Thank you for your positive response, Robert. I encourage you to move forward with your impulse to learn the entire symphony. Each movement is so rewarding for the performer and listener. It will be a great gift to your audiences when you are able to present the entire work. Best wishes!
I definitely agree with everything that was said in this video! I feel like most people appreciate and believe that the toccata sounds best when it is played so you can actually hear every note, been played slow it’s almost kind of romantic... Making it really appropriate for weddings and not super scary, Like when a certain.... (cough cough)....Diane Bish plays it
I appreciated your discussion. I had to learn the Toccata about six years ago for a wedding recessional after decades of avoidance. Although I wasn’t as rigorous in my slow practice as you, it certainly helped. You’ve got me thinking about getting the whole symphony out...
Thank you for your positive response, Robert. I encourage you to move forward with your impulse to learn the entire symphony. Each movement is so rewarding for the performer and listener. It will be a great gift to your audiences when you are able to present the entire work. Best wishes!
Many many thanks for your thorough explanations - with my self-found solution of left hand's problem in measure 8... Kind regard's from "Bach country"!
Wonderful Advice. I my self am a big fan of the Widor Tocatta. It's always a turn off to me when organist play the piece way to fast. So much better slower and to hear the right hand playing along with the left hand both in perfect sync.
Thanks for your feedback, Paul. I'm glad that you resonate with this approach to the Toccata. It is always a challenge to take well-known works and to look at them with an objective and fresh perspective. I hope that the tide will turn eventually on this exhilarating piece. Let's spread the word!
Thank you for this video! You inspired me to take on this piece that I have always loved, but was a bit scared to try to learn! The question I have is - why does Widor call for crossed hands for the entire last part of the piece? WOuldn't it be easier to play it all with the higher notes in the right hand, lower notes in the left?
I'm glad to know that you have been inspired to add this to your repertoire! It is so satisfying to listen to and to perform. Your question about the crossing of hands is, indeed, a very interesting one. I have taken considerable time to consider many aspects of the question and have come up with the following conclusions and observations: 1. It would be completely possible to learn and play the sixteenth-note arpeggiations with the left hand, from half way through measure 66 to the second beat of measure 74, and making the transitions from right hand to left hand, and back again, in these measures would pose no significant technical challenges. However, I find that the sixteenth-note arpeggiations of the harmonies are more natural and comfortable for the right hand. This reality, on its own, should not necessitate the crossing of hands, but it does make the crossing seem more natural. 2. The most compelling reason I find to cross hands has to do with habits of hand-eye coordination that probably have a neuromuscular basis. Most of the musicians I have worked with for many years find reading a right-hand part from the top manual staff and a left-hand part from the bottom manual staff (regardless of which keyboard each hand is physically playing) to be much more natural and intuitive than the other way around. (This preference does not seem to be connected in any statistically significant way with whether the performer is right-handed or left-handed.). So, to make the visual presentation of the notes conform more with this natural and intuitive preference, the sixteenth notes would need to be transitioned onto the bottom manual staff around measure 66, and back again to the top manual staff, around measure 74, with the accompanying chords transitioning to the top manual staff and back. Especially because the sixteenths have been present on the top manual staff for close to five minutes by this point in the piece, making such transitions in the printed music on the page could present additional challenges that are greater than becoming comfortable with crossing one's hands. If the disposition of the music were left exactly as it is, and the performer was asked to simply change hands at the appropriate moments, that, too, (I've now tried it many times.) feels jarring and incongruous with what has come before and what must follow in the final five measures of the movement. In conclusion, I believe that with lots of time and effort, we could learn to play the measures in question without crossing hands. However, for me, it is a lot simpler and infinitely easier to learn to cross hands, as written. I do not claim to know the mind of Widor or to suggest that these were his reasons for the hand crossing, if he even pondered your question, at all, but it is fascinating to consider why it ended up this way.
