You'll find a happy balance of speed vs power use pretty quick. And you'll become much better sailors from the desire to conserve. Watching Uma navigate the narrow fiords of Norway is a prime example of what can be done. Tammy looks like she has been herding a boat all her life.
You got me excited to go all Electric. I don't want to be a diesel mechanic! I see so many more times those break down. And they work on them all the time. When I get my boat I will go all Electric. Thanks!
To answer the questions about if you have enough power from the electric motor. it is a defiantly a YES. As long as you have it set up correct and its cooling your in great shape. I had one on my 70 Bavaria and it works fine.
Hi I amazing at your electric boat Coversion and the way your power on the boat is made. Following Sailing uma and there electric Pearson 36 and the motor they use which is cool taken that there up in Svalbard where the solar is a little dim. Brendan IRL
Love all your videos and positive attitude. Boats are all about managing resources. Thank you for stating that so well and that with solar you will eventually "fill your tank" and you can't do that with diesel.
You are correct, it doesn’t matter what propulsion you have, you need to manage it. I am not a fan of electric if I need a gas generator as a charging source for the electric. I just don’t like gasoline on board. I feel Diesel is much safer. I know there is a lot of ongoing work on electric engines and I am more interested in the regen aspect of it. I think think it can be a game changer in being totally off grid.
We do have a diesel generator. It is 5kw, so not as efficient for small things. We will unfortunately have to carry gas aboard anyway for the outboard.we are hoping the solar will cover the bulk of the maintenance on the batteries, but we will see. 3 years ago lithium batteries were out of most peoples price range, now they are doable. Think of where electric propulsion will be in 3 to 5 years. Your game changer will likely be reality.
We just completed the install of a QT20 on our 40' sloop. Ours is air cooled so I installed long 3/8" stringers to aid in heat sinking and dissipation. You might consider a magnetic pump, like the ones used for marine air conditioners, and bypass or override the impeller. Wired to the motor relay, it would only circulate when the key is on. They use little power and, being magnetic, last for eons.
I'm currently stuck in the Erie canal, waiting for them to repair the bank in a section. So they can then increase the depth. Had to carry 40 gallons of diesel to top off my tank. Was wishing I had an electric motor with solar about then. Lol
I bet that motor will push the boat faster than the hull is rated for if you let it eat, and as long as you have enough solar panels and a back up generator you will have plenty of power. A electric motor in a sailboat makes good sense and you're going to love it.
I believe it will as well, but you are right, it will have to eat! The energy trade off for passing hull speed may not be worth it. We are curious to see what the solar will do.
You got guts my friend heading to sea with a first generation electric motor is a gutsy move. Just remember when u need to get out of a jam that motors is what your gonna rely on
Truth be told the motors have been around for awhile. The cooling system design is what is first generation. I should check with the manufacturer and see how easy it is to go back to air cooled if needed. So far the motors out there have been performing well
Air cooling is way way less efficient , you will not get the same power from the engine. Stay with the water cooling , think about a freshwater flush if motor will sit for a while I doubt the internal are as robust as a diesel against corrosion !
I agree with you on management of resources, but what worries me is once sailing a huge storm comes about out of no where can you outrun it or make safety with electric/battery powered considering children are now a factor as well your own safety…is why I prefer diesel/gasoline as the power plant…your thoughts on this much appreciated…
As a general rule, at 8 knots maximum speed sailboats don’t outrun storms. Heavy weather tactics like heaving too, drogues, etc have been used by sailors for years. Our boat is designed to take full advantage of these things.
@@Spoondrifters reason I asked is I just watched sv Delos go through some ruff weather and 55 knots slamming a pole against there vessel my question is of concerns no disrespect intended thank you for the reply…
No disrespect was felt. It is a good question. More modern designs have increased the comfort of living space at the trade off of heaving too. With these boats running makes more sense, but they still don’t outrun it, just run with it until it is over. We definitely need to learn how to do some of this stuff for sure, which can be scary as heck because the only way to learn is go out in heavy weather! Of course Delos is a great boat designed for heavy weather. I will have to watch that episode too. Thanks for sharing.
I think you guys are great, and proud of the progress ya'll have made. If you're traveling the ICW in Louisiana some day, stop in Intracoastal City and we'll treat you to some good Cajun food !
Just wait for full sail. 20 knots winds. Equal 8.475 knots or 9.73 miles per hour. Fun fun. Looking great. My 462 makes about 7 knots or more with original motor.
I’m sorry, that impeller design is terrible. I built my own electric motor for my sailboat and the fix is easy. When my main power solenoid energizes it applies power to an electric motor that circulates water. It draws very little energy as not much flow is required. Pumps are easy and cheep. I can’t believe they complicated it so much
We are going with it for awhile. But your idea is likely a way better option. The impeller company says the material it is made of is not designed to switch directions. We will see how long they typically last.
@@Spoondrifters Good luck. I do like your overall engine design, just not that impeller. If you use a live well pump the pump will alway be on when your controller is on and is very easy to service. It can fail, but you have seen the manual impeller can fail as well.
Late to the party. I thought the advantage of an impeller was it is self priming whereas a pump can't run dry at all. Still I was surprised not only by the impeller but by having a through hull for an electric motor...
I think electric motors are the future of sailboats, some manufacturers are selling new models with it as an option. If I went that way, I would probably have to do what you have, a large diesel genset as backup for those times when you might need to motor for extended periods. I think you guys will find that once you get everything ironed out, you will only run the genset occasionally. Best of luck with the rest of the project!
Globe Marine makes a blue impeller that is three times more durable and lasts three times as long. It is listed as being able to run dry for 90 seconds. I don't know if there is one that will fit your engine, but it might be an improvement. I replace mine when I think it is in the two times as long range. It saves a lot of hassle.
Looks like a typical Oberdorfer pump style impeller to me. They aren't meant to change directions, also you should be putting some plumbing grease in there with it. How many kV of solar do you guys have? Insurance companies generally frown upon gasoline powered generators running on the deck, you may want to check your policy. I know my former policy through Lloyds had something pertaining to them listed.
