Recognized your voice on the comercial. Thanks for the honest review. So a good set of scratchers and she will cool perfectly, may not be the sled may be the hardback conditions all my friends with Polaris sleds seeing the same issue due to all the hard pack rain mixed with snow setting up the base that wont fling onto the heat exchangers. Thanks Ponycar fan.
I had over heating issues with two of my Mountain sleds on the trail then finally went with a 2023 Riot X which has the full tunnel cooler and no more over heating. I hope the Catalyst Riot X has a full tunnel cooler or I may have to pass on it.
Great review and comparo to the Pro Cross chassis. It sure sounds like, from everything I'm viewing, reading, like the Catalyst is going to be a huge deal for us Cat guys. I believe that all newer model sleds should have scratchers added.... why not? Cheap and they do make a difference on hard pack.
Absolutely, it was a great idea for Cat to include scratchers on the Riots, but should be on them all. Cat doesn’t make a fan cooled engine at all any more. They include a tether and all Catalysts get an RCA power jack. Scratchers make sense. Thanks for the kind words!
I believe overheating was the biggest problem with pro cross. Catalyst still has overheating issues or worse not good. Great point Great job Thanks Josh G
Arctic Cat Fan will say this. At 5.33 you bounce a lot on the Catalyst. After trying an R-Motion, I don't understand the launch of a new chassis before an improved suspension...that's why I'm looking elsewhere now. Your video reviews are always great 😍 Thank you.
I wasn’t bouncing, the sled was. Because I was in the middle, the sled was moving around me, it was something I’ve never experienced before. I felt bad for the riders on ProCross sleds that day, because they were getting beat up on the section of trail. That’s a good point about the Ski Doo rear suspension. I need to ride one, everyone has good things to say - there’s a reason they’re so popular, and I’d love to try one. I appreciate your comments!
@ponycarfan the r-motion rear skid is worlds better than the Slide Action. I think Cat has a way more predictable front end setup than Doo, but the R-Motion provides a much smoother ride but also less prone to bottoming out. And then you have the PPS on the Lynx and we'll that's a whole next level of big trail bump capability. I'm proud to say I both Red and Green Cats😂
@@ponycarfan I think that's an accurate statement. I take wife's Renegade 600 x out for smooth trail riding because it just handles flatter and rides nicer than the Lynx. But Saturday when the trails have 2 foot moguls, the Lynx just soaks them up. Plus the uncoupled rear suspension is a blast. I'm interested to ride the new Cataylst with the 129 uncoupled skid.
Thanks for the review. Sounds like I am going to wait until 2025 and see if they flush out the 1st year issues. Very disappointed in hearing about cooling issues, as we had problems with our 137 Cat and have no issues with any of our Doo's. I always wondered how much of it was their snowflap design
Snow flap is something I hadn’t considered. That’s a good thing to keep in mind when troubleshooting cooling. I think a big engine in the Catalyst would be awesome!
@@ponycarfan I know that the Doo dealers have told us if the sleds are overheating, dial back the shock and get that flap on the ground. Next time you ride, notice how the Cat flap is 2-3 inches off the snow after sit-in, meaning most of your cooling is shot out the back. I had even thought about adding 2 inches of plastic with zip ties just to see how much it helped on my ZR 6000.
Great video. I was wondering about your current riot. How would you rate your 146 cross action rear skid? I'm on the fence to purchase a new sled riot 9000 146 or zr 9000 137. I'm mostly a trail rider just like to know more info about that cross action rear suspension is it smooth, comfortable, quiet, can it handle the rough choppy trails? Vs a 137 slide action. Thanks keep up the great videos.
