I have a traditional underfloor heating system? We have underfloor heating on the ground and first floor and radiators on the second floor can a Mixergy Hot Water Tank work with it?
Great video, thanks :-) One thing that puzzles me is why you wouldn't just divert PV or off-peak electricity to the heat pump (which should be the most efficient) rather that using it to directly heat the hot water in the mixergy?
I have a house with 2 floors and I would need a heat pump that brings us warm water and warms us trough the heating. Wich would be suitable for 2 floors?
Great video. Really clear explanation and clear diagrams. Would this work with a traditional underfloor heating system? We have underfloor heating on the ground and first floor and radiators on the second floor. Our house is ~ 2500 sq ft. We are planning on installing solar pv in the next 2 months or so. We have a 2 year old condenser boiler and are unsure if we should replace now are part of our project or wait until it fails or oil prices skyrocket. Not sure if you will see this but any responses would be appreciated.
Do you have info if I can connect my daikin altherma 3 h ht 18kw with PVC? can it be connected directly or only via brp069a61? I have etvx16s23d9w inside unit 230l boiler... The Daikin at my country doesnt have a clue about PVC :(
Think I need you to come and help me fit mine. ? I'm gas engineer, heat pump course booked may 22 looking like a night already 🤣🤣🤦♂️ Think it will be one of these unit set ups, is after service and tech support good? Mite need them on speed Dail 1 🤣🤣
Hi. I am having trouble with the installation of a altherma unit. The water tank temperature is showing a negative value even when the water temperature is over 20° C. Can anyone help me? Thank you
Love the video and very informative. I am looking at this setup but would like to do it in phases, currently getting some PV and Givenergy Hybrid installed. Next want to install the Mixergy tank and then a ASHP. Any guidance?
Hi David Thank you. The back up heater built into the hydro box is really only there for Defrost mode, when the outdoor unit goes into defrost the backup heater comes on for a short period and maintains system water temperature (but only if required). Also for extreme weather conditions below design temperature and finally for emergency use. Cheers
No. I don’t believe so. HPs are electric. But you can have a bivalent system. Meaning a smaller HP would run for 90% time & gas or oil boiler cover other 10%. But why not get a 100% HP solution?
Hi It’s all about flow rates, each system is different, this property had large 28mm main flow and return pipe work to all areas and then just reduced the last 3-4 metres to each radiator, where as some microbore systems have a manifold with lots of small bore pipe work, so you need to look at the flow rates, the important part is the flow rate around the heat pump, therefore in this case we used a hydraulic break buffer tank. We also increased the size of the circulation pump around the radiators. So this system works very efficiently.
MCS estimate via Ecobubl is 7300kWh per annum. Since April 21 installation, estimated consumption is 2332kWh & we actually used 1567kWh. Difficult to estimate actual COP is somewhere between 3-4.5. We are below estimate consumption. And my wife happy how warm home is. So result 👍
It's an interesting alternative to gas. One thing that concerns me is that it seems a lot more complex than a simple combi boiler, and the more complex something is the more likely it is go wrong if any component fails down the line.
@@solexxx8588 before you slag someone else off, lets do some calculations... In the UK the average price for gas is 3.79p per kWh. For electric it is 17.2p per kWh. A gas boiler is 92% efficient. So for 1kWh of heat energy into the home you will spend 3.79/0.92=4.11p per kWh. A heat pump is about 300% efficient, because it pulls heat out of the atmosphere. But it uses electric. Therefore the price you will pay for 1kWh of heat into your home is 17.2/3 = 5.73p per kWh. So, whilst it is not the 4x as expensive as the person above wrote, neither is it currently cheaper to run a heat pump. It is in fact appropriately 40% more expensive on today's rates. Now, I would accept a statement that says as time goes on gas is likely to rise in price faster than electric, so this difference will reduce and may reverse. But that's not here yet. This is before we factor in large installation costs that we'd have to amortise over the next couple of decades. We haven't also considered the future noise pollution aspects of these things. Anything with a fan will get noisier as it ages. A high quality unit like this one may do better, but as this tech gains popularity, it will definitely spawn cheaper versions which the majority will probably buy. Within a few years the fans on those will all be grumbling away through winter and summer (as people will undoubtedly run them as reverse cycle air con in the summer, thus also increasing fuel usage) and hence cause large scale unpleasant noise pollution for anyone in fairly densely populated areas. It may all be inevitable, but a blanket statement saying they are way better, is definitely not considering all the aspects of these things.