When Ravel wrote his famous Bolero it was too slow and other conductors were right on insisting playing it faster. Widor's original slow tempo in Toccata was the right tempo and the interpreters made a mistake to play it much faster than what Widor preferred.
Not an organist (contra-bass trombone many years ago), but in my uninformed opinion, the Widor Toccata should never be played so fast that the sound becomes a smear or a wash of noise, thus the tempo depends on the acoustics and reverberation of the concert space. I have heard precisely one recording one time (and I can't recall the performer)in which the last note of the final arpeggio was allowed to die away before the final amen, as written in the first edition score I have seen. I liked that and I listen for it when I come across a recording I have not heard before. Your comments on tempo appear to be in agreement with my personal prejudices
I really appreciate your knowledge and skill, but there are some components to the advice given which feel a bit extra. It isn't necessary to play the entire chord on m. 8 ... it happens so quickly- it doesn't make sense compromising proficiency if it means getting that doubled "c-natural" .. also, doesn't the articulation change from room to room? I think organists focus way too heavily on old recordings, rule books, and "what the composer wanted" over the integrity of their own ear. It's great to be informed, but it can be overdone. Regarding "slow" practice - the brain can't really learn patterns which occur in quick succession if practiced too slowly; it thinks of it as a completely different piece of music, embedding the slow coordination into the neurocircuitry in ways that can actually inhibit muscular efficiency when playing at a faster tempo. It's important to break the coordination down bit-by-bit, like a golf swing, or any other intricate motion ... but, impulse practice, in short sessions, proves extremely effective. Playing a pattern a little under tempo with the correct use of the muscles meant for THAT tempo and coordination lets the brain feel and understand the bigger picture and can download it much better. Some of the most effective practice happens away from the keyboard. If we can imagine playing the music, the motor cortex becomes engaged the same way it would if the piece were actually being played!
I love the idea of organists quietly looking at this during Easter worship, during the sermon so they're ready for the postlude.
"Not meant to be a blur!"......words of musical insight and wisdom.
Thank you. 😊🎶
Thank you for your positive response, Robert. I encourage you to move forward with your impulse to learn the entire symphony. Each movement is so rewarding for the performer and listener. It will be a great gift to your audiences when you are able to present the entire work. Best wishes!
I definitely agree with everything that was said in this video! I feel like most people appreciate and believe that the toccata sounds best when it is played so you can actually hear every note, been played slow it’s almost kind of romantic... Making it really appropriate for weddings and not super scary, Like when a certain.... (cough cough)....Diane Bish plays it
What is the "Cough cough" supposed to mean?
I appreciated your discussion. I had to learn the Toccata about six years ago for a wedding recessional after decades of avoidance. Although I wasn’t as rigorous in my slow practice as you, it certainly helped. You’ve got me thinking about getting the whole symphony out...
Thank you for your positive response, Robert. I encourage you to move forward with your impulse to learn the entire symphony. Each movement is so rewarding for the performer and listener. It will be a great gift to your audiences when you are able to present the entire work. Best wishes!
Many many thanks for your thorough explanations - with my self-found solution of left hand's problem in measure 8... Kind regard's from "Bach country"!
Thank you for your feedback, Michael. It is very helpful to know what you have found to be helpful and useful in this series. Alles gute!
Wonderful Advice. I my self am a big fan of the Widor Tocatta. It's always a turn off to me when organist play the piece way to fast. So much better slower and to hear the right hand playing along with the left hand both in perfect sync.
Thanks for your feedback, Paul. I'm glad that you resonate with this approach to the Toccata. It is always a challenge to take well-known works and to look at them with an objective and fresh perspective. I hope that the tide will turn eventually on this exhilarating piece. Let's spread the word!
Nice,
Thank you for this video! You inspired me to take on this piece that I have always loved, but was a bit scared to try to learn! The question I have is - why does Widor call for crossed hands for the entire last part of the piece? WOuldn't it be easier to play it all with the higher notes in the right hand, lower notes in the left?
