You might add all the deckbuilding videos into a separate playlist so all the fans like me can find them very easily any time! :) Thanks for the great content guys and keep up with it!
The only problem with trying to get lesser cmc spells in your deck that function the same as high cmc ones is that they're typically more expensive. Sometimes, *really* expensive. So I usually resort to a ton of ramp in my decks that have green, because while it make take up more spell slots, at least I don't have to blow a bunch of money to effectively do the same thing
This is a great strategy. I play an Imoti deck that doubles mana as like a budget form of Kinnan, and I play like 16 to 20 ramp spells. It takes a little longer than Kinnan, but in a meta with no land destruction it works great, and my deck is $200 instead of my friends $2k.
For example you don't always have to run mana rocks Animar is one of the best decks for budget decks that doesn't run any of the super expensive cards because most of the ramp is mana dorks
@Chandra’s_Bro_17 I don't mean commanders, but the actual mana rocks themselves. Not everyone can afford Mana Crypts and Mana Vaults and Jeweled Lotuses and such
@@BigBidoof Lol. Honestly I just listened to this while I was working to see if I could pickup on something new. I didn't really hear anything new except for basing mana ramp off of the commanders cmc. Although I disagree. I think it's far more productive to base that off of the entire mana curve and 4-5 cost ramp really isn't worth it.
I always think of lands that enter tapped as 1-drop spells. You are effectively paying 1 for that extra value you get, whether it’s a temple, or a bounce land, or an MDFC, etc.
As a long time casual commander player, started playing at tenth edition, I keep clicking to your videos and constantly learning new things. Just gained a new subscriber my good people! 🎉
When I first started playing Commander two years ago, I tended to have 14 pieces of ramp and 36 lands. Now I am finding that I am using more two mana ramp with 16 pieces of ramp and 34 lands or a lot of card draw to consistently make land drops. A part of this is because of MDFCs and the games ending sooner than it did back then. Also, I use to have 3.3 - 4.0 average CMC and now it's more like 2.5 - 3.5. Because of your original podcast about mana curve, it helped me think about playing appropriate ramp for the deck. Gargos was one of my favorite commanders. Originally I played T2 Rampant Growth into T3 Explosive Vegetation. Now it's T1 Llanowar Elves into T2 Llanowar Tribe so that he comes down consistently on turn 3-4 instead of turn 4-6.
Just watched your videos going over possible mistakes you guys made during game knights and loved them. Please make more of them. Really helps going back and looking into them more to help me learn to break down scenarios more in depth to make decisions.
Careful when reducing mana curves! Cheaper effects need to be impactful and your deck need more cards velocity and advantage to keep up the value train. Reducing mana curve is not a universal advice: it comes with a cost of time in deck building, a weaker late game, a dilution of the theme of the deck and a monetary cost.
I just checked my decks, and I am nowhere near 10/18/18 in CMC 1/2/3 in my decks. That would be way to restricting and would cost way too much actual money to put together. You guys have crazy decks in my opinion. I know it could be much more efficient or just based on crazy combos, but this is top tier stuff and not casual. Stuff like Manavault for instance .. is just way too good and a must have if your playgroups is on that level. Very high power level!
I remember way back when I was learning magic on Arena, I was playing blue, game was going well and punching face, but at one point I just ran out of cards to play. I kept drawing lands, and the spells I did play were really low value. Just when I thought my opponent has a board to threaten me, I draw a big dragon, like 1 Red 7 Mana, and I drop it. That's what sealed the game for me. Cheap cards get you ahead, big cards lets you finish the game
One of my favorite lower cmc spells is Quest for Pure Flame which is a 1-drop that often gets forgotten about right up until it doubles your burn damage to insta-kill everyone at the table.
56:05 This is part of why I think my favorite big spell these days is Reshape the Earth. Getting any 10 lands out of your deck is a big game and they're very hard to interact with; you can put combos in like Dark Depths/Thespian Stage, but even just a bunch of utility lands (maybe some that can draw you cards) plus a Field of the Dead to make 10 zombies and you're set to win that game and the chance of a blowout is much lower than other big spells.
Same with Muldrotha the Gravetide. I only play her at 6 mana if I have Tatyova, Benthic Druid in play and a fetch in the graveyard. Otherwise, kind of a dead play and target.
When I first got into playing magic the gathering, mana curve was one of the first things I have mastered. Took sometime but I got done. So it's good to see and hear some people's tips, tricks, and knowledge
to me, one of my big level up moments was watching your stats episode a long time ago where you analyzed how many 6 and 7 drops people play per game. Instead of stuffing my deck with them, i focused my deck on doing basic stuff like drawing, ramping etc, then included ways to get the 2 or 3 high mana value cards (e.g. tutors) so that if i feel like it’s time to play them i can get them
I really love how Giada, Font of Hope supports the mana curve. Having a guaranteed 2 drop that you can tap for mana helps with the heavy cost of angel creatures! Also looking forward to the upcoming rat tribal deck, which will have a super low mana curve because rats are so tiny lol
I love your content, you all seem like such nice people. You all inspired me to play magic and especially commander. You guys are making some of the best magic content on RUclips. And to answer any questioning thoughts. We can see how much time and effort you all put into your love for this amazing game. Hope and wish all the best for everyone at the Command Zone.
I only have 7 EDH decks. I love what J.L.K. said in a previous video,"limitation breeds creativity". In the majority of my decks, there are few cards that exceed my commanders mana value. This forces me to stay within a certain curve. Theory,proven. 😁
That’s actually why I don’t proxy cards (though idk if my opponents do). If I think a card is overpriced, it forces me to find an alternative and sometimes leads me down avenues I would not have considered otherwise.
Great video! I think you should make a "mastering your draw" video. I used to not balance mana x draw in my decks and recently, I've been adopting some repeatable draw 1 effects in many forms (Bonders' Encalve, Endless Atlas, War Room, etc) and it's been making my games much more consistent, and I think it's a skill every player would benefit from learning.
“Mono-white not really cEDH level”…tell that to Charles and the others 😋 *laughs in Oswald and Teshar* haha. Had to poke a little bit! Love the content! Another great episode 😁 Keep up the great work
Jesper Ejsing undestood it all in 2020. Speed vs power is a huge topic in EDH. I love to stay low in the curve because reach the point of casting multiple spells during a turn or hold mana to interact without stop your gameplan is priceless. However, I've seen myself just lacking power if games go for too long and that sometimes is rough. About what JLK ask about land count. I like to stay in healthy 36, but I''ve recently being adding more voice of torment effects to my decks. It's really satisfying to replace cards I don't need and immediately being able to cast the new cards in hand
Scavenging ooze is a card that scales insanely into the late game. And yeah I absolutely feel that lowering of land count! My main deck muldrotha which I have still her release had in the beginning about 38 lands and now it only have about 34 or 35.
Love this video. I needed this. Guys can you make a video your idea of a multi-player commander tournament?? Rules and restrictions you think each one should have.