Yes, that reversing pump impeller situation needs to go. It's just not how they are designed to work and a major Achilles heel issue. A small independant pump, or two for that matter, if you want redundancy.... All the best, Michael.
@@Spoondrifters on 29 years old owning Luna Sea I’ve spend $40K on the engine and maintenance. That not including fuel and oil. I’d go electric in a heartbeat. The only positive thing I can say about a diesel on a boat is it will make you a better sailor because it is not a question of if it will fail. Only when it will fail. 😊⛵️
Well done guys on your first move. I,personally don’t understand why people knock electric engines. The only time you really need an engine is in and out of moorings,slips and anchorage. That’s why sailboats have sails. Ok sometimes you’re against the wind but this can be minimised by good planning. Wind shifts so use it and if you get little wind?what’s the rush,it’ll pick up eventually.
That style impeller was never designed to go two directions! I would carry like 6 extra all the time. Everytime those rubber blades flip direction its getting weaker! And you can't ever run it dry, Mercury Outboard's use the exact same style and Mercury mechanics say running the impeller without water for more than 10 seconds to replace
That is what the pump manufacturer said as well. We have extras now. We will watch it to see how it performs and do something different if if it doesn’t.
I'm very happy to see someone else going electric. I'm in the process of adding electric to my sailboat. I'm doing this piecemeal and I'm a little nervous about if I have sized correct. Can I please ask a couple questions? Size motor in kw? Weight of boat and battery size? I'm 6 tons with a 12 kw motor and 300 amp hr at 48v. My I ask what you think? BTW, I also went through that Texas power debacle. Sucked.
Sounds like your motor is sized perfectly. I don't know what the hull speed of your boat is but 6-7kts is common. If you're 'taking it easy' and getting 5 1/2 knots, then you're doing pretty great!
Impellers are one of the fastest things to go bad because they are just thin rubber and are constantly bending back and forth. Sailors should always have a ziplock bag full of replacements.
My Honda generator 2000 has a overload button which you reset if it overloads, its the latest model. I am not sure if older models have it but you can check. As for the impeller setup, in my opinion it sucks and you should get rid of it asap. those impellers are not made to be used that way, regardless you have a nice setup with the electric motor and a standby generator.
The Yamaha has an overload button also. You have to shut it down and restart it. When I start it back up the overload is fine, but the green light for ac is not lit up and nothing works at the plug.
@@Spoondrifters You have to determine if your gen is an inverter type of normal. New models are inverter type which produce dc and convert into ac, but older ones produce ac directly. I also have an inboard mase marine generator which is currently giving me the same trouble and the engine runs fine but no ac current, my electrician says it probably is a faulty exciter. I am no electrician but maybe this could some way help you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but why even do a water cooled electric motor? For the short run times or low RPMs you need on a sailboat, air cooled should be the way to go?
Typically yes you are correct. I suppose it is for the times when you need more. We do plan on doing some ICW trips, like Rockport to Kemah, which will require a lot more motor use. In that case keeping it cooler will also keep it more efficient.
S/Y Rain Finger: We are an electric Bristol 35.5 sailboat, applauding your decision to go electric, realistically motoring 30 miles down the ICW before anchoring for the night.
We still have a lot of wiring left. We work on that on rainy days and do outside stuff in good weather. We want to leave for Houston toward the end of August.
Yes it has a Kohler 5kw diesel generator. It is still there but with the interior work the diesel tank is not in place right now. It should. Push the boat at about 4.5 knots.
Looking great. Todd you tend to be very detail oriented. You will figure this out. A impeller with smaller fins perhaps? A reversing impeller isn’t rocket science. Paddle wheel technology.
Keep up the good work! And will you add wind generators/turbines to help charge your batteries? I also watched where Delos or someone had a line they dropped in the water that would turn and help charge the batteries, can’t remember what they called it? But all those could add up to unlimited energy and the generator just becomes for emergency situations only.
That is the plan. Wind generation is on the list of possibilities, but as I understand it is not fantastic. The other is a hydro generator. Our prop does much the same thing although is likely less efficient. Hydro generators (good ones) are pricey too.
I watch this one channel called James Condon He show repairing generators. He might have a video that can help. As for electric over a diesel or gas motor I have seen both in use. But I never seen an electric boat go to far off shore. It is up to you but until your motor proves that it will work for you I would stay close to where I can get help.
I will check him out. Thanks for the tip. As fats as electric boats off shore Uma crossed the Atlantic, and Rigging Doctor crossed it twice. Of course, they don’t motor the whole way.
@@Spoondrifters Dan’s in Norway at the moment above the Arctic circle pushing Uma to her limits. He knows in the sunny climates solar is ok to run all the boats needs but northern areas are challenging,only producing 1/4 of what generated down south.
Does the pump provide cooling water to the motor turning in both direction then exit the boat as a normal diesel or flow in a loop staying within the motor?
Forward brings in fresh seawater and ejects it overboard after the heat exchanger. Reverse just recirculates water in a loop through the pump only. The antifreeze in the heat exchanger uses an electric pump to circulate it on demand. You would have to reverse a long time to get the antifreeze too hot to cool the motor somewhat.
Watched your family/boat redo for a few years, totally enjoying ever event. You sir are an expert in many fields motivating many to do the same thing! Thanks for all the HOW TO DOOOS! JOINUP FANS AND GET THE MARINA QUEENS IN THE WATER.....
Have you thought about hooking up an alternator to your engine I know it's electric what you could do is get a split pulley stick it on the shaft with a belt ran to the alternator so when the engine is running and the shaft is spinning the alternator is charging the batteries
Interesting concept. I’m not sure what the overall gain would be with the increased drag created by the alternator. I believe regen typically costs about a knot in speed. I’m pretty sure the gain would be an overall net loss in this case.
