I used Varget and 4895 in my 308 and 168 gr. Sierra match bullets. Both worked well, but the Varget is a little more temperature stable. My 100 yd groups measured like .345 to .380. You had to look close to see more than the single hole on 5 shot groups. More than once my spotting wife would say, you're missing the target there's still only one hole. lol On a Rem 700 VSSF factory barrel and action, custom stock, trigger, bedding ETC.
That's a good shooter right there. My custom 6.5 I just finished building with the 2nd random load i reloaded with hornady 140gr eld match and h4350 with only 25 shots through my barrel was measuring at .481" with a 5 shot group and im not the best shooter. Im pretty stoked to do some load development with it. It's the first time shooting both 6.5 cm and a bolt gun, so it'll take some getting used to. I def have high hopes she'll be a shooter if I can learn to do my part, which is def the weakest link of the combo.
I’d stick with the load that had the lowest Extreme Spread, and tweak neck tension, if you want to add more powder use a drop tube, and also consider annealing case necks
I've shot and recorded over 1000 rounds now, since I've got garmin. this was while developing loads for two f-class rifles, a few prairie dog guns, and a few hunting rifles. That's 9 rifles total. I've tried following the low ES groups, and it has not always worked out for me. I have found that velocities are random also. you do not know where you are gonna be velocity wise for said load in any given shot. your first three or five shots could be on one end of the range that it is going to shoot overall. the next time out, it could be on both ends of the range and show a big ES. you have to shoot a load more than once. for me, i have come to the conclusion that three or four five shot groups at 100 yards is needed to show im on the right path for my load, and I use a couple 10 shot groups at 300 yards to really see how consistent my load is and to make any determinations.
you mentioned book loads. It's important to know that the velocity the book list is where max pressure is, not necessarily the charge weight listed. pressure equals velocity, this is per hodgdon, bryan litz (applied ballistics), and hornady. there are things that affect powder that will change how much is needed. the humidity content of the powder being one of the biggest ones. so if said company does their test with a 70% humidity and you store your powder in 30% humidity, test has shown there is gonna be a big difference velocity. go listen to applied ballistics podcast #62 i think it is.
Group 1, there are three almost touching and two shots to the right. Group 2, Three touching and two low. Group 3, Two touching and the others look almost random. There is an issue somewhere. Something it loose, The scope parallax is an issue, or you are doing something that is not the same each time. You should see point of impact shits. Look for a place where the rifle shoots good and to the same POI relative to your point of aim. If you get three is a row, go to the middle power charge and do a bullet seating test. The first this to work on is finding out what is causing the double grouping. Fliers are random, and don't hit in the same spot. You could be getting a POI shift when changing power settings. Use a long drop tube to get more powder. Remember that five shot groups are very small sample sizes.
I sent in my scope to get fixed. I know it was what caused to the in poi shift on the second the last when changing magnification so im hoping something with the scope is also the cause of the 2 groupings things. Its frustrating cause I take my time and do the same thing on every shot, and it's like no matter what, they split into two groups. We will see when I get my scope back
@@Reloaderscodex Not only is it very frustrating to have an issue like that, theses days it's very expensive. All of your data you have collected really means nothing. That really sucks. I've had it happen too. I believe if someone says they have nearer had a problem like that, it's just a matter of time.
@N5KDA Yeah, it def blows, and dont know if it's something I'm doing or something else until I get my scope back and find out if it's me or the hardware. If it's me I have zero clues as to how to fix it. I guess ill have to save my money and take a long range class somewhere but that's so expensive so idk
The magnification changing POI is an issue that should be addressed. Maybe not setting Parallax well or defective optic. The 2/3 groups could possibly be something like heartbeat but I really think its more of one just trying to find a pattern. In a 5 shot group, the minimum to have touching is 2 & 3, if its 4 touching then it's a "flyer" if none then you don't see anything. If it were something mechanical/physical like the scope or heartbeat, I'd believe you'd see it on most, if not all, not just some. If you were shooting groups of 10+, I don't think you'd ever see a 50/50 split group. (Unless of course it really is physical/mechanical fault)
How do you maintain a consistent seating depth with such light neck tension??? I noticed my 77gr SMKs were sliding out of the case .005 (+/-.002) from the momentum of the bolt clambering the cartridge. I posted this question on another video, but figured I have better odds of picking your brain on your most recent.
point of impacts shift with different loads. It's probably not your scope. Im also guessing the large ES is not because of your scale. thats just what certain loads do also. Are you petty new to reloading?
Yeah, I've been doing it for about a year. Im self "taught," lol, and I'm the only person I know who reloads, so I've just learned from reading online and watching RUclips videos. At this point, I know the basics and but im learning slowly through trial and error. Mostly error, lol.
