Necromunda Hive Secundus - High Tech or Malformed?

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 88

  • @marklong4317
    @marklong4317 3 месяца назад +17

    Hi Peter, typical GW lack of continuity within one game system! Different scaling, different materials (card/paper gameboards), the only consistent factor is price increases on their products!

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      Such is life with everything these days I guess!

    • @ToastErickson
      @ToastErickson 3 месяца назад +1

      Necromunda only had cardboard for the Underhive box’s tiles. Since then it has been paper.

    • @marklong4317
      @marklong4317 3 месяца назад +1

      @@ToastErickson still sucks! And they do it across the board with most of their games. Not that I’m a tournament player, but constant rules changes and nerfing must be hard work to stay on top of. Each to their own, I suppose…

  • @darkzim3872
    @darkzim3872 3 месяца назад +3

    years ago when Necromunda first come out me and my friends used to play on a massive table
    two people bought the Necromunda set and then we purchased a water damaged box and finally we bought another box from a car boot
    our table was 8 foot by 4 on a old market stall set up in a spare bed room
    we made a lot of scratch built terrain and all our gangers used to play on the same terrain which we never changed the terrain from game to game it was really impressive to look at especially the 12 floor tower in the centre belonging to a massive building which must have been at least 2 foot by 2foot and 4 foot tall

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      I still have that original terrain and it still works incredibly well - it was an ingenious mix of cardboard and not-that-much plastic that took up a lot of table space affordably. Of course, nothing's stopping us from scratch building huge setups as you say, but I guess as I've got older I've got lazier in that regard. Thanks for sharing your Necromunda memories!

  • @StellaCrowley
    @StellaCrowley 3 месяца назад +7

    You are right to complain. Raising prices and lowering quality is not acceptable.

  • @ToastErickson
    @ToastErickson 3 месяца назад +1

    I am actually all for the paper mats. Keeps the weight of the box down, but also with Necromunda GW has always pushed for you making the game super immersive with terrain.
    They only had cardboard for the Underhive box’s tiles.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      I very much dislike them for the reasons mentioned in the video, but I certainly agree they include them not only to save on production costs, but also to get you to buy their plastic tiles because included the paper mats are so unsatisfying.

  • @stevo_hobbies
    @stevo_hobbies 3 месяца назад +1

    Yep, I picked up my preorder this weekend, and my flightstands were all absolutely smashed in the bottom of the box. Thankfully I was able to salvage the couple I needed 🤨

  • @stevebarnett-f5o
    @stevebarnett-f5o 3 месяца назад +3

    I was going to get this, until I watched this review. Not for me, small fiddly parts don't work with my eyes these days. Good review, many thanks.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      It did feel like the fiddly factor was very high with this one.

  • @noprobllama9747
    @noprobllama9747 3 месяца назад +2

    I struggled with the small parts too. The two heavy weapon Van Saar had tiny face shield bits either side. They looked great without the side bits so I didn't bother adding them.

  • @Mario-pq9bi
    @Mario-pq9bi 3 месяца назад +1

    At last a hive secundus review from the one and only !!!!!!!

  • @StabSam
    @StabSam 3 месяца назад +3

    I built 2 Van Saar and i actually start to dislike the amount of detail and small items that are included. I feel it keeps getting smaller and smaller.
    Found it really hard to clean up the pieces without damaging them!

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      My fingers are relatively dextrous, but I did find myself wondering how those with fatter fingers would have fared!

  • @Gridash
    @Gridash 3 месяца назад +2

    Thanks for the seemingly honest review!

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      Not seemingly my friend, never seemingly! 🤣

    • @Gridash
      @Gridash 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers Yeah I'm careful nowadays, but yours is honest. Good video.

    • @Gridash
      @Gridash 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers The vibe I'm getting with this box is that they took out parts that should have been in there, and they've put them behind a paywall, like DLC. A shame, I like the idea of the box, but not the ultra monetization part. They've cut a lot of corners here. A pass for me, despite of it giving nice Space Hulk vibes, I can't justify the cost.

  • @GrimrDirge
    @GrimrDirge 3 месяца назад +3

    Van Saar are a huge pain, the worst in Necromunda. Flayed ones are worse, but not by much. Anyhow the books are for fluff, Yaktribes is for playing.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      I hadn't seen that website before. Very handy, I'm surprised GW has let it exist!

  • @Jux925
    @Jux925 3 месяца назад

    Good explanation of painting this old-metal look

  • @BrettBallanger
    @BrettBallanger Месяц назад

    Glad to hear I'm not the only one disappointed in some of the material qualities. Hive Secundus lore is interesting as a knowledge based hive. I enjoyed the dungeon crawl vibes. I feel they could have done more to make the Underhells look different.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  Месяц назад +1

      Yeah, the melted terrain definitely was a bit of a cop out!