That’s a great question. Having ridden both 9000’s, I would pick the 137. The Cross Action is okay for trail riding, but it’s not an improvement over the Slide Action for trail riding. The Riot is a compromise. I thought I would like the off-trail capability, but have not found many opportunities. The majority of off-trail I do is for ice fishing, and the 137 would get me where I need to go 90% of the time. The Riot needs more ski pressure to counteract the understeer caused by that long skid. On my 8000, that means it’s a very delicate balance between understeer and steering effort. For trail riding, I have it set up as light as I can make it without giving up steering effort and it’s still not as light as a regular ZR. With Electronic Power Steering on the 9000’s, that’s not an issue. However, EPS on the Riot exposes just how much understeer there actually is. You can find the limits of adhesion quicker on the Riot. It’s easier to make the 137 9000’s go where you want to go, with or without EPS. That big motor will get an unsuspecting rider into trouble in a hurry, and the combination of shorter track, coupled skid and better ski pressure balance of the 137 gives you time to react. On the Riot 9000, I found myself needing to think ahead on trail. In a straight line, the 146 gives it an advantage for traction, it’s better in moderately deep snow, and it does bridge bumps well. But, the 137 is the trail winner. I’ve heard of Riot owners swapping out the seat, too. The Riot seat is living room sofa soft, and that makes it more difficult to shift your weight. I have to work at it, to corner as well as a regular trail sled, and the inside ski still lifts more often. I hope that helps. The 998 turbo is buttery smooth and the power is addictive. I can see why it’s such a popular choice. For me, price was a deciding factor and still is. But, if it wasn’t, I’d go with that engine any day.
A 1.75" on trails is going to get hot in any modern chassis without fresh loose snow or scratchers down at certain speeds. Either slow riding or fast and straight riding. Even with scratcher go fast enough it all misses the exchangers. 1.25 seems to be the best for cooling but also track studs help and scratchers if really icy but much less that 2" off trail is pointless and I wouldn't stud anything over 1.5". Length not much to do with in my personal experience. My 2" 146 will get hot if not managed as would have my 1.5" x 136. My 1.25 x 136 will if conditions are really poor but rode pure ice and rain with studs and scratcher and was fine. Now my 1.25 x 129" lake XC racer never got hot with studs but was just a idiot light so no clue actual temps.
It’s definitely firm, and I wonder if I could ride all day on it. The longest we rode was maybe 2-3 hours and it was fine. The thing I liked about it is how easy you can shift your weight. Because it’s firm, you don’t have to lift your weight off the seat to move around, just slide a bit. I’d rather have this seat than the one on my 21 Riot.
When you say temp issues are we talking above 140? Also does it cool down fast if you run it in some deep snow.... im on the fence my 2020 SKS 850 is almost perfect but I'm a CAT GUY!!!
I got the temp light to come on. A quick dive into powder next to the trail resolved it. Had I dropped the scratchers, I probably wouldn't have a problem.
I’m 6’3”. When I saw the seat, I thought it was way too small, that’ll never work. When I sat on it and started riding, I realized it was perfect. If you watch the “casting call” video that Cat put out today, all of the riders basically said the same thing, even though we were all different heights.
I run a summit 154x2.5 and don’t have any cooling issues even on hard pack if I have set of scratchers I’d hoped cat would get a better cooling for there long tracks .
Cat ships the Riot with scratchers, and I do use them (did not use them on the Catalyst). The Riot is a special beast, because it lives in between a mountain sled and a trail sled. They put a standard “trail” heat exchanger in it, but it’s way back at the end of the tunnel. People have speculated that it’s far enough back that snow just doesn’t get up there as easily as the trail sleds. I suspect the Catalyst Riot is set up the same way. With scratchers, it’s not a problem. But, I don’t like using scratchers when I’m riding in front of someone else, so I don’t always use them.
@@CCH-R That's actually a good question. The Riot isn't actually a mountain sled - the previous Riot was a 70/30 or maybe even 80/20 trail sled-biased cross over. The Riot X was the opposite. The new Catalyst Riot is probably a lot closer to the mythical 50/50 crossover. Still needs to ride trails, and do it well.
@@ponycarfan riot X is the mtn version but regular does my point was it should handle trails temps better than a straight mtn sled as it’s intended purpose.I tried the 50/50 thing and decided better to go straight mtn and buy a trail sled when I have the cash personally.
I currently have a 2014 ZR9000 Turbo and have been waiting for a new model for a long time. I would like to order one, but I am concerned about going from the 1100 Turbo engine to a 600. Have you ever ridden the Turbo and if yes, do you think going to a 600 would be a let down? Also, I have always owned 129 inch models, so I am wondering if you were able to compare the longer Riot to the Catlyst ZR 129 and 137 models? How does the Riot handle on trails compared to the shorter ZRs?