This makes me feel really good about how I built my prosper deck. As I planed for alot of fortell suspend and adventure that were cheaper then my comander cause it uses my mana more efficiently and sets up a bunch of payoff for down the road when he enter the fray.
Weirdly i got ahead of this curve before i noticed it becoming popularized. The first indication for me was when i replaced Solemn simulacrum with mindstone to ramp and i noticed how much cleaner of a play pattern it was. I have typically played 34 lands outside of decks that really want more.
I think a segment that was missing from this episide is card draw, or card advantage. Yes, lowering the curve and having it be personalized around the commander is great, but way too often I play agaisnt decks that their builder clearly lowered average mana cost because they heard that it makes for better decks. However, with a lower curve, you also need a lot more card advantage. So many times someone pukes their hand on the battlefield and are empty handed on turn 4 or 5. A single boardwipe would completely remove them from the game and sometimes even without a boardwipe, they are stuck top decking for the rest of the game. Yes, being able to double spell and spending all your mana is important, but if you top deck a land on turn 6, all the effort of spending all your mana on early turns was completly useless...
Exactly, and I love playing cards like Hour of Revelation, Culling ritual or just a simple Damnation to punish those players who just follow what they heard online and didn’t practice their decks enough. It’s pretty much game over for them after turn 4.
I always feel safe with Duskwatch Recruiter in play for my Ruric-Thar deck - it's a werewolf that can sometimes help ramp early, and in the late game it can be a mana sink that helps restock on creatures without needing noncreature spells to draw cards.
another consideration i use is to make sure cards i include at lower cmc have a “snowball effect”, if they’re not ramp, that way i know my opponents need to decide if they want to deal with it or let it live, and if they let it live it punishes them more and more over time. This is more likely than not (e.g. tymna) because no one wants to spend turn 3 dealing with someone’s threat
In my Teysa Karlov deck I noticed I starting adding too many high CMC spells and it has slowed the deck doen so much and it didn't perform like I thought. Once brought the curve down it helped a ton
I really like this kind of episode. I do have another view on the 2 CMC commander route though, I have emmara, soul of the accord deck and I often find that if I'm playing my commander turn two anyway then I don't mind playing 3 CMC ramp, obviously I have a couple of one CMC ( sol ring, wild growth) but if I can get my commander out on turn two, attack and ramp on turn three, then my turn three looks great because I've made a token by attacking and ramped so on turn four I can get a divine visitation out (due to the ramp) for example
That Faithless Looting moment towards the end, “gotta have faith…” have you guys ever explored that space after the mid-show sponsers, to setup the next segments with a song or meme or whatever, like the beginning but different?
Yo that tip about using die to count your card types is INCREDIBLY useful! I don't know how much time I've already lost as a noob just counting my cards haha
I've been on this curve since Commander started. I like building my Commander decks as if they're Legacy decks. So lots of low costing stuff with really high impact and interaction. When everyone around me was playing these crazy 8 and 10 cmc spells, I'm just trying to play Bob. I try and build my decks this way that also allows them to function without getting flooded by too much ramp (High impact and Interaction).
you might talk about this later in the episode but i think mana curve is super contingent on your strategy, ramp, and how easy it is to cheat stuff out. I've only started commander recently but have a mono green deck whose whole theme is just cheating stuff out and because of that the mana curve is like 5+ mana on average with basically every creature being 6+ mana but it's still viable early game
A tip I would give is pack your deck heavy with 1,2,3 drops your setup then go for your crater hoofs and other things because the more setup cards you have the more resourceful and resilient your deck will be
I find the custom CMC feature of Archidekt handy for curve calculation, especially useful for things like Adventures where I know which side I'll be casting and want to take that into account when laying out the deck.
Just to play devil's advocate, I don't play 0cmc ramp in my deck that has a 2cmc commander (your Light Paws example). In fact I play less ramp because I know on turn 2 I can always play my commander if needed. I think if you're playing a 3cmc or less commander, you don't need to get it out earlier by ramping in a casual game. As always it depends on the strategy, but I don't think you always need to get your commander out early as a hard rule. Also, for your land count question, I mostly run 34 lands and 2-3 MDFC lands as backup. Thanks for the episode as always : )
If you run a low cmc commander the fast mana isnt for your commander My 4 cmc kess that basically never gets cast anyways runs every legal fast mana option Because ad naus on turn 2 is a game ender
I think that an important part of the topic that was only touched on a little near the end of the episode is that if you’re skewing lower on the mana curve and planning to play multiple low cost spells on a turn rather than one high cost spell is that you’ll need to make sure you have even more cars draw to keep enough cards in hand to make that happen.
I have an Alela deck. 0-mana artifacts are amazing. I also run Springleaf Drum and the new one that only makes colorless mana but can be channeled, because Alela creates the token upon cast and then the token can be used to make the mana.
What I've started doing now is playing 3 cost artifacts that give me "add one mana of any color" and they have a useful ability, plus sol ring and arcane signet. It works unbelievably effectively, and I've started building more decks this way and had a lot of success.
I run more lands, ramp and draw then I used to. If you have those 3 you'll draw into your 'real' spells faster and be able to play them faster as well. Nothing as frustrating as missing land drops in the first 4 turns or so. He Jimmy ;)
I think the class enchantments are really good for the whole duration of the game, you can get great value out of them both in early and middle game, and depending on the class they're also great for late game.
Due to the number of analogies that came from Jimmy, I propose we refer to him as Bones, after Leonard "Bones" McCoy. (Nothing but love, I still play Kumena as my pet deck because of him)
Some lands that help you accelerate into 3-mana commandersI think have been forgotten are actually some commons. The common cycles from Fallen Empires (come into play tapped and tap for one mana of its color but can tap-sac for two of that color), Mercadian Masks (come into play tapped with two counters, tap and remove a counter to add two mana of its color and sacrifice it when you remove the last counter) and Invasion (come into play tapped and taps for a color and can tap-sac for one of both its allied colors). Yea, you’re sacrificing a land to accelerate you, but it’s only if they in your opening hand. And on top of that, having your commander a turn early is often very worth the loss of one land.
This video made me revisit my decks (have them all online) and optimizing the mana curve. I‘m excited to see, how this will smooth out the play patterns :)
one commander deck I have that scales really well is Verazol. he is a machine that can pop off. he is also a commander I can play multiple times in one game very easily. like you said kicker and X spells scale really well! also for land count in most of my decks I'm sitting around 34-35 with one mdfc. thanks for a great video!!
I feel that while the Mana Curve is important to consider, my experience is that the singleton format means that your starting hand is not always going to be as optimized. What I do is to just stack as many low CMC cards in my deck and that would generally help.
You could have also talked about the various cards with *activated abilities* like Staff of Domination. They are some of the best ways to smooth out the mana curve.