  • @LordTechnopants
    @LordTechnopants 3 месяца назад +3

    Bad cardboard box. Bad feelings. I own a lot of Necromunda stuff and it's all in thick card boxes. What has gone wrong? A £12 jigsaw comes in a better and more rigid box (I know, I buy jiggies for my better half) - and your pronunciation is spot on Peter Se CUN DUS. I quite like the campaign in this box, but I'm holding off for now.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      I wonder if the campaign would hold as much interest as a normal one, given the Malstrain don't really progress. But I can't say without having played it.

    • @LordTechnopants
      @LordTechnopants 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers That's a good point. I think the format is an odd premise for what could be bought as a 'starter set' and of much more appeal to a seasoned player, looking for a left-field alternative? I like the minis and would definitely enjoy the set, but the box leaves such a cheap aftertaste. I don't care about the paper mats as I have plastic tiles, but I think the only flimsy GW boxes I have are Adeptus Titanicus & Warcry Catacombs. I'm a bit torn, like I expect many of these boxes will be! Compared to the 2017 Underhive box (which I have), it matches inflation for price increase, but the box and the mats are downgrades, so it is worse in value terms. Hmmm.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      @@LordTechnopants Still can't believe Adeptus Titanicus had a cheap box. Now THAT's an expensive game!

    • @LordTechnopants
      @LordTechnopants 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers Yes - I know they wanted to make it a lot cheaper than the big initial box with two Warlord Titans, but..... I think the price of a Warlord alone is now almost as much as I paid for Kill Team in 2018!

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      @@LordTechnopants I'd like another Warlord, but I can't justify the expense. As and for the Warmaster - NZ$311, which is insane. By the way, they're all being rebranded as Legions Imperialis now.

  • @TybJim
    @TybJim 3 месяца назад

    My Secundus had damaged on the packaging and internal books as well. The paper mat sucks as the original Necromunda Underhive had good quality cardboard boards. I do like the new cardboard card sleeve as opposed to sealing them in shrink wrapped plastic. That said, at least they don't recycle the rules every 3 years like their main product lines.

  • @Mario-pq9bi
    @Mario-pq9bi 3 месяца назад +1

    This is the second set i bought for necromunda (after the 1st 2017 one). I was drawn by the dungeon crawl space hulk feel. But you are right all the way, the flimsy box (something that started to come up with last warcry big Box Releases) , paper map and the bits that don't even come in a sealed bag feels like a downfall of civilisation for boardgames.

    • @Mario-pq9bi
      @Mario-pq9bi 3 месяца назад +1

      Oh! And of course the price! All this would be more acceptable if the box was 70 usd. What we get just does NOT compute with the price tag and what we were used to. For the love of God, the box feels like Space Hulk, Space Marine, Adeptus Titanicus 1 editions from the early 80s.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      You're right, it's about the same level of cardboard quality as those old 80s and 90s releases.

  • @oliverklar813
    @oliverklar813 3 месяца назад +1

    Thank you! I had the same issue with some of the Kill Team (Ashes Box) Warcry (all secondary boxes). For the price a real disappointment.
    But GW gets away with all of it as we are so eager to buy and Play their stuff. Gamers... we just want to play

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      And most businesses try to make more money if they can by all cost-cutting by any means necessary. It's annoying but very common...

  • @surnis9043
    @surnis9043 3 месяца назад

    40k doesn't use templates anymore, so don't expect an update to them anytime soon!

  • @saltfreegamer
    @saltfreegamer 3 месяца назад

    Necromunda has great models and style, but the game ecosystem itself suffers from all of the usual flaws of a GW product. I plan to run other game systems with my set, like 5 Parsecs, Stargrave, Grimdark Firefight, maybe even '90s Necromunda.
    There are a bunch of DIY and cardstock solutions for terrain that are way more practical than GW's overpriced kits. It's a shame really, imagine if they made affordable terrain kits from recycled sprue bits and other lower grade plastics. It would greatly improve the look of the average table and the perception of their products.
    Thanks for the detailed critique, I think you're spot on.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      I agree with you that Necromunda is pretty clunky these days, but have you tried Warcry and Kill Team? By getting rid of the extraneous 'to wound' step and innovating in several ways, they're much snappier and more modern systems. And of course, since the first days of wargaming, we can always make our own terrain. I don't think GW is going to be making 'affordable' kits any time soon!
      Thanks for watching!