I have ridden a 2020 Thundercat and a 2024 Thundercat, both with the 998 turbo. They’re not in the same league as the 600. However, the Catalyst is so much lighter that it makes riding fun. If you ride a lot of wide and straight trails, you’re going to miss the power. If you ride a lot of forests, narrow and winding trails, then you’ll appreciate how easy the Catalyst can corner. It’s a tough call. The power of the turbos I’ve ridden is addictive. However, the Catalyst is a lot easier to handle. For track length, I would stick with a 129 or 137 - the Riot will push a bit in the corners. The Catalyst isn’t as bad as my 21 Riot, but it’s still harder to corner with that long track. Hope that helps!
@@ponycarfan It definitely helps! I do mostly trail riding on groomed trails, but I also love to ice fish, so I am wondering what the Catalyst is like in the deeper snow. Did you ride it in any deeper snow to see how fast it could go?
@@BrockoM No, I didn't. The only "off trail" we did was when the group stopped and I pulled over. Was riding the Riot 9000 and as soon as it dropped off into deep snow, the front end sank and I got stuck. 😂 For ice fishing in the Midwest where I live, you'd probably be okay with a 1.25" lug track, but I'd probably buy the 137 ZR and put a 1.6 Cobra on it so I could go pretty much wherever I wanted.
@@BrockoM you'll only love the turbo over the 600 when you hit a lake or when you need to buy more 2 smoke oil. Otherwise sleds are way more fun when they are lighter.
so the overheating... i'm curious, how often did it over heat going 40-50mph on the same trail? any liquid sled at 20mph is going to overheat. i have a 22 riot, and have to drive like an old lady to overheat it. just curious more that criticism as i'm looking into the 858 riot currently.
The trails were freshly groomed, and we weren't riding aggressively. In my opinion, the Catalyst Riot cooling is about what I'd expect from my 21 under the same conditions.
@@MikeMartinOutDoors It's a different design and after looking into it, I prefer the new approach. My 21 Riot 800 has a front exchanger and a rear exchanger, connected by a set of pipes. The rear exchanger tends to bridge over with ice on hard-packed trails, causing the coolant temp to rise until I stop and knock the ice off. The Catalyst Riot has a very similar cooling system as the ZR's except longer. Instead of having a rear heat exchanger, the Catalysts have mini exchangers running the full length of the tunnel and connected by a pipe in the back. I think this makes it much more resistant to an ice bridge across the tunnel. Even if one is created, it only extends part way down the tunnel, leaving the rest exposed. Any bumps will dislodge the ice, making it a self-clearing system, whereas my Riot is not. Still has a front exchanger. I got a factory tour last fall and got to see them assembling the tunnels. The new cooling design makes sense when you see it and that's why I think it's better. Either system seems vulnerable to ice bridging if trail conditions are freshly groomed, super smooth and hard-packed, and especially when it's unusually cold. On my 21, I expect it below zero, never happens at 20F. I never got a chance to stop and check the tunnel during the photo shoot and can't be sure. However, I'll bet this is what happened during our trail ride with the Riot. I'm no longer worried about it, and believe the system will be scaled correctly for the 858.
The Blast is a great sled, bridges the gap between a kids sled and full size. When I think of single cylinder youth sleds, I think if the Elan, and the Blast is much more refined than that (as it should be, the Elan was designed 50 years ago).
To answer your questions... the new display looks nice. They didn't teach me how to use it, so I'm actually curious about what Cat says about it. It does display hand and thumb warmer settings all the time, which is nice. It's really tempting to order one, they are very, very nice.
Ok so you shall pay what, 14 grand for a sled that overheats? That's nuts. I know they got rid of radiators in the mid 1990's but in my era the LC El-Tigre 6000 leafers only overheated if you lost coolant or leaned it out too far. Why they can't figure out a way to install a radiator in the nose for slow hard running blows my mind. I get these days weight reduction is gospel but not everyone buys a sled for mountain climbing. Makes as much sense as removing the fan from my car.
I hear ya. There's a delicate balance between weight and sufficient cooling. My 2002 Polaris never overheats, but it's a tank. I think the Riots seem more prone to low snow conditions than the ZR's. I was riding a sled that rolled off the factory floor a few days before and it's possible there was air in the lines. But, I deal with the same temp issues on my 21 Riot, and it just seemed par for the course. It's weird that the aftermarket doesn't provide a solution.
