Tommy's which probably said their names without even thinking since they were fighting and couldn't think about this consequence.
Neo Rain the whole bull shit excuse that he got soft after being in Jackson makes no sense. You dont just forget survival skills that got you across the county, people with trust issues dont just suddenly become trusting of strangers because of a few years of peace. Its a bull shit excuse to say he would forget thoes skills.
Joel’s gotten soft after 5 years that’s how i look at it he droped his guard down.
Could you imagine a GOW sequel where Kratos dies in the first 2 hours like a side character and Atreus goes on a revenge spree then spares the killer??. Neil needs to retire from ND.
Thats the best analogy I know until this day, and then you have to play as one of the npcs kids in gow for 10hrs doing side quest like a bad dlc torturing the fans.
If only John Wick kills all those people to get to the son who killed his dog! Then by the end spares his life. The confronts the father and after beating him up let's the father live too and says "it wasn't just a dog!"
And then that's the end of the move! ._.
Yes. I was commenting the same thing days ago. If Kratos has to die, let him die in an epic battle. If Kratos died because he was surrounded by 5 draugr. I swear I would stop playing the game.
@@quangdao246 exactly. I usually thinks analogies are stupid but this makes perfect sense.
Didn't the new God of War allude to Kratos death at the end of the game?
This is straight-up facts. I just finished the game yesterday, the story is absolute garbage it actually breaks my heart. The gameplay overall is amazing but this just isn't TLOU :( I'll pretend TLOU 2 never happened.
I have a feeling by the time TLOU3 comes out in the future everyone will look back and think damn everything comes full circle.
Personally I loved it. Yes I hated some of the directions they took but the overall revenge story was awesome. If I had to change anything it’s playing as Abby for half the damn game.
We warned you but..Noooooo. Y'all had to go get it and support it
@@Who-Uhm-Cares I agree, the first half wasn't as bad I would go with it, but just the fact that you have to play as Abby for the second half of the game AND FIGHT ELLIE angers me, it caught me by surprise actually. Overall for a Naughty Dog game, and a sequel for such a loved videogame, TLOU 2 was personally disappointing to me
@@blackwhite2361 I stayed away from spoilers HAHA don't regret buying it but yeah damn. Lesson learned :/ this was garbage
they really gave Ellie a Pain arc smh.
she even spared her in the end like Nagato too
Joel's voice actor voiced Pain in the English Dub of Naruto.
@@mrslippyfist9155 Troy baker voiced pain? Wtf
@@belligerent2941 yup
*Didnt know eminem liked the last of us*
Hey Solidrev - nobody has summed up my feelings and frustration with this game like you just did. You exactly called it, man. It's physically painful to watch such beloved characters mishandled by Neil. I aint even got the words.
Yeah man it was brutal watching the Joel flashbacks
@@ExposingLames those parts honestly warm my heart a beat, and make me brake from the inside... i was thinking in my dad all the dam time on those flashbacks u_u
@@Yantonio7 Good seein you bro
The real Joel would engage against Abby the MOMENT she suggested going back to the lodge, he would knock her out, go back to jackson for reinforcements THEN hit the lodge
Then you miss the point of the ending of 1. Joel became soft for the greater purpose of Ellie. You can clearly tell the dude changed and mellowed out. However, if it was still in part 1. Yes. he would have been way more alert and would have not gone in.
That doesn’t make sense. He never knew she was a threat. Legit in that scenario fate basically decide his death. Nothing he can do about it.
@@squallthegriever became softer? He murdered the fireflies to save Ellie, she is the only one he softened for.
He wouldn't lose all his edge and make such a stupid mistake.
@@Who-Uhm-Cares Fate?? Bruh its a fictional story, the garbage ass writing decided his death.
@@EliWintercross keep telling yourself that. The fact he found a new home with his brother and sister in law and ellie. Yeah I'm sure that didnt soften him up after getting a bit comfortable. C mon man.