Great video, really useful. I'm thinking of immediately replacing the standard hot water tank in my new build house (if it ever gets finished!) with a Mixergy one, good to see it in action. Probably pros and cons re using a MyEnergi Eddi Vs Mixergy
Hi Edward Many thanks, yes we think it’s a great product. You still require a solar diverter device to work with the Mixergy tank, such as a MyEnergi Eddi or iboost
@@ecobubl hi, does the Daikin Altherma monobloc 3 support communication with the Myenergi Eddi though? I'm looking to get an install of a Daikin ASHP powered via my solar PV. I like the look of the Mixergy cylinder and the idea of the Eddi utilising excess solar but need to ensure all 3 work together
@@stupidusername38 the daikin M does have Solar integration of its own, however we have never used this functionality, if using the Mixergy cylinder, the best way is to allow the Eddi device to charge the cylinder all day and then program the Mixergy tank to charge the cylinder late afternoon/early evening to recharge the cylinder with the heat pump if the required temperature hasn’t been reached by the Eddi device, the Eddi will always look to charge the cylinder to 100% if solar energy is available.
Daikin`s requirements are a minimum 20 litre system water volume, the important thing is the buffer tank is a hydraulic break to allow the heat pump to circulate freely
Hi, really enjoy your videos and this one was no exception! Can you please explain the need for a plate heat exchanger between the H HT and the Mixergy tank please?
Hi Philip . Many thanks for your lovely comments. Mixergy have chosen to use a plate heater exchanger to transfer the heat from the heat pump into the cylinder, instead of using a coil, they feel its a more efficient way of heating the cylinder.
Hi Heather Yes the heat pump was running, it’s very quiet, you can’t hear the sound of the video, when it’s cold the noise level is louder, however it’s one of the quietest heat pumps on the market. Thanks for watching.
@@ecobubl you can bet your life it won't be so quiet in 5 and 10 years time when those fan bearings start grumbling away and there's a little bit of detritis unbalancing those fan blades. This installation might be one of the higher quality ones too, but give it half a decade and the cheap set will be in there and the majority of people will install those. Within three years they'll sound dreadful. Imagine that in every back garden up and down the uk. Unless we do something in legislation about this the noise pollution aspect of these things is going to be horrendous. I've been to China, Hong Kong and many other places that have aircon units hanging off buildings all over and know what they sound like. It will transform the uk if we allow that to happen, and not in a good way.
Good evening, good, good, good !! I must first congratulate you because it is very rare to find a very young beautiful girl so well prepared and above all installer of PDC hydraulic systems. I confess that in Italy I don't think there are any. Congratulations aside, we come to the preface and lastly the question. My home is located in Italy (Lombardy, province of Pavia precisely in Vigevano). In the heart of the Po Valley, with a very humid climate, in winter the minimum temperatures are around -3 ° / -4 ° for only a few days. The house dates back to the early 1900s, in 2000 it underwent a renovation without energy saving interventions. The walls are solid brick (ground floor 40 cm thick), (first floor 25 cm thick). Ground floor dwelling meters about 150 square meters. first floor about 120 sq. m. mansardina 70 sq. m. Heating with cast iron radiators. Currently methane power supply water temperature 60 ° and internal house 22 ° constant from 5.00 in the morning to 21.00 in the evening remaining placed at 19 ° Nest chronothermostats (one ground floor and one first floor). I would like to use state incentives to redevelop the property: A) Outer coat I think Caparol capatec pu class SK lambda 0.025 with graphite thickness 14 cm. B) Sunpower photovoltaic system Maxeon 5 AC module, yield about 415 Watt per panel. I was thinking of installing about 10 Kw with ABB batteries. C) VMC of Kelty or Suedwind D) Daikin air conditioners, 2 external units and 6 internal units mod. Emura. E) we come to the hard rock, they want me to install a Daikin hybrid system. I would like to switch to a PDC and eliminate the gas. Replace the cast iron radiators with Irsap steel radiators model Tesi, increasing the elements a lot in order to decrease the water delivery temperature. At this point I need your advice from you, you have seen that you always use Daikin, I think you are an official partner. I have seen many brands of PDC I do not list them. What would you install between Daikin and Stiebel-eltron? Best regards and thanks Massimo Sigolotto Italia - massimo.sigolotto@gmail.com
@@stupidusername38 this depends what temperature you are running your heat at, a high temperature high pump is more efficient at 55dc, than a low temp at 55dc., even at 65dc, the scop is 2.9.
@@ecobubl yes but ascetically speaking it looks out of place , I know it’s a emergency disconnect but there are other options that don’t make it stand out so much or enclose it so rouges don’t flip the switch in the night that’s what I am trying to say
I can’t see why the Mixenergy cylinder is worth the extra money saving only 20% of a gas bill DHW cost on average £160 per year Is it really worth the time effort and money for some gadgets
The hydro box, contains the circulation pump, expansion vessel, back up heater and PCB board controls. It’s controls and pumps the water around your heating system.
