Bind test #2 reveal! (JCM 800 vs Kemper vs Helix vs Axe Fx)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Here's the original #2 blind test video: • Blind Test #2! (Marsha...
This is the follow-up video to that blind test. We discuss the results to that blind test and I also walk you through the settings of the real Marshall JCM 800 Studio SC20H amp and the settings on the Helix, Axe Fx and Kemper!
Don't forget to let me know in the comments if you were right or wrong with the blind test! :)
To get the OwnHammer (r)Evolution Series Debut Bundle, go here: www.ownhammer.com/store/index...
Thanks for watching this video! Please like this video and hit subscribe along with the bell, also don't be shy and drop a comment down below!
Follow SDS at:
/ sonicdrivestudio
/ sonicdrivestudio_official
Congrats to everybody who guessed all of them right! Good ears! :) Thanks for participating guys!
I'm glad A is Helix. I own one and it was my favourite sounding next to D.
Honestly I couldn´t guess wich is wich.. All the tones you get from all are almost identical to the real amp. Keep up the good work Jon. Amazing tones
@@metelway Proves to me how much cabs/ speakers/ mics/ IRs make up the character of the tone
I guessed everything :D Jon, I've asked you before and I ask you again, is there any chance to hear you raw DI tracks?
It's more like the statistics was on their side, not ears :)
What we learn from all of these tests, is just how good all of these modellers really are. Its a good time to be a guitar player.
My FM3 would absolutely be worth it to me if the only amp model were the 2204. It’s really so good.
THIS
2:36 Marshall SC20H
4:51 Helix Native
6:48 Fractal AXE FXIII
10:02 Kemper
Damn, the Helix sounded the best to me :0
Me too haha
I thought it sounded the most "perfect" but the least like a real amp.
Thanks for all the work you put into making these! You do a fantastic job and I enjoy it very much.
We have got to a point where all these digital platforms provide you with totally usable tones. Having said that I would personally pick an amp with a few pedals and the right cab for my sound(live) and an ir for home and be done. Then I can focus on playing rather than endlessly scrolling through menu's searching for some holy grail of tone I already have in the amp. Just me though.
Your videos are second to none man, thank you.
A and D sounded the best to me :D Helix sounds great!
Awesome test and mixing, thank you!
I just really dig that tone for chords - a nice amount of gain but with great clarity.
I'm gonna go check this out on the FM3.
Great video man!!! Keep Rockin!
Got the amp right at least. Sounded more like the real deal to me.
But I mixed everything else up, lol.
Turns up that aside from the real thing, the Helix sound was the one I liked the most. Glad to be a Helix owner!
Thanks for the videos, man. Cheers!
I suck at this! I'm just going to buy a zoom effects pedal.
Those Zoom G units are really not bad.
Hi, just wondering if you use any low cut on the IR block on the Helix. I'm trying to work out where the sweet spot it. I find I need to cut down to at least 250Hz at high volume to keep the clarity and make it sound tight like a real amp through my PA and monitors, but at low volume I tend to use less low cut to make it sound more full. Interested in your thoughts and opinion on this if you would be willing to share your experience. Cheers..
WTF?!?!?!? I could have sworn A was the real marshall?!?!?!? I was willing to bet every dollar I had on that!!! Im convinced..... Im the helix now! Much appreciated for taking the time to do this my friend!
Cool Video, but which IR specifically with which microphone etc. I have this pack but the specifics arent' enought to locate that IR. is it a 57 in the middle on the edge, a ribbon etc.
Wow! I was thinking the only one I don't like is B (Axe Fx). So interesting.
I guessed the amp and Kemper correctly, however I've missed on Helix vs Axe Fx - I've thought that the fizzy sounding one is Helix, quite surprised.
Same.. and I'm a Helix guy! Was pleasantly surprised that my gear held up!!
I have a question, is it possible for the JCM 800 (new 100w version 2203) to switch between Low and High inputs with an ABY switch? Thanks for the reply.
Thanks for this. Do you find the Kemper into a tube power amp and cab can get you close enough to the real deal in a room? Thanks!
Great playing! That was the best part. :)
that fractal unit caught me off guard, great quality, great tones, got'm wrong this time
Which modeler has the best feel ? Also with volume down dynamics ? I actually thought B sounded best, but thought they were all super close....
Well, you guys have better ears than me, they all sounded good to me and I'd be happy with any of them. Curious to see how the Quad Cortex stacks up to these in the near future.
the best channel that really explains the coficarion to sound almost the same as the super fan amplifier of sonic drive studio
Hi! Could you share the IR used with Helix? Thanks!
I found that turning tube bias on the kemper all the way up it makes it closer to the real amps. Great video and sounds, could you please tell me what pickups does the guitar have? Thanks
Nice! Helix sounds Great. Incredible. I'd really like to know how do you make the second part of the track panning guitar lows and highs. Amazing mixing dude.
