This is impressive - well done Bob Prechter and thank you again Phoebe! I agree with Phoebe, Oxford's Voices is so thoroughly researched and really does come up with a massive body of well-referenced evidence. Anyone who dismisses 'Oxford's Voices' without reading it can be dismissed without further ado.
Phoebe, I just want to second Bob's comments at the end about your positive energy and your contributions to this topic. I find it a fascinating mystery and I've learned so much from studying it about the history of the times and how people back then thought and acted. When the dam finally breaks, everyone (even the Stratfordians) will have a ball exploring the mystery and I believe your efforts are helping bring that time closer.
I am truly gobsmacked. Thank you again for sharing this work. I absolutely have to get Oxford’s Voices. I’ve long thought there must still be an extant body of Oxford’s work, so this is such a treat. And what scholarship! I’m also completely chuffed that you mentioned Dowland at the end. I’m a guitarist and lutenist, my period of speciality is Elizabethan (in terms of the lute), and my hero is John Dowland. Even though I know full well just how great a lutenist he was, I’ve never believed he’d composed all those great tunes, the lyrics of which are brilliant. (Aside: I love your use of ‘Can She Excuse’). So I was thrilled that you mention this. In any case, you’ve now given me plenty of catching-up to do. You’ve made my year, cheers!
Wow what an amazing comment! This is so wonderful to hear. We are putting together an Oxford’s Voices Theater Festival on zoom and want to feature some of De Vere’s songs in it, maybe you could play something for us on the lute?? That’s amazing that you always intuited the truth :) I am obsessed with the Earl of Essex’s gaillard and play it all the time 😭 Please join the Oxford’s Allonyms Facebook group, or email me at phoebenir@gmail.com
@@phoebe_devere Oh wow, I would be honoured, thank you! Unfortunately, the problem I face is that I just sold my (two!) lutes in order to have my *dream* lute built. And it won't be ready till sometime late in 2025. However, once I have it in hand, if the offer still hands, I would sincerely love the opportunity. Again, I truly love your work; I think what people such as yourself, Robert Prechter, and the SOF do should be required viewing. Cheers!
Also, if Henry Wriothesley was not a Tudor prince, then why when he committed treason against the crown, was he rewarded with land and money. He lived out the rest of his days in wealth and peace. A strange fate for someone who was guilty of treason. Why is it called the Essex rebellion and not the Southampton rebellion. Also, the Queen travelled to his school to see him graduate, what other young man did she do this for? Every work of Shake-Speare was dedicated to Henry Wriothesley up until the rebellion, then his name is buried. A deal was struck.
There is a 'Bridal Song' in 'Two Noble Kinsmen' (by Shakespeare/John Fletcher - more likely the latter as sole author) which includes a verse ostensibly about Spring that opens with: 'Primrose, first-born child of Ver'. Given the proclivity toward 'double-entendres' among authors of the period, the entire stanza may be read as alluding to the 'little trophy' of an infant Oxford, consistent with the hypothesis of a relationship between the 17th earl and QE1.