I believe a Doctor visit may be in your future, as in the Rigging Doctor. They were building their own lithium batteries. P.S. I also see a tack welder and a soldering gun in your future! Great stuff! Glad I found your channel! Subbing and thumbs up all the way!
..... laughing ... Hey Todd! that would be pretty boring if it worked perfectly the first time and robbed you of experimenting and having fun solving the challenge .... love your sceptic stopper with "managing recourses" analogy, well done .... sure there are the diehards that won't have a genie for backup, that would not be me ... so the inter costal is on the horizon!! .. get the girls excited about if you are going to fit under the bridges .. smilin ....... hey Tammy and Todd thx for sharing .. and as always .. never stop dreaming, just dream bigger .. have fun be safe, save our oceans ....
Do you have a website where frequent questions are answered? I am wondering, how big is your boat? What is the size (KW) of your electric engine? What did the electric engine cost? Just subscribed to your channel and will definitely follow. I am converting my sailboat to electric also!
Your battery and motor with solar , you also have to run the boat , auto pilot,fridge, cooking fridge for a big family, cooking gas or electric , One of the biggest names in cruising Jimmy Cornell's, built an all electric boat to cruise . And it failed . Having a diesel generator installed ,
As I recall Jimmy was relying on regen for his needs and it wasn’t enough. We will have around 1800 watts of solar. We also have a 5kw generator (diesel) that came on the boat, although we want to limit is use as much as possible, then we have the 2000 watt suitcase generator for more common use. We have a seperate 600ah at 12v house bank as well. It will take some time to balance all the needs and inputs to fill in any gaps. There is no perfect system right now. We need Doc Browns “Mr. Fusion” power generator.
@@davidwarnes5158 That’s why I prefer channels like Uma and not many others. They show the minus as well as the plus and explanation and reasons behind the decisions they make. And looking for solutions outside the box is always a good thing. I watch sailing channels,because being disabled it’s something I used to do and really enjoy. I was given a mirror dingy for me 12th birthday as our house backed onto a large river and spent many years sailing that river. But sadly no more. What I can’t stand are the endless stream of content out there who think it’s just an excuse to show bikini clad rear end shots.
i sumbled with this video i always thought an electric motor is somuch better for the boat. what's your battery size ? isthere any detailed video on the setup out there?
The battery size is 600ah at 48v lifeline AGM. Heee is a playlist with a few videos on the motor setup. ruclips.net/p/PL46O6n3uQpDdZvct-u9S1REKTvxhOC-KB
@@Spoondrifters it would, it could use both under the waterline sea cocks. Both would be intakes as well as outgoing. Just depends on what way the impeller was turning
There’s a simple Kilowatt to Horsepower equation. Here’s a link www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/kw-to-hp.html Our Morgan 462 ketch had a Perkins 4-236 which was rated at 80 hp @2800 RPM. It was more than capable of powering the boat. What is your electric motor rated for in KW?
@@Spoondrifters then your electric motor will generate 40 Horse Power the Perkins 1-154 was rated at 42.5 KW at 3000 rpm. So your the same power electrically as you were via diesel. But your low end torque (slow speed power) is much higher with the electric vs the diesel.
Do you know why the generator dropped offline and did not come back online? I'm thinking of a clutch arrangement so the pump always rotates the same direction. Let me think on it.
@@Spoondrifters If your portable generator is running but not generating power, this module failure automatic voltage regulator (AVR). It is NOT hard to fix. Let me know if you need help with that.
With no real data yet, but projections show 6 knots would be about 19-20kw of power and we would get about 2 hours with batteries alone. I’m not sure on the rpm’s. On a diesel the rpm gauge is how fast the motor is spinning, not how fast the prop is spinning. I think our motor is done the same way but I’m not sure how the gear reduction relates from one to another.
@@Spoondrifters with your generator if it goes through a battery charger , that trickle feeds into the batteries , so ? Can it keep up with use . ? Solar is different, you can always use quicker that put back in, maybe solar is good but no good in the dark,
I don't like that the impeller changes rotation. It seems problematic. The manufacturers need to design a better system. The impeller should rotate in the same direction at all times. It appears they need to redesign it with a gear box or a hydrostatic pump to drive the impeller/pump. Also, does the system have a sensor that alerts you when the pump is no longer circulating the coolant? A simple inline flow sensor/sensors would do. A temperature gauge is useless, by the time it registers "hot"... damage may have already been done.
It certainly is not ideal. The benefit of it being a simple mechanical pump may be outweighed by the possible failure of the impeller.the motor has a temperature sensor and will cut back power before damage occurs. The motors are really efficient and don’t need cooling until over about 30% power so that is good. We will watch this setup and may switch to something different if it fails to perform.
i think your e'motor is the bees ass :-)) find a great few days of good weather, ie sun and cruise at avg speed until the engine dies. charge up(sun) and come home :-) damn i love comments :-)
You have discovered a major flaw in your propulsion system that requires addressing sooner rather than later. As you discovered that direct drive impeller pump is a major design flaw and there can be no guarantee the impeller will even last a year under those operating conditions. Talk to Electric boat and ask if they have an off the shelf electric driven pump. It does not need to move much water. On the powering side, the first step is to calculate your hull speed (Theoretical displacement hull speed is calculated by the formula: velocity in knots = 1.35 x the square root of the waterline length in feet). Then see how much power from your meters (in zero wind zero current) that your motor is consuming at hull speed. You should achieve hull speed with say 25% power remaining to spare (to cope with weather). Compare that power consumed with the rating of the engine you removed for interest only. If you deplete your lithium down to say 20% you are going to be bobbing about for a long time for solar to top up - days!
We are definitely going to watch and log time on the impeller. An electric pump is a great option. Electric Yacht has not had problems with boats with the reversing upgrade, but it definitely is a higher maintenance issue. Great advice on checking out the power of the motor! We will give that a try.