According to my buddy and every cat owner the riots ride better than any other brand. I used to bleed green myself til I rode other brands and I've rode the riot and it's the same old tank since 2012. It blows my mind how 2 opinions can differ. The cat feels heavy, steers heavy and seems to almost to nothing well compared to the other 2 brands yet cat owner think differently 🤔
@@jromem7313 True, what people think is good or bad is very subjective. I know what you mean about the Riot. I liked it, because it cornered better than the Axys Assault I test rode. And, the price was right - that was a huge factor. But, when you look at what the competition has been doing, it’s amazing. The state of snowmobiling has never been better. The Catalyst ups the game for Cat, and I hope they can capitalize on this new energy.
@ponycarfan to bad they dropped the ball and not put out at least an 800. Won't even get one for 2 more years so there's that. Doesn't matter how good the 600 is guys want 800 or bigger they may be out of business before it comes out. Not sure what they were thinking on that deal but they blew it in my mind. Waited 10 years and then wait another 2 for a motor idiots
@@jromem7313 I know the subject was hotly debated within the company. From my day job, I know enough about the development process to understand why the decision was made. There were people on both sides, and neither side was wrong, in my opinion.
Those big engines pay the bills, nothing wrong with that. Cat has one in the wings, and I’m hoping they can show the competition a trick or two next year.
@@kenchiison4570 My videos aren't sponsored by Cat and aren't a product of their marketing team. My role during the photo shoot was trail riding, and that's what I'm sharing. I'm sorry that I don't make off trail videos, but there are a lot of people who do. Ski Doo obviously has a lot more money to spend on advertising, and they should have with their market share. They do a great job blanketing social media with ads.
Compared to a ZR 6000, I would say that’s what it felt like. They tweaked the engine, and may have gained a few ponies, but the main thing is what they did to the Catalyst to make it perform better. It works well!
Overheating on a snowmobile is just crazy. Bring back fan cooled motors. I ran a fan cooled phazer in the mountains in 50 degree temps without overheating. Most trail riding is under 60 mph anyway.
Unfortunately, I think the problem is the EPA, they don’t like those 2-smokes, and the only way to get them to run cleaner is to push them past the limits of a fan cooled sled. I miss those engines, so much easier to work on.
That's a really good question, and I don't know. We heard that 50 pounds lighter was the goal, but the engineers at the photo shoot didn't say whether they got that much or not. I haven't seen anything posted online about weight yet.
Recognized your voice on the comercial. Thanks for the honest review. So a good set of scratchers and she will cool perfectly, may not be the sled may be the hardback conditions all my friends with Polaris sleds seeing the same issue due to all the hard pack rain mixed with snow setting up the base that wont fling onto the heat exchangers.
Thanks Ponycar fan.
I had over heating issues with two of my Mountain sleds on the trail then finally went with a 2023 Riot X which has the full tunnel cooler and no more over heating. I hope the Catalyst Riot X has a full tunnel cooler or I may have to pass on it.
Great review and comparo to the Pro Cross chassis. It sure sounds like, from everything I'm viewing, reading, like the Catalyst is going to be a huge deal for us Cat guys. I believe that all newer model sleds should have scratchers added.... why not? Cheap and they do make a difference on hard pack.
Absolutely, it was a great idea for Cat to include scratchers on the Riots, but should be on them all. Cat doesn’t make a fan cooled engine at all any more. They include a tether and all Catalysts get an RCA power jack. Scratchers make sense.
Thanks for the kind words!
I believe overheating was the biggest problem with pro cross.
Catalyst still has overheating issues or worse not good.
Great point
Great job
Thanks
Josh G
Buy what you want and go ride & don’t listen to ANYONE putting down your choice .
Arctic Cat Fan will say this. At 5.33 you bounce a lot on the Catalyst. After trying an R-Motion, I don't understand the launch of a new chassis before an improved suspension...that's why I'm looking elsewhere now. Your video reviews are always great 😍 Thank you.
