@@jjtb7300 maybe the final video in this series will be just explaining those differences, i know he has a video that kind of explains that already but this series could be a one stop shop
Once again, thank you so much for doing this series. Content like this is basically impossible to find on the Internet boiled down to such an understandable and compact format, so it ends up being invaluable for those of us who are interested in how memory works, but have the time/resources to read through the tedious documentation and learn it that way. Keep up the great work
You LITERALLY started this series just days after I finished painstakingly overclocking my memory for the better part of a week. I had to combine info from tens of sources to even come close to good info. Will now probably end up binge watching and then tweaking much more when I upgrade my processor.
Man, last year I spent over 2 weeks tweaking memory timings having to mostly rely on brute force trial end error to figure out which settings even make a difference, because all the info I could find was frightfully vague and scattered amongst countless obscure articles and old forum posts. This series would have saved me so many headaches. Unfortunately, now I am tempted to start messing with the timings again to do it properly.
@@fnorgen Hahaha extremely relatable. A lot of people online definitely act like they know what they are talking about and don't, and other guides that do seem good are incomplete at best. I'm happy mine has been stable since I messed with it now, but def won't be tweaking again for a while.
@buildzoid. This stuff is gold! Knowing when a timing is relevant or not or lowering it hurts performance is amazing. It makes it so much easier than just entering in random timings and having no idea why performance is unchanged, goes up or even goes down with tighter timings. Thank you. Looking forward to the next episode 😁
This explains why having low Trcd and Tras with low subtimings makes the biggest difference to peformance. The difference between Trdrd_sg (read to read same group) being set from a 8 to a 7 could be huge. Because if there are multiple reads in the same bank and row but different column (up to 1024) there could be 100s of Trdrd_sg commands. The lower it's set the lower your latency would be.
Meanwhile memeory be like single-rank bdie: rdrd/wrwr _sg 6 runs, 7 does not (but does, on dual-rank!), 8 runs 8 performs better than 6 because fuck you hee hee haa haa
FINALLY!!! Someone FINALLY explained why I can’t seem to find tRP. Every site I’ve read was telling me to tune tRP, but nobody told me so far it does not exist on 10th gen.
I love this series. And I'm also a horrible person because I'm starting to really like that you don't like it. The slightly aggressive pounding of the keys and the loud sighs at how stupidly complicated timings are just makes my day. You do your best work when you're annoyed :P
Makes sense and this is actually going to be very useful if I try to tighten the timings. I'm seriously taking notes. I should be able to use it in a month. If you're worried about views, you can space out the videos like 3-5 days apart maybe? Everyday is great for us, but not often the algorithm.
This was pretty quick and on point! I have to ask, between PRE and the next ACT, is there any other command that can run (and that makes sense) ? I thinking that maybe something like refresh (forgot the command name, where the capacitors are recharged) ? Is there anything (else) that can run there ? If not, then I'm also very dumbfounded as to why tRC and tRAS would exist at the same time.
refreshes can only be started with all banks precharged. Also they take forever. So no you can't put that between the PRE and ACT. You can replace the ACT with a REF.
Refresh command is the tRFC timing and that one is supremely high of 200-400 cycles. Also heat sensitive so very hard to get right so I leave it to auto lol.
thanks fir the great video，could you please explain whats the problem of gigabyte mb trp setting as u mentioned on 7:00？ i am using gigabyte b550master， it works well on trcd 21&trp 25， but cannt pass trcd 24&trp24 in memtest.
This series about DDR timings are sooo great! Quite a hard to get it right. Need to pause videos often to realize what You are actually talking about. 🤔😉😀 Maybe You should do Yourself a favor and make a better spreadsheet with auto calculated timings that are dependent on each other. 😉
@@ahmetarslan2748 i have same timings with 3600 Mhz on my C-die. I have best performance with 38, but I can't seem to stabilize it at that, so currently its 42, which is fine in its own way. 42 is smoother, 38 is "faster" ? I prefer smoother though.
How does the controller know when to read voltages on the data bus? Conversely, how does the chip know when the data is being read and it's time to set the data bus voltages to the second (and later) bit values? Is there a pin on the stick which the controller holds high/low which allows the chip to flush through the data each half-cycle?
