The basement scene is a true horror scene, genuinely have never felt so uncomfortable watching a scene because there's no jump scares, no digital effects, just pure, slow burning terror. Also, I love that every time Zodiac appears and speaks, it's always a different person and different voice since they never caught him and couldn't know what he looked or sounded like.
Agreed. The scene at the lake and the scene with the woman with the baby who is almost abducted are also terrifying. The movie isn't scary in a traditional way, but it gives you a feeling of dread and suspense that stays with you even after the movie is over.
I actually lived in William Vaughn's house in the Sunset district in SF as his children rented it out after he died. The ground floor looked exactly like that, in the 'basement'. It was really dark because William had covered windows so it could be a silent movie theater to help him practice for the films, he also had an organ down there. Nearly every friend, girlfriend and my parents hated going down there, however the laundry was in the back so it couldn't be avoided. Its also really close to a high school, and one time at lunch I was doing laundry down stairs, and I heard footsteps walk from the front of the house to the back. I grabbed a golf club and went up, thinking some kids from the HS broke in. No one was upstairs. Since it was in the Sunset, it also was really damp, never warmed up or dried,. I remember coming home after a weekend and my bath towel was still wet. So in early 2007, I finally decided I wanted to actually live in California, and moved down the peninsula. Two months after I moved, my girlfriend and I saw Zodiac in the theaters, we nearly died when it came to that scene. That was the first time we had heard the house was related to the Zodiac killer.
THAT'S why he looked so familiar. I guess I could have looked it up on IMDb one of the number of times I've seen the movie, but for whatever reason I just never did. That's wild.
Aw shit son, you're right!! No wonder he looked so vaguely familiar to me! 😅 I recall watching a Making-Of special about Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and seeing him always on-set in his makeshift Roger Rabbit costume to help him get into character.
The latest development in the Zodiac case is that the second cypher (Known as Z430) that was sent to the San Fransisco Chronicle, in a letter that also contained a piece of the San Fransico cab driver's bloody shirt, was finally solved, in December of 2020, by an international team of code-breakers. It took 51 years. In the solved cypher Zodiac mocks the authorities and says, " I hope you are having lots of fun trying to catch me”, however the cypher did not contain his identity. Two other short Zodiac cyphers, Z13 and Z32, remain unsolved.
That was so great. They started youtube series to document their progress and by the fifth episode they had allready solved it. It had remained unsolved for all those years because Zodiac made errors, but they managed to work around those.
induced error is a powerful cryptographic tool. Like building a house with measuring tools only you know are calibrated differently. @@GonkThePowerDroid
I know it was brutal in the beginning, but the idea was to make viewers understand what it was like with a killer walking around and preying on people at the time.
Scorpio. The villain in Dirty Harry from 1971 was loosely based on The Zodiac Killer. Ah if only Dirty Harry Callahan were duty as portrayed by Clint Eastwood:)
I was a kid growing up in that area of CA when this was happening. We all knew about the Zodiac killer. He was our boogyman. Though we went blithely about our lives, the anxiety of knowing he was out there lived in the back of our minds all the time.
We just had the son of Sam murders in New York during this time but it was right before I was born. There were reported connections to a cult operating out of Yonkers called the church of the final judgment.
I know what you mean. I grew up around the time and in the area of the serial killings by the Shankhill Butchers. If you can get the book its a frightening read, it was banned for a while because there was Police collusion but I think its been republished
I'm super glad you liked this one, Zodiac is one of my all-time favorites! As a native of Northern California, it still hangs over us all that the scumbag has never been captured. We recently had success catching the 'Golden State Killer' through genealogical DNA, but Zodiac remains 'at large'.
These serial killers cannot stop killing or at least harming people. That is the opinion of most major criminologists. Either the zodiac dude is in prison for other major offenses or he is dead.
@@agarlicsorbet6482In some cases, serial killers/offenders do stop, either permanently or a least for a while, mostly due to a change in there personal circumstances, like say getting married and having children. Then they may feel the urge to reoffend and resume their reign of terror.