I wasn’t bouncing, the sled was. Because I was in the middle, the sled was moving around me, it was something I’ve never experienced before. I felt bad for the riders on ProCross sleds that day, because they were getting beat up on the section of trail.
That’s a good point about the Ski Doo rear suspension. I need to ride one, everyone has good things to say - there’s a reason they’re so popular, and I’d love to try one.
I appreciate your comments!
@@ponycarfan Thank you for your answer, I watched your videos on the Riot so many times. I like what you do.
@ponycarfan the r-motion rear skid is worlds better than the Slide Action.
I think Cat has a way more predictable front end setup than Doo, but the R-Motion provides a much smoother ride but also less prone to bottoming out.
And then you have the PPS on the Lynx and we'll that's a whole next level of big trail bump capability.
I'm proud to say I both Red and Green Cats😂
@@PartTimeYooper I’ve heard the harder you ride a Lynx the better they get. Would love to try one some day.
@@ponycarfan I think that's an accurate statement. I take wife's Renegade 600 x out for smooth trail riding because it just handles flatter and rides nicer than the Lynx. But Saturday when the trails have 2 foot moguls, the Lynx just soaks them up.
Plus the uncoupled rear suspension is a blast. I'm interested to ride the new Cataylst with the 129 uncoupled skid.
Thanks for the review. Sounds like I am going to wait until 2025 and see if they flush out the 1st year issues. Very disappointed in hearing about cooling issues, as we had problems with our 137 Cat and have no issues with any of our Doo's.
I always wondered how much of it was their snowflap design
Snow flap is something I hadn’t considered. That’s a good thing to keep in mind when troubleshooting cooling. I think a big engine in the Catalyst would be awesome!
@@ponycarfan I know that the Doo dealers have told us if the sleds are overheating, dial back the shock and get that flap on the ground.
Next time you ride, notice how the Cat flap is 2-3 inches off the snow after sit-in, meaning most of your cooling is shot out the back.
I had even thought about adding 2 inches of plastic with zip ties just to see how much it helped on my ZR 6000.
@@PartTimeYooper Excellent point - I'll try that on my Riot next time I see temps start climbing.
Great video. I was wondering about your current riot. How would you rate your 146 cross action rear skid? I'm on the fence to purchase a new sled riot 9000 146 or zr 9000 137. I'm mostly a trail rider just like to know more info about that cross action rear suspension is it smooth, comfortable, quiet, can it handle the rough choppy trails? Vs a 137 slide action.
Thanks keep up the great videos.
That’s a great question. Having ridden both 9000’s, I would pick the 137. The Cross Action is okay for trail riding, but it’s not an improvement over the Slide Action for trail riding. The Riot is a compromise. I thought I would like the off-trail capability, but have not found many opportunities. The majority of off-trail I do is for ice fishing, and the 137 would get me where I need to go 90% of the time.
The Riot needs more ski pressure to counteract the understeer caused by that long skid. On my 8000, that means it’s a very delicate balance between understeer and steering effort. For trail riding, I have it set up as light as I can make it without giving up steering effort and it’s still not as light as a regular ZR.
With Electronic Power Steering on the 9000’s, that’s not an issue. However, EPS on the Riot exposes just how much understeer there actually is. You can find the limits of adhesion quicker on the Riot. It’s easier to make the 137 9000’s go where you want to go, with or without EPS. That big motor will get an unsuspecting rider into trouble in a hurry, and the combination of shorter track, coupled skid and better ski pressure balance of the 137 gives you time to react.
On the Riot 9000, I found myself needing to think ahead on trail. In a straight line, the 146 gives it an advantage for traction, it’s better in moderately deep snow, and it does bridge bumps well. But, the 137 is the trail winner.
I’ve heard of Riot owners swapping out the seat, too. The Riot seat is living room sofa soft, and that makes it more difficult to shift your weight. I have to work at it, to corner as well as a regular trail sled, and the inside ski still lifts more often.
I hope that helps. The 998 turbo is buttery smooth and the power is addictive. I can see why it’s such a popular choice. For me, price was a deciding factor and still is. But, if it wasn’t, I’d go with that engine any day.
Can’t wait thanks for the video!!!!
Great Review Bob!
Good review that said I have a.18 zr8000 I think I'll keep it
Great sled, I like the ZR 8000 a lot.
