Does Marner deserve the criticism he is receiving?
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- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2024
- The Bruins hold a 3-1 series stranglehold over the Maple Leafs and are looking for their fourth playoff series win against Toronto since 2013. If Auston Matthews misses Game 5, what are the odds the Leafs win that game? Do the Leafs believe they can win the series? Do you think Mitch Marner deserves to be the scapegoat? TSN Director of Scouting Craig Button joins Jay Onrait to share his thoughts.
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He’s getting paid 11 mill pretty much and the worst thing is he’ll probably want 13 on his next contract. He deserves all the criticism
While I agree, Matthews and Nylander just re-signed and they’ve been just as absent
@ianburke3826 Nylander only played one game, and Keefe had him on the 3rd line mostly. He should've had him with Matthews and Bertuzzi, and put Domi with Marner and Tavares. We have a coach who refuses to do what's right, and a scared Marner. It's time for both to go
And the Loafs are dumb enough to pay him.
@@user-ut4cv7cc2z This month's conference quarterfinal for the Leafs has been a failure on so many levels. Fail to get out of that round, and I see pressure only growing on Keith Pelley, CEO of Leafs' ownership group MLSE, to, for starters, end Brendan Shanahan's presidency so that big changes, including a break-up of the AM34-Marner-Nylander-Rielly-Tavares quintet, can finally occur.
@@scooter29 You realize that he would have received the same money on almost any other team, don't you? It's not about the Leafs. You're too stupid and ignorant to know that.
He deserves much MORE than he is getting
Criticism, not money I hope 😂
Marner was never left at the gas station by his dad after a bad game, just to have his mom come pick him up. Being left at a gas station makes champions.
Always has, always will
Actually, I'd thought the anecdotal reports were that Marner senior was indeed a bit of a dink. He had success in junior, where to my knowledge the Knights have been a model franchise for hockey best practices, as owned and operated by the Hunter bros for like, decades. Then he arrives at Toronto, and joins the very definition of an incompetent and dysfunctional organization. I think Marner will phase out of Toronto and get his chance with another organization on his next contract. I will not be surprised if wins his Stanley cup one spring.
Lol you Ontarians have it easy... you waiting for mom to come pick you up ? I had to take the bus.
@@JoeBine77 Big chip, little province.
@@youngman2451 My province has the largest surface area in Canada and we are not one of your provinces because you excluded us from the constitution.
This train wreck starts at the top MLSE / Shanahan built a team to score in the regular season and built to generate revenue. Time to dump them all.
I'm tired of all you could potatoes criticizing Shanahan. He has nothing to do with the players being brought in or how they're deployed by the coach. The only criticism he deserves is that he hasn't changed the coach. Keefe has to go, Marner has to go, and they need to reshape the D so that it's bigger and tougher. Brodie and Giordano will be gone, they should trade Liljegren and re-sign Edmondson and Lybushkin. A goalie would be nice. But, the bottom line is, it's the coach and the players fault for failing, NOT Shanahan's.
@@user-ut4cv7cc2z ... ad hominem attacks reveal poor character. I also agree both Shanahan and Keefe should have been sent packing with Dubas. Hope Keith Pelley is serious about resetting this organization.
I see it the exact same way as you with regards to the type of players defenders outgoing and the ones to re-sign.
Can work on an extension for McCabe as well
(I’m not big on Reilly and his contract either to be perfectly honest)
But the team needs to continue being re-shaped, there is plenty of cap room to turn over, it’s time to ask them to waive some no trade clauses in my personal opinion.
@@user-ut4cv7cc2z It is Shanahan's fault. He brought in an analytics GM from the OHL who had no experience in scouting or contract negotiations. He hired his long time coach who was hated by the players. He was behind the Tavares signing. And he's the only one left from the original management group. The guy has no business being team president and he's had a longer leash than any of his predecessors with lesser results.
He makes twice what Hyman does, and produces WAY less when it counts.
So does Matthews.
Hyman produced way less when it counts when he was on the Leafs.
Hyman had one good year
Marner's playoff PPG is higher than Hyman's.
His PPG is higher than a ton of people who are considered playoff performers. Timliness is definitely up for debate but Marner produces in the playoffs.
