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I did a summer course of kendo when I was a kid. I learned a lot about physical and mental discipline, and it was overall a fun experience I got to share with my siblings and cousin. Beyond that, I agree that there isn't much connection to samurais and medieval martial arts.
During Karate sessions, I noticed something similar. There was a point when crying at our home you would be bashed by our dad. HOWEVER in karate, it was not bashed, but encouraged to work through it without stopping the kid or making them feel bad. That day, I realized, while I did not like karate, it did help reinforce things.
I had a friend who practiced kendo and offered to teach me so he can have an easy training partner.. he immediately retracted his offer the moment I, as a pure leftie, held the shinai with my left hand and foot forward, that was completely ridiculous to me..
I being left handed have used that to win many duels in HEMA and very very many skirmishing solo flanking manuvers because when they face to meat me they get confused and dont realize in time that I will stab spear to spear not spear to shield. Altho while in the middle of a formation in a skirmish I will for the purposes of a holding a proper shield wall hold by weapons as if I was right handed.
@@Thesandchief The dominant hand is always on top for swords. Sliding your hands and changing them is only if you use 2 hands on a pole weapon. And if you do sword and spear its a formation set up where everyone needs to hold the spear and shield in the same hands to not leave any gaps in the line.
The irony is that if you had choosen judo, it would be closer to sumurai training. It is modern but the roots from unarmed combat training are there. The main reason that there is pretty much zero stricking is that it is usless against an enemy wearing armor.
I don't totaly agree with you : they are some area (less protected) you can strike to make dammage to the opponant. It won't incapacitate him but can be usefull.
@@sebr9974 With armour , its risky. If you miss, even a little, you could break your hand. On the other hand if you hoist your armoured opponent over your shoulder and slam him on the ground , he 's going to be sorry he came after you. If you don't use your tanto to finish him off.
@@justtetsuo7175 You are propably refering to Atemi Waza, even without competition they were very specific and for the most part complentory to the grapling. Leg graps is a different issue but still a thing in Kodokan Judo which you can learn in Japan.
I started kendo about a year ago and I love it. This video makes all very valid points though, its a sport with some roots in sword fighting, it really is not like how the samurai fought. Although I feel what it does offer in a modern setting is the mindset of sword fighting, well sort of as we aren't actually using a sharp object of course. It teaches how to perform under pressure and what it meant for a samurai to have a sharp mind because any mistake could mean the end of your life. Its sort of keeping the spirit of samurai battle alive in a modern and safe setting.
You are absolutely right! Kendo is a lifelong mental challenge so it's not for those who just fell for it watching anime. Kendo emphatically is on a simple idea - an opponent can teach you about your weaknesses in 3 minutes what you would learn by 3 years practicing alone.
@@metakarukenshi that's not a generic statement. it only talks about the place or dojo you are training. for example low level are high on ego but as you go higher it disappers. like in japan hardly ego is an issue with people (its strict rules that wears people out). anyways you should be ready to go to a new dojo until you find someplace you can call home (dojo or place). just step in, enjoy the kendo and go home. no time for BS.
@@sid25s I did kendo in australia where finding a new dojo involves moving entire towns away. and I know that in Japan it's different and it comes down to personal experiences, but for my personal experience I found the opposite, the Lower you are the less ego and the higher you go the more ego is involved. Kendo in my experience even if you were on holiday to another town and stopped into a new dojo even just to watch is considered rude as you need permission from your current sensei. the higher ranking Sensei in my life that werent japanese always had an unbearable ego and would happily tell you how you should disreguard the instruction of a higher ranking sensei cause they dont know anything.
@@sid25s The fact japanese have ritualized everything, even ego, does not mean it does not exist.. THey have developed literally dozens and dozens of rituals in all kinds of things that are actually made to stroke someone's else ego...
I foil fenced in high school and when I got older,having not fenced for many years started sabre fencing which I thoroughly enjoyed and all three of my sons and my granddaughter practice, but in my old age I discovered Iaido and I must say for pure concentration physically, mentally and spiritually I, from my own experience have never encountered anything to compare. My Iaido practice has helped me maintain my sanity during the Covid lockdown as needn't leave my home to do it. Thank you Metatron, your videos have also been great for helping me maintain my equilibrium in these times, again thank you and be safe.
I love the approach you take with this! Too often I see people who get very tribal and seeing you break down practical reasons for your preference without just taking a dump on kendo is very refreshing
I've been practicing kendo for about 4 months now. I personally did got hooked on the idea of anime and samurai but I soon realized the difference. I also soon realized I liked the mental headspace that I was in when practicing it. I probably will switch to iaido at some point, because my dojo offers both, and alternate. Kendo for the sport and the discipline, Iaido to actually learn to grasp a katana. But yeah, extremely valid reasons and worht considering.
I did kendo and foil fencing briefly. Left them both because I got fed up with the focus on sports rather than practical swordplay. I wanted to learn how to be a swordsman, not a sportsman. I was researching how to learn real swordplay when I discovered Kenjutsu. So I wanted to learn that, sadly there was no clubs anywhere NEAR me. So I couldn't do it. Then whilst on RUclips about a year later I looked up "how to use a sword" or something similar and discovered HEMA. I knew instantly this was what I had been looking for. That was probably 6 or 7 years ago now. Haven't looked back since. Though I would still do Kenjutsu if there was a local club, preferably one with sparring.
I feel ya man. those sensieas and their secrets keeping it in the Dojo. Though to be fair a living tradition is preferable. Nothing against the reconstruction tradition that HEMA is but I fear for HEMA's quality control in the long run
@@alexanerose4820 Can't really do much about HEMA not having living tradition for the most part aside from a few systems like Military Sabre. Reconstruction is our only option. But to be honest, most "living traditions" are "stuck" *in* said tradition at the expense of personal progress. As for HEMA's quality control, well I don't know what you mean.
This is why I got into HEMA. I'm completely new to martial arts as a whole but I was drawn to HEMA because it was the closest application to actual sword/weapon combat I could find. For the large part nearly everything is a target and most techniques are legal in competition, depending of course on the competition, with some even including grappling/ringen should the situation arise. The school I've been studying with focuses less on the "historical" aspects of HEMA (ie adhering to plays and techniques found in the manuscripts from the masters) and more on the ideals of studying actual combat techniques which has been a bit of a change compared to the past year I spent learning from a friend. I enjoy HEMA though because from my understanding it's pretty accepting of the multitude of styles and techniques and I've even seen it branch into practicing against other weapon focused martial arts. I hope that as it grows it develops into something akin to MMA in that it's focused on combining multiple styles and practices to create an effective combatant.
Interesting note though, Kendo lets you pressure test your skills while most kenjutsu schools have let go of sparring. Also, modern kendo is highly influenced particularly by Hokushin Itto Ryu which influenced the specific footwork and grip of the shinai.
Very good and concise overview about the comparisons between classical styles of Japanese swordsmanship and kendō but, as a long-term practitioner of kendō, iaidō, and jōdō (been getting into HEMA over the past couple of years), I would add a couple of points. Firstly, while the vast majority of kendōjō do indeed focus heavily on competition and the sportified style of kendō, there are sensei out there who focus more on good, solid technique and (relatively) old-school kendō. Of course, they won't teach the breadth of techniques and stances that you'll find in traditional ryūha (it's still got to be usable for gradings and competitions) but their focus will be on strong and effective technique. Secondly, although kendō will indeed not teach you to use a Japanese sword, if paired with a traditional style, it will provide an excellent sense of timing, distance, and pressure that you can import into your koryū training. Just my two yen.
@@markkrousos5011 It's a reference to an older video on the channel, where Metatron discusses reasons why you wouldn't want to attack a knight's horse in a charge.
I practiced Kendo and Iaido, both for 2 years. For me, kendo is good for stress relief, you go to the dojo, you scream and slap others in the head and in the end you feel relieved at peace. Iaido is more reassuring, the series of strokes, all ritual and tradition that comes with art. In short, there are 2 arts that complete each other.
Yeah, I understand that kendo initially developed as a standardised kenjustsu system used by the Meiji era police since conscripts were performing poorly against pro-Shogunate samurai. After swords fell out of favour it developed into more of a sport. Especially after WWII since it's practice as a martial art was initially banned during the occupation.
I've started studying Kenjutsu (ryushin shouchi ryu, a form of jigen ryu, which itself is descended from Katori Shinto Ryu) in New York and I really love it, your channel has inspired me to pursue japanese martial arts, and I can't thank you enough
I really like this video, it just make things clear for everyone, I practice kendo and i can confirm that kendo is good for doing excercise, relaxing and having fun, its like a hobby, Of course if you are looking for something really serious and historical accuarate Kenjutsu or HEMA are a better choise.
I got lucky when I tried Kendo. I had only been in Kendo for about 6 months when the instructor was addressing the class explaining that Kendo is not learning how to fight with a sword, but that it was more about inner development, this explanation was tied to some larger point he was making. I don't know if I would have figured it out on my own at that time. I was glad for his explanation, because I wanted to learn how to fight with a sword.
