I just saw the video, yay. They didn't prove Merrill was wrong on anything he said in the first video, but they did clarify that all of the Manticore claims are compared to the 800 series. Here are my thoughts about what was covered in the video. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Let me start with the answer that Minelab gave to question #2 about why they listed the same output power of 1 watt (1MHz) which are far above the operating frequencies of a metal detector (
None of this matters. The proof is in detection/depth. Will Manticore detect certain targets better than the Equinox. I bet it does. I doubt the Nox will hit a 15-inch nickle in wet salt sand. The Manticore does! In a sense, the Manticore is more powerful.
Bingo - Dan - i think your original statement sent to Merrill answered the question /mystery and Merrill didn't recognize it for what it was - Lower frequencies use more power. Mark states that the power of the Manticore is more than the equinox but equivalent to the 3030. Minelab has lowered their search frequencies with the MC, getting more depth with the lower frequencies AND using more power in the process thus the bigger battery. I got about 9hrs off my manticore between 2 hunts.
Great explanation & info Dan! I also liked the email content you sent Merrill which he showed in this video. I think that email sums up the reality of tech vs sales spin. ML also has patents to protect, so ML sales may be limited in what they can say in their explanation. All the competitors detectors now perform like a Nox & I believe ML has patent infringement issues against other companies in play, so ML Sales may be very careful in what they say.
Merrill, this reminds me of the mocumentary Spinal Tap where he says, "yeah, but this amp goes to 11! it goes one louder" Thank you for holding their feet to the fire, they need to be held accountable for their statements. Great investigative reporting! Keep up the good work. And... thank you to all those who are technical enough to find the truth!
Nigel turn that Manticore to 11, when you have to go over the edge. Got a new one with the tagger still on it. Amazing sustain. Go out for a bite come back it would still be ringing. No don't touch it, don't even look at it.
As a retired engineering tech who worked in a sector involving beach and ground depth analysis, I thank you for this series. Best portion -NONE-YA. The brother of flim-flam gibberish😜 Just because some of us are not within the upper end budget of the Minelabs doesnt mean we pay no mind to their sales techniques. It IS our business and we thank you for poking that stick.
I think most people could scrape up enough dough to buy a Manticore. Unless you live near a highly trafficked beach like Merrill does, it's not worth it. There's simply not all that much to find in sparsely populated places, because there was less people to drop stuff. How much would you find in Greenland or Antarctica with a Manticore. How much would you find on the Moon ? We have a saying in antiquing, 'that place is picked'. Meaning, there's nothing left there. After an area has been hit hard, the returns dwindle- unless it's a busy area like NYC beaches. A high dollar detector doesn't put more valuables in the ground. It just finds what may still be there, and the number of old places where old gold, silver, jewelry were dropped, is less and less every day, as millions of detectors keep combing the world and pulling it out of the ground. there is not an unlimited supply of relics. Merrill is in a PRIMO spot because NYC is constantly replenishing its supply of lost valuables, their population is in the millions. It's a honey hole of metal detecting. An old farm homestead where people grew up in poverty, had little or no money, isn't going to have the ground filled with silver dollars. if they lost a silver dime they cried and looked for it. they were living in survival mode. you'll find relics, you won't find money, or very, very little. farmers didn't plow the field with a pocket full of silver and gold coins.
@@tunnelportterror Im terminally ill living on $800 a month-it was a huge purchase for me to afford a Simplex+. If you really believe most people can “scrape together” enough for a $1600 machine, please feel free to scrape together that amount and drop it in my medical emergency fund 😆😆Ill run by fantasyland and pick it up😆
Thanks for thinking outside the box for us all. I've been using a Garrett 2500 since 2005 and find that the depth it puts out is very much the same as the Equinox. The only difference or issue that I have with the Garrett is that it weighs around six pounds which is extremely heavy to swing all day!!! lol I've been looking for a new detector for quite a while now and have followed all 700 of your videos to help me decide on what my next purchase would be, but $1500 verses $500 is quite a large investment for me since I'm now 63 years old and love metal detecting but just can't swing that heavy detector any longer. You have given me a tremendous amount of knowlege over the last couple of years and I most certainly appreciate that from You! Keep the videos coming even if it hurts someones feelings! Us true, Americans, are tired of throwing our hard earned money away on marketing scemes and lining the pockets on someone else just to have a little joy in what we LOVE TO DO!!! Thank you again, Merrill for your knowledge!!!
Had a GTI-2500 up until a couple of years ago. Sold it - too heavy as you stated. At nearly 70 years old now, swinging a Garrett Apex/WHP and a Deus II now. Both are less than half the weight of the GTI-2500. With rechargeable batteries, and wireless headphones linked to the pin pointer, both are light years ahead in performance and features over the GTI-2500. There are other makes that are less expensive than the Apex/WHP or even the Deus II, like the Nokta Simplex or the Nokta Legend. HH.
@@DIG_5050 I've been using the vanquish 540 for the last year and it is amazing. Runs the same basic software of the 800 nox with fewer choices but still amazing. It runs deep .Finds amazing things and has good screens. iron can be killed and it has 4 great presets for different kinds of hunts. I paid i think 435 for the best kit and have no regrets. I also now have the manticore and it too is a fantastic machine. However; if i was still budgeted like a year ago i would recommend and keep using the 540 with no complaints. it is also very light, about 2lbs plus a bit.
Thank you for raising these questions and for providing an update with Mark Lawrie's answers. The amount of transmitted power going into the ground and amplifying the return signal using the sensitivity settings are two different things entirely. At least on all the Equinox models, the amount of power going into the ground cannot be adjusted by the user. Beach 2 does automatically regulate transmit power according to salt and iron levels encountered. The other Equinox modes have a fixed, preset amount of power that is transmitted into the ground. I am not a Manticore owner so I don't know if there is a transmit power user setting. The different sensitivity levels of 0 to 25, 28 and 35 on the original Equinox, Equinox 900 and the Manticore only apply to amplifying the return signal. I agree with Loren Lemke. Mr Lawrie provided two very good answers to question 1 and 2 for anyone that can translate them from gibberish to something understandable. FCC regulated radiated limits of radio frequency energy from antennas and transmitters and as Mr Lawrie describes them.....low frequency reactive magnetic fields going into the ground from metal detectors are two different things. If a hobby metal detector could transmit its low frequency reactive magnetic field over long distances measured in many meters........that would start to fall into the FCC regulated radiated limits.
What I’ve found and feel in my heart after a month of the manticore is that on the great sites I pounded with the 800 I believe the 800 did an incredible job of cleaning up the high conductor silver signals and the manticore is separating out the deep and on edge copper. 13” penny is very doable with the manticore yet I’ve not had a deep silver yet. All this being said I’ve hit 30 silver and 11 gold on the year so something is right with the manticore! Lastly the purchase of the manticore has not left me feeling let down at all, I love it and would recommend it to anyone that has the experience with minelab products and can afford it!
I sold my NOX 800 three months after I bought my Deus II. Last April I programmed the Deus II to find silver coins. Since then I have dug 150 silver coins, and some of those coins were found where I had hunted with my NOX 800.
@@harrysurtees8710 that’s pretty wild! I’ve heard many great things about the D2 for sure but I went with the manticore and for me the transition was so easy, I was a little worried that the D2 would be to much to learn for me. Keep up the good work!
@@huntinquincy4238 Thanks quincy. I canceled my Manticore and ordered the 900 instead. I just got it today so now I have a backup that is going to be an awesome machine, I'm sure. It's my belief that the new Minelab or XP metal detectors are all great machines, and you can't go wrong. Happy hunting.
Im with you merril , 50% more power no good if you carnt use it or even control it, for eg 200mph car when speed limit on roads is 70mph . thanks for the video
The search coil is the antenna. dBm is a unit of measure which states how much radiated energy is being emitted from the antenna. In this case, the dBm measurements are made in close proximity to the search coil which allows for the measurement of its output power. Minelab is required by the FCC to disclose the radiated output power, which in this case is the same as all their other metal detectors. If they are radiating different power levels at different frequencies, then they should disclose them. Maybe you can request the dBm levels for all their individual frequencies? This is not a secret as anyone with the equipment can set a receiving antenna next to the search coil and measure the output dBm under their different frequencies.
Can you tell me what the rated power output of the Equinox 800 and the Manticore is? If you can't, then you cannot make the statement that minelab's power output is the same across their entire line of machines. Without knowing the actual difference between the power output of the Equinox & the Manticore Merrill also cannot make the claim that Minelab is lying. I think he realized that.
With induction metal detectors the search coil is a transducer, not an antenna. It does not radiate EM energy the way an antenna does so you cannot measure transmit power. But the FCC still makes us measure power emissions, which is why all metal detectors pass, even when the TX is cranked up by 50%.
the search coil is the transmitter, and the receiver antenna in one. these devices would not be difficult to soup up. but ask yourself how deep do you really want to dig. the old Whites 808d detected from 4 feet deep and beyond. do you want to dig a 4 foot hole to find something ? you'd have to own the property to do that. or be on an archeological site, and need a backhoe. the sane limits are 24" and even that is a ton of work. if the detector can hit 15"--18" that's plenty. let me make an analogy. I have an old '94 Mercedes coupe with a V12 engine, I got for $1500 not running, and fixed up. It has a top speed of 183mph. it was designed for the Autobahn. can I use that here in the USA with a 65mph speed limit. no, I can't. it's just bragging rights. going 100mph in traffic will already have surpassed the bounds of common sense. digging beyond 18" is like going over 100mph. how much further do you really want to go ?
The next time you go to buy a car and the seller shows you the most expensive justifying the price largely because it is the most powerful of the brand, but the brand does not tell you the horsepower or characteristics of that car or of none of the other brand motors to compare and decide, don't panic. It's Minelab Marketing. Buy on a leap of faith. The consumer wants to know the transmitting power of the detectors, but is not told. It is more powerful "because I said so"
Thanks so much for doing this, as a small channel without a strong capital base it is important info to know that a used nox 800 will be a better fit for my budget when the time comes.id rather be the kid on the playground with hand me downs than to have sacrificed financially for no extra gain or just for the assumed prestige
Message for Mark at minelab Merril has 20 metal detectors How about you send him the 15" coil for the manticore so he can test it against his Nox It's worth it just for this vlog TICK THE LIKE BUTTON 🍀🙂
Merrill you poked the Hornet’s Nest and provoked Mine Lab into stepping up to the podium to speak about their published claims. People invest a substantial amount of money and they do expect a level of performance equal to the quality and cost of the devices they use. Other users of Metal Detectors test and raise questions on performance issues of the devices they invest time and money in. The Metal Detector Community is passionate, dedicated and committed to educating the community of users who care deeply about the devices in the marketplace. Thanks Merrill for bringing this up and into the discussion.