How do you calculate your coefficient of performance? If, as in common with the rest of the heat pump imdustry, your use as the basis the electricity used, this is very flattering to you figures. Electricity is, of course, not energy but an energy carrier. The losses in generation, transmission and distribution is conservatively 50%, which halves your cop figure. Is the heat output measured in a calorimeter or calculated?. With current government policies, electrcity is set to rise in cost quite steadily and, in my opinion, makes heatpumps prohibitively expensive to run.
Except, in the case of the electricity industry (and any other utility), the meter is inside your home. Losses in generation, transmission and distribution are not billed directly to the customer. As most people don't give a toss about those un-metered losses, they are of course not included in the COP calculation. COP calculations are only important to the homeowner when comparing cost per kWh of heat of different heating systems, but you know that already.
Hugh, except that COO and efficiency are mistakenly assumed to be the same. In the U.k. and probably elsewhere the choice of selecting what sort of heating we wish to use is being removed. We are being forced to buy the far more expensive, for most, heat pumps. Gas is far cheaper and much more effective.
@@iareid8255 Get an SCOP of 3.5 out of your air-source and at current gas/electric prices you're even with gas. Pre-april (price cap changes) then I'd agree with you, gas was cheaper, but from now on and going forwards the balance is swinging. I've done the sums extensively for my property (based on last years gas consumption off my smart meter) and I'd be looking at a saving of around £300, not including getting rid of the standing charge as we cook on electric. Given that my property desperately needs a new CH system and I'm about to tear it apart for extensive renovations anyway, it makes sense to DIY my own air source install. It isn't right for everyone, and every install is different, but to say 'gas is cheaper' isn't always true.
Hugh, yes, every situation is different and my comment was generalisation, given the number of old UK houses. With our governments energy policy electricity is going to steadily increase in price. Gas is volatile but if sense prevails we should have our own supplies. Still it is a bit of a lottery. You are working on the highest COP for air source, cold weather drops it down significantly. Having built my own extension (80 sw M), I know how much work it is, good luck.
Hi David Yes, depending on size of heat pump, cylinder and works involved, you should expect to pay between £12,500 to £16,000 We would estimate running cost between £800 -£1500per year, again depending on heat loss of the property.
@@ecobubl thanks. And then RHI payments could be up to £9k over the next 7 years? Shame the other scheme ended as the upfront costs are so much more than a gas boiler, but just doesn’t seem right to replace our failing boiler with a gas one! Is it best to send an enquiry via your website to get a detailed quote etc?
Straightforward informative information and advice as usual 🙂 Isn't electric heating very expensive to run though? I have installed solar pv recently, but frankly I wouldn't expect much from it in the cold winter months ❄️😱🙏🤣
Hi Mark Thanks for your comments, the great thing about this cylinder is, you can swap the heat source used to charge the cylinder, therefore swap to the cheapest rate.
@tipperary Mick i have just had my Mixergy tank installed. it can heat the water via the gas boiler ( and other methods ) and the electric immersion using Octopus Agile smart technology. tonight 21st May it will be heating the water at 0p/kWh. PV will be installed later in the year and that will also heat the water in the tank.
@@ianrobins5501 That's fantastic 👍 All these new technologies, it's hard to keep up, sometimes the jargon is deliberately designed to confuse. That's why I like these guys, and girls 👍😁 Straightforward advice you can actually make sense of. If I lived in the UK I would definitely be giving them a call.
Trying and failing to get a heat pump sort for my terraced house, why is it so hard just to get a survey and quotes etc. Gary Gray Middlesbrough. (yes yes it's a sh/thole, someones gotta live here! 😘 Ps That girl in your videos Daaaaaaam! 😍🤩😍🤩😍
“Have we got enough hot water” ? Seriously, when does anyone with a combi gas boiler ever have to ask that question? We have a huge tank at our house in Spain. It’s a pain, having to wait for it to recharge if someone has a bath. It runs out regularly. No thanks to tanks. I will be keeping my gas combi for as long as I possibly can, here in the uk.