Let me introduce you to the concept of multitrack recording.
@@HeavyListeningMusic 🙄🤔😶
Ahhh, so close, I got the Helix and the AXE FX III mixed up but got the Kemper and real amp correct. Not really familiar enough with the Helix or Fractal to know their quirks, but I knew the quirk of the Kemper tightening up low frequencies. The Kemper and the real amp were extremely close, but honestly, I'm surprised by the Helix. I never really liked Line 6's interpretation of Marshall style amps the few times that I've used them, but your clip here sounded really good with it.
Awesome test! Super impressed with all the tones you managed to achieve with each platform (and amp). Bravo!!
From the previous video my guess was A kemper B real amp C helix and D axe fx, I didn’t comment. They are all good tones but I definitely preferred the axefx over all of them and the helix was second. I feel like the Jcm800 studio and kemper were sonically different and which makes sense because of the power amp. I was also pleasantly surprised the axefx was what I thought was the real amp.
To me, in order of best sounding to worst sounding, it was: A>D>C>B - A clearly was the best, and B was definitely the worst. A was crisp, and tight. B sounded fizzy, undefined, and soft.
I thought A was the worst, I'm certainly no expert on this at all though
My opinion is that the actual marshall sounds the best but the others are really good.. It just sounds more "alive" if this makes sense.. Great video
Thanks for doing this video!
May I ask, do you find the Kemper more intuitive than the Fractal Audio? Also, how did you add clarity to the Kemper profile?
Can you dial out the compression? I actually like the added compression added by some profiles because I think it often makes it more forgiving when playing lead - and can't notice a difference in a band mix playing live.
Every unit on the market is more intuitive than the fractal. And to answer your other question, clarity is in the amplifier section on the kemper. It doesn’t really eliminate any compression that you’re referring to, it’s hard to describe what exactly does besides what it literally means… you’ll notice more clarity especially in high gain profiles.
Only think I "knew" was B and C being digital, but they all sounded pretty similar. I would like to know how much different is for the one who is playing the guitar
Wow! I guessed all of them right! Nice video!
Great video again Jon! Can we get that tasty Profile pretty please? Sounds magical! Xx
good video man!! what a cabinet you use in the axe?
Oops, I had it the other way around between the amp and Kemper 😅 anyway, they all sounded awesome, great test!
You can adjust amp compression in the Kemper amp block itself, it would be interesting to know what that was set at. I definitely heard the compression on the blind test but it made me thing it was the real thing LOL.
Good point! I just left it at the default setting, so I guess 0?
Now that I've got my ear trained to the differences, I was able to correctly guess all four listening to the blind test, although the Kemper and real amp were super close. The Helix is a little more forward in the upper mids, the Fractal has a lot more top end, and the Kemper has a little more midrange push, but that was kind of a guess between those two. The Fractal 800 is super bright and I have to take the bright cap way down. Helix has a lot more gain so dropping the master helps. Nice comparison!
Can you do a comparaison with some neural dsp stuff and real amp ?
Is it possible to buy the Helix presets?
I guess we got to a point where re-amping in a real amp VS using one of those plugins gets you equivalent results (in a mix anyway). I will keep using my amp while recording though, because you can't emulate the feedback of a cab right in front of your guitar. And with a DI box, the possibilities are endless once you get that dry "more alive with natural feedback" signal. Very interesting, thanks for this comparison!
BAM!! Nailed it...and that using laptop speakers!
You can see the original blind-test thread for my posting which highlights the 'tells' that I caught.
I feel vindicated, My picks were C & D although it was difficult to tell them which was which? But that makes sense because the Kemper was based on the actual JCM 800 SC20 Amp. Well Done!
I have a HX Stomp & Native and was sure that B was the Helix.. It also wasn't my favourite! It was the only one where the top-end felt a bit harsh for me. A and D were my favourites, and I thought they were the Fractal & real amp.. I had only guessed the Kemper correctly. They all had the character right, probably down to using the same IR. I felt the differences could be fixed with EQ. Certainly wouldn't be as noticeable in a mix context.
Your videos have led to me buying a few Ownhammer packs.. Really good stuff. Cheers!
They all sound close enough that it doesn't matter to me.
Great video and amazing how close the modellers can get. Does the Helix floor model sounds as good or the same as Helix Native?
Yes, it's the same thing except one is a floorboard and the other is for your computer.
the thing I got from this, this guy knows how to set up his gear
I use both helix and axefx and I like them both . I find the axefx has a bit more bite and fits a bit better in the mix overall but these are minor minor things
B and D for me sounds better . Honsstly I couldn't say which one is what as I dont have that much experience with that jcm800. But the frequencies on B and D are my favourites.