Interesting numbers. Highly appreciated. When you talking about 382 rpms consuming 0.12 kw, IMHO it's not really representative. Boat is not moving. Real data, would be the sheet of your speed (1-8 kt) over the energy consumption. Together with your prop parameters and the boat displacement it will give us very useful material for thinking. Thank you
Not very impressed with electric yachts design of pump (for reverse) . Glad you have a revised set up. I have the same old diesel as somebody who ran his Diesel using an electric water pump for years. (Video available). This would have been a much simpler system for electric yacht and they could have included a simple on/off controlled by a temp sensor to save power. I,like everyone else, hates the rubber impeller pumps and getting an electric you would think you could get away from that bug-a-bo on diesels , I guess not! They are cheap , and efficient when they work but a PTA when they don't! If you can get 5-6 knots at low/mid power draw you are doing very well , more for short bursts would be amazing for such a heavy boat. Keep the hull and prop super clean to not waste that energy. What happened to the onboard generator? Comments 😁😁😁 👍🎉Cheers. Warren
Thanks Warren. I agree on the design. We will likely switch to an electric one soon. We still have the 5kw onboard generator, it’s just not hooked up yet.
Even if you run a generator you still have power management problems since you have a limited supply of petrol on your boat. As much as I like the idea of electric the technology is not there and may never be barring some breakthrough. Solar Panels are approaching their theoretical maximum efficiency which means you physically cannot have enough Solar fitted to your yacht. If you want to drop 2 million dollars on a silent yachts cat covered in them and with a shedload of lithium they will tell you it gives you a 60 knot range at 3 knots! They even come equipped as standard with 2 gensets. The reason that electric boats do not have the same range as electric cars is that once a car has accelerated to cruising speed the motor only has to overcome rolling resistance and air friction it can even regenerate power when the brakes are applied whereas a boat has to continually push all the water out of the way which is why range goes down as you increase boat speed.
That is true about boats. They are never able to roll friction free. I think the breakthrough technology will come, and may not be in the forms we think. Maybe Doc Browns Mr. Fusion.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Really looking forward to seeing the Family under-sail or cruising the ICU - I want to see some big smiles - Cheers
Us too!
You'll find a happy balance of speed vs power use pretty quick. And you'll become much better sailors from the desire to conserve. Watching Uma navigate the narrow fiords of Norway is a prime example of what can be done. Tammy looks like she has been herding a boat all her life.
Uma is a great example for sure. Thanks Scott, and I think Tammy has been herding her whole life!
You got me excited to go all Electric. I don't want to be a diesel mechanic! I see so many more times those break down. And they work on them all the time. When I get my boat I will go all Electric. Thanks!
Feel free to ask questions when you do. We are happy to help where we can.
To answer the questions about if you have enough power from the electric motor. it is a defiantly a YES. As long as you have it set up correct and its cooling your in great shape. I had one on my 70 Bavaria and it works fine.
That is nice to know. We are looking forward to testing this out fully.
You folks good at figuring out things, using your knowledge.
Thank you Steve.
Thanks guys!
Our pleasure!
Hi I amazing at your electric boat Coversion and the way your power on the boat is made. Following Sailing uma and there electric Pearson 36 and the motor they use which is cool taken that there up in Svalbard where the solar is a little dim. Brendan IRL
Uma was part of our inspiration
Todd is absolutely right! Thanks for the episode
Thank you Nena.
I'm super happy for you guys! On the water using your SV... This is a great adventure!
Yes, a grand adventure
Love all your videos and positive attitude. Boats are all about managing resources. Thank you for stating that so well and that with solar you will eventually "fill your tank" and you can't do that with diesel.
Thank you.
I love your approach to dealing with the electric propulsion 👍🏼
Thanks Dave.
Beautiful & BZ! (just go practice your docking until your are bored stiff!) Peace!
you are right. Not bored yet so we will keep working on it!
@@Spoondrifters You are all doing more than great! Sailing is a life that brings learning, peace, and such joy!
hey guys! I like it when i have a day off AND there is a new spoondirfter video.
So do we! Enjoy.
throw the bell over the side!!
That would be sad!
You are correct, it doesn’t matter what propulsion you have, you need to manage it. I am not a fan of electric if I need a gas generator as a charging source for the electric. I just don’t like gasoline on board. I feel Diesel is much safer. I know there is a lot of ongoing work on electric engines and I am more interested in the regen aspect of it. I think think it can be a game changer in being totally off grid.
We do have a diesel generator. It is 5kw, so not as efficient for small things. We will unfortunately have to carry gas aboard anyway for the outboard.we are hoping the solar will cover the bulk of the maintenance on the batteries, but we will see. 3 years ago lithium batteries were out of most peoples price range, now they are doable. Think of where electric propulsion will be in 3 to 5 years. Your game changer will likely be reality.
We just completed the install of a QT20 on our 40' sloop. Ours is air cooled so I installed long 3/8" stringers to aid in heat sinking and dissipation. You might consider a magnetic pump, like the ones used for marine air conditioners, and bypass or override the impeller. Wired to the motor relay, it would only circulate when the key is on. They use little power and, being magnetic, last for eons.
Great advice. Enjoy that motor.
I'm currently stuck in the Erie canal, waiting for them to repair the bank in a section. So they can then increase the depth. Had to carry 40 gallons of diesel to top off my tank. Was wishing I had an electric motor with solar about then. Lol
Yeah if you have time the sun is free.
What part of the canal is down? I will be on it soon. Going from Seneca to Oswego. Thanks!
@@ryanjermyn4299 It is reopening tomorrow 7/29 for boats drafting less than 7ft. Between lock 30 Macedon and lock 29 Palmyra.
I bet that motor will push the boat faster than the hull is rated for if you let it eat, and as long as you have enough solar panels and a back up generator you will have plenty of power. A electric motor in a sailboat makes good sense and you're going to love it.
I believe it will as well, but you are right, it will have to eat! The energy trade off for passing hull speed may not be worth it. We are curious to see what the solar will do.