Hi @RegPlate, the Mixergy cylinder is the only hot water cylinder on the market which has a visible state of charge which allows you to see how much hot water you have available within the cylinder (taking away shower anxiety) via the controller or the Mixergy app. Mixergy also uses an algorithm to understand your hot water usage pattern and only heats what you require (plus a small contingency volume). You can boost if required via the side controller or app if you have visitors etc. If your boiler is >18kW the Mixergy cylinder will in effect act as an instantaneous water heater as the water is heated five times quicker than a standard cylinder due to the internal design and volumetric heating pattern. Combi boilers typically run at full output for hot water production, using Mixergy cylinders can typically reduce gas usage by ~14% over the use of a combi. Mixergy cylinders are future proof for use with gas/hydrogen boilers, direct electric, solar PV and all Mixergy cylinders are heat pump ready. The Energy Savings Trust have tested Mixergy cylinders and found Mixergy cylinders can save ~20% on the cost of hot water production via only heating the hot water volume required and the reduction in gas boiler short cycling energysavingtrust.org.uk/products/mixergy-hot-water-tank-cylinder/
The Mixergy predicts your hot water demand. In summer water it is heated by immersion via Solic 2 from solar PV. In winter, ASHP heats over night when electric cheap (Octopus tariff I’m on). But heats based on estimate demand based on usage. So you don’t run out. We have 180L slim Mixergy cylinder. But there are larger and smaller models
I realise I’m lucky where I live, but this is a larger unit than most due to heat demand of my home. We have to stop burning stuff. Each person can do their bit to reduce their CO2 output e.g. solar PV, insulate more, turn your boiler temperature down, so it runs more efficiently, switch to EVs, eat less meat, walk more….
@Damian, I am sure his electric bill will be significantly lower than his old oil bill given they've removed an old oil boiler to install the new system.
I realise I’m lucky and can pay. I think the cost of running the ASHP will be about the same as the oil boiler. Government needs to move the green eco taxes away from electric and into gas and oil to encourage the switch. Early days (7 months in) but I am using less electric than predicted and my wife says the home is warm. And producing less CO2. Winner!! 😊
Elsewhere on this thread I've posted a calculation of how much more (per 1kWh of heat into the home) it would cost in electric vs gas to run a heat pump rather than a combi. This is not including any installation cost (which a householder would obviously factor in). 1kWh of heat energy from gas is about 4.11p, based on average gas prices. 1kWh from a heat pump.is about 5.73p based on average electric prices. So it is currently about 40% more expensive. You can bet that over time gas will become more pricey though, in comparison to electric, maybe even via tax, as they push for people to convert. So more expensive, but maybe not as much as you expected. There are other problems with the tech though, one of which I also outline in my other post.
@@belvedere5947 good points Bel. I am comparing to an oil boiler. Oil prices are very high. And very high CO2 emissions. I’m am currently using 50% less electric than predicted by MCS (we can separately debate the accuracy of the estimate) but this means my costs are lower than my previous oil.
Can the Mixergy cylinder also work with a Daikin Altherma monobloc rather than the split? I'm interested in this ASHP cylinder combo but don't want the additional internal box. Also I thought the Mixergy was smart enough to monitor the Octopus Agile tariffs so that it dynamically turns on and off with the lower electric tariff. Why would i then need an additional EDDI?
Hi Yes the mixergy cylinder can be used with the Daikin monobloc heat pump, fits with most manufacturers. The Eddi will give you free solar energy from your PV system, will charge the cylinder fully.
this video has will no doubt save me a fortune! thank you for sharing your professional knowledge.
Thank you for watching 😀👍
Many thanks for the video I’ve been on so many training courses to be qualified to fit these systems and never got practical
Hi Jason
Many thanks, the systems are very easy to install. We have done other videos on some of the other Daikin heat pumps.
I can't thank you enough for this informative and educational video
Thank you 😊
I have a traditional underfloor heating system? We have underfloor heating on the ground and first floor and radiators on the second floor can a Mixergy Hot Water Tank work with it?
Excellent presentation !
Great video, thanks :-) One thing that puzzles me is why you wouldn't just divert PV or off-peak electricity to the heat pump (which should be the most efficient) rather that using it to directly heat the hot water in the mixergy?
Love watching your videos! Crazy amount off information you know
I was getting into this right up to the moment you said Wendy house. It’s a den…. A den… or a box fort at a push.
I have a house with 2 floors and I would need a heat pump that brings us warm water and warms us trough the heating. Wich would be suitable for 2 floors?
Great video. Really clear explanation and clear diagrams.
Would this work with a traditional underfloor heating system? We have underfloor heating on the ground and first floor and radiators on the second floor. Our house is ~ 2500 sq ft.
We are planning on installing solar pv in the next 2 months or so.
We have a 2 year old condenser boiler and are unsure if we should replace now are part of our project or wait until it fails or oil prices skyrocket.
Not sure if you will see this but any responses would be appreciated.
This is a great video. Shows what can be done with off gas homes!
Thanks Tom, glad you enjoyed our video.
Whats the total cost of installed system?
Great presentation, greeting from Slovenia Daikin installer
Thank You. we love Slovenia, really want to move there one day, have visited many times. 😀
Very clever girl and cute 😊
How come there are no videos installing in the US?
Do you have info if I can connect my daikin altherma 3 h ht 18kw with PVC? can it be connected directly or only via brp069a61?
I have etvx16s23d9w inside unit 230l boiler...