Hyman plays in a weak series, lets see how they do if facing Boston,Florida, Canes, etc
100% yes he does, this man demanded Matthew's type money on this current contract with that type of money comes big expectations. Every play this man looks at the ref with hands up expecting a call. I am tired of his way, good regular season player, not 11 million good, and playoffs, not even 5 million. Only if he fought as hard as he did for this contract as he does on the ice during the most critical games. Folds like a cheap tent, how can he be considered an elite player when the pressure is off only can he get points
Watch Marner play and he’s simply disengaged
@@SillySongs4Everyone2001 you can't be making 11 million playing in Toronto, your hometown! I'm praying for a waive of his no trade clause
Well said. He looks so gassed 15 minutes into the 1st period right now. I'm all for my hometown players from Markham Richmond Hill area but he's been laid out so many times already he can't even come close to a player without folding
@@waterh2o37 It's very common for the Maple Leafs to way overpay low performing players. Although Marner is one of the highest paid in team history there are plenty before him who got big contracts with a NTC and couldn't even help the Leafs make the playoffs let alone win a round.
Nobody can touch The Leafs in the handshake line.
The last few games of Toronto's regular season play was a good indication of how their series with Boston was going to go.
How did getting Dewar and adding the two defenseman help ?
It didnt.
All you announcers say the regular season means nothing in the play off, yet ya keep referring to the regular season.
You have to refer to the regular season to make the case.
@@smolderingtitan then why say the regular season doesn’t count, obviously the Bruins are a better team regardless of what standard is used.
What is your logic here?
@@hyjacker a team plays well during the regular season. No matter how well they played then it doesn't count now during the different conditions of the playoffs.
Likewise a team plays well during the first playoffs round and wins. Now the first round doesn't count because what works against the team from the first round might not work against the new team in the second round.
Toronto’s game is receding almost as fast as Matthews hairline. Brutal
There was a reason Babcock chose him to pick on he’s probably having a laugh right now
and they demonized that coach.
Marners ego is what gets in his way.
And the fact that he's afraid to take a hit. He's not a playoff type player. He has to go
@@user-ut4cv7cc2z mcdavid tho dawg mcjesus my dawg but dude scared tho
@@mvxxderxnxx3078 McDavid shows up in the play offs.
Too bad we don't have a player like Nathan McKinnon - he has grit, talent, skill and heart. Marner is a pussycat
He deserves the criticism 110%
He is 1 point back from the team lead in points and one of only two forwards with a positive plus minus.
It's Matthews defensive game thats going to hurt the most without him in the lineup.
oN god
No we can do it without him leafs don't gave a bad record without him
I do think he deserves some but right now he's getting criticism for the whole team being in shambles which is not deserved
Keefe’s legacy in Toronto:
- Losing to a 42 year old Zamboni driver who works for them
- Getting embarrassed in a play-in bubble playoffs.
- Twice losing to a COVID ravaged Canucks team.
- Blowing a 5-1 lead to the last place Senators
- Dropping Freddie for Jack Campbell in 2021 but sticking with Samsonov in 2024.
- Blowing a 3-1 series lead to Montreal because Galchenyuk was your best hope.
- game 7 2022 and game 5 2023.
- getting embarrassed by Marner anytime he tries to discipline him
- all of the above was done AT HOME
Keefe is not fit to coach at the NHL, period
Marner is one of the highest paid players in the NHL.
What is he talking about? Even strength a wash wtf is he watching? Leafs are getting outplayed everywhere.
Absolutely, the dude doesn’t even try, he whines, he cries, get him off that team
Of course he does. He’s great in the regular season, but lacks the physicality necessary to create space in the playoffs. If he has to fight for space, he seems to simply disengage. In the playoffs space is contested, and he’s not contesting, thus he looks completely ineffective a lot of the time.
Exactly. And you can’t give him a pass because he’s small, because Marchand is small and fights like hell, guy is like a wolverine.
Brayden Point is also small, but has come up big in the playoffs several times.
@@jamalstephenson7140 Not my point. “Coming up big several times” isn’t what I’m talking about. Even Mitch came up with a goal last game, right? My point it he lacks the physicality to be a dominant force in the playoffs. He refuses to go through opponents. If he can’t skate around them then he disengages.