    • @saltfreegamer
      @saltfreegamer 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers I can usually tolerate a slightly clunky game system, IMO the unforgivable bit with GW games is the customer hostile stuff like locking up model stats in expensive books you don't really want, and packaging kits up in ways that pressure you to buy more than you really need. KT2021 is awful for both of these. I really liked the grand alliance compendiums at the end of Warcry 1e, but my understanding is the current edition is now like KT on both points.
      I've found that if you detach yourself from their game systems, you can just enjoy GW's models without those issues, which makes the hobby a lot more chill. Yay indie games!

  • @Adler87
    @Adler87 3 месяца назад

    I like your Hive Secudus pronunciation - it matches my own (non-English, Central European) ;)
    I bought Hive Secundus second-hand from an influencer for about 101$ at that day's exchange rate (171,67$ NZ dollars) and that was a good deal so GW cutting corners doesn't hurt so much. No love of course. Just started Necromunda not so long ago so the rules included in the book work fine for me - I don't need to buy a book with core rules. And bout assembling fiddly miniatures - I'm used to this kind of thing - AdMech and LRL made me more resistant to it XD
    I like the ISS Vanguard boxes behind you - it brings my friends from AR to mind.
    Have you heard about Necro-vox? If you hadn't just given that page a check, I think you won't regret it.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      That's a fantastic deal - it can be got for NS$307 here but the GW website price is NZ$347!
      Necro-vox looks like a huge amount of work - sadly it looks like it won't be up for much longer.

  • @johnhe0414
    @johnhe0414 3 месяца назад

    There was a lot of negativity…but I agree, those dice are just awesome 😅. The models are great looking too.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      Well, you'd be amazed at how I get accused of 'shilling' when I'm too positive! All I can do is call it how I see it.

    • @johnhe0414
      @johnhe0414 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers Well done

  • @andrewbeeching1240
    @andrewbeeching1240 3 месяца назад +1

    NZD $350 for this is less than i was expecting, but given the quality of the mats, and the relative lack of terrain pieces, it's certainly more $$$ than it seems to justify. Which isn't anything new from GW, sadly

  • @DeanError
    @DeanError 2 месяца назад

    Peak fail, even their compendium attempt at the rules required you to buy more books if you wanted everything.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  2 месяца назад

      @DeanError If you want everything, you'll always have to buy more. GW's games are constantly evolving, that's how they make money. It's not in their interests to satisfy you to the point where you stop buying. Unfortunately, it's good business that keeps them alive and thriving - nothing 'peak fail' about it. 😉

  • @uriance88
    @uriance88 3 месяца назад +1

    Comparing to the last Necromunda starter set isn't really a comparison - better to compare to more recent GW releases. Paper mats are the standard for everything now (higher profits than cardboard) and probably the same reason for box 'weight' dropping. It's all about profit - and why have a designer spend time (and then the cost of tooling molds) on terrain that won't be a big seller. Always look at GW releases in terms of their profit margin . . . (but also look at # of minis and compare to individual prices - at least here in Canada the price of a Reaper sio cast mini (about same quality as GW) is around $7, so with 20 models in the box (18 minis, round up for terrain), it's pretty comparable once you factor in rules and templates.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      Not sure if I agree with you completely there - Kill Team, War Cry and the new Age of Sigmar set are still doing cardboard play surfaces. Considering the price increase from the Underhive set to this set due to the passing of time, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect the same quality level in the box and boards. Anyway, like all GW product, it's expensive by any measure!

  • @dibblethewrecker
    @dibblethewrecker 3 месяца назад

    Don't say "saving money", please, say "increasing profits"! My box was torn when it arrived, I suspect it was just damaged during packing - I imagine would easily tear under it's own weight.

  • @alexl6425
    @alexl6425 3 месяца назад

    What are the small bits for on the terrain sprue?

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      They're the feet for the doors and walls, so they stand up.

  • @michaelgrey1351
    @michaelgrey1351 3 месяца назад +1

    "This guy has a rad gun."
    Me: "yeah, it does look pretty cool."

  • @kingorpawn
    @kingorpawn 3 месяца назад

    Hive Secoondoos.

  • @MalakhimJWQ1
    @MalakhimJWQ1 3 месяца назад

    Hail all

  • @itsallfunandgames723
    @itsallfunandgames723 3 месяца назад +2

    Boy, I just never could get used to the idea that Necromunda went from being this massive 1980s, arcology hive city, to now being a series of hallways. It used to be massive industrial spaces, now it's like they all live in an endless series of hallways. Don't quite understand how the best part of the setting has been lost.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      Well, we can still play games like that, it all depends on your terrain collection. Playing on a sheet in this more 2D fashion is just an option - just a way of cutting down the basic terrain requirements that started with the Underhive set, really. It was a bit shocking when that set came out, I agree, but no one's forcing us to play that way.