Thanks for another intriguing video with Robert. His book - long though it be - is well-researched and has so much information it is an encyclopedia of the English Literary Renaissance. I am with Robert in that I am agnostic about the queen having any affairs, let alone with de Vere. I believe she would not have allowed herself to be pregnant since she was accused of being a royal bastard (RB). During the five years she was under house arrest by her half-sister Mary, there was the real possibility that she would have been assassinated because she had so little power at that time. We envision her as someone who was all-powerful, but that was not always true. Her hold on the throne was precarious for her entire reign. Catholics wanted her dead or at least deposed in favour of a Catholic ruler. Rebels at home and across the sea were constantly plotting against her, not the least of whom was the King of Spain. The Pope excommunicated her and some of her Puritan members of Parliament wanted her to tighten her grip on the church of England and make the kingdom into a stronger police state than it already was. Any RBs would have made things worse. I believe that some of de Vere's earlier poems were possibly that of a courtier who had a dalliance with the queen, but many younger nobles of the time also wrote flattering poems and dedications to her. So, his amorous verse to her may have been either wishful thinking by a young man infatuated with her or merely something other poets were doing at the time; imagining an affair with the most glamorous and most powerful woman in the kingdom. Even Penelope Rich didn't have the same allure the queen had. The fact that she was single made things more enticing. However, Robert presents compelling evidence that she may have had an affair with de Vere that deserves closer scrutiny. Yet, I cannot escape the feeling that much of it is fantasy and young poets wanting to have an affair with her. Think of the millions of teens and young adults today who imagine affairs with the latest musical or movie superstars and you get the general idea. But would she have had any children by him? Would she have risked all by giving birth to an RB after she spent so many years with that hanging over her own head? To me, the logistics of keeping any RBs hidden make them a near-impossibility because it would have taken at least 100 people to have kept any single RBs secret. And who would have monitored them but another 100 people. Then those people would have had to be monitored, and so on. Given she had hand maidens and Maids of Honour who were not as discrete as needed for such a secret - Anne Vavasour comes to mind - would she have allowed herself to become pregnant? She would also have thought ahead to the possibility that the RBs could have eventually been exposed for who they were or when they were of the age of majority and capable of plotting to take the throne by force therefore it is likely that there were no RBs. Both scenarios would have caused chaos in England, causing almost as much strife as the Wars of the Roses. Those are just some of the reasons I believe she never had affairs which produced any RBs. As for the numerous sexual alliances with nobles like de Vere and Dudley, that is another story. I will comment on a line Robert quotes at 6:35. William Cecil was known to have had an extensive network of spies rivalling that of Sir Francis Walsingham the queen's official spymaster, so the reference to Argus could have been directed at him since he was constantly spying on de Vere. He hired spies to accompany de Vere while he traveled the continent which may be the subject of Sonnet 61: "Is it thy spirit [spy] that thou sends't from thee / So farre from home into my deeds to prye / To find out shames and idle hours in me...?". I believe this sonnet was written in the years 1575-76 while he was on the continent. The date of publication of the Gorgeous Gallery fits this idea since the events would have been topical for the courtiers who made up the audience of the collection. Robert, however, reads into the line a preposition. He reads: "... forbid us [to] meet" (6:37) whereas the line reads "forbid us meat" which could easily be an allusion to the time when William Cecil wanted to pass legislation forbidding everyone from eating red meat several times per week. If I recall, in Hamlet Polonius was called a "fish monger" which matches this allusion. That being said, the line could mean both ideas. The problem with getting to the bottom of this is the fact there are no personal letters by de Vere on his personal life which would give us insight into what happened between him and the queen. All we have is innuendo, court gossip and the writing which may or may not be about an actual affair. You and Robert have done an excellent job presenting a case for one with de Vere. This video will require at least three more views before I can gather it all in. One final note. The "turtle" in the poem The Phoenix and the Turtle (22:19) is a turtle dove, not a marine reptile. Many people get this confused.
You are assuming people are always logical in thinking. It's not true - we are emotional beings and lust can easily take over. Once they are laised it would become routine. She likely had a similar relationship with Dudley, ironically. As for keeping things quiet, would you dare go against the monarch in Tudor England? Exactly
@@joecurran2811 I actually incorporate emotion into my argument against the queen having RB's. Having gone through house arrest for half a decade, she would not have wanted any of her blood to have to go through the same turmoil and stress. It would be a mother's instinct to keep her children safe and had she any children out of wedlock neither they nor she would have been safe. As for keeping things quiet, in the day to day life of adoptive parents of the sort we are talking about (the nobility), it would be easy for someone to let something slip out. I estimate that for each RB there would have to be something on the order of 50 people to keep the secret intact and perhaps double that to ensure nobody leaked anything. It does not make practical sense to assume that the RB's identity would be kept for 20 or more years. But you are right: who would dare to risk all by going against the wishes of the supreme monarch of England? Plenty of people tried but look where they ended up: dead or exiled.