Serial killers can, in fact, stop killing. GSK, Dennis Rader, Thomas Gorton and Zodiac are just a few examples. Most psychologists also agree that Zodiac enjoyed the attention and fear the murders gave him more than he did killing them.
Bit late watching this, but this comment just made me realize something... I grew up in Vallejo and was a kid playing in the parks the Zodiac killed at, and the Golden State Killer was arrested/lived less than a mile from where I live now! :O
I grew up in the area that this happened. Vallejo, Napa, Lake Berryessa. The Zodiak was my Boogeyman. I was very small when this happened if i had to go across the street after dark, my brother would lean over and whisper in my ear, "Don't let the Zodiac get ya!!" It would freak me out!!😢😢
Really does suck that so many have had to carry around that paranoia because of these creeps. The effect they have on a community is probably underestimated.
The movie that Mark Ruffalo is seeing in the theater around halfway through the movie is ‘Dirty Harry’ which was VERY loosely based on the Zodiac case, or at least tapped into the fear and paranoia gripping the culture then, especially in the bar area. Definitely worth seeing. Another film ‘Bullet’ staring Steve McQueen was loosely based on Ruffalo’s character Dave Toschi down to the way he dressed and holstered his pistols. The Zodiac killings really tapped into the cultural zeitgeist about the unease concerning the hippie generation and their free love and mind expanding drugs and anti-establishment sentiments. That stuff really freaked out the older generations and a lot of movies and tv shows during that time were about restoring order in a big way as a result.
@@MatiPryjomko Not "known" so much to the public, but Dave was a well respected cop within his city, so when Hollywood decided to make a "kick-ass cop movie" set in the bay, they asked around who would be a good officer for their movie star to run around with and learn from and Toschi's name kept coming up.
Thank you for the fun reaction! ☺ As for the movie's conclusion on the culprit, it's good to keep in mind that the script is based on Graysmith's book, so the story and movie are framed in a way that support the conclusion that the author himself believes to be true, which is not necessarily factual truth. 🕵♀
Yeah although I always enjoyed his books, he really got focused on his guy and no others ,but even with Lee there are things that do not match up, and he choose to discard those things and only focus on the things that did match.
I think the most terrifying thing about this movie is the fact that the bad guy technically wins. AND THIS IS A TRUE STORY. This ain't like Primal Fear or The Usual Suspects, where it's fiction, this is REAL.
This movie effected me at a pretty deep level. I grew up in Northern California in the 70s and 80s. I was obsessed with trying to figure out who did it. I graded papers in the 2000's and swore one of the guys that graded papers was the Zodiac but wasn't sure. This movie just like real life left so many questions unanswered.
Agreed. IMHO Zodiac is probably his best movie. I liked some of Fincher's stuff prior but for me this and The Social Network were the ones that placed him on the map as a great American director. Definitely helps that they have two of the greatest scripts of all time.
your talking out of your ass my friend if your saying zodiak brilliant as it is is finchers best film seven is the best film particularly the cinema photography you amateurs and mere mortals
The zodiac was probably never going to target a school bus. It was all to create a panic, see them running around in fear. Makes him feel powerful. he would not actually reveal his next move. Most serial killers have a type. Does not mean they will not kill others, just that it might not give them the high they need.
@@adroit1967 Agreed, both Se7en and The Social Network are as close to perfect as it gets. A real testament to how great those movies are that a film like Zodiac is only arguably considered better by some.
I think Zodiac and The Social Network is his best work. Almost every movie from him is great but i have to admit that i hated The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button
The book is terrifying because it reads more like casual investigstive report than a movie script. Reading direct quotes from people like the woman with the baby is 1000x scarier
Most Zodiac investigators and slueths are confident Leigh Allen is not the Zodiac. The movie is amazing but full of inaccuracies because it follows Robert Graysmiths book which is also full of inaccuracies, unfortunately. I've followed this case intimately for almost 15 years. Great movie though!
They cracked one of the unsolved cyfers only a few years ago part of it said "That was not me on the TV show" An interesting aspect of this film is that they only show scenes where there was a survivor. So any event where everyone was killed isn't shown on screen.