The Daikin at my country doesnt have a clue about PVC :(
Think I need you to come and help me fit mine. ? I'm gas engineer, heat pump course booked may 22 looking like a night already 🤣🤣🤦♂️
Think it will be one of these unit set ups, is after service and tech support good? Mite need them on speed Dail 1 🤣🤣
Hi. I am having trouble with the installation of a altherma unit. The water tank temperature is showing a negative value even when the water temperature is over 20° C. Can anyone help me? Thank you
Awesome looking install.
Love the video and very informative. I am looking at this setup but would like to do it in phases, currently getting some PV and Givenergy Hybrid installed. Next want to install the Mixergy tank and then a ASHP. Any guidance?
Great to chat on the phone earlier 😀
Excellent job!
Many thanks
Very informative as always. Curious about the back up heaters. An the Mixenergy Tank very interesting.
Hi David
Thank you.
The back up heater built into the hydro box is really only there for Defrost mode, when the outdoor unit goes into defrost the backup heater comes on for a short period and maintains system water temperature (but only if required). Also for extreme weather conditions below design temperature and finally for emergency use. Cheers
Can one choose between gas and electricity to power a heatpump?
No. I don’t believe so. HPs are electric. But you can have a bivalent system. Meaning a smaller HP would run for 90% time & gas or oil boiler cover other 10%. But why not get a 100% HP solution?
What does the weather compensation on this system?
The heat pump has built in weather comp, monitors the outdoor temp off the heat pump.
So you can use on existing 10mm pipe ? Does this effect COP ?
Hi
It’s all about flow rates, each system is different, this property had large 28mm main flow and return pipe work to all areas and then just reduced the last 3-4 metres to each radiator, where as some microbore systems have a manifold with lots of small bore pipe work, so you need to look at the flow rates, the important part is the flow rate around the heat pump, therefore in this case we used a hydraulic break buffer tank. We also increased the size of the circulation pump around the radiators. So this system works very efficiently.
MCS estimate via Ecobubl is 7300kWh per annum. Since April 21 installation, estimated consumption is 2332kWh & we actually used 1567kWh. Difficult to estimate actual COP is somewhere between 3-4.5. We are below estimate consumption. And my wife happy how warm home is. So result 👍
@@juliandclarke thank you so much for this information, its very useful for our RUclips followers.
It's an interesting alternative to gas. One thing that concerns me is that it seems a lot more complex than a simple combi boiler, and the more complex something is the more likely it is go wrong if any component fails down the line.
It costs 4 times as much to run as gas or oil, that is not my idea of an alternative.
@@cuckingfunt9353 Because you are a heating engineer? I didn't think so. Get educated. Heat pump technology is far better than anything else.
Ecobubl MCS annual energy estimate was 7500kWh. 7 months in we are at 802 compared to 1185 kWh predicted to date. Used to use 12-1500L oil / year
@@solexxx8588 before you slag someone else off, lets do some calculations...
In the UK the average price for gas is 3.79p per kWh. For electric it is 17.2p per kWh.
A gas boiler is 92% efficient. So for 1kWh of heat energy into the home you will spend 3.79/0.92=4.11p per kWh.
A heat pump is about 300% efficient, because it pulls heat out of the atmosphere. But it uses electric. Therefore the price you will pay for 1kWh of heat into your home is 17.2/3 = 5.73p per kWh.
So, whilst it is not the 4x as expensive as the person above wrote, neither is it currently cheaper to run a heat pump. It is in fact appropriately 40% more expensive on today's rates.
Now, I would accept a statement that says as time goes on gas is likely to rise in price faster than electric, so this difference will reduce and may reverse. But that's not here yet. This is before we factor in large installation costs that we'd have to amortise over the next couple of decades.
We haven't also considered the future noise pollution aspects of these things. Anything with a fan will get noisier as it ages. A high quality unit like this one may do better, but as this tech gains popularity, it will definitely spawn cheaper versions which the majority will probably buy. Within a few years the fans on those will all be grumbling away through winter and summer (as people will undoubtedly run them as reverse cycle air con in the summer, thus also increasing fuel usage) and hence cause large scale unpleasant noise pollution for anyone in fairly densely populated areas.
It may all be inevitable, but a blanket statement saying they are way better, is definitely not considering all the aspects of these things.
@@cuckingfunt9353 I've just read an article from a reputable source saying that the price of heating oil has quadrupled.....
