You Call Coin Dealers Crooks But You've Never Been Ripped Off

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  • Опубликовано: 13 дек 2024

Комментарии • 119

  • @CoinHELPu
    @CoinHELPu  19 часов назад +7

    You Call Coin Dealers Crooks But You've Never Been Ripped Off
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    • @VictoriaVeldsman
      @VictoriaVeldsman 15 часов назад

      Ive got coins want a valuation

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  15 часов назад +1

      @@VictoriaVeldsman​​⁠I only give appraisals in my coin shop.

  • @WOCassity2
    @WOCassity2 18 часов назад +16

    The small $150 order I placed with you a year ago with a couple of Morgans, a couple of peace dollars and a roll of wheat pennies was a lot more value than my 11 year old son and I bargained for. He got a nice roll with a lot of mixed dates, very few duplicate dates or mint marks.
    Even though we didn't spend a lot of money with you, we were treated like valued customers. That's integrity and more than fair, above and beyond.
    Focus on the good and you'll get good in return. Thanks, Daniel (and thanks to your dad too because he put together that roll for my son).

  • @jp27whodey31
    @jp27whodey31 18 часов назад +21

    I've been ripped off, by a roommate, by a car dealer, by a bank, by a city administration, by a government, and by 3 armed criminals, but not by a coin dealer (so far).

    • @davefried
      @davefried 16 часов назад

      caveat emptor

  • @clos2650
    @clos2650 Час назад +1

    After buying and selling coins for over 30+ years, and dealing with thousands of different people in the coin world, I can tell you that this guy (Daniel) this a very honest coin dealer. Thanks for what you do for the coin world.

  • @jamesgossweiler1349
    @jamesgossweiler1349 12 часов назад +5

    It's actually to a collector's benefit to ensure their dealer makes a reasonable profit. When dealers profit, they keep an eye out for the coins you collect, give you 'first dibs' on their finds, and work to keep you happy because you're a valued customer.

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +3

      I also think it's up to the dealer to make sure the seller is happy and never feels like you're getting over on them.

  • @joeovalle7775
    @joeovalle7775 18 часов назад +8

    Ive bought from other dealers but i always keep coming back to your shop thank you for your honesty

  • @JFDoria79
    @JFDoria79 12 часов назад +4

    I go to Edelman's Coins in Jenkintown, PA (near Philly), and that place is great. It's been in the same building and in the same family for 100 years. They are very fair and honest. It amazes me that folks think you should pay spot. When you buy a stock you have to pay a brokerage fee. Everyone needs to make a profit.

  • @MarkA-Coins
    @MarkA-Coins 18 часов назад +7

    Thanks Daniel. You've said everything. I have never ever thought coin dealers are crooks. It is because I understand the hobby. The problem is when folks inherit collections and are not collectors, they will instantly jump on the internet and start looking. They see so much misinformation and those unrealistic prices, then expect those prices. Some will listen but then there are a few who will instantly think you are ripping them off. All you can do is to share the prices of the goods on a screen with them and explain to them what you can do for them. If on the phone, all you can do is to share the knowledge and hope they understand. There is a huge cost to running a shop...Rent, Licenses, electric, security, employees, on and on. You have to make a profit but with you Daniel and many others, it's done honestly. Yes, there are bad apples out there but that will go with anything.

  • @vernonpurvis2810
    @vernonpurvis2810 17 часов назад +8

    A lot of people will look up the value of their coin and immediately eye the MS-69 value of their coin and can't understand how their low grade example is not worth $10,000. Many people are confused over grades and vastly overestimated their coins grade.

  • @jp27whodey31
    @jp27whodey31 18 часов назад +8

    My grand pappy used to say, the guy who keeps saying he's not a crook is the first one you suspect. 😂😂 love ya Daniel

    • @BradYaateeh.
      @BradYaateeh. 16 часов назад

      wisdom

    • @MDTAR15
      @MDTAR15 12 часов назад +1

      Yep, the dealer who calls himself "Honest Freddy" or "Trustworthy Tom" or something like that, are always the dishonest ones. My dad always said the biggest criminal in the room is the guy telling you how honest he is.

