Koi treatment for Trichodina Potassium permanganate (PP) and Hydrogen Peroxide
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2024
- This is a how to video on treatment for Trichodina. before i treated i saw under my microscope a outbreak of trichodina so i know i needed to treat i will be doing this 3 times once then again 4 days later then again 4-7days later this is the only way i am able to prevent another outbreak for a longer period of time.
Unfortunately Trichodina is very hard to get rid of and it always pops up a few times a year sometimes worse than others i might add and some people will never notice it even though they will have it if you look hard enough you will find it on any fish. you just have to manage the numbers rather than total eradication.
remember once the PP has gone brown in colour .it is spent and not doing anything except staining your pond brown so why not use hydrogen peroxide to get rid of it and it also makes your pond sparkle.
it is always best to have hydrogen peroxide available when treating PP as anything can go wrong. just because nothing happens last time doesn't mean this time some fishes wont have a huge problem with it. You can never predict what will happen and hydrogen peroxide is a really cheap insurance plan for any issues, its also handy if you are having oxygen issues as it adds oxygen to the water..
Hi Adam Thanks for the well explained video it helped me how to use PP. Ive got a 12 month old 7000 litre 1500 gallon pond Used 10 g and after about 40mins the colour was not maintaining the pink look think this was due to my blanket weed problems , so I mixed another 1g and then this achieved the 4hr time.After this put 170ml of HP in .I had been using formalachite on the whole pond and this kept destroying my filter bacteria then nitrates climbing then putting a bomb in but after scraping a fish found that id had Chillodonela, after 2 had developed red blemishes and after researching found that the PP was the answer but wasnt confident in using it glad I watched your video because I hadnt bought any HP to neutralise the PP
Thanks Andy
BTW your pool setup is amazing
Thanks. hopefully tha Trichodina is gone now and the blemishes get better. make sure you keep cleaning you filter system a lot to avoid dirt build up for a week or so and you will be fine. as any Trichodina that survived the PP will be hiding in the dirt so cleaning the filter will send them down the drain.
Thanks again
Adam
Adam - thank you for this helpful video (many others as well) - I’m doing my 2019 PP treatment on my 3000 gallon pond today and reviewed your video before starting as a reference - I only use the treatment if I see my bigger fish start to jump & breach - I haven’t seen any sore or discoloring this year - 2 yrs ago a couple of our Kio started having fin damage and the PP treatment is the only thing I tried that helped. Those fish are healthy & fine since then. Thank you thank you
Hi Adam . I always come back to watch your video just to make sure i am doing this right . Your advice never fails me !! Kindest regards
Hi Adam I’ve finally been able to subscribe. Really good videos btw and very useful - pretty much watched them all! I do have a question for you though towards the end of summer a couple of my fish developed what I can only describe as white blisters all on their tails and side. I treated them as directed by a local shop with Malachite green with formalin after dosing and weeks passed nothing has changed.
I don’t have a microscope yet so can’t to a scrape to determine what it is but I do know is it’s not koi pox. All I can put it down to is some sort of fungal infection.
Water parameters all testing ok but any advice would be great as spring is not far of and it’s definitely spreading to other fish
Sorry Adam , do i switch off the UV if the filter is running during the treatment ? some say yes others say no , but looking at your pond and fish you are definately an expert on this . Should the water literally clear up that quick as you put the HP in ? Your help would be greatly appreciated Adam .
Hi Adam,
Thanks for the video. I have a 3000gallon pond and I plan to pp for the first time. I'm heated with air source heat pump, nexus 220 and E.A 110 u.v , What dosage pp will I need also what dosage H.P if using 6%. I Just wanted to double check amounts before I start. Thanks keep up the videos theyve been very helpful so far.
when it goes brown its nolonger affective may aswell add the neutraliser then no point waiting
Hi mate, been following your videos since my first pond build last summer and you've really helped me out along the way with bits so thanks. First winter and noticed one koi and my mirror have some fin rot/ulcers and redness on body so done usual salt bath and water change and water tests OK, tried scrapes to the best of my skills but not found anythin, have used acriflavin and see how that goes for a week and if no further improvement will do some pp, just wondering what dosage for hydrogen peroxide for 2400 gal pond? Cheers pal leon
3% HP, 52ML per 1000L, do conversion to gallon plz
Are you treatment pp with stugeon..?
hi Adam did you carry out a water change immediately after treatment please or just your normal routine water changes ,cheers
Hi Adam great video I have some young koi about 4 months old 5-15cm long, I was wanting to do a PP treatment some of them seem to have inflamed gills and chewing fast Ive used Prazi but no success is 4 months to young to use this medicine on koi
Great video mate , thanks for the info
Hi Adam, I have very high Nitrates problem, I have put a few water lettuce and 80 percent water change but still very high ! any recommendation?