A 1.75" on trails is going to get hot in any modern chassis without fresh loose snow or scratchers down at certain speeds. Either slow riding or fast and straight riding. Even with scratcher go fast enough it all misses the exchangers. 1.25 seems to be the best for cooling but also track studs help and scratchers if really icy but much less that 2" off trail is pointless and I wouldn't stud anything over 1.5". Length not much to do with in my personal experience. My 2" 146 will get hot if not managed as would have my 1.5" x 136. My 1.25 x 136 will if conditions are really poor but rode pure ice and rain with studs and scratcher and was fine. Now my 1.25 x 129" lake XC racer never got hot with studs but was just a idiot light so no clue actual temps.
Excellent points!
Sounds like they’ve really focused on innovation and product development
It's awesome!
Seat looks pretty hard- hopefully they have a options for none race days.
It’s definitely firm, and I wonder if I could ride all day on it. The longest we rode was maybe 2-3 hours and it was fine. The thing I liked about it is how easy you can shift your weight. Because it’s firm, you don’t have to lift your weight off the seat to move around, just slide a bit. I’d rather have this seat than the one on my 21 Riot.
@@ponycarfan Think I like something in the middle. Nice video keep them coming.
I would put Duraflex ice scratchers on it regardless because I would forget the stock scratchers down 😂
Yeah, I have been known to back up with the scratchers down! 😂
When you say temp issues are we talking above 140? Also does it cool down fast if you run it in some deep snow.... im on the fence my 2020 SKS 850 is almost perfect but I'm a CAT GUY!!!
I got the temp light to come on. A quick dive into powder next to the trail resolved it. Had I dropped the scratchers, I probably wouldn't have a problem.
@@ponycarfan okay sounds good I'm on the fence I want a new cat but I don't know...
My next in machine is the hard-core alpha one
Awesome sled!
How tall are you? I'm 6-1 and can't tell how tall you are at 6:51 just information for seat comfort, great video.
I’m 6’3”. When I saw the seat, I thought it was way too small, that’ll never work. When I sat on it and started riding, I realized it was perfect. If you watch the “casting call” video that Cat put out today, all of the riders basically said the same thing, even though we were all different heights.
@@ponycarfan Thanks!
I run a summit 154x2.5 and don’t have any cooling issues even on hard pack if I have set of scratchers I’d hoped cat would get a better cooling for there long tracks .
Cat ships the Riot with scratchers, and I do use them (did not use them on the Catalyst). The Riot is a special beast, because it lives in between a mountain sled and a trail sled. They put a standard “trail” heat exchanger in it, but it’s way back at the end of the tunnel. People have speculated that it’s far enough back that snow just doesn’t get up there as easily as the trail sleds. I suspect the Catalyst Riot is set up the same way. With scratchers, it’s not a problem. But, I don’t like using scratchers when I’m riding in front of someone else, so I don’t always use them.
Why are you riding a mountain sled on the trails?
@@CCH-R That's actually a good question. The Riot isn't actually a mountain sled - the previous Riot was a 70/30 or maybe even 80/20 trail sled-biased cross over. The Riot X was the opposite. The new Catalyst Riot is probably a lot closer to the mythical 50/50 crossover. Still needs to ride trails, and do it well.
@@CCH-R because to ride off trail in my area you have to run a certain amount of trails and I can only afford one sled currently
@@ponycarfan riot X is the mtn version but regular does my point was it should handle trails temps better than a straight mtn sled as it’s intended purpose.I tried the 50/50 thing and decided better to go straight mtn and buy a trail sled when I have the cash personally.
I currently have a 2014 ZR9000 Turbo and have been waiting for a new model for a long time. I would like to order one, but I am concerned about going from the 1100 Turbo engine to a 600. Have you ever ridden the Turbo and if yes, do you think going to a 600 would be a let down?
Also, I have always owned 129 inch models, so I am wondering if you were able to compare the longer Riot to the Catlyst ZR 129 and 137 models? How does the Riot handle on trails compared to the shorter ZRs?
I have ridden a 2020 Thundercat and a 2024 Thundercat, both with the 998 turbo. They’re not in the same league as the 600. However, the Catalyst is so much lighter that it makes riding fun.