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      My reputation speaks for itself. My video is not bragging on myself, but talking about coin dealers in general and people who call them crooks. Most people don't know coins, but they still think a coin dealer ripped them off. I can say I am honest and still be honest, this isn't wisdom, this is a false accusation on me.
      My videos and reviews alone speak for me.

    • @jp27whodey31
      @jp27whodey31 11 часов назад

      @CoinHELPu I know your legitimate and honest bro, I just thought maybe you needed a laugh

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      @@jp27whodey31 But look at the comments it drew

  • @TheWinstonDouble
    @TheWinstonDouble 12 часов назад +4

    Every dealer in town is a crook if you ask around enough. There's always someone who thinks a 10% margin on numismatics is more than enough to pay the bills. The reality is that a lot of these people have one interaction with them, and think they know everything about how they do business.

  • @Tyrock67
    @Tyrock67 18 часов назад +6

    I've been collecting since 1978. In retirement, I've been a small dealer doing shows since 2021. I've seen numismatics from both sides of the table, and I believe that most dealers are fair to people. Yes, some dealers are dishonest, just as some collectors are. I recently experienced my first theft when my wife mistakenly sold a gold quarter eagle to a customer for $55, and when I caught her mistake and asked him to return the coin, he showed me an empty box and said she never gave it to him. Bottom line, common coins stay common and rare coins appreciate in value. Coins are bought at wholesale and sold at retail like any other commodity. Knowledge is power in every field.

  • @scotthansen9081
    @scotthansen9081 8 часов назад +1

    You are right. Yes there are a few bad apples, but never condemn the whole for the few.

  • @the_big_dog813
    @the_big_dog813 15 часов назад +2

    Coin dealers have overhead to pay, and that is their source of income so they must make enough profit to not only pay their bills but to live and save from. IMO you are the most honest dealer that I've ever come across, and you go out of your way to pay what you can within reason so that you can stay in business. Thanks for doing all that you do.

  • @cakensteak
    @cakensteak 15 часов назад +2

    One of the best, most pertinent videos ever on precious metals. Well done, brother.

  • @TheQuickSilver101
    @TheQuickSilver101 16 часов назад +5

    I've seen coin dealers rip people off. I've also seen car dealers, HVAC businesses, tree trimmers, banks and copious amounts of eBay sellers rip people off too. That hardly means that every one of those folks or companies rip people off. People are people so some will rip you off and others will be angels. Painting all coin dealers as crooks because a few are is foolish and wrong

  • @BradYaateeh.
    @BradYaateeh. 15 часов назад +4

    The buying public is so blind to overhead costs. I just made my first online purchase from you, and it went perfectly. Your price was fair to me, and I could care less what you have in it.

    • @Tim99-lg7kn
      @Tim99-lg7kn 12 часов назад +1

      The thing is if a coin shops overhead cost that much to where they have to charge that much and offer very little when it comes to buying then maybe they should rethink their business strategy. Everyday folks have overhead to

    • @MDTAR15
      @MDTAR15 12 часов назад

      a coins dealers "high" overhead is not my problem or my fault. Just like my problems and my reason for selling my coins is not their fault. They will be the first to tell you that a coin is worth what its worth, regardless of how well your life is going or how high your rent is.

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      @Tim99-lg7kn you do not understand business in general making a statement like this.

    • @rahza010
      @rahza010 9 часов назад

      Make some money Error coins people$

  • @williamguirl7735
    @williamguirl7735 3 часа назад

    I’ve been buying & selling since I was 10 years old, comic books, baseball cards, etc, coins & stamps later, then paper money later, I bought a 1916-D dime from a dealer 30 years ago(he was a PNG member) several years later, I went to sell the set and found out the 16-D was a cleverly glued mint mark, I informed the dealer(who had since retired) and he promptly gave my money back; 3 years later, he remembered the sale as it was a high grade key date that’d fooled both of us, lasting impressions.

  • @Supercheeseburger666
    @Supercheeseburger666 8 часов назад

    I agree with you, Daniel. It seems that an upset customer will call a dealer a crook after being disappointed. It's not fair to the Dealer.

