I love all your videos. Some points I disagree with or are missing: 1. This part of history is not controversial. 2. The Kaaba was a center for polytheists. Muslims don’t debate that or “Try to hide it” as you state. 3. There is no mention of the Nabateans. 4. There is no mention of the importance of tribal/clan loyalties which are instrumental in understanding the drive to unify. 5. There is no mention of Imru’ al-Qays (The first attempt to unify all of Arabia) 6. There is no mention of the battle of Dhi Qar. Important battle against the Sassanids. 7. There is no mention of the persecution of the early Muslims (The reasons for the migration to Yathrib (Medina). 8. The word Allah refers to the monotheistic Abrahamic God in the Arabic language. Arab Jews and Christians use the same word, as can be easily seen in their religious texts and sermons. 9. A good example of the massive change in the rights of woman were inheritance laws (Before and after). 10. Your points of “quick unification “ and “flexible, tribal union” are 100% valid. Not sure why you state they are controversial. 11. The real full unification of Arabia occurred during Abu Bakr and Omar reigns. You stated it is a mystery for some reason. 12. The pilgrimage (Hajj) is not a recreation of the migration (Hijra). Hope this helps. Thanks for posting your videos and I look forward to seeing more.
24:12 you were right saying that some Arab nationalism was involved,according to Arabic sources, a lot of Arabs joined the Islamic armies on nationalism base, and actually just hearing an Arab Army was close by led a lot of them to revolt, also christian sects that was classified by the catholic church in Rome as heretics (Nestorian churches and the Copts for example) saw Arab rule as an escape from oppression , than includes Jews as well who were better treated by Arabs.
About the great seizure of the Arabian peninsula. Muhammad and Makkah already had many vassal states(tribes rather) at the time of his leadership of Madinah as did the Quraish. In fact a fight between their vassal states is what led to Muhammad invading Makkah. Muhammad also had a very effective missionary campaign. Once Makkah fell and a few smaller battles subduing the next strongest tribes took place and large numbers of its leaders were either dead or converts most of the tribes including smaller regional tribes and basically all of Makkahs vassals swore loyalty to Muhammad.
Koksal Ceylan "wasn't discovered yet" wtf man, the fact that Europeans and Asians didn't know about America at that time, doesn't mean there were no people there, Jeezzz
@Koksal Ceylan Not really, because it really depends on which part of the Americas you live in. since we have a lack of records from the Americas we can't point out what it was truly like everywhere in the continent, but the Indians are not a single united people, and the America's was and still is just as diverse as Europe, Asia, and Africa. you had the Taino people in Hispaniola, you had Indians in the Western plains, and on the coast of North America, you had the Nahuas in Mexico and still have them their, or the natives living in the Amazons in Brazil. you had great empires such as the Mayas, Aztecs, and Incas, some of them build the wheel, others didn't, few where peaceful, while most went to war with each other, the point is you can't simply generalize what the Americas where like before Columbus. They weren't perfect, nor were they savage. They were just human beings, like you and me.
And short note. Khadija bent Kuwaylid was 40, while Muhammad was 25. And no he did have children with her, in fact all of his children came from her, expect Ibrahim ibn Muhammad who was the son of muhammad and an Egyptian slave women named Maria al Qibtiyya , who muhammad latter freed and married, after she got pregnant. oops. the only reason why Muhammad married more than one wife after Khadijah died, was because it was custom back then, and it was a means of building up connection with tribes, and build alliances with those tribes. Muhammad rarely did it for sexually reasons. Safiyya and Maria and a few others where just the exception.
@@geordiejones5618 Certainly things happened. Just not what the Quran tells you about its own history. It's all fiction. Mecca was never of any importance in that era. More than likely the conquest of Jerusalem was rewritten later to take place in an Arab milieu. The language used in the Quran is Northern Arabic. The landmarks described are all to be found in the levant. It should be called out - western historians retelling the Hadith like they're absolute historical records.
@Garret Fox I mean I’m an ex Muslim and don’t like the religion or it’s fundamental believers but you just sound like a bigot. Even I realize that many external factors led to the decline we have seen in the past 100 years. It’s not like the Arab and Muslim world was colonized and exploited or anything right? You act like Christianity never had its lows or anti intellectual periods
As for what drove the Arab/Muslim expansion: consider the deficiencies of the Umayyad Empire, and then compare that to the deficiencies of the Sassanid and the Byzantine Empires. (I have no answer, I'm just pondering a historical method).
I've watched A LOT of your videos. They're quite excellent. I just have one question for you, personally: Where are you from? I have never in my life ever heard "ruins" pronounced as "roynes" or "roins" (rhymes with "loins" as in loincloth or "girded his loins"). Which part of the US is that pronunciation common?? I'm dying to know!!
He's mentioned in another video, I think it was a Livestream he's not from any specific state because his dad or someone in his family was in the military so he would move alot. Not sure where he was born but I'm sure he mentioned it and it's probably more north
Hi, I thought adding context might help. There was material simplication in the east as well as the western half of the roman empire in the period after we acknowledge the western half was over, there are issues with the reasons for that. The east is in the midst or on the brink of economic boom and China are emerging but development is hampered by what is essentially a tribal klan like social organisation, families with lots of lateral lines, but unlike the west geography hinders the development of infastructure and that is preventing a boom occurring. When you add in all the factors you cite, which are very useful by the way, with the structure of Islam as a belief system what you have is a belief system which can overcome these barriers. Mohammed is very much on the front lines of all these chages, he is a merchant, these things are playing around him, and the submission to one system, there will be no more prophets in caves and the way in which his beliefs develop through actual political organisation, in the context you describe fully allow that 'boom' to take hold. This part of the world needed abelief system that did that. And as a result we, as modern readers, know that we are part of an infinite universe we cannot comprehend. We submit to this. Because we can now mathematically prove it. THis development shapes not only this region but plays out through emergence of maths and science and the base of our modern day belief system.