Hi Adam. Just started to watch your channel and really enjoy it as i see you know your shit with it. I just treated my pond as you did. It stayed purple for about 3hrs so then i added the hydrogen peroxide. I did a scrape on 3 fish. They all showed Trichodina but nothing else. After treatment they are still flashing. Do i do it again? If so when? Thanks
PP can cause them to flash in some cases ive seen no signes of discomfort in the fish even though there is a lot of trich on them but when you put PP in they go crazy.
i would give it 10 days do a scrape if you do find something re treat with PP if you don't find anything its optional but consider treating again anyway.
you need to do some water changes before re treating as the HP with still be in the pond so if you put PP in now it wont do anything.
@@AdamJulyan thank you. I also added a cloverleaf heater same as yours last month but mine had the led light to say it was on already haha.
Hi Adam . great video , please tell me do you run your filters while the PP is in for the 4hours ? do you then clean out your filters after doi g the Peroxide ? i have a30volume (9%) Peroxide what dosage should i use ml per 1000litres in my pond ?
WIth PP Keep your filter on because the parasite will also be in your filter and PP does not effect it much. Turn any UV lights off and for 9% HP you need 23.5ml per 1000litre of water once the HP is added to the PP the water will be clear in a few mins.
Adam
Adam Julyan thank you so much !!!!!
So using that stuff for ich. you only have to treat the water for 4 hours?
how much HP for a 2160 gallon pond please.
love your videos 👍
+Richard Hodkinson sorry for the late reply its 245ml but thats for imperial gallons not american gallons.
Adam
Hey Adam love your channel I have a question tho. if I were treating for ich can I treat all the fish together or are there any negatives in doing so. I don't have a quarantine yet but willing to do make that investment if advised.
Hi, Thanks. usually if one fish has it they all will and it will be in the pond, you should use a microscope to be sure it's ich before treating as the treatment is a bit harsh. I would use formalin and malachite green this will kill any ich quite fast. although if its cold dont use it, less then 15DegC is not ideal.
Adam
I use garlic and salt to treat ich,works a treat in my aquarium
just wondering what you are using for lighting this pond
Hey Adam question I noticed a red sore appearing on my koi head. Looks like the one in your video,do you recommend the pp treatment?
johnocch1 i don't think Trichodina would affect the head or i have never seen it. its probably headbutted something and injured its self if it gets worse treat the wound with iodine. never use PP unless absolutely sure its Trichodina. also check the other fish for similar issues, if its just the one then its probably done something daft.
How often do you do this treatment ? Just wondering if this should be somewhat of a " maintenance " treatment at least once a year ? Would you recommend doing this ?
what ratio of hydrogen peroxide would you use per 1000 gallons? I would be using 6% hydrogen peroxide to treat my join. thanks
How are you getting parasites in an indoor pond? I thought parasites enter our pond from birds etc etc. Really confused?
Hi adam
do i have to shut my filtration down while I treat my pond with Potassium Permanganate as the filter is all combined in with the pond I have 4 large air stones going as I'm using a blagdon KA65 air pump would that be enough oxygen while I treat the fish,my pond is approx 5000 gals how much Potassium Permanganate should I use,also Hydrogen peroxsice, I have a mixed pond with some very large carp, rudd' and gold fish the carp are in the 20lb bracket and 4 koi to around the 15lb mark.
regards roy
Hi Roy, No keep your filtre in the loop with as that will be infected aswell be 100% the thricoderma is the issue though. yes the air could be ok just try it and see how you get on any issues add hydrogen peroxide. Rudd and koi are similarly affected by PP but they should be ok gold fish should be fine.
This measurement is for UK gallons not US gallons also this is providing your pond is definatly 5000gal and using hydrogen peroxide of 6%
PP Dose for 5000 uk gallons = 34g
HP 6% Dose for 5000 uk gallons = 570ml
Adam
hey adam great video.. i recently lost a koi,and another koi is starting to rub on the bottom of the pond. I'm new to the pp would you recommend putting salt in or strictly the pp and hp? thanks ,your fish look great
johnocch1 i would never treat with salt it just slows things down rather than getting to the problem so yes PP and HP but only for Trichodina and i would have to be absolutely sure that's what they have.