How much does an install like this cost
£12,500- £16,000
Great video, really useful. I'm thinking of immediately replacing the standard hot water tank in my new build house (if it ever gets finished!) with a Mixergy one, good to see it in action. Probably pros and cons re using a MyEnergi Eddi Vs Mixergy
Hi Edward
Many thanks, yes we think it’s a great product. You still require a solar diverter device to work with the Mixergy tank, such as a MyEnergi Eddi or iboost
@@ecobubl hi, does the Daikin Altherma monobloc 3 support communication with the Myenergi Eddi though? I'm looking to get an install of a Daikin ASHP powered via my solar PV. I like the look of the Mixergy cylinder and the idea of the Eddi utilising excess solar but need to ensure all 3 work together
@@stupidusername38 the daikin M does have Solar integration of its own, however we have never used this functionality, if using the Mixergy cylinder, the best way is to allow the Eddi device to charge the cylinder all day and then program the Mixergy tank to charge the cylinder late afternoon/early evening to recharge the cylinder with the heat pump if the required temperature hasn’t been reached by the Eddi device, the Eddi will always look to charge the cylinder to 100% if solar energy is available.
Could you advise how you size the buffer tanks for these systems?
Daikin`s requirements are a minimum 20 litre system water volume, the important thing is the buffer tank is a hydraulic break to allow the heat pump to circulate freely
Hi, really enjoy your videos and this one was no exception! Can you please explain the need for a plate heat exchanger between the H HT and the Mixergy tank please?
Hi Philip . Many thanks for your lovely comments.
Mixergy have chosen to use a plate heater exchanger to transfer the heat from the heat pump into the cylinder, instead of using a coil, they feel its a more efficient way of heating the cylinder.
Is the heat pump on when you are interviewing at the end? Is it really that quiet?
Hi Heather
Yes the heat pump was running, it’s very quiet, you can’t hear the sound of the video, when it’s cold the noise level is louder, however it’s one of the quietest heat pumps on the market.
Thanks for watching.
Yes very quiet. At full power, you can’t hear it the other side of the gate
@@ecobubl you can bet your life it won't be so quiet in 5 and 10 years time when those fan bearings start grumbling away and there's a little bit of detritis unbalancing those fan blades.
This installation might be one of the higher quality ones too, but give it half a decade and the cheap set will be in there and the majority of people will install those. Within three years they'll sound dreadful. Imagine that in every back garden up and down the uk. Unless we do something in legislation about this the noise pollution aspect of these things is going to be horrendous. I've been to China, Hong Kong and many other places that have aircon units hanging off buildings all over and know what they sound like. It will transform the uk if we allow that to happen, and not in a good way.
You've got solar on the roof that's cool and that's all know about. Haha...😄👍
Good evening, good, good, good !! I must first congratulate you because it is very rare to find a very young beautiful girl so well prepared and above all installer of PDC hydraulic systems. I confess that in Italy I don't think there are any.
Congratulations aside, we come to the preface and lastly the question.
My home is located in Italy (Lombardy, province of Pavia precisely in Vigevano).
In the heart of the Po Valley, with a very humid climate, in winter the minimum temperatures are around -3 ° / -4 ° for only a few days.
The house dates back to the early 1900s, in 2000 it underwent a renovation without energy saving interventions.
The walls are solid brick (ground floor 40 cm thick), (first floor 25 cm thick). Ground floor dwelling meters about 150 square meters. first floor about 120 sq. m. mansardina 70 sq. m. Heating with cast iron radiators.
Currently methane power supply water temperature 60 ° and internal house 22 ° constant from 5.00 in the morning to 21.00 in the evening remaining placed at 19 ° Nest chronothermostats (one ground floor and one first floor).
I would like to use state incentives to redevelop the property:
A) Outer coat I think Caparol capatec pu class SK lambda 0.025 with graphite thickness 14 cm.
B) Sunpower photovoltaic system Maxeon 5 AC module, yield about 415 Watt per panel. I was thinking of installing about 10 Kw with ABB batteries.
C) VMC of Kelty or Suedwind
D) Daikin air conditioners, 2 external units and 6 internal units mod. Emura.
E) we come to the hard rock, they want me to install a Daikin hybrid system. I would like to switch to a PDC and eliminate the gas. Replace the cast iron radiators with Irsap steel radiators model Tesi, increasing the elements a lot in order to decrease the water delivery temperature.
At this point I need your advice from you, you have seen that you always use Daikin, I think you are an official partner.
I have seen many brands of PDC I do not list them. What would you install between Daikin and Stiebel-eltron?
Best regards and thanks
Massimo Sigolotto Italia - massimo.sigolotto@gmail.com
What size buffer tank did you use and I assume it is a four port for full hydraulic separation?
Hi Jason. Yes you’re correct, and the buffer is 25litre, working great.
Would you be confident of using a low temperature heat pump in this house assuming radiators are up sized pump microbore retained?
@@jasonlewis4686 hmm, high temperature would always work best, helps push the heat round, definitely upsize the pump around the rads.
@@ecobubl but doesn't high temperature use more electric reducing your COP?
@@stupidusername38 this depends what temperature you are running your heat at, a high temperature high pump is more efficient at 55dc, than a low temp at 55dc., even at 65dc, the scop is 2.9.
