A great analytival video. I'm not the only one who thought that Narkina 5 basically resembled the future dream of an Amazon Warehouse workplace as imagined by Jeff Bezos, right? Even the orange and white prison uniforms reminds me of Amazon. I think that visual familiarity also played a role as to why people were so disturbed by Narkina 5.
I discovered this channel a month or two back, and I have come to appreciate it. Twenty years ago in college I had the classics and post modern lit professors with their ongoing debates, and yes I did learn a lot. But science fiction was dismissed as this light adventure content, and dismissed as having any intellectual integrity. It's nice to find a channel that can connect what the sci-fi fanbase finds in it so intelligently. Thank you.
Did you find any mention of Jean Moulin, the french resistant who coordinates resistance networks in France during german occupation, being an influence for the characters of Luthen during your research?They seems to have the same role of convicing different faction with opposite political goals to act in common, and J.Moulin used to own an art gallery as a cover :)
I saw a lot of parallels with the Algerian independence struggle against France, maybe even some direct cinematic quotes from Pontecorvo's cinema-réalité Battle of Algiers.
Perfect example of a diverse group of people, made same through routine; the symbolic diversity the Bourgeoise loves to advertise, without any freedom for the actually very diverse Working Class.
Really good analysis of how the society becomes the main prison of the mind. Take that principle of peer pressure has taken Asian people to the infamous 996 work/study schedule... 9 am to 9 pm, 6 days a week.
peer pressure is the keystone of control, keep a couple of influencers (not the dudes on tiktok, but something similar) and use them as reference to mold the others in a herd, the smartpants student that allways sits on the front row and gets extra credits for being the right kid, the fashion model that would be miss Auschwitz 1944 without the makeup, to press girls into starvation, and we humans are dumb enough to fall for that, something that makes me hope the Anthropocene Mass Extinction takes huamity off...
Sorry, I couldn't help but think of one of my favorite movies: The Working Class Goes to Heaven, by Elio Petri. In particular, the scene in which the protagonist goes to visit his old colleague "the Militina".
Just watched the Clone Wars episodes with the slavers. That mine / reeducation camp place... It has some striking similarities to the prison in Andor. Too much that I think it was accidental. Just struck me and wanted to share. PS: Spoiler: At the end, the facility administrator says to Obi-wan, "You are a Jedi, and will not kill an unarmed man." Rex speaks up "I'm not a Jedi", and kills him
Maybe a bit off-topic, but... 6:03 If it is based on Stalin's time in the Gulag, should we assume that if Cassian Andor had made different choices in Rogue One, survived, and ended up in power, he would have used prisons like the one of Narkina 5 to an even greater extend than the Galactic Empire did? (My impression of the show so far is that it indeed argues that everyone and everything should be sacrificed for the revolution if necessary. Which is btw opposite to the argument that Return of the Jedi makes.)
He has to protect the revolution from all those evil counter-revolutionaries... Any sort of revolution favors authoritarians. The tumult itself creates conditions which push people that way. That's a huge reason I'm liberal instead of leftist. Revolution sucks, and incremental progress is possible
@@DamienWalter That'd be an excellent plot. The conflict between Mon Mothma's democratic idealism and a kind of violent nihilism of people like Luthen and Saw Gerrera
Echoes of themes from Metropolis too I imagine come to mind. It’s interesting that in Japanese offices - I’ve heard anecdotally - that it’s not so much the hard work that’s important to still be doing at the end of the day so much as the appearance of still being present there in the office out of loyalty to the company, the latest to leave being the most loyal of course as far as the bosses are concerned. At least I assume that’s what’s going on in the salarymen’s and office ladies minds, their own assumptions. Probably a continuation of their regimented and systematic educational experiences. Certain expectations must filter into their consciousness with regard to the working life.
What disturbed me was how easily the inmates were tricked/motivated into believing the work gave them a future - i.e. release. Trick someone into believing the stone you are dangling is a carrot and you can make them do anything.
Possibly the most unrealistic part of the depiction was the guards having blasters. Prisons in real life do not have guns in order to prevent exactly what we see in the show. Also, those nutrition lines have to be filthy.
Oh I need to rewatch now. I didn't REALLY put a real world source to it, but... Now that you say Lenin/Stalin, I realize I was kinda thinking Lawrence Of Arabia.
