Jenova cells and Hojo's experiments probably gave him shapeshifting abilities. As to why Vincent turns into those things, underneath FF7s cyberpunk themed aesthetic is a story about occult magick and witchcraft which is why Vincent has a scythe. The job of the Turks was to seek the 'thaumaturge' which was the precursor to SOLDIER. And I think Vincent was supposed to be related to Sephiroth in earlier drafts. Speaking of Sephiroth, his name is not based in the Hebrew Kaballah as is generally accepted. Rather his name is from the Hermetic Qabalah which is the foundation of contemporary cults. The Sephiroth clones are seen wearing tau robes which are the quintessential occult stereotype. These concepts didn't die with OG either. These elements have returned in a very big way and are actually being used more than ever in Remake and Rebirth.
"And I think Vincent was supposed to be related to Sephiroth in earlier drafts." He still is. There are far too many similarities between these characters for Vincent not to be Sephiroth's father. Hojo may be Sephiroth's father in the sense that he created him (the same way that Frankenstein is the Monster's father, and either Sidious or Plagueis is Anakin Skywalker's father in Star Wars), but it's more than likely that Hojo impregnated Lucrecia using Vincent's seed.
@@jamesgravil9162 I can see that happening since he's an old f*ck who only cares about his craft, he wouldn't rlly want to do anything w Lucrecia. But on the other hand, the way they implied their relationship was that they had a fling or something along that, since Hojo feels even more above Vincent in a very "in your face way". Still pisses me off how fucking horrible Lucrecia is
@@sunnecas Speaking of Hojo and Lucrecia, there’s a book called Moonchiled in which some black mages attempt to give birth to an ethereal being through a human women through a series of magick experiments. Basically, a halfbreed between human and a god. Interesting to thinking about when you consider that Lucrecias last name is Crescent.
The Death Gigas form already makes sense since Hojo made Vincent a kind of Frankenstein creature. But the Hellmasker version has always been questionable. DoC Galian Beast looks more like a werewolf and Chaos looks more like a vampire. DG being Frankenstein is perfect but Hellmasker is still problematic. I doubt Hellmasker will wield a chainsaw if they choose to put him in the game. Or at least, I hope not. They could make him into a shadowy slasher instead, insert more Ghostface/Michael Meyers vibes, with a cleaver and butcher knife. As for DG, I hope they don't lean too hard into the physical attacks. I think Galian Beast should be a mauler (no more Beast Flare), and Death Gigas should have abilities that could be "explained by science" like its lightning attack. Oh and while Galian would be pretty fast, Hell would be faster and DG would be able to tank more damage. New forms? If Vincent's transformations are more along the line of personified fear rather than physical mutilation of his body, I would suggest something like the Terminator as the Horror of War or Freddy Krueger as the Horror of Dreams.
Why do you find it strange that he turns into a Frankenstein type monster? That character has a lot in common with Vincent and many other characters in the ff7 world. Think of it this way: The transformations are all the deep hidden angry monsters that Vincent tries so hard to suppress within and about himself. The Galian beast acts and reacts in primal wrath, Gigas is the monster Shinra made him, the Hellmasker is a hunter, the part that is seeking out revenge. Look at Vincent in the games, he gets betrayed and still keeps working and behaving like everything is fine. As long as Lucrecia’s happy it’s fine. It’s not fine, he’s rightfully furious deep down. In the original ff7 it is fitting that these monsters emerge while he cannot be controlled.
Well it's for the reasons I said. Frankenstein's monster is made up of random body parts from recently deceased people. People that Dr Frankenstein dug him and connected all the pieces. Just doesn't make sense he turns into that lol or Hellmasker
@@DashingDavid But remember the big picture, the moral Mary Shelly is trying to warn her audience about in her novel. It’s not what the monster is made of but how. Vincent has a lot in common with her monster, how someone playing God can cause so much misery. All of these transformations are Vincent himself and speak to a part of himself that he tries to keep suppressed.
Galian Beast and Chaos should follow the original version design. In the first place, Dirge of Cerberus is not the setting or story conceived by the original scenario writer. (Not even involved in development) Dirge has a lot of contradictions in both the setting and the story, so it can be said that it is a parallel world. As a fan, I can't forgive Garian Beast and Chaos unless they're the original version designs.