I’m surprised that you claim that muslims are rewriting or hiding the fact that the ka’ba was a center of idol worship! Have you read the history of Mohammed’s life and campaigns? All it talks about is him walking around the Ka’aba dissing idols and preaching monotheism. If you did you would have got your examples for semitic arabic dieties that we’re worshipped there like Al-lat. Al-Uzza, Manat and the popular patron god of Mohammed’s tribe of Quraish, Hubal (Levantine Ba’al) whom Mohammed destroyed among all the other idols after he conquered Mecca . Every muslim knows that.
All I meant was that it was a fact that doesn't tend to get talked about all that much. I am basing that more on English-language treatments of Islam and Islamic history and I can't speak to the internal discourse of the Muslim community.
@@ThersitestheHistorian in Islamic societies Muslims are fairly open about Kaba housing idols of deities. It’s a standard part of the Muslim narrative. You make it sound like Muslims are intentionally suppressing these facts. Also, you said that Khadijatul kubra didn’t have any child with the prophet. They had 6 children among them was Fatimah, mother of Hassan and Hussain. Khadijah married the prophet after 30 which may explain why only one of her children grew up to adulthood.
also Hajj isn’t a recreation of the Hijra, Hajj means pilgrimage , and in islam it is basically Pilgrimage to the Ka’ba , which is supposedly the place where Adam and Ishmael built a house for god and the place where he left Ishmael and his mother during Ishmael’s childhood. Hijra means migration, and in the mohammadian life’s context it means migration for him or his Meccan converts who were mostly slaves or serfs to Medina to escape servitude and persecution by the polytheistic Meccan nobility.
@@Adsper2000 What I read is it was ancient, I don’t know about modern day ones was my understanding. A cool thing about them I liked is they really like dogs and when they died they had dogs rip their body to pieces for their funeral. Ancient times that is. I don’t think they do that in modern times. Too bad.
Actually the information provided at 3:45 is not correct. Muslim never said that, in Kabah there is no polythiest statue, our prophet's main mission was to destroy polytheism in the Arab world and establish Islam which is to submit to only one God.
After the prophets death a large number of tribes in Arabia turn to paganism The but Abu Baker fight against them hardly and many of the close companions of the prophet died in these wars before the major battles against Rome and Persia begin It was about unity of faith otherwise Abu baker would accept them
You stated that Muhammad got relevations from Gabriel and wrote them down forming the quran, at the beginning of the video, but I want to point out that Muhammad was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, just wanted to point that out
@@ThersitestheHistorian Looks like he probably lived in Petra not Mecca too. Dan Gibson puts forward very interesting arguments to support this claim in his The Sacred City documentart
@@ThersitestheHistorian his uncle recorded his revelations on palm leafs, rocks and etc . He was illiterate he might have known some arithmetic but writing was not imp for any Arabian merchant during the classical period .
@@SirHappyThe1st the charter of Umar was the charter of Umar II of the Umayyads. The more draconian laws don't seem like they would be possible to enact. And even then for its time it was an improvement.
There were some Arabs living within the empire prior to 632, but they were mostly in Palestine and Syria and were probably not a majority in any region. They may have had their own towns near the frontier where they had been settled as a reward for their military service, however.
Also if you thought Muslims claim that Islam is a religion of peace, you'd be wrong. Traditional scholarship don’t say Islam is the religion of peace, it’s only western Muslims and people with shallow understanding of the religion say that. Traditional claim on the Muslim side is that Islam is the religion of truth and Justice and they may wage war or be at peace to serve truth and Justice (in their pov)
in the arabic peoms of that era , the arabs always feel pride in having a sword or spear that was made in india or Yemen. i wonder why they don't say a thing about the roman or persian military 🤔 they speak about drinking wine in demascus , Balbayk or other levantian city
Thersites the Historian I meant the era before Islam when the Arabs were vassals to Persian and Romans Like Tarafa ibn Al-Abd(died in 569) in his poem saying I am the thin one. You know him, quick as the head of a darting serpent. I am the one who swore to make his thigh always the soft backing of a fine, double-edged Indian sword. When I stand with it, avenging, it cuts. The first blow makes a second unneeded. No pruning axe, Steady, not deflected from its target: When someone says "easy!" its wielder says "done. "
Thersites the Historian He also mentioned the Romans but in term of building A build like a Byzantine's its builder swore bridge- to raise up brick and mortar sides until intact-
Very late, but there is actually a good reason for it. Several east African people's had quite advanced iron and steel working Techniques and sold massive amounts of the material to mostly India, but Yemen too, where they'd be used to forge Swords. So in this case it's a very direct reference to being rich enough of having one of the finest weapons made in that Time period
Muhammad Zubair ruled Mecca before Abdul Malik and they had mosques in those times. In fact Abi Waqas a companion of Muhammad was able to build a mosque in China in 637 AD.