(I know this is a old video but i hope you read this comment) Ive been practicing kendo for about 20 years now (or something like that, I dont even remember) and Ive had a somewhat successful kendo "career" if you will, never been the best around but I had my share in tournaments, even been selected for some international tournaments a couple of times in my days of young, Im not saying this to brag or anything, this is nothing to brag about really compared to my teammates that really are strong and dedicated kendo guys, not like me haha, I say this to put my comment in context as someone that has never been the best or never have put the most dedicated effort in to it, im FAR from a kendo fanatic as many people are, but at the same time had my share of winning a couple of medals and shared keiko (combat practice) with literally hundreds of different people from all around the world and top-ranked senseis. in kendo my philosophy is just to say "yes" to anything (that I can afford) and just go with the flow, and trough the years that gave me some experience after all. anyway, I agree a lot about what you said, specially about the importance of actual combat practice, and the fact that kendo and kenjutsu are very different in all the aspects you mentioned, specially in the "sport" deppartment BUT they both share the same fundamentals (also koryu or "old" martial styles, many other armed and unarmed MA and even european MA) like timing, centerline and distance so what you learn in kendo CAN be applied in kenjutsu and vice versa even if, as you said, the techniques, movements and ruleset are completely different from one another, BUT to understand that and being able to apply that takes many many years and I understand that after just 3 years of practice you see both as disconnected. Ive known kenshi that won medal after medal (mostly young people) but dont know and couldnt care less about kendo kata or even proper footwork, but that only last until you are about nidan or sandan, but why? why is it in kendo that a 70 year old or even older sensei can beat a 20 year old kid without even breaking a sweat? is this somewhat related to the BIG difference there is between kendo and kenjutsu? Ive asked this question many times to many high ranked sensei that at the time, I tought I understood but now I know that I didnt. the answer in a nutshell is that kendo and kenjutsu (as many other armed ans un-armed martial arts) share the same fundamentals like the center line, timing, distance, all that sort of stuff, and I said aha! ok thats why a kendo master can beat a younger, stronger and faster opponent, well... yeah but no. the answer, I think, is in "seme", I know you know what seme is, is putting pressure in to your opponents guard and spirit, and thats there I think the link between kendo and kenjutsu (and mostly all MA) lies. since the begining of my training I heard about it and read about it but I never knew enough to start to understand it, this is why I feel that my kendo "career" started 5 years ago when I passed 4th dan, after more than 10 years of practice and started to really focus in seme, the first time you do it RIGHT you realize that every previous time you THOUGHT you were doing it right you were actually FAR but FAR from it and. thats when I realized how FAR FAR FAR away I am from being good at kendo. so at the end it all comes around to the fundamentals of kendo and kenjutsu, Im not talking about how to do proper footwork or how to grip the shinai, but the fundamentals of "seme", so from this point of view what we know as the "basic" fundamentals is actually the hardest to learn and the most "advanced" stuff like the waza is actually the "easy" part (maybe not "easy"but rather the "less difficult" part). so yeah it is true that you wont be able to apply most of the kenjutsu techniques in kendo, but the fundamentals like center line, distance, timing and "seme", are mostly the same. "seme" comes first and THEN the tecniques and stances and everything else, if your seme is strong you will cut. Is like when Pele (the soccer player) was asked about his goals and he said "I first make the goal and then kick the ball" in kendo is the same, seme is the what makes the goal and your attack techniques or oujiwaza (counter-techniques) is just kicking the ball. so yeah is absolutely true that most kenjutsu waza cant be applied in a kendo match, but its also true that it doesnt really matter. now I know why my sensei tought me so many years ago that it was so important to go to tournaments and "in a tournament your objective is to win", not becouse winning is important, but you can learn so much about a real sword combat if you go to each combat with your mind set for "live or die" instead of "win or loose" even if, as you so rightfuly said, the kendo scoring system is super restrictive and with scoring points in mind, but that doesnt matter, you will still be learning the swordmanship fundamentals and ALSO the MINDSET you need to have to face an opponent and this can ONLY be learnt trough combat, regardless of how different the basic movements are from kendo and kenjutsu. you can argue that kendo is not "real" combat and that is true, but such thing as "real combat" really doesnt exist in ANY martial art, not even kenjutsu. the only way to experience real combat is to pick up a sword and to have a "live or die" combat with someone else and that hopefully will never happen, what kendo does is to acknoledge that reality. no real sensei will tell you that in kendo you will learn to fight a katana duel, but what you will really learn are the technical, physical and psychological fundamentals of sworfighting that can only be learnt trough full-contact combat. and thats what discourage many new practitioners, like yourself, but sadly to understand this and go beyond it takes more than 3 years of practice. people comes with unrealistic expectations of what kendo is and this discourages them to keep going. Ive seen this many times and usually this happens around the first, the third year or fifth year of practice. Ive seen MANY times people quitting kendo following exactly the same argument that you just said in your video. even I had the same toughts and when I asked my sensei about this he said that I didnt understand because I needed to do more combat (keiko) practice, and he was absolutely right. metatron I really like your videos, they are fun and in many ways we have a very similar way of thinking, I also try to keep everything as objective as I can, I had to give it a lot of thought and even had to dust off some old kendo books to come up with this comment, also sorry about my grammar English is a second language, anyway, I hope you read it. keep it up noble one!
@@hbkusi from my point of view absolutely, and not only that, when I was young I also practiced karate, taekwondo, aikido and kickboxing, all of those unarmed combat systems share the same fundamentals, I mean even if the basic movements are completely different from different MA, even if they are from different backgrounds i.e. western v/s oriental MA, they all roughly follow the same basic fundamentals: distance, timing and center line. they also have different names for concepts that in the end are pretty much the same like what we call in kendo "seme" or "zanshin" and stuff like that. and that goes for European martial arts too. if you are in a sworfight and you manage to take control of the center line, with proper distance at the right moment you WILL make the cut, regardless if you are an Olympic fencer or a kendo or kenjutsu guy or a HEMA practitioner, fighting with a rapier or a longsword or a shinai or if you are in a tournament with X or Y set of rules, with or without armor or whatever, the same goes for unarmed fighting styles. thats why I criticize the argument against competitions or rules in tournaments, people generally have that opinion because they are not experienced enough in martial arts to look beyond a given rule set or fighting style. thats why in a tournament your objective is to win, not for the sake of winning but for the sake of learning. please dont get me wrong, with this Im not saying that all fighting styles are equally effective, we all know thats not the case. Im just saying that they roughly share the same fundamentals. ps: Im sorry about my bad wording in the previous post, I read it now and even I found it very confusing, I think I had too many things to say and ended up saying nothing. I edited it to make it a little bit more clear, I would be glad if you could read it again.
You are talking about M-1 Medieval. I prefer this once more than HEMA, HEMA score system is bad, they treat swords like instant kill lightsaber which 1 gentle touch is gameover.
@@hoanglinhle4468 Search for HEMA continuous fencing, that's HEMA but without the hit-stop part, pretty much the two combatants continue to fight even if they get hit and the points are revealed at the end.
@@hoanglinhle4468 Not the kind of grappling you do in Jiu Jitsu.... Perhaps something like Judo would serve you well, where you learn to throw or trip your opponent, that would allow you to pull your dagger out and stab the throat perhaps but Jiu Jitsu isn't going to help you against a knight in plate armor lol
I totally agree!! Thanks for sharing your opinions. I started my swordmanship life with Haidong Gumdo and I loved it until i was unable to afford the Dan Grade examinations. After a while, the management of the Haidong Gumdo federation became just a business and started giving away certifications even to unprepared practitioners. Then I stepped into Kendo and didn't really like the "sport" aspect of it, even if they say it's not a sport. I am only sharing my opinion but being into other martial arts, the sensation of stepping into a Kendo dojo is 100% competitive. Nowadays I'm a Yoga and Taichi instructor and something that I can relate with what you say is that I found out that what I really liked is just the philosophical aspect of martial arts (not Kendo itself). I was debating myself about whether I should go back to Kendo or not because my girlfriend is a Kendoka and has being offering me to join in. After this video I'm glad to have a clear mind and will be in touch with Kendo just from an spectators view. 🙏🏿
Totally agree with Metatron here. Kendo is the sport version of swordfighting, hence a lot of techniques were taken out and how to defend in actual fighting. You can still defend yourself with it, but the bad habits of training in a rule based sport for street defense is just asking for trouble. It's the same with olympic fencing tbh. Same with Aikido, the founder said so himself that you're not to use it for competition but for honing your spirit/mind. And yet western practitioners still try to make it work in a competitive environment, fail, and get disillusioned by it. In short, training with a different purpose than the philosophy of the discipline they are trying to master. If you want to learn actual Japanese swordsmanship, learn kenjutsu or iaijutsu not kendo. If you want to learn western fencing, don't do olympic fencing but study HEMA instead. Same with FMA, if you want to learn for fighting with blades go traditional Arnis/Kali/Eskrima and not WECAF (sport version). Edit: Just know what purpose you're training for and choose the appropriate discipline. You don't train with a slingshot to learn how to fight with a gun.
Good on you for being open and honest about your initial motivations to start, why you stopped, and most of all, not dissing kendo! "You should do kendo because it's going to make you a better person. You should do kendo because it's a physical, mental, and even spiritual activity. You shouldn't do kendo because you want to know how to hold a katana or because you like the samurai. If that's the reason, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons."' ^^^Great statement!
Very interesting. I've never thought a lot about that, but that explains a lot about my experience. I played kendo for more than a dozen years (and I would do for more and more, if I hadn't some personal problems that forced me to stop), but I never cared about samurai or Japan, I don't even know a lot about that. I started and went on for years just because I wanted to practise a sport where there was an actual sparring and I found a wonderful sensei to learn from (and he wasn't Japanese, too, by the way 🙂 !!). During the years I practised kendo, I saw tons of boys starting to train that were totally into this samurai and Japanese things, but they often didn't last long.
Good point! Katori Shinto Ryu is the way to go. But it takes a long time and a good teacher to understand and learn to apply the techniques outside of kata.
the full samurai experience is found in the combination of kendo and iaido. Kendo gives you the sparing iaido gives you the traditional use of a blade. Also all the kendo practitioners i met know how to hold a katana unless you think bokuto are a modern thing and not made for simulating the katana to train with so you dont end up sliced up. kendo will teach you controlling space and distance.
That covers the sword part of the samurai experience. A samurai needs to be proficient in sword, spear, bow, and riding. So the full samurai experience would be something like Kenjutsu + Sojutsu + Kyujutsu + Bajutsu. Or, more easily accessible: Kendo + Jukendo + Kyudo + regular riding lessons.
I started for the same reason you did. It was 34 years ago. I still do it. I agree with you about the relation with the "samurai world", but the need to improve myself, and the feeling of satisfaction after a good training, and the friends I met in the many dojo I practiced were good reasons enough to keep going. But you made a good analysis.
I started practicing Kendo like 2 weeks ago, so far I have been liking it, I like that it has an sparring component to it compared to other japanese sword martial arts, tbh with I started Kendo because of Samurais, which will only let me with Iaido as an option in my city, but I really want to prove my self and be competitive, while Iaido is more personal. Kenjutsu is not available here in Colombia and I would distrust someone saying they are a Kenjutsu master over here.
@@Ianmar1 I have no idea but I will be going this saturday to check out, maybe I will end up practicing both Kendo and Iaido although Idk if that will affect me competitively speaking in Kendo.
@@andresgallego5727 It probably won't help, but I don't see it hurting either. The Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei promotes kendo and iaido as "two wheels on a cart". A cart with only one wheel is not a very useful cart. Iaido has a sword but does not have an opponent, thus the emphasis is on control of the sword. Kendo has an opponent but does not have a sword, thus the emphasis is on control of the opponent.
Kendo…. Practicality is regarding your style. If you want to train practicality, concentrate getting in, and getting out as fast as you can. The strikes… kote, men, do. Uh….. yea. SUPER EFFECTIVE Self Defense. When the shinai is a real sword, it’s a deadly form of self defense. Look at the original StarWars. They were using a Kumai stance for Obi Wan Kenobi (kinda) :) I ADORE kendo. I’ve been training for a year now. It’s HARD. My Sensei’s are Japanese, so it’s VERY challenging at times. They don’t mess around.
I practiced Aikido, Kendo, Naginata and Kyudo at Ritsumeikan University in Kyoto for about 3 years, some 12 years ago. Kendo and Naginata's fun, cuz like you said, there's full-contact sparring. I did look around for Kenjutsu schools, and found a few, but they were very niche compared to the others that I was learning.
This sounds SO familiar. I've never been to Japan but I had pretty similar experiences years ago. (Basically didn't find kendo satisfying because it was sportified and had to find an instructor in kenjutsu and iaijutsu.)
I once watched a program on NHK about sports and there was an kendo 8th dan examination and i think it's got one of the weirdest atmosphere. At that point in 8th dan it becomes a mind game. Not only that you have to compete against people with decades of experience you also have to put up with everyone's bullshit, judges included.
I fully agree to your criticism on Kendo. It's way to far remote from real martial arts.. on the other hand it's a nice and very intense sport to practice. BTW The lack of edge-alignment is one of the major problems in Kendo if you want to swing a real sword. The shinai is just a "stupid stick"
I also studied Kendo, but I got hit by a car and had to quit. Too much brain slosh after the accident, After I healed I did 5 years of Aikido, till the brain slosh interfered and for the last 13 years it has been Iaido. I still love it.
@@DomgrathPW Impact trauma, after the big hit to the head (I was wearing a helmet and got hit on my moped) I couldn't take a "men uchi" without becoming too dizzy to continue. I could do Aikido for a while, but after 5 years I couldn't do myokemi rolls any more without vertigo either. Nothing in Iaido hurts me head, I can do this.