Again thank you so freaking much for doing what you do its inspiring.
A and b sounded compressed. Think metallica, I felt c and d were more open I could t tell which was which. I just knew a and b weren’t the real deal.
I chosed a helix b amp c Kemper a d axe, I liked b the most go the clarity. Great video you got me.
Is it relevent to compare a real amp with modellers when all of them end up in a load box with IR?
I actually preferred the Kemper!! Very interesting thank you.
If you turn up the clarity and pick parameters on the Kemper you might get better single note definition. It seems a bit mushy here compared to the others. The Helix sounded the best here to me.
I believe that I picked B as real amp as to my ears sounded closer to my JCM 800 50 watt with 1960’s 4x12 cab then picked D as Kemp! 🎸😎✌️
I got A and B correct and mixed up the Kemper and real amp. Makes sense because I thought C and D were the most alike.
ha, I was sure A was the real amp, it sounded so open and articulate! guess i shouldn't trade in my Helix!
This was good. I would have liked to see it the comparison to where all the dials are the exact same on all platforms. Then, that would be a little closer to the real thing wouldn’t it? Great video! 👍🏻
I knew C and D would be the Kemper and the real thing, but they were so similar that I couldn't tell which was which. A and B I knew for sure were modelers, but I was surprised that B was the Fractal since I usually think of it as sounding more similar to the real thing than the Helix.
oh ..so thats why the B (fractal) sounded a bit different. Either way, they all sound good enough imo. Great comparison !
I love these videos! I was totally wrong however. On the first video I commented that B was my favorite and C or D was probably the Helix. Even after knowing the truth A & B I still like better.
In a mix I can't hear a difference only really when you isolate them. Most of the time I'm playing it's going into a mix anyways so the subtle differences don't matter much to me.
Nice, I got the real amp right, and picked my favorite modeler (AxeFx, pending Quad Cortex possibly taking over that spot) as 2nd best.
I got em right ! :D nice video dude, thanks !
Following up to my comment on the orginal, I'm simultaneously surprised, disappointed and impressed!
My favourite was A (Helix) followed by B (Axe FX)
I really didn't like the sound of the real amp but I thought that C and D sounded identical. So I guess the Kemper can very accurately recreate the sound of the amp, even if I don't like it so much!
I liked C the best and thought maybe it was the real amp. I could hear the cab the most in that - must be a good IR. Helix sounds a touch thinner almost like a pre eq’d mix tone.
Lol I got them all wrong. I had the real amp and kemper mixed up, and the axe fx and helix mixed up. I've never owned an axe fx or helix so I'm not worried about those, but I feel like I should have been able to tell the kemper from the real amp!
The Axefx 800 is based on the Canadian model which was slightly different than the 800s from elsewhere. That may be why its so bright compared to the others.
Yup
I am pleased with how I came to my choices, even if I got them all wrong haha
I guessed A Helix, B Axe FX III, C amp , and D Kemper. Axe FX seems to have a deepness to the tone that I like
The Axe Fx had a lot more low-end
Kemper Brit profiles are as good as it gets. That added compression is great.
Nice test! Sounds with chords are super close, I could tell a lot with separate strings being payed though. I thought A or D was the real amp or kemper mostly because the sound was more neutral without much stereo separation, B sounded best to my ears & thought it was either the kemper or axe fx, I guess I got one right. C sounded the worst because of the strange stereo separation & I thought it was the helix.
D was my favourite right after C...glad to see that the real tube amp pulled through! I’m shocked however that B was my least favourite since the Axe Fx III is the most powerful modeller on the planet
I thought A sounded best. Not so overly harsh like B and C. D was my 2nd fav. But in the end all 4 are usable and good Marshall sounds to my ears. I tried your settings and the very same IR (OWN V30 Classic 1) on my Helix Floor and I can second it: Sounds awesome. So, thanks for the heads up! Wóuld have never thought about using the Classic Mix.
Goes to show why my Helix is still worth the money.
Honestly, I am very impressed by Helix. I confused everything except Kemper. And Kemper is a true underdog here..
Helix definitely won this one, damn! C and D sounded very similar so it made easier to guess that they were the real amp and the Kemper.
Damn, switched the Helix and the Axefx :-(
I did the blind test, and Kemper sounded best to me. Curious if it’s really that good or I am just used to my Kemper sound by now.
Then the real amp, then Helix and Fractal sounded worst for me in this comparison.
And I thought that two best for me (Kemper and real amp) sounded really close in the blind test with Helix and Fractal sounding significantly different.
Kemper reslly is the closest modeler to the real deal in this comparison, but it’s also not fair, as Kemper had the real amp attached to it to make the profile.