U made a lot of mistakes TBH but since u appear sincere it’s quite clear that those mistakes were based on ignorance/faulty sources and not antagonism😜😜.. 1- u said that the prophet agreed to solve the problems of the people living in Medina if they converted when that’s not true, they accepted him because they wanted him to solve the problems btw the Jews and the Arabs, he was a monotheist and an Arab so he had a connection with both parties and they all agreed that they will unite against the Meccans... 2- u said that he United arabs on Arab nationalism when that’s clearly not true , I know that u don’t believe that he was a man of God but saying that they United on nationalism when He emphasized on his last sermon on the idea that there is no difference btw an Arab and a non Arab , also and I’m not sure about it 100% but I think that nationalism takes you out of the fold of Islam so things like Westphalian nation states are anti Islam by default .. flags and nationalities are against Islam and their existence are one of the reasons why the Muslim world is suffering right now... 3- the followers of Mohammed converted to Islam and we call them the “Sahaba” (Companions) and every caliph in Islamic history was Muslim, A caliph cannot be a non Muslim... 3- when it comes to women (and men) they had much more freedom before Islam but that doesn’t mean anything because we believe in collectivism and the laws of the sharia.. we do not believe in liberalism and the idea of do whatever you want as long as u don’t hurt people.. Islamic tradition was very flexible with women and there is reason we never had feminism because the demands of first wave feminism was already given to women 1400 years ago and I think u should read about women in Islamic tradition.. 4- the later caliphs didn’t ban women from religious and political authority, the prophet said that the caliph should always be a male and that’s why there was no female caliphs .. women were not excluded from religious authority why? Because we have a list of 10K female scholars and no other religion have something even close to this number, a lot of our great Muslim scholars were actually taught by women and like I said we know the biographies of every women who taught them..
You are correct. Neither was Mecca ever a city of importance in that era. Muhammad did not grow up in Arabia but Syria. The whole Mecca site is a much later recreation of Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Marwa is mount Moriah. Sapha is Mount Scopus. The whole battle of Mu'tah makes no sense whatsoever unless you face the reality none of this "rise of Islam history" took place in Arabia.
@@2Hesiod You're most likely correct. He's probably an amalgamation of multiple historical figures. One of specific interest is Nehemiah Ben Hushiel. He was involved in the revolt against Heraclius and was installed as exilarch after Jerusalem was conquered without bloodshed... the last part should ring a bell (its part of the surrender of Makkah myth). Jerusalem was conquered fighting alongside Sassanids then lost again. The first objective of those arabs, messianic jews surviving that war was always the reconquest of Jerusalem. Later this whole history was rewritten to revolve around Mecca, an insignificant place with no marker on any map of the time. Regardless of Muhammad being historical or not the Quraysh tribe lived in Syria - check the Dussaud map of Syria.
@@2Hesiodthat is ridiculous to say and impossible to justify. There is more evidence for Muhammad than Jesus and I doubt you would claim the same for him
Your videos have many mistakes. - No one changed the fact, we believe that there were idols in Mecca before Islam but when Islam came and prophet muhammad PBUH conquered Mecca, almost all Meccans accepted Islam and Kaba was cleaned from idols. - Islam means submition to the will of Allah (God). - Khadija and prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had 6 children, 2 sons and 4 daughters. - you make some stories just from yourself. You said not all of the followers and some caliph were not Muslims. Are you kidding ???😂😂😂. All of the followers of prophet muhammad PBUH were muslims especially all of the caliphs. Tell me which of the caliph wasn't muslim?? It doesn't make any sense. Caliph is religious and political leader of the Muslims. How can I non muslim became the religious leader of the muslims.
Sigh. You're relying solely on islamic religious sources, without any corroboration from the surrounding countries/empires. That is not how a true historian should work. I don't have time to debunk all the nonsense, but please read Tom Holland's work. Do you think that the Exodus is a historic event too, even if it's never mentioned by Egyptians or Hettites and lacks archeological evidence?
What in the hell are you talking about? I didn't use Islamic religious sources and I certainly don't regard the Exodus or the united kingdom of Israel as historical fact. How did you possibly get that impression from this video?
I am saying exactly what I am saying. The comparison with the Exodus was just to prove a point. I bow down in respect for your historical knowledge, and I very much enjoy your videos, but I consider myself very informed about this specific period of history/religion. I do not know which sources you use, but I am pretty sure that whatever they are, they are based on the the religious history of Islam, and not a historical view. It is a fact that the name Muhammed was first mentioned about 60 years after his supposed death and inscribed in the Dome of the Rock. There are no contemporary accounts that even mention the word "muslims". They were called saraceens (even the medieval crusaders called them that). And what you call the teachings of Muhammed was by all historical reasoning not set until the 9th century, when the Hadiths and the Siras was canonized and even the whole of the Quran. I am only asking you to take a scientific historical view of the rise of Islam/Saraceens and their conquest of most of the known world. The first ones to do this was the "german school" in the 70s, with historians like Crone/Cook/Luxenberg. And even though it is a risky business, you have contemporary scholars like Holland and Gibson. I am not saying that Muhammed never existed, but the traditional myth of him calling his followers to a jihad and the rightly guided caliphs, is probably just a myth. And there is absolutely no historical evidence of even the existence of Mecca where it is said to be, until the islamic sources told people so. If you want to trade punches with me, then just tell me in what way Holland is wrong and you're right. Have you even read In the Shadow of the Sword? As far as I am concerned, you're just propagating islamic religious myths on this subject, and get pissed off because I tell you so. No different from biblical historians in the 19th century.