I feel like they should have given the players the choice to kill abby or not in the ending. would have made for a satisfying way to end it all in my opinion, because Idk about you, but if someone bites off my fingars like that I'm finishing them! no pun attended
LOL
SAME HERE MY G
That's what have also been saying. The choice about Abby should have been left to the player, not done automatically by Ellie
It wouldn't change much.
@@PerfectFitGE8 it definitely would have changed much
Whoever leaked the plot points saved me £50 and many wasted hours. This game gets the Series 8 of GOT and The Last Jedi treatment in my world.
It doesn't exist, I ain't even mad.. im dissapointed
ND: This it’s so wrong that the one doctor died!
This guy: Yeah it’s wrong; I killed way more than just one.
Love it
Bring Amy Hennig back.
I want Amy Hennig to make that new Star Wars game. She is a great writer and deserves to move forward.
I want Amy Hennig to make that new Star Wars game. She is a great writer and deserves to move forward.
I don’t want her to come back to a dog shit environment like Naughty Dog
It’s best that she stays away from a company that disrespected her and her story - Uncharted 4. She’s great and she deserves better.
Neil Druckman - Dutch Van Der Linde
Anita's Sarkeesian - Micah Bell
So fucking true😂😂😂😂
Nah man dutch was a real man don’t compare him to that incel lol
The Player - Arthur Morgan
Exactly 😂😂
“Misery, Misery, Misery, that’s what you’ve chosen. I offered you friendship and you spat in my face."
LMFAO
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I'VE SACRIFICED?!?!
@@marcusduck 60 $ ??
Fruitcake
Joel: "OUT AM I?!"
He remembers the names of most characters and Jesse is just an "Asian guy"? LOL
Shows how bad they wrote him...
It's Filthy Frank
氷Icyy how did they write him badly? The guy may have been simple, but not underwritten. He had honor and integrity, a wry sense of humor, and showed maturity beyond his years.
Bruh he went out in the worst way possible omg!!!
@@candidlyopinionated19 He suddenly died and never mentioned again. That's how he's badly written. It's not him, it's his role in the story that is bad.
“in my play through every last doctor in there was dead” hahahah same i was waiting for someone to say that
There's only one doctor. Everyone else was a soldier or assistant. Joel killed the only person who could've made a vaccine.
And to put the icing on the cake....they release the game 2 days before Father's Day
“This aint my play through” 😂😂😂facts tho
“Tommy has to go ask the boss.....aka his wife.” I was dying.....hahaha! I’ve been hoping the Reverend would speak on this.
The flashbacks were the only enjoyable part, but I felt like it was therefore a crutch......the only way to make the rest of the game tolerable.
Honestly as much as I hated playing as Abby, most of her parts were actually really enjoyable.
Kevin Harris - Haha, yeah it's funny but Tommy didn't actually ask his wife. He made the decision on his own to leave and left his wife a note to let her know what he was doing.
You dont have to play The Last Of Us multiple times to understand the connection between Joel and Ellie. We do have the right to complain about the events that take place in TLOU 2.
"The Asian guy" lmao
Jesse the knock of Walking Dead Glen
He was pretty much the only new character that was likeable
That's just show how shitty the writing truly is and how forgettable the characters really are
@@ethanwilkins662 Wasn't he that Sperm Donor guy?
It's 20 hours+... SR, I agree with you because they did Joel dirty.
I could listen to Rev shoot the shit for hours man.. He's good at talking to the camera, great stage presence..
Thanks my man
Abby is officially the CEO of "Strong Female Character" enterprises.
Specifically the CEO of "Poorly Written Strong Female Character" enterprises.
Abby is a dude
Strong woman
How they ruined and broke Ellie is hardest for me. She need some hug. Damn.
They broken our girl man she ain't deserve none of this 😭😭😭
LOL if there's ever a new Uncharted game the treasure they have to find is the real script for The Last of Us 2.🤣🤣😤😥
*Uncharted 5: Drake's Transition*
" Developers need us ". Man i cheered when you said that, been saying that for years!