@@JT-gi8rx Marchand is small but seems built like a boss. Mitch looks like an undeveloped teenager. That said, as you alluded to: one is a bull dog with a hunter mentality; the other is a finesse forward that lacks the spirit required at this time of year. Marchand loves and welcomes this environment; Mitch withdrawals from it. Huge difference.
@@jamalstephenson7140 You are right, Patrick Kane is small but during the Hawks playoffs he was a force on the ice.
He is the only one of the big 4 to do anything at all over the last 2 games. Somehow it isn't enough from Marner but acceptable for the other 3 to do nothing.
He’s the only one to not do anything*. Fixed that for you
It's the same old shit time and time again. Shitty attitude, Laughable giveaways, afraid to get hit, Temper tantrums....been this way for years. The goal he scored was luckier than all fuck. He gave the puck away right before that and just so happened to have it come back to him. His bad far outweighs his good in moments like these
Who was the one that abandoned their position in the diamond on the penalty kill that led to the GWG by Marchand? Who was the one that was constantly losing puck battles? Yeah, he scored a goal, in the third period, when it was 3-0. Doesn't make up for his crap play during the first two periods. Simply looking at his stats doesn't tell the story of how bad he played.
@@pomerlain8924 The problem is he is the only one really being criticized of the big 4. Matthews always gets a free pass, it seems Tavares also gets a free pass. 3 out of the 4 games Matthews did nothing, same for Tavares. Why do these guys get a free pass but the screws are applied so hard to Marner. I am not claiming he has been great but he still has produced more in the last 2 games then all three of the other big 4 combined. Nylander gets a pass because he has only been in for 1 game. He isn't the only one doing little to nothing so to only coitize the one and not the others is flawed to me. They are all guilty of failure.
You know he scored the only goal last game on a play he authored right?
The “It’s just another game” mentality is rampant with this team. Robertson said the same thing. They just do not get it, the culture of losing continues.
This is the same guy who predicted the Leafs to sweep Montreal a few years ago.
He’s about as insightful as Pierre Maguire.
He also said that CBJ were going to be a non factor when they faced the leafs
Ah man. I like P McG. He's odd but he knows his stuff. Craig is insufferable and he contradicts himself often. @@plrt6794
The Leafs should’ve swept the Habs there. Everyone should’ve beat Montreal, they had the worst team I’ve seen who made a cup final. Carey Price carried that team.
@@JT-gi8rx he also criticised the Habs' structure and implied that they'd get waxed. Then they went to the cup final.
Craig's an idiot. Calgary fired him far beyond a decade ago and he hasn't had a sniff since.
He absolutely does deserve it. he wanted the 10.5 mil he has to play to that level
Let's not forget that extra 2 to 3 million we overpaid Marner would have left us enough money to keep Hyman
SO YA MITCH MARNERS GREED LOST US ZACK HYMAN
10.9
but who’s counting…
Hyman without McDavid is no better than Bertuzzi
Isn’t it John Tavares GREED that screwed the Leafs?!🤔
Yes he does. And bullshit. Bruins defense was much better than the Leafs.
I need some of what Craig is smoking 🚬 What a crazy statement 😂
No it wasn't good defense. It's a collapse to the centre. Problem is the leafs are so bad they won't just shoot the puck a shit load and guarantee a goal statistically. Eventually you get a lucky bounce. You're not gonna win with 13 shots and goalie who can't tend the goal. Boston is mid this year at best. That's what hurts. This is the year the leafs should be tremendously better. But bruins play like a team with discipline that wants to win. The leafs play like a bunch of rich kids who aren't "feeling it"
@@Alexdenomme Bruins looked bad tonight.
I can't stop thinking about Button's new toothbrush moustache.
Marner was the scapegoat last year! Are you fkn kidding me that the media thinks one guy is to blame! What's to blame is the organization that has accepted for years players with zero killer instinct! Charmin!
When you are the scapegoat every year you might be the problem
None of the top 4 players perform in the playoffs, then there’s goaltending, and coaching. So no I wouldn’t lay the blame on Marner.
Going into the next game, they need to hypnotize Matthews into thinking it’s the regular season, and he’s sitting at 67 goals. The guy will play incensed and be a force of nature, trying to reach that 70 goal milestone, just like he was down the stretch.
The Bruins are just better, not much they can do.
The Bruins hockey program is better than the Leafs. Plain and simple. They have developed from within and deploy a better hockey system.