@Henrik G I haven't read Holland's work, nor do I plan to do so. I read his work on the Persian Wars and I was less than impressed with his scholarship. Whose work did Holland draw on? That would be a much better place to start. Calling Tom Holland a scholar is generous to the say the least. I'm not an expert on this period of history, but I asked a few people who are in the know prior to making this video. I have also read a little bit of Patricia Crone's work on the subject. There is a minority view within the community of scholars who work on the rise of Islam that states that the entire chronology of the 7th Century, particularly in regard to the rise of Islam, is off. The reason why that theory hasn't caught on is because testing any historical theory from such a poorly attested period is rather difficult. If Tom Holland stated this as established fact, then he greatly overstated the case. The view that I present here is not in any way a "religious" view or the "Islamic myth". The Islamic myth involves the newly converted Muslims being vastly outnumbered, winning because of the support of Allah, and conquering decadent empires full of infidels. It also involves all of the invaders being devout Muslims, when we know that being Muslim was not a requirement for service. The Islamic tradition also says that all of the tenets and teachings of Islam were fully in place prior to Muhammad's death, something that can't be proven by textual analysis. I rather suspect based on how sharp your tone has been over this issue that you might be taking an Islamophobic perspective on the issue. Even if you hate Islam now, that is completely irrelevant to what happened in the 7th Century. The two issues are completely separate and should not be conflated.
Lucky for you, it's available for free here on RUclips, but any decent man would pay the cost it's worth for this masterpiece. Don't be afraid to learn something. :) ruclips.net/video/smkusYsE4DE/видео.html
And I have to ask you. Are you a muslim? And Oh no, please don't call me an islamophobe. Please. But back to reality. Historians have applied a historical analysis on chistianity and judaism for over a hundred years, and I applaud that too. But when it comes to t-h-a-t religion we don't do it, because then we either suffer from an irrational phobia, or we are just scared of the consequences. Grow up!
Inaccurate information about islam. Please read/refer to authentic islamic books don't be intellectually lazy. there is wealth of information about islam which is authentic.....stop adding your thoughts to it.
Islam is not tolerant of any religion. Surah 9:29 states 'Engage in war with those who do not believe in Allah and the last day'. Well, Christians,Jews and Sabaens (star worshipers) etc dont believe in al Lah so according to the Quran and Muhammad the Muslims must fight them until they capitulate. Lets continue the chapter 'And do not forbid what al-Lah and his messenger forbid and do not believe in the religion of truth (Islam)among those who have been given the book until they pay the Jizyah out of hand and they are subdued'. The people of the book are the Jews and Christians they will be subdued and made to pay the Jizyah (a tax for non believers) Muhammad was a pedophile who married a child of six, a rapist,a bandit and war lord, this man if he existed is not from God and Lah cant be god as explained by Sahih Muslim in hadith 2749, where Lah explains he will remove anyone from existence who does not commit sin '; what god talks like this? Islam is NOT Abrahamic, Abraham was Persian and the woman who became the mother of his child was Eygyptian so how does Persian + Egyptian = Arab? Islam is not what you think it is, read its OWN primary sources and learn, never trust what anyone tells you and always check for yourself. I recommend Christian Princes Live stream on RUclips, Mr Prince is one of the worlds foremost authorities on the subject of Islam.
@@jeremygoldsmith4767 256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. Just like the Bible does not preach colonizing women and k*ling men for their resources
I love all your videos. Some points I disagree with or are missing:
1. This part of history is not controversial.
2. The Kaaba was a center for polytheists. Muslims don’t debate that or “Try to hide it” as you state.
3. There is no mention of the Nabateans.
4. There is no mention of the importance of tribal/clan loyalties which are instrumental in understanding the drive to unify.
5. There is no mention of Imru’ al-Qays (The first attempt to unify all of Arabia)
6. There is no mention of the battle of Dhi Qar. Important battle against the Sassanids.
7. There is no mention of the persecution of the early Muslims (The reasons for the migration to Yathrib (Medina).
8. The word Allah refers to the monotheistic Abrahamic God in the Arabic language. Arab Jews and Christians use the same word, as can be easily seen in their religious texts and sermons.
9. A good example of the massive change in the rights of woman were inheritance laws (Before and after).
10. Your points of “quick unification “ and “flexible, tribal union” are 100% valid. Not sure why you state they are controversial.
11. The real full unification of Arabia occurred during Abu Bakr and Omar reigns. You stated it is a mystery for some reason.
12. The pilgrimage (Hajj) is not a recreation of the migration (Hijra).
Hope this helps. Thanks for posting your videos and I look forward to seeing more.
Such a treasure of information. Thank you, Thersites!
This is a good site. Visiting here is like getting history lore from a real smart friend who just knows stuff. Always worth a visit!
24:12 you were right saying that some Arab nationalism was involved,according to Arabic sources, a lot of Arabs joined the Islamic armies on nationalism base, and actually just hearing an Arab Army was close by led a lot of them to revolt, also christian sects that was classified by the catholic church in Rome as heretics (Nestorian churches and the Copts for example) saw Arab rule as an escape from oppression , than includes Jews as well who were better treated by Arabs.