Love the concept.
👍
You got guts my friend heading to sea with a first generation electric motor is a gutsy move. Just remember when u need to get out of a jam that motors is what your gonna rely on
Truth be told the motors have been around for awhile. The cooling system design is what is first generation. I should check with the manufacturer and see how easy it is to go back to air cooled if needed. So far the motors out there have been performing well
Air cooling is way way less efficient , you will not get the same power from the engine.
Stay with the water cooling , think about a freshwater flush if motor will sit for a while I doubt the internal are as robust as a diesel against corrosion !
My first thought about the impeller working in both direction would be to have the exit below the waterline with a strainer.
That actually may work. You wouldn’t be able to look overboard to see it pumping, but it surely could work.
Now I know why I kept hearing bong-bong-bong, I was thinking it was someone in the marina with a LOUD bell clanging.
😂
I agree with you on management of resources, but what worries me is once sailing a huge storm comes about out of no where can you outrun it or make safety with electric/battery powered considering children are now a factor as well your own safety…is why I prefer diesel/gasoline as the power plant…your thoughts on this much appreciated…
As a general rule, at 8 knots maximum speed sailboats don’t outrun storms. Heavy weather tactics like heaving too, drogues, etc have been used by sailors for years. Our boat is designed to take full advantage of these things.
@@Spoondrifters reason I asked is I just watched sv Delos go through some ruff weather and 55 knots slamming a pole against there vessel my question is of concerns no disrespect intended thank you for the reply…
No disrespect was felt. It is a good question. More modern designs have increased the comfort of living space at the trade off of heaving too. With these boats running makes more sense, but they still don’t outrun it, just run with it until it is over. We definitely need to learn how to do some of this stuff for sure, which can be scary as heck because the only way to learn is go out in heavy weather! Of course Delos is a great boat designed for heavy weather. I will have to watch that episode too. Thanks for sharing.
Watch a few of sailing Uma videos. They have alternate charging systems, especially solar. When are you installing your solar power.
We watch all of Uma.
I think you guys are great, and proud of the progress ya'll have made. If you're traveling the ICW in Louisiana some day, stop in Intracoastal City and we'll treat you to some good Cajun food !
Oooh yum. Sounds like a plan.
Electric is the future. With as often as ppl use the engine, electric is the right choice. May want a bigger genset. Love the setup
Thanks Eric.
Yes let's carry say 50 gallons of gasoline instead of 50 gallons of Diesel .... 🥳
If electric power is the future why rec a larger genest?
that bell would drive me nuts
👍
Just wait for full sail. 20 knots winds. Equal 8.475 knots or 9.73 miles per hour. Fun fun. Looking great. My 462 makes about 7 knots or more with original motor.
Thanks for the info
I’m sorry, that impeller design is terrible. I built my own electric motor for my sailboat and the fix is easy. When my main power solenoid energizes it applies power to an electric motor that circulates water. It draws very little energy as not much flow is required. Pumps are easy and cheep. I can’t believe they complicated it so much
We are going with it for awhile. But your idea is likely a way better option. The impeller company says the material it is made of is not designed to switch directions. We will see how long they typically last.
i agree a simple pump would be so much safer and easy to change of ot ever fails
Agreed, very poorly designed, but easily repaired.
@@Spoondrifters
Good luck. I do like your overall engine design, just not that impeller. If you use a live well pump the pump will alway be on when your controller is on and is very easy to service. It can fail, but you have seen the manual impeller can fail as well.
Late to the party. I thought the advantage of an impeller was it is self priming whereas a pump can't run dry at all. Still I was surprised not only by the impeller but by having a through hull for an electric motor...
I think electric motors are the future of sailboats, some manufacturers are selling new models with it as an option. If I went that way, I would probably have to do what you have, a large diesel genset as backup for those times when you might need to motor for extended periods. I think you guys will find that once you get everything ironed out, you will only run the genset occasionally. Best of luck with the rest of the project!
We are on the same page with that plan. Thanks for watching.
Globe Marine makes a blue impeller that is three times more durable and lasts three times as long. It is listed as being able to run dry for 90 seconds. I don't know if there is one that will fit your engine, but it might be an improvement. I replace mine when I think it is in the two times as long range. It saves a lot of hassle.
I’ll look into it.
If you have the old furler sails put them on just for the option 👍
Yes for sure
I think I would change to an external water pump for the motor cooling.
Yeah, it’s something we have been considering doing but for now it’s working well.
Looks like a typical Oberdorfer pump style impeller to me. They aren't meant to change directions, also you should be putting some plumbing grease in there with it. How many kV of solar do you guys have? Insurance companies generally frown upon gasoline powered generators running on the deck, you may want to check your policy. I know my former policy through Lloyds had something pertaining to them listed.
You are correct. We have about 1.6kw of solar at this point. Not hooked up yet, but soon.
some good info. two sides of Evey coin reliability in any system is maintenance and planing time will tell. good video
I like the two sides to the coin analogy
Yes, that reversing pump impeller situation needs to go. It's just not how they are designed to work and a major Achilles heel issue. A small independant pump, or two for that matter, if you want redundancy....
All the best,
Michael.
That truly seems to be the consensus.
I think your electric motor is going to work very well. Everytime I do maintenance on my diesel I wish I had one.
That is one big part that convinced me as well.
@@Spoondrifters on 29 years old owning Luna Sea I’ve spend $40K on the engine and maintenance. That not including fuel and oil. I’d go electric in a heartbeat. The only positive thing I can say about a diesel on a boat is it will make you a better sailor because it is not a question of if it will fail. Only when it will fail. 😊⛵️
Wow! That is a few boat bucks! We hope this will make us better sailers too, because we will use the motor less.
Well done guys on your first move.
I,personally don’t understand why people knock electric engines. The only time you really need an engine is in and out of moorings,slips and anchorage. That’s why sailboats have sails. Ok sometimes you’re against the wind but this can be minimised by good planning. Wind shifts so use it and if you get little wind?what’s the rush,it’ll pick up eventually.