  • @mikebarushok5361
    @mikebarushok5361 6 часов назад

    Daniel you are entirely correct. Most people who think a coin dealer was trying to be dishonest is because they lack the information.
    There are coin dealers that have honesty and integrity and some few that have neither.
    Locally there was a very nationally well known dealer that did a lot of high value consignment deals that got into a lot of debt and tried to fake a robbery/kidnapping scene and disappeared, leaving his wife and kids to handle the mess. It's exceedingly rare, but does happen. Who was ripped off? His creditors, known and unknown, and his family. And some of his customers that had consigned items that he had sold without paying for or had taken with him.
    One local dealer managed to stay in business after pleading guilty to tax fraud and paying hefty penalties and interest on top of the taxes he had tried to evade. I'll never do business with him because he tried to steal from everyone that pays their taxes.
    I realize those two well documented examples aren't the kind of dishonesty that this video addresses, but high profile cases like these damage the reputation of coin dealers and make it easier for the public to be suspicious.

  • @Yankee_Doodle_Stacker
    @Yankee_Doodle_Stacker 15 часов назад +2

    facts are that coin dealers have to sell a coin for more than they bought it for. To some that may seem too high, but its life.

  • @bigo2032
    @bigo2032 17 часов назад +3

    Good video, Daniel
    You have to be able to lay your head down on the pillow at night and go to sleep without worrying. If you cheated someone, that being said mortgage/rent, utilities, insurance brick and mortar is expensive.
    I have a family member who has a business for over 50 years and he always says I will trade what I have to pay the government in taxes for what my profit is

  • @RockinFinds
    @RockinFinds 18 часов назад +2

    Good morning, Daniel. The bottom line is different folk, different strokes. And this saying still applies to today's generation.

  • @deanr1963
    @deanr1963 18 часов назад +3

    Great video Daniel. It’s unfortunate that people have become so distrustful

  • @StephenKozlowski
    @StephenKozlowski 12 часов назад +2

    Thanks for sharing your good man

  • @Kenneth-nx4uv
    @Kenneth-nx4uv 10 часов назад +1

    Dan's The Man, Many Individuals Think They Know Coins In A Few Weeks. NUMISMATICS Changes Daily Like Other Fields Like Electronics Or Medical. I've Been Doing This 63 Years, I Continue To Study Everyday. Never Had A Problem Throwing A Fool Out Of Any Shop I've Worked At. Realize People A Coin Shop's A Bank, In Fact More Than A Bank. Bankers Don't Generally KNOW Money, They Just COUNT IT 👉 PERIOD.

  • @treyw1171
    @treyw1171 19 часов назад +3

    Great video and discussion. I always want the coin dealers I do business with to make a profit and do well. I also think it helps the coin hobby and coin values long term to have competition and a very active marketplace with many dealers. Just go in with the understanding that we both have to agree on the price and don't get upset if you can't reach agreement with a dealer on that day. Don't take it personally and treat it as a business transaction. The obvious crooks at the extremes you mention are an exception -- just don't do business with them; same category for me that anyone who sells Nazi coins... I just choose not to do business with them.

  • @Tim99-lg7kn
    @Tim99-lg7kn 18 часов назад +3

    What one thinks is a fair business practice to others look sus..

  • @robertvirnig638
    @robertvirnig638 2 часа назад

    A dealer won't pay anything close to what you can get selling coins on eBay, but if you subtract seller fees and pay yourself for you time listing and shipping you probably come out about the same. I would never sell to a dealer because I'd rather spend the time to get the best price, but if you don't want to deal with the hassle a dealer isn't a horrible way to go.

  • @wandlbaker
    @wandlbaker 19 часов назад +6

    I am a Christian and I once had someone argue with me that those who print Bibles should NOT make a profit. Does that make publishers crooks? Not even a little A business has expenses and if they buy at full value and sell at cost then why be in business. SMH

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      Yeah, I've head that before. I agree with you and I always appreciate you comments!

  • @tombollenbach2329
    @tombollenbach2329 18 часов назад +2

    People buy coin magazines and look at the crazy prices. Stop by your shop, "boom" reality shock...LOL enjoy the day...

  • @ronaldmylrea6854
    @ronaldmylrea6854 19 часов назад +6

    I concur, buying and selling are two different business processes,

  • @davefried
    @davefried 16 часов назад +1

    you could post a thousand videos explaining with facts how and why coin shops don’t rip people off. but the reality is that most people who sell to coin shops do so because they’re desperate and need instant fiat currency, and their mindset will always be that they should have gotten more for their sale.