I saw this film in the theater on my birthday in 2007. Zodiac is of of my favorite films and oddly enough seeing it in the theater is a very fond memory. It's probably the best theater experience I've ever had on my birthday.
Here are the symbols for the Zodiac signs. Aries: Ram Taurus: Bull Gemini: Twins Cancer: Crab Leo: Lion Virgo: Maiden (or Virgin) Libra: Scales Scorpio: Scorpion Sagittarius: Archer Capricorn: Goat Aquarius: Water-Bearer Pisces: Fish
Oh man I forgot how WILD it is to hear "Riverside Press Enterprise" in regards to the first killing, in a movie this big, me having frown up in Temecula, CA. The area was so boring as a kid, it always felt so safe no matter where you went in the 90s. Plus the fact that this movie has Minkis from Boy Meets World, plus Christian Shepard from LOST in it, and then Marvel actors I became big fans of after being obsessed from Boy Meets World in my teens, LOST in my 20s, and Marvel in my 30s, it almost feels like this movie is just making references to my own TV watching life on purpose. Almost feels too personal, making it more scary for me.
One of Finchers best movies. And even with that, it was still only the 3rd best movie of 2007 behind There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men. What a year.
I really wish he'd've been able to finish the "Girl" trilogy. The conclusion of Salander's arc in "The Girl who Kicked the Hornet's Nest" was *so fucking satisfying.* I'd love to have seen it get a movie adaptation.
The first two sets of murders occurred in Vallejo, Ca. Both girls who were killed went to my high school. I didn't know them but my girlfriend did. I was home on a weekend pass from the Army on July 4th, the date of the second murders. Was with a group of friends at a parking lot talking about what to do. Suddenly every police car in town sped out to Blue Rock Springs and we decided to go see what had happened. We saw a brown car parked with both doors open and the police keeping everyone away. This happened to be exactly where I parked with my girlfriend when alone. I almost became a part of the story as my friend who was driving the car suddenly turned in front of a police car speeding to pass us. The officer slammed on his brakes and stopped just 3 inches from my door. Lucky.
Wasn't Vallejo also the beginning spot for the Golden State Killer when he was only known to ransack people's home but never actually take anything of value?
It wouldn't surprise me. Vallejo was a decent place to live in the 50's thru early 70's. It then turned into a shithole. Moved out, never to look back.
From my research on this case, and maybe you can confirm, Blue Rock Springs was a place to go at that time if you were looking to score drugs. Mike Mageau was a low rent thief who was breaking into people's homes that night when they were out watching fireworks. That's why he was wearing multiple shirts, so he could ditch one if spotted to lessen his chance of being identified. Mageau frequently would rob then fence the goods at BRS or trade them for drugs. Police know Ferrin's killer was her ex husband who came from a long line of criminals in his family.
I think David Fincher's best talent is how he uses lighting. Every shot looks polished and crisp. He directed Alien 3, Seven, The Game, Fight Club, Panic Room, Zodiac, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, The Social Network, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Gone Girl, Mank, and his latest movie The Killer, which comes out later this year. And ever since The Social Network, he's had Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross of Nine Inch Nails compose his film soundtracks. One of the greatest modern day filmmakers. By the way, I absolutely LOVE those shirts!😆
There was one big development back in 2020: one of the Zodiac's letters was finally deciphered, 51 years after it was first received by the San Francisco Chronicle. One of the guys who did it actually has a RUclips channel and made a series of videos explaining how they did it. The letter reads: "i hope you are having lots of fun in trying to catch me that wasnt me on the tv show which brings up a point about me i am not afraid of the gas chamber because it will send me to paradice all the sooner because i now have enough slaves to work for me where everyone else has nothing when they reach paradice so they are afraid of death i am not afraid because i know that my new life is life will be an easy one in paradice death" There is some controversy about that last line due to the strange wording.