I know, right! Patience is one of the keys, good planning is another.
Cool hope see out at sea one day, it’s good way of life to live like you want too.
Definitely introduce yourself if we cross paths
That style impeller was never designed to go two directions! I would carry like 6 extra all the time. Everytime those rubber blades flip direction its getting weaker! And you can't ever run it dry, Mercury Outboard's use the exact same style and Mercury mechanics say running the impeller without water for more than 10 seconds to replace
That is what the pump manufacturer said as well. We have extras now. We will watch it to see how it performs and do something different if if it doesn’t.
I'm very happy to see someone else going electric. I'm in the process of adding electric to my sailboat.
I'm doing this piecemeal and I'm a little nervous about if I have sized correct.
Can I please ask a couple questions?
Size motor in kw? Weight of boat and battery size?
I'm 6 tons with a 12 kw motor and 300 amp hr at 48v.
My I ask what you think?
BTW, I also went through that Texas power debacle. Sucked.
Sounds like your motor is sized perfectly. I don't know what the hull speed of your boat is but 6-7kts is common. If you're 'taking it easy' and getting 5 1/2 knots, then you're doing pretty great!
I think so too. Our hull speed if reported to be about 8 knots.
Theoretically the max hull speed can be calculated by this equation….
1.23 x sqrt(waterline length)
Will be interesting to see how the Elec mother performs. More batteries the better. You also have a generator, so that's good
Yes we agree.
Awesome job! Love the videos!
Thanks.
Diesel engines have problems too. Maybe get extra lithium batteries?
Yes they do. Lithium will replace these unless there is something better.
Make yourself a check list like pilots use before takeoff. Use it every time you leave the dock or return.
👍
I’ve used that design of impeller in industry, the failure speeds up when scale forms
How quickly does scale for with the seawater? That’s something to watch out for.
Impellers are one of the fastest things to go bad because they are just thin rubber and are constantly bending back and forth. Sailors should always have a ziplock bag full of replacements.
I agree. Sounds like you have been there.
I hope you found all the impeller pieces. Lol.
Me too. Pretty sure I did.
Once you convert your water pump to a remote 1 way flow system you will have a perfect setup.
Yes I think so.
My Honda generator 2000 has a overload button which you reset if it overloads, its the latest model. I am not sure if older models have it but you can check. As for the impeller setup, in my opinion it sucks and you should get rid of it asap. those impellers are not made to be used that way, regardless you have a nice setup with the electric motor and a standby generator.
The Yamaha has an overload button also. You have to shut it down and restart it. When I start it back up the overload is fine, but the green light for ac is not lit up and nothing works at the plug.
@@Spoondrifters You have to determine if your gen is an inverter type of normal. New models are inverter type which produce dc and convert into ac, but older ones produce ac directly. I also have an inboard mase marine generator which is currently giving me the same trouble and the engine runs fine but no ac current, my electrician says it probably is a faulty exciter. I am no electrician but maybe this could some way help you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but why even do a water cooled electric motor? For the short run times or low RPMs you need on a sailboat, air cooled should be the way to go?
Typically yes you are correct. I suppose it is for the times when you need more. We do plan on doing some ICW trips, like Rockport to Kemah, which will require a lot more motor use. In that case keeping it cooler will also keep it more efficient.
Sorry
if I missed it but what size battery bank do you have?
600 ah at 48 volts. 16 6v lifeline agms in series and parallel.
very nice again after you try it out you should know better what will happen the most important thing is be lucky
I love being lucky!
S/Y Rain Finger: We are an electric Bristol 35.5 sailboat, applauding your decision to go electric, realistically motoring 30 miles down the ICW before anchoring for the night.
Cool! Thanks for being here. 30 mikes does seem quite doable.
I use an electric water pump instead of a jabsco type. Only runs at preset temperature and only as fast as temperature demands.
That may be what we switch to.
It will be fun to watch! Like the comments…
Thanks Doug.
100 as always
Thanks!
It's a SAIL BOAT! The motor is for close quarters work in a confined space. The only down side with electric is a shorter range. All else is gain.
That is very true.
I'm super happy for you but makes me happy I have a not very smelly diesel
Thanks!
How are you doing with all your wiring? What do you have left to hook up? And when are you leaving for Houston?
We still have a lot of wiring left. We work on that on rainy days and do outside stuff in good weather. We want to leave for Houston toward the end of August.
I may be mistaken, but I thought I remembered the boat had a Hobart diesel generator in it when you got it. What happened to it?
Yes it has a Kohler 5kw diesel generator. It is still there but with the interior work the diesel tank is not in place right now. It should. Push the boat at about 4.5 knots.
I guess these electric motors are the wave of the future now.
They sure are improving a lot, making them more desirable.
Looking great. Todd you tend to be very detail oriented. You will figure this out. A impeller with smaller fins perhaps? A reversing impeller isn’t rocket science. Paddle wheel technology.
Thanks Andrew. We will see how long they last and get a plan B in the works
Keep up the good work! And will you add wind generators/turbines to help charge your batteries? I also watched where Delos or someone had a line they dropped in the water that would turn and help charge the batteries, can’t remember what they called it? But all those could add up to unlimited energy and the generator just becomes for emergency situations only.
That is the plan. Wind generation is on the list of possibilities, but as I understand it is not fantastic. The other is a hydro generator. Our prop does much the same thing although is likely less efficient. Hydro generators (good ones) are pricey too.
Wind generators are noisy and require a lot of maintenance. Put your money into solar panels or a few extra batteries.
I watch this one channel called James Condon He show repairing generators. He might have a video that can help. As for electric over a diesel or gas motor I have seen both in use. But I never seen an electric boat go to far off shore. It is up to you but until your motor proves that it will work for you I would stay close to where I can get help.