Damn lol. A and d were there ones I kept thinking this could be the real amp. I went with my gut said A. I was about to go D to lol. Damn. I surprised the helix sounded as good as it did. The Kemper and the fractial I got backwards. The Kemper I played I felt like I couldn't get away from the low end. But I have heard fraticals can do that too. But I thought they were a bit better.
It was fairly obvious that Kemper/800 were one of C & D...because those were very close to each other, and this particular 800 was profiled on the Kemper.
I thought B was the Kemper and C was the real amp. I thought A was too thin and D lacked clarity. This fits with my overall theory that the selection of amps, amp vs modeler, or esoteric settings on modelers and amps is more about the way the player feels about the sound than what the non-guitarist music fan hears.
So I guess the value of the gear is more in how it feels to play than an objective analysis of how the end result sounds. I have a little Wangs 5 watt, 8-inch combo that I love to death for the tones I get out of it -- even if I have to lay it down on the floor with a pillow over the back to get those tones in my tiny apartment.
Thank God, I got it right in my comment about the initial video. Mmh, that was nerve-wrecking.
I had picked C as the real amp and D as the Kemper. Like you I own a lot of amps so I only ever use modelling on recorded DI tracks before re-amping through a real amp with an Ox Box.
The difference I always hear between the amp modelling and the real amps is not really a tone thing but more of a presence thing.
To me when I stack guitar tracks the modeled tracks just seem to lack some definition and mush together more, while the stacked amp tracks feel more bold and seem to cut better. Its hard to explain but it seems like they just have a little more backbone and translate with more authority.
Still I have to admit all the modelers sounded great in your test.
I don't know where this puts me. I thought the Dual Rec was obvious and got it right. I thought this one was really difficult and sat down to listen to them back to back and figure out which one it was and decided on D. Then today I rewatched the blind test and thought it was really obvious it was A and must have been having a bad day hearing day last time. It was suggested to me by someone they thought it was A though so I wonder if that had a subconscious effect.
Got em all right! 👍
What were the results?
Amazingly close
All sounded good, very similar, none sounded better/worse than the other, just a bit different.
Note: none are really a tone I'd dial in for myself.
Having 3 of the 4 (Axe fx 3, Kemper, and tube Amps including Marshalls) I can go over what I think about them.
Oh yeah, modelers today really do sound like real amps, so that's not a problem.
The modelers win hands down for any type of home studio DAW recording, they're so much easier to use, not so loud, and you can dial in so many different great tones that you can't with an amp unless you have a big budget for a high end studio, amps, and producer.
Amps are just cooler for live sounds, they scale up differently with volume especially vs modeler/FRFR combo, but even with a real cab and clean power amp it still scales up differently as you crank up the volume. The signal coming into the clean power is like a cranked amp, but then you pass at lower power to the cab, it just sounds different. With FRFR the highs come out more at higher volume, just how the brain perceives it, so you need to mess with the EQ as you turn it up.
Given some time you can dial in a great sound at any volume, I was just a bit taken aback at first
Kemper vs Axe3:
Kemper is easier to dial in a tone, the work comes in at getting good profiles, some totally suck. I like the Top Jimi ones, they are really good, but once you get it you can't really change it all that much, some but not a lot.
With the Axe3 the sky's the limit, you can truly get any tone as well as noodle with it to get something unique to you, but it's like going down the rabbit hole, you can spend hours and hours screwing with it, but it's fun.. well my wife and kids get tired of it.. haha
If I had to pick just one it would be the Axe3, it's a beast so much you can do, too much for many people.
the helix has a very hi end frequency maybe more than 20.000 hz,with a hi cut at 20.000hz i think make it like all the others,very big difference,but i dont know why they have that(put in before the cab ir)
I'm correct!!!!ABCD all correct!!! Nice video!! Very interesting! As i told you before modellers sounds really good!
I liked the axe fx the most. 👍
B sounded best. Figured that would be the real amp.
Nooo You were supposed to give me a reason not to buy a fractal and that was somehow my favorite 🤣🤣🤣 I mixed up the Helix and Kemper, somehow, but not the kemper and real amp 🤔🤔🤔 I guess listening on a phone will do that to you. The fact that I thought the Helix was a Kemper is reason enough to keep it.
I was considering an HX Stomp but I didn't like the A sound on the blindfold challenge. It's boxy and kinda dead sounding imo. The only modeler that really convinces me still is the Axe FX
damnn axe fx and marshall are so similar b and d were my favs
Real Marshall: 2:35
Line 6 Helix: 4:50
Fractal Audio AXE FX III: 6:48
Kemper Stage Profile: 10:02
You're welcome.
Guessed it right!
I like C . Cause its close to D .. i hope it was an axe fx 3 .. but the result it was a kemper . It's suprised me... and also i didnt know D was the real amp ....