Hi! I’m from Texas and we had our own boogeyman true story. Though not as famous. What was eerie about it was the time it happened. It was the forties and in the country areas up in Texarkana. The movie made about it was “The town that dreaded sundown”. It’s was nothing like the actual story, though they tried to claim it was. Anyway, the killer in this one wore a sack for a mask like zodiac. This one was never caught as well. With exception of Jack the Ripper, Zodiac is my most fascinating killer story. I grew up in that era of serial killers and never knew about it until I was grown. Even though we had the “Candyman” in my area. I lived a carefree childhood. Now I look back and am freaked out about how bad it was and not knowing what was happening.
My dad worked at an oil refinery just down the road from where the first murders took place. He was working the next night taking samples from a storage tank when he heard gunfire. And he knew from the sound that the person was shooting in his direction. He laid down on the top of the tank bet still felt really exposed, and got on the radio to call for help. The police found the security guard for the adjacent industrial park shooting at jackrabbits. He was arrested and questioned but the police quickly realized he knew nothing about the murders that took place the night before, even though they had been widely reported on. It was a really big deal. Vallejo was kind of the poor side of Solano County, but the murders took place at a little park that sits between Vallejo and Benicia. The first murder took place in 1968 more than a yr=ear before I was born, but the entire time I was growing up the Zodiac Killer was a big topic of discursion when I was a kid. My dad thinks the killer may have been in the Navy stationed at Mare Island in Vallejo or in the Airforce stationed at Travis AFB, near Fairfield where I grew up.
We were stationed at Travis AFB around '68/69. I remember it because my sister went to kindergarten there. I remember we weren't allowed to go any farther than the playground in our cluster of base housing and had to be home at a certain time. We didn't really understand why at 5 & 8 though because my parents made sure we didn't see anything about it on tv.
In 1971 a group of amateur film makers made a movie about the Zodiac Killer with the intention of catching him. The thinking was that someone as egotistical as Zodiac couldn't resist seeing a movie about himself. They even had a contest where people could win a motorcycle by writing who they think the killer is, with someone in the drop box comparing the handwriting with the handwriting of the Zodiac. At the premier the director was in the bathroom when someone said "real blood doesn't flow like that". Thinking they caught the killer, they took him to the office and tried to find a cop, but when the cop came the man had charmed the film crew out of suspicion.
The intro where Carley got spoiled by "I think the Zodiac was never caught" Reminds me of a skit where a friend is showing another friend Titanic for the first time and after the "God himself could not sink this ship" line... The friend who'd seen the movie, jokingly said "It would appear not..." The friend who hadn't seen the movie, got really mad and said "Did you just spoil it?!?" =)
Another real life crime movie: In Cold Blood. Based on the novel by Truman Capote who wrote the crime novel following the investigation , etc. A great portion of the movie was filmed on location too.
i always liked that one short moment at the end, when gyllenhal looks "zodiac" in the eye but doesnt say a thing...and then you can see that both of them have a realization ... "its him, thats the zodiac killer " and "he knows my secret"
@@ct6852I think that at that point Greysmith thought it was him and that's really all that matters. He had lost everything and maybe just believing that it was Allen so strongly what looking in his eyes was enough to be able for him to sleep at night.
@@ambergerber5162 Yeah I wanted to believe it was him too just because I hate the idea of all these people wasting so much time and resources and health of relationships. But if they came to the wrong conclusion, the matter is not settled and that relief won't last. But that's a part of what makes the movie great...it touches on the personal effects of obsession.