@@CulinarySpy You should see the notes I am taking (you will receive some today). It's odd that we have to say "orthodox" Oxfordians since, according to academics, we are all "heretics" for trying to understand the evidence they have been looking at for generations. Some day we will be vindicated as more scholars outside of the English departments (and within) will take a second, third, and fourth look at what we clearly see is evidence for de Vere's mighty hand in raising the bar for the English language. Between him and John Florio, the language rose above that of most European tongues. Perhaps that is one reason why so many people around the world today are learning it. That, plus the fact the internet has given the language world-wide distribution outside of former English colonies. Whatever history says of "Shakespeare" the fact remains his plays are the most produced in history. At one time in the 1980s it was estimated that somewhere on the planet a production of one of his plays was being performed every two minutes.
So what was Elizabeth doing in the early 1570s? Did “another man” come into her life? Did international matters, eg, the whole marriage to Spain thing, influence her behavior? Or was it psychological? Perhaps, the more she experienced Oxford’s love, the more terrified she became. Men on thrones chopped off women’s heads. Repeatedly. It may have been subconscious, but how could she not fear that? Thanks for this brilliant series.
I think when there was a baby in the picture things got too serious and she had to distance herself to retain her solo reign. I highly recommend watching Hank whittemore’s presentation “shake-speare’s treason” here on RUclips! It’s life altering work in my opinion
Regarding the Tudor Rose Theory,, I recommend to Bob Prechter, the second part of David Shakespeare's discussion of this possibility: ruclips.net/video/duL5zJwnRX4/видео.html. In Particular,, toward the end,. when poems by Thomas Nash and George Peale are considered. The Shakespeare Sonnet poems mentioned are also important to consider. It is likely that all of these poems were the work of Edward de Vere
She dallied with many, but left all and sundry in the dust, and her closest advisers/Court no doubt made a din and cry about Oxford. Love this format, Prechter is for me right at the tip of the spear in this field.
Totally just a suggestion as I know you are both very busy people...BUT how incredibly wonderful would it be if you made this a limited run podcast - Oxford's Voices with Bob & Phoebe!
Thanks so much for the suggestion! I think since the response has been so positive we will aim to do another sit down together in the winter and release more content then, in the meantime I’m going to be making a bunch of new content :)
There is a common thread, a golden thread that seems to get only summary treatment by most. But to those who KNOW the white Queen and love her, there is a vital transcendent sub text to this drama. Minerva, Athena, Brittania. She has many names. The lady of the lake. No man who has seen her remains unchanged by her beauty. Her hair a vibrant Rose gold in colour. The Bards all speak of her with a reverence that is absolutely real. It is not imagined. She is a real person. More importantly she represents and lives as a true warrior Queen. She is both revered and feared by her enemies. If you need a recent description of her she is Galadriel. Have I met her ? Yes. I have known her for a very long time. She is and has always been the constant in the life and legends of England. The true and everlasting, immortal White Goddess. Highly recomend the book by Robert Graves. An excellent primer in the code language of the Bards.
I think “Shakespeare” was Oxford, both Sydneys, and Henry Neville, he was in ER’s government, and was a friend of Southampton. They were in the Tower together after the Essex Rebellion.
I think Bob's evidence of Oxford's affair with Elizabeth is very strong and explains a lot both in Shakespeare's plays and in Oxford's life (e.g. the timing of his trip to Italy). I also agree with Bob that the prince Tudor theory is not really convincing, even if Southampton may have been Elizabeth's illegitimate son. But he could not have been Oxford's son because the sonnets are clearly erotic and Oxford would never want Southampton to become his son-in-law if he was also his son!
No. Under her regime one of his relatives was executed and he never wrote any eulogies for her after her death. The Virgin Queen would not have relations with her own nobles let alone an 'upstart crow' struggling to get a heraldic creat for his family.