I'm a retired electronics tech, power is measurable. I challenge Minelab to prove that there is more power going into the ground. Minelab is guilty of false/misleading advertising. They are playing with words, semantics if you will. Great work, don't cave in to a phone call from "the man".
I worked at a microwave TV transmitter receiver and antenna Corp. for years. 175 people, I supervised 6. 3 bays of assemblers, 3 shifts around clock. power is measurable
I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering and the highest level ham radio license. You are entirely correct: power out can be measured and controlled!
This is why my grandfather reworked our two Whites 6000 Pro SL detectors. Kinda like when we would peak out our old CB radios and add on amps. This is not a big deal with a CB but is a huge problem with a metal detector. With a metal detector peaking out the device leads to issues with the coil, the processor and ground balancing. He had the equipment and experience to get it done and it still took him 5 years to balance everything out. Other than the battery consumption those old 6000's rocked in their day. This was a thing back in the early 90's. Good job NYC
@@ronpflugrath2712 right, we ended up with a battery pack on a belt! Good times as a teenager. We did the same thing with the JW Fisher Pulse 8 and the old Garrett Sea Hunter 500. We made a fiberglass and wood barge to tow behind the Jon boat with the coil embedded in the hulls for the PI machines. Looking back I think he was just keeping me busy, having fun and away from the wrong crowd. My conclusion today is it's not about the power as much as the coil and processor in the unit. Good times.
Thanks for standing up for us detectorists Merrill and searching for the truth😊.100 hrs on my manticore so far. Pulling silvers and coppers from the sites I pounded with 800 and 15 inch coil. Pulled lots of iron at first, now I’m used to the audio and know lots of other little tricks to dig less of it.
@@crazycressy7986 A field is never worked out especially if it is a ploughed field. I have fields like your roman site and I keep going back and items still turn up. 🙂. The funny thing for me is I use an old Minelab Explorer II from new in 2005 and on pasture I think it has brilliant depth but because how the machine is set I find zero iron but and this I know for a fact is my machines achillies heel is that on sites covered in iron my machines struggles to separate the good finds. 😩. This is where I think an upgrade would work on a lot of my old sites and I am actually thinking of a Minelab Equinox 800. 🙂.
@myview1875 my bro in law had one great detector ,then he went to a CTX and he found some great finds in iron infested areas and no problem seeing through the coke ,so I got one as well as my ATPRO was struggling and even worse once they spread cow muck on the fields ,he then got a 800 because of his back and I've just had a major back operation so I got a 800 6 months ago ,and boy they like the tiny little finds ,we've had some deep groats at a good 13" ,and just had 6 gold sovereigns but I was using my CTX that day ,love the 800 but you do miss the 2D screen ,ok I hit a bit more iron but I don't want to miss anything, my Roman licking dog hoard sounded like a horse shoe with a halo ,glad I dug it as it paid us £110k lol ,lots of ppl say "it's bought sites back to life" but the realty is that they are using a new detector and getting use to the sounds so they dig more ,and it's normally beginners that finds hoards ,I only use my ears ,never go by numbers ,if it beeps dig it ,if in doubt dig it out
@Freedom Diggers Metal Detecting just watched one of your videos ,boy you haven't a clue and Merrill did not say the Manticore was not a good detector, he was on about the wording Minelab used to sell the Manticore, dude wake up
Shame on minelab. They think viewers are idiot. Luckily detectorist community have someone like merill , Dan and few others who study and made some research about what minelab claim on their manticore
Just to clarify a bit about power measurement … Decibels (dB) are measured using a base 10 logarithmic scale. When used for RF (radio frequency) power, the scale begins at 0dBm which is one milliwatt or .001 watts of power. The plus (+)30dBm level mentioned in the FCC specification refers to 100 times that or 1 watt. Minelab specs the Manticore power level at minus (-)30dBm which equates to 0.000001 Watts which is not even close to being relevant. I agree with Dan Blankenship in saying that lower frequencies will travel further (and deeper) than higher ones. I don’t know what the actual individual power levels for each frequency of the detector. Perhaps if they were unequal Minelab may have flattened out the curve and made them similar. Also RF power can be measured in peak power or average power. If average power is used for measuring multifrequency output, then there is opportunity for Minelab to shift things around a bit and use some creative math to justify the “more power in the ground” claim by boosting lower frequencies and attenuating the higher ones. Another factor is the isolation between the transmit and receive sides of the coil. You don’t want the receiver hearing the signal the transmitter is sending. The detector compares these two signals against each other and measures the phase difference between them to sense and determine conductivity of the target. Minelab may have made some improvements in this area to enhance the resolution at the power levels being used. Regardless, Minelab seems to have wandered into the fog a bit with their claims of more power. I would think a deep dive into their design would be necessary to prove things out which they certainly will not be willing to do publically. Bottom line … If you think you’ll like the detector, buy it and enjoy.
Hi Merrill, Great video. I think Minelab’s response to the 50% power increase was a complete word salad. I’ll hold off on my purchase and continue research and watching your videos. Thanks for providing excellent content.😊
honestly...I'd buy the Deus. Value winner is Legend. the sounds the Manticore makes when it hits a find, get annoying. I had a brand new Whites MXT and sold it in a week, it honked loudly like a pissed off goose when it hit metal. I thought, no way I'm listening to that sound all day. gee why not just fingernails on a chalk board already.
Interesting discussion. What maybe a point here is that although the FCC has a limit of 1 watt or 30 dbm, that does not mean every metal detector is using that maximum. It merely means one cannot exceed that limit. Therefore the real question is how much of that FCC limit is being used by the Manticore compared to the older 600 and 800 Equinox models (and other metal detectors). I think determining what the power level is at various frequencies is where to make the fairest comparison. Example: if the 800 uses x amount of power for Y frequency how does that compare to what the Manitore uses? This to me is how to decide if there really is more power going into the ground with the Manticore.
Merrill, we would love to see you bury some targets in the wet beach sand and take the manticore, the 900, and compare it to the 800 to see if its worth upgrading....if its only an inch more depth it doesn't seem feasible to upgrade.
The word power seems tobe a powerful marketing tool...i think a more truthful claim would be 50% better efficiency. Looking forward to seeing this machine working in all types of environments and see the depth it can pull tagets. Thanks again Merril. Good luck hunting.
Just watched the video. What an excellent analysis of the Manticore sales pitch! Thanks, Merrill! "You da' man!" As a ham operator with an Extra Class license, we do a lot of stuff with dB's. With reference to the dBm scale, Google "dBm" and go to Wikipedia. There you will find a very complete table of dBm values = watts. Specifically from the table, (−30 dBm 1.0 μW = 1000 nW ). The -30 dBm is the FCC limit of RF power for metal detectors as I understand it. Many times in general commentary and literature we see metal detector limit of RF power at the coil is 1.00 watt. I find this to be quite a discrepancy compared to what the FCC actually allows. Further, I will assume the FCC limiting requirement would apply to EACH frequency transmitted. Considering Manticore's added frequency of 2.4 kHz, I agree this would mean more (50% ??) added "power to the coil" as MineLab claims, but not necessarily to the ground. Loved the "none ya"!
Good job, Merrill. That should make Minelab happy. My biggest gripe with them is not the technology in their detectors but the roll-out of their detectors. The roll-out of the Manticore (which is still going on, btw) was just awful. Then they stuck the new Equinoxes right in the middle of the roll-out and really screwed things up. I'm sure they had their reasons but the silence when many people have already paid a dealer is unfathomable. I will NEVER buy another Minelab product that isn't available for IMMEDIATE shipment.
Hi Merril, love this video.. However... going back to the shot of the safety manual that showed the power output. Did you happen to also notice the operating frequencies listed!?? Manticore 2.5 - 143kHz, Equinox 3.7 - 143kHz !? The published operating Frequencies are 5 - 40kHz for the Manticore and EQ, where is the rest of the detecting frequency range?? Seems kinda odd they make a machine with that capability and only utilize roughly 28% of the operating range... Just another observation.
Merrill as a teacher one of the most important things is to summarize the learnings. I’m confused on Minelabs responses and whether they are accurate or not. I had difficulty in following some of MineLabs responses. Possibly do a follow up to this video on summarizing what we learned?
I think Minelab did a good job answering the first 2 questions, but their answer to the 3rd question feels intentionally vague again. Was hoping for some real engineering and science in the answer, but reads like a heavily sanitized PR response. Still, I don't think they are lying, I just hoped they would have dove much deeper into the answer. But I get it, they want to protect the secret sauce. Props to you Merrill for handling everything so well and with integrity.
I agree. They cannot go into much detail without revealing their intellectual property, which they would not do. It is a tough job to sell you a great detector and then come back 3 years later with another one that goes 1/2" deeper in certain conditions and charge you another $1500. It is a tough sell.
I disagree. I think they are lying and you can tell by Marks body language that he is uncomfortable talking about it. Either that or he is very poor PR person to the point that he gets almost agitated when pushed on certain question/answers.
I am pretty much a noob to detecting about a year and a half with an AT max and just got a nox 900 and hunting the same ground has produced more silver coins than in those 1.5 years with the max. A park near me I grided 2 directions in custom then a final sweep in all metal mode I got coins but no silvers. Sweeping the same spot with the 900 the target separation ability began to shine I started to pop silver. I had to start clearing out the bad targets in that patch to open up more ground but, so far 12 silver canadian dimes and 3 quaters. To be fair I think the cobwebs will have to be wiped off the max and get a chance at redemption on the same patch but, seems like night and day at separation so far (had the 900 for 2 weeks now and about 18 - 20 silver coins with it all on previously AT MAX hunted ground) another park I thought I cleared out all the high tones with the max and gave it the 900 treatment and ended up with 89 more pennies and 2 more silver dimes in one day. My take so far is it sucks the bigger coil for the equinox is not cheaper lol. Is there a way to set the nox or AT max for just deep silver? because so far I don't think any of those silvers in that patch have been deeper than 8-9 inches with the nox. I think it's possible there might be a yet deeper older layer under those 1960 and 1950 coins one of the deepest dimes was 1907 the rest was 1943- 1957.