I'd love to know the tightest cl14 3600mhz w/o overclocking it for instance my timings for the 1st columns are 14-14-14-28-42 at 1.45 volts but would love to know the tightest I could get with the rest of my timings.
hey can you explain why on ryzen 7 16-16-16-19-21-61 with trpt at 10 is so much slower than 16-16-16-19-21-60with trtp set to 9.. like overclocking this memory it seems to not have any improvements from 16-22-22-22-21(or i think auto was 43)-75 with a trtp at 12. i was looking at occt and the cycles seem to half itself at random or even worst! keep in mind auto for twr was 4-12-24 and trtp at 12.. but i set mines to 4-10-20 with trtp at 10 then 9. i saw the other video where u were explaining stuff so i am guess cause you didnt really explain but trc=trcdwr+trcdr+trp+trtp. thats what im guessing. im guessing its cause ididnt watch the twr video yet.
So tCL + tRTP = tRAS on Ryzen? You mentioned in another video if it is a higher or lower number than both combined, then either tRTP or tRAS gets ignored. My tCL is 15 and tRTP of 8, tRAS 23
I'd love to see a series where he just gives advice to people with their ram timing honestly, but I have no doubt that would be awful to actually get all the info he'd need from each person to actually advise them
hey what cards have best GDDR6 Ram temperatures? MSI-GeForce-RTX-3080-SUPRIM-X-LHR-12GB- GIGABYTE-GeForce-RTX-3080-AORUS-Master-12GB- ASUS-RTX-3080-ROG-STRIX-OC-V2-LHR-12GB- and want the coolest temperatures because I have already tested 2 other cards, cheaper versions and there it reaches above 96 degrees gddr6x rams and I am not interested in such cards because it is heater at home not a computer ,
I find the documentation that amd provides is pretty random. Some gens the have a bunch some gens nothing. Intel is pretty good about putting it out for current products. Older product data may or may not stay up on their site. Def download it when you see it. Anyways thanks for this series it's useful
you ask if your presentation of material makes sense - it absolutely does except maybe you should rather prepare all examples before video instead of copypasting
this is already the TL;DR of the JEDEC/DRAM manufacturer docs. If you wanna read a few hundred pages of RAM timings instead of watching the video go for it.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I know its alot to ask, but if this continues as a series and goes into ddr5, it would be a nice reference series for the next several years
Buildzoid will love to do that!
DDR 5 is mostly the same but with more bank groups and with more power saving things
@@jjtb7300 maybe the final video in this series will be just explaining those differences, i know he has a video that kind of explains that already but this series could be a one stop shop
DDR5 uses pretty much the exact same timings just on slightly different structure.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking dont the timings need to be longer on ddr5 because each clock is less nanoseconds?
Once again, thank you so much for doing this series.
Content like this is basically impossible to find on the Internet boiled down to such an understandable and compact format, so it ends up being invaluable for those of us who are interested in how memory works, but have the time/resources to read through the tedious documentation and learn it that way.
Keep up the great work
WOW, I didn't know this existed!!! Gotta go to pt.1. TY 4 doing this!
You LITERALLY started this series just days after I finished painstakingly overclocking my memory for the better part of a week. I had to combine info from tens of sources to even come close to good info. Will now probably end up binge watching and then tweaking much more when I upgrade my processor.
Man, last year I spent over 2 weeks tweaking memory timings having to mostly rely on brute force trial end error to figure out which settings even make a difference, because all the info I could find was frightfully vague and scattered amongst countless obscure articles and old forum posts. This series would have saved me so many headaches.
Unfortunately, now I am tempted to start messing with the timings again to do it properly.
@@fnorgen Hahaha extremely relatable. A lot of people online definitely act like they know what they are talking about and don't, and other guides that do seem good are incomplete at best. I'm happy mine has been stable since I messed with it now, but def won't be tweaking again for a while.
I truly appreciate these videos. Thank you for slogging through spreadsheet hell to present this to us all.
this is wonderful, i hope you continue to dig deeper into timings with secondary and tertiary timings too
man you're cooking these RAM videos fast - which is great as it's continuous series it keeps the pace up 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you so much for the enlightening ddr timing series! Very informative and helping stuff click and make sense!
Thanks!
My God I love buildzoid
@buildzoid. This stuff is gold! Knowing when a timing is relevant or not or lowering it hurts performance is amazing. It makes it so much easier than just entering in random timings and having no idea why performance is unchanged, goes up or even goes down with tighter timings. Thank you. Looking forward to the next episode 😁
Great videos....I'm learning so much about the meaning behind these numers. :)
I barely understood the last two videos but I'm here for this!