@Reloaderscodex haha yeah, I had to learn by trial and errors too. I started in 2003 and didn't have all the resources that are out there now. It was painful, haha. if you haven't, i would pay the $10 and listen to the applied ballistics podcast. that will give you a basic idea of how things work and an explanation of what you're seeing. although i don't agree 100% of what he says is the cause of small groups. I think he has come to the wrong conclusion because we don't fully understand what is going on with the barrel. im looking forward to more videos.
I've looked but it's hard to find Lapua brass so far. Once I get a .223 barrel for for my custom bolt gun I'll probably only use premium brass if I can find any. Im about to send in my vortex to get fixed. I wonder what the neck would change poi right just from 14x to 15x magnification. Crazy to me
Hey! I figured out why you're velocities suck so bad! I looked at my notes and double checked your sources.... YOU'RE USING THE WRONG DATA! You're using 223 data, not 5.56 data. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you brand new to reloading? I haven't heard you say in your videos, but if you are, mention it in videos, and it'll help us help you. Some people might be holding back because they don't want to be "rude" by telling you something that they think you already know. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Yeah fairly new. About 7 months. Im all for ppl telling what I'm doing wrong. I usually use hodgdon website as my reference. What's a good place to start if they're low?
@@gc5Hayward that's not how reloading works.... all powders and their charge weights are different, so you can't just pull one, weigh the powder, drop a few grains and work up. Stuff like that is how you have accidental rapid disassembly of your gun and you.
SFP you change your zoom you change your point of aim. FFP it will keep it accurate do to the reticle being in front of the zoom glass. So SFP you need to zero it for that zoom power.
![Gun Snobs HATE this Rifle!!! [With Full Ammo Test]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ucutmv7RJ8k/mqdefault.jpg)
![Kodak Black - Versatile 4 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VcP_1Ua__vY/mqdefault.jpg)
THis has been my go to load for 1in 9 heavy barrels for 10 years. It's like a lazer for me. Once you work out OBT, that is...
I used Varget and 4895 in my 308 and 168 gr. Sierra match bullets. Both worked well, but the Varget is a little more temperature stable. My 100 yd groups measured like .345 to .380. You had to look close to see more than the single hole on 5 shot groups. More than once my spotting wife would say, you're missing the target there's still only one hole. lol On a Rem 700 VSSF factory barrel and action, custom stock, trigger, bedding ETC.
That's a good shooter right there. My custom 6.5 I just finished building with the 2nd random load i reloaded with hornady 140gr eld match and h4350 with only 25 shots through my barrel was measuring at .481" with a 5 shot group and im not the best shooter. Im pretty stoked to do some load development with it. It's the first time shooting both 6.5 cm and a bolt gun, so it'll take some getting used to. I def have high hopes she'll be a shooter if I can learn to do my part, which is def the weakest link of the combo.
I’d stick with the load that had the lowest Extreme Spread, and tweak neck tension, if you want to add more powder use a drop tube, and also consider annealing case necks
I anneal every after every firing. I totally forgot about drop tubes. I'lll have to get one.
I've shot and recorded over 1000 rounds now, since I've got garmin. this was while developing loads for two f-class rifles, a few prairie dog guns, and a few hunting rifles. That's 9 rifles total. I've tried following the low ES groups, and it has not always worked out for me. I have found that velocities are random also. you do not know where you are gonna be velocity wise for said load in any given shot.
your first three or five shots could be on one end of the range that it is going to shoot overall. the next time out, it could be on both ends of the range and show a big ES. you have to shoot a load more than once.
for me, i have come to the conclusion that three or four five shot groups at 100 yards is needed to show im on the right path for my load, and I use a couple 10 shot groups at 300 yards to really see how consistent my load is and to make any determinations.
2700+ f/s for 24.0 grains isn’t that slow. Also Lots of powder can change +/- 5% which is 100-150 f/s
you mentioned book loads. It's important to know that the velocity the book list is where max pressure is, not necessarily the charge weight listed. pressure equals velocity, this is per hodgdon, bryan litz (applied ballistics), and hornady.
there are things that affect powder that will change how much is needed. the humidity content of the powder being one of the biggest ones. so if said company does their test with a 70% humidity and you store your powder in 30% humidity, test has shown there is gonna be a big difference velocity. go listen to applied ballistics podcast #62 i think it is.
Thanks I'll do that
Group 1, there are three almost touching and two shots to the right. Group 2, Three touching and two low. Group 3, Two touching and the others look almost random. There is an issue somewhere. Something it loose, The scope parallax is an issue, or you are doing something that is not the same each time. You should see point of impact shits. Look for a place where the rifle shoots good and to the same POI relative to your point of aim. If you get three is a row, go to the middle power charge and do a bullet seating test. The first this to work on is finding out what is causing the double grouping. Fliers are random, and don't hit in the same spot. You could be getting a POI shift when changing power settings. Use a long drop tube to get more powder. Remember that five shot groups are very small sample sizes.