@@DomgrathPW Shit happens, I'm over 60 now anyway, kendo wouldn't be a good idea at my age anyhow. Iaido is good. One has to do something and I love swords enough to want to know how to use one without embarrassing myself before others who know. I have seen too many idiots with blades from BuddyK who lacked even the most basic clue...
I partially agree. For a lot of people who are interested in samurai and swordsmanship, kendo is the closest thing they have to a gateway to that realm. Kendo is far from typical kobudo, but there's still definitely a lot to gain from it. I don't have any experience doing kenjutsu. I've studied it vicariously, but I studied a couple styles of kenjutsu in its stead. And while I prefer kenjutsu 100%, I do recognize some shortcomings (depending on your goal).
I remember trying kendo for about a year once and quitting for these very reasons- years later I returned to it and love it for what it is instead of my original expectations Something my sensei said to me: doing iaido is great to learn how to use and handle a sword; but kendo is important so that you learn how to lose, more of a test of skill and discipline -also for what it’s worth, precursors to kendo did exist during the tokugawa shogunate as he had strict regulations on war
I practiced Kendo for 6 years. I loved it. My left heel, not so much. In the last couple years, repeated stress and pain took me out of it. I still miss it and greatly appreciate the years of self-improvement it provided me. It was also a nice way to engage in aspects of swordsmanship being that there weren’t any other weapon-focused arts available, or which interested me. True. It’s not Kenjitsu, but it’s as close as it gets in today’s world. Sigh….
I had been doing kendo for about 2 years and I had similar experience. Kendo is fun, it helped me to improve my reflexes, speed, physique, reading distance etc. All of that are very important stuff (maybe the most) for any fighting but Metatron is right, kendo went a little bit different way. Btw. there is a place in Tokyo called Castle Tintagel, where people train kenjutsu but also HEMA, european martial art. They have sparring every week and tournaments and they do also armor sparring like buhurts etc. That is right, you can actually try fighting long sword vs katana, halbert vs naginata (plastic, cuz Japan is very strict about cold weapons), finally find an answer to a question who is better - knight vs. samurai? (imho none, it depends on the fighter).
Very interesting and informative to watch. You did a good job in explaining the different styles techniques, philosophies and then added in your personal beliefs with experiences. After 15yrs of Nagareru, I've subscribed
I did "kumdo" for like a year. It was supposed to be the Korean version of samurai.... i think it's mostly made up. It was kind if a side class at the Taekwondo dojang I went to, it was just like 5 of us, so it was actually a lot of fun. The instructor split the lessons between forms with the wooden sword and some sparring with the bamboo sword, and for halloween we chopped pumpkins 🎃
Haidong kumdo? Goryu kumdo? The kumdo which I usually think of is kendo minus sonkyo plus two kata and some mythology which has since fallen out of fashion about it not being the sport of the Japanese occupation.
This video is perfect for people who want to know which one to practice! But when talking about kendo and Jodan-no-kamae you just can't start practicing it in your first day of kendo. Seme is basically the concept of manipulating your oponent to attack or protect himself whenever you like, that helps you know which attack you are going to perform. Jodan-no-kamae it's not based on your oponent's reaction... it's based on your Seme which is easier to understand in Chuden. Usually when you hit 1st Dan in Kendo you start your Seme training because with no Seme you won't hit 4th or even 3th Dan because in lower ranks you haven't developed your Kiai and Seme-ashi yet. Training Jodan in your first day may make your training even harder than it already is and confuse you with many concepts that are hard to understand that you haven't experienced yet in Keiko. Most of Japanese Sensei are more likely to get upset with you when you try to learn Jodan or even just ask for a Keiko with them. They usually think that if you are trying to learn another stance like Jodan or Nito your Chuden is already very strong and if you show them that it's not, you are usually yelled at for not respecting their Dojo and embarrass yourself with such a low level kendo. I'm practicing Kendo now for more than 10 years and now I'm starting to develop my Jodan-no-kamae AGAIN because I started when I was 2nd Kyu and It finally bored me because I thought it depended on your oponent's reaction too! Now that I am 3th Dan, Jodan-no-kamae just became way easier and way more fun than before and it helped a lot in my Chuden's development. Using Seme correctly is a total game changer and most of the times you won't even need to rely on your speed or strenght as long as you have good timing and Seme. I really like your videos. Keep it up! Sorry for my bad English... I'm not used to speak in english.
If you can found 1 school of kenjutsu anywhere that allows you to duel (training), please 100% send me their info. And If you really believe those cowards who refuse to duel can teach you about "Fighting", you have an extremely low standard.
@@hoanglinhle4468 I mean, you can look up "kenjutsu sparring" here on RUclips and see plenty of people doing it. I don't know how many of them come from a super-official kenjutsu lineage, but they're there, and Metatron mentioned in this video that a few schools do sparring.
@@InSanic13 - Send me 1 video of Kenjutsu school doing sparring and you win this conversation. Please don't send me videos of 2 random dudes playing around with bokken. - It is not "FEW schools", it is "ZERO schools" that do sparring.
@@hoanglinhle4468 yes, there is a lack of sparring in kenjutsu(as in many traditional martal arts) But i'd say that kenjutsu will still give you a better knowledge of actual sword fighting than kendo which is too focused on scoring points and not delivering effective cuts. It's not like you'll need kenjutsu to defend yourself anyway, so in this case i don't think sparring is that important, it's more about preserving the tradition.
Remember reading a spy book in the 80's about the lack of defending. The spy who knew how to actually fight with a katana overcame all the kendo practitioners by doing all the illegal moves, and more, that you pointed out. Got talked out of Kendo and into Jujitsu instead.
@SpaghettiToaster you might not be in a hairy situation and have the luxury to have a sword but you can easily obtain a wooden stick or stick like objects(possibly everyday work tools) and the same techniques you do with a sword will apply to those too!!!!
@@al-imranadore1182 Hardly the same. Sword technique involves tons of draw cuts that don't work with a stick. Probably the most useful parts will be stance and footwork. But really, if that's what you wanted to train for, you'd take a self defense class that deals specifically with those situations. Practicing a martial art is not about winning fights, but enjoying the art itself. If it also happens to be a competitive sport, then sure, it's also about winning fights, but again, that has very little to do with self defense. I feel like people conflate the ideas of martial arts, sports, and self defense ability. Yes, they overlap, but each is valuable on its own, regardless on how well it translates to either of the other two.
@SpaghettiToaster don't underestimate the sharpness and pointiness of a square shaped stick or 2/4, plus you could always hammer some nails and other small metal shanks on a wooden bat or a plank.
I don’t agree with deterring someone from kendo just because they initially joined from their influences being anime, video games, etc. Their love for kendo can develop as they train. My experience is similar with Iaido. I grew to love it, but my introduction to Japanese culture in this context was samurai history, anime, video games. Like yourself, I also enjoyed Bushido Blade. Also, I’m completely with you on sparring. I saw a Kenjutsu vs Kendo video that inspired me and I’m about to see which of my fellow students would be interested in sparring.
You do know that those are both kendo guys in the Kenjutsu vs Kendo video? The kenjutsu guy had a sandan in kendo and has since passed yondan whereas the kendo guy had a shodan and has since passed nidan. Be careful with your sparring. In kendo tenouchi is instantaneous so as to allow the shinai absorb the impact, while in iaido the tenouchi lasts for the duration of the cut. Whenever we allow the iaido guys in our dojo to hit us we feel this difference: the shinai cannot cut so the impact goes into our heads, wrists, etc.
I got into Kendo years ago for similar reasons , a general love of Japanese culture at the time and Anime of course . I lost interest after 4 years , again for almost the same reasons that you mentioned , and left around the 5th year because my Sensei left the Dojo and i didn't feel like continuing . Kendo is overall too rigid in my opinion , the way you have to move , the very few authorized hit zones , it's just not natural at all . That's why i picked up HEMA . I had to stop after a year , but when the pandemic is "over" i think i'll pick it up again , and be *that* person who brings Eastern swords into Western Martial Art :P
You are right, I practise Kenjutso for several years. I practice Martial Arts for 35 years, started when I was 7 years old. Started with Judo then Wu shu, Tae kwon do. The Japanese culture always fascinated me
Agree 100% What you do is Use a bogu set for pretection and shinai and practice kenjutsu Or use a boken to spar. My favorite is katori shinto Closer to battle field combat. Enjoyed the video
While I was practicing kendo someone took haso in our club and based on modern kendo rules it doesn't work well. Every target is open and every move is telegraphed
Hasso is basically applied as jodan. I saw someone win the sandan+ division in a local tournament win the tournament about 13 years agodue to an injury he suffered that day and he played hasso. You have to be just as physically and mentally aggressive as a jodan player to occupy the space.
This is a perfect video for me, because I've been looking to get into japanese swordmanship, and I think I will learn kenjutsu. But you said that even the most traditional kenjutsu is not exactly how the samurai fought back then, is there any sources on how the samurai really fought?
Most traditional kenjutsu trace their roots to those times, but due to the living lineage, they will all have changed some parts of it over time. At least that's what I think he meant. There are treatises written by samurai, but most of them haven't been translated, so unless you are fluent in archaic Japanese, it's gonna be a bumpy ride trying to get anything out of them. Kenjutsu schools usually preserve the original techniques in scrolls or books, but those are all still "secret" texts, so most of them aren't publicly available the same way as European treatises are.
For those that don't know seidokaikan karate produces most of if not all of Japan's highest level kickboxers. Seidokaikan for the longest time were the guys that also set up the k1 kickboxing championship.
I came into this ready and expecting it to be some random person complaining and was very happy to see otherwise. Good breakdown, keep up the good work!
I'd say that the same arguments can be used for Olympic style fencing as well. Olympic fencing is pure sport and not what you should pursue if you want to learn true swordsmanship. For that, HEMA is what you should look into. One other thing, Raff, are you going to do a review (or reviews) of Netflix's "Age of the Samurai". I'd love to hear your thoughts on the accuracy, or inaccuracy, of the show.
Fun fact about Kendo, pre WW2 Kendo had grappling as part of its curriculum. The idea is that you could still throw your opponent to the ground and use a tanto to stab your opponent.
Goddamnit Metatron ! I made a bet that your next video would be about Age of Samurai, the new show on Netflix. Just kidding, but Age of Samurai deserves some serious debunking !
@@jeffreygao3956 I am no expert, so I believe the facts presented are accurate enough, I could be very wrong. But the battles were so small ! Just some struggles into randow woods, only Nagashino and Sekigahara were portrayed as huge field battles. Okehazama looked like a brawl in a small camp, and not the bloody massacre it was. The houses and castles looked all the same and most actors were forgettable. But that's just how I feel. If you like it, great ! I just could not like it as much, but I surely did not hate it.
@@jeffreygao3956 I liked it as well but wished they would have started earlier, around the time of the Kamakura/Ashikaga shogunates. Instead it was basically just about the three unifiers at the end of the sengoku jidai
"[You should] do Kendo if you want to become a better person". As somebody who started practicing Kendo 15 years ago, I cannot agree more with what you said. I've seen plenty of people walking off because Kendo not matching their expectations derived mostly from anime and samurai media. Kendo is ultimately not as much about swordfighting as it is about making you the best possible version of yourself. All of the rest exists mostly towards that goal.