If you ride a lot of wide and straight trails, you’re going to miss the power. If you ride a lot of forests, narrow and winding trails, then you’ll appreciate how easy the Catalyst can corner. It’s a tough call. The power of the turbos I’ve ridden is addictive. However, the Catalyst is a lot easier to handle.
For track length, I would stick with a 129 or 137 - the Riot will push a bit in the corners. The Catalyst isn’t as bad as my 21 Riot, but it’s still harder to corner with that long track. Hope that helps!
@@ponycarfan It definitely helps! I do mostly trail riding on groomed trails, but I also love to ice fish, so I am wondering what the Catalyst is like in the deeper snow.
Did you ride it in any deeper snow to see how fast it could go?
@@BrockoM No, I didn't. The only "off trail" we did was when the group stopped and I pulled over. Was riding the Riot 9000 and as soon as it dropped off into deep snow, the front end sank and I got stuck. 😂 For ice fishing in the Midwest where I live, you'd probably be okay with a 1.25" lug track, but I'd probably buy the 137 ZR and put a 1.6 Cobra on it so I could go pretty much wherever I wanted.
@@BrockoM you'll only love the turbo over the 600 when you hit a lake or when you need to buy more 2 smoke oil. Otherwise sleds are way more fun when they are lighter.
We need an 850
In the Catalyst, that would be a complete weapon on the snow! I’d trade my 8000 in a heartbeat!
so the overheating... i'm curious, how often did it over heat going 40-50mph on the same trail? any liquid sled at 20mph is going to overheat. i have a 22 riot, and have to drive like an old lady to overheat it. just curious more that criticism as i'm looking into the 858 riot currently.
The trails were freshly groomed, and we weren't riding aggressively. In my opinion, the Catalyst Riot cooling is about what I'd expect from my 21 under the same conditions.
@@ponycarfan just seeing this, appreciate the reply. Did they remove the tunnel cooler?
@@MikeMartinOutDoors It's a different design and after looking into it, I prefer the new approach. My 21 Riot 800 has a front exchanger and a rear exchanger, connected by a set of pipes. The rear exchanger tends to bridge over with ice on hard-packed trails, causing the coolant temp to rise until I stop and knock the ice off.
The Catalyst Riot has a very similar cooling system as the ZR's except longer. Instead of having a rear heat exchanger, the Catalysts have mini exchangers running the full length of the tunnel and connected by a pipe in the back. I think this makes it much more resistant to an ice bridge across the tunnel. Even if one is created, it only extends part way down the tunnel, leaving the rest exposed. Any bumps will dislodge the ice, making it a self-clearing system, whereas my Riot is not. Still has a front exchanger.
I got a factory tour last fall and got to see them assembling the tunnels. The new cooling design makes sense when you see it and that's why I think it's better.
Either system seems vulnerable to ice bridging if trail conditions are freshly groomed, super smooth and hard-packed, and especially when it's unusually cold. On my 21, I expect it below zero, never happens at 20F.
I never got a chance to stop and check the tunnel during the photo shoot and can't be sure. However, I'll bet this is what happened during our trail ride with the Riot. I'm no longer worried about it, and believe the system will be scaled correctly for the 858.
Great that Cat has made a sled to get youth introduced to sledding.
The Blast is a great sled, bridges the gap between a kids sled and full size. When I think of single cylinder youth sleds, I think if the Elan, and the Blast is much more refined than that (as it should be, the Elan was designed 50 years ago).
Looks like a new gauge cluster on that sled, any details on it!? Also are you ordering a new Cat?
You can't play the video yet, can you? I've never done a premier before.
To answer your questions... the new display looks nice. They didn't teach me how to use it, so I'm actually curious about what Cat says about it. It does display hand and thumb warmer settings all the time, which is nice. It's really tempting to order one, they are very, very nice.
@@ponycarfan no not yet, I just can see the display in the thumbnail you used is all. I will be watching the video as soon as you release it.
That’s for taking all the time and effort to do this video! Much appreciated.
Yes thank you, you’ve made my decision to snowcheck one easy!
Is the rear skid any different than the old riot?
From what they told us, I think it's about the same. They made a few changes, but it's not a redesign.