  • @reggieh9857
    @reggieh9857 18 часов назад +3

    you are an awesome person you care about people. It’s very easy to see that you are so helpful. I am so grateful to have come across your RUclips channel

  • @TheMostSlyFox
    @TheMostSlyFox 18 часов назад +6

    The issue with coin dealers in the states is there 2-3 or more middle men that touch each transaction of silver or gold. This in turn creates a situation that each individual involved wants 'their cut'. For merely handing over cash, or shipping an item, or making a single phone call (all things I've seen done) these individuals make hundreds of dollars for approximately 10 minutes of work. In China, the spot price is what metals cost to buy just like on the comex. The premiums are what most people take issue with, and the lack of transparency or consistency with them.

  • @joelp6197
    @joelp6197 12 часов назад +1

    So far i have ordered a few items from you Danial and was pleased with the quality of the coins and your service. Thanks. P S if you want your mint state coins to get top dollar send them out to NGC PCGS CAC etc. get the grade from a 3rd party. No question then.

  • @williamguirl7735
    @williamguirl7735 3 часа назад

    Age old issues, I’ve bought & sold many collections, most folks don’t understand businesses, and think they should get full retail for Everthing they sell, but I’ve always given them fair market value on a wholesale level and resold a little below retail value, yes, I’ve been called the C work, but I run it as a business, fact of life, most coin dealers get accused of being crooks, fact of lack of general education of the public. But I’m always Ethical with folks.

  • @michaellastoria2240
    @michaellastoria2240 15 часов назад +1

    You're more likely to get ripped off by a jewelry store, or coin shops that also specialize in jewelry. Thats just my experience.

  • @freekingawwsome
    @freekingawwsome 5 часов назад

    I thought anybody was considered a coin dealer if you have cent in your hand you got to sell yourself if you want another to buy that coin so I would consider all of us are , specially if you buy sell trade

  • @wendellbedwell4047
    @wendellbedwell4047 18 часов назад +4

    That is the reason I buy from you is I feel you are fair and honest Thank you

  • @Mrs.CoinCrew
    @Mrs.CoinCrew 19 часов назад +4

    Great Video People need to hear this

  • @niarbasdeenohw
    @niarbasdeenohw 11 часов назад

    ( 0:52 - 1:22 ) soooo true, so true...

  • @linneisenhower2571
    @linneisenhower2571 18 часов назад +2

    As a senior collector now, i was made aware as a teen collector that I should realize there was a 30% difference between the buy and sell price on a collector coin, and I have collected since then with that in mind. The internet today provides so much market data that the difference has largely shrunk a bit, but anyone buying or selling today must understand the concept of margin. If one is not willing to educate oneself properly, one is not in a position to bitch.

  • @jacksmail7725
    @jacksmail7725 7 часов назад

    Appreciate the video..

  • @leovenier1011
    @leovenier1011 18 часов назад +2

    Dont change your ❤ i love the history and chase it. This is why i buy.9999 close to spot no argument. I will call around for the highest price . Had coin dealer tell me its not silver take it to someone else and get close to spot for steering. On coins offering less than spot for Morgans and peace 15 dollar 💵 or less all i can say trust your gut and selltoyou. 😮thankyou.

  • @jamesnicholas9215
    @jamesnicholas9215 16 часов назад +4

    I have taken few coins that was old to coin shops after 2 seconds looking they said they give me 25 for one and 30 for the other I later sent them in to get graded because I thought they looked better then they said turns out I was right one was ms66 other ms 64 they told me they were au at best a difference in price of about 2500 dollars.

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад

      What type, denomination and date and mint where your coins?

    • @jamesnicholas9215
      @jamesnicholas9215 10 часов назад

      @@CoinHELPu 1878 cc morgan dollar and 1921 morgan been a while i think the 1878 was ms 64 and the 1921 was ms 66 my grandfather was given a new silver dollar every year of his life and he kept them put up he left to me years ago I sold both for other coins. Been about 10 years ago I think since I asked coin dealer.