I'm curious as to what you mean by that, exactly? I haven't taken a single kendo class (and probably won't because there's none around and I'm poor, lol) but I've always heard that it's more of a self-improvement thing than a strict martial art. Is that purely because it necessitates the discipline that most "sports" do? Or, is it due to Kendo's alleged "spiritual" nature? Or, perhaps a combination...? Just curious about your thoughts on the experience. :)
@@thehackingburger3002 sure thing mate. So what I meant is that the purpose of Kendo is to make you a better person, i.e., someone who is humble, kind, generous, and perseverant. In Kendo we learn the principles of the use of the katana (emphasis on "principles"), not the whole variety of techniques you might learn in koryu (traditional schools), because that's the point: while the techniques we learn in Kendo were battle tested in the past, we use only a small amount of them so we can concentrate on a challenging training, both physically and mentally (and even spiritually if you stay around long enough). Using a sword is ultimately an excuse to make people grow, so is not a sport either: though Kendo competitions are certainly part of "the Way", they are that, just part of it. It is not about winning or loosing, getting silver or gold medals, but about overcoming challenges that are hard on purpose (for example, performing a technique in a very specific and strict manner), so you can take that to your everyday life and the way you interact with others. P.s: if there are no dojos near you I would suggest to look for "online Kendo Keiko" and the "From Zero to Shodan" series by Andy Fisher sensei, it's a great introduction to this Budo.
From what I understand, the roots of kendo go back to about 1700. This is a mere century after the battle of Sekigahara. It was developed as a adjunct to training by a kenjutsu school. So it isn't a reenactment of samurai combat, but it has many elements of a training technique used by some samurai. I suppose that's why they ask you to hit the target that you are supposed to aim for (men for instance) but ignore the angle of the neck, as you mentioned. If a samurai can hit one target in practice, he could certainly adjust and hit another target in combat. By the way, Metatron, did you study kata in your kendo studies? How different are they from the kenjutsu kata that you are currently studying? Thanks!
Here a long time kendo practicioner, I'd like to point some things. Its not like "kendo has nothing to do with samurai", it has, but its just a fraction (a basis for itto ryu) of the whole. Kendo origin is itto ryu and it certainly teach SOME actual swordmanship principles and technics. I.e. okuri ashi (the most used, but not the only footwork in kendo) was indeed used to certain extend in antiquity (i.e. while using hakama). Its main letdown for people who wants to learn samurai swordmanship are the limited valid targets, that also affect the whole framework (as the absence in keiko of some stances). But a good advantage is the full contact sparring and a clear system to decide victory. Nonetheless, it would be nice if you can combine it with other disciplines as iaido and/or kenjutsu. Cheers!
That's a pretty sweet O Yoroi you have there! I like the kabuto too. What I am interested in learning about are the various martial techniques of historical samurai - Bujutsu, I believe is the correct term. People forget that samurai did not use katana/tachi exclusively but also practiced kyujutsu, bojutsu, sojutsu, etc.
I practiced Kendo for over 30 years and generally agree with you. One thing that Kendo does bring is that you have to be determined to practice. Most of the time it is not pleasant and you are expected to fit in to the hierarchy, not easy for someone from a Western culture where you are told you can do anything you want.
A form of Kendo was already introduced in the Edo era as a form of practicing sword fight and as a nice past time activity. It's the sport that closest comes to Samurai combat as there is no sparring in kenjutsu.
Nice comment! Reading all these other comments, I think a lot of ppl have never done research on kendo lol. They don’t realize that it literally came out of the necessity fir sparring in kenjutsu, that kenjutsu schools created what later evolved into kendo lol...
@@estevanelmariachi1457 Exactly, and they modified these days that it has become a combat sport with rules that give each competitor the same chances. It's not meant to be for self defense as nobody carries katanas anymore. But it's still the sport that comes closest to Samurai combat with full contact sparring.
You'd face similar problems with learning martial Karate vs sports Karate. "You won't be able to use 80% of what you learn in Kenjutsu into Kendo, because the majority of the guards, and the moves, and the slices, and the attacks, and the parries that you will learn, that come from a more ancient tradition, are illegal in Kendo", this is just spot on when it comes to really any martial art that turns into a sport. I'd argue that maybe BJJ and Judo keep their martial side and sport side more closely related than other martial arts. And I'm speaking from my experience in those particular arts, so I have no idea if others martial arts (Muay Thai, Boxing, Western Fencing and whatnot) face the same problem. As usual, great video, my best regards to you Raffaello for all your good work.
Aikido and Judo both came from traditional Jujutsu. Morihei Ueshiba studied Daito ryu jujutsu and used his peaceful approach to create Aikido. Too bad that was a mistake because taking out the violence aspect of Aiki jujutsu made Aikido a joke in martial arts community now days
@@jaketheasianguy3307 A joke? It's an extremely enjoyable art to do. The only aspect of it that is a joke are the people who think that it is a practical form of combat, the same as in judo, kendo, boxing, wrestling and really any martial art except mma and actual military, police or self-defense combat training, which is a completely different thing from a martial art.
@@SpaghettiToaster It became a joke in modern martial art community because alot of Aikido practitioners keep calling their art deadliest self defense system, calling it better than other art...etc....Hell, i like Aikido, i even successfully used some of it's techniques in MMA sparring but the attitude and the approach to it of some practitioners turned it into a joke
I started Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu a few months ago. It's something I've always been interested in, but I never actually took the step. Then I met this girl I wanted to impress, so I started taking classes. Now I just love it, and I go to classes because I love it, and I don't really care about impressing anyone anymore. So maybe I started for the wrong reason, but my reasons changed, and now I stay for the right reason. I've never had so much fun getting my butt kicked.
Totally agree and totally honest. Also there is no doubt that the Kendo attacks hurt but I doubt that they would lunge at a person holding a live sharp katana.
I have been doing kendo for quite some time, and gotta say a couple of things if you don’t mind: I did start it because I liked history of samurai and the culture around it. I did find it to be much more strict than what I was expecting Still love it though. A couple of thing you noted about the chuudan stance being the main one, and that getting to joudan was prohibited, is because you don’t know how to fight against chuudan until you practiced with it first. Waki-Kamae is not used because it opens your kote massively but there are attacks that can be executed with a brief waki-kamae. The main scoring point is not men. It is all the points, it is just men represents the perfect cut in kendo. But you are encouraged to do all of them, especially one you start practicing oujiwaza and debana waza. No shade, but I would not discourage people from picking up kendo because they like the samurai and want to feel like one. My advice would be try it, see if you like it, because the philosophy of it is straight from the samurai. Again no shade on you man! You are doing great.
waki and hasso Kamae are useful when you're at a distance moving to your target, with both guard and flexibility, or when you are trying to conceal the length of your sword. In either stance you WILL need to go to either something of a chuudan or jodan first to strike. In that sense of course chuudan and jodan are the most fundamental and important. Now in modern kendo you already start at a close distance you don't need to move around, and you don't need to conceal your length of your shinai your opponent knows it already. Well anyone are sure to welcome to try hasso or waki no Kamae in a fight or whatever, they'll just find themselves back in chuudan or jodan the second before they actually need to strike.
Kendo was revamped after WWII to give it even more of a sporting element so that the occupational forces would allow people to start training in it again. It is rather common for yudansha kendoka to train in some form of koryu. Most common are iaijutsu and/or one of the forms of Itto Ryu which were among the most direct influences on kendo. Other koryu that include gekiken, and Shinto Muso Ryu Jo(jutsu/do) are also fairly common.
Why ppl who not boddering even to read kendo history talk so much trash on internet... Shinai and shinai uchi-komi introduced in many kenjutsu styles much be4 kendo appears. Also kendo was developed not 4 sport but 4 training police and military officers to replace european sabre fighting which use shinai and bogu 4 training as well... Heh so much to say but who cares
Wow, my kendo class didn't have a waiting period. Though they were probably not in a position to be picky. I miss those classes. I wish I could have stayed with them.
I saw the title and was like "didn't I watch this 5 years ago ?" but the timestamp was like 5 minutes ago. Who here E A R L Y ?
You Belkans are always up to no good!
@@sephiroth903 BELKA DID NOTHING WRO- *this message was removed by the Osean censorship association (OCA)*
@@jefflei215 OCA, their weakness is ███ ████, with ██████ ███████ ███████ And Extreme ███ █████ ███. Don't forget ██ █████, plus ████████████! **TOP SECRET** **REDACTED FOR YOUR PROTECTION ** EYES ONLY ** BY ӨƧΣΛП ᑕΣПƧӨЯƧΉIP ΛƧƧӨᑕIΛƬIӨП (ӨᑕΛ)
i think i got here early
I did a summer course of kendo when I was a kid. I learned a lot about physical and mental discipline, and it was overall a fun experience I got to share with my siblings and cousin. Beyond that, I agree that there isn't much connection to samurais and medieval martial arts.
During Karate sessions, I noticed something similar. There was a point when crying at our home you would be bashed by our dad. HOWEVER in karate, it was not bashed, but encouraged to work through it without stopping the kid or making them feel bad. That day, I realized, while I did not like karate, it did help reinforce things.
False
I had a friend who practiced kendo and offered to teach me so he can have an easy training partner.. he immediately retracted his offer the moment I, as a pure leftie, held the shinai with my left hand and foot forward, that was completely ridiculous to me..
I being left handed have used that to win many duels in HEMA and very very many skirmishing solo flanking manuvers because when they face to meat me they get confused and dont realize in time that I will stab spear to spear not spear to shield.
Altho while in the middle of a formation in a skirmish I will for the purposes of a holding a proper shield wall hold by weapons as if I was right handed.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 do y'all not practice both sides in HEMA?
@@Thesandchief Depends on the school/club. As another left handed, I drill with both hands, but when I can I'll spar as a left handed person.
@@Thesandchief The dominant hand is always on top for swords.
Sliding your hands and changing them is only if you use 2 hands on a pole weapon.
And if you do sword and spear its a formation set up where everyone needs to hold the spear and shield in the same hands to not leave any gaps in the line.
@@Thesandchief that's HEMA, but Kendo is strictly right handed..
The irony is that if you had choosen judo, it would be closer to sumurai training. It is modern but the roots from unarmed combat training are there. The main reason that there is pretty much zero stricking is that it is usless against an enemy wearing armor.
I don't totaly agree with you : they are some area (less protected) you can strike to make dammage to the opponant. It won't incapacitate him but can be usefull.
@@sebr9974
With armour , its risky. If you miss, even a little, you could break your hand. On the other hand if you hoist your armoured opponent over your shoulder and slam him on the ground , he 's going to be sorry he came after you. If you don't use your tanto to finish him off.
@@sebr9974
Koshiki No Kata
Look it up
Traditional kata practised against *armoured* opponents
Hit them with the heaviest thing around.....
The Planet
Judo actually initially had striking, but like leg grabs, it was removed to make judo more of “its own thing” rather than like wrestling or karate.
@@justtetsuo7175 You are propably refering to Atemi Waza, even without competition they were very specific and for the most part complentory to the grapling. Leg graps is a different issue but still a thing in Kodokan Judo which you can learn in Japan.
I started kendo about a year ago and I love it. This video makes all very valid points though, its a sport with some roots in sword fighting, it really is not like how the samurai fought. Although I feel what it does offer in a modern setting is the mindset of sword fighting, well sort of as we aren't actually using a sharp object of course. It teaches how to perform under pressure and what it meant for a samurai to have a sharp mind because any mistake could mean the end of your life. Its sort of keeping the spirit of samurai battle alive in a modern and safe setting.