Damn, yes, this is why I subscribe. A straight up Marxist analysis of the best Star Wars has to offer. Based! I came into Andor with low expectations, more Joseph W. Campbell for kids. I ended up moved and anticipating the next season. It's the best thing since the first couple seasons of Westworld, or Far Cry 5 (to see why, this 12 minutes will explain: ruclips.net/video/UHKuJ4q_1L0/видео.html)
@@DamienWalter so unionising, strikes and such? They have won great progress in the past and no doubt will do so again. But they still operate within the confines of what our bosses dictate. Maybe making it all more tolerable is the best we can do?
@@nerdmeister9786 @nerdmeister9786 The more serious answer. There are healthy and unhealthy hierarchies. Foucault is a little too extreme in critique.
So Andor is Stalin? Wow, that wrecks the entire show for me. Marxism is so much BS. Marx never had a job nor worked an honest day in his life. The things he spoke of about work were things he knew nothing about. He was a do nothing twat.
Superb stuff. I truly adore your open ended questions, the poking and the prodding. I think Foucault should be required reading, not least to critically engage with him. There's an inherent darkness in his view of the world that I think more earnest philosophers can't quite grasp. I think you can certainly say Marxist frameworks might well limit the space for investigation, but I think they provide a better basis for interrogating the nature of our modern world than any other, even if they leave out plenty. It'd be great to hear you on Cassian's whole journey through to the end of Rogue One more fully, perhaps when Andor is all wrapped up. I'm still debating with myself whether you have taken this sponsorship tongue in cheek. Kino Loy would benefit from their services, not to question whether the whole edifice should come crashing down, but how he might be able to sustain and continue participating in the system that's actively harming him.
Great vid. Tho I don't get the random jab at liberals or public education... Afaik, they're allies to w.e minority faces injustices, at work or on the streets. That also means they've had decent public education that's helped them stay moral despite facing very real harm by standing with the scapegoats. Perhaps they're also in decent enough jobs to be able to strike or at least protest after work without worry of food or rent -.-
@@DamienWalter that doesn't sound like the liberals of this century. More like the conservatives who yell about supporting veterans and mental health, but only ever vote against funding vet or healthcare. Plus US liberals at least, want gov oversight on business so consumers can be educated to what's hidden in their products. Like the weakened prop 65 that at least says there's SOMETHING ~ hidden off the ingredients list in your tofu, but not always what and never how much :D
Evil eye of Sauron, big brother, or Jesus. Watching my acts and thoughts so I had better regulate them and conform myself or else…. Evil? Yeah, they all are.
Star Wars for Grown ups is incredibly boring as hell. When Star Wars was for kids it was fun we had swashbuckling adventures, escapism, and the messages were easy to digest without feeling like you're being preached too. Now we stand around and talk about our feelings. We have to deconstruct the Rebels to show how gritty and villainous they can be. Who knew the Rebellion origins would be so boring. If this show didn't have Star Wars in the title, we wouldn't watch it.😮
@DamienWalter based analysis of Andor, and great video! As someone who's been studying Marxism Leninsm for a while, I greatly enjoyed Andor, even if a lot of it kinda smells of adventurism in some respects.
A great analytival video.
I'm not the only one who thought that Narkina 5 basically resembled the future dream of an Amazon Warehouse workplace as imagined by Jeff Bezos, right? Even the orange and white prison uniforms reminds me of Amazon. I think that visual familiarity also played a role as to why people were so disturbed by Narkina 5.
Imagine working in such a facility and the smirky amazon-smile looking down on you while your working...thats nightmare fuel.
When Cassian formed a union he was able to change his material conditions. Shame that didn't rub off on more viewers.
Yup.
hey comrade!!!
@@saadcringe lal salaam!
I discovered this channel a month or two back, and I have come to appreciate it. Twenty years ago in college I had the classics and post modern lit professors with their ongoing debates, and yes I did learn a lot. But science fiction was dismissed as this light adventure content, and dismissed as having any intellectual integrity. It's nice to find a channel that can connect what the sci-fi fanbase finds in it so intelligently. Thank you.
The social networks are panopticons where we fear when other inmates watch us: where we are all prisioners and guards at the same time.
This is such a true statement.
This is exactly the purpose of social media.
Best backing track you could have ever chosen for this essay.
Absolute chefskiss for sure
yep
Great job of illustrating the philosophy, connecting it to the show and to everyday life.
Freaking perfect how it became clear it was Hotel California right around “this is real terror “ Cheers!
Did you find any mention of Jean Moulin, the french resistant who coordinates resistance networks in France during german occupation, being an influence for the characters of Luthen during your research?They seems to have the same role of convicing different faction with opposite political goals to act in common, and J.Moulin used to own an art gallery as a cover :)
I saw a lot of parallels with the Algerian independence struggle against France, maybe even some direct cinematic quotes from Pontecorvo's cinema-réalité Battle of Algiers.