Why no weather proof cover on the outdoor switch ?
Because its a weather proof switch! IP65 rated
@@ecobubl yes but ascetically speaking it looks out of place , I know it’s a emergency disconnect but there are other options that don’t make it stand out so much or enclose it so rouges don’t flip the switch in the night that’s what I am trying to say
I can’t see why the Mixenergy cylinder is worth the extra money saving only 20% of a gas bill
DHW cost on average £160 per year
Is it really worth the time effort and money for some gadgets
Hi what does the hydrobox do?
The hydro box, contains the circulation pump, expansion vessel, back up heater and PCB board controls.
It’s controls and pumps the water around your heating system.
With the Air Source Heat Pump, adjacent to the property it would be a lot neater if the ‘Indoor Unit’ was integrated into the ASHP enclosure.
Hi Norman, I think Daikin offer this unit as a monobloc so no need for the internal unit
How do you calculate your coefficient of performance?
If, as in common with the rest of the heat pump imdustry, your use as the basis the electricity used, this is very flattering to you figures. Electricity is, of course, not energy but an energy carrier. The losses in generation, transmission and distribution is conservatively 50%, which halves your cop figure.
Is the heat output measured in a calorimeter or calculated?.
With current government policies, electrcity is set to rise in cost quite steadily and, in my opinion, makes heatpumps prohibitively expensive to run.
Except, in the case of the electricity industry (and any other utility), the meter is inside your home. Losses in generation, transmission and distribution are not billed directly to the customer. As most people don't give a toss about those un-metered losses, they are of course not included in the COP calculation. COP calculations are only important to the homeowner when comparing cost per kWh of heat of different heating systems, but you know that already.
Hugh,
except that COO and efficiency are mistakenly assumed to be the same.
In the U.k. and probably elsewhere the choice of selecting what sort of heating we wish to use is being removed. We are being forced to buy the far more expensive, for most, heat pumps. Gas is far cheaper and much more effective.
@@iareid8255 Get an SCOP of 3.5 out of your air-source and at current gas/electric prices you're even with gas. Pre-april (price cap changes) then I'd agree with you, gas was cheaper, but from now on and going forwards the balance is swinging. I've done the sums extensively for my property (based on last years gas consumption off my smart meter) and I'd be looking at a saving of around £300, not including getting rid of the standing charge as we cook on electric. Given that my property desperately needs a new CH system and I'm about to tear it apart for extensive renovations anyway, it makes sense to DIY my own air source install. It isn't right for everyone, and every install is different, but to say 'gas is cheaper' isn't always true.
Hugh,
yes, every situation is different and my comment was generalisation, given the number of old UK houses.
With our governments energy policy electricity is going to steadily increase in price. Gas is volatile but if sense prevails we should have our own supplies. Still it is a bit of a lottery.
You are working on the highest COP for air source, cold weather drops it down significantly.
Having built my own extension (80 sw M), I know how much work it is, good luck.
Interesting stuff, can you share ball park figures for installation and running cost?
Hi David
Yes, depending on size of heat pump, cylinder and works involved, you should expect to pay between £12,500 to £16,000
We would estimate running cost between £800 -£1500per year, again depending on heat loss of the property.
@@ecobubl thanks. And then RHI payments could be up to £9k over the next 7 years? Shame the other scheme ended as the upfront costs are so much more than a gas boiler, but just doesn’t seem right to replace our failing boiler with a gas one! Is it best to send an enquiry via your website to get a detailed quote etc?
@@dcsh78 hi David I’m not sure if your based in our area, but I’m afraid we only cover the south of the Uk www.ecobubl.co.uk/send-a-heat-pump-enquiry
@@ecobubl OK, great, we are in Bath.
@@dcsh78 oh that’s great, please feel free to complete our online form. Kind regards Martin
Straightforward informative information and advice as usual 🙂
Isn't electric heating very expensive to run though? I have installed solar pv recently, but frankly I wouldn't expect much from it in the cold winter months ❄️😱🙏🤣
Hi Mark
Thanks for your comments, the great thing about this cylinder is, you can swap the heat source used to charge the cylinder, therefore swap to the cheapest rate.
@tipperary Mick i have just had my Mixergy tank installed. it can heat the water via the gas boiler ( and other methods ) and the electric immersion using Octopus Agile smart technology. tonight 21st May it will be heating the water at 0p/kWh. PV will be installed later in the year and that will also heat the water in the tank.
@@ianrobins5501 That's fantastic 👍 All these new technologies, it's hard to keep up, sometimes the jargon is deliberately designed to confuse. That's why I like these guys, and girls 👍😁 Straightforward advice you can actually make sense of. If I lived in the UK I would definitely be giving them a call.