Metatron: calls me a noble one
Me: he cares about me
rare Metatron: doesn't call me a noble one.
Me: huh? I though I was a noble one...
surprised Pikachu face eh? :D
Didn’t watch till the end? He says it... lol
@@RX7FDfreak I'm not talking about this video but the rare times he doesn't like in his first vids
You have displeased your idol! No more spell slots ...
You are absolutely right! Kendo is a lifelong mental challenge so it's not for those who just fell for it watching anime.
Kendo emphatically is on a simple idea - an opponent can teach you about your weaknesses in 3 minutes what you would learn by 3 years practicing alone.
agreed, I did kendo for 10 years and it was fantastic, it is however unfortunately riddled with Ego and people with supperiority complexes
@@metakarukenshi that's not a generic statement. it only talks about the place or dojo you are training. for example low level are high on ego but as you go higher it disappers. like in japan hardly ego is an issue with people (its strict rules that wears people out). anyways you should be ready to go to a new dojo until you find someplace you can call home (dojo or place). just step in, enjoy the kendo and go home. no time for BS.
@@sid25s I did kendo in australia where finding a new dojo involves moving entire towns away. and I know that in Japan it's different and it comes down to personal experiences, but for my personal experience I found the opposite, the Lower you are the less ego and the higher you go the more ego is involved. Kendo in my experience even if you were on holiday to another town and stopped into a new dojo even just to watch is considered rude as you need permission from your current sensei. the higher ranking Sensei in my life that werent japanese always had an unbearable ego and would happily tell you how you should disreguard the instruction of a higher ranking sensei cause they dont know anything.
@@metakarukenshiagree the higher the more ego
@@sid25s The fact japanese have ritualized everything, even ego, does not mean it does not exist.. THey have developed literally dozens and dozens of rituals in all kinds of things that are actually made to stroke someone's else ego...
I foil fenced in high school and when I got older,having not fenced for many years started sabre fencing which I thoroughly enjoyed and all three of my sons and my granddaughter practice, but in my old age I discovered Iaido and I must say for pure concentration physically, mentally and spiritually I, from my own experience have never encountered anything to compare. My Iaido practice has helped me maintain my sanity during the Covid lockdown as needn't leave my home to do it. Thank you Metatron, your videos have also been great for helping me maintain my equilibrium in these times, again thank you and be safe.
I love the approach you take with this! Too often I see people who get very tribal and seeing you break down practical reasons for your preference without just taking a dump on kendo is very refreshing
I've been practicing kendo for about 4 months now. I personally did got hooked on the idea of anime and samurai but I soon realized the difference. I also soon realized I liked the mental headspace that I was in when practicing it. I probably will switch to iaido at some point, because my dojo offers both, and alternate. Kendo for the sport and the discipline, Iaido to actually learn to grasp a katana. But yeah, extremely valid reasons and worht considering.
I did kendo and foil fencing briefly. Left them both because I got fed up with the focus on sports rather than practical swordplay. I wanted to learn how to be a swordsman, not a sportsman.
I was researching how to learn real swordplay when I discovered Kenjutsu. So I wanted to learn that, sadly there was no clubs anywhere NEAR me. So I couldn't do it. Then whilst on RUclips about a year later I looked up "how to use a sword" or something similar and discovered HEMA. I knew instantly this was what I had been looking for. That was probably 6 or 7 years ago now. Haven't looked back since. Though I would still do Kenjutsu if there was a local club, preferably one with sparring.
I feel ya man. those sensieas and their secrets keeping it in the Dojo.
Though to be fair a living tradition is preferable. Nothing against the reconstruction tradition that HEMA is but I fear for HEMA's quality control in the long run
I did epee and Kendo, but the longsword in HEMA is just where I landed as well and have similarily never looked back.
@@alexanerose4820 Can't really do much about HEMA not having living tradition for the most part aside from a few systems like Military Sabre. Reconstruction is our only option. But to be honest, most "living traditions" are "stuck" *in* said tradition at the expense of personal progress.
As for HEMA's quality control, well I don't know what you mean.
@@alpenjon Aye, Longsword is my fave, though I do some I:33 as well and I want to take up some polearm stuff, like Spear and Halberd.
This is why I got into HEMA. I'm completely new to martial arts as a whole but I was drawn to HEMA because it was the closest application to actual sword/weapon combat I could find. For the large part nearly everything is a target and most techniques are legal in competition, depending of course on the competition, with some even including grappling/ringen should the situation arise.
The school I've been studying with focuses less on the "historical" aspects of HEMA (ie adhering to plays and techniques found in the manuscripts from the masters) and more on the ideals of studying actual combat techniques which has been a bit of a change compared to the past year I spent learning from a friend. I enjoy HEMA though because from my understanding it's pretty accepting of the multitude of styles and techniques and I've even seen it branch into practicing against other weapon focused martial arts. I hope that as it grows it develops into something akin to MMA in that it's focused on combining multiple styles and practices to create an effective combatant.
I can relate with what you said, i personally had the same "problem" with kendo, although it was really fun practice it
Interesting note though, Kendo lets you pressure test your skills while most kenjutsu schools have let go of sparring. Also, modern kendo is highly influenced particularly by Hokushin Itto Ryu which influenced the specific footwork and grip of the shinai.
This is why I chose kenjutsu. Still very much a beginner though.
Thank you for clarifying the difference , amazing video , and I learned a lot from this , thanks.
Very good and concise overview about the comparisons between classical styles of Japanese swordsmanship and kendō but, as a long-term practitioner of kendō, iaidō, and jōdō (been getting into HEMA over the past couple of years), I would add a couple of points.
Firstly, while the vast majority of kendōjō do indeed focus heavily on competition and the sportified style of kendō, there are sensei out there who focus more on good, solid technique and (relatively) old-school kendō. Of course, they won't teach the breadth of techniques and stances that you'll find in traditional ryūha (it's still got to be usable for gradings and competitions) but their focus will be on strong and effective technique.
Secondly, although kendō will indeed not teach you to use a Japanese sword, if paired with a traditional style, it will provide an excellent sense of timing, distance, and pressure that you can import into your koryū training.
Just my two yen.
Well put. I think you should always practice something because you love doing it.
Because while we goofed around you studied the blade...and now have moved on?
Sorry had to.
Where is that from?
@@markkrousos5011 It's a reference to an older video on the channel, where Metatron discusses reasons why you wouldn't want to attack a knight's horse in a charge.
@@Anino_Makata Thank you my good man.
@@markkrousos5011 Just a noble one helping out another noble one.
I practiced Kendo and Iaido, both for 2 years. For me, kendo is good for stress relief, you go to the dojo, you scream and slap others in the head and in the end you feel relieved at peace. Iaido is more reassuring, the series of strokes, all ritual and tradition that comes with art. In short, there are 2 arts that complete each other.
Yeah, I understand that kendo initially developed as a standardised kenjustsu system used by the Meiji era police since conscripts were performing poorly against pro-Shogunate samurai. After swords fell out of favour it developed into more of a sport. Especially after WWII since it's practice as a martial art was initially banned during the occupation.
I've started studying Kenjutsu (ryushin shouchi ryu, a form of jigen ryu, which itself is descended from Katori Shinto Ryu) in New York and I really love it, your channel has inspired me to pursue japanese martial arts, and I can't thank you enough
I really like this video, it just make things clear for everyone, I practice kendo and i can confirm that kendo is good for doing excercise, relaxing and having fun, its like a hobby, Of course if you are looking for something really serious and historical accuarate Kenjutsu or HEMA are a better choise.
But there's no sparring on Kenjutsu is why i choose it over Kendo
I got lucky when I tried Kendo. I had only been in Kendo for about 6 months when the instructor was addressing the class explaining that Kendo is not learning how to fight with a sword, but that it was more about inner development, this explanation was tied to some larger point he was making. I don't know if I would have figured it out on my own at that time.
I was glad for his explanation, because I wanted to learn how to fight with a sword.
Yup same, was just looking to fight with non lethal weapons, immediately withdrew from Kendo and tried Hema, way more what I was looking for
(I know this is a old video but i hope you read this comment) Ive been practicing kendo for about 20 years now (or something like that, I dont even remember) and Ive had a somewhat successful kendo "career" if you will, never been the best around but I had my share in tournaments, even been selected for some international tournaments a couple of times in my days of young, Im not saying this to brag or anything, this is nothing to brag about really compared to my teammates that really are strong and dedicated kendo guys, not like me haha, I say this to put my comment in context as someone that has never been the best or never have put the most dedicated effort in to it, im FAR from a kendo fanatic as many people are, but at the same time had my share of winning a couple of medals and shared keiko (combat practice) with literally hundreds of different people from all around the world and top-ranked senseis. in kendo my philosophy is just to say "yes" to anything (that I can afford) and just go with the flow, and trough the years that gave me some experience after all.
anyway, I agree a lot about what you said, specially about the importance of actual combat practice, and the fact that kendo and kenjutsu are very different in all the aspects you mentioned, specially in the "sport" deppartment BUT they both share the same fundamentals (also koryu or "old" martial styles, many other armed and unarmed MA and even european MA) like timing, centerline and distance so what you learn in kendo CAN be applied in kenjutsu and vice versa even if, as you said, the techniques, movements and ruleset are completely different from one another, BUT to understand that and being able to apply that takes many many years and I understand that after just 3 years of practice you see both as disconnected.
Ive known kenshi that won medal after medal (mostly young people) but dont know and couldnt care less about kendo kata or even proper footwork, but that only last until you are about nidan or sandan, but why? why is it in kendo that a 70 year old or even older sensei can beat a 20 year old kid without even breaking a sweat? is this somewhat related to the BIG difference there is between kendo and kenjutsu? Ive asked this question many times to many high ranked sensei that at the time, I tought I understood but now I know that I didnt. the answer in a nutshell is that kendo and kenjutsu (as many other armed ans un-armed martial arts) share the same fundamentals like the center line, timing, distance, all that sort of stuff, and I said aha! ok thats why a kendo master can beat a younger, stronger and faster opponent, well... yeah but no. the answer, I think, is in "seme", I know you know what seme is, is putting pressure in to your opponents guard and spirit, and thats there I think the link between kendo and kenjutsu (and mostly all MA) lies. since the begining of my training I heard about it and read about it but I never knew enough to start to understand it, this is why I feel that my kendo "career" started 5 years ago when I passed 4th dan, after more than 10 years of practice and started to really focus in seme, the first time you do it RIGHT you realize that every previous time you THOUGHT you were doing it right you were actually FAR but FAR from it and. thats when I realized how FAR FAR FAR away I am from being good at kendo. so at the end it all comes around to the fundamentals of kendo and kenjutsu, Im not talking about how to do proper footwork or how to grip the shinai, but the fundamentals of "seme", so from this point of view what we know as the "basic" fundamentals is actually the hardest to learn and the most "advanced" stuff like the waza is actually the "easy" part (maybe not "easy"but rather the "less difficult" part). so yeah it is true that you wont be able to apply most of the kenjutsu techniques in kendo, but the fundamentals like center line, distance, timing and "seme", are mostly the same. "seme" comes first and THEN the tecniques and stances and everything else, if your seme is strong you will cut. Is like when Pele (the soccer player) was asked about his goals and he said "I first make the goal and then kick the ball" in kendo is the same, seme is the what makes the goal and your attack techniques or oujiwaza (counter-techniques) is just kicking the ball. so yeah is absolutely true that most kenjutsu waza cant be applied in a kendo match, but its also true that it doesnt really matter.