Imagine going to see a Spiderman movie but spiderman dies in the first ten minutes and the rest of the movie is about aunt may.
LOL
Shit if its Marisa Tomei’s aunt May I might be interested
Imagine buying a videogame about Uncle Ben, but Uncle Ben dies in the first ten minutes and the rest of the game you play as his nephew Peter Parker.
What a retarded comment. it implies Ellie hasnt been the main start of the series. You play as Joel, and he is the protagonist but Ellie was if not is the main star since then. The whole narrative and focus of LoU is ELLIE. So no, that was a bad example.
Speaking of Spiderman, part 3 theme of revenge is much much better than Tlou 2. Well done from what I remembered.
I didn’t even bother buying the game and don’t plan to, was so hyped about it, but for once I was glad a game got leaked.
Same here, man.
Same here lol. I avoid the leak but still found out what happened on launch day
I was trying to avoid the leaks, but failed. I said i'm not buying it. But i was so hyped And so in love with the first game, i couldnt resist. I bought it. Fuck. Me.
Same I'm glad I didn't buy this game smh I was so hype for it😔
u missed out on something special. U'll never get that chance again. All you have now is justification of why its right to have missed out on a great game.
Better end:
Ellie doesn’t find Abby. She would have died by karma lol
fax
And Ellie could've had a somewhat normal life with Dina and the kid.
The last word of the game was "Yep." - It could've been "I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but I love you, kiddo." Or whatever, I know Joel isn't cheesy, but we've seen through his actions throughout the first game and the second game's flashbacks how much he absolutely loves Ellie like his own. Just some semblance that they parted ways on better terms than they actually did. He died not being able to repair that relationship when it was on the cusp of beginning to be fixed.
I always thought ND and the majority of their games were overrated, especially TLOU and Uncharted. I bought TLOU on sale for $9.99. Played it, got bored, didn't touch it for months. Beat it last week and yeah. That game hooked me. Joel and Ellie are beautifully crafted characters.
Bro brilliantly portrayed characters
@@ExposingLames indeed. I understand Ellie being mad at Joel but I don't understand why she couldn't see it from Joel's side. When she confessed that everyone left her but him when he really wanted to leave was also part of his decision to save her. The game goes to hard to separate them.
I'm the opposite I love TLOU it's a masterpiece but Uncharted isn't that great in my opinion still like it.
sol lol I mean yes and no the last of us and part 2 have great gameplay.
Play first game 2 years ago and was blown away at how good the story and characters were done. Read the leaks for the second game and knew what was coming. Part 2 doesn’t exist for me. Naughty dog as a studio is dead to me.
That’s Exactly how I felt at the end! It was totally unfulfilling and was waiting on Joel to say he loved her and never happened :(
After beating the game i ain't even gonna cap gameplay was amazing but story was ass, and if your playing a game like tlou2 story matters just as much as gameplay
You couldn’t have said it better 👏🏼 Gameplay is on par with the first, but the story is just a let down
If it’s a story driven game story should spear head and game play should be good agreed?
The gameplay is the same from the first the only new things you can do is jump and go prone
Gameplay being good means it might be a good multiplayer.
Alex O neill facts bro that’s why I’ll give it a 7/10 people who are saying it’s a 1/10 are forcing it I’ve played games that are worse than that 😂
He’s missing the point ...it’s not about ignoring the game and not playing it ...it’s about wanting to play the game because it’s an amazing storyline which many people think enjoy ...and people are upset that a franchise was just ruined at the hands of a disgusting game developer...they literally spat on Joel and they made a mockery of Father’s Day ...and people don’t like the game for a whole lot of other reasons ...smh
"If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again." This is Joel saying his love to ellie.
And if you notice ellie was taken aback and decided there she wanted to mend her relationship with joel. Abby tortured Joel brutally yes, but Ellie tortured Joel for years when she shunned him away, the kind of pain that is insignificant to a golf club.
Ellie wasn't seeking revenge at abby. She was furious she was robbed of the chance to mend her relationship with Joel just after she realised how much she hurt Joel.