I want to know if we'll see a more gruesome flashback of vincent on the experiment table and possibly carved open and all kinds of tubes and needles and tools in or around him while he's in agony and hojo laughing hysterically and talking all kinds of shit to him. They need to make this a real horror and let people see and feel the suffering vincent went thru. I think it would make for a good part of the overall story and lore and also explain why he got these limit breaks.
That's how it could've been, but remember how they had that issue with blood in Remake? FF16's gritty tone could've been fine in Remake's saga I agree. I think we need a FF for the adults and one for toddlers as I do wanna get my kid more into it. For now he's only got Remake on classic mode.
I personally did not like the design for chaos in Dirge, nor did I like how they changed Galian Beast from a behemoth to a werewolf thing. Chaos could have been cool with what they were going for, but in the end he just looked silly. Galian being a behemoth fits better in the game, like a behemoth Hojo had in his lab that he modified. They could make it fit in the lore, like maybe Shinra was going to use weaponized monsters as attack dogs before they came up with soldier (maybe that is why Hojo took Nanaki after he realized a more intelligent "beast" would yeild better results) The Galian beast could be product of this sort of project. Maybe it was discarded as a failure for remaining too monstrous and not being able to follow orders or comply the way they wanted it to. But when Hojo was experimenting with metamorphosis, he decided to use galian, since it was an already modified creature, to merge with Vincent. Now that I think about it, maybe deepground took inspiration from Vincent and chaos to make Nero, then Vincent and Galian (a modified behemoth) to make Azul. They could add two completely new monsters for him to turn into, or they can keep Hellmask and Death Gigas, or they'll just have him turn into only galian and chaos like he did in Dirge. Who knows. But, it is interesting to think about, and I'm always gonna click on a video talking about Vincent. Tldr; My only major hope is that they redesign chaos and go back to Galian being a behemoth because itll make more sense narratively for a pre existing, *canon* monster to be used, rather than a werewolf for edge-points.
I need a lore purpose for Cait Sith's limit breaks. They make absolutely ZERO sense, in a game full of things that don't make sense. How exactly does throwing dice at enemies hurt them?
@@dontacrowder4319 "Edit: I don't see how changing the megaphone makes the mog stronger." I don't see how changing Red XIII's headcombs makes his attacks stronger, either. Maybe we shouldn't expect too much logic from a Final Fantasy game.
@@dontacrowder4319 It says that cait sith magically brought the toy mog to life, so my theory is that the megaphones magically increase the mogs attack
For the time, it seemed appropriate. But it's so old-school and dated now that I wouldn't be surprised if they completely changed up Death Gigas and Hellmasker. Lore-wise, they make no sense. The other thing is, they would have to add 3 new limit breaks to him anyways since everyone else has 7. So why not just flat out replace those two? They're obviously going hard on DoC so if I had to guess, we will not get Death Gigas or Hellmasker. I don't think they would make him a grim-reaper as that's literally what Chaos' purpose is so it might be redundant. But they could give him a scythe as a melee weapon (would totally love that).
This isn’t exactly a lore-based theory, so much as it is a concept I think Dirge should have made more of an emphasis on and could also then, be expanded on to have lore-based meaning….I feel like Vincent’s 4 transformations should be more clearly linked to the 4 colored Tsviets, that featured as such strong antagonists for him. The Galian Beast could be a sort of reflection of Azul. The Death Gigas could be retconned into this blood thirsty, speed freak that is reflective of Rosso. The Hellmasker could be reflective of Nero cause they’re both into kinky facewear (lol) and then you have the obvious, planetary connection between Omega (Weiss) and Chaos. The forms, in opposition with the Tsviets would then have a sort of narrative poetry that people can identify. Which we all know Dirge is in need of…
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
Jenova cells and Hojo's experiments probably gave him shapeshifting abilities. As to why Vincent turns into those things, underneath FF7s cyberpunk themed aesthetic is a story about occult magick and witchcraft which is why Vincent has a scythe. The job of the Turks was to seek the 'thaumaturge' which was the precursor to SOLDIER. And I think Vincent was supposed to be related to Sephiroth in earlier drafts. Speaking of Sephiroth, his name is not based in the Hebrew Kaballah as is generally accepted. Rather his name is from the Hermetic Qabalah which is the foundation of contemporary cults. The Sephiroth clones are seen wearing tau robes which are the quintessential occult stereotype.
These concepts didn't die with OG either. These elements have returned in a very big way and are actually being used more than ever in Remake and Rebirth.