now I know why my sensei tought me so many years ago that it was so important to go to tournaments and "in a tournament your objective is to win", not becouse winning is important, but you can learn so much about a real sword combat if you go to each combat with your mind set for "live or die" instead of "win or loose" even if, as you so rightfuly said, the kendo scoring system is super restrictive and with scoring points in mind, but that doesnt matter, you will still be learning the swordmanship fundamentals and ALSO the MINDSET you need to have to face an opponent and this can ONLY be learnt trough combat, regardless of how different the basic movements are from kendo and kenjutsu. you can argue that kendo is not "real" combat and that is true, but such thing as "real combat" really doesnt exist in ANY martial art, not even kenjutsu. the only way to experience real combat is to pick up a sword and to have a "live or die" combat with someone else and that hopefully will never happen, what kendo does is to acknoledge that reality. no real sensei will tell you that in kendo you will learn to fight a katana duel, but what you will really learn are the technical, physical and psychological fundamentals of sworfighting that can only be learnt trough full-contact combat. and thats what discourage many new practitioners, like yourself, but sadly to understand this and go beyond it takes more than 3 years of practice. people comes with unrealistic expectations of what kendo is and this discourages them to keep going. Ive seen this many times and usually this happens around the first, the third year or fifth year of practice. Ive seen MANY times people quitting kendo following exactly the same argument that you just said in your video. even I had the same toughts and when I asked my sensei about this he said that I didnt understand because I needed to do more combat (keiko) practice, and he was absolutely right.
metatron I really like your videos, they are fun and in many ways we have a very similar way of thinking, I also try to keep everything as objective as I can, I had to give it a lot of thought and even had to dust off some old kendo books to come up with this comment, also sorry about my grammar English is a second language, anyway, I hope you read it. keep it up noble one!
What?
Perfection
@@hbkusi from my point of view absolutely, and not only that, when I was young I also practiced karate, taekwondo, aikido and kickboxing, all of those unarmed combat systems share the same fundamentals, I mean even if the basic movements are completely different from different MA, even if they are from different backgrounds i.e. western v/s oriental MA, they all roughly follow the same basic fundamentals: distance, timing and center line. they also have different names for concepts that in the end are pretty much the same like what we call in kendo "seme" or "zanshin" and stuff like that. and that goes for European martial arts too.
if you are in a sworfight and you manage to take control of the center line, with proper distance at the right moment you WILL make the cut, regardless if you are an Olympic fencer or a kendo or kenjutsu guy or a HEMA practitioner, fighting with a rapier or a longsword or a shinai or if you are in a tournament with X or Y set of rules, with or without armor or whatever, the same goes for unarmed fighting styles. thats why I criticize the argument against competitions or rules in tournaments, people generally have that opinion because they are not experienced enough in martial arts to look beyond a given rule set or fighting style. thats why in a tournament your objective is to win, not for the sake of winning but for the sake of learning.
please dont get me wrong, with this Im not saying that all fighting styles are equally effective, we all know thats not the case. Im just saying that they roughly share the same fundamentals.
ps: Im sorry about my bad wording in the previous post, I read it now and even I found it very confusing, I think I had too many things to say and ended up saying nothing. I edited it to make it a little bit more clear, I would be glad if you could read it again.
I remember having 2 kendo stick when I was younger, all they were used for was me and my brother hitting eachother with them, it was fun
Every kid should get to learn to play with shinai (responsibly). Some of my fondest memories of my youth were spent with one in my grubby little hands
In my experience with Kendo. My sensei often talked about the samuri and what we do that comes from them. It was an amazing cultural experience.
I would like a HEMA style jiu jistu based full contact combat sport. That would be amazing!
You are talking about M-1 Medieval.
I prefer this once more than HEMA, HEMA score system is bad, they treat swords like instant kill lightsaber which 1 gentle touch is gameover.
But Jiu Jitsu is just grappling. Jiu Jitsu already is a full contact combat sport lol
@@PotatoeJoe69
He is correct, grappling was the best way to finish of heavy armor opponent since swords can't cut armor.
@@hoanglinhle4468 Search for HEMA continuous fencing, that's HEMA but without the hit-stop part, pretty much the two combatants continue to fight even if they get hit and the points are revealed at the end.
@@hoanglinhle4468 Not the kind of grappling you do in Jiu Jitsu.... Perhaps something like Judo would serve you well, where you learn to throw or trip your opponent, that would allow you to pull your dagger out and stab the throat perhaps but Jiu Jitsu isn't going to help you against a knight in plate armor lol
I totally agree!! Thanks for sharing your opinions. I started my swordmanship life with Haidong Gumdo and I loved it until i was unable to afford the Dan Grade examinations. After a while, the management of the Haidong Gumdo federation became just a business and started giving away certifications even to unprepared practitioners. Then I stepped into Kendo and didn't really like the "sport" aspect of it, even if they say it's not a sport. I am only sharing my opinion but being into other martial arts, the sensation of stepping into a Kendo dojo is 100% competitive. Nowadays I'm a Yoga and Taichi instructor and something that I can relate with what you say is that I found out that what I really liked is just the philosophical aspect of martial arts (not Kendo itself). I was debating myself about whether I should go back to Kendo or not because my girlfriend is a Kendoka and has being offering me to join in. After this video I'm glad to have a clear mind and will be in touch with Kendo just from an spectators view. 🙏🏿
Totally agree with Metatron here.
Kendo is the sport version of swordfighting, hence a lot of techniques were taken out and how to defend in actual fighting. You can still defend yourself with it, but the bad habits of training in a rule based sport for street defense is just asking for trouble. It's the same with olympic fencing tbh.
Same with Aikido, the founder said so himself that you're not to use it for competition but for honing your spirit/mind. And yet western practitioners still try to make it work in a competitive environment, fail, and get disillusioned by it. In short, training with a different purpose than the philosophy of the discipline they are trying to master.
If you want to learn actual Japanese swordsmanship, learn kenjutsu or iaijutsu not kendo. If you want to learn western fencing, don't do olympic fencing but study HEMA instead.
Same with FMA, if you want to learn for fighting with blades go traditional Arnis/Kali/Eskrima and not WECAF (sport version).
Edit: Just know what purpose you're training for and choose the appropriate discipline. You don't train with a slingshot to learn how to fight with a gun.
He’s the “it’s the art that’s not working, not me” guy!
Kendo is like chess.
Kenjutsu is like smashing your chess adversary's head with the chessboard.
😝
Good on you for being open and honest about your initial motivations to start, why you stopped, and most of all, not dissing kendo!
"You should do kendo because it's going to make you a better person. You should do kendo because it's a physical, mental, and even spiritual activity. You shouldn't do kendo because you want to know how to hold a katana or because you like the samurai. If that's the reason, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons."'
^^^Great statement!
Very interesting. I've never thought a lot about that, but that explains a lot about my experience. I played kendo for more than a dozen years (and I would do for more and more, if I hadn't some personal problems that forced me to stop), but I never cared about samurai or Japan, I don't even know a lot about that. I started and went on for years just because I wanted to practise a sport where there was an actual sparring and I found a wonderful sensei to learn from (and he wasn't Japanese, too, by the way 🙂 !!). During the years I practised kendo, I saw tons of boys starting to train that were totally into this samurai and Japanese things, but they often didn't last long.
casually showing off his warhammer army on the background. love your vids
Yes kendoka are masters of a limited fighting system that was invented for self improvement not combat. Good stuff mate 👍
Good point! Katori Shinto Ryu is the way to go. But it takes a long time and a good teacher to understand and learn to apply the techniques outside of kata.
the full samurai experience is found in the combination of kendo and iaido. Kendo gives you the sparing iaido gives you the traditional use of a blade. Also all the kendo practitioners i met know how to hold a katana unless you think bokuto are a modern thing and not made for simulating the katana to train with so you dont end up sliced up. kendo will teach you controlling space and distance.
That covers the sword part of the samurai experience. A samurai needs to be proficient in sword, spear, bow, and riding. So the full samurai experience would be something like Kenjutsu + Sojutsu + Kyujutsu + Bajutsu. Or, more easily accessible: Kendo + Jukendo + Kyudo + regular riding lessons.
I started for the same reason you did. It was 34 years ago. I still do it. I agree with you about the relation with the "samurai world", but the need to improve myself, and the feeling of satisfaction after a good training, and the friends I met in the many dojo I practiced were good reasons enough to keep going. But you made a good analysis.
I started practicing Kendo like 2 weeks ago, so far I have been liking it, I like that it has an sparring component to it compared to other japanese sword martial arts, tbh with I started Kendo because of Samurais, which will only let me with Iaido as an option in my city, but I really want to prove my self and be competitive, while Iaido is more personal. Kenjutsu is not available here in Colombia and I would distrust someone saying they are a Kenjutsu master over here.
Does the iaido dojo in your city have a koryu beyond the 12 ZNKR kata? Muso Shindo Ryu seems to be the most popular.
@@Ianmar1 I have no idea but I will be going this saturday to check out, maybe I will end up practicing both Kendo and Iaido although Idk if that will affect me competitively speaking in Kendo.
@@andresgallego5727 It probably won't help, but I don't see it hurting either.
The Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei promotes kendo and iaido as "two wheels on a cart". A cart with only one wheel is not a very useful cart.
Iaido has a sword but does not have an opponent, thus the emphasis is on control of the sword.
Kendo has an opponent but does not have a sword, thus the emphasis is on control of the opponent.
I'm so glad I found your video. Now that you explained kendo in detail, I will choose a differnt type. Kendo sounds to restrictive.
Kendo….
Practicality is regarding your style.
If you want to train practicality, concentrate getting in, and getting out as fast as you can. The strikes… kote, men, do. Uh….. yea. SUPER EFFECTIVE Self Defense. When the shinai is a real sword, it’s a deadly form of self defense. Look at the original StarWars. They were using a Kumai stance for Obi Wan Kenobi (kinda) :)
I ADORE kendo. I’ve been training for a year now. It’s HARD. My Sensei’s are Japanese, so it’s VERY challenging at times. They don’t mess around.
I practiced Aikido, Kendo, Naginata and Kyudo at Ritsumeikan University in Kyoto for about 3 years, some 12 years ago. Kendo and Naginata's fun, cuz like you said, there's full-contact sparring. I did look around for Kenjutsu schools, and found a few, but they were very niche compared to the others that I was learning.
*I wholeheartedly love this content here, cuts right to the point!* ⚔️
This sounds SO familiar.
I've never been to Japan but I had pretty similar experiences years ago. (Basically didn't find kendo satisfying because it was sportified and had to find an instructor in kenjutsu and iaijutsu.)
I once watched a program on NHK about sports and there was an kendo 8th dan examination and i think it's got one of the weirdest atmosphere. At that point in 8th dan it becomes a mind game. Not only that you have to compete against people with decades of experience you also have to put up with everyone's bullshit, judges included.
I fully agree to your criticism on Kendo. It's way to far remote from real martial arts.. on the other hand it's a nice and very intense sport to practice.
BTW The lack of edge-alignment is one of the major problems in Kendo if you want to swing a real sword. The shinai is just a "stupid stick"
I also studied Kendo, but I got hit by a car and had to quit. Too much brain slosh after the accident, After I healed I did 5 years of Aikido, till the brain slosh interfered and for the last 13 years it has been Iaido. I still love it.