When she let abby go it wasn't that she was forgiving Abby. It's the moment she forgave Joel.
I'm glad you appreciate the depressing bleakness of this story which is realism. Hope my comment gave you some insight cheers.
I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. She was furious that Abby robbed her of her chance to mend her relationship with Joel, which means she blames Abby for what happened, which means she wanted revenge. How does forgiving Joel in spirit have anything to do with her emotions toward Abby? Abby robbed her of something regardless of your logic but you're just rationalizing that it's all mutually exclusive when it isn't. I think Rev's point is more plausible, wherein she realized that Joel wouldn't have wanted Ellie to go on that revenge quest in the first place, and it was only when remembering that last conversation did she realize she wasn't actually honoring Joel's memory by killing people he wronged, hence she decides to do what he would have preferred she do instead of what she wanted to do (revenge). Too bad she isn't rewarded for this whatsoever and since Joel is dead she has nothing but sentiment left for this act, which is what makes it feel so painfully stupid. She already sacrificed everything and appeasing Joel's sentiment is meaningless and considering her bodycount by that point in the game most of everyone was under the impression she already understood this, hence why she was letting herself plummet so far down. What Ellie needed in order for that moment of sparring Abby to make sense was a realization that Ellie doesn't need Joel for her life to matter! That's why the two characters are so interesting, they emotionally needed one another in order to feel whole and what Ellie needed was something to make her whole in Joel's absence. Appeasing his sentiment does not bring her this, meaning the most depressing possible outcome has occurred by the end of this game, and it's because Ellie makes literally every emotional mistake she could possibly make and it's not even clear that she fully understands this by the time the credits roll. People are MAD because the characters were written to be DUMB in order to make the game as SAD as possible. And no story is worse than a sad story written poorly.
@@oinkleberry I agree that Joel wouldn't want ellie to get revenge, heck Joel wouldn't want ellie to go on patrols if he could choose (he was trying his best to delay ellie's patrol training). No one really is divided on this point.
I like the point you brought up how ellie doesn't need Joel for her life to matter, but it falls apart when you think she already decided that 4 years back when she revisited the hospital and told Joel she's done with him.
What I was trying to explain is that Joel could have died from a clicker or a heart attack and ellie would still be equally furious.
Her story is her dealing with the guilt of shunning Joel away for years only to realise how much Joel loves her the day before he dies.
Of course it makes obvious sense to just stay in Jackson. But humans make decisions based on emotions and ellie's was on a self destructive path. She could have taken up alcoholism or seclusion. But because of what abby did she was able to channel these emotions towards a goal.
I said before I like how you brought up she realised she doesn't need Joel for her life to matter. You kinda got the gist of it but to put it aptly it's her finally being able to let go of her guilt from Joel.
Hope this provides you more insight and understanding cheers
I think ellie shud really make abby drown. And then if ellie chooses to revive her back then ellie tries to do cpr then the story would be better. Shoot first ask later.
I think there’s some truth to that, but it’s not so cut and dry. My takeaway from the ending is that Abby could’ve been anybody; if not her, somebody with some justification would eventually kill Joel. Ellie, remembering their last conversation, realizes that Abby is irrelevant to her grief; Ellie isn’t upset just that Joel died, it was bound to happen; Ellie is upset that she didn’t better make use of the four years with him that she had.
The ending of the game, as flawed as it was, did manage to raise questions about how I live my life; about how so often, the focus of our lives is to get MORE time; but really, time is fleeting and beyond our control. Rather than thrashing at the forces of time, it’s best to accept that time we have and make the most use of it while we can. And so Ellie lets Abby go, because Abby was only a temporary problem but Ellie’s wasted years of not trying with Joel will never come back. It’s not a perfect message, but I see what they were going for.
Naughty dog... how the hell Ellie is going to leave the map on the ground leading to her hideout....
The way you talk about stories is amazing. A real pleasure to listen to you just being real.
Thanks Wasd3r
I love this guy!! Nothing but facts.