I like that Wizards has been intentionally designing into the "relevant 3CMC ramp" space. Honored Heirloom is one I've slotted into a few 3-color decks, and that ability to exile problem cards from graveyards scales so well late game or if I have extra mana before next turn. I hope we see more & more of this, as a way to nudge EDH a little slower.
With stuff like Gilded Lotus (and to a lesser extent Thran Dynamo), my brother plays those in his decks, which are mostly mana-hungry Boros decks. the mindset he has, is that thanks to the limited card draw, getting more mana out of the single cards is useful, especially in Feather where he can't really get ramp that pushes Feather out a turn early. Even in his Lord Token deck, because his commander isn't useful and he often wants to play large spells to generate mass tokens or buff them massively in one or two turns, he'll play one or two bigger ramp spells to help him.
"Light-Paws is mono-white, so there's no danger of making her too powerful for your playgroup." This is, uh, not my experience. She's borderline cEDH, as a staxy and/or aggressive deck. Really nasty piece of work. I love her.
Casting Frodo turn 1 and a Sam turn 2 is unbearable, you get to draw so far early on the game, even if they destroy it on turn 3, it won’t matter. You’ll be able to recast it again.
One of my favorite 3 cmc mana rocks is Replicating Ring. It's shocking how often that has flown under the radar until i end up with 8 copies of it 5 turns later. 😂 I'm definitely running a lot less lands in my decks now, but that's due to the fact that i now have more duel lands, fetch lands, And the triomes (i love 4-5 color decks)
I think I've been running less lands also as an effect of becoming a better player as well as more dual and tri lands become available for my budget. A really important thing to remember, there's no algorithm or substitute for experience!
One that I know is Yuriko, the tiger's shadow. It helps with other low mana creatures with unlockable and it gives damage to everyone while you draw many cards. Basically all you need for a EDH
Stonecoil Serpent is insane for scaling late game. Run it in Lucea Kane and it rocks but it's just a good card. Impulsive Pilferer scales great because of its encore.
I think a card that really encourages people to play less low drops is Culling Ritual. for decks made of 1-2 drops, it's a death sentence and whoever casted it makes a heck ton of mana
I wish that there were more things that cost 2 that give you 1 mana per turn. A Sky Diamond that enters untapped would be the next biggest commander staple along with the talismans and signets.
I've been using the "reap the tides precon" and it seems pretty good, for just casual. The commander allows me to play 2 lands a turn, and draw a card for each land I put down. You can also have cards that allow you to play lands from your graveyard, so let's say you don't have a land in your hand, but 2 turns ago you sacrificed an "evolving wilds" you can play that from graveyard, draw a card, sac it, draw a card off the land that just came into play, and then play it again and draw 2 more cards. The only issue this precon really has, is it has a LOT of high cmc creatures, it has like 10, 7-8 mana creatures. Theres been way too many times I can't make a play, or put anything down, draw my card for turn, and... 8 mana creature.
The point about a low mana curve making a weak budget deck able to play against significantly better decks is very true. I built my first commander deck with a avg cmc under 3, and while I was far away from winning, I managed to have a board presence and do cool things
The irony for me is that my strongest deck is “high mana value” tribal. But, after listening to this episode I’m realizing that I’ve really up leveled my mana sources to make it possible. I need to do the same now for my lower mana value decks!
Mana curve has been super important in my Mayael the Anima deck since the whole deck is centered around big creatures. It's pretty different from the average Mayael deck for a few reasons. The average Mayael Deck sits around a 5cmc curve, but mine sits much lower at a 3.65. This is mostly because I am leaning towards creatures that have a high power-to-cmc ratios. Sure stuff like Terastodon, Woodfall Primus and Avenger of Zendikar are still there, but you need to run creatures that you can reliably Hardcast early on while still synergizing with Mayael's ability. Another huge thing is adding versatility through creatures that you can still take advantage of early without casting. Cycling Angel of the Ruins if you need to, foretelling creatures, and more stuff like that allow you to still utilize high cmc cards early on and give you way more options in the game.
I find myself running more "lands" now, but the Ghave deck I just built has 5 lands that I view more as a spell that can be played as a land (MDFCs and channel lands)
“If one is to understand the great mystery that is the mana curve, one must embrace a larger view of mana production, not just the dogmatic views of the green player.” I primarily play Mardu decks, so not having green’s ramp and blue’s, well… everything, has forced me to figure out ways to do a similar things. One thing not discussed, but I value cost reduction basically over any amount of ramp; “A mana saved is a mana earned” so to speak. For instance in my Licia deck, I always expect to cast her for 3 mana, regardless of how many times I’ve cast her in the game or sometimes even in the same turn thanks to her cost reduction ability for gaining life. Once Licia is out, I will sacrifice her with cards like Soldevi Adnate, Burnt Offering, and Sacrifice in order to play my higher cost spells like Razaketh, Vilis, and Greven. Sometimes I’ll still have mana left over to recast her same turn thanks to the cost reduction. The deck also uses K’rrik as a way to let me pay that life for mana which is another way to ramp. Turning life directly into mana with Treasonous Ogre (also can use Blood Celebrant/K’rrik) is not only a renewable resource, but one that I should have in abundance if I’ve built my deck correctly. Outside of Licia, I can do a similar thing in my Edgar Markov deck using Mana Echoes, Carnival of Souls, and token creator like Molten Echoes, a card grotesquely undervalued for what it does. Recently treasures have become a huge part of the game. These also provide ramp despite not being renewable. I think of them as a form of “impulse ramp.” That quick injection of mana can vault you ahead of opponents or allow you to catch up to the more traditional land ramp decks. I have a Karona deck and my favorite card to put on her is Shiny Impetus. Since it goads, it forces my opponents to attack with my Karona, protects me from them cracking back using my Karona, and I get a treasure to use (3 extra mana each rotation of the table). While I use more traditional ramp to get up to casting Karona, that card often fuels my entire mid game. One card that I like is Forging the Tyrite Sword from Kaldheim. Just on its face, I spend 3 mana in an early turn to essentially ramp me two in a later turn. Even if I don’t utilize the final chapter, that’s still pretty good value to get an expensive commander out earlier and since they are treasures, they can mana fix where other impulse ramp cannot.
I definitely lean more towards commanders that aren’t as easy to detain with Lavinia. Enough colours also run control now that attacking with a creature for damage is rarely my strategy. I am less interested in running low mana aggressive creatures in EDH, favouring the long game with a higher cost and after setting up my dominoes in earlier turns.
I feel like there are a few exceptions to the curve when considering your commander’s cmc, one of which that comes to my mind due to it being my favorite deck is prosper tome bound. His ability of impulse draw and generating mana nearly as soon as he comes out is quite scary and allows you to be flexible. Another one is a friend of mines commander animar, who makes all his creatures, which is about the majority of his non land cards, much cheaper, allowing him to basically choose his own mana curve.
Same goes for my Ashaya deck. With most games he comes out turn three or four, and so by turn 5 I can drop things like Vorinclex or Nyxbloom, and from there it just gets out of hand.