Yemen is still invaded for trade reasons now, which is WHY its considered the third world
About the great seizure of the Arabian peninsula. Muhammad and Makkah already had many vassal states(tribes rather) at the time of his leadership of Madinah as did the Quraish. In fact a fight between their vassal states is what led to Muhammad invading Makkah. Muhammad also had a very effective missionary campaign. Once Makkah fell and a few smaller battles subduing the next strongest tribes took place and large numbers of its leaders were either dead or converts most of the tribes including smaller regional tribes and basically all of Makkahs vassals swore loyalty to Muhammad.
What about hymjarite judeo-arab kingdom in yemen?
I have a question where was the best place to live in this time period?
That's a tough question. Probably either Tang China or maybe somewhere in the New World.
Medina
Koksal Ceylan "wasn't discovered yet" wtf man, the fact that Europeans and Asians didn't know about America at that time, doesn't mean there were no people there, Jeezzz
@Koksal Ceylan Not really, because it really depends on which part of the Americas you live in. since we have a lack of records from the Americas we can't point out what it was truly like everywhere in the continent, but the Indians are not a single united people, and the America's was and still is just as diverse as Europe, Asia, and Africa. you had the Taino people in Hispaniola, you had Indians in the Western plains, and on the coast of North America, you had the Nahuas in Mexico and still have them their, or the natives living in the Amazons in Brazil. you had great empires such as the Mayas, Aztecs, and Incas, some of them build the wheel, others didn't, few where peaceful, while most went to war with each other, the point is you can't simply generalize what the Americas where like before Columbus. They weren't perfect, nor were they savage. They were just human beings, like you and me.
And short note. Khadija bent Kuwaylid was 40, while Muhammad was 25. And no he did have children with her, in fact all of his children came from her, expect Ibrahim ibn Muhammad who was the son of muhammad and an Egyptian slave women named Maria al Qibtiyya , who muhammad latter freed and married, after she got pregnant. oops. the only reason why Muhammad married more than one wife after Khadijah died, was because it was custom back then, and it was a means of building up connection with tribes, and build alliances with those tribes. Muhammad rarely did it for sexually reasons. Safiyya and Maria and a few others where just the exception.
Why don't you give any sources in your videos or books for further reading
Good point.
The entire history recounted here is a total work of fiction.
Agreed
By your standards nothing ever happened it's just all one big lie right?
@@geordiejones5618 Certainly things happened. Just not what the Quran tells you about its own history. It's all fiction. Mecca was never of any importance in that era. More than likely the conquest of Jerusalem was rewritten later to take place in an Arab milieu. The language used in the Quran is Northern Arabic. The landmarks described are all to be found in the levant. It should be called out - western historians retelling the Hadith like they're absolute historical records.
Wow
The Arab Islamic culture is so interesting
I feel like this should definitely be taught more
@Garret Fox I mean I’m an ex Muslim and don’t like the religion or it’s fundamental believers but you just sound like a bigot. Even I realize that many external factors led to the decline we have seen in the past 100 years. It’s not like the Arab and Muslim world was colonized and exploited or anything right? You act like Christianity never had its lows or anti intellectual periods
Its many fallacies should be taught as well
19:39 you have many inaccurate information for example here they had 5 children together 3 daughters and 2 son.
20:07 he never exiled he had to escape assassination
What about the Tanukhids??!
Lion King and hymjar?
As for what drove the Arab/Muslim expansion: consider the deficiencies of the Umayyad Empire, and then compare that to the deficiencies of the Sassanid and the Byzantine Empires. (I have no answer, I'm just pondering a historical method).
Khadijah had 4 daughters and 2 sons with Muhammad
I've watched A LOT of your videos. They're quite excellent. I just have one question for you, personally:
Where are you from? I have never in my life ever heard "ruins" pronounced as "roynes" or "roins" (rhymes with "loins" as in loincloth or "girded his loins").
Which part of the US is that pronunciation common?? I'm dying to know!!
He's mentioned in another video, I think it was a Livestream he's not from any specific state because his dad or someone in his family was in the military so he would move alot. Not sure where he was born but I'm sure he mentioned it and it's probably more north
I'm pretty sure that pronunciation is Pennsylvania like Pittsburgh area
@@MelBee128 Ah!!! Okay. Many thanks!
Hi, I thought adding context might help. There was material simplication in the east as well as the western half of the roman empire in the period after we acknowledge the western half was over, there are issues with the reasons for that. The east is in the midst or on the brink of economic boom and China are emerging but development is hampered by what is essentially a tribal klan like social organisation, families with lots of lateral lines, but unlike the west geography hinders the development of infastructure and that is preventing a boom occurring. When you add in all the factors you cite, which are very useful by the way, with the structure of Islam as a belief system what you have is a belief system which can overcome these barriers. Mohammed is very much on the front lines of all these chages, he is a merchant, these things are playing around him, and the submission to one system, there will be no more prophets in caves and the way in which his beliefs develop through actual political organisation, in the context you describe fully allow that 'boom' to take hold. This part of the world needed abelief system that did that. And as a result we, as modern readers, know that we are part of an infinite universe we cannot comprehend. We submit to this. Because we can now mathematically prove it. THis development shapes not only this region but plays out through emergence of maths and science and the base of our modern day belief system.
I’m surprised that you claim that muslims are rewriting or hiding the fact that the ka’ba was a center of idol worship!
Have you read the history of Mohammed’s life and campaigns? All it talks about is him walking around the Ka’aba dissing idols and preaching monotheism.
If you did you would have got your examples for semitic arabic dieties that we’re worshipped there like Al-lat. Al-Uzza, Manat and the popular patron god of Mohammed’s tribe of Quraish, Hubal (Levantine Ba’al) whom Mohammed destroyed among all the other idols after he conquered Mecca .