Merrill I think what you showed is what I call double talk. I saw the original video you produced and I think you have every right to question Minelab. I have only detected for about 5 years so I’m far from an expert. I do know many Equinox users in the club I’m part of stepped up to the Deus2 and left me in the dirt. The idea that you have to run you coil over it to detect it has changed. If you put a quart on the ground and run the Equinox coil laying the ground towards it you will pick it up maybe one inch away. My Deus 2 starts signaling maybe three inches away. That is important when your on the beach trying to grid an area. Thanks for your explanation and great work.
Merrill...you showed great decorum in dealing with this Minelab situation and if this is how you conduct your classroom I'd be proud to be your student....mind you at my old age I'd be a major distraction (77) ... Keep up with the no BS detecting
New video , question and answers, all well handle by both party. I have the 800, awaiting for the Manticore. Marsh and mud is my detecting site. I upgraded to give me all chances to find more clues, about the extend of the Acadian dike, still visible, and more clues for the charting of the Acadian village, burned in 1755. Every inches count. Thank you for the review you make. And you represent well the detectection hobby world. I appreciated your review, and detection adventures.
Minelab did come clean on depth. 👌 Look up Whites 808d on RUclips. That's real power, 4 feet down and beyond. Now you know why USA had to defend England & Australia from Japan during WW2.
I happen to be watching this video today because in a few days I will begin testing the Manticore under exasperated conditions in my area. After more than 11 years of using Ctx, an instrument I have not abandoned in favor of Eqx in spite of less detection depth. What the vast majority of Ctx owners expect, myself included, is to find the stability of IDs in the presence of valuable targets.The fact that to someone a coin is as interesting as or more than a diamond ring matters little. What matters is that after spending almost $2,000 on the full complement of accessories, the instrument responds efficiently. It will be a tough battle to retire Ctx, and for now I simply say: we shall see. I can only compliment you Merrill, like all your content, the tone of the information you disseminate is free from influence of any kind.Excellent!
1 watt is still one watt. The performance increase is caused by the lower frequency and improved processor POWER. The real energy going into the ground is still regulated by the FCC. Bottom line here is more power should have been labeled More Processor Power.
@@UNDERGROUNDCALLING0161 Receiver has the better processors and that I already mentioned the signal goes to the processors that is where the improvement lies. More power to the receiver makes a noisy detector...
@@davidlewis9068 yeah it uses better processor algorithms and Probibly more volts in the chip to process the hotter signal it’s getting from the receiver that is using 50 percent more volts into the ground. Like you said chattery ..... but without that discrimination algorithm it is probably much worse. So really it could be putting 50 percent more power into the ground in the receiver end. AND have the new algorithm as stated.
There is an easy indirect way to prove power output by measuring power input. Find a way to measure battery current while the unit is under test. I used a sensitive hall effect clamp on DC Ammeter. Also, find a way to measure battery voltage while the unit is under test. Power (Watts) is Volts times Amps. Measure both the voltage and current under normal operation. Then, measure the voltage and current after disconnecting the coil. Calculate both wattages and subtract them from each other. My White's PulseScan SL was 10.81v and 394 mA with coil connected. Disconnected, I had 10.92v and 65 mA. Difference is 3.55 watts that my coil was drawing. Remember, this is power in. Radiated power out from the coil will be less as nothing is 100% efficient. Using the above would allow you to see the effects of selecting different frequencies, profiles, and comparing detectors to each other, as well as comparing the same models to each other to see if you have a weak one.
The transmitter power "is regulated". Getting more of that power into the ground was the trick. They had to redesign the electronics, battery supply and the coil to reduce parasitic losses in the detector itself. I'm also sure they did the same on the receiver side of the detector, making the detector able to pick up the weaker returns. The problem is Minelab does not want the competition to know exactly how they did it and therefor the vague responses on their claims. I will say this, in the US many companies get away with these types of false claims, but I guarantee you that is not true in the EU or Australia. Many companies have been sued and fined, even shut down, for such claims and Minelab and their legal team are well aware of that.
I dont think so! Double the sending power result in 64 times more signal, and. Over 4000 times more battery consuming its called the 6th power LAW. Its bogus! And i am a minelab user. Have 4 of them. And over 42 years... i am dissapointed in the company telling lies! And... here in Holland its €2000,- and its stil a disposable machine.
@@scoopingdutchman4325 It's apparent you have no grasp on frequency modulation or coil induction and I have 12 years of hands on. So, before you attack you need to cool your jets and do some real research. Just changing the coil wire diameter or wire configuration can increase the output of the coil without increasing the input power.
@@vernowen2083 i already know that. A bigger coil ( bigger sending and receiving spiral) means more cubic inches under the bigger coil.. and yes they go also a little bit deeper. But, it means also that you increase the signals coming in the control box. And there is the problem.. you have to put your sensitivity down of mineralisation . I am only searching on beaches. And ,, as far as you want to speak from a attack? And cooling my jets down? I havent even starting them! I rever at the video with the minelab man.. he was talking about 50% more power? No not output power.. it is the secret sauce! I heard that Many times before, and that is what i mean with BOGUS! . Lets see if i ever met someone with a manticore compare with my sovereign or excalibur . Yes manticore is faster and new! But Who is deeper? And i am not talking about millimeters. The manticore is a €2000,- machine and still disposable! What about after the 3 year of warranty. I had plenty of problems with my disposable €1000 nox. I am off.. after all those years. And i have everything written with respect for you, and for minelab. I hope they wake up! .. so,, don’t be to sensitive! regards scooping dutchman.
I guess I'm going to get me a hair dryer at least it has three settings😃 Hey does anybody out there have a way of setting up a machine and actually testing the output I'm sure one of your followers can actually measure that. It be very interesting that the manticore puts out 50% more than its supposed to then the FCC allows Would they have to recall the All their machines because it's not within the guidelines. I like to see somebody do that test what do you think that would be really interesting😜
The problem seems to be the fuzziness of marketing in interpreting precise engineering definitions. As an engineer, I do not see how "more power can be put into the ground" if they are observing the FCC Part 15 rules. Putting more computing power on a device, changing the antenna configuration, increasing battery capacity, etc., does not "put more power into the ground" if they maintain the FCC limit. There are some very clear definitions that are being waltzed around, here, for the purpose of selling products. I have long contended the role of marketing everywhere is to quibble. As a West Point Graduate, that was defined to me as lying. But the American public seems to have accepted quibbling as something different than lying. Thank you for clearing this up for detector users.
Great video and great job getting to the bottom of it!👍 Well, larger magnetic field would definitely explain the increased nail falsing issues. My experience with the 800 is the hotter you run, the more falsing and you just have to work with that by pulling back on sensitivity. I’m sure people were hoping for better as I was. Maybe the next generation machines will be able to handle it better or maybe there will be an update that will help. Could just be that you need a sniper coil as I do with the 800 on those sites. I guess if nail infested sites are your bread and butter and you were hoping for much better then maybe for the $, the 900 would be more appropriate.
Nice job on this vid Merrill, I appreciate the insight you've given us/me. Looking forward for more info on the Manticore. Take care and find lots of treasures 👍😎
Thanks Merrill for advocating the truth representing all your fellow detectorist , especially minelab users like myself. I will be upgrading from a 600 to a 700.Keep your logical and entertaining videos coming !
This post got so interesting. Thanks!! My take away from all this is. The DB spec applies to the bluetooth which is in the MHz range. It does not apply to the VLF range (4 to 100KHz) comming out of the coil. The VLF most likely has far lower power output then the bluetooth. I first thought that the All-Terrain High conductor was just using more battery power because it used more processing power. Now I am betting that this mode is sending more power into the ground. It is amazing how secertive that Minelab is about the level of power comming out of the coil. Battery life and weight is such a critical part of the end users acceptance of the detector. Again very interesting thanks.
Ok Merrill, Great Video, Hmmmm. Now wonder why nobody has mention this and if they have sorry. The Fcc regulates the power out put on all Electronics. BUT some folks take CB radios down to certain shops, and power up. Wonder if that can be done to a detector too and what would happen. 🤔
From other reading I've done about doing something like this, you would create more problems. Too much power in the ground can cause falsing because of the iron and other ferrous material being energized more.
Besides the algorithm the only place they can play with the power and not change the transmitter is in the coil(aka antenna) since that can change the power without changing the transmitted power.
In my video tomorrow , we compare the Equinox to the Manticore with an air test and then we use a milliGAUSS meter to measure the signal distance from the coils . The Equinox measured 2.5 (mG) at 26 inches and the Manticore measured 2.5 (mG) at 30 inches . From my tests the Manticore does have a stronger signal strength .
I love the hard work you have done trying to resolve the power issue discussion though IMO - I would want to see a sample of the magnetic fields being emitted from both the Manticore and the former Equinox. As explained by Mark in other videos the Manticore emits 50% more magnetic field and Minelab equates that to power or at least that is how I perceived it. I know my Sovereign and my Sovereign GT had a really tight magnetic field meaning the linear boundary was smaller than the coil size vs the Equinox which reaches out beyond the coil size. Keep up the great work!
Minelab's opportunity was missed IMHO. They would have done better, say building a non-wired coil, lightweight 900 ..... a Minelab version of the XP Deus if you would. I'd buy that, but until then, my Deus 2 is fine.
Well done Merrill. Whether it's concealing guarded company secrets, or marketing play on words, Minelab still is not objectively proving their claims. For whatever the reason, they still sound weaselly overall. Think I'll wait for the live results from your future videos to really decide their reluctance to be totally transparent. Or, the Manticore 2 that will put 100% more power into the ground. Thanks for your efforts.
Enjoyed this and the hilarious original video. Worth remembering that extra 'power into the ground' can be obtained by tiny changes to coil design, material choices and these are added together. It comes down to modelling and prototyping.