I sent in my scope to get fixed. I know it was what caused to the in poi shift on the second the last when changing magnification so im hoping something with the scope is also the cause of the 2 groupings things. Its frustrating cause I take my time and do the same thing on every shot, and it's like no matter what, they split into two groups. We will see when I get my scope back
@@Reloaderscodex Not only is it very frustrating to have an issue like that, theses days it's very expensive. All of your data you have collected really means nothing. That really sucks. I've had it happen too. I believe if someone says they have nearer had a problem like that, it's just a matter of time.
@N5KDA Yeah, it def blows, and dont know if it's something I'm doing or something else until I get my scope back and find out if it's me or the hardware. If it's me I have zero clues as to how to fix it. I guess ill have to save my money and take a long range class somewhere but that's so expensive so idk
The magnification changing POI is an issue that should be addressed. Maybe not setting Parallax well or defective optic.
The 2/3 groups could possibly be something like heartbeat but I really think its more of one just trying to find a pattern. In a 5 shot group, the minimum to have touching is 2 & 3, if its 4 touching then it's a "flyer" if none then you don't see anything. If it were something mechanical/physical like the scope or heartbeat, I'd believe you'd see it on most, if not all, not just some. If you were shooting groups of 10+, I don't think you'd ever see a 50/50 split group. (Unless of course it really is physical/mechanical fault)
I actually boxing up my scope to send it in to get fixed. Just get an email back from vortex and they'll take it under warranty so that's good.
How do you maintain a consistent seating depth with such light neck tension??? I noticed my 77gr SMKs were sliding out of the case .005 (+/-.002) from the momentum of the bolt clambering the cartridge. I posted this question on another video, but figured I have better odds of picking your brain on your most recent.
What are you using for your neck tension?
point of impacts shift with different loads. It's probably not your scope.
Im also guessing the large ES is not because of your scale. thats just what certain loads do also.
Are you petty new to reloading?
Yeah, I've been doing it for about a year. Im self "taught," lol, and I'm the only person I know who reloads, so I've just learned from reading online and watching RUclips videos. At this point, I know the basics and but im learning slowly through trial and error. Mostly error, lol.
@Reloaderscodex haha yeah, I had to learn by trial and errors too. I started in 2003 and didn't have all the resources that are out there now. It was painful, haha. if you haven't, i would pay the $10 and listen to the applied ballistics podcast. that will give you a basic idea of how things work and an explanation of what you're seeing. although i don't agree 100% of what he says is the cause of small groups. I think he has come to the wrong conclusion because we don't fully understand what is going on with the barrel.
im looking forward to more videos.
@reloadingfun thanks ill check out that podcast
You should be using good brass. Like Lapua or Nosler. Although, it's impossible to find Lapua brass for .223/5.56 right now. Idk about Nosler.
I've looked but it's hard to find Lapua brass so far. Once I get a .223 barrel for for my custom bolt gun I'll probably only use premium brass if I can find any. Im about to send in my vortex to get fixed. I wonder what the neck would change poi right just from 14x to 15x magnification. Crazy to me
Nosler ain't in the same league as lapua adg or peterson
I don't like Nosler brass. Starline is not bad brass considering how limited the market is now.
Hey! I figured out why you're velocities suck so bad! I looked at my notes and double checked your sources.... YOU'RE USING THE WRONG DATA! You're using 223 data, not 5.56 data. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you brand new to reloading? I haven't heard you say in your videos, but if you are, mention it in videos, and it'll help us help you. Some people might be holding back because they don't want to be "rude" by telling you something that they think you already know. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Yeah fairly new. About 7 months. Im all for ppl telling what I'm doing wrong. I usually use hodgdon website as my reference. What's a good place to start if they're low?
@joearledge1 what's a good place to get 5.56 load data cause everywhere I go it's always. 223.
Pull a 5.56mm round and measure powder; adjust your ladder test down with the info and use that lower charge weight as the starting point.
Im not sure im following...Pull which 5.56 round? I def need to go up in powder and get into 5.56 velocity/pressure.
@@gc5Hayward that's not how reloading works.... all powders and their charge weights are different, so you can't just pull one, weigh the powder, drop a few grains and work up. Stuff like that is how you have accidental rapid disassembly of your gun and you.
SFP you change your zoom you change your point of aim. FFP it will keep it accurate do to the reticle being in front of the zoom glass.
So SFP you need to zero it for that zoom power.
Yeah its a FFP scope. Not a fan of SFP