Perfect example of a diverse group of people, made same through routine; the symbolic diversity the Bourgeoise loves to advertise, without any freedom for the actually very diverse Working Class.
Really good analysis of how the society becomes the main prison of the mind. Take that principle of peer pressure has taken Asian people to the infamous 996 work/study schedule... 9 am to 9 pm, 6 days a week.
peer pressure is the keystone of control, keep a couple of influencers (not the dudes on tiktok, but something similar) and use them as reference to mold the others in a herd, the smartpants student that allways sits on the front row and gets extra credits for being the right kid, the fashion model that would be miss Auschwitz 1944 without the makeup, to press girls into starvation, and we humans are dumb enough to fall for that, something that makes me hope the Anthropocene Mass Extinction takes huamity off...
I can't not think of Bentham's autoicon at the mention of his name (for those that don't know, he's had himself preserved and is on display at UCL).
Yes. It really symbolises what a creepy institution UCL is.
Sorry, I couldn't help but think of one of my favorite movies: The Working Class Goes to Heaven, by Elio Petri. In particular, the scene in which the protagonist goes to visit his old colleague "the Militina".
Wow! Just Wow! Andor is amazing, and so is this analysis. Wow!
Just watched the Clone Wars episodes with the slavers. That mine / reeducation camp place... It has some striking similarities to the prison in Andor. Too much that I think it was accidental.
Just struck me and wanted to share.
PS: Spoiler:
At the end, the facility administrator says to Obi-wan, "You are a Jedi, and will not kill an unarmed man." Rex speaks up "I'm not a Jedi", and kills him
Another scary video. I have to wonder, if humans have the capacity to ever truly be free or will power always destroy us...
Maybe a bit off-topic, but...
6:03 If it is based on Stalin's time in the Gulag, should we assume that if Cassian Andor had made different choices in Rogue One, survived, and ended up in power, he would have used prisons like the one of Narkina 5 to an even greater extend than the Galactic Empire did?
(My impression of the show so far is that it indeed argues that everyone and everything should be sacrificed for the revolution if necessary. Which is btw opposite to the argument that Return of the Jedi makes.)
I think Andor season 2 will come down against Luthen, and Cassian will choose loyalty over his own chance for power.
He has to protect the revolution from all those evil counter-revolutionaries...
Any sort of revolution favors authoritarians. The tumult itself creates conditions which push people that way. That's a huge reason I'm liberal instead of leftist. Revolution sucks, and incremental progress is possible
@@DamienWalter That'd be an excellent plot. The conflict between Mon Mothma's democratic idealism and a kind of violent nihilism of people like Luthen and Saw Gerrera
Interesting points.. can’t stop thinking how the writer of this series actually infused Stalin character here. More analysis of this will be great.
Echoes of themes from Metropolis too I imagine come to mind. It’s interesting that in Japanese offices - I’ve heard anecdotally - that it’s not so much the hard work that’s important to still be doing at the end of the day so much as the appearance of still being present there in the office out of loyalty to the company, the latest to leave being the most loyal of course as far as the bosses are concerned. At least I assume that’s what’s going on in the salarymen’s and office ladies minds, their own assumptions. Probably a continuation of their regimented and systematic educational experiences. Certain expectations must filter into their consciousness with regard to the working life.
Yes. It's the same in English offices.
What disturbed me was how easily the inmates were tricked/motivated into believing the work gave them a future - i.e. release.
Trick someone into believing the stone you are dangling is a carrot and you can make them do anything.
Great video. Can't wait for season 2 analysis after the release.
Excellent analysis. Thank you.
Reminds me of Lucas's film THX 1138. Great video!
Great video. Look up Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia. You may find it interesting.
As someone who worked 12-hour factory shifts, Narkina 5 was literally "my office."
Possibly the most unrealistic part of the depiction was the guards having blasters. Prisons in real life do not have guns in order to prevent exactly what we see in the show. Also, those nutrition lines have to be filthy.
Oh I need to rewatch now. I didn't REALLY put a real world source to it, but... Now that you say Lenin/Stalin, I realize I was kinda thinking Lawrence Of Arabia.
Thats why i like that show so much.
Wish you had talked about Bentham's philosophy of utilitarianism, which is one of the most evil philosophical ideas ever promoted.
Took me a minute to figure out the music towards the end, very appropriate.