KUDOS! I do have to say that, for sure. I have and use the CTX and have for years now. The one reason that I own it is due to the fact that when it came out it impressed me. Everything that it can do along with actually finding metal targets in the ground. Have come across others in the field and they say, 'You still swinging that old thing?' (They are usually swinging the Nox. My answer to them, 'Yes I am.' It still impresses me that it can do all of what it does do. Not an easy, turn-on-and-go machine. Owned 2 different Minelab machines before it. This one impressed me so much that I had to have it. To the people swinging the Nox...I still haven't been impressed with anything that it can do over the CTX....other than the weight is a big difference. To me, the flip side of the same coin is the Manticore, the CTX without all the other things that it can do...wrapped up in a Deus sized package. (Even kind of looks a little like the Deus) And BTW I do own the original Deus and would like to own the Deus 2. That said. The only reason I own the one I do is that it has impressed me with what it can do. And there are so many and I mean soooooo many tweaks you can do (with at least the first model but don't know about the second) to change the detector to make it fit the environment you are trying to detect. There are so many variables when it comes to metal detecting and outside noise, mineralization, I could make a very long list. Some places seem almost undetectable due to the iron that is in the ground, or outside interference (power lines, above ground or below) so many factors. What all of it comes down to, is what you learn and feel dies the best job for you. Use it. I live both my CTX and Deus. Both have their spots and both have their weaknesses. Just as any detector. Got to love you got the attention of the personnel at Minelab. One thing about all that has been mentioned is that most people don't care about the hype, power, or anything else. It comes down to one thing for them....will it find goodies with ease. And if it doesn't then why buy it. Turn on and go is what most want...without tweaking anything. If you like to fiddle with things to get the most out of your detector. Then get the CTX or the Deus. If tou dont like all the buttons or just want to find stuff, then get a turn on and go type detector. As easy as that. I like all the nitty-gritty so keep it up. Well done!
I have owned the Equinox 600. I have no other machine experience to base it on but I have found some incredible treasures. I purchased the Manticore for fun and it will take me many hours to learn it to my level with the EQUI. My question does relate to Minelab's claim of "More Power". Page 17 of the manual states, Mode - All Terrain- High Conductors (This is a high powered search mode that will reduce battery runtime by approximately one hour) WHY? I live in central NY. We too are bottle cap, pull tab and nail trash heaven. I respect the time you've invested to the hobby. Thank you.
I compared a target that was a small Sterling british threepence with the eqnox 800 and Manticore at 8 inches. and the Manticore was giving a loud string signal and the eqnox was struggling to get a reading. The eqnox had,the minelab 15 inch coil on.
Wow. Thank You for this. I think my favorite pull from this was your line,,,The art of metal detecting . Man you are a true champion to this wonderful hobby,,,
All said and done I'll be purchasing another Minelab. I still believe that Minelab with the 700, 900 and the Manticore, three out of five best detectors many can buy. The other two being the Legend & Dues 2.
So basically, I can pay another $1000 and get just over an inch depth than the Legend perhaps? I already hit as deep as I want to dig with my Legend now. Thanks but no thanks. Great in depth video Merrill.
FCC is sensitive to RF not frequencies under 50 kHz and even into the audio range. You can double the 4khz power for example and not be an issue in RF. And if you double power in these audio frequencies you will get higher amplitude returns from targets. OBN uses a little voice coil like from old telephones to actually hear the detector tx signal. Try this Equinox vs Manticore - maybe you can hear an improvement in distance?
Merrill, if you start a Patreon account, I would definitely contribute. I am sure that there are others who would, as well. That could be a nice stepping stone to create content for us, full time. Who’s in, thumbs up or reply below.
You are going viral again, thanks for sharing, I love it. I am happy with my Deus 2, I like that you get the answers and your editing skills are great.
Love all your videos buddy. Thank you for your candor. I think it would be great if you can come together with that other group of 3 gentlemen that have argued differently. A peaceful coming together of the minds is always a great thing. More power to you buddy. Will always be on your side and support your channel.
Googling "difference between radiofrequency and electromagnetic frequency" seems to indicate there is a difference between the two. Apparently the electromagnetic frequencies metal detectors utilize fall well below the threshold that the FCC monitors on higher frequency radio waves. So saying all their metal detectors fall below the max threshold the FCC monitors makes sense. So how strongly a detector projects that electromagnetic field into the ground is based on something else, as mentioned in the video the technology put into it channeling more juice into the field.
The Minelab representative mentions in passing that the Manticore battery has a greater capacity than the Equinox battery, and that Minelab chose to use this additional capacity to increase the transmission power. Does anyone have the actual mAh figures for the Manticore and Equinox batteries to verify this claim?
Great follow up video. They have now given you a truly testable claim, if the right person with the electronics skills can step up ... 50% more electrical power sent to the coil.
Hi Merrill. I've been using my Manti for 3 days now at the beach. I used an 800 for 4 years previously. So far I have pulled 2 small 10K gold items (pendant, small chain bracelet) at a depth that I don't believe my 800 would have hit.
Soooo.... At one point mark stated that they put a bigger battery in the manticore... Could that be the " 50 % more power " he is referring to ??? If so.... What a spin on specs.... I personally think the manticore was a complete hype show.... And it's performance does not rival any of its competitors... I'm a very simple man and I think I'll stick to my simplex....
A battery can NOT give you more power. Larger batteries only give you more run time. Superb video as always Merrill 👏🏻 Stay well and be lucky out there 🤞🏻🍻
So all this is new to me. But I thank you for all the knowledge I have been gaining. I wonder if it’s like dc voltage. 12v is 12v but there is different strengths of 12v. Well I’m not sure but I do know the detector are getting better every year. Thanks for the videos
What a great video explaning and helping us understand the marketing jargon. I still want the Minelab Manticore though, and I think it is the best, most capable coin detector on the market at this time. I love watching your videos, especially now that it is the dead of winter here in Utah and we can't get out to detect.
I've got the 600 and the new 700. No difference in depth, no difference in separation, But I do like the VDI to 99 and the new deep tone. That really helps narrow down targets more specifically. Great Video! It will be interesting to see future response from Minelab.
If there isn’t a difference I feel they should have just thrown the 2D map on the 700 & 900 and presented it that way. Would have probably had more sales at more reasonable prices for consumers.
@@paulmartin3946 the 900 goes to 28 sensitivity the 600 and 700 are still 25. Which higher sensitivity would give a slight edge over the 600 and 700 in good ground conditions. The 700 is built exactly as the 900. Have you used the 700?
Merrill, I know you like the Nox 800, and for a long time that is all that I saw you swing. I got one because a lot of the RUclipsrs were using them. I will say this, my best finds came from a Garrett AT Max. The depth is just about the same as the Nox 800, but I find that the Garrett sound is easier to tell the good from the junk. I was thinking about the Manticore or the XP Deus 2. At this time I am leaning more to the Duce because of the weight, and the depth in the water. THANKS MERRILL FOR THE VIDEOS THEY CAME AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR ME!
Simple answer to question 2 is that the magnetic field coil puts into the ground is not regulated by FCC...is not considered to be radio transmission so therefore may actually be 50% more than NOX 800 just as they stated...it is not regulated by FCC.
But it is rf energy and it has a maximum set by the FCC. Dbi is the antenna gain and they made no mention of that, just the dbm which is the transmitted power.
Try approaching the question of stated emitted power by experimentation. Under a control measure the actual power of the emitted magnetic field at different distances (lengths), and then compare contrast it to other detectors in your collection at a given frequency, i.e. *00 v Manticore (with same loop size, full battery, etc) - The strength of the magnetic field emitted by the Manticore is expressed in units of Tesla (T), microtesla (µT), Gauss (G) or milligauss (mG) (1 G is equivalent to 10-4 T (or 1 mG = 0.1µT) and may be measured using a gauss meter. You may even be able to use an app on your phone designed to use the built in magnetometer to see the relative change in the numbers it produces. While the output values will not be exact due to many variables, you will still be able to see a relative difference in different detectors. Experiment and if you have questions or would like me to do a video demo for you then I will be happy to help, but always best to make your own attempt first with the clues and suggestions I have given you. Cheers.
keep up the good work!! I will say that i have now gone over some places that i have pounded with my nox and found 50% more items so maybe that is what they meant haha :) either way keep up the good work. 😁
I just saw the video, yay.
They didn't prove Merrill was wrong on anything he said in the first video, but they did clarify that all of the Manticore claims are compared to the 800 series.
Here are my thoughts about what was covered in the video.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Let me start with the answer that Minelab gave to question #2 about why they listed the same output power of 1 watt (1MHz) which are far above the operating frequencies of a metal detector (
Thank you! 👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼😁
None of this matters. The proof is in detection/depth. Will Manticore detect certain targets better than the Equinox. I bet it does. I doubt the Nox will hit a 15-inch nickle in wet salt sand. The Manticore does! In a sense, the Manticore is more powerful.
Bingo - Dan - i think your original statement sent to Merrill answered the question /mystery and Merrill didn't recognize it for what it was - Lower frequencies use more power. Mark states that the power of the Manticore is more than the equinox but equivalent to the 3030. Minelab has lowered their search frequencies with the MC, getting more depth with the lower frequencies AND using more power in the process thus the bigger battery. I got about 9hrs off my manticore between 2 hunts.
Great explanation & info Dan!
I also liked the email content you sent Merrill which he showed in this video. I think that email sums up the reality of tech vs sales spin. ML also has patents to protect, so ML sales may be limited in what they can say in their explanation.
All the competitors detectors now perform like a Nox & I believe ML has patent infringement issues against other companies in play, so ML Sales may be very careful in what they say.
my head is spinning. Never was good at math and science ...Whomp whomp whayayayaooomp.
Merrill, this reminds me of the mocumentary Spinal Tap where he says, "yeah, but this amp goes to 11! it goes one louder" Thank you for holding their feet to the fire, they need to be held accountable for their statements. Great investigative reporting! Keep up the good work. And... thank you to all those who are technical enough to find the truth!
ruclips.net/video/4xgx4k83zzc/видео.html
I totally forgot about that scene. 😆 🤣
Exactly!
Nigel turn that Manticore to 11, when you have to go over the edge. Got a new one with the tagger still on it. Amazing sustain. Go out for a bite come back it would still be ringing. No don't touch it, don't even look at it.
great analogy!!
As a retired engineering tech who worked in a sector involving beach and ground depth analysis, I thank you for this series. Best portion -NONE-YA. The brother of flim-flam gibberish😜
Just because some of us are not within the upper end budget of the Minelabs doesnt mean we pay no mind to their sales techniques. It IS our business and we thank you for poking that stick.
Thank you Susie!
I think most people could scrape up enough dough to buy a Manticore. Unless you live near a highly trafficked beach like Merrill does, it's not worth it. There's simply not all that much to find in sparsely populated places, because there was less people to drop stuff. How much would you find in Greenland or Antarctica with a Manticore. How much would you find on the Moon ? We have a saying in antiquing, 'that place is picked'. Meaning, there's nothing left there. After an area has been hit hard, the returns dwindle- unless it's a busy area like NYC beaches. A high dollar detector doesn't put more valuables in the ground. It just finds what may still be there, and the number of old places where old gold, silver, jewelry were dropped, is less and less every day, as millions of detectors keep combing the world and pulling it out of the ground. there is not an unlimited supply of relics. Merrill is in a PRIMO spot because NYC is constantly replenishing its supply of lost valuables, their population is in the millions. It's a honey hole of metal detecting. An old farm homestead where people grew up in poverty, had little or no money, isn't going to have the ground filled with silver dollars. if they lost a silver dime they cried and looked for it. they were living in survival mode. you'll find relics, you won't find money, or very, very little. farmers didn't plow the field with a pocket full of silver and gold coins.