Every muslim knows that.
All I meant was that it was a fact that doesn't tend to get talked about all that much. I am basing that more on English-language treatments of Islam and Islamic history and I can't speak to the internal discourse of the Muslim community.
@@ThersitestheHistorian in Islamic societies Muslims are fairly open about Kaba housing idols of deities.
It’s a standard part of the Muslim narrative. You make it sound like Muslims are intentionally suppressing these facts.
Also, you said that Khadijatul kubra didn’t have any child with the prophet. They had 6 children among them was Fatimah, mother of Hassan and Hussain.
Khadijah married the prophet after 30 which may explain why only one of her children grew up to adulthood.
Every Muslim believes a whole host of falsehoods. That's what makes them truly Muslim, delusion.
also Hajj isn’t a recreation of the Hijra, Hajj means pilgrimage , and in islam it is basically Pilgrimage to the Ka’ba , which is supposedly the place where Adam and Ishmael built a house for god and the place where he left Ishmael and his mother during Ishmael’s childhood.
Hijra means migration, and in the mohammadian life’s context it means migration for him or his Meccan converts who were mostly slaves or serfs to Medina to escape servitude and persecution by the polytheistic Meccan nobility.
*Abraham the belive is thar Abraham and ishamel built it
Muhammad was a psychopathic conman and a confirmed pedophile.
23:07 Heraclius did not want to take any territory
Zoroastrianism supposedly you had to be born a Zoroastrian and couldn’t convert is my understanding of the religion. Am I wrong there?
I believe that is only modern day Indian Zoroastrians, not ancient Zoroastrians.
@@Adsper2000 What I read is it was ancient, I don’t know about modern day ones was my understanding. A cool thing about them I liked is they really like dogs and when they died they had dogs rip their body to pieces for their funeral. Ancient times that is. I don’t think they do that in modern times. Too bad.
Wrong. Khadija was the only wife who gave him children!! According to Islam later sources of course!
Actually the information provided at 3:45 is not correct. Muslim never said that, in Kabah there is no polythiest statue, our prophet's main mission was to destroy polytheism in the Arab world and establish Islam which is to submit to only one God.
What were the Christian idols? Isn't idolatry in opposition to Christianity? Or was it just Christianity being assimilated into Arab customs?
Trenton Slovakia Maybe it could be interpreted as the Christian icons that so greatly affected the Byzantine Empire.
After the prophets death a large number of tribes in Arabia turn to paganism
The but Abu Baker fight against them hardly and many of the close companions of the prophet died in these wars before the major battles against Rome and Persia begin
It was about unity of faith otherwise Abu baker would accept them
I believe they mean surrender or submission to god. Not just submission by itself lol
This topic is not controversial at all
ai pappi
You'd be surprised
It’s not.
You stated that Muhammad got relevations from Gabriel and wrote them down forming the quran, at the beginning of the video, but I want to point out that Muhammad was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, just wanted to point that out
Hmm... good point. Although, as a merchant, wouldn't Muhammad have needed at least some literacy to keep records and make contracts?
@@ThersitestheHistorian Looks like he probably lived in Petra not Mecca too. Dan Gibson puts forward very interesting arguments to support this claim in his The Sacred City documentart
@@ThersitestheHistorian Where did u get the impression that Dhimmi`s are to be treated well?have you not read the charter of Umar?
@@ThersitestheHistorian his uncle recorded his revelations on palm leafs, rocks and etc . He was illiterate he might have known some arithmetic but writing was not imp for any Arabian merchant during the classical period .
@@SirHappyThe1st the charter of Umar was the charter of Umar II of the Umayyads. The more draconian laws don't seem like they would be possible to enact. And even then for its time it was an improvement.
What’s byzantine empire considered Arab before Islam?
There were some Arabs living within the empire prior to 632, but they were mostly in Palestine and Syria and were probably not a majority in any region. They may have had their own towns near the frontier where they had been settled as a reward for their military service, however.
Muhamad was literate? Could write?
The quran was recorded?
I thought "Islam" means "peace", not "submission"...
salam=peace
Islam=submission
Istislam=surrender
they share the same root but each has a unique meaning
Also if you thought Muslims claim that Islam is a religion of peace, you'd be wrong. Traditional scholarship don’t say Islam is the religion of peace, it’s only western Muslims and people with shallow understanding of the religion say that.
Traditional claim on the Muslim side is that Islam is the religion of truth and Justice and they may wage war or be at peace to serve truth and Justice (in their pov)
Mohammed basically is a very sucessful warlord with a bit of spirituality, lol
So was Moses, David and Solomon.
@@Fman0909 none of which actually existed
rewrite history?
in the arabic peoms of that era , the arabs always feel pride in having a sword or spear that was made in india or Yemen.
i wonder why they don't say a thing about the roman or persian military 🤔
they speak about drinking wine in demascus , Balbayk or other levantian city
I imagine that they took pride in not being dependent on the wares of their rivals when they were fighting them.
Thersites the Historian
I meant the era before Islam when the Arabs were vassals to Persian and Romans
Like Tarafa ibn Al-Abd(died in 569) in his poem saying
I am the thin one. You know him, quick as the head
of a darting serpent.
I am the one who swore
to make his thigh always the soft backing
of a fine, double-edged Indian sword.
When I stand with it, avenging, it cuts.