I hope this series gets continued!
Learning a lot with this timings serie! 😄
Thank you so much for making this series!!!!
Haven't concentrated this hard since A Level Mechanical Maths
This explains why having low Trcd and Tras with low subtimings makes the biggest difference to peformance. The difference between Trdrd_sg (read to read same group) being set from a 8 to a 7 could be huge. Because if there are multiple reads in the same bank and row but different column (up to 1024) there could be 100s of Trdrd_sg commands. The lower it's set the lower your latency would be.
Meanwhile memeory be like
single-rank bdie:
rdrd/wrwr _sg 6 runs, 7 does not (but does, on dual-rank!), 8 runs
8 performs better than 6 because fuck you
hee hee haa haa
@@TheDoomerBloxtiming trolling and tomfoolery
When you adjust tertiaries you also need to adjust tccdl and iol/rtl. Try tccdl 7. @TheDoomerBlox
These videos finally made some understanding click together fir me. I understand you find them annoying to make, but your work is much appreciated.
FINALLY!!! Someone FINALLY explained why I can’t seem to find tRP. Every site I’ve read was telling me to tune tRP, but nobody told me so far it does not exist on 10th gen.
I love this series. And I'm also a horrible person because I'm starting to really like that you don't like it. The slightly aggressive pounding of the keys and the loud sighs at how stupidly complicated timings are just makes my day. You do your best work when you're annoyed :P
Hopefully more people watch these so you don't stop making them
I hope you finish the series, people will come upon or reference these vids for many years to come.
Thanks for doing this
thanks for the videos. I learn a lot.
Makes sense and this is actually going to be very useful if I try to tighten the timings. I'm seriously taking notes. I should be able to use it in a month.
If you're worried about views, you can space out the videos like 3-5 days apart maybe? Everyday is great for us, but not often the algorithm.
Thank you
Thank you, much appreciated. I'm late but Vipers are like $50 now, so I had to try.
10:34 precharging is only needed when IMC activates different row?
great serie
This was pretty quick and on point!
I have to ask, between PRE and the next ACT, is there any other command that can run (and that makes sense) ? I thinking that maybe something like refresh (forgot the command name, where the capacitors are recharged) ? Is there anything (else) that can run there ? If not, then I'm also very dumbfounded as to why tRC and tRAS would exist at the same time.
refreshes can only be started with all banks precharged. Also they take forever. So no you can't put that between the PRE and ACT. You can replace the ACT with a REF.
Refresh command is the tRFC timing and that one is supremely high of 200-400 cycles.
Also heat sensitive so very hard to get right so I leave it to auto lol.
Another comment to feed the RUclips algorithm overlords!
thanks fir the great video，could you please explain whats the problem of gigabyte mb trp setting as u mentioned on 7:00？ i am using gigabyte b550master， it works well on trcd 21&trp 25， but cannt pass trcd 24&trp24 in memtest.
This series about DDR timings are sooo great! Quite a hard to get it right. Need to pause videos often to realize what You are actually talking about. 🤔😉😀
Maybe You should do Yourself a favor and make a better spreadsheet with auto calculated timings that are dependent on each other. 😉
You da man cool guy
So whats the ideal value for tras ? Esp on intel 10th gen ?
I am wondering the same 4200 16-18-18-?? on Samsung b-die 1.5v . What should be the tras
@@ahmetarslan2748 i have same timings with 3600 Mhz on my C-die. I have best performance with 38, but I can't seem to stabilize it at that, so currently its 42, which is fine in its own way. 42 is smoother, 38 is "faster" ? I prefer smoother though.
@@EpicBunty i am stabil with 36 for 12 hours of karhu ram test now
@@ahmetarslan2748 try TM5 with 1usmus profle. at least 3 hours.
bz what inspired you to do this series
How does the controller know when to read voltages on the data bus? Conversely, how does the chip know when the data is being read and it's time to set the data bus voltages to the second (and later) bit values? Is there a pin on the stick which the controller holds high/low which allows the chip to flush through the data each half-cycle?
I literally can't find tRC in my z690 (tomahawk) bios where is it? I want to see if my tRP & tRAS = tRC
1:50
As stated in the video, there is no "tRC" on Intel platforms so the above equation applies
As Buildzoid says many times, it' AMD only.