@@tunnelportterror Im terminally ill living on $800 a month-it was a huge purchase for me to afford a Simplex+. If you really believe most people can “scrape together” enough for a $1600 machine, please feel free to scrape together that amount and drop it in my medical emergency fund 😆😆Ill run by fantasyland and pick it up😆
@@MetalDetectingNYC ruclips.net/video/sqCcIsC1b50/видео.html
@@MetalDetectingNYC ruclips.net/video/RjNb2Tj6jCs/видео.html
Thanks for thinking outside the box for us all. I've been using a Garrett 2500 since 2005 and find that the depth it puts out is very much the same as the Equinox. The only difference or issue that I have with the Garrett is that it weighs around six pounds which is extremely heavy to swing all day!!! lol I've been looking for a new detector for quite a while now and have followed all 700 of your videos to help me decide on what my next purchase would be, but $1500 verses $500 is quite a large investment for me since I'm now 63 years old and love metal detecting but just can't swing that heavy detector any longer. You have given me a tremendous amount of knowlege over the last couple of years and I most certainly appreciate that from You! Keep the videos coming even if it hurts someones feelings! Us true, Americans, are tired of throwing our hard earned money away on marketing scemes and lining the pockets on someone else just to have a little joy in what we LOVE TO DO!!! Thank you again, Merrill for your knowledge!!!
Had a GTI-2500 up until a couple of years ago. Sold it - too heavy as you stated. At nearly 70 years old now, swinging a Garrett Apex/WHP and a Deus II now. Both are less than half the weight of the GTI-2500. With rechargeable batteries, and wireless headphones linked to the pin pointer, both are light years ahead in performance and features over the GTI-2500. There are other makes that are less expensive than the Apex/WHP or even the Deus II, like the Nokta Simplex or the Nokta Legend. HH.
@@DIG_5050 I've been using the vanquish 540 for the last year and it is amazing. Runs the same basic software of the 800 nox with fewer choices but still amazing. It runs deep .Finds amazing things and has good screens. iron can be killed and it has 4 great presets for different kinds of hunts. I paid i think 435 for the best kit and have no regrets. I also now have the manticore and it too is a fantastic machine. However; if i was still budgeted like a year ago i would recommend and keep using the 540 with no complaints. it is also very light, about 2lbs plus a bit.
Thank you for raising these questions and for providing an update with Mark Lawrie's answers.
The amount of transmitted power going into the ground and amplifying the return signal using the sensitivity settings are two different things entirely. At least on all the Equinox models, the amount of power going into the ground cannot be adjusted by the user. Beach 2 does automatically regulate transmit power according to salt and iron levels encountered. The other Equinox modes have a fixed, preset amount of power that is transmitted into the ground. I am not a Manticore owner so I don't know if there is a transmit power user setting. The different sensitivity levels of 0 to 25, 28 and 35 on the original Equinox, Equinox 900 and the Manticore only apply to amplifying the return signal.
I agree with Loren Lemke. Mr Lawrie provided two very good answers to question 1 and 2 for anyone that can translate them from gibberish to something understandable. FCC regulated radiated limits of radio frequency energy from antennas and transmitters and as Mr Lawrie describes them.....low frequency reactive magnetic fields going into the ground from metal detectors are two different things. If a hobby metal detector could transmit its low frequency reactive magnetic field over long distances measured in many meters........that would start to fall into the FCC regulated radiated limits.
What I’ve found and feel
in my heart after a month of the manticore is that on the great sites I pounded with the 800 I believe the 800 did an incredible job of cleaning up the high conductor silver signals and the manticore is separating out the deep and on edge copper. 13” penny is very doable with the manticore yet I’ve not had a deep silver yet. All this being said I’ve hit 30 silver and 11 gold on the year so something is right with the manticore! Lastly the purchase of the manticore has not left me feeling let down at all, I love it and would recommend it to anyone that has the experience with minelab products and can afford it!
Totally agree! The 800 was the real deal. Hard to dispute it
I sold my NOX 800 three months after I bought my Deus II. Last April I programmed the Deus II to find silver coins. Since then I have dug 150 silver coins, and some of those coins were found where I had hunted with my NOX 800.
@@harrysurtees8710 that’s pretty wild! I’ve heard many great things about the D2 for sure but I went with the manticore and for me the transition was so easy, I was a little worried that the D2 would be to much to learn for me. Keep up the good work!
@@huntinquincy4238 Thanks quincy. I canceled my Manticore and ordered the 900 instead. I just got it today so now I have a backup that is going to be an awesome machine, I'm sure. It's my belief that the new Minelab or XP metal detectors are all great machines, and you can't go wrong. Happy hunting.
Im with you merril , 50% more power no good if you carnt use it or even control it, for eg 200mph car when speed limit on roads is 70mph . thanks for the video
The search coil is the antenna. dBm is a unit of measure which states how much radiated energy is being emitted from the antenna. In this case, the dBm measurements are made in close proximity to the search coil which allows for the measurement of its output power. Minelab is required by the FCC to disclose the radiated output power, which in this case is the same as all their other metal detectors. If they are radiating different power levels at different frequencies, then they should disclose them. Maybe you can request the dBm levels for all their individual frequencies? This is not a secret as anyone with the equipment can set a receiving antenna next to the search coil and measure the output dBm under their different frequencies.
Can you tell me what the rated power output of the Equinox 800 and the Manticore is? If you can't, then you cannot make the statement that minelab's power output is the same across their entire line of machines. Without knowing the actual difference between the power output of the Equinox & the Manticore Merrill also cannot make the claim that Minelab is lying. I think he realized that.
With induction metal detectors the search coil is a transducer, not an antenna. It does not radiate EM energy the way an antenna does so you cannot measure transmit power. But the FCC still makes us measure power emissions, which is why all metal detectors pass, even when the TX is cranked up by 50%.
the search coil is the transmitter, and the receiver antenna in one. these devices would not be difficult to soup up. but ask yourself how deep do you really want to dig. the old Whites 808d detected from 4 feet deep and beyond. do you want to dig a 4 foot hole to find something ? you'd have to own the property to do that. or be on an archeological site, and need a backhoe. the sane limits are 24" and even that is a ton of work. if the detector can hit 15"--18" that's plenty. let me make an analogy. I have an old '94 Mercedes coupe with a V12 engine, I got for $1500 not running, and fixed up. It has a top speed of 183mph. it was designed for the Autobahn. can I use that here in the USA with a 65mph speed limit. no, I can't. it's just bragging rights. going 100mph in traffic will already have surpassed the bounds of common sense. digging beyond 18" is like going over 100mph. how much further do you really want to go ?
@@tunnelportterror I still have a TM808. Only used it twice.
The next time you go to buy a car and the seller shows you the most expensive justifying the price largely because it is the most powerful of the brand, but the brand does not tell you the horsepower or characteristics of that car or of none of the other brand motors to compare and decide, don't panic. It's Minelab Marketing. Buy on a leap of faith. The consumer wants to know the transmitting power of the detectors, but is not told. It is more powerful "because I said so"
Well said
Thanks so much for doing this, as a small channel without a strong capital base it is important info to know that a used nox 800 will be a better fit for my budget when the time comes.id rather be the kid on the playground with hand me downs than to have sacrificed financially for no extra gain or just for the assumed prestige
these days it seems like many people simply take what they are told and not asking questions, thank you for asking the quesitons!
I generally assume that any marketing is BS hype
Great video Merrill. Being an old auto mechanic Minelab should have said the Manticore has more torque instead of power.
Message for Mark at minelab
Merril has 20 metal detectors
How about you send him the 15" coil for the manticore so he can test it against his Nox
It's worth it just for this vlog
TICK THE LIKE BUTTON 🍀🙂
Yeaaaaahhhhh, that's not gonna happen. I think they are hoping Merril just goes away.😂
Merrill you poked the Hornet’s Nest and provoked Mine Lab into stepping up to the podium to speak about their published claims. People invest a substantial amount of money and they do expect a level of performance equal to the quality and cost of the devices they use. Other users of Metal Detectors test and raise questions on performance issues of the devices they invest time and money in. The Metal Detector Community is passionate, dedicated and committed to educating the community of users who care deeply about the devices in the marketplace. Thanks Merrill for bringing this up and into the discussion.
Great follow up. Cant wait to speak to you more about this on the Relics Radio podcast tonight! 🎉
How do I find this????
I'm a retired electronics tech, power is measurable. I challenge Minelab to prove that there is more power going into the ground. Minelab is guilty of false/misleading advertising. They are playing with words, semantics if you will. Great work, don't cave in to a phone call from "the man".
I worked at a microwave TV transmitter receiver and antenna Corp. for years. 175 people, I supervised 6. 3 bays of assemblers, 3 shifts around clock. power is measurable
I am a retired electronics tech too and I totally agree with you.
I'm a ham radio guy. I completely agree with you as well.
I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering and the highest level ham radio license. You are entirely correct: power out can be measured and controlled!
Well I think this is a great free advertisement for mindlab regardless, do I want a manticore, well oh coarse I do 😀😀😀
This is why my grandfather reworked our two Whites 6000 Pro SL detectors. Kinda like when we would peak out our old CB radios and add on amps. This is not a big deal with a CB but is a huge problem with a metal detector. With a metal detector peaking out the device leads to issues with the coil, the processor and ground balancing. He had the equipment and experience to get it done and it still took him 5 years to balance everything out. Other than the battery consumption those old 6000's rocked in their day. This was a thing back in the early 90's.
Good job NYC
The old x70 compass takes 12 AA. Almost starts fires
@@ronpflugrath2712 right, we ended up with a battery pack on a belt! Good times as a teenager. We did the same thing with the JW Fisher Pulse 8 and the old Garrett Sea Hunter 500. We made a fiberglass and wood barge to tow behind the Jon boat with the coil embedded in the hulls for the PI machines. Looking back I think he was just keeping me busy, having fun and away from the wrong crowd. My conclusion today is it's not about the power as much as the coil and processor in the unit. Good times.