Shakespeare's Sonnet 130 seems like a rewrite of Oxford's poem sometimes called "White And Red" Shakespeare uses the same imagery the Oxford used, and Oxford used the same ABABCC rhyme scheme that Shakespeare used in Venus and Adonis. Shakespeare's version is better, but it comes off as a grown man revisiting a poem he had written when he was much younger. Sonnet 130 My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun; Coral is far more red than her lips' red; If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun; If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head. I have seen roses damasked, red and white, But no such roses see I in her cheeks; And in some perfumes is there more delight Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks. I love to hear her speak, yet well I know That music hath a far more pleasing sound; I grant I never saw a goddess go; My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground. And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare As any she belied with false compare. White and Red What cunning can express The favour of her face, To whom in this distress I do appeal for grace? A thousand Cupids fly About her gentle eye: From whence each throws a dart That kindleth soft sweet fire Within my sighing heart, Possessed by desire. No sweeter life I try Than in her love to die. The lily in the field, That glories in his white, For pureness now must yield And render up his right. Heaven pictured in her face Doth promise joy and grace. Fair Cynthia's silver light, That beats on running streams, Compares not with her white, Whose hairs are all sunbeams. Her virtues so do shine, As day unto mine eyne. With this there is a red Exceeds the damask rose, Which in her cheeks is spread, Whence every favour grows. In sky there is no star, That she surmounts not far. When Phoebus from the bed Of Thetis doth arise, The morning blushing red In fair carnation wise, He shows it in her face, As queen of every grace. This pleasant lily white, This taint of roseate red, This Cynthia's silver light, This sweet fair Dea spread, These sunbeams in mine eye; These beauties make me die. Shakespeare might not be Edward de Vere, but if not then he definitely read de Vere's poem and tried to fix it, which seems far less likely than the two names belonging to the same person.
This is impressive - well done Bob Prechter and thank you again Phoebe!
I agree with Phoebe, Oxford's Voices is so thoroughly researched and really does come up with a massive body of well-referenced evidence. Anyone who dismisses 'Oxford's Voices' without reading it can be dismissed without further ado.
Thanks for watching!!
Phoebe, I just want to second Bob's comments at the end about your positive energy and your contributions to this topic. I find it a fascinating mystery and I've learned so much from studying it about the history of the times and how people back then thought and acted. When the dam finally breaks, everyone (even the Stratfordians) will have a ball exploring the mystery and I believe your efforts are helping bring that time closer.
I third that! ❤
Thank you!
I am truly gobsmacked. Thank you again for sharing this work. I absolutely have to get Oxford’s Voices. I’ve long thought there must still be an extant body of Oxford’s work, so this is such a treat. And what scholarship! I’m also completely chuffed that you mentioned Dowland at the end. I’m a guitarist and lutenist, my period of speciality is Elizabethan (in terms of the lute), and my hero is John Dowland. Even though I know full well just how great a lutenist he was, I’ve never believed he’d composed all those great tunes, the lyrics of which are brilliant. (Aside: I love your use of ‘Can She Excuse’). So I was thrilled that you mention this. In any case, you’ve now given me plenty of catching-up to do. You’ve made my year, cheers!
Wow what an amazing comment! This is so wonderful to hear. We are putting together an Oxford’s Voices Theater Festival on zoom and want to feature some of De Vere’s songs in it, maybe you could play something for us on the lute?? That’s amazing that you always intuited the truth :) I am obsessed with the Earl of Essex’s gaillard and play it all the time 😭 Please join the Oxford’s Allonyms Facebook group, or email me at phoebenir@gmail.com
@@phoebe_devere Oh wow, I would be honoured, thank you! Unfortunately, the problem I face is that I just sold my (two!) lutes in order to have my *dream* lute built. And it won't be ready till sometime late in 2025. However, once I have it in hand, if the offer still hands, I would sincerely love the opportunity. Again, I truly love your work; I think what people such as yourself, Robert Prechter, and the SOF do should be required viewing. Cheers!
@@thormusique pls be in touch :)
How far this little candle throws its beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world (Adapted)
What an amazing story 'Oxford Voices' tells! It is a tale that defies imagination, and is only brought to light by Robert Prechter's epic endeavour.
💯
Love your work, Phoebe and Bob....bless.
Thank you so much! 💖
Also, if Henry Wriothesley was not a Tudor prince, then why when he committed treason against the crown, was he rewarded with land and money. He lived out the rest of his days in wealth and peace. A strange fate for someone who was guilty of treason. Why is it called the Essex rebellion and not the Southampton rebellion. Also, the Queen travelled to his school to see him graduate, what other young man did she do this for? Every work of Shake-Speare was dedicated to Henry Wriothesley up until the rebellion, then his name is buried. A deal was struck.