    • @jason2089
      @jason2089 3 месяца назад +1

      Don't let GW's creative boundaries limit you. That mega structure from the 90s was not a GW terrain piece.
      This set is designed to have broader appeal to include those who are not enfranchised. At least all the terrain since Shadow War still holds up and massive tables still play that way. The next book (it's own issue) is expanding to regular terrain and games. This is just an intro product. Underhive brought in a lot of players and the amount of DiY content within months of that time went from nearly 0 (Eric's Hobby Workshop did a lot of heavy lifting) to hundreds. N17 will always be a sandbox game in stark contrast to 40k with rigid and competitive rules.

    • @michaelgrey1351
      @michaelgrey1351 3 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers This. I used my mass of Deadzone terrain to make a sizable Necromunda board. It works great and the rules allow for it.

  • @tomj.7599
    @tomj.7599 3 месяца назад

    They are trying to save on the quality of the boxes to make the game cheaper. Meanwhile, all prices keep going up. Oh GW.. "premium product" means premium prices for weak games.

  • @JabbaTheHuff
    @JabbaTheHuff 3 месяца назад +3

    I can’t stand when people pronounce it Necromunda instead of Necromunda.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад +1

      I know, right? And there are a few weirdos who even pronounce it - get this - Necromunda. 🤣

    • @andrewbeeching1240
      @andrewbeeching1240 3 месяца назад

      You're *both* wrong - it's "Neh-CROW-minda". Honestly! 😂

    • @Mario-pq9bi
      @Mario-pq9bi 3 месяца назад

      Nekromünda , folks... really can't get any easier than that!

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      @@Mario-pq9bi Ahh, the death metal version!

    • @Adler87
      @Adler87 3 месяца назад

      @@Mario-pq9bi no, no - Nekromunda, without umlaut XD

  • @johnclarke25
    @johnclarke25 Месяц назад

    Like the books but too dear to buy,same as the new set so just use the mats and spare box you could buy and put my 1st edition card buildings on and to be honest just use original rules from first game.

  • @pabloalonsolasagabaster658
    @pabloalonsolasagabaster658 2 месяца назад

    hehe I dont want necromunda to be like kill team. I would like Kill team to be like necromunda

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  2 месяца назад +1

      Off you go with your roll to hit/roll to wound/roll to save shenanigans, whatever makes you happy! 🤣

    • @pabloalonsolasagabaster658
      @pabloalonsolasagabaster658 2 месяца назад

      @@EsotericOrderGamers hahahhaha what is wrong with that !!! :P off you go with your conceal an tedious line of site incredibly specific rules

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  2 месяца назад

      Now you're making me laugh! Necromunda *doesn’t* have incredibly specific rules? You've got to be joking! About a 500 different types of weapons for a start ... 🤣
      Anyway, I love Necromunda too. They’re just different games for different moods.

  • @theminiaturestavern
    @theminiaturestavern 3 месяца назад

    Man, what a step back from previous sets. I'll be passing on this box

  • @Direwoof
    @Direwoof 3 месяца назад

    GW is absolute rubbish m8, try out infinity! Brill game.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      I played Infinity once, even made a video out of it. One of my worst - we got the rules wrong because they were so badly written! I know it's a good game from many reports, but the minis all feel very samey to me and it just doesn't inspire me to spend the time and money getting to know it.

  • @Digitalfiendscom
    @Digitalfiendscom 3 месяца назад

    My introduction to Necromunda was Dark Uprising. Now THAT was a box set - the terrain alone was impressive but the two gangs, Corpse Grinder and Palanite Enforcers, were excellent as well. I was hooked immediately as the quality and value of the product seemed to far exceed anything from 40K or AoS up to that point (Kill Team was pretty close though). Ended up scoring the original Underhive box set for the cardboard tiles, picked up way too many Zone Mortalis tile sets, extra terrain, and the Ash Wastes. Really love Necromunda and have always appreciated the quality of the product. But this release is the first time I’ve felt a bit let-down. I was drawn in by the atmosphere and potential of Hive Secundus and the Genestealers but the box is a bit underwhelming. Not including the new ruined Zone Mortalis terrain is a bit of a bummer too.
    As touched on in the video, the amount of books needed for this game is a bit crazy. Thankfully, digital versions are available but damn, having all the rules spread out is rough. With that said, Necromunda is so thematic and visually impactful (with good terrain) and is still one of my favourite GW games. I hope this release is just an anomaly and not a sign of the future releases.

    • @EsotericOrderGamers
      @EsotericOrderGamers  3 месяца назад

      Yep, I agree with you on all counts. They definitely could have thrown in the two 'hive data stack cluster' models, which cost me NZ$90 and are actually pretty small and underwhelming.