There are many different reasons that fish flick or die from water quality issues to bacteria and parasites. only treat with PP if you know you have Trichodina otherwise the treatment may be more harmful than the thing you are trying to treat and probably wont effect the problem you actually need it to solve.
Fish do die its part of the process some can live 100 years and other not so long. if one of my fish died and another was flicking i would clean the filters everyday for a week or so and i would test the water and scrape the fish for parasites.
Hi,
I wonder if you could help please. I'm about to use PP on my pond which is 2500 gal. I will be adding 17g of PP as I've been told. Could you tell me how much Hydrogen Peroxide to add after the 4 hrs to neutralise the PP. also I have some small koi aprox 4 inch. do you think they will be ok left in the pond. Thank you for any advise you can give.
Terry.
17g is spot on for pp. My only issue with answering questions like this is that I don't know anything else but what you have told me. You need to be 100% sure it is 2500gal and it should tell you on the hydrogen peroxide bottle what the mix rate is for a pond unless it's not for ko I which is ok providing that it is just hydrogen peroxide food grade. What % is the hydrogen peroxide and I will answer the question.
Adam .Julyan Hi. thanks for you quick reply. My pond is definitely 2500 gal and I do understand I'm putting you on the spot a bit here. Sorry. The hydrogen peroxide is 6% and I got it from a koi dealer. Just one more thing, if the PP goes brown early how much extra would you add.
Thanks,
Terry.
For 2500gal pond i would use 280ml of 6% hydrogen peroxide.
The brown question is a difficult one my advice would be to not add any extra if this is the first time you treat mainly to see how your pond reacts. I takes quite a bit of experience to see fish reactions and detect proper colour changes it's easier with a very expensive probe.
Don't feed the fish for a few days before and after treatment.
Good luck
Adam
Adam .Julyan Thanks, your advise is very much appreciated. Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks again. Terry
hi , i got 3% HP . should i double the dose for neutralizing the PP ? and did you still operating your filter during the treatment ?
+naufal graisman and how many PP treatment do you need for your koi to get free from trichodina ?
+naufal graisman always be sure that you have trichodina using a microscope. and yes compaired to 6% HP you should double the ammount to have the same effect with 3%. and yes i allow the pp to enter the filter as that is where most of the trichodina will be.
trichodina use a 3 day cycle so they will lay their eggs these will be protected from the PP in the dirt in the pond and filter so generally 3 days later you will need to repeat the treatment to catch the next wave of trichodina and dipending on the dirt level of the pond i might do this 3 times checking each time with the microscope just before i treat.
it is also a good idea to clean your filters really well just after you treat as they will try to hide in the muck in there and you will then flush most of the remaining down the drain.
hi, how did you know the koi had trichodinia?
did you scrape or was it just the red markings because I have a few koi that have been flashing a few times and one or two koi have red marks like your Shiro. was your koi flicking?
Scrape always. It is best to know exactly because you don't want to treat with pp and find out it wasn't necessary. I have a microscope but if you take a fish or a scrape to most dealers they will check it for you. Also high levels of amonia or nitrite can cause flicking and red spots so the first this has to be water quality check. Regular water quality checks are a must I check mine once a week.
Hope that helps
Hi Adam I used pp today and it went brown straight away I added another dose straight away ( 10% more ) it still would not go pink I didn’t want to keep adding pp but I put in another 10% it still would not goldsmith pink it stayed brown , Can you help
What's the best thing to do to treat fin rot please? I've looked it up but there's loads of ways but just wondering if you or anyone knows the best thing to do? Thanks.
hi, ive got 2 3inch koi in 210 ltr tank, lost a 6inch koi done a scrape had costia and trich, how much pp, and preoxide wuold i use, i am aware i only have a small volume of water but love koi and am awaiting 2 move b4 pond can be built, thnxs and your vid helps alot 2 am always eager 2 learn
Johnpaul Clohessy My only issue with answering questions like this is that I don't know anything else but what you have told me. You need to be 100% sure it is 210l and it should tell you on the pp and hydrogen peroxide bottle what the
mix rate is for a pond unless it's not for koI which is ok providing
that it is just hydrogen peroxide food grade. What % is the hydrogen
peroxide and I will answer the question.
Wouldn't it be better to disperse the PP slowly by metering into the pump outlet over a period of time, than just throwing the whole works in one go. It would be less shocking to the fish as they swim thru the concentrated cloud.
Thanks for posting the video.