"And I think Vincent was supposed to be related to Sephiroth in earlier drafts."
He still is. There are far too many similarities between these characters for Vincent not to be Sephiroth's father. Hojo may be Sephiroth's father in the sense that he created him (the same way that Frankenstein is the Monster's father, and either Sidious or Plagueis is Anakin Skywalker's father in Star Wars), but it's more than likely that Hojo impregnated Lucrecia using Vincent's seed.
@@jamesgravil9162 I can see that happening since he's an old f*ck who only cares about his craft, he wouldn't rlly want to do anything w Lucrecia. But on the other hand, the way they implied their relationship was that they had a fling or something along that, since Hojo feels even more above Vincent in a very "in your face way".
Still pisses me off how fucking horrible Lucrecia is
@@jamesgravil9162 I hope this is true because I could never buy the fact that Hojo is Sephiroth’s father.
@@sunnecas Speaking of Hojo and Lucrecia, there’s a book called Moonchiled in which some black mages attempt to give birth to an ethereal being through a human women through a series of magick experiments.
Basically, a halfbreed between human and a god. Interesting to thinking about when you consider that Lucrecias last name is Crescent.
@@JustinC721 hm maybe that could be the case yeah
I am dying of ff7 thirst!!! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
👁 👄 👁 “
The Death Gigas form already makes sense since Hojo made Vincent a kind of Frankenstein creature. But the Hellmasker version has always been questionable.
DoC Galian Beast looks more like a werewolf and Chaos looks more like a vampire. DG being Frankenstein is perfect but Hellmasker is still problematic.
I doubt Hellmasker will wield a chainsaw if they choose to put him in the game. Or at least, I hope not. They could make him into a shadowy slasher instead, insert more Ghostface/Michael Meyers vibes, with a cleaver and butcher knife.
As for DG, I hope they don't lean too hard into the physical attacks. I think Galian Beast should be a mauler (no more Beast Flare), and Death Gigas should have abilities that could be "explained by science" like its lightning attack. Oh and while Galian would be pretty fast, Hell would be faster and DG would be able to tank more damage.
New forms? If Vincent's transformations are more along the line of personified fear rather than physical mutilation of his body, I would suggest something like the Terminator as the Horror of War or Freddy Krueger as the Horror of Dreams.
Why do you find it strange that he turns into a Frankenstein type monster? That character has a lot in common with Vincent and many other characters in the ff7 world. Think of it this way: The transformations are all the deep hidden angry monsters that Vincent tries so hard to suppress within and about himself. The Galian beast acts and reacts in primal wrath, Gigas is the monster Shinra made him, the Hellmasker is a hunter, the part that is seeking out revenge. Look at Vincent in the games, he gets betrayed and still keeps working and behaving like everything is fine. As long as Lucrecia’s happy it’s fine. It’s not fine, he’s rightfully furious deep down. In the original ff7 it is fitting that these monsters emerge while he cannot be controlled.
Well it's for the reasons I said. Frankenstein's monster is made up of random body parts from recently deceased people. People that Dr Frankenstein dug him and connected all the pieces. Just doesn't make sense he turns into that lol or Hellmasker
@@DashingDavid But remember the big picture, the moral Mary Shelly is trying to warn her audience about in her novel. It’s not what the monster is made of but how. Vincent has a lot in common with her monster, how someone playing God can cause so much misery. All of these transformations are Vincent himself and speak to a part of himself that he tries to keep suppressed.
Galian Beast and Chaos should follow the original version design.
In the first place, Dirge of Cerberus is not the setting or story conceived by the original scenario writer. (Not even involved in development)
Dirge has a lot of contradictions in both the setting and the story, so it can be said that it is a parallel world.
As a fan, I can't forgive Garian Beast and Chaos unless they're the original version designs.
Eh.. I just hope in ff7rebirth when vincent turn, i still can control him... Not just go berserk uncontrollable
I want to know if we'll see a more gruesome flashback of vincent on the experiment table and possibly carved open and all kinds of tubes and needles and tools in or around him while he's in agony and hojo laughing hysterically and talking all kinds of shit to him. They need to make this a real horror and let people see and feel the suffering vincent went thru. I think it would make for a good part of the overall story and lore and also explain why he got these limit breaks.