Brain slosh?
@@DomgrathPW Impact trauma, after the big hit to the head (I was wearing a helmet and got hit on my moped) I couldn't take a "men uchi" without becoming too dizzy to continue. I could do Aikido for a while, but after 5 years I couldn't do myokemi rolls any more without vertigo either. Nothing in Iaido hurts me head, I can do this.
They allow cars in kendo now?
@@bellakaldera3305 That's awful, I'm sorry this happened to you..
@@DomgrathPW Shit happens, I'm over 60 now anyway, kendo wouldn't be a good idea at my age anyhow. Iaido is good. One has to do something and I love swords enough to want to know how to use one without embarrassing myself before others who know.
I have seen too many idiots with blades from BuddyK who lacked even the most basic clue...
I partially agree. For a lot of people who are interested in samurai and swordsmanship, kendo is the closest thing they have to a gateway to that realm. Kendo is far from typical kobudo, but there's still definitely a lot to gain from it.
I don't have any experience doing kenjutsu. I've studied it vicariously, but I studied a couple styles of kenjutsu in its stead. And while I prefer kenjutsu 100%, I do recognize some shortcomings (depending on your goal).
I remember trying kendo for about a year once and quitting for these very reasons- years later I returned to it and love it for what it is instead of my original expectations
Something my sensei said to me: doing iaido is great to learn how to use and handle a sword; but kendo is important so that you learn how to lose, more of a test of skill and discipline
-also for what it’s worth, precursors to kendo did exist during the tokugawa shogunate as he had strict regulations on war
I practiced Kendo for 6 years. I loved it. My left heel, not so much. In the last couple years, repeated stress and pain took me out of it. I still miss it and greatly appreciate the years of self-improvement it provided me.
It was also a nice way to engage in aspects of swordsmanship being that there weren’t any other weapon-focused arts available, or which interested me. True. It’s not Kenjitsu, but it’s as close as it gets in today’s world.
Sigh….
I had been doing kendo for about 2 years and I had similar experience. Kendo is fun, it helped me to improve my reflexes, speed, physique, reading distance etc. All of that are very important stuff (maybe the most) for any fighting but Metatron is right, kendo went a little bit different way.
Btw. there is a place in Tokyo called Castle Tintagel, where people train kenjutsu but also HEMA, european martial art. They have sparring every week and tournaments and they do also armor sparring like buhurts etc. That is right, you can actually try fighting long sword vs katana, halbert vs naginata (plastic, cuz Japan is very strict about cold weapons), finally find an answer to a question who is better - knight vs. samurai? (imho none, it depends on the fighter).
Very interesting and informative to watch. You did a good job in explaining the different styles techniques, philosophies and then added in your personal beliefs with experiences. After 15yrs of Nagareru, I've subscribed
I did "kumdo" for like a year. It was supposed to be the Korean version of samurai.... i think it's mostly made up.
It was kind if a side class at the Taekwondo dojang I went to, it was just like 5 of us, so it was actually a lot of fun. The instructor split the lessons between forms with the wooden sword and some sparring with the bamboo sword, and for halloween we chopped pumpkins 🎃
Haidong kumdo?
Goryu kumdo?
The kumdo which I usually think of is kendo minus sonkyo plus two kata and some mythology which has since fallen out of fashion about it not being the sport of the Japanese occupation.
This video is perfect for people who want to know which one to practice!
But when talking about kendo and Jodan-no-kamae you just can't start practicing it in your first day of kendo. Seme is basically the concept of manipulating your oponent to attack or protect himself whenever you like, that helps you know which attack you are going to perform. Jodan-no-kamae it's not based on your oponent's reaction... it's based on your Seme which is easier to understand in Chuden. Usually when you hit 1st Dan in Kendo you start your Seme training because with no Seme you won't hit 4th or even 3th Dan because in lower ranks you haven't developed your Kiai and Seme-ashi yet. Training Jodan in your first day may make your training even harder than it already is and confuse you with many concepts that are hard to understand that you haven't experienced yet in Keiko.
Most of Japanese Sensei are more likely to get upset with you when you try to learn Jodan or even just ask for a Keiko with them. They usually think that if you are trying to learn another stance like Jodan or Nito your Chuden is already very strong and if you show them that it's not, you are usually yelled at for not respecting their Dojo and embarrass yourself with such a low level kendo.
I'm practicing Kendo now for more than 10 years and now I'm starting to develop my Jodan-no-kamae AGAIN because I started when I was 2nd Kyu and It finally bored me because I thought it depended on your oponent's reaction too! Now that I am 3th Dan, Jodan-no-kamae just became way easier and way more fun than before and it helped a lot in my Chuden's development. Using Seme correctly is a total game changer and most of the times you won't even need to rely on your speed or strenght as long as you have good timing and Seme.
I really like your videos.
Keep it up!
Sorry for my bad English... I'm not used to speak in english.
TL:DR Kendo is a sport, not a historically accurate swordfighting system. Kenjutsu is probably what one looks for.
If you can found 1 school of kenjutsu anywhere that allows you to duel (training), please 100% send me their info.
And If you really believe those cowards who refuse to duel can teach you about "Fighting", you have an extremely low standard.
@@hoanglinhle4468 I mean, you can look up "kenjutsu sparring" here on RUclips and see plenty of people doing it. I don't know how many of them come from a super-official kenjutsu lineage, but they're there, and Metatron mentioned in this video that a few schools do sparring.
@@InSanic13
- Send me 1 video of Kenjutsu school doing sparring and you win this conversation. Please don't send me videos of 2 random dudes playing around with bokken.
- It is not "FEW schools", it is "ZERO schools" that do sparring.
@@hoanglinhle4468 How's this: ruclips.net/video/D7nUFpznK7E/видео.html
@@hoanglinhle4468 yes, there is a lack of sparring in kenjutsu(as in many traditional martal arts)
But i'd say that kenjutsu will still give you a better knowledge of actual sword fighting than kendo which is too focused on scoring points and not delivering effective cuts.
It's not like you'll need kenjutsu to defend yourself anyway, so in this case i don't think sparring is that important, it's more about preserving the tradition.
I am probably too old to start. Man I want to learn to move like that. The speed and the footwork are my favorite things to watch.
Remember reading a spy book in the 80's about the lack of defending. The spy who knew how to actually fight with a katana overcame all the kendo practitioners by doing all the illegal moves, and more, that you pointed out. Got talked out of Kendo and into Jujitsu instead.
Well who cares about how practical it is for winning fights anyway? When would you ever get into a self defense situation with a sword?
@@SpaghettiToaster read my other comment on being talked out of Kendo and into Jujitsu instead
@SpaghettiToaster you might not be in a hairy situation and have the luxury to have a sword but you can easily obtain a wooden stick or stick like objects(possibly everyday work tools) and the same techniques you do with a sword will apply to those too!!!!
@@al-imranadore1182 Hardly the same. Sword technique involves tons of draw cuts that don't work with a stick. Probably the most useful parts will be stance and footwork. But really, if that's what you wanted to train for, you'd take a self defense class that deals specifically with those situations. Practicing a martial art is not about winning fights, but enjoying the art itself. If it also happens to be a competitive sport, then sure, it's also about winning fights, but again, that has very little to do with self defense. I feel like people conflate the ideas of martial arts, sports, and self defense ability. Yes, they overlap, but each is valuable on its own, regardless on how well it translates to either of the other two.
@SpaghettiToaster don't underestimate the sharpness and pointiness of a square shaped stick or 2/4, plus you could always hammer some nails and other small metal shanks on a wooden bat or a plank.
I don’t agree with deterring someone from kendo just because they initially joined from their influences being anime, video games, etc. Their love for kendo can develop as they train. My experience is similar with Iaido. I grew to love it, but my introduction to Japanese culture in this context was samurai history, anime, video games. Like yourself, I also enjoyed Bushido Blade. Also, I’m completely with you on sparring. I saw a Kenjutsu vs Kendo video that inspired me and I’m about to see which of my fellow students would be interested in sparring.
Agreed
You do know that those are both kendo guys in the Kenjutsu vs Kendo video?
The kenjutsu guy had a sandan in kendo and has since passed yondan whereas the kendo guy had a shodan and has since passed nidan.
Be careful with your sparring. In kendo tenouchi is instantaneous so as to allow the shinai absorb the impact, while in iaido the tenouchi lasts for the duration of the cut. Whenever we allow the iaido guys in our dojo to hit us we feel this difference: the shinai cannot cut so the impact goes into our heads, wrists, etc.
I got into Kendo years ago for similar reasons , a general love of Japanese culture at the time and Anime of course . I lost interest after 4 years , again for almost the same reasons that you mentioned , and left around the 5th year because my Sensei left the Dojo and i didn't feel like continuing .
Kendo is overall too rigid in my opinion , the way you have to move , the very few authorized hit zones , it's just not natural at all .
That's why i picked up HEMA . I had to stop after a year , but when the pandemic is "over" i think i'll pick it up again , and be *that* person who brings Eastern swords into Western Martial Art :P
You are right, I practise Kenjutso for several years. I practice Martial Arts for 35 years, started when I was 7 years old. Started with Judo then Wu shu, Tae kwon do. The Japanese culture always fascinated me
So Kendo is basically like Japan's version of HEMA turned into Olympic Fencing.
Its just fencing, with some of the other things (Kenjutsu) being the HEMA equivalent.
Not Olympic fencing, but not HEMA, is between.
Agree 100%
What you do is
Use a bogu set for pretection and shinai and practice kenjutsu
Or use a boken to spar.
My favorite is katori shinto
Closer to battle field combat.
Enjoyed the video
While I was practicing kendo someone took haso in our club and based on modern kendo rules it doesn't work well. Every target is open and every move is telegraphed
Hasso is basically applied as jodan. I saw someone win the sandan+ division in a local tournament win the tournament about 13 years agodue to an injury he suffered that day and he played hasso.
You have to be just as physically and mentally aggressive as a jodan player to occupy the space.
I do wanna try my hand at kendo, I did the same with foil fencing. Though I do enjoy HEMA a lot more from a visual standpoint
This is a perfect video for me, because I've been looking to get into japanese swordmanship, and I think I will learn kenjutsu. But you said that even the most traditional kenjutsu is not exactly how the samurai fought back then, is there any sources on how the samurai really fought?
Most traditional kenjutsu trace their roots to those times, but due to the living lineage, they will all have changed some parts of it over time. At least that's what I think he meant. There are treatises written by samurai, but most of them haven't been translated, so unless you are fluent in archaic Japanese, it's gonna be a bumpy ride trying to get anything out of them. Kenjutsu schools usually preserve the original techniques in scrolls or books, but those are all still "secret" texts, so most of them aren't publicly available the same way as European treatises are.
@@penttikoivuniemi2146 oh... Allright then, good to know. Thanks for the reply:)
Ghost of Tsushima
For those that don't know seidokaikan karate produces most of if not all of Japan's highest level kickboxers. Seidokaikan for the longest time were the guys that also set up the k1 kickboxing championship.
Did not mention the most important reason for kendo - they have same cool looking equipment that makes for great Instagram photos :p
I have friends that did some kendo, I never had the time for it. Good to know if I ever do I should look for kenjutsu. Very informative. :)
Hi metatron. Can you make a video on sashimonos?(rear flags) That'd be awesome.
I think you broke it down correctly. I just started kendo 2 months ago and I like it a lot.