@@bahamut8995 that’s brutal…I love it! My friend also uses ashaya, but he hates playing me because I always steal his hand eldrazi and he hates it when I do 😂
@@amethystrose3480 I could totally understand that, but it's kinda expected when you play big Eldrazi. I have something of a reputation for Eldrazi in my playgroup cuz they're my favorite creature type, so I changed the commander from Kozilek to Kruphix, because he ramps me a ton, as well as gives me access to ramp in green and control in blue, so I can guarantee my turn 6 Emrakul
@@amethystrose3480 Most games either a signet, harrow, or some other way of generating mana leads me to have 2-3 more lands than average, which brings Kruphix out earlier, then let's me dump mana without losing it and boom: noodle mommy on turn 6
1:01:00 Thats why I really like Necrotic Hex. Compared to Decree of pain is 1 less mana and instant board rebuild for you. Does not work so well against an board with more than 6 creatures on the opponents field, but for me even against some Token decks saved me a lot of times.
Card draw from decree of pain is infinitely better. The card draw is busted! You can afford a few misplays if you draw those extra cards. Plus the cycling is nice and even moreso if you like recasting instants/sorceries from the grave! This from a guy who has won plenty of games with both those particular board wipes.
Something to consider about your point on mana waste, is that players should have their colors form of control for that much mana. If I have four mana, I'd rather cast a 3 drop with a 1 cmc response in hand, then cost a 4 cmc spell and let my opponents do whatever they want on their turn. In my experience, even if you bluff, opponents are more hesitant to going off if they think you have the ability to stop them.
After re listening to your old episodes and learning how much the game is changing, you could probably re visit most of your old episodes and update them. That would be awesome
To the Listeners answer: Deathrite Shaman It is just as impactful on turn 10 as it is on turn 1. Playing it later just means you didn't get as much value as you could have, but at the time it is played it's impact is always the same. Only 2 exceptions: (1) the game ends before you are able to activate it (2) Rest in Peace in play.
Josh always needs to be targeted when he casts vedalken orrery. If the rest of the crew doesn't know that by now..., he is definitely archenemy when he's playing draw, go.
I think you've got it wrong on the 2cmc commanders; Yeah, 0 cost ramp is all well and good, but it's just as good there as it is in literally any other deck. 2cmc commanders are the ones where you really want to play those 3 and 4 mana ramp spells. Most of them have some distinct advantages over 2 cost ramp, (i.e. cultivate giving you a land in hand, harrow filling up your graveyard, etc.) but you don't want to play them despite those advantages, because they either don't help you get your 4cmc commander out faster, or you have better options at those mana values. But when your commander is taking up that 2 drop slot, your options for making use of that higher cost ramp go WAY up.
Hard disagree. If my commander is already out I want to start setting up to do things with it. Unless you’re playing exactly Kinnan (or something similar), and the game plan is to spam-activate his ability you’re better off trying to get your game plan online rather than playing mana rocks or whatever.
When it comes to land count, I always strive to meet a minimum of 35 in total, and that doesn't include any MDFCs that are a land and a spell, specifically. Far as the average mana value, I end up in the neighborhood of 3 CMC as the curves peak between 2 and 3 for most of my decks. I am at fault for adhering too much to what synergizes most with a commander based on what EDHRec shows, but I will more often look at what I am able to pool together and restructure my build into something unique. For example: Radha, Heart of Keld shows a ton of ramp spells regardless of theme, but I have been cutting back on them in favor of others that offer more versatility. Mainly because Radha herself is ramp in a way. I do have some of the typical cards in relation to her, but also include things that can make for an undermining strategy that focuses on combat.
Glad to see I am not the only genius that decided 35 lands is a go to number in most decks. I have a few decks that run 36-37 but yeah 35 has been my starting point for over a year now.
This is my deck building goes. 1. Mana Curve/Access - for smooth play. I like my deck 3 cost and below. some 4 and up have exemptions. 2 or less for mana rocks. No tap lands. Unless you can untap it like shock lands. 2. Dead Cards - making sure i am not putting cards where i can't use if one card goes away by getting removed or countered. 3. Card draw - You should be able to dig through your deck faster while having interactions for offensive and defensive. 4. Interactions - your deck should withstand most interactions passive or active, offensive and defensive. 5. Synergy - cards should be synergistic through your entire deck should be fast and effective. Also, including your first draw before the game. Ask yourself a question: Do you mulligan most of the time or not? Do you have a good hand on your 1st draw? 6. Combos - combos should be fast and easy combos like a 2 card or 1 card commander combos. 7. Consistency - Do you always win under 5 turns for turbo deck? If slow, how consistent are you to protect or prevent someone from winning until you win? How consistent is your deck within all the categories above? This is for me. I'm not sure about everyone. If someone got a good idea, please share so i can put it on my list above.
I'd love to see an episode where you build a commander deck from scratch.
Have they done this??
I would love more deck building episodes! They help so much!
Yeah. Alot of the old episodes seem out of date with how fast the game seems to be progressing
Fr, I’ve been playing for years but deckbuilding is my weak point and they brought up stuff I’ve never even considered
I've been playing since 2000, but I love this contents too
You might add all the deckbuilding videos into a separate playlist so all the fans like me can find them very easily any time! :) Thanks for the great content guys and keep up with it!
This is a great idea!
The only problem with trying to get lesser cmc spells in your deck that function the same as high cmc ones is that they're typically more expensive. Sometimes, *really* expensive. So I usually resort to a ton of ramp in my decks that have green, because while it make take up more spell slots, at least I don't have to blow a bunch of money to effectively do the same thing
that is a fair point.
the first time i realy thought about curve in my deck, was when i build the first sliver with birthing pod effects.
This is a great strategy. I play an Imoti deck that doubles mana as like a budget form of Kinnan, and I play like 16 to 20 ramp spells. It takes a little longer than Kinnan, but in a meta with no land destruction it works great, and my deck is $200 instead of my friends $2k.
For example you don't always have to run mana rocks Animar is one of the best decks for budget decks that doesn't run any of the super expensive cards because most of the ramp is mana dorks
@Chandra’s_Bro_17 I don't mean commanders, but the actual mana rocks themselves. Not everyone can afford Mana Crypts and Mana Vaults and Jeweled Lotuses and such
proxies are free
Episode starts at 7:30
Ty for this
Bless you Alex
ty
Heaven sent
King 🙏
I think this is one of the episodes that we all waited for and needed!
We didn't all need it
@@Squee_666_9 But Jimmy sure did, with him getting mana screwed so often and such. ; )
@@BigBidoof Lol. Honestly I just listened to this while I was working to see if I could pickup on something new. I didn't really hear anything new except for basing mana ramp off of the commanders cmc. Although I disagree. I think it's far more productive to base that off of the entire mana curve and 4-5 cost ramp really isn't worth it.