The first blow makes a second unneeded. No pruning axe,
Steady, not deflected
from its target:
When someone says "easy!"
its wielder says "done. "
Thersites the Historian
He also mentioned the Romans but in term of building
A build like a Byzantine's its builder swore
bridge-
to raise up brick and mortar sides until intact-
Very late, but there is actually a good reason for it. Several east African people's had quite advanced iron and steel working Techniques and sold massive amounts of the material to mostly India, but Yemen too, where they'd be used to forge Swords.
So in this case it's a very direct reference to being rich enough of having one of the finest weapons made in that Time period
Ruins?
Nothing about early Islamic history makes any sense.
Your review is based on the hypothesis that Islam was not invented by Abdel Malik and backdated to the 7th century.
No one believes Islam was invented by Abd al Malik who is learned and sane
Muhammad Zubair ruled Mecca before Abdul Malik and they had mosques in those times. In fact Abi Waqas a companion of Muhammad was able to build a mosque in China in 637 AD.
U made a lot of mistakes TBH but since u appear sincere it’s quite clear that those mistakes were based on ignorance/faulty sources and not antagonism😜😜.. 1- u said that the prophet agreed to solve the problems of the people living in Medina if they converted when that’s not true, they accepted him because they wanted him to solve the problems btw the Jews and the Arabs, he was a monotheist and an Arab so he had a connection with both parties and they all agreed that they will unite against the Meccans... 2- u said that he United arabs on Arab nationalism when that’s clearly not true , I know that u don’t believe that he was a man of God but saying that they United on nationalism when He emphasized on his last sermon on the idea that there is no difference btw an Arab and a non Arab , also and I’m not sure about it 100% but I think that nationalism takes you out of the fold of Islam so things like Westphalian nation states are anti Islam by default .. flags and nationalities are against Islam and their existence are one of the reasons why the Muslim world is suffering right now... 3- the followers of Mohammed converted to Islam and we call them the “Sahaba” (Companions) and every caliph in Islamic history was Muslim, A caliph cannot be a non Muslim... 3- when it comes to women (and men) they had much more freedom before Islam but that doesn’t mean anything because we believe in collectivism and the laws of the sharia.. we do not believe in liberalism and the idea of do whatever you want as long as u don’t hurt people.. Islamic tradition was very flexible with women and there is reason we never had feminism because the demands of first wave feminism was already given to women 1400 years ago and I think u should read about women in Islamic tradition.. 4- the later caliphs didn’t ban women from religious and political authority, the prophet said that the caliph should always be a male and that’s why there was no female caliphs .. women were not excluded from religious authority why? Because we have a list of 10K female scholars and no other religion have something even close to this number, a lot of our great Muslim scholars were actually taught by women and like I said we know the biographies of every women who taught them..
How come you gloss over the oppression of dhimmitude?
Islam also incorporated parts of Zoroastrianism in it.
As did Christianity for its Germanic Pagan new converts
What do you mean the prophet and Khadijah never had children? They had six kids, 2 sons and 4 daughters.
Islam was not created until 680. Please see Peter Townsend's excellent history, The Mecca Mystery.
You are correct. Neither was Mecca ever a city of importance in that era. Muhammad did not grow up in Arabia but Syria. The whole Mecca site is a much later recreation of Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Marwa is mount Moriah. Sapha is Mount Scopus. The whole battle of Mu'tah makes no sense whatsoever unless you face the reality none of this "rise of Islam history" took place in Arabia.
@@anonymous-rj6ok More than that, Muhammad was not a historical person. He is a fictional character invented to unify an empire.
@@2Hesiod You're most likely correct. He's probably an amalgamation of multiple historical figures. One of specific interest is Nehemiah Ben Hushiel. He was involved in the revolt against Heraclius and was installed as exilarch after Jerusalem was conquered without bloodshed... the last part should ring a bell (its part of the surrender of Makkah myth). Jerusalem was conquered fighting alongside Sassanids then lost again. The first objective of those arabs, messianic jews surviving that war was always the reconquest of Jerusalem. Later this whole history was rewritten to revolve around Mecca, an insignificant place with no marker on any map of the time. Regardless of Muhammad being historical or not the Quraysh tribe lived in Syria - check the Dussaud map of Syria.
@@anonymous-rj6ok A good current video I'm watching: ruclips.net/video/yAUMXDD_8qc/видео.html
@@2Hesiodthat is ridiculous to say and impossible to justify. There is more evidence for Muhammad than Jesus and I doubt you would claim the same for him
Your videos have many mistakes.
- No one changed the fact, we believe that there were idols in Mecca before Islam but when Islam came and prophet muhammad PBUH conquered Mecca, almost all Meccans accepted Islam and Kaba was cleaned from idols.
- Islam means submition to the will of Allah (God).
- Khadija and prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had 6 children, 2 sons and 4 daughters.
- you make some stories just from yourself.
You said not all of the followers and some caliph were not Muslims.
Are you kidding ???😂😂😂.
All of the followers of prophet muhammad PBUH were muslims especially all of the caliphs.
Tell me which of the caliph wasn't muslim?? It doesn't make any sense.
Caliph is religious and political leader of the Muslims. How can I non muslim became the religious leader of the muslims.
Muhammad was a psychopathic conman and a confirmed pedophile. He had sex with Aisha when she was only NINE.
Sigh. You're relying solely on islamic religious sources, without any corroboration from the surrounding countries/empires. That is not how a true historian should work. I don't have time to debunk all the nonsense, but please read Tom Holland's work. Do you think that the Exodus is a historic event too, even if it's never mentioned by Egyptians or Hettites and lacks archeological evidence?