Good points!
There is a 'Bridal Song' in 'Two Noble Kinsmen' (by Shakespeare/John Fletcher - more likely the latter as sole author) which includes a verse ostensibly about Spring that opens with: 'Primrose, first-born child of Ver'. Given the proclivity toward 'double-entendres' among authors of the period, the entire stanza may be read as alluding to the 'little trophy' of an infant Oxford, consistent with the hypothesis of a relationship between the 17th earl and QE1.
Keep the cut aways coming. A brilliant addition to the talking head format.
Thanks!
I found this very interesting. I need to get off my duff and get started with "the voices" directly.
Thanks for another intriguing video with Robert. His book - long though it be - is well-researched and has so much information it is an encyclopedia of the English Literary Renaissance.
I am with Robert in that I am agnostic about the queen having any affairs, let alone with de Vere. I believe she would not have allowed herself to be pregnant since she was accused of being a royal bastard (RB). During the five years she was under house arrest by her half-sister Mary, there was the real possibility that she would have been assassinated because she had so little power at that time. We envision her as someone who was all-powerful, but that was not always true.
Her hold on the throne was precarious for her entire reign. Catholics wanted her dead or at least deposed in favour of a Catholic ruler. Rebels at home and across the sea were constantly plotting against her, not the least of whom was the King of Spain. The Pope excommunicated her and some of her Puritan members of Parliament wanted her to tighten her grip on the church of England and make the kingdom into a stronger police state than it already was. Any RBs would have made things worse.
I believe that some of de Vere's earlier poems were possibly that of a courtier who had a dalliance with the queen, but many younger nobles of the time also wrote flattering poems and dedications to her. So, his amorous verse to her may have been either wishful thinking by a young man infatuated with her or merely something other poets were doing at the time; imagining an affair with the most glamorous and most powerful woman in the kingdom. Even Penelope Rich didn't have the same allure the queen had. The fact that she was single made things more enticing.
However, Robert presents compelling evidence that she may have had an affair with de Vere that deserves closer scrutiny. Yet, I cannot escape the feeling that much of it is fantasy and young poets wanting to have an affair with her. Think of the millions of teens and young adults today who imagine affairs with the latest musical or movie superstars and you get the general idea. But would she have had any children by him? Would she have risked all by giving birth to an RB after she spent so many years with that hanging over her own head?
To me, the logistics of keeping any RBs hidden make them a near-impossibility because it would have taken at least 100 people to have kept any single RBs secret. And who would have monitored them but another 100 people. Then those people would have had to be monitored, and so on. Given she had hand maidens and Maids of Honour who were not as discrete as needed for such a secret - Anne Vavasour comes to mind - would she have allowed herself to become pregnant? She would also have thought ahead to the possibility that the RBs could have eventually been exposed for who they were or when they were of the age of majority and capable of plotting to take the throne by force therefore it is likely that there were no RBs. Both scenarios would have caused chaos in England, causing almost as much strife as the Wars of the Roses.
Those are just some of the reasons I believe she never had affairs which produced any RBs. As for the numerous sexual alliances with nobles like de Vere and Dudley, that is another story.
I will comment on a line Robert quotes at 6:35. William Cecil was known to have had an extensive network of spies rivalling that of Sir Francis Walsingham the queen's official spymaster, so the reference to Argus could have been directed at him since he was constantly spying on de Vere. He hired spies to accompany de Vere while he traveled the continent which may be the subject of Sonnet 61: "Is it thy spirit [spy] that thou sends't from thee / So farre from home into my deeds to prye / To find out shames and idle hours in me...?". I believe this sonnet was written in the years 1575-76 while he was on the continent. The date of publication of the Gorgeous Gallery fits this idea since the events would have been topical for the courtiers who made up the audience of the collection.
Robert, however, reads into the line a preposition. He reads: "... forbid us [to] meet" (6:37) whereas the line reads "forbid us meat" which could easily be an allusion to the time when William Cecil wanted to pass legislation forbidding everyone from eating red meat several times per week. If I recall, in Hamlet Polonius was called a "fish monger" which matches this allusion. That being said, the line could mean both ideas.