@@Snoop05B cheers
@@radekc5325 cheers
I'd love to know the tightest cl14 3600mhz w/o overclocking it for instance my timings for the 1st columns are 14-14-14-28-42 at 1.45 volts but would love to know the tightest I could get with the rest of my timings.
Nice
good coverage to help People know what tRC is for and how much it matters (or rather, doesn't) that AMD has it and Intel doesn't.
hey can you explain why on ryzen 7 16-16-16-19-21-61 with trpt at 10 is so much slower than 16-16-16-19-21-60with trtp set to 9.. like overclocking this memory it seems to not have any improvements from 16-22-22-22-21(or i think auto was 43)-75 with a trtp at 12. i was looking at occt and the cycles seem to half itself at random or even worst! keep in mind auto for twr was 4-12-24 and trtp at 12.. but i set mines to 4-10-20 with trtp at 10 then 9. i saw the other video where u were explaining stuff so i am guess cause you didnt really explain but trc=trcdwr+trcdr+trp+trtp. thats what im guessing. im guessing its cause ididnt watch the twr video yet.
I pray you find the will to complete this series xd
On Ryzen, if you set tRAS=21, everything will 'work fine' except for the built-in memtest program on windows bootmenu, it will error out.
so if i have tRP 14 and tRC 57, tRAS should be 43?
yes but the CPU just doesn't really do anything with the excessively low tRAS if your tRC is high.
So tCL + tRTP = tRAS on Ryzen? You mentioned in another video if it is a higher or lower number than both combined, then either tRTP or tRAS gets ignored. My tCL is 15 and tRTP of 8, tRAS 23
OKay I understand :
// tRC is read from the bios config
if (tRP + tRAS > tRC) then {
tRC = tRP + tRAS;
};
I CAN'T BELIEVE I NEVER KNEW tRAS = tRCD+tCL+tRTP
GOD DAMN IT
About to do an ITX build with a 5800x3D, how much should I care about timings & dual vs single rank (only have 2 dimm slots for 32gb)
Next: Reacting to people's RAM timings Episode 4 pls
I want to show off my Nanya 3800MT
3200CL16 kit 16-21-21-21-42 XMP😁
I'd love to see a series where he just gives advice to people with their ram timing honestly, but I have no doubt that would be awful to actually get all the info he'd need from each person to actually advise them
for my 10700k and hynix ajr is it fine for it to be at 17-22-22-30 or is that bad
On what freq and VDIMM?
@@valentin3186 4000 and 1.46v
@@minglee4207 From what little I know of AJR that seems alright. I'd wager tRCDs on it probably don't scale at all like other Hynix ICs.
@@IK4MS its basically djr but 16gb sticks
looks good to me.
Could you cover GDDR5/6 timmings ?
can you help me!? i have 5600x and G.skill b-die 3600 14-14-14-34 1.45v msi mpg b550 gaming plus! what timings should i set?
Please tutorial ddr5
Can tRDRD_sg be less then 4?
According to the intel documentation the minimum supported value is 4. So no.
Ryzen is so confusing, the _sg timing doesn't exist!
I don't even know which one is the equivalent!
Does ryzen even use a same bank read read timing?
nvm found out it's _SCL
hey what cards have best GDDR6 Ram temperatures?
MSI-GeForce-RTX-3080-SUPRIM-X-LHR-12GB-
GIGABYTE-GeForce-RTX-3080-AORUS-Master-12GB-
ASUS-RTX-3080-ROG-STRIX-OC-V2-LHR-12GB-
and want the coolest temperatures
because I have already tested 2 other cards, cheaper versions and there it reaches above 96 degrees gddr6x rams and I am not interested in such cards because it is heater at home not a computer ,
I find the documentation that amd provides is pretty random. Some gens the have a bunch some gens nothing.
Intel is pretty good about putting it out for current products. Older product data may or may not stay up on their site. Def download it when you see it.
Anyways thanks for this series it's useful
you ask if your presentation of material makes sense - it absolutely does
except maybe you should rather prepare all examples before video instead of copypasting
can I get a tldr, dont have time
this is already the TL;DR of the JEDEC/DRAM manufacturer docs. If you wanna read a few hundred pages of RAM timings instead of watching the video go for it.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking
Well said. Why did they even bother commenting.
i love this series