    • @jamesnicholas9215
      @jamesnicholas9215 10 часов назад

      @@CoinHELPu at the time was only coin dealer I knew about and had to drive 60 miles to see him and the few times I went there he was very rude, since then I found dealers online and go see them better people and they get my business even though they are much farther away.

  • @UKDark_Mark
    @UKDark_Mark 5 часов назад

    In my experience coin dealers are not crooks. A lot of them are rude, suspicious, mean spirited and patronising but that does not make them crooks.

  • @rogeredson8709
    @rogeredson8709 16 часов назад +1

    I agree most are honest but some are not especially with newby stackers and premiums

  • @vvnutzvv
    @vvnutzvv 17 минут назад

    U are def honest but there is crooks in any an every business

  • @CompetentSalesUSA
    @CompetentSalesUSA 19 часов назад +3

    Good moral compass.

  • @NumismaticStacker-z8x
    @NumismaticStacker-z8x 18 часов назад +1

    Nah, coin market swings back and forward. Adjusting accordingly.

  • @frankfinnsweenryan
    @frankfinnsweenryan 7 часов назад

    I have some pretty favorable opinions on the majority of coin dealers and shops I frequent. The hobby needs these businesses and the human to human interactions have been crucial in terms of gaining numismatic education.

  • @upscaleflipping4617
    @upscaleflipping4617 19 часов назад +3

    Well I am from Maryland and there was a shop in easton that is now closed he would crack out higher graded coins and try yes try to put low grade coin and sell at a great deal he finally closed shop but I found hundreds of great shops and people who sell coins in my case 99% great and 1% bad but when you get taken for it reflects the whole but you are here to help and educate you are the best

    • @craigplatel813
      @craigplatel813 18 часов назад

      @@upscaleflipping4617 the big problem is that people will tell 10 times the number of people about a bad experience compared to a good experience. All my time in retail we spent lots of time trying to reduce the bad experiences and to get people to talk about their good experiences to others.

  • @markwojo727
    @markwojo727 19 часов назад +3

    Your very appreciated love the Honesty!!!

  • @countrygalweaver6300
    @countrygalweaver6300 9 часов назад +1

    I would trust u a 100%. Our spirits mingle and I have never met u. But I feel that I have met u. U are a lot like my husband u couldn’t rip any one off.

  • @scottymoondogjakubin4766
    @scottymoondogjakubin4766 Час назад

    Pawn shops are the worst ! Everybody is either down on there luck a or a crack head or both ! At least thats how i felt the last time i went to a pawn shop !

  • @bill4572
    @bill4572 17 часов назад +1

    Those reviews good or bad is a part of social media either Google or whatever platform you are on I bet with the bad or good reviews you haven't even met the person that wrote it that's the way I would look at it

  • @josepha9313
    @josepha9313 9 часов назад

    I won't call anyone a crook. But I've long ago stopped buying expensive coins, in my definition in the 500-1500 range. Hold them 10 years and can't even get break even money. Maybe it was a poor market to buy in, maybe I overpaid. With 1 or 2 exceptions where I made a little, most of the time I lost money. Just not a good investment.

  • @leechild4655
    @leechild4655 11 часов назад

    Used car salesmen are probably the most viewed as crooks overall but there are way more good dealers than not. Same with coin dealers. The bad ones get the most press so the thinking is they are all crooks. Not true for the most part. Most know it doesnt serve them to be dishonest or just way over pricing their wares.

  • @williamgrimes668
    @williamgrimes668 19 часов назад +2

    I don't know if paying MS60 is safe because I have seen plenty of AU58's that look UNC

  • @timtaylor5296
    @timtaylor5296 14 часов назад

    That's all of Iowas coin shops as these people want the most high-end for cheap-free

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      There's 20 dealers in Iowa and most have good reviews, have you been to all of them, do you know more about coins and coin values than a dealer or do you know as much as a coin dealer about coins?

  • @tom_morgandealer_pgh1648
    @tom_morgandealer_pgh1648 18 часов назад +3

    Modern coins collector don't know the horrors of the refinery on coins since the 80. Morgans and merc dimes by the 200 dollar face value being sent off to melt. Just pure stupidity. Gold melts fine but don't melt junk silver people.