I will check him out. Thanks for the tip. As fats as electric boats off shore Uma crossed the Atlantic, and Rigging Doctor crossed it twice. Of course, they don’t motor the whole way.
@@Spoondrifters Dan’s in Norway at the moment above the Arctic circle pushing Uma to her limits. He knows in the sunny climates solar is ok to run all the boats needs but northern areas are challenging,only producing 1/4 of what generated down south.
👍👌🇨🇦❤, gr8 stuff
Do you intend to use wind generator in conjunction with solar?
Possibly Dow the road
Does the pump provide cooling water to the motor turning in both direction then exit the boat as a normal diesel or flow in a loop staying within the motor?
Forward brings in fresh seawater and ejects it overboard after the heat exchanger. Reverse just recirculates water in a loop through the pump only. The antifreeze in the heat exchanger uses an electric pump to circulate it on demand. You would have to reverse a long time to get the antifreeze too hot to cool the motor somewhat.
Watched your family/boat redo for a few years, totally enjoying ever event. You sir are an expert in many fields motivating many to do the same thing!
Thanks for all the HOW TO DOOOS! JOINUP FANS AND GET THE MARINA QUEENS IN THE WATER.....
Have you thought about hooking up an alternator to your engine I know it's electric what you could do is get a split pulley stick it on the shaft with a belt ran to the alternator so when the engine is running and the shaft is spinning the alternator is charging the batteries
Interesting concept. I’m not sure what the overall gain would be with the increased drag created by the alternator. I believe regen typically costs about a knot in speed. I’m pretty sure the gain would be an overall net loss in this case.
Sounds like you're trying to make a perpetual motion machine. That ain't gonna work; it'll cost $$$ and get you nothing but heat and reduced range.
I think you are right Benjamin. Other power sources are a better answer. I kid that I need Doc Browns Mr Fusion!
Todd... did not looked comfortable at all, at the beginning 🤣🤣 but, it will be interesting to see how this motor works out.
What? Our insecurities are showing lol. We will get more comfortable as you know, and the motor should be fine.
I believe a Doctor visit may be in your future, as in the Rigging Doctor.
They were building their own lithium batteries.
P.S. I also see a tack welder and a soldering gun in your future!
Great stuff! Glad I found your channel!
Subbing and thumbs up all the way!
We communicate with Rigging Doctor regularly.
Be sure you got a powerful enough generator.
We have a 5kw diesel, and a 2 kw suitcase.
..... laughing ... Hey Todd! that would be pretty boring if it worked perfectly the first time and robbed you of experimenting and having fun solving the challenge .... love your sceptic stopper with "managing recourses" analogy, well done .... sure there are the diehards that won't have a genie for backup, that would not be me ... so the inter costal is on the horizon!! .. get the girls excited about if you are going to fit under the bridges .. smilin ....... hey Tammy and Todd thx for sharing .. and as always .. never stop dreaming, just dream bigger .. have fun be safe, save our oceans ....
I had never thought of a genie! Thanks for supporting us.
@@Spoondrifters .... thx for your reply Tammy ..... in case it was missed, I was referring to a generator .... have an exceptional week .....
when are the solar panels on ?
We are getting closer to that, still doing some prep stuff.
Do you have a website where frequent questions are answered?
I am wondering, how big is your boat?
What is the size (KW) of your electric engine?
What did the electric engine cost?
Just subscribed to your channel and will definitely follow.
I am converting my sailboat to electric also!
We do. www.spoondrifters.com/
Boat is 46’, 15 tons. Motor is a 30kw electric yacht.
Your battery and motor with solar , you also have to run the boat , auto pilot,fridge, cooking fridge for a big family, cooking gas or electric ,
One of the biggest names in cruising Jimmy Cornell's, built an all electric boat to cruise .
And it failed . Having a diesel generator installed ,
As I recall Jimmy was relying on regen for his needs and it wasn’t enough. We will have around 1800 watts of solar. We also have a 5kw generator (diesel) that came on the boat, although we want to limit is use as much as possible, then we have the 2000 watt suitcase generator for more common use. We have a seperate 600ah at 12v house bank as well. It will take some time to balance all the needs and inputs to fill in any gaps. There is no perfect system right now. We need Doc Browns “Mr. Fusion” power generator.
Check out Uma,they’re in Norway at present above the Arctic circle and have never had diesel.
@@barrysullivan59 2 people not a family to feed , you only get video snippets of the good .
@@davidwarnes5158 That’s why I prefer channels like Uma and not many others. They show the minus as well as the plus and explanation and reasons behind the decisions they make. And looking for solutions outside the box is always a good thing.
I watch sailing channels,because being disabled it’s something I used to do and really enjoy. I was given a mirror dingy for me 12th birthday as our house backed onto a large river and spent many years sailing that river. But sadly no more.
What I can’t stand are the endless stream of content out there who think it’s just an excuse to show bikini clad rear end shots.
i sumbled with this video i always thought an electric motor is somuch better for the boat. what's your battery size ? isthere any detailed video on the setup out there?
The battery size is 600ah at 48v lifeline AGM. Heee is a playlist with a few videos on the motor setup.
ruclips.net/p/PL46O6n3uQpDdZvct-u9S1REKTvxhOC-KB
@@Spoondrifters thanks for the fast reply. how much range or hours at 5iah knots can you sail ?
Can u put a sprag clutch?
I don’t know. I can look into it.
Could you just run the impeller through 2 through hulls so it didn't matter which way the pump ran?
Not sure, it would still need to dump overboard.
@@Spoondrifters it would, it could use both under the waterline sea cocks. Both would be intakes as well as outgoing. Just depends on what way the impeller was turning
Lol give it a little gas!
😂
OE genset not hooked up yet?
That is correct
There’s a simple Kilowatt to Horsepower equation. Here’s a link
www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/kw-to-hp.html
Our Morgan 462 ketch had a Perkins 4-236 which was rated at 80 hp @2800 RPM. It was more than capable of powering the boat. What is your electric motor rated for in KW?