The problem with getting to the bottom of this is the fact there are no personal letters by de Vere on his personal life which would give us insight into what happened between him and the queen. All we have is innuendo, court gossip and the writing which may or may not be about an actual affair.
You and Robert have done an excellent job presenting a case for one with de Vere. This video will require at least three more views before I can gather it all in.
One final note. The "turtle" in the poem The Phoenix and the Turtle (22:19) is a turtle dove, not a marine reptile. Many people get this confused.
Thanks for these thoughts!
@@phoebe_devere Always here to help our fellow Oxfordians.
You are assuming people are always logical in thinking. It's not true - we are emotional beings and lust can easily take over. Once they are laised it would become routine. She likely had a similar relationship with Dudley, ironically.
As for keeping things quiet, would you dare go against the monarch in Tudor England? Exactly
@@joecurran2811 I actually incorporate emotion into my argument against the queen having RB's. Having gone through house arrest for half a decade, she would not have wanted any of her blood to have to go through the same turmoil and stress. It would be a mother's instinct to keep her children safe and had she any children out of wedlock neither they nor she would have been safe. As for keeping things quiet, in the day to day life of adoptive parents of the sort we are talking about (the nobility), it would be easy for someone to let something slip out. I estimate that for each RB there would have to be something on the order of 50 people to keep the secret intact and perhaps double that to ensure nobody leaked anything. It does not make practical sense to assume that the RB's identity would be kept for 20 or more years. But you are right: who would dare to risk all by going against the wishes of the supreme monarch of England? Plenty of people tried but look where they ended up: dead or exiled.
@@CulinarySpy You should see the notes I am taking (you will receive some today). It's odd that we have to say "orthodox" Oxfordians since, according to academics, we are all "heretics" for trying to understand the evidence they have been looking at for generations. Some day we will be vindicated as more scholars outside of the English departments (and within) will take a second, third, and fourth look at what we clearly see is evidence for de Vere's mighty hand in raising the bar for the English language. Between him and John Florio, the language rose above that of most European tongues.
Perhaps that is one reason why so many people around the world today are learning it. That, plus the fact the internet has given the language world-wide distribution outside of former English colonies. Whatever history says of "Shakespeare" the fact remains his plays are the most produced in history. At one time in the 1980s it was estimated that somewhere on the planet a production of one of his plays was being performed every two minutes.
Bravo to both of you!
So what was Elizabeth doing in the early 1570s? Did “another man” come into her life? Did international matters, eg, the whole marriage to Spain thing, influence her behavior? Or was it psychological? Perhaps, the more she experienced Oxford’s love, the more terrified she became. Men on thrones chopped off women’s heads. Repeatedly. It may have been subconscious, but how could she not fear that? Thanks for this brilliant series.
I think when there was a baby in the picture things got too serious and she had to distance herself to retain her solo reign. I highly recommend watching Hank whittemore’s presentation “shake-speare’s treason” here on RUclips! It’s life altering work in my opinion
@@phoebe_devereI've nearly finished that! It's fascinating and the pieces fit really well!
What is the movie at 27:25?
It’s a key and peele sketch about Shakespeare and Marlowe
Oxford's 'Shakespeare' will always be the greatest, but now you know the rest of the story! (as Paul Harvey used to say).
Short answer....seems likely
Regarding the Tudor Rose Theory,, I recommend to Bob Prechter, the second part of David Shakespeare's discussion of this possibility:
ruclips.net/video/duL5zJwnRX4/видео.html.
In Particular,, toward the end,. when poems by Thomas Nash and George Peale are considered. The Shakespeare Sonnet poems mentioned are also important to consider. It is likely that all of these poems were the work of Edward de Vere
She dallied with many, but left all and sundry in the dust, and her closest advisers/Court no doubt made a din and cry about Oxford. Love this format, Prechter is for me right at the tip of the spear in this field.
🔥
I see what you did there
Brilliant-
Totally just a suggestion as I know you are both very busy people...BUT how incredibly wonderful would it be if you made this a limited run podcast - Oxford's Voices with Bob & Phoebe!