Sure that whites 6000 xl was a good machine and yes it was a deep seeking machine. I had it and found a lot of things with it.
Thanks for standing up for us detectorists Merrill and searching for the truth😊.100 hrs on my manticore so far. Pulling silvers and coppers from the sites I pounded with 800 and 15 inch coil. Pulled lots of iron at first, now I’m used to the audio and know lots of other little tricks to dig less of it.
How do you know that's stuff you have just missed ,we've been detecting a roman site for 30 + years and still find stuff in areas we've pounded
@@crazycressy7986 A field is never worked out especially if it is a ploughed field. I have fields like your roman site and I keep going back and items still turn up. 🙂. The funny thing for me is I use an old Minelab Explorer II from new in 2005 and on pasture I think it has brilliant depth but because how the machine is set I find zero iron but and this I know for a fact is my machines achillies heel is that on sites covered in iron my machines struggles to separate the good finds. 😩. This is where I think an upgrade would work on a lot of my old sites and I am actually thinking of a Minelab Equinox 800. 🙂.
@myview1875 my bro in law had one great detector ,then he went to a CTX and he found some great finds in iron infested areas and no problem seeing through the coke ,so I got one as well as my ATPRO was struggling and even worse once they spread cow muck on the fields ,he then got a 800 because of his back and I've just had a major back operation so I got a 800 6 months ago ,and boy they like the tiny little finds ,we've had some deep groats at a good 13" ,and just had 6 gold sovereigns but I was using my CTX that day ,love the 800 but you do miss the 2D screen ,ok I hit a bit more iron but I don't want to miss anything, my Roman licking dog hoard sounded like a horse shoe with a halo ,glad I dug it as it paid us £110k lol ,lots of ppl say "it's bought sites back to life" but the realty is that they are using a new detector and getting use to the sounds so they dig more ,and it's normally beginners that finds hoards ,I only use my ears ,never go by numbers ,if it beeps dig it ,if in doubt dig it out
Actual field results that prove the Manticore is the real deal! Of course, the naysayers and conspiracy theorists will continue with their nonsense
@Freedom Diggers Metal Detecting just watched one of your videos ,boy you haven't a clue and Merrill did not say the Manticore was not a good detector, he was on about the wording Minelab used to sell the Manticore, dude wake up
Shame on minelab. They think viewers are idiot. Luckily detectorist community have someone like merill , Dan and few others who study and made some research about what minelab claim on their manticore
Just to clarify a bit about power measurement … Decibels (dB) are measured using a base 10 logarithmic scale. When used for RF (radio frequency) power, the scale begins at 0dBm which is one milliwatt or .001 watts of power. The plus (+)30dBm level mentioned in the FCC specification refers to 100 times that or 1 watt. Minelab specs the Manticore power level at minus (-)30dBm which equates to 0.000001 Watts which is not even close to being relevant. I agree with Dan Blankenship in saying that lower frequencies will travel further (and deeper) than higher ones. I don’t know what the actual individual power levels for each frequency of the detector. Perhaps if they were unequal Minelab may have flattened out the curve and made them similar. Also RF power can be measured in peak power or average power. If average power is used for measuring multifrequency output, then there is opportunity for Minelab to shift things around a bit and use some creative math to justify the “more power in the ground” claim by boosting lower frequencies and attenuating the higher ones. Another factor is the isolation between the transmit and receive sides of the coil. You don’t want the receiver hearing the signal the transmitter is sending. The detector compares these two signals against each other and measures the phase difference between them to sense and determine conductivity of the target. Minelab may have made some improvements in this area to enhance the resolution at the power levels being used. Regardless, Minelab seems to have wandered into the fog a bit with their claims of more power. I would think a deep dive into their design would be necessary to prove things out which they certainly will not be willing to do publically. Bottom line … If you think you’ll like the detector, buy it and enjoy.
Scrolling through the comments to find this one. Yes! The max output power is "
Hi Merrill, Great video. I think Minelab’s response to the 50% power increase was a complete word salad. I’ll hold off on my purchase and continue research and watching your videos. Thanks for providing excellent content.😊
honestly...I'd buy the Deus. Value winner is Legend. the sounds the Manticore makes when it hits a find, get annoying. I had a brand new Whites MXT and sold it in a week, it honked loudly like a pissed off goose when it hit metal. I thought, no way I'm listening to that sound all day. gee why not just fingernails on a chalk board already.
I love your spaceballs reference. Good job on the video. You did a better job than most journalists today.
Interesting discussion. What maybe a point here is that although the FCC has a limit of 1 watt or 30 dbm, that does not mean every metal detector is using that maximum. It merely means one cannot exceed that limit. Therefore the real question is how much of that FCC limit is being used by the Manticore compared to the older 600 and 800 Equinox models (and other metal detectors).
I think determining what the power level is at various frequencies is where to make the fairest comparison. Example: if the 800 uses x amount of power for Y frequency how does that compare to what the Manitore uses? This to me is how to decide if there really is more power going into the ground with the Manticore.
The 1 watt FCC limit is for certain class of radios, not detectors.
My friend ,all in all the ground is the equalizer,great video thanks again,keep up the good work,also keep digging,thank you.
Merrill, we would love to see you bury some targets in the wet beach sand and take the manticore, the 900, and compare it to the 800 to see if its worth upgrading....if its only an inch more depth it doesn't seem feasible to upgrade.
The word power seems tobe a powerful marketing tool...i think a more truthful claim would be 50% better efficiency. Looking forward to seeing this machine working in all types of environments and see the depth it can pull tagets. Thanks again Merril. Good luck hunting.
Just watched the video. What an excellent analysis of the Manticore sales pitch! Thanks, Merrill! "You da' man!"
As a ham operator with an Extra Class license, we do a lot of stuff with dB's.
With reference to the dBm scale, Google "dBm" and go to Wikipedia. There you will find a very complete table of dBm values = watts. Specifically from the table, (−30 dBm 1.0 μW = 1000 nW ). The -30 dBm is the FCC limit of RF power for metal detectors as I understand it. Many times in general commentary and literature we see metal detector limit of RF power at the coil is 1.00 watt. I find this to be quite a discrepancy compared to what the FCC actually allows.
Further, I will assume the FCC limiting requirement would apply to EACH frequency transmitted. Considering Manticore's added frequency of 2.4 kHz, I agree this would mean more (50% ??) added "power to the coil" as MineLab claims, but not necessarily to the ground.
Loved the "none ya"!
If anything, MineLab taught their competition of what not to do when it comes to marketing. People will take these companies to task.
Good job, Merrill. That should make Minelab happy. My biggest gripe with them is not the technology in their detectors but the roll-out of their detectors. The roll-out of the Manticore (which is still going on, btw) was just awful. Then they stuck the new Equinoxes right in the middle of the roll-out and really screwed things up. I'm sure they had their reasons but the silence when many people have already paid a dealer is unfathomable. I will NEVER buy another Minelab product that isn't available for IMMEDIATE shipment.
Hi Merril, love this video.. However... going back to the shot of the safety manual that showed the power output. Did you happen to also notice the operating frequencies listed!?? Manticore 2.5 - 143kHz, Equinox 3.7 - 143kHz !? The published operating Frequencies are 5 - 40kHz for the Manticore and EQ, where is the rest of the detecting frequency range?? Seems kinda odd they make a machine with that capability and only utilize roughly 28% of the operating range... Just another observation.
Merrill as a teacher one of the most important things is to summarize the learnings. I’m confused on Minelabs responses and whether they are accurate or not. I had difficulty in following some of MineLabs responses. Possibly do a follow up to this video on summarizing what we learned?
Amen!!!
Thank you for not selling out! I have my 900 getting delivered tomorrow. Lmk if you want it.
I think Minelab did a good job answering the first 2 questions, but their answer to the 3rd question feels intentionally vague again. Was hoping for some real engineering and science in the answer, but reads like a heavily sanitized PR response. Still, I don't think they are lying, I just hoped they would have dove much deeper into the answer. But I get it, they want to protect the secret sauce. Props to you Merrill for handling everything so well and with integrity.
I agree, and I understand. I don;t need to know the secret sauce, I just need to know if it makes my sandwich yummy.
@@bn7451 I am still waiting for my Manticore sandwich to arrive here in Finland. Can't wait to sink my teeth into it.
I agree. They cannot go into much detail without revealing their intellectual property, which they would not do. It is a tough job to sell you a great detector and then come back 3 years later with another one that goes 1/2" deeper in certain conditions and charge you another $1500. It is a tough sell.
I disagree. I think they are lying and you can tell by Marks body language that he is uncomfortable talking about it. Either that or he is very poor PR person to the point that he gets almost agitated when pushed on certain question/answers.
@@dusantomic9983 That doesn't qualify as evidence of much of anything to me. Especially in regards to a scientific claim.
You did the right thing letting Minelab respond. I have to say I’m more confused now though than I was.
I am pretty much a noob to detecting about a year and a half with an AT max and just got a nox 900 and hunting the same ground has produced more silver coins than in those 1.5 years with the max. A park near me I grided 2 directions in custom then a final sweep in all metal mode I got coins but no silvers. Sweeping the same spot with the 900 the target separation ability began to shine I started to pop silver. I had to start clearing out the bad targets in that patch to open up more ground but, so far 12 silver canadian dimes and 3 quaters. To be fair I think the cobwebs will have to be wiped off the max and get a chance at redemption on the same patch but, seems like night and day at separation so far (had the 900 for 2 weeks now and about 18 - 20 silver coins with it all on previously AT MAX hunted ground) another park I thought I cleared out all the high tones with the max and gave it the 900 treatment and ended up with 89 more pennies and 2 more silver dimes in one day. My take so far is it sucks the bigger coil for the equinox is not cheaper lol. Is there a way to set the nox or AT max for just deep silver? because so far I don't think any of those silvers in that patch have been deeper than 8-9 inches with the nox. I think it's possible there might be a yet deeper older layer under those 1960 and 1950 coins one of the deepest dimes was 1907 the rest was 1943- 1957.
I think if you go on a very low frequency you should go deep for silver
Merrill I think what you showed is what I call double talk. I saw the original video you produced and I think you have every right to question Minelab. I have only detected for about 5 years so I’m far from an expert. I do know many Equinox users in the club I’m part of stepped up to the Deus2 and left me in the dirt. The idea that you have to run you coil over it to detect it has changed. If you put a quart on the ground and run the Equinox coil laying the ground towards it you will pick it up maybe one inch away. My Deus 2 starts signaling maybe three inches away. That is important when your on the beach trying to grid an area. Thanks for your explanation and great work.