I'm glad to know that you have been inspired to add this to your repertoire! It is so satisfying to listen to and to perform. Your question about the crossing of hands is, indeed, a very interesting one. I have taken considerable time to consider many aspects of the question and have come up with the following conclusions and observations: 1. It would be completely possible to learn and play the sixteenth-note arpeggiations with the left hand, from half way through measure 66 to the second beat of measure 74, and making the transitions from right hand to left hand, and back again, in these measures would pose no significant technical challenges. However, I find that the sixteenth-note arpeggiations of the harmonies are more natural and comfortable for the right hand. This reality, on its own, should not necessitate the crossing of hands, but it does make the crossing seem more natural. 2. The most compelling reason I find to cross hands has to do with habits of hand-eye coordination that probably have a neuromuscular basis. Most of the musicians I have worked with for many years find reading a right-hand part from the top manual staff and a left-hand part from the bottom manual staff (regardless of which keyboard each hand is physically playing) to be much more natural and intuitive than the other way around. (This preference does not seem to be connected in any statistically significant way with whether the performer is right-handed or left-handed.). So, to make the visual presentation of the notes conform more with this natural and intuitive preference, the sixteenth notes would need to be transitioned onto the bottom manual staff around measure 66, and back again to the top manual staff, around measure 74, with the accompanying chords transitioning to the top manual staff and back. Especially because the sixteenths have been present on the top manual staff for close to five minutes by this point in the piece, making such transitions in the printed music on the page could present additional challenges that are greater than becoming comfortable with crossing one's hands. If the disposition of the music were left exactly as it is, and the performer was asked to simply change hands at the appropriate moments, that, too, (I've now tried it many times.) feels jarring and incongruous with what has come before and what must follow in the final five measures of the movement. In conclusion, I believe that with lots of time and effort, we could learn to play the measures in question without crossing hands. However, for me, it is a lot simpler and infinitely easier to learn to cross hands, as written. I do not claim to know the mind of Widor or to suggest that these were his reasons for the hand crossing, if he even pondered your question, at all, but it is fascinating to consider why it ended up this way.
When Ravel wrote his famous Bolero it was too slow and other conductors were right on insisting playing it faster. Widor's original slow tempo in Toccata was the right tempo and the interpreters made a mistake to play it much faster than what Widor preferred.
Why all the background noise?
Heaters, or else the organ blower mechanism.
Not an organist (contra-bass trombone many years ago), but in my uninformed opinion, the Widor Toccata should never be played so fast that the sound becomes a smear or a wash of noise, thus the tempo depends on the acoustics and reverberation of the concert space.
I have heard precisely one recording one time (and I can't recall the performer)in which the last note of the final arpeggio was allowed to die away before the final amen, as written in the first edition score I have seen. I liked that and I listen for it when I come across a recording I have not heard before.
Your comments on tempo appear to be in agreement with my personal prejudices
At 5:36 I'm losing the will to live.............
I really appreciate your knowledge and skill, but there are some components to the advice given which feel a bit extra. It isn't necessary to play the entire chord on m. 8 ... it happens so quickly- it doesn't make sense compromising proficiency if it means getting that doubled "c-natural" .. also, doesn't the articulation change from room to room? I think organists focus way too heavily on old recordings, rule books, and "what the composer wanted" over the integrity of their own ear. It's great to be informed, but it can be overdone. Regarding "slow" practice - the brain can't really learn patterns which occur in quick succession if practiced too slowly; it thinks of it as a completely different piece of music, embedding the slow coordination into the neurocircuitry in ways that can actually inhibit muscular efficiency when playing at a faster tempo. It's important to break the coordination down bit-by-bit, like a golf swing, or any other intricate motion ... but, impulse practice, in short sessions, proves extremely effective. Playing a pattern a little under tempo with the correct use of the muscles meant for THAT tempo and coordination lets the brain feel and understand the bigger picture and can download it much better. Some of the most effective practice happens away from the keyboard. If we can imagine playing the music, the motor cortex becomes engaged the same way it would if the piece were actually being played!