My favorite part is when he says, "They all have to burn! In my play through, I killed them all for trying to kill Ellie!!" I was like preach it brother!
This is why red dead redemption 2 story was 100 times better.
Playing as Abby I didn’t bother to give her upgrades or upgrade her weapons because I hated her
😂😂😂😭😂
When Joel is killed infront of Ellie and she begs for his life, I think that maybe right there Joel realised how much he meant to Ellie.
I'm pretty sure he was already done. He couldn't even get a word out
@@ExposingLames I disagree, he had a faint look in his eye that he knew....
@@krick_mufc9291 Could've been the look of just pain after he was beat that much, he was beat so bad by that point that the only feeling left was probably pain, because his head was already dented in so we most likely couldn't think straight
My only complaint is she didn’t use a baseball bat
LORD RAMSAY BOLTON I agree using a Golf club made it more of a meme. They probably wanted to change it up instead of being another Negan copy.
The gameplay, graphics are really good in my opnion, but this story is silly
It was terrible executed. Do you have a plan?
@@alissonlares2926 If this game had some outlaws and some banks to rob, would be 10/10 son
Its not in your opinion, people have to start to know, that talk about the graphics is like saying rain is wet, obviously the graphics would be insane, Uncharted 4 was the best of this generation, until now...
So far one of the best reviews I've ever heard. We certainly agree on this whole thing. Best regards.
I don't think they did it for shock value. Neil Cuckman already said he did what he did because of his own personal feminist SJW politics. This game was made because of a political agenda.
As for females in video games, one of my all time favorite games was Horizon Zero Dawn, including the DLC. That game was epic!! Aloy was an amazing main character in that game.
this man spoke to my heart when he said ' JOEL IS MY FAVORITE VIDEO GAME CHARACTER OF ALL TIME!' my bro i share that with you man
I thought it was hilarious that there was a guitar in every damn building.
Right? And this is 25+ years after the outbreak...
This is the most true video I’ve ever seen
Thanks Kyles
Cant judge a game if you aint play it. Watchin it aint the same as playin it. Rev still the man tho lol.
Come on Rev u know why they killed Joel. Tlou was one of my favorite games. An I refuse to play this game even tho there is a drought right now. Joel died because of his appearance
Is that that why they spared his brother?
I honestly have to disagree, he died for the sake of shock value, if he died because of his appearance then why did they write Abby getting analed by a white dude?
Pretty much every black person in this series that had any kind of relevance got bodied. None of you noticed that? Lol.
@@alphach1mp "spared". Off-screen he got condemned and thrown out of the house by his own wife and is a cripple. That's a very fitting end for a straight white male character, only bested by a golf club to the head.
@@EnigmaticJay Henry killing his brother and himself was hard on me but for real Isaac was under utilized. He seemed so badass and I feel like he would have been a great sort of boss battle but yea I feel like everyone except Abby got bodied.
Bruh how does someone say exactly what I’m thinking so perfectly
*Solidrev:* Facts coming at you at supersonic speed.
Damn man, I got teary eyed just hearing you talk about the ending with Joel and Ellie. I loved these two so damn much man, loved the first game. If it is any consolation, I think Joel knew man. I think Joel knew he meant the world to Ellie too. The reason I say that is because when Abby is bashing his head in, right before the final blow man, you see Joel look straight at Ellie. Ellie is pleading BEGGING for Joel’s life. I like to think he went out in peace knowing Ellie loves him, knowing Sarah was going to be welcoming him with open arms on the other side.
I feel like it would have been hell for joel as he probably thought they would do the same to her. But who knows with this writing. Could be anything
Watching abbys perspective made me want to play as Tommy cuz that dude can really snipe,
Watching mannys face getting blown off was so satisfying
YEEEEES it was lol
But Manny is awesome!
Didn't know it was Tommy lol ! Abby really deserves an other hole, she loves that. We saw it with Owen LOL
tommy's a savage in this game, dude went on a whole suicide mission alone lmao.