Because of this movie, I bought Graysmith's book -- that is, the later book he wrote, after the initial one he wrote which we see on bookstands in the film. But, in spite of all the compelling circumstantial evidence linking Arthur Leigh Allen to the Zodiac killings, a later book I read introduced a better 'candidate' for the Zodiac: a man named Earl Van Best Jr. In 2014 the book "THE MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL OF ALL" was published, written by Gary L. Stewart, who was abandoned by his father when he was an infant, and then raised by foster parents. He went on a search for his biological parents. He eventually connected with his biological mother, named Judith [Judy] Chandler. She first met Earl Van Best when she was 14 and he was 28 years old. A year later, Earl took her away with him and, once they were caught (she being only 15), he was charged with child stealing, statutory rape, and conspiracy. The story hit the news as the "Ice Cream Romance" (Earl met her at an ice cream parlor in San Francisco and fell in love), and Earl was featured -- and ridiculed -- in articles written by Paul Avery, the newspaper reporter played by Robert Downey Jr. in the movie. That's a motive for the Zodiac -- if it was Earl Van Best Jr. -- to target Avery with a threatening letter. There's plenty in Gary Stewart's book to commend it as the best (pardon the pun) 'take' on the Zodiac mystery, but let me suffice to cite page 326 in it, which presents a facsimile of one of the Zodiac code messages -- a text of 17 columns and 20 rows -- known as the "340 cipher" because 17 x 20 = 340 characters. In a letter postmarked April 20, 1970 to the San Francisco Chronicle, the Zodiac wrote: "This is the Zodiac speaking / By the way have you cracked / the last cipher I sent you? / My name is ---" (hinting that he had encoded his own name into one of his cipher texts). Now, in that "340" cipher text, the name EARLVANBESTJUNIOR (17 characters in total) is spelled out backwards (the 'E' symbol, looking like an 'O' with a horizontal line through it) in Column 17 Row 4 . . . the 'A' symbol, looking like an upward-pointing triangle [🔺] in Column 16 Row 13 . . . etc.). A forensic document examiner named Michael N. Wakshull, comparing extant samples of Earl Van Best Jr.'s handwriting to that of the Zodiac, stated in writing that he is "virtually certain" that the two sets of writings are identical. Graysmith's work was fine for what it was, and I'll admit that the case against Arthur Leigh Allen sure seems compelling . . . but the case for Earl Van Best Jr. being the Zodiac has me convinced. Best knew Anton LaVey -- the founder of the Church of Satan and author of "The Satanic Bible" -- and the notion of collecting souls as slaves in the afterlife seems to have stemmed from Best's acquaintance with a member of the British Parliament -- Alexander Victor Edward Paulet Montagu -- who invited him to Britain in 1953, where he saw Queen Elizabeth's procession for her coronation on June 2nd. One of Montagu's ancestors was reputed to have been a member of the infamous Hellfire Club, which was reputed to have been involved with devil worshiping, satanic rituals . . . as well as the occasional sacrifice of slaves. Best is quoted in the book -- by a man who had been his friend, William Lohmus, who later became friends with Gary Stewart during his search for information about the father he never knew -- as having said: "I wish I could have been there [i.e. at the Hellfire Club] for just one meeting, just to get one slave." That's a pretty creepy thing for anybody to say. Granted, it is hearsay in the book, but seeing as how "Earl Van Best Junior" is encoded in the "340 cipher" text, I'm inclined to believe that he indeed said that, long before the Zodiac mentioned acquiring slaves for his afterlife -- the victims he murdered.
I was a lowly extra in this movie! All of us extras were terrified of David Fincher since we'd heard he did a lot of yelling at the crew. Fortunately he didn't, at least when we were there. It was the very first shot of the very first day of filming out in front of the State Building in San Francisco and the costumes and cars were of the 60's. It took HOURS to get that shot! Clouds would go by and we'd have to wait since it wouldn't match a previous angle. They'd move the cameras for a different angle so that took a lot of time. The cameras would have to be reloaded, etc. etc. When we finally got a break there was a MASSIVE dash to the bathrooms!! Jake Gyllenhaal was there and was soo nice! He took pictures with whoever asked was so down to Earth. Robert Downey Jr. was there too and was as equally kind. This was before the success of 'Iron Man' so although he was famous not quite as famous later on. I was surprised at how short he was! I stand a towering 5'5" on a good day and he was maybe an inch or so taller than me. Anyhow, I was put in a van as a 'driver' across the street. As the shoot went on I'd lean back farther and farther so I wouldn't be seen. After the next break I stayed inside the building and no one noticed I wasn't in the van. Not that anyone would anyway but at least I didn't have to wait another few hours to use the bathroom!
You can tell a lot of those shots took a lot of effort. Even that