Positive comment
I came into this ready and expecting it to be some random person complaining and was very happy to see otherwise. Good breakdown, keep up the good work!
is this a repost? i swear i saw this a year or month ago
I've been training Judo until the Pandemic starts hitting. Never regret taking up Judo. I love it. Now I'm waiting for the class to open up back.
It's funny I've been benge watching ur videos and then u upload while I watching ur vids
This happens to me Everytime I rewatch a shit ton of his old vids
@@knightslayer6161 Fr
I'd say that the same arguments can be used for Olympic style fencing as well. Olympic fencing is pure sport and not what you should pursue if you want to learn true swordsmanship. For that, HEMA is what you should look into.
One other thing, Raff, are you going to do a review (or reviews) of Netflix's "Age of the Samurai". I'd love to hear your thoughts on the accuracy, or inaccuracy, of the show.
Fun fact about Kendo, pre WW2 Kendo had grappling as part of its curriculum. The idea is that you could still throw your opponent to the ground and use a tanto to stab your opponent.
Impressive! Thank you! 🍀🙏
Goddamnit Metatron ! I made a bet that your next video would be about Age of Samurai, the new show on Netflix. Just kidding, but Age of Samurai deserves some serious debunking !
And why is that? I thought it looked pretty good.
@@jeffreygao3956 I am no expert, so I believe the facts presented are accurate enough, I could be very wrong. But the battles were so small ! Just some struggles into randow woods, only Nagashino and Sekigahara were portrayed as huge field battles. Okehazama looked like a brawl in a small camp, and not the bloody massacre it was. The houses and castles looked all the same and most actors were forgettable. But that's just how I feel. If you like it, great ! I just could not like it as much, but I surely did not hate it.
@@jeffreygao3956 I liked it as well but wished they would have started earlier, around the time of the Kamakura/Ashikaga shogunates. Instead it was basically just about the three unifiers at the end of the sengoku jidai
@@kevinstachovak8842 That would actually be a good story.
The Shogunate has already made a video about that series, but I wouldn't object to the "Metaman" covering it as well.
"[You should] do Kendo if you want to become a better person". As somebody who started practicing Kendo 15 years ago, I cannot agree more with what you said. I've seen plenty of people walking off because Kendo not matching their expectations derived mostly from anime and samurai media. Kendo is ultimately not as much about swordfighting as it is about making you the best possible version of yourself. All of the rest exists mostly towards that goal.
I'm curious as to what you mean by that, exactly? I haven't taken a single kendo class (and probably won't because there's none around and I'm poor, lol) but I've always heard that it's more of a self-improvement thing than a strict martial art. Is that purely because it necessitates the discipline that most "sports" do? Or, is it due to Kendo's alleged "spiritual" nature? Or, perhaps a combination...?
Just curious about your thoughts on the experience. :)
@@thehackingburger3002 sure thing mate. So what I meant is that the purpose of Kendo is to make you a better person, i.e., someone who is humble, kind, generous, and perseverant. In Kendo we learn the principles of the use of the katana (emphasis on "principles"), not the whole variety of techniques you might learn in koryu (traditional schools), because that's the point: while the techniques we learn in Kendo were battle tested in the past, we use only a small amount of them so we can concentrate on a challenging training, both physically and mentally (and even spiritually if you stay around long enough). Using a sword is ultimately an excuse to make people grow, so is not a sport either: though Kendo competitions are certainly part of "the Way", they are that, just part of it. It is not about winning or loosing, getting silver or gold medals, but about overcoming challenges that are hard on purpose (for example, performing a technique in a very specific and strict manner), so you can take that to your everyday life and the way you interact with others.
P.s: if there are no dojos near you I would suggest to look for "online Kendo Keiko" and the "From Zero to Shodan" series by Andy Fisher sensei, it's a great introduction to this Budo.
From what I understand, the roots of kendo go back to about 1700. This is a mere century after the battle of Sekigahara. It was developed as a adjunct to training by a kenjutsu school. So it isn't a reenactment of samurai combat, but it has many elements of a training technique used by some samurai. I suppose that's why they ask you to hit the target that you are supposed to aim for (men for instance) but ignore the angle of the neck, as you mentioned. If a samurai can hit one target in practice, he could certainly adjust and hit another target in combat. By the way, Metatron, did you study kata in your kendo studies? How different are they from the kenjutsu kata that you are currently studying? Thanks!
Here a long time kendo practicioner, I'd like to point some things. Its not like "kendo has nothing to do with samurai", it has, but its just a fraction (a basis for itto ryu) of the whole. Kendo origin is itto ryu and it certainly teach SOME actual swordmanship principles and technics. I.e. okuri ashi (the most used, but not the only footwork in kendo) was indeed used to certain extend in antiquity (i.e. while using hakama).
Its main letdown for people who wants to learn samurai swordmanship are the limited valid targets, that also affect the whole framework (as the absence in keiko of some stances).
But a good advantage is the full contact sparring and a clear system to decide victory.
Nonetheless, it would be nice if you can combine it with other disciplines as iaido and/or kenjutsu.
Cheers!
Short answer: he started practicing kendon't.
That's a pretty sweet O Yoroi you have there! I like the kabuto too. What I am interested in learning about are the various martial techniques of historical samurai - Bujutsu, I believe is the correct term. People forget that samurai did not use katana/tachi exclusively but also practiced kyujutsu, bojutsu, sojutsu, etc.
all your critique of kendo is based on you wanting to be a "samurai". it means that in three yrs of kendo you didn't do kendo at all.
Dude watched too much anime.
What was he doing then ?
@@THISISLolesh his imagination of what a samurai is in the 21st century.
@@RF-xj1ej So he was imagining the 3 years he was doing kendo?
@@THISISLolesh from what he says in his video, pretty much.
I practiced Kendo for over 30 years and generally agree with you. One thing that Kendo does bring is that you have to be determined to practice. Most of the time it is not pleasant and you are expected to fit in to the hierarchy, not easy for someone from a Western culture where you are told you can do anything you want.
A form of Kendo was already introduced in the Edo era as a form of practicing sword fight and as a nice past time activity. It's the sport that closest comes to Samurai combat as there is no sparring in kenjutsu.
Nice comment!
Reading all these other comments, I think a lot of ppl have never done research on kendo lol. They don’t realize that it literally came out of the necessity fir sparring in kenjutsu, that kenjutsu schools created what later evolved into kendo lol...
@@estevanelmariachi1457 Exactly, and they modified these days that it has become a combat sport with rules that give each competitor the same chances. It's not meant to be for self defense as nobody carries katanas anymore. But it's still the sport that comes closest to Samurai combat with full contact sparring.
Thank you for making this video, it’s very helpful.
He probably stopped practicing after realizing Western Swords have throwable pommels
So he ended kendo rightly?
You'd face similar problems with learning martial Karate vs sports Karate. "You won't be able to use 80% of what you learn in Kenjutsu into Kendo, because the majority of the guards, and the moves, and the slices, and the attacks, and the parries that you will learn, that come from a more ancient tradition, are illegal in Kendo", this is just spot on when it comes to really any martial art that turns into a sport. I'd argue that maybe BJJ and Judo keep their martial side and sport side more closely related than other martial arts. And I'm speaking from my experience in those particular arts, so I have no idea if others martial arts (Muay Thai, Boxing, Western Fencing and whatnot) face the same problem.
As usual, great video, my best regards to you Raffaello for all your good work.
What are your thoughts on Aikido, and how does it (as I was informed by my son's former Sensi) relate to Judo?
I believe the creator of Aikido studied Judo, and used it when making his own style.
@@turtlesaredifferentfromtor6745 He also studied Kendo ironically along with traditional jujitsu
Aikido and Judo both came from traditional Jujutsu. Morihei Ueshiba studied Daito ryu jujutsu and used his peaceful approach to create Aikido. Too bad that was a mistake because taking out the violence aspect of Aiki jujutsu made Aikido a joke in martial arts community now days
@@jaketheasianguy3307 A joke? It's an extremely enjoyable art to do. The only aspect of it that is a joke are the people who think that it is a practical form of combat, the same as in judo, kendo, boxing, wrestling and really any martial art except mma and actual military, police or self-defense combat training, which is a completely different thing from a martial art.
@@SpaghettiToaster It became a joke in modern martial art community because alot of Aikido practitioners keep calling their art deadliest self defense system, calling it better than other art...etc....Hell, i like Aikido, i even successfully used some of it's techniques in MMA sparring but the attitude and the approach to it of some practitioners turned it into a joke
I started Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu a few months ago. It's something I've always been interested in, but I never actually took the step. Then I met this girl I wanted to impress, so I started taking classes. Now I just love it, and I go to classes because I love it, and I don't really care about impressing anyone anymore. So maybe I started for the wrong reason, but my reasons changed, and now I stay for the right reason. I've never had so much fun getting my butt kicked.
Kendo is actually a good example of a Martial ART, with the emphasis being equally on being both "martial" but also an "art".
Totally agree and totally honest. Also there is no doubt that the Kendo attacks hurt but I doubt that they would lunge at a person holding a live sharp katana.
"I started Kendo because Tuesday." Hmmm. I see the problem. Also screw Japanese martial arrogance and pseudo mysticism.
I have been doing kendo for quite some time, and gotta say a couple of things if you don’t mind:
I did start it because I liked history of samurai and the culture around it.
I did find it to be much more strict than what I was expecting
Still love it though. A couple of thing you noted about the chuudan stance being the main one, and that getting to joudan was prohibited, is because you don’t know how to fight against chuudan until you practiced with it first.
Waki-Kamae is not used because it opens your kote massively but there are attacks that can be executed with a brief waki-kamae.
The main scoring point is not men. It is all the points, it is just men represents the perfect cut in kendo. But you are encouraged to do all of them, especially one you start practicing oujiwaza and debana waza.
No shade, but I would not discourage people from picking up kendo because they like the samurai and want to feel like one. My advice would be try it, see if you like it, because the philosophy of it is straight from the samurai.
Again no shade on you man! You are doing great.
waki and hasso Kamae are useful when you're at a distance moving to your target, with both guard and flexibility, or when you are trying to conceal the length of your sword. In either stance you WILL need to go to either something of a chuudan or jodan first to strike. In that sense of course chuudan and jodan are the most fundamental and important. Now in modern kendo you already start at a close distance you don't need to move around, and you don't need to conceal your length of your shinai your opponent knows it already. Well anyone are sure to welcome to try hasso or waki no Kamae in a fight or whatever, they'll just find themselves back in chuudan or jodan the second before they actually need to strike.
you can't learn how to seme from kenjitsu without doing any keiko/sparing. Without learning how to seme, none of the technique will work.
Kendo was revamped after WWII to give it even more of a sporting element so that the occupational forces would allow people to start training in it again. It is rather common for yudansha kendoka to train in some form of koryu. Most common are iaijutsu and/or one of the forms of Itto Ryu which were among the most direct influences on kendo. Other koryu that include gekiken, and Shinto Muso Ryu Jo(jutsu/do) are also fairly common.
Why ppl who not boddering even to read kendo history talk so much trash on internet...
Shinai and shinai uchi-komi introduced in many kenjutsu styles much be4 kendo appears.
Also kendo was developed not 4 sport but 4 training police and military officers to replace european sabre fighting which use shinai and bogu 4 training as well...
Heh so much to say but who cares
Wow, my kendo class didn't have a waiting period. Though they were probably not in a position to be picky. I miss those classes. I wish I could have stayed with them.