If you could do a review without mentioning Ski-Doo-Doo that would be greeeeaaat.
😂
i am the only one seeing a big c°°° on the mountain? its nothing about cat man here,because im not.. im confuse 🤒 good job arctic cat 🤟
Ok so you shall pay what, 14 grand for a sled that overheats? That's nuts. I know they got rid of radiators in the mid 1990's but in my era the LC El-Tigre 6000 leafers only overheated if you lost coolant or leaned it out too far. Why they can't figure out a way to install a radiator in the nose for slow hard running blows my mind. I get these days weight reduction is gospel but not everyone buys a sled for mountain climbing. Makes as much sense as removing the fan from my car.
I hear ya. There's a delicate balance between weight and sufficient cooling. My 2002 Polaris never overheats, but it's a tank. I think the Riots seem more prone to low snow conditions than the ZR's. I was riding a sled that rolled off the factory floor a few days before and it's possible there was air in the lines. But, I deal with the same temp issues on my 21 Riot, and it just seemed par for the course. It's weird that the aftermarket doesn't provide a solution.
Does it run like shit like the 2022 8000 Riot
😂 No, that I can say for sure.
According to my buddy and every cat owner the riots ride better than any other brand. I used to bleed green myself til I rode other brands and I've rode the riot and it's the same old tank since 2012. It blows my mind how 2 opinions can differ. The cat feels heavy, steers heavy and seems to almost to nothing well compared to the other 2 brands yet cat owner think differently 🤔
@@jromem7313 True, what people think is good or bad is very subjective. I know what you mean about the Riot. I liked it, because it cornered better than the Axys Assault I test rode. And, the price was right - that was a huge factor. But, when you look at what the competition has been doing, it’s amazing. The state of snowmobiling has never been better. The Catalyst ups the game for Cat, and I hope they can capitalize on this new energy.
@ponycarfan to bad they dropped the ball and not put out at least an 800. Won't even get one for 2 more years so there's that. Doesn't matter how good the 600 is guys want 800 or bigger they may be out of business before it comes out. Not sure what they were thinking on that deal but they blew it in my mind. Waited 10 years and then wait another 2 for a motor idiots
@@jromem7313 I know the subject was hotly debated within the company. From my day job, I know enough about the development process to understand why the decision was made. There were people on both sides, and neither side was wrong, in my opinion.
Lol, Polaris and Ski - doo are screwed they spent millions developing big cc's and turbos. When all you really need is a good 600!
Those big engines pay the bills, nothing wrong with that. Cat has one in the wings, and I’m hoping they can show the competition a trick or two next year.
Ur high if you don’t think cat is working on a forced induction setup or an 850+cc motor
@@sleddheadxp800r Absolutely!
Yea right. The 24 doo videos are all over, getting beat to death in chest deep powder. Cats are shown driving down a trail.
@@kenchiison4570 My videos aren't sponsored by Cat and aren't a product of their marketing team. My role during the photo shoot was trail riding, and that's what I'm sharing. I'm sorry that I don't make off trail videos, but there are a lot of people who do.
Ski Doo obviously has a lot more money to spend on advertising, and they should have with their market share. They do a great job blanketing social media with ads.
I thought it was a 700?
Compared to a ZR 6000, I would say that’s what it felt like. They tweaked the engine, and may have gained a few ponies, but the main thing is what they did to the Catalyst to make it perform better. It works well!
Overheating on a snowmobile is just crazy. Bring back fan cooled motors. I ran a fan cooled phazer in the mountains in 50 degree temps without overheating. Most trail riding is under 60 mph anyway.
I agree. I know more HP equals more heat but you’d think they would figure out a better heat exchanger system
Unfortunately, I think the problem is the EPA, they don’t like those 2-smokes, and the only way to get them to run cleaner is to push them past the limits of a fan cooled sled. I miss those engines, so much easier to work on.
People just need to figure out how to hit some snow 🤦♂️ of course it overheats when ya stick to a hard trail duh!
That thing looks like it does nothing but dart
Not at all! I never had a problem with darting.
How much do they weigh?
That's a really good question, and I don't know. We heard that 50 pounds lighter was the goal, but the engineers at the photo shoot didn't say whether they got that much or not. I haven't seen anything posted online about weight yet.