I have been told that sodium thiosulfate is better to use than peroxide
Whats the dosage of hydrogen peroxide 3% for 1000 UK gallons please
Hi Adam av got 2, 3 inch koi, in a 210 lyrics tank, av scraped one and found Costia, fog hasn't worked so got kusum I pp, and hp I will be getting from chemist 6%
You got all the cool toys
Hi mate what can I do for my koi ulcer ? Thanks
Great video any chance of a pic of tricodina cheers👍👍
hi Adam many thanks on a quick reply Ive started treatment of p.p but its turned a browny colour after 1 1/2 hrs rather then 4 hours should i still the wait 4 hours to put in the hydrogen peroxide as the fish are all ok at the moment
Yeah just wait the 4 hours ideally the PP wants to be purple colour the brown colour means its spent. if it goes brown too early then you add a little more PP (I mean a little bit like 1% incruments) untill it goes purple again although this is not really reccomended untill you have a firm understanding of the affects of PP on your pond. DO NOT OVERDOSE PP
Adam
Where are you based ? I lost a fish a few weeks ago scraped and it had trichodina and flukes but the one that died had dropsy too is it too late to treat with pp
I'm in Rotherham, South yorkshire. that's a shame that's why its good to be able to do scrapes to know exactly what your fighting against.
Adam Julyan are there different treatment for for parasites or could u use PP to kill all ? I’ve just found a small koi today swimming on side . I have to take mine to wayside in donny to do scrapes until I get a microscope
What percentage hp are you using
I use 6% its just what I'm used to so stick with it.
Hi Adam I have a 5000 gallon koi pond and I done some salting in the pond as some my Koi was going pinkish around the gill plates and along their body but now its affecting some more Koi any ideas what this could be
If it's just pink and not sour or infected or raised scales then it's just stress this could be for a lot of reasons cat's, water quality, etc salt won't help stress.
Adam
Hi Adam
As you know there is not heavy Trichodina on healthy fishes, i.e. there is very few number which is negligible, so How did you know that there is the outbreak 'Heavy infection' of Trichodina that needed to be cured? I mean What did you measure (like, how many Trichodina per slide or what) to see that there is the outbreak? What is the standard method if you know to decide that there is outbreak?
What are the water parameters (like Temperature, pH, salinity, hardness ... etc) do you usually check?
Best,
Adam .Julyan
Adam: Thank you so much. Your helpful answers are highly appreciated....
Best,
Abdul
When treating with PP, you will change the water?
Patrick Sarmiento No, its not needed as the hydrogen peroxide completely neutralizes the PP.
+Adam .Julyan (aljonline) +Adam .Julyan (aljonline) Hi Adam, with that volume of water, how often you change the water shall we say, 10-20% change?
+Patrick Sarmiento with the main pond a change 10% a week with the QT tank i change 20% a day it depends on what you want from your setup and the size.
Different types of fish grow faster than others so i don't really concentrate on size but 2 to 14 inch in 5month sounds a lot. if a fish grows too fast it increases its chance of a hart attack another reason why i still have my ponds cool down in winter.
i had 40 koi in a tank for one year they where 2 inch when i get them 1 year later the biggest was 15-17 inch and there where 2 that only got to 4inch both males the females where all the biggest as too be expected.
+Adam .Julyan (aljonline) awesome response, I am not aware that fast growers would cause heart attack. Apologies I removed my previous comment about it.
I am newbie in Koi Keeping and still learning, especially in disease treatments.
+Patrick Sarmiento Yes just like with people if you feed the high growth food they will basically get too big too fast causing health issues and other
problems that come with an unhealthy unbalanced diet.
I forgot to link this in my last comment my video on fresh
water in koi ponds - ruclips.net/video/-CA-GfHvlQM/видео.html
That's cool mate I'm in England Wiltshire
Thanks
hi
don't fancy having a look at my pond do you? lol Leeds
what's up with your pond?
just can't get the water right, when summer comes, I always seem to have problems with the fish, some sort of parasite. just could do with some advice on it all. love your set up by the way, you really know your stuff.
HI ADAM, JUST BOUGHT SOME HYDROGEN PEROXIDE, BUT IT IS 12%, CAN YOU TELL ME PLEASE HOW MUCH TO PUT IN A 6000 LITRE POND TO CLEAR THE PP, THANK YOU.
Hi, it would take 75ml of HP at 12% to clear 6000litre pond.
Adam
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP ON THIS MATTER ADAM
what ratio of hydrogen peroxide would you use per 1000 gallons? I would be using 6% hydrogen peroxide to treat my join. thanks
+david swain for hydrogen peroxide 6% (food grade) use 25ml per 220 gallons (1004litre) please note this is imperial gallons not US gallons (for UK only).
For 1000 imperial gallons you would need 113ml HP