You make a very good point about spending your mana on each turn.
People often say life is a resource so is your mana, use it!!!
Which is why K'rrrk is such a good commander he lets you do both
I always think of lands that enter tapped as 1-drop spells. You are effectively paying 1 for that extra value you get, whether it’s a temple, or a bounce land, or an MDFC, etc.
As a long time casual commander player, started playing at tenth edition, I keep clicking to your videos and constantly learning new things. Just gained a new subscriber my good people! 🎉
When I first started playing Commander two years ago, I tended to have 14 pieces of ramp and 36 lands. Now I am finding that I am using more two mana ramp with 16 pieces of ramp and 34 lands or a lot of card draw to consistently make land drops. A part of this is because of MDFCs and the games ending sooner than it did back then. Also, I use to have 3.3 - 4.0 average CMC and now it's more like 2.5 - 3.5.
Because of your original podcast about mana curve, it helped me think about playing appropriate ramp for the deck. Gargos was one of my favorite commanders. Originally I played T2 Rampant Growth into T3 Explosive Vegetation. Now it's T1 Llanowar Elves into T2 Llanowar Tribe so that he comes down consistently on turn 3-4 instead of turn 4-6.
Thanks for the tips! I was a noob and blamed budget. Now I understand playing on curve is more important than not playing at all
Just watched your videos going over possible mistakes you guys made during game knights and loved them. Please make more of them. Really helps going back and looking into them more to help me learn to break down scenarios more in depth to make decisions.
Careful when reducing mana curves! Cheaper effects need to be impactful and your deck need more cards velocity and advantage to keep up the value train.
Reducing mana curve is not a universal advice: it comes with a cost of time in deck building, a weaker late game, a dilution of the theme of the deck and a monetary cost.
Put beautifully.
Yeah a deck of 2-3 drops will require a crap load of card draw
I just checked my decks, and I am nowhere near 10/18/18 in CMC 1/2/3 in my decks. That would be way to restricting and would cost way too much actual money to put together. You guys have crazy decks in my opinion. I know it could be much more efficient or just based on crazy combos, but this is top tier stuff and not casual.
Stuff like Manavault for instance .. is just way too good and a must have if your playgroups is on that level. Very high power level!
I remember way back when I was learning magic on Arena, I was playing blue, game was going well and punching face, but at one point I just ran out of cards to play. I kept drawing lands, and the spells I did play were really low value.
Just when I thought my opponent has a board to threaten me, I draw a big dragon, like 1 Red 7 Mana, and I drop it. That's what sealed the game for me.
Cheap cards get you ahead, big cards lets you finish the game
@@Grimmlocked Isn't that just a spellslinger deck?
One of my favorite lower cmc spells is Quest for Pure Flame which is a 1-drop that often gets forgotten about right up until it doubles your burn damage to insta-kill everyone at the table.
56:05 This is part of why I think my favorite big spell these days is Reshape the Earth. Getting any 10 lands out of your deck is a big game and they're very hard to interact with; you can put combos in like Dark Depths/Thespian Stage, but even just a bunch of utility lands (maybe some that can draw you cards) plus a Field of the Dead to make 10 zombies and you're set to win that game and the chance of a blowout is much lower than other big spells.
Your section on evaluating your commanders true MV really hit home. I’ve been treating my Scion of the Ur Dragon as a 7 MV card for years.
Same with Muldrotha the Gravetide. I only play her at 6 mana if I have Tatyova, Benthic Druid in play and a fetch in the graveyard. Otherwise, kind of a dead play and target.
When I first got into playing magic the gathering, mana curve was one of the first things I have mastered. Took sometime but I got done. So it's good to see and hear some people's tips, tricks, and knowledge
I think this is what I need to take my deckbuilding to the next level! Great video!
to me, one of my big level up moments was watching your stats episode a long time ago where you analyzed how many 6 and 7 drops people play per game. Instead of stuffing my deck with them, i focused my deck on doing basic stuff like drawing, ramping etc, then included ways to get the 2 or 3 high mana value cards (e.g. tutors) so that if i feel like it’s time to play them i can get them
Praise be! I have been waiting for an update to this topic!
I really love how Giada, Font of Hope supports the mana curve. Having a guaranteed 2 drop that you can tap for mana helps with the heavy cost of angel creatures! Also looking forward to the upcoming rat tribal deck, which will have a super low mana curve because rats are so tiny lol
I love your content, you all seem like such nice people. You all inspired me to play magic and especially commander. You guys are making some of the best magic content on RUclips. And to answer any questioning thoughts. We can see how much time and effort you all put into your love for this amazing game. Hope and wish all the best for everyone at the Command Zone.
I only have 7 EDH decks. I love what J.L.K. said in a previous video,"limitation breeds creativity". In the majority of my decks, there are few cards that exceed my commanders mana value. This forces me to stay within a certain curve. Theory,proven. 😁
That’s actually why I don’t proxy cards (though idk if my opponents do). If I think a card is overpriced, it forces me to find an alternative and sometimes leads me down avenues I would not have considered otherwise.
Great video! I think you should make a "mastering your draw" video. I used to not balance mana x draw in my decks and recently, I've been adopting some repeatable draw 1 effects in many forms (Bonders' Encalve, Endless Atlas, War Room, etc) and it's been making my games much more consistent, and I think it's a skill every player would benefit from learning.
Skyshroud is so much better than other 4 mana ramp, not only untapped like you mentioned, but it can get duals
“Mono-white not really cEDH level”…tell that to Charles and the others 😋 *laughs in Oswald and Teshar* haha. Had to poke a little bit! Love the content! Another great episode 😁 Keep up the great work
Honestly tho Oswald isn't even playing mono white. It's just artifacts with the option of playing silence and removal spells 😂
You forgot about Heliod Ballista and players have been experimenting with Light-Paws in cEDH.
Very pleased to see a brief reference to my competitive Krark & Sakashima decklist on Moxfield. Thanks y'all!
Jesper Ejsing undestood it all in 2020.
Speed vs power is a huge topic in EDH.
I love to stay low in the curve because reach the point of casting multiple spells during a turn or hold mana to interact without stop your gameplan is priceless.
However, I've seen myself just lacking power if games go for too long and that sometimes is rough.
About what JLK ask about land count. I like to stay in healthy 36, but I''ve recently being adding more voice of torment effects to my decks. It's really satisfying to replace cards I don't need and immediately being able to cast the new cards in hand
Scavenging ooze is a card that scales insanely into the late game.
And yeah I absolutely feel that lowering of land count! My main deck muldrotha which I have still her release had in the beginning about 38 lands and now it only have about 34 or 35.
Love this video. I needed this. Guys can you make a video your idea of a multi-player commander tournament?? Rules and restrictions you think each one should have.
This makes me feel really good about how I built my prosper deck. As I planed for alot of fortell suspend and adventure that were cheaper then my comander cause it uses my mana more efficiently and sets up a bunch of payoff for down the road when he enter the fray.