He does not deserve this much criticism. Mitch is the guy that has the most points in this series.!!
He's too soft and not gritty enough to be on a cup contender. Sorry, he just isn't.
Marchand makes 6.5 and fully agrees to play an effective system of play
The Leafs demand McDavid money and disagree to play an effective system of play
“There’s no money in defence” mentality
“Regular season stats secure the bag” mentality
It's amazing isn't it. I think Marchand topped out at 8 million about 6 years ago. He's been playing for peanuts since. Marner isn't 1/2 the playoff performer yet makes 2x as much and worse...he thinks he deserves it.
@@canuckowl Any team in the playoffs can beat the leafs easily , all teams know the leafs culture and attitude, easy to beat them in the playoffs when the league gets tougher. Boston would not survive against teams like Carolina or florida well...we saw that last year.
@@canuckowl it is amazing...
If Money is so important then why didnt Marchand hold out, why didnt Pastrnak? clearly better players!
Nathan McKinnon earns 12.6 million (that marner thinks hes worth) and thats after McKinnon made 6.3 while marner made 10.9???
Marner couldnt eat atthe same table as Mckinnon and the aformentioned bruins, only the Leafs get rewarded for little return
Yes. The answer is yes.
Get a coach that would scratch these guys after a bad game.
The blame does not belong to any one player. The simple fact is that there is too much money on too few players and you cant afford solid support or depth. They do not have a true 1st line D-man, nor a top tier goaltender because of the salary structure. So in order to retool, one or two of the big contracts have to go.
The fact that does he deserve the criticism is being asked is even ridiculous, of course he does he's being paid 11 Million dollars to play hockey, hell I don't remember Mario or Wayne asking for that much in their contracts, he's barely done his job on the ice and it's showing
If you can't take the pressure in the kitchen, then get out
Number 1, didn't see anyone else score Saturday night. Number 2,how about giving Boston a little more credit.
The Leafs suck dude.... playoff crap.
"I love a good breakfast meat" and that side eye lmao
Do the Leafs even practice special teams ? This has to be some of the worst PK & PP I’ve ever seen….EVER ! You can blame Marner, Nylander’s illness or whatever! Lack of Special Teams has murdered the Leafs this series & that starts with coaching.
he deserves criticism, but the entire leafs team does too. they all look shaky, unsure, not confident. they look like they are chasing the puck, not sure where to be. they have absolutely NO swagger. To focus on Marner like he is losing it for the leafs is pathetic.
Is Button EVER right? LOL 🤣🤣🤣
Toxic at the wrong player John Tavares is suppose to be the FN Captain right?!He CLEANED ALL THE MONEY OFF THE TABLE!!!
He wanted to get paid like a top five player in the league. Those players are paid to break through. He and the entire core 5 deserve it!
Mitch Marner is Steve Yzerman pre 1996. Super skilled, scores lots of regular season points but flops in playoffs. Yzerman changed his game. Changed his attitude on what it took to be a winner. Marner needs to do the same.
People in Trono seem to have blinders on regarding their team. Marner useless in the playoffs and Nylander is equivalent to a shinny league 4th liner. This team that Shanny built is pretty much going to go nowhere's with Tavares as the captain who has no sense of urgency or fight in him. Matthews, you really have to question whether he has a heart for this game. Yeah he loves dancing around in December when he's got 40 goals but when it matters he really has no heart which is sad. His brain is back in Phoenix and golfing this time of year. Did I say anything untrue?
Before even watching the vid, yes for cap reasons and playoff performances alone. The mix isn’t working in Toronto. Hope he wins a cup somewhere else.
The only fight they show is when players score game sealing empty nets of them.
Not just Marner. Every single player on that team.
1 loss in play in series against BlurJackets.
1 2nd round appearance in the Playoffs.
6 years of 1st round failure.
The 4 Horsemen have to be broken up in the off season. I suspect Marner will be the one on the block sue to him needing a new contract (after next season) and he will command around Papii34’s amount of money. So Nylander stays.
I like JT. But he hasn’t done a thing to lead us in the playoffs. Don’t know if leafs should let him walk and find someone a little younger?
I’d Probly trade Rielly as well. He’s getting up there in age. Had a great career. Going all the way back to Burke era. Time to re-tool the defence.