Damn, yes, this is why I subscribe. A straight up Marxist analysis of the best Star Wars has to offer. Based! I came into Andor with low expectations, more Joseph W. Campbell for kids. I ended up moved and anticipating the next season. It's the best thing since the first couple seasons of Westworld, or Far Cry 5 (to see why, this 12 minutes will explain: ruclips.net/video/UHKuJ4q_1L0/видео.html)
Boy, I really can’t get enough of that slideshow sound effect.
The line which brought it into perspective, "I can't swim".
I'd say Cassian is young Che Guevara
The young Stalin was one of Che's biggest influences.
Did Andor attend medical school?
Quite different characters, I reckon.
thank you
Beautiful meditation.
Hotel california in the background is an apt choice.
So in Andor there was only One Way Out. My question is, what is the way out when it comes to everyday life? I like the metaphor.
Collective action.
@@DamienWalter so unionising, strikes and such? They have won great progress in the past and no doubt will do so again. But they still operate within the confines of what our bosses dictate. Maybe making it all more tolerable is the best we can do?
@@nerdmeister9786 @nerdmeister9786 The more serious answer. There are healthy and unhealthy hierarchies. Foucault is a little too extreme in critique.
Prob my fav role of Andy Circus. Great show
Andy Serkis 👻
Brilliant
Thank you
Because of the implication ...
Smooth segue.
Great video analysis!
Just another spoke in the wheel
Would like to here your thoughts on They Live
Homer Simpson had it right...
go on and do your job as half assedly as possible to just avoid being fired.
So Andor is Stalin? Wow, that wrecks the entire show for me.
Marxism is so much BS. Marx never had a job nor worked an honest day in his life. The things he spoke of about work were things he knew nothing about. He was a do nothing twat.
EAT, WORK, SLEEP, REPEAT!!!!
Superb stuff. I truly adore your open ended questions, the poking and the prodding. I think Foucault should be required reading, not least to critically engage with him. There's an inherent darkness in his view of the world that I think more earnest philosophers can't quite grasp. I think you can certainly say Marxist frameworks might well limit the space for investigation, but I think they provide a better basis for interrogating the nature of our modern world than any other, even if they leave out plenty.
It'd be great to hear you on Cassian's whole journey through to the end of Rogue One more fully, perhaps when Andor is all wrapped up.
I'm still debating with myself whether you have taken this sponsorship tongue in cheek. Kino Loy would benefit from their services, not to question whether the whole edifice should come crashing down, but how he might be able to sustain and continue participating in the system that's actively harming him.
it’s us
Great vid. Tho I don't get the random jab at liberals or public education... Afaik, they're allies to w.e minority faces injustices, at work or on the streets. That also means they've had decent public education that's helped them stay moral despite facing very real harm by standing with the scapegoats. Perhaps they're also in decent enough jobs to be able to strike or at least protest after work without worry of food or rent -.-
The video recounts Foucault's theory of power, which is a critique of liberalism. It claims one thing, but does another.
@@DamienWalter that doesn't sound like the liberals of this century. More like the conservatives who yell about supporting veterans and mental health, but only ever vote against funding vet or healthcare. Plus US liberals at least, want gov oversight on business so consumers can be educated to what's hidden in their products. Like the weakened prop 65 that at least says there's SOMETHING ~ hidden off the ingredients list in your tofu, but not always what and never how much :D
Then you disagree with Foucault's critique. But liberal in this case means the ideology of liberalism, which is not the same as the American usage.
@@DamienWalter makes sense. Thanks :)
you sure have a funny definition of "unsettling"...
Are you not unsettled?
Playing music by the most banal repulsive band ever perpetrated is so much worse than your description of the horrors of this movie.
Thank me, I almost went with Nickelback.
@@DamienWalter I should’ve gone with American band.
"I just don't like the eagle's man." Lebouski
Evil eye of Sauron, big brother, or Jesus. Watching my acts and thoughts so I had better regulate them and conform myself or else….
Evil? Yeah, they all are.
Star Wars for Grown ups is incredibly boring as hell. When Star Wars was for kids it was fun we had swashbuckling adventures, escapism, and the messages were easy to digest without feeling like you're being preached too. Now we stand around and talk about our feelings. We have to deconstruct the Rebels to show how gritty and villainous they can be. Who knew the Rebellion origins would be so boring. If this show didn't have Star Wars in the title, we wouldn't watch it.😮
R u dumb
@DamienWalter based analysis of Andor, and great video! As someone who's been studying Marxism Leninsm for a while, I greatly enjoyed Andor, even if a lot of it kinda smells of adventurism in some respects.