Weirdly i got ahead of this curve before i noticed it becoming popularized. The first indication for me was when i replaced Solemn simulacrum with mindstone to ramp and i noticed how much cleaner of a play pattern it was. I have typically played 34 lands outside of decks that really want more.
I think a segment that was missing from this episide is card draw, or card advantage. Yes, lowering the curve and having it be personalized around the commander is great, but way too often I play agaisnt decks that their builder clearly lowered average mana cost because they heard that it makes for better decks. However, with a lower curve, you also need a lot more card advantage. So many times someone pukes their hand on the battlefield and are empty handed on turn 4 or 5. A single boardwipe would completely remove them from the game and sometimes even without a boardwipe, they are stuck top decking for the rest of the game. Yes, being able to double spell and spending all your mana is important, but if you top deck a land on turn 6, all the effort of spending all your mana on early turns was completly useless...
Exactly, and I love playing cards like Hour of Revelation, Culling ritual or just a simple Damnation to punish those players who just follow what they heard online and didn’t practice their decks enough. It’s pretty much game over for them after turn 4.
I always feel safe with Duskwatch Recruiter in play for my Ruric-Thar deck - it's a werewolf that can sometimes help ramp early, and in the late game it can be a mana sink that helps restock on creatures without needing noncreature spells to draw cards.
another consideration i use is to make sure cards i include at lower cmc have a “snowball effect”, if they’re not ramp, that way i know my opponents need to decide if they want to deal with it or let it live, and if they let it live it punishes them more and more over time. This is more likely than not (e.g. tymna) because no one wants to spend turn 3 dealing with someone’s threat
In my Teysa Karlov deck I noticed I starting adding too many high CMC spells and it has slowed the deck doen so much and it didn't perform like I thought. Once brought the curve down it helped a ton
I really like this kind of episode. I do have another view on the 2 CMC commander route though, I have emmara, soul of the accord deck and I often find that if I'm playing my commander turn two anyway then I don't mind playing 3 CMC ramp, obviously I have a couple of one CMC ( sol ring, wild growth) but if I can get my commander out on turn two, attack and ramp on turn three, then my turn three looks great because I've made a token by attacking and ramped so on turn four I can get a divine visitation out (due to the ramp) for example
That Faithless Looting moment towards the end, “gotta have faith…” have you guys ever explored that space after the mid-show sponsers, to setup the next segments with a song or meme or whatever, like the beginning but different?
Yo that tip about using die to count your card types is INCREDIBLY useful! I don't know how much time I've already lost as a noob just counting my cards haha
I've been on this curve since Commander started. I like building my Commander decks as if they're Legacy decks. So lots of low costing stuff with really high impact and interaction. When everyone around me was playing these crazy 8 and 10 cmc spells, I'm just trying to play Bob. I try and build my decks this way that also allows them to function without getting flooded by too much ramp (High impact and Interaction).
you might talk about this later in the episode but i think mana curve is super contingent on your strategy, ramp, and how easy it is to cheat stuff out. I've only started commander recently but have a mono green deck whose whole theme is just cheating stuff out and because of that the mana curve is like 5+ mana on average with basically every creature being 6+ mana but it's still viable early game
A tip I would give is pack your deck heavy with 1,2,3 drops your setup then go for your crater hoofs and other things because the more setup cards you have the more resourceful and resilient your deck will be
I find the custom CMC feature of Archidekt handy for curve calculation, especially useful for things like Adventures where I know which side I'll be casting and want to take that into account when laying out the deck.
Just to play devil's advocate, I don't play 0cmc ramp in my deck that has a 2cmc commander (your Light Paws example). In fact I play less ramp because I know on turn 2 I can always play my commander if needed. I think if you're playing a 3cmc or less commander, you don't need to get it out earlier by ramping in a casual game. As always it depends on the strategy, but I don't think you always need to get your commander out early as a hard rule. Also, for your land count question, I mostly run 34 lands and 2-3 MDFC lands as backup. Thanks for the episode as always : )
If you run a low cmc commander the fast mana isnt for your commander
My 4 cmc kess that basically never gets cast anyways runs every legal fast mana option
Because ad naus on turn 2 is a game ender
@@V2ULTRAKill Fair enough. Thats a CEDH strategy though and we are talking about casual commander here.
As a new Commander player, I would like to say thank you, guys!
I think that an important part of the topic that was only touched on a little near the end of the episode is that if you’re skewing lower on the mana curve and planning to play multiple low cost spells on a turn rather than one high cost spell is that you’ll need to make sure you have even more cars draw to keep enough cards in hand to make that happen.
I have an Alela deck. 0-mana artifacts are amazing. I also run Springleaf Drum and the new one that only makes colorless mana but can be channeled, because Alela creates the token upon cast and then the token can be used to make the mana.
Do you play Ashnod’s Altar? That seems great with the faerie tokens
Best mtg channel ever! Thanks guys. I love when we are in between sets bc you guys can have more strategy videos :)
What I've started doing now is playing 3 cost artifacts that give me "add one mana of any color" and they have a useful ability, plus sol ring and arcane signet. It works unbelievably effectively, and I've started building more decks this way and had a lot of success.
I run more lands, ramp and draw then I used to. If you have those 3 you'll draw into your 'real' spells faster and be able to play them faster as well. Nothing as frustrating as missing land drops in the first 4 turns or so. He Jimmy ;)
I'm a new Magic player and my first time watching this channel. Awesome video! Really helped me!
I think the class enchantments are really good for the whole duration of the game, you can get great value out of them both in early and middle game, and depending on the class they're also great for late game.
Starts 6:43
Doing the lord's work.
Thank you kind stranger
respect.
Yes! Thanks! So much BS to start! I can understand maybe a minute or so, but over 6 minutes before the content is a little much
+
Due to the number of analogies that came from Jimmy, I propose we refer to him as Bones, after Leonard "Bones" McCoy. (Nothing but love, I still play Kumena as my pet deck because of him)
Very helpful not just for beginners but also for long time players to either reinforce, challenge and/or show different perspective in deck building
Some lands that help you accelerate into 3-mana commandersI think have been forgotten are actually some commons. The common cycles from Fallen Empires (come into play tapped and tap for one mana of its color but can tap-sac for two of that color), Mercadian Masks (come into play tapped with two counters, tap and remove a counter to add two mana of its color and sacrifice it when you remove the last counter) and Invasion (come into play tapped and taps for a color and can tap-sac for one of both its allied colors).
Yea, you’re sacrificing a land to accelerate you, but it’s only if they in your opening hand. And on top of that, having your commander a turn early is often very worth the loss of one land.
This video made me revisit my decks (have them all online) and optimizing the mana curve. I‘m excited to see, how this will smooth out the play patterns :)
one commander deck I have that scales really well is Verazol. he is a machine that can pop off. he is also a commander I can play multiple times in one game very easily. like you said kicker and X spells scale really well!
also for land count in most of my decks I'm sitting around 34-35 with one mdfc.
thanks for a great video!!