That's how it could've been, but remember how they had that issue with blood in Remake? FF16's gritty tone could've been fine in Remake's saga I agree. I think we need a FF for the adults and one for toddlers as I do wanna get my kid more into it. For now he's only got Remake on classic mode.
Bro, it sounds like you have a BDSM and Gore fetish you might need help 👁 👄 👁
The scythe would be dope as fuck man I've never seen that art for Mr. Valentine very very badass
I want more forms, personally
I personally did not like the design for chaos in Dirge, nor did I like how they changed Galian Beast from a behemoth to a werewolf thing. Chaos could have been cool with what they were going for, but in the end he just looked silly.
Galian being a behemoth fits better in the game, like a behemoth Hojo had in his lab that he modified. They could make it fit in the lore, like maybe Shinra was going to use weaponized monsters as attack dogs before they came up with soldier (maybe that is why Hojo took Nanaki after he realized a more intelligent "beast" would yeild better results) The Galian beast could be product of this sort of project. Maybe it was discarded as a failure for remaining too monstrous and not being able to follow orders or comply the way they wanted it to. But when Hojo was experimenting with metamorphosis, he decided to use galian, since it was an already modified creature, to merge with Vincent.
Now that I think about it, maybe deepground took inspiration from Vincent and chaos to make Nero, then Vincent and Galian (a modified behemoth) to make Azul.
They could add two completely new monsters for him to turn into, or they can keep Hellmask and Death Gigas, or they'll just have him turn into only galian and chaos like he did in Dirge. Who knows. But, it is interesting to think about, and I'm always gonna click on a video talking about Vincent.
Tldr; My only major hope is that they redesign chaos and go back to Galian being a behemoth because itll make more sense narratively for a pre existing, *canon* monster to be used, rather than a werewolf for edge-points.
I need a lore purpose for Cait Sith's limit breaks. They make absolutely ZERO sense, in a game full of things that don't make sense. How exactly does throwing dice at enemies hurt them?
Or even the megaphone since it's in world function is commanding the mog.
Edit: I don't see how changing the megaphone makes the mog stronger.
@@dontacrowder4319 "Edit: I don't see how changing the megaphone makes the mog stronger."
I don't see how changing Red XIII's headcombs makes his attacks stronger, either. Maybe we shouldn't expect too much logic from a Final Fantasy game.
@@dontacrowder4319
It says that cait sith magically brought the toy mog to life, so my theory is that the megaphones magically increase the mogs attack
Just got past Vincent in rebirth. That fight was awesome! I hope they use his other forms.
For the time, it seemed appropriate. But it's so old-school and dated now that I wouldn't be surprised if they completely changed up Death Gigas and Hellmasker. Lore-wise, they make no sense. The other thing is, they would have to add 3 new limit breaks to him anyways since everyone else has 7. So why not just flat out replace those two? They're obviously going hard on DoC so if I had to guess, we will not get Death Gigas or Hellmasker. I don't think they would make him a grim-reaper as that's literally what Chaos' purpose is so it might be redundant. But they could give him a scythe as a melee weapon (would totally love that).
I'm considering watching all 303 current TWD episodes again just to numb the itch! 😭
You definitely should!
This isn’t exactly a lore-based theory, so much as it is a concept I think Dirge should have made more of an emphasis on and could also then, be expanded on to have lore-based meaning….I feel like Vincent’s 4 transformations should be more clearly linked to the 4 colored Tsviets, that featured as such strong antagonists for him. The Galian Beast could be a sort of reflection of Azul. The Death Gigas could be retconned into this blood thirsty, speed freak that is reflective of Rosso. The Hellmasker could be reflective of Nero cause they’re both into kinky facewear (lol) and then you have the obvious, planetary connection between Omega (Weiss) and Chaos. The forms, in opposition with the Tsviets would then have a sort of narrative poetry that people can identify. Which we all know Dirge is in need of…
Vincent is most mysterious character that’s for sure ( I hope in FF7R he doesn’t have long pointy golden shoes just felt unnecessary)
Nahhh those shoes are iconic
We need he absurdly sized sabatons!
The other forms of Vincent just seem to rip from his 80's horror aesthetic/theme , I honestly really doubt there are any in lore reasons
While I do agree to a certain extent there weren't lore reason for Chaos or Galian Beast either. At least at first.
@@DashingDavid oh definitely, I think those were more of a wild interpretation of werewolf and demon that they managed to turn into something else
That’s exactly what some of them are based on, they were fans