Merrill...you showed great decorum in dealing with this Minelab situation and if this is how you conduct your classroom I'd be proud to be your student....mind you at my old age I'd be a major distraction (77) ... Keep up with the no BS detecting
Power is measured in WATTS, not what was stated which involves frequency only. KHZ has nothing at all to do with RF power coming out of the coil.
New video , question and answers, all well handle by both party. I have the 800, awaiting for the Manticore. Marsh and mud is my detecting site. I upgraded to give me all chances to find more clues, about the extend of the Acadian dike, still visible, and more clues for the charting of the Acadian village, burned in 1755. Every inches count. Thank you for the review you make. And you represent well the detectection hobby world. I appreciated your review, and detection adventures.
Minelab did come clean on depth. 👌 Look up Whites 808d on RUclips. That's real power, 4 feet down and beyond. Now you know why USA had to defend England & Australia from Japan during WW2.
I happen to be watching this video today because in a few days I will begin testing the Manticore under exasperated conditions in my area.
After more than 11 years of using Ctx, an instrument I have not abandoned in favor of Eqx in spite of less detection depth.
What the vast majority of Ctx owners expect, myself included, is to find the stability of IDs in the presence of valuable targets.The fact that to someone a coin is as interesting as or more than a diamond ring matters little.
What matters is that after spending almost $2,000 on the full complement of accessories, the instrument responds efficiently.
It will be a tough battle to retire Ctx, and for now I simply say: we shall see.
I can only compliment you Merrill, like all your content, the tone of the information you disseminate is free from influence of any kind.Excellent!
Keep it coming, Merrill.
1 watt is still one watt. The performance increase is caused by the lower frequency and improved processor POWER. The real energy going into the ground is still regulated by the FCC. Bottom line here is more power should have been labeled More Processor Power.
But if the receiver had more power it mite increase depth a tiny bit the receiver isn’t regulated
@@UNDERGROUNDCALLING0161 Receiver has the better processors and that I already mentioned the signal goes to the processors that is where the improvement lies. More power to the receiver makes a noisy detector...
@@davidlewis9068 yeah it uses better processor algorithms and Probibly more volts in the chip to process the hotter signal it’s getting from the receiver that is using 50 percent more volts into the ground. Like you said chattery ..... but without that discrimination algorithm it is probably much worse. So really it could be putting 50 percent more power into the ground in the receiver end. AND have the new algorithm as stated.
There is an easy indirect way to prove power output by measuring power input. Find a way to measure battery current while the unit is under test. I used a sensitive hall effect clamp on DC Ammeter. Also, find a way to measure battery voltage while the unit is under test. Power (Watts) is Volts times Amps. Measure both the voltage and current under normal operation. Then, measure the voltage and current after disconnecting the coil. Calculate both wattages and subtract them from each other. My White's PulseScan SL was 10.81v and 394 mA with coil connected. Disconnected, I had 10.92v and 65 mA. Difference is 3.55 watts that my coil was drawing. Remember, this is power in. Radiated power out from the coil will be less as nothing is 100% efficient. Using the above would allow you to see the effects of selecting different frequencies, profiles, and comparing detectors to each other, as well as comparing the same models to each other to see if you have a weak one.
The transmitter power "is regulated". Getting more of that power into the ground was the trick. They had to redesign the electronics, battery supply and the coil to reduce parasitic losses in the detector itself. I'm also sure they did the same on the receiver side of the detector, making the detector able to pick up the weaker returns. The problem is Minelab does not want the competition to know exactly how they did it and therefor the vague responses on their claims. I will say this, in the US many companies get away with these types of false claims, but I guarantee you that is not true in the EU or Australia. Many companies have been sued and fined, even shut down, for such claims and Minelab and their legal team are well aware of that.
I dont think so! Double the sending power result in 64 times more signal, and. Over 4000 times more battery consuming its called the 6th power LAW. Its bogus! And i am a minelab user. Have 4 of them. And over 42 years... i am dissapointed in the company telling lies! And... here in Holland its €2000,- and its stil a disposable machine.
@@scoopingdutchman4325 It's apparent you have no grasp on frequency modulation or coil induction and I have 12 years of hands on. So, before you attack you need to cool your jets and do some real research. Just changing the coil wire diameter or wire configuration can increase the output of the coil without increasing the input power.
@@vernowen2083 i already know that. A bigger coil ( bigger sending and receiving spiral) means more cubic inches under the bigger coil.. and yes they go also a little bit deeper. But, it means also that you increase the signals coming in the control box. And there is the problem.. you have to put your sensitivity down of mineralisation . I am only searching on beaches. And ,, as far as you want to speak from a attack? And cooling my jets down? I havent even starting them! I rever at the video with the minelab man.. he was talking about 50% more power?
No not output power.. it is the secret sauce! I heard that Many times before, and that is what i mean with BOGUS! . Lets see if i ever met someone with a manticore compare with my sovereign or excalibur . Yes manticore is faster and new! But Who is deeper? And i am not talking about millimeters. The manticore is a €2000,- machine and still disposable!
What about after the 3 year of warranty. I had plenty of problems with my disposable €1000 nox. I am off.. after all those years. And i have everything written with respect for you, and for minelab. I hope they wake up! .. so,, don’t be to sensitive! regards scooping dutchman.
I guess I'm going to get me a hair dryer at least it has three settings😃 Hey does anybody out there have a way of setting up a machine and actually testing the output I'm sure one of your followers can actually measure that. It be very interesting that the manticore puts out 50% more than its supposed to then the FCC allows Would they have to recall the All their machines because it's not within the guidelines. I like to see somebody do that test what do you think that would be really interesting😜
The problem seems to be the fuzziness of marketing in interpreting precise engineering definitions.
As an engineer, I do not see how "more power can be put into the ground" if they are observing the FCC Part 15 rules. Putting more computing power on a device, changing the antenna configuration, increasing battery capacity, etc., does not "put more power into the ground" if they maintain the FCC limit. There are some very clear definitions that are being waltzed around, here, for the purpose of selling products.
I have long contended the role of marketing everywhere is to quibble. As a West Point Graduate, that was defined to me as lying. But the American public seems to have accepted quibbling as something different than lying.
Thank you for clearing this up for detector users.
Great video and great job getting to the bottom of it!👍 Well, larger magnetic field would definitely explain the increased nail falsing issues. My experience with the 800 is the hotter you run, the more falsing and you just have to work with that by pulling back on sensitivity. I’m sure people were hoping for better as I was. Maybe the next generation machines will be able to handle it better or maybe there will be an update that will help. Could just be that you need a sniper coil as I do with the 800 on those sites. I guess if nail infested sites are your bread and butter and you were hoping for much better then maybe for the $, the 900 would be more appropriate.
What coil is it about for the more powerful nox 800?
What coil is it about for the more powerful nox 800?
Nice job on this vid Merrill, I appreciate the insight you've given us/me. Looking forward for more info on the Manticore. Take care and find lots of treasures 👍😎
Would be nice to hear the other metal detector company's chime in on this topic.
Thanks Merrill for advocating the truth representing all your fellow detectorist , especially minelab users like myself. I will be upgrading from a 600 to a 700.Keep your logical and entertaining videos coming !
This post got so interesting. Thanks!! My take away from all this is. The DB spec applies to the bluetooth which is in the MHz range. It does not apply to the VLF range (4 to 100KHz) comming out of the coil. The VLF most likely has far lower power output then the bluetooth. I first thought that the All-Terrain High conductor was just using more battery power because it used more processing power. Now I am betting that this mode is sending more power into the ground. It is amazing how secertive that Minelab is about the level of power comming out of the coil. Battery life and weight is such a critical part of the end users acceptance of the detector. Again very interesting thanks.
THANK YOU AGAIN Merrill for following through and the honesty. It is very refreshing.
Ok Merrill, Great Video, Hmmmm. Now wonder why nobody has mention this and if they have sorry. The Fcc regulates the power out put on all Electronics. BUT some folks take CB radios down to certain shops, and power up. Wonder if that can be done to a detector too and what would happen. 🤔
From other reading I've done about doing something like this, you would create more problems. Too much power in the ground can cause falsing because of the iron and other ferrous material being energized more.
Thank you for your always honest and down-to-earth reviews.
Besides the algorithm the only place they can play with the power and not change the transmitter is in the coil(aka antenna) since that can change the power without changing the transmitted power.
I looked into that because I thought the same thing. The ratings state less than 30 dbm which is rf power. Dbi is the antenna gain.
@@justins3810 I know it’s really the only way to mess with power without changing the RF output.
In my video tomorrow , we compare the Equinox to the Manticore with an air test and then we use a milliGAUSS meter to measure the signal distance from the coils . The Equinox measured 2.5 (mG) at 26 inches and the Manticore measured 2.5 (mG) at 30 inches . From my tests the Manticore does have a stronger signal strength .
It should do at $1000 more in price. Thanks for letting us all know. No need to watch the video now.
@@RustyRecovery Seeing is believing ! We also test a bunch of gold and some silver .
Another great video Merrill compulsive viewing! Thanks again.
Thank you Merrill for GREAT Videos and standing up for what is right. Also I’m waiting on my Manticare to come in from Kellyco.
I love the hard work you have done trying to resolve the power issue discussion though IMO - I would want to see a sample of the magnetic fields being emitted from both the Manticore and the former Equinox. As explained by Mark in other videos the Manticore emits 50% more magnetic field and Minelab equates that to power or at least that is how I perceived it. I know my Sovereign and my Sovereign GT had a really tight magnetic field meaning the linear boundary was smaller than the coil size vs the Equinox which reaches out beyond the coil size. Keep up the great work!
Minelab's opportunity was missed IMHO. They would have done better, say building a non-wired coil, lightweight 900 ..... a Minelab version of the XP Deus if you would. I'd buy that, but until then, my Deus 2 is fine.
@@christianh7863 Right. I don't water hunt, I relic hunt. But if I did water hunt, I could set my deus up in about 3 minutes.
@@christianh7863 Not my experience for the last 6 years with my D1 and D2. Flawless charging, coil goes at least 12 hours unless you run lower KH.
Well done Merrill. Whether it's concealing guarded company secrets, or marketing play on words, Minelab still is not objectively proving their claims. For whatever the reason, they still sound weaselly overall. Think I'll wait for the live results from your future videos to really decide their reluctance to be totally transparent. Or, the Manticore 2 that will put 100% more power into the ground. Thanks for your efforts.