I feel that while the Mana Curve is important to consider, my experience is that the singleton format means that your starting hand is not always going to be as optimized. What I do is to just stack as many low CMC cards in my deck and that would generally help.
You could have also talked about the various cards with *activated abilities* like Staff of Domination. They are some of the best ways to smooth out the mana curve.
I like that Wizards has been intentionally designing into the "relevant 3CMC ramp" space. Honored Heirloom is one I've slotted into a few 3-color decks, and that ability to exile problem cards from graveyards scales so well late game or if I have extra mana before next turn. I hope we see more & more of this, as a way to nudge EDH a little slower.
With stuff like Gilded Lotus (and to a lesser extent Thran Dynamo), my brother plays those in his decks, which are mostly mana-hungry Boros decks. the mindset he has, is that thanks to the limited card draw, getting more mana out of the single cards is useful, especially in Feather where he can't really get ramp that pushes Feather out a turn early. Even in his Lord Token deck, because his commander isn't useful and he often wants to play large spells to generate mass tokens or buff them massively in one or two turns, he'll play one or two bigger ramp spells to help him.
"Light-Paws is mono-white, so there's no danger of making her too powerful for your playgroup."
This is, uh, not my experience. She's borderline cEDH, as a staxy and/or aggressive deck. Really nasty piece of work. I love her.
Depends on the power level though. I wouldn't recommend Mana Crypt, Moxes, and other free fast mana in lower power decks.
Casting Frodo turn 1 and a Sam turn 2 is unbearable, you get to draw so far early on the game, even if they destroy it on turn 3, it won’t matter. You’ll be able to recast it again.
Scavenging Ooze scales well and is versatile. It's just the first one that comes to mind.
One of my favorite 3 cmc mana rocks is Replicating Ring. It's shocking how often that has flown under the radar until i end up with 8 copies of it 5 turns later. 😂
I'm definitely running a lot less lands in my decks now, but that's due to the fact that i now have more duel lands, fetch lands, And the triomes (i love 4-5 color decks)
Love that song, the song plays over my favorite commercial
I think I've been running less lands also as an effect of becoming a better player as well as more dual and tri lands become available for my budget. A really important thing to remember, there's no algorithm or substitute for experience!
One that I know is Yuriko, the tiger's shadow. It helps with other low mana creatures with unlockable and it gives damage to everyone while you draw many cards. Basically all you need for a EDH
Stonecoil Serpent is insane for scaling late game. Run it in Lucea Kane and it rocks but it's just a good card.
Impulsive Pilferer scales great because of its encore.
I think a card that really encourages people to play less low drops is Culling Ritual. for decks made of 1-2 drops, it's a death sentence and whoever casted it makes a heck ton of mana
It is a fantastic card, I am planning on having it in a Golgari token deck. So much fuel!
Mana Curve is strong.... but so is Cost to reduce that curve.. Hence the drawback to wanting to be faster and that drawback is a huge wall for many.
To the Command Zone Staff: I have to tell you... your ads are so good that I do not skip them... I stand in awe of your marketing department.
I wish that there were more things that cost 2 that give you 1 mana per turn. A Sky Diamond that enters untapped would be the next biggest commander staple along with the talismans and signets.
I've been using the "reap the tides precon" and it seems pretty good, for just casual. The commander allows me to play 2 lands a turn, and draw a card for each land I put down. You can also have cards that allow you to play lands from your graveyard, so let's say you don't have a land in your hand, but 2 turns ago you sacrificed an "evolving wilds" you can play that from graveyard, draw a card, sac it, draw a card off the land that just came into play, and then play it again and draw 2 more cards. The only issue this precon really has, is it has a LOT of high cmc creatures, it has like 10, 7-8 mana creatures. Theres been way too many times I can't make a play, or put anything down, draw my card for turn, and... 8 mana creature.
The point about a low mana curve making a weak budget deck able to play against significantly better decks is very true. I built my first commander deck with a avg cmc under 3, and while I was far away from winning, I managed to have a board presence and do cool things
The irony for me is that my strongest deck is “high mana value” tribal. But, after listening to this episode I’m realizing that I’ve really up leveled my mana sources to make it possible. I need to do the same now for my lower mana value decks!
Mana curve has been super important in my Mayael the Anima deck since the whole deck is centered around big creatures. It's pretty different from the average Mayael deck for a few reasons.
The average Mayael Deck sits around a 5cmc curve, but mine sits much lower at a 3.65. This is mostly because I am leaning towards creatures that have a high power-to-cmc ratios. Sure stuff like Terastodon, Woodfall Primus and Avenger of Zendikar are still there, but you need to run creatures that you can reliably Hardcast early on while still synergizing with Mayael's ability.
Another huge thing is adding versatility through creatures that you can still take advantage of early without casting. Cycling Angel of the Ruins if you need to, foretelling creatures, and more stuff like that allow you to still utilize high cmc cards early on and give you way more options in the game.
I thought they were gonna discuss deck building with Mana Curves, the content creator. I did not read the title properly but I enjoyed the episode 😅
This is i want to learn about magic to make more commander decks, thanks guys for the video
I find myself running more "lands" now, but the Ghave deck I just built has 5 lands that I view more as a spell that can be played as a land (MDFCs and channel lands)
Love Jimmy’s Leveled Up To Daddy shirt! Congrats dude!
“If one is to understand the great mystery that is the mana curve, one must embrace a larger view of mana production, not just the dogmatic views of the green player.”
I primarily play Mardu decks, so not having green’s ramp and blue’s, well… everything, has forced me to figure out ways to do a similar things.
One thing not discussed, but I value cost reduction basically over any amount of ramp; “A mana saved is a mana earned” so to speak. For instance in my Licia deck, I always expect to cast her for 3 mana, regardless of how many times I’ve cast her in the game or sometimes even in the same turn thanks to her cost reduction ability for gaining life.
Once Licia is out, I will sacrifice her with cards like Soldevi Adnate, Burnt Offering, and Sacrifice in order to play my higher cost spells like Razaketh, Vilis, and Greven. Sometimes I’ll still have mana left over to recast her same turn thanks to the cost reduction.
The deck also uses K’rrik as a way to let me pay that life for mana which is another way to ramp. Turning life directly into mana with Treasonous Ogre (also can use Blood Celebrant/K’rrik) is not only a renewable resource, but one that I should have in abundance if I’ve built my deck correctly.
Outside of Licia, I can do a similar thing in my Edgar Markov deck using Mana Echoes, Carnival of Souls, and token creator like Molten Echoes, a card grotesquely undervalued for what it does.