  • @HyddenWellFarms
    @HyddenWellFarms 18 часов назад +2

    Love you Daniel. Always had great experiences trading with you

  • @Tim99-lg7kn
    @Tim99-lg7kn 12 часов назад

    Just because someone's never been ripped off directly doesn't mean they're wrong. Unfortunately every time you hear a Hindu voice over the phone you most likely think scammer and statistically you wouldn't be wrong

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      That is not what I stated, I said, most people who call coin dealers crooks have not been ripped off by a coin dealer, they just think they have.

  • @haroldmclean3755
    @haroldmclean3755 8 часов назад +1

    The Man with the Money 💰🤾‍♂️
    Will bring your assumptions back down to earth 🌎 🪂

  • @ronhacker3806
    @ronhacker3806 17 часов назад +3

    So, in other words. People should not collect coins because it's a losing proposition

    • @cakensteak
      @cakensteak 15 часов назад

      🎉

    • @Tim99-lg7kn
      @Tim99-lg7kn 12 часов назад

      Sadly most of the time😢

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +3

      If that is all you've learned from my 1,700+ videos then, yes, give up.

  • @TheTrueSonOfFire
    @TheTrueSonOfFire 19 часов назад +3

    Main people I've seen call coin dealers crooks are the folks in charge of stimulus checks

  • @CorySmith-bp7ie
    @CorySmith-bp7ie 19 часов назад +1

    Good topic for future video. What is the best way to get started buying and selling coins and eventually running your own shop?

    • @1011Shke
      @1011Shke 18 часов назад

      Check his video list on coinhelpu. I believe there are several in list on that subject.

  • @donaldcombs7701
    @donaldcombs7701 19 часов назад +1

    As I see it if you don't agree with the price your offered you can always go somewhere else. There is no need to call anyone a crook. You don't know what it takes to run there business if you don't agree go somewhere else.

  • @TheTrueSonOfFire
    @TheTrueSonOfFire 19 часов назад +1

    I always used to make a pretty penny off those old wooden fishing lures, especially when in the original packaging.

  • @ArchieFields-l5b
    @ArchieFields-l5b 19 часов назад

    I got a dollar bill that has a number on it and the number is 50000704 is that worth anything

    • @brandongant9343
      @brandongant9343 19 часов назад +7

      @@ArchieFields-l5b it’s worth $1

    • @samename3926
      @samename3926 18 часов назад

      ​@@brandongant9343😂

    • @Tim99-lg7kn
      @Tim99-lg7kn 18 часов назад

      ​@@brandongant9343man ,beat me to the punch lol

    • @tweetybird3597
      @tweetybird3597 18 часов назад

      @@brandongant9343 adjusted for inflation its worth 0.03 cents

  • @Mrs.CoinCrew
    @Mrs.CoinCrew 19 часов назад +1

    because people that go to refiners undersand business. If a dealer doesn't want to buy your stuff they call you a crook. Some people think dealers have unlimited funds also

    • @Tim99-lg7kn
      @Tim99-lg7kn 18 часов назад +1

      I think they're more talking of when the dealer offers you a low ball price or under spot turns around and sells it for way more of a pricing needed for profit to run their overhead it's called greed

  • @williamfender661
    @williamfender661 15 часов назад

    I know 2 dealers where I live that will go on eBay and find the cheapest price something sold for ignoring the vast majority of comps and deduct another 20% for their offer. That's the ones I stay away from. That's extreme low balling.

    • @CoinHELPu
      @CoinHELPu  11 часов назад +1

      That is questionable practices, but sellers bring coins in the shop and try to get me to pay a percentage of some high dollar, that some ebay seller is TRYING to sell their coins for. So it works both ways. You just don't sell it to them.

  • @williamguirl7735
    @williamguirl7735 3 часа назад

    I’ve been buying & selling since I was 10 years old, comic books, baseball cards, etc, coins & stamps later, then paper money later, I bought a 1916-D dime from a dealer 30 years ago(he was a PNG member) several years later, I went to sell the set and found out the 16-D was a cleverly glued mint mark, I informed the dealer(who had since retired) and he promptly gave my money back; 3 years later, he remembered the sale as it was a high grade key date that’d fooled both of us, lasting impressions.