That part was so badass with that music. Made Tommy look like a Terminator.
You tell the truth: The object of the game is to suppress the "father image".
Yeah Star Wars too
Look at Han and Luke, both go away
"She Hulk comes in". LOL!!!!! Dude, I love the commentary. Great video!
from tlou A Mothers letter
My son... my little boy... I buried him today.
What did he do? Join a protest? And now they're labeling him a traitor. Fine. I'll show them what a traitor does. I've joined them, the rebels, the rioters. They gave me a gun, some bullets, and a mission. I won't survive this, but neither will they.
How many other fathers and mothers like me are out there? It's only a matter of time before the city falls. Let's go knock out the first brick.
Joel: Well, with that kind of thinking, no one wins...
So yeah Joel would not of wanted Ellie to do the revenge thing but the entire sequel stands or falls on the belief that Joel would of rescued Abby in the first place I dont believe he would of
that’s exactly what I believe that joel left the world without i love u from ellie or i forgive u , sad , almost alone ,and feeling he is useless, hopeless that he will live and he didnt know what will happen to ellie bec he died before pointing a gun on ellie
The Joel death reminds me of when Trevor kills Johnny in GTA 5
same rockstar fucked up on that johnny was badass they did him dirty and made him cuckold one of reasons i hated gta 5
Nowhere near as bad as Joel but it was still F'd up. Unpopular opinion...I HATED Trevor
I love Trevor he was funny rumors are he will come back for GTA 6 maybe a cameo.
Not really, rockstar knew how to do it tho, hell even if they killed niko we would have accpeted it. This like if Ciri became the new protagonist of the witcher and a new character kills Geralt in the first 2 hours of the game in a really dumb way
Yeaaaah exactly , I thought that guy was all bad ass when I played the dlc and then gets his head stomped out like a bitch.
Yeah I get the point of the ending "stopping the cycle of revenge" and yeah it is a big and a mature move but man... imagine Thanos collects all the infinity stones and then he says "nahhh I'm not doing it."
Or john wick has a flashback of his dog and say, "my dog would have never wanted this" and walk away. THE FUCK?
Dis quote sums up my reaction
Yea Rev - I did the same thing. I'm guessing I'm about the same age as you and I know the only time anyone listens to negative feedback isn't when your screaming that you hate it, or review bombing them, they only listen when you don't buy what they're selling anymore, that gets their attention real quick. Agree with EVERY point you made. Great video.
When the leaks was revealed the game was over. Thanks naughty dog for saving me money 👏👏🙌💯
The leaks are bullshit. You should play it for yourself.
@@philiom7724 Weren't the leaks accurate?
@@colemin2 no. The leaks said Abby was trans and the game was full of virtue signalling. Neither are the case.
@@philiom7724 The leaks were an overstatement.
WE DONT CARE ABOUT ABBY
Solidrev, much respect. I agree 100%. These developers need us, that how this works
True but best sony sales ever
RIP Joel, was the greatest father figure any game has ever seen he deserved better all he wanted was to protect her with his life. True father figure right there
That is what they hate. Father figure is what all Entertainment industry hates the most.
That's true, he did everything he had to in order to protect her daughter
@@alissonlares2926 true, Disney "Star Wars" is an infsmous example of that
DavGP1208 naw Kratos is better
Lol. More like a selfish psychotic killer.
Imagine this story line: Joel doesn’t get hoed. He joins Ellie on a quest to revenge Dina after proper time to fall in love with her as a player, or any other character that they establish as lovable. Toward the end we still realize that the vengeance cycle is pointless, but because the journey goes nowhere with a constant game of cat and mouse through the city, with comrades of both Ellie and the killer dying. During the climax of the game, the mission is jeopardized and Ellie and Joel have to attempt to make a rapid escape. In the struggle to run, Joel is bitten by a runner while he believes he is safe after just helping Ellie out of harms way. Then they must sit with the fact that because of Joel’s actions, he has no hope to live, for he sealed his fate the second he took Ellie from the fireflies. This plot would still allow them to show that there are consequences for the actions taken in this world, everything has a butterfly affect (like they tried to do with Abby’s vengeance). It also allows room to create a plot within it that revenge a means to an end, but a continuation of a never ending cycle
AbD YT this honestly is a better plot than what we were given. I accept this as canon
That’s literally twd season 1
This is better than the official story of the game lmao
They definitely shouldn’t have done Joel this dirty but at the very least if they are going to do that at least let the player exact their revenge. Maybe it would t be the best thing for Ellie but it would damn sure be satisfying for the player. At least give the option.