Recently treasures have become a huge part of the game. These also provide ramp despite not being renewable. I think of them as a form of “impulse ramp.” That quick injection of mana can vault you ahead of opponents or allow you to catch up to the more traditional land ramp decks. I have a Karona deck and my favorite card to put on her is Shiny Impetus. Since it goads, it forces my opponents to attack with my Karona, protects me from them cracking back using my Karona, and I get a treasure to use (3 extra mana each rotation of the table). While I use more traditional ramp to get up to casting Karona, that card often fuels my entire mid game.
One card that I like is Forging the Tyrite Sword from Kaldheim. Just on its face, I spend 3 mana in an early turn to essentially ramp me two in a later turn. Even if I don’t utilize the final chapter, that’s still pretty good value to get an expensive commander out earlier and since they are treasures, they can mana fix where other impulse ramp cannot.
I definitely lean more towards commanders that aren’t as easy to detain with Lavinia. Enough colours also run control now that attacking with a creature for damage is rarely my strategy. I am less interested in running low mana aggressive creatures in EDH, favouring the long game with a higher cost and after setting up my dominoes in earlier turns.
I feel like there are a few exceptions to the curve when considering your commander’s cmc, one of which that comes to my mind due to it being my favorite deck is prosper tome bound. His ability of impulse draw and generating mana nearly as soon as he comes out is quite scary and allows you to be flexible. Another one is a friend of mines commander animar, who makes all his creatures, which is about the majority of his non land cards, much cheaper, allowing him to basically choose his own mana curve.
Same goes for my Ashaya deck. With most games he comes out turn three or four, and so by turn 5 I can drop things like Vorinclex or Nyxbloom, and from there it just gets out of hand.
@@bahamut8995 that’s brutal…I love it! My friend also uses ashaya, but he hates playing me because I always steal his hand eldrazi and he hates it when I do 😂
@@amethystrose3480 I could totally understand that, but it's kinda expected when you play big Eldrazi. I have something of a reputation for Eldrazi in my playgroup cuz they're my favorite creature type, so I changed the commander from Kozilek to Kruphix, because he ramps me a ton, as well as gives me access to ramp in green and control in blue, so I can guarantee my turn 6 Emrakul
@@bahamut8995 6 turns for that 15 cmc monster?! I’m scared honestly.
@@amethystrose3480 Most games either a signet, harrow, or some other way of generating mana leads me to have 2-3 more lands than average, which brings Kruphix out earlier, then let's me dump mana without losing it and boom: noodle mommy on turn 6
I think Elemental Bond is a great scaling card, as you play more 3 power creatures as the game progresses, it just fills your hand.
It is such a reliable card.
1:01:00
Thats why I really like Necrotic Hex. Compared to Decree of pain is 1 less mana and instant board rebuild for you. Does not work so well against an board with more than 6 creatures on the opponents field, but for me even against some Token decks saved me a lot of times.
Card draw from decree of pain is infinitely better. The card draw is busted! You can afford a few misplays if you draw those extra cards. Plus the cycling is nice and even moreso if you like recasting instants/sorceries from the grave!
This from a guy who has won plenty of games with both those particular board wipes.
Something to consider about your point on mana waste, is that players should have their colors form of control for that much mana. If I have four mana, I'd rather cast a 3 drop with a 1 cmc response in hand, then cost a 4 cmc spell and let my opponents do whatever they want on their turn. In my experience, even if you bluff, opponents are more hesitant to going off if they think you have the ability to stop them.
After re listening to your old episodes and learning how much the game is changing, you could probably re visit most of your old episodes and update them. That would be awesome
I love the car analogy. Realistically, in Commander, we just don't want a lemon that just breaks down all the time.
To the Listeners answer: Deathrite Shaman
It is just as impactful on turn 10 as it is on turn 1. Playing it later just means you didn't get as much value as you could have, but at the time it is played it's impact is always the same. Only 2 exceptions: (1) the game ends before you are able to activate it (2) Rest in Peace in play.
Loved the intro. Thanks for the content
Josh always needs to be targeted when he casts vedalken orrery. If the rest of the crew doesn't know that by now..., he is definitely archenemy when he's playing draw, go.
I would say since most hands have 3 lands make sure your deck is stacked up with 3 cmc or less cards so you can be efficient early in the game
The intro was Gold. 10/10
I think you've got it wrong on the 2cmc commanders; Yeah, 0 cost ramp is all well and good, but it's just as good there as it is in literally any other deck. 2cmc commanders are the ones where you really want to play those 3 and 4 mana ramp spells.
Most of them have some distinct advantages over 2 cost ramp, (i.e. cultivate giving you a land in hand, harrow filling up your graveyard, etc.) but you don't want to play them despite those advantages, because they either don't help you get your 4cmc commander out faster, or you have better options at those mana values. But when your commander is taking up that 2 drop slot, your options for making use of that higher cost ramp go WAY up.
Hard disagree. If my commander is already out I want to start setting up to do things with it. Unless you’re playing exactly Kinnan (or something similar), and the game plan is to spam-activate his ability you’re better off trying to get your game plan online rather than playing mana rocks or whatever.
Been waiting for this episode, thank you
When it comes to land count, I always strive to meet a minimum of 35 in total, and that doesn't include any MDFCs that are a land and a spell, specifically. Far as the average mana value, I end up in the neighborhood of 3 CMC as the curves peak between 2 and 3 for most of my decks. I am at fault for adhering too much to what synergizes most with a commander based on what EDHRec shows, but I will more often look at what I am able to pool together and restructure my build into something unique. For example: Radha, Heart of Keld shows a ton of ramp spells regardless of theme, but I have been cutting back on them in favor of others that offer more versatility. Mainly because Radha herself is ramp in a way. I do have some of the typical cards in relation to her, but also include things that can make for an undermining strategy that focuses on combat.
Glad to see I am not the only genius that decided 35 lands is a go to number in most decks. I have a few decks that run 36-37 but yeah 35 has been my starting point for over a year now.
@@leemiller6977 I’d have to double-check, but I may have one that has 34, but there are other sources of mana, as usual.
This is my deck building goes.
1. Mana Curve/Access - for smooth play. I like my deck 3 cost and below. some 4 and up have exemptions. 2 or less for mana rocks. No tap lands. Unless you can untap it like shock lands.
2. Dead Cards - making sure i am not putting cards where i can't use if one card goes away by getting removed or countered.
3. Card draw - You should be able to dig through your deck faster while having interactions for offensive and defensive.
4. Interactions - your deck should withstand most interactions passive or active, offensive and defensive.
5. Synergy - cards should be synergistic through your entire deck should be fast and effective. Also, including your first draw before the game. Ask yourself a question: Do you mulligan most of the time or not? Do you have a good hand on your 1st draw?
6. Combos - combos should be fast and easy combos like a 2 card or 1 card commander combos.
7. Consistency - Do you always win under 5 turns for turbo deck? If slow, how consistent are you to protect or prevent someone from winning until you win? How consistent is your deck within all the categories above?
This is for me. I'm not sure about everyone. If someone got a good idea, please share so i can put it on my list above.
Excellent opening. Love you guys!