Thanks so much for the suggestion! I think since the response has been so positive we will aim to do another sit down together in the winter and release more content then, in the meantime I’m going to be making a bunch of new content :)
There is a common thread, a golden thread that seems to get only summary treatment by most. But to those who KNOW the white Queen and love her, there is a vital transcendent sub text to this drama. Minerva, Athena, Brittania. She has many names. The lady of the lake.
No man who has seen her remains unchanged by her beauty. Her hair a vibrant Rose gold in colour.
The Bards all speak of her with a reverence that is absolutely real. It is not imagined. She is a real person. More importantly she represents and lives as a true warrior Queen. She is both revered and feared by her enemies.
If you need a recent description of her she is Galadriel. Have I met her ?
Yes. I have known her for a very long time. She is and has always been the constant in the life and legends of England. The true and everlasting, immortal White Goddess.
Highly recomend the book by Robert Graves. An excellent primer in the code language of the Bards.
powerful
Well she seemed to like younger men
Richard jones, published "greensleeves" in 1580, any connection ?
Oxfordians have floated that theory around for a while but Bob says that it isn’t by Oxford. Thanks for the comment!
Could these lyrics of John Dowland's Lacrimae have been written by Edward de Vere, do you think?.
ruclips.net/video/8KDL0J0E-s4/видео.html
I think “Shakespeare” was Oxford, both Sydneys, and Henry Neville, he was in ER’s government, and was a friend of Southampton. They were in the Tower together after the Essex Rebellion.
Oh yeah-also Queen Elizabeth I.
I think Bob's evidence of Oxford's affair with Elizabeth is very strong and explains a lot both in Shakespeare's plays and in Oxford's life (e.g. the timing of his trip to Italy). I also agree with Bob that the prince Tudor theory is not really convincing, even if Southampton may have been Elizabeth's illegitimate son. But he could not have been Oxford's son because the sonnets are clearly erotic and Oxford would never want Southampton to become his son-in-law if he was also his son!
No
No. Under her regime one of his relatives was executed and he never wrote any eulogies for her after her death. The Virgin Queen would not have relations with her own nobles let alone an 'upstart crow' struggling to get a heraldic creat for his family.
No. He had a very sordid affair with Gwynneth Paltrow.
but where is the shakespearian style iand quality n Oxford s poetry ?
A lot of what we have in his name is juvenalia. It was actually well regarded before Thomas J. Looney proposed him as Shakespeare.
Shakespeare's Sonnet 130 seems like a rewrite of Oxford's poem sometimes called "White And Red"
Shakespeare uses the same imagery the Oxford used, and Oxford used the same ABABCC rhyme scheme that Shakespeare used in Venus and Adonis.
Shakespeare's version is better, but it comes off as a grown man revisiting a poem he had written when he was much younger.
Sonnet 130
My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground.
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.
White and Red
What cunning can express
The favour of her face,
To whom in this distress
I do appeal for grace?
A thousand Cupids fly
About her gentle eye:
From whence each throws a dart
That kindleth soft sweet fire
Within my sighing heart,
Possessed by desire.
No sweeter life I try
Than in her love to die.
The lily in the field,
That glories in his white,
For pureness now must yield
And render up his right.
Heaven pictured in her face
Doth promise joy and grace.
Fair Cynthia's silver light,
That beats on running streams,
Compares not with her white,
Whose hairs are all sunbeams.
Her virtues so do shine,
As day unto mine eyne.
With this there is a red
Exceeds the damask rose,
Which in her cheeks is spread,
Whence every favour grows.
In sky there is no star,
That she surmounts not far.
When Phoebus from the bed
Of Thetis doth arise,
The morning blushing red
In fair carnation wise,
He shows it in her face,
As queen of every grace.
This pleasant lily white,
This taint of roseate red,
This Cynthia's silver light,
This sweet fair Dea spread,
These sunbeams in mine eye;
These beauties make me die.
Shakespeare might not be Edward de Vere, but if not then he definitely read de Vere's poem and tried to fix it, which seems far less likely than the two names belonging to the same person.
Shakespeare is Shakespeare.
Period.
Bro you came to the wronggg party
It's that time of the month for Stephen...Period.
@@phoebe_deveretrue