Sammy id trade him. And go with Woll. I think he is ready. And he should start tonight against the Booins.
Domi and Bert I’d love to keep around.
Brodie should be gone as well.
This is the summer GM Tre can put his finger prints on the Leafs.
It’s time to do away with Dubas mess he left.
Just my Opinion of course.
I’ve been a Leafs fan most of my Life (I’m 50). And haven’t seen them the grand prize in Hockey.
Same shite different story every year. No progress made. Jut regular season wonders and playoff chokers.
I have all my leaf collections in boxes. Decided to take ‘em down. Waste of money and space.
Until I see improvement. My collection will remain down. Not that it hurts the team any. They’ve always disappointed me the past 8 years.
I’m done with this team for awhile.
Tldr
@@SimRacingVeterantl;dr bad goaltending. Trade marner
Did this guy just say the leafs defense is better than bostons? Toronto hasn't had a defense for 20 yrs L take
I would feel for the poor leafs if they were less cocky during the regular season… but nahh 😅😂. That team doesn’t have the grit, defense and goalie to win in playoffs.
New Toronto Maple Leafs Coach=Craig Button
Yes
LOL man it gets me every time, listen I never liked the leafs and I’m Canadian, I don’t like Matthews either. Yeah he can score. Does he make other players on his line better., I’d argue no. You need a team player. A two way hard worker. You can expect to win when your team relying too much in a one dimension player.
Marner too, scared mans too afraid to get physical, that won’t win you games. Grinding out shift to shift will, forcing your own chances
On the back of the ticket it says for entertainment purposes only. 😂😂😂.
What's a strangehold?
The Leafs Core 4 was doomed to failure when it was created. The wrong players were selected. No point in comparing Willie to Mitch. The Leafs Executives screwed up big time - by not prioritizing Leaf Core 4 upgrades this past year. Also, why are Leaf Fans in denial that Matthews is a playoff disappointment at centre. Snipers like OV, Matthews, Selanne and Hull belong on the wing.
The Maple Leafs are now famous mostly for being the worst playoff team in the history of the NHL. At least no body does it better than Toronto’s hockey team in that regard. 😀
No!!! When MM got hurt he was flying, well on his way to 100 points. Might have led the team if he got really hot. Certainly would have had more than WN. To anyone with eyeballs they should see he's not skating like he was. It's obvious. My guess is he came back too soon, like a committed Leaf would. With all the fans saying get rid of him for a bag of pucks, I say 2x 1st team all-star, prolific assist getter and plays PP and penalty kill. Those skills are special and his offense AND defense are elite.
Beyond deserved....hes been like this for 5 years....the real story is how people are only realizing it now
11M? 0 points in first 2 games? nice way of wasting money!!
Look at your fellow player and ask CAN YOU DO YOUR FUCKING JOB TONIGHT? If yes WE WILL WIN, AS IM ALLIN
YESSSSSS
I dont think Mathews was talking to Marner he was more likely talking to Nylander Mathews looks likebhe was talking to Nylander
Marner post-game: "We're grown men."
Is he trying to convince us or himself?
The series is still alive, let’s gooooo l. Go leafs Go 💙💙
Craig Button s said the leafs would win in this series, he clearly does not understand hockey!
Only watching Jay bc of Shoresy!
No fn way hits century mark in points every year and for Willy “or won’t he” Melander whining pisses me off!
Auston is still sore he did not score 70. He is done for the season. That illness is just an excuse. He had a tantrum during the second intermission and refused to return to the ice. Its either that or his mom's cooking did not agree with him.
jay carries TSN
You can't build a team around 4 players that make over 40 million
Word is Treliving rustled up a big ol'bag o' money for anyone who can get a couple points during the elimination game. 💰
Maybe, just maybe, the Bruins have something to do with how the series is going.
Marner coming off an Injury scores by himself. what did the rest of the team accomplish?
Big f deal he scores a goal and they still lose 3 to 1. Overall the last 7 years of making the playoffs, please gimme a break 😊
@@sassy5128 It takes a team to win games. they need to start playing as one. zone entires have been a joke. no one looks good. I'm wondering if the whole team has the flu or covid.