What is COP for the pump?
At 55dc = 3.45, at 65dc = 2.92
@@ecobubl
How do you measure this coefficiency of performance?
19.5 for living areas. Brrrrr! Life is too short for skimping on the heat.
How are low income families going to afford these systems?
19.5 degrees and my wife would divorce me! Our house has to be 22 degrees but then we are getting old 51 year married.
🇹🇷🤳👍🛠️
Trying and failing to get a heat pump sort for my terraced house, why is it so hard just to get a survey and quotes etc. Gary Gray Middlesbrough. (yes yes it's a sh/thole, someones gotta live here! 😘 Ps That girl in your videos Daaaaaaam! 😍🤩😍🤩😍
“Have we got enough hot water” ? Seriously, when does anyone with a combi gas boiler ever have to ask that question? We have a huge tank at our house in Spain. It’s a pain, having to wait for it to recharge if someone has a bath. It runs out regularly. No thanks to tanks. I will be keeping my gas combi for as long as I possibly can, here in the uk.
Hi @RegPlate, the Mixergy cylinder is the only hot water cylinder on the market which has a visible state of charge which allows you to see how much hot water you have available within the cylinder (taking away shower anxiety) via the controller or the Mixergy app. Mixergy also uses an algorithm to understand your hot water usage pattern and only heats what you require (plus a small contingency volume). You can boost if required via the side controller or app if you have visitors etc. If your boiler is >18kW the Mixergy cylinder will in effect act as an instantaneous water heater as the water is heated five times quicker than a standard cylinder due to the internal design and volumetric heating pattern. Combi boilers typically run at full output for hot water production, using Mixergy cylinders can typically reduce gas usage by ~14% over the use of a combi. Mixergy cylinders are future proof for use with gas/hydrogen boilers, direct electric, solar PV and all Mixergy cylinders are heat pump ready. The Energy Savings Trust have tested Mixergy cylinders and found Mixergy cylinders can save ~20% on the cost of hot water production via only heating the hot water volume required and the reduction in gas boiler short cycling energysavingtrust.org.uk/products/mixergy-hot-water-tank-cylinder/
The Mixergy predicts your hot water demand. In summer water it is heated by immersion via Solic 2 from solar PV. In winter, ASHP heats over night when electric cheap (Octopus tariff I’m on). But heats based on estimate demand based on usage. So you don’t run out. We have 180L slim Mixergy cylinder. But there are larger and smaller models
The vast majority of homes in Britain don't have room for this monstrosity. Banning gas boiler's by 2030 is ridiculous.
I realise I’m lucky where I live, but this is a larger unit than most due to heat demand of my home. We have to stop burning stuff. Each person can do their bit to reduce their CO2 output e.g. solar PV, insulate more, turn your boiler temperature down, so it runs more efficiently, switch to EVs, eat less meat, walk more….
Wait until he starts getting his electricity bills. I'll stick with my condensing boiler if it's all the same.
@Damian, I am sure his electric bill will be significantly lower than his old oil bill given they've removed an old oil boiler to install the new system.
His bill might be lower but will he be able to pay it!
I realise I’m lucky and can pay. I think the cost of running the ASHP will be about the same as the oil boiler. Government needs to move the green eco taxes away from electric and into gas and oil to encourage the switch. Early days (7 months in) but I am using less electric than predicted and my wife says the home is warm. And producing less CO2. Winner!! 😊
Elsewhere on this thread I've posted a calculation of how much more (per 1kWh of heat into the home) it would cost in electric vs gas to run a heat pump rather than a combi. This is not including any installation cost (which a householder would obviously factor in).
1kWh of heat energy from gas is about 4.11p, based on average gas prices. 1kWh from a heat pump.is about 5.73p based on average electric prices. So it is currently about 40% more expensive. You can bet that over time gas will become more pricey though, in comparison to electric, maybe even via tax, as they push for people to convert. So more expensive, but maybe not as much as you expected. There are other problems with the tech though, one of which I also outline in my other post.
@@belvedere5947 good points Bel. I am comparing to an oil boiler. Oil prices are very high. And very high CO2 emissions. I’m am currently using 50% less electric than predicted by MCS (we can separately debate the accuracy of the estimate) but this means my costs are lower than my previous oil.
Can the Mixergy cylinder also work with a Daikin Altherma monobloc rather than the split? I'm interested in this ASHP cylinder combo but don't want the additional internal box. Also I thought the Mixergy was smart enough to monitor the Octopus Agile tariffs so that it dynamically turns on and off with the lower electric tariff. Why would i then need an additional EDDI?
Hi
Yes the mixergy cylinder can be used with the Daikin monobloc heat pump, fits with most manufacturers.
The Eddi will give you free solar energy from your PV system, will charge the cylinder fully.