What in the hell are you talking about? I didn't use Islamic religious sources and I certainly don't regard the Exodus or the united kingdom of Israel as historical fact. How did you possibly get that impression from this video?
I am saying exactly what I am saying. The comparison with the Exodus was just to prove a point. I bow down in respect for your historical knowledge, and I very much enjoy your videos, but I consider myself very informed about this specific period of history/religion. I do not know which sources you use, but I am pretty sure that whatever they are, they are based on the the religious history of Islam, and not a historical view.
It is a fact that the name Muhammed was first mentioned about 60 years after his supposed death and inscribed in the Dome of the Rock. There are no contemporary accounts that even mention the word "muslims". They were called saraceens (even the medieval crusaders called them that). And what you call the teachings of Muhammed was by all historical reasoning not set until the 9th century, when the Hadiths and the Siras was canonized and even the whole of the Quran.
I am only asking you to take a scientific historical view of the rise of Islam/Saraceens and their conquest of most of the known world. The first ones to do this was the "german school" in the 70s, with historians like Crone/Cook/Luxenberg. And even though it is a risky business, you have contemporary scholars like Holland and Gibson. I am not saying that Muhammed never existed, but the traditional myth of him calling his followers to a jihad and the rightly guided caliphs, is probably just a myth. And there is absolutely no historical evidence of even the existence of Mecca where it is said to be, until the islamic sources told people so.
If you want to trade punches with me, then just tell me in what way Holland is wrong and you're right. Have you even read In the Shadow of the Sword? As far as I am concerned, you're just propagating islamic religious myths on this subject, and get pissed off because I tell you so. No different from biblical historians in the 19th century.
@Henrik G I haven't read Holland's work, nor do I plan to do so. I read his work on the Persian Wars and I was less than impressed with his scholarship. Whose work did Holland draw on? That would be a much better place to start. Calling Tom Holland a scholar is generous to the say the least. I'm not an expert on this period of history, but I asked a few people who are in the know prior to making this video. I have also read a little bit of Patricia Crone's work on the subject.
There is a minority view within the community of scholars who work on the rise of Islam that states that the entire chronology of the 7th Century, particularly in regard to the rise of Islam, is off. The reason why that theory hasn't caught on is because testing any historical theory from such a poorly attested period is rather difficult. If Tom Holland stated this as established fact, then he greatly overstated the case.
The view that I present here is not in any way a "religious" view or the "Islamic myth". The Islamic myth involves the newly converted Muslims being vastly outnumbered, winning because of the support of Allah, and conquering decadent empires full of infidels. It also involves all of the invaders being devout Muslims, when we know that being Muslim was not a requirement for service. The Islamic tradition also says that all of the tenets and teachings of Islam were fully in place prior to Muhammad's death, something that can't be proven by textual analysis.
I rather suspect based on how sharp your tone has been over this issue that you might be taking an Islamophobic perspective on the issue. Even if you hate Islam now, that is completely irrelevant to what happened in the 7th Century. The two issues are completely separate and should not be conflated.
Lucky for you, it's available for free here on RUclips, but any decent man would pay the cost it's worth for this masterpiece. Don't be afraid to learn something. :)
ruclips.net/video/smkusYsE4DE/видео.html
And I have to ask you. Are you a muslim? And Oh no, please don't call me an islamophobe. Please.
But back to reality. Historians have applied a historical analysis on chistianity and judaism for over a hundred years, and I applaud that too. But when it comes to t-h-a-t religion we don't do it, because then we either suffer from an irrational phobia, or we are just scared of the consequences. Grow up!
Inaccurate information about islam. Please read/refer to authentic islamic books don't be intellectually lazy. there is wealth of information about islam which is authentic.....stop adding your thoughts to it.
Islam is not tolerant of any religion. Surah 9:29 states 'Engage in war with those who do not believe in Allah and the last day'.
Well, Christians,Jews and Sabaens (star worshipers) etc dont believe in al Lah so according to the Quran and Muhammad the Muslims must fight them until they capitulate.
Lets continue the chapter 'And do not forbid what al-Lah and his messenger forbid and do not believe in the religion of truth (Islam)among those who have been given the book until they pay the Jizyah out of hand and they are subdued'.
The people of the book are the Jews and Christians they will be subdued and made to pay the Jizyah (a tax for non believers) Muhammad was a pedophile who married a child of six, a rapist,a bandit and war lord, this man if he existed is not from God and Lah cant be god as explained by Sahih Muslim in hadith 2749, where Lah explains he will remove anyone from existence who does not commit sin '; what god talks like this?
Islam is NOT Abrahamic, Abraham was Persian and the woman who became the mother of his child was Eygyptian so how does Persian + Egyptian = Arab? Islam is not what you think it is, read its OWN primary sources and learn, never trust what anyone tells you and always check for yourself. I recommend Christian Princes Live stream on RUclips, Mr Prince is one of the worlds foremost authorities on the subject of Islam.
Islam is an abrahamic religion. Muhammad is an Ishmaelite, the first son of Abraham.
You have clearly never read the primary source the Quran. You’ve read someone else’s clips and “sound bites” of information.
@@leviginsberg3022 hahaha , joka u have no idea. Nuff sed.
@@jeremygoldsmith4767 256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
Just like the Bible does not preach colonizing women and k*ling men for their resources