We have a 30kw. Also our boat had a Perkins 4-154.
@@Spoondrifters then your electric motor will generate 40 Horse Power the Perkins 1-154 was rated at 42.5 KW at 3000 rpm. So your the same power electrically as you were via diesel. But your low end torque (slow speed power) is much higher with the electric vs the diesel.
Do you know why the generator dropped offline and did not come back online?
I'm thinking of a clutch arrangement so the pump always rotates the same direction. Let me think on it.
Not sure on the generator, possibly something on the inverter control board.
@@Spoondrifters If your portable generator is running but not generating power, this module failure automatic voltage regulator (AVR). It is NOT hard to fix. Let me know if you need help with that.
so was ur generator solar?
No, we have a diesel and gas.
Just to poodle along I tend to run at 1800 rpm, say get 6 knots ,
How long can you run at those speeds , ?
With no real data yet, but projections show 6 knots would be about 19-20kw of power and we would get about 2 hours with batteries alone. I’m not sure on the rpm’s. On a diesel the rpm gauge is how fast the motor is spinning, not how fast the prop is spinning. I think our motor is done the same way but I’m not sure how the gear reduction relates from one to another.
@@Spoondrifters with your generator if it goes through a battery charger , that trickle feeds into the batteries , so ? Can it keep up with use . ?
Solar is different, you can always use quicker that put back in, maybe solar is good but no good in the dark,
Four check valves and four tees and that’s pump will pump in one direction no matter which way it rotates
Yeah, and that’s a lot of fittings.
👍!!!
😍
I don't like that the impeller changes rotation. It seems problematic. The manufacturers need to design a better system. The impeller should rotate in the same direction at all times. It appears they need to redesign it with a gear box or a hydrostatic pump to drive the impeller/pump.
Also, does the system have a sensor that alerts you when the pump is no longer circulating the coolant?
A simple inline flow sensor/sensors would do. A temperature gauge is useless, by the time it registers "hot"... damage may have already been done.
It certainly is not ideal. The benefit of it being a simple mechanical pump may be outweighed by the possible failure of the impeller.the motor has a temperature sensor and will cut back power before damage occurs. The motors are really efficient and don’t need cooling until over about 30% power so that is good. We will watch this setup and may switch to something different if it fails to perform.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
👍😍
i think your e'motor is the bees ass :-)) find a great few days of good weather, ie sun and cruise at avg speed until the engine dies. charge up(sun) and come home :-)
damn i love comments :-)
We do too. To all of it!
👍👍👍👍👍
😍
You have discovered a major flaw in your propulsion system that requires addressing sooner rather than later. As you discovered that direct drive impeller pump is a major design flaw and there can be no guarantee the impeller will even last a year under those operating conditions. Talk to Electric boat and ask if they have an off the shelf electric driven pump. It does not need to move much water.
On the powering side, the first step is to calculate your hull speed (Theoretical displacement hull speed is calculated by the formula: velocity in knots = 1.35 x the square root of the waterline length in feet). Then see how much power from your meters (in zero wind zero current) that your motor is consuming at hull speed. You should achieve hull speed with say 25% power remaining to spare (to cope with weather). Compare that power consumed with the rating of the engine you removed for interest only.
If you deplete your lithium down to say 20% you are going to be bobbing about for a long time for solar to top up - days!
We are definitely going to watch and log time on the impeller. An electric pump is a great option. Electric Yacht has not had problems with boats with the reversing upgrade, but it definitely is a higher maintenance issue. Great advice on checking out the power of the motor! We will give that a try.
I would have just used a electric motor for the water pump but maybe that would be too simple
That may be the solution for sure.
👍⛵️
😍
Interesting numbers. Highly appreciated.
When you talking about
382 rpms consuming 0.12 kw,
IMHO it's not really representative. Boat is not moving.
Real data, would be the sheet of your speed (1-8 kt) over the energy consumption.
Together with your prop parameters and the boat displacement it will give us very useful material for thinking.
Thank you
Yes, we will try to do that in the future.
Not very impressed with electric yachts design of pump (for reverse) . Glad you have a revised set up. I have the same old diesel as somebody who ran his Diesel using an electric water pump for years. (Video available).
This would have been a much simpler system for electric yacht and they could have included a simple on/off controlled by a temp sensor to save power.
I,like everyone else, hates the rubber impeller pumps and getting an electric you would think you could get away from that bug-a-bo on diesels , I guess not! They are cheap , and efficient when they work but a PTA when they don't!
If you can get 5-6 knots at low/mid power draw you are doing very well , more for short bursts would be amazing for such a heavy boat. Keep the hull and prop super clean to not waste that energy.
What happened to the onboard generator?
Comments 😁😁😁 👍🎉Cheers. Warren
Thanks Warren. I agree on the design. We will likely switch to an electric one soon. We still have the 5kw onboard generator, it’s just not hooked up yet.
Even if you run a generator you still have power management problems since you have a limited supply of petrol on your boat. As much as I like the idea of electric the technology is not there and may never be barring some breakthrough. Solar Panels are approaching their theoretical maximum efficiency which means you physically cannot have enough Solar fitted to your yacht. If you want to drop 2 million dollars on a silent yachts cat covered in them and with a shedload of lithium they will tell you it gives you a 60 knot range at 3 knots! They even come equipped as standard with 2 gensets.
The reason that electric boats do not have the same range as electric cars is that once a car has accelerated to cruising speed the motor only has to overcome rolling resistance and air friction it can even regenerate power when the brakes are applied whereas a boat has to continually push all the water out of the way which is why range goes down as you increase boat speed.
That is true about boats. They are never able to roll friction free. I think the breakthrough technology will come, and may not be in the forms we think. Maybe Doc Browns Mr. Fusion.
Did you fix your wife's racing stripe, she put on the boat?????🙃
Not yet. It is character!
Why? Diesel is much more efficient, good luck with resale
Everything has its trade offs. The one we felt were important to us are what we chose.