What's nuts is the graphics and world of this game have so much attention to detail. To have the story ruin all these years of work is insane. The writers were simply out of their minds.
thats gaming nowadays. story is not important, graphics are. and sjw pc agenda is aswell. remember ps3? ps2? those had quality games.
@@deathrager2404 There's no political bs sjw agenda man, the story just lacked like seriously who cares if a girl is jacked or if they're gay. If that's what you're focusing on why it's bad, actually look at the stuff that makes it bad
@@kanyumski - The lack of any good in people in this world makes it bad. The first game had little bits of humor and humanity but this sadistic story is just dark cloudy skies.
Literally everything you said was FACTS
The sentiment of making us play all of Abby's story before she kills Joel is the exact solution I had in mind.
You've earned a fan my friend.
16:37 THANK YOU! I feel like you are the only person on RUclips who understands why Ellie is upset that Joel lied to her and at the same time understands why Joel did what he did.
I've played TLOU1 so many times, there's no way I can stomach another playthrough of this (TLOU2). I can't even enjoy the encounters
FACTS 💯 I played The Last Of Us 4 or 5 times
Thank you for being so brutally honest !
12:56 This is all that needs to be said. A lot of people don't understand that for most of us, this is exactly the case. That's just us.
Damn. I think I know a guy who relates to the story about a guy and his daughter. ;)
I think I love you. Every girl wants to feel the safety and love that Joel provided. He learned to be okay in the world again. Ellie was forced to watch. She will never live in a world with joel in it again. Devastating. I just wish we got a hug at the end.
Thank you for making this video in the “raw” way you did. This was one of the few videos that I have seen where I was deeply emotionally connected to everything you said. It is so damn sad what had happened. I’m so angry that they chose revenge as the theme as it doesn’t add anything to the beloved themes of the first game. A big part of why we loved the first game was because of Joel and Ellie. Why not make the theme of the game about truth, forgiveness, and huamnity? People keep saying it over and over again but the character moments in the flashbacks with Joel and Ellie were so well done and emotionally charging and is what the sequel should have completely focused on. They were capable of so much good story writing and trashed it with something people don’t want to experience.
You kept it real.. I ain't gona play the game because there's only so much liberalism I can tolerate...
You mean satanic elite agendas
@@xxxgames4458 Seems like they are synonyms, to be honest.
Disgusting really, but they figured out another avenue to brainwash our kids.
I beaten the last of us the original on grounded... but when I was done, I couldn't be bothered with a New game plus mode, it would just skimp the grounded experience for me.
Oh, have I been waiting for this video.
Hope you enjoy
Solidrev Always enjoy your videos big guy, you’re a hidden gem on RUclips.
You sir are a legend, exactly what I’ve been saying, not giving my money to ND. Developers needs us, we don’t have to play the shit games
It's not a shit game at all.
So I take it you won't be playing another TLOU game again?
@@cun7us won’t be playing Future games, I have played part 2, gameplay great, graphics amazing, story execution was poor, don’t have an issue with Abby or Joel dying. My issue is I was mislead by ND, the trailer had Joel “you think I’d let you do this on your on...” was actually Jesse, whistleblowers calling out the work conditions etc
Man you're missing the boat. You should've played this and narrated as you went! That would've been one hell-of-a commentary. Finally someone willing to say what needs to be said! Well said bud!
Bro I wouldn’t wish that on him I could barely get thru it