I think what he said in response to question 2 is that all the metal detectors are limited to radiate (emit) no more than
Enjoyed this and the hilarious original video. Worth remembering that extra 'power into the ground' can be obtained by tiny changes to coil design, material choices and these are added together. It comes down to modelling and prototyping.
What about the 540 Vanquish?; that's what I'm thinking about. Pro Pack. Good video.
KUDOS! I do have to say that, for sure. I have and use the CTX and have for years now. The one reason that I own it is due to the fact that when it came out it impressed me. Everything that it can do along with actually finding metal targets in the ground. Have come across others in the field and they say, 'You still swinging that old thing?' (They are usually swinging the Nox. My answer to them, 'Yes I am.' It still impresses me that it can do all of what it does do. Not an easy, turn-on-and-go machine. Owned 2 different Minelab machines before it. This one impressed me so much that I had to have it.
To the people swinging the Nox...I still haven't been impressed with anything that it can do over the CTX....other than the weight is a big difference.
To me, the flip side of the same coin is the Manticore, the CTX without all the other things that it can do...wrapped up in a Deus sized package. (Even kind of looks a little like the Deus)
And BTW I do own the original Deus and would like to own the Deus 2. That said. The only reason I own the one I do is that it has impressed me with what it can do. And there are so many and I mean soooooo many tweaks you can do (with at least the first model but don't know about the second) to change the detector to make it fit the environment you are trying to detect. There are so many variables when it comes to metal detecting and outside noise, mineralization, I could make a very long list. Some places seem almost undetectable due to the iron that is in the ground, or outside interference (power lines, above ground or below) so many factors.
What all of it comes down to, is what you learn and feel dies the best job for you. Use it. I live both my CTX and Deus. Both have their spots and both have their weaknesses. Just as any detector.
Got to love you got the attention of the personnel at Minelab. One thing about all that has been mentioned is that most people don't care about the hype, power, or anything else. It comes down to one thing for them....will it find goodies with ease. And if it doesn't then why buy it. Turn on and go is what most want...without tweaking anything. If you like to fiddle with things to get the most out of your detector. Then get the CTX or the Deus. If tou dont like all the buttons or just want to find stuff, then get a turn on and go type detector. As easy as that.
I like all the nitty-gritty so keep it up.
Well done!
I have owned the Equinox 600. I have no other machine experience to base it on but I have found some incredible treasures. I purchased the Manticore for fun and it will take me many hours to learn it to my level with the EQUI. My question does relate to Minelab's claim of "More Power". Page 17 of the manual states, Mode - All Terrain- High Conductors (This is a high powered search mode that will reduce battery runtime by approximately one hour) WHY?
I live in central NY. We too are bottle cap, pull tab and nail trash heaven. I respect the time you've invested to the hobby. Thank you.
So I see this as a play on words to sell newer detectors. Sort of turns me off from Mineab. I'm glad I went with the Legend for one third the price.
I compared a target that was a small Sterling british threepence with the eqnox 800 and Manticore at 8 inches. and the Manticore was giving a loud string signal and the eqnox was struggling to get a reading. The eqnox had,the minelab 15 inch coil on.
Wow. Thank You for this. I think my favorite pull from this was your line,,,The art of metal detecting . Man you are a true champion to this wonderful hobby,,,
you are the man! love the honesty .im guessing youll like deus 2 over manitcore?
I think the < -30dBm is just a catch all for Minelab to conform to the FCC, the less than (
that's exactly what it is, why cant others see it!!!!!
All said and done I'll be purchasing another Minelab. I still believe that Minelab with the 700, 900 and the Manticore, three out of five best detectors many can buy. The other two being the Legend & Dues 2.
Did some FCC research. Found all of Minelab's device's FCC compliance reports. The
Hell of a video Merrill !!! Always appreciate your input!! Thank you Sir! 👍👍👍👍👍
Awesome video Merrill, thank you
Good on ya Merril
So basically, I can pay another $1000 and get just over an inch depth than the Legend perhaps? I already hit as deep as I want to dig with my Legend now. Thanks but no thanks. Great in depth video Merrill.
FCC is sensitive to RF not frequencies under 50 kHz and even into the audio range. You can double the 4khz power for example and not be an issue in RF. And if you double power in these audio frequencies you will get higher amplitude returns from targets. OBN uses a little voice coil like from old telephones to actually hear the detector tx signal. Try this Equinox vs Manticore - maybe you can hear an improvement in distance?
Merrill, if you start a Patreon account, I would definitely contribute. I am sure that there are others who would, as well. That could be a nice stepping stone to create content for us, full time. Who’s in, thumbs up or reply below.
When I see someone nodding their head in the affirmative when they are talking, it reminds me of that being used as a sales technique!
You are going viral again, thanks for sharing, I love it. I am happy with my Deus 2, I like that you get the answers and your editing skills are great.
Love all your videos buddy. Thank you for your candor. I think it would be great if you can come together with that other group of 3 gentlemen that have argued differently. A peaceful coming together of the minds is always a great thing. More power to you buddy. Will always be on your side and support your channel.
Googling "difference between radiofrequency and electromagnetic frequency" seems to indicate there is a difference between the two. Apparently the electromagnetic frequencies metal detectors utilize fall well below the threshold that the FCC monitors on higher frequency radio waves. So saying all their metal detectors fall below the max threshold the FCC monitors makes sense. So how strongly a detector projects that electromagnetic field into the ground is based on something else, as mentioned in the video the technology put into it channeling more juice into the field.
The Minelab representative mentions in passing that the Manticore battery has a greater capacity than the Equinox battery, and that Minelab chose to use this additional capacity to increase the transmission power. Does anyone have the actual mAh figures for the Manticore and Equinox batteries to verify this claim?
Great follow up video. They have now given you a truly testable claim, if the right person with the electronics skills can step up ... 50% more electrical power sent to the coil.
Hi Merrill. I've been using my Manti for 3 days now at the beach. I used an 800 for 4 years previously. So far I have pulled 2 small 10K gold items (pendant, small chain bracelet) at a depth that I don't believe my 800 would have hit.
That’s great to hear! I’m hoping to see more stories like this.
That's great, but I missed the part where Minelab proved that they were putting 50% more power into the ground🤷🏼♂️
Bring both detectors and when you get a signal with the Manticore, check with the Equinox. That's the only way to have some non-subjective evidence.
@@DavidLevine exactly
@@DavidLevine he could do that 100 times with the Manticore coming out on top and people would still doubt that Minelab is telling the truth.
Soooo.... At one point mark stated that they put a bigger battery in the manticore... Could that be the " 50 % more power " he is referring to ??? If so.... What a spin on specs.... I personally think the manticore was a complete hype show.... And it's performance does not rival any of its competitors... I'm a very simple man and I think I'll stick to my simplex....
very very well done, sir
A battery can NOT give you more power. Larger batteries only give you more run time.
Superb video as always Merrill 👏🏻
Stay well and be lucky out there 🤞🏻🍻
Excellent Reply
@@christianh7863 This is an excellent point. I'm curious what type of battery is in the Manticore and what it's specs are.
@@stinkasscat lithium?
Likely some type of Lithium based chemistry.
So all this is new to me. But I thank you for all the knowledge I have been gaining.
I wonder if it’s like dc voltage. 12v is 12v but there is different strengths of 12v. Well I’m not sure but I do know the detector are getting better every year.
Thanks for the videos
The difference I believe you are talking about is the amperage that is being put out with the 12 volts.
What a great video explaning and helping us understand the marketing jargon. I still want the Minelab Manticore though, and I think it is the best, most capable coin detector on the market at this time. I love watching your videos, especially now that it is the dead of winter here in Utah and we can't get out to detect.
Deus2.????
I've got the 600 and the new 700. No difference in depth, no difference in separation, But I do like the VDI to 99 and the new deep tone. That really helps narrow down targets more specifically. Great Video! It will be interesting to see future response from Minelab.
You don't think the 700 is a little more sensitive?
@@paulmartin3946 I really haven’t noticed it in my soil but it’s a killer on the beach! 👍
If there isn’t a difference I feel they should have just thrown the 2D map on the 700 & 900 and presented it that way. Would have probably had more sales at more reasonable prices for consumers.
@@HighTones l have a 900, it seems to be a bit more sensitive than the 600 l had previously. Better build quality for sure!
@@paulmartin3946 the 900 goes to 28 sensitivity the 600 and 700 are still 25. Which higher sensitivity would give a slight edge over the 600 and 700 in good ground conditions. The 700 is built exactly as the 900. Have you used the 700?
Smatch the Like button! well done Merrill! Nailed it very well!
Merrill, I know you like the Nox 800, and for a long time that is all that I saw you swing. I got one because a lot of the RUclipsrs were using them. I will say this, my best finds came from a Garrett AT Max. The depth is just about the same as the Nox 800, but I find that the Garrett sound is easier to tell the good from the junk. I was thinking about the Manticore or the XP Deus 2. At this time I am leaning more to the Duce because of the weight, and the depth in the water. THANKS MERRILL FOR THE VIDEOS THEY CAME AT THE RIGHT TIME FOR ME!
Thank you Robert
Simple answer to question 2 is that the magnetic field coil puts into the ground is not regulated by FCC...is not considered to be radio transmission so therefore may actually be 50% more than NOX 800 just as they stated...it is not regulated by FCC.
But it is rf energy and it has a maximum set by the FCC. Dbi is the antenna gain and they made no mention of that, just the dbm which is the transmitted power.
Try approaching the question of stated emitted power by experimentation. Under a control measure the actual power of the emitted magnetic field at different distances (lengths), and then compare contrast it to other detectors in your collection at a given frequency, i.e. *00 v
Manticore (with same loop size, full battery, etc) - The strength of the magnetic field emitted by the Manticore is expressed in units of Tesla (T), microtesla (µT), Gauss (G) or milligauss (mG) (1 G is equivalent to 10-4 T (or 1 mG = 0.1µT) and may be measured using a gauss meter. You may even be able to use an app on your phone designed to use the built in magnetometer to see the relative change in the numbers it produces. While the output values will not be exact due to many variables, you will still be able to see a relative difference in different detectors. Experiment and if you have questions or would like me to do a video demo for you then I will be happy to help, but always best to make your own attempt first with the clues and suggestions I have given you. Cheers.
Nice Video, Thank You Merrill
keep up the good work!! I will say that i have now gone over some places that i have pounded with my nox and found 50% more items so maybe that is what they meant haha :) either way keep up the good work. 😁
Thanks for your work !