@@Mike-vx3ld3il7w fully aware it takes a team. But these guys play individually... remember they were trying to make him get 70 goals ... what does that matter if you can't produce in the playoffs
Who kept losing board battles? Marner. Who abandoned their spot on the PK which lead to the GWG by Marchand? Marner. Who was whining and looking for calls? Marner. Who was throwing a tantrum on the bench, while wearing a letter on his jersey? Marner.
@@pomerlain8924 Who won board battles? who played good on the PK? Who had any passion at all? No one stop blaming an injured Marner for everything. yes he could do better and have a better attitude but this whole team needs to do that.
There's not a cat in ecks chance any team will get rid of one of the best passers there is. I suspect Tavares will go.
Dont take the cap space if you dont want to carry the team on your back.
I agree it's collective not 1 or 3 guys are the team. This is the nhl boys. Best of the best. Be your all with a broken foot like Kadri!
Headaches and tummy aches. The meme team. Can’t been blame marner
Who is Keefe fooling, the effort was NOT there, not even close to the effort the Bruins had in game 4. Keefe and Shanahan have to go. The Shanaplan more like the shambleplan, complete shambles in the playoffs year after year.
Yes, he does!!
If Mitch had some Dougie Gilmour DNA.... he'd be a superstar. I think Marner would prefer a non contact NHL.
every single leaf deserves criticism
Its not just one guy here, all the top end players have not performed to what they are being paid. when you pay guys that haven`t won this to me is a big issue. i would rather two 5 million dollar players with heart than one of these so called core 4 making what they are. if Boston can do it, if Florida can do it, why cant the LEAFS. Its going to be an issue paying out that kind of coin for guys that haven`t won anything its nuts. change has to come.
Leafs players have the talent. But they don't have the balls and even less so the heart to compete in the playoffs.
Yes!
Bruins have a strange hold?🤨
Hes an Ontario rich kid. Before he signed. Rebuild seasons are a comings. 5 year plans here we go.
Strangehold? Seems like Toronto still holds the ‘L’
Underrated comment.
The kid gets $11M, but damn man. He doesn’t play with any type of physicality at all. Grit doesn’t win games, but you need it to win.
Leafs drafted Mitch Marner and got Jason Blake instead.
What else did anyone expect here? Boston has owned the Leafs now for years, and will continue to have their number. All the people bashing Marner because of how much he gets paid, it MANAGEMENT that offered the contract! If you don’t do well under pressure at your job, but the boss offers you $1m pay raise, what do you do?
Yes.
Yes he hasnt gotten enough
As a team you have to say collectively WE WILL NOT LET YOU WIN! I will do my job and you guys sort out the rest, but in my game I WILL NOT LET THEM WIN! You do you to make sure we are on the same page again collectively, nothing wrong with playing HANGRY, GOD DAMN IT PLAY ANGRYYYYYYYYY!
We've known for years that the core doesn't have what it takes to be successful in the playoffs. Yet, year after years the leafs keep it the same and think the results will be different. They need to grow some stones and pull a big a move like the panthers did when they got Tkachuk.
That hyman contract is looking better and better every day now😂😂😂😂
Do you remember Hyman's great playoff performances as a Leaf? Yeah, I don't either. There weren't any.
half of hymans goals are just him having his stick on the ice infront of the net and mcdavid working magic and passing it to him.
@@canuckowl Hyman's much better now than in his earliest seasons which is rare considering most players peak in their earliest seasons.
Ya Narner does not want to be here
He cannot come through ever in the playoffs
… too immature bad attitude
He requires a tough hardliner serious win oriented coach
I would hate to see him go
however, he is not worth his salary and he wants $14M to sign on again - no way - good bye Marner
Should have known marner wasn't a good teammate when he thew kadri under the bus with babcock instead of being a man and telling babs he's ot giving names because those are his teammates. To this day I think babs tested marner about his team loyalty and marner failed.
Especially when he picked Naz. A way harder working player than the core 4.
Leafs don’t have culture. Chara brought a culture Bergeron brought a culture. Marchand brings the culture. They have passed down this toughness and accountability.
Leafs haven’t figured it out because they’re a better team this year and you’d never be able to tell
If you don’t think he deserves it wait till he asks for a raise this summer
Breakfast is the worst meal of the day.
Leafs are done. They need to rake the Leaves again and do a cleanup. PP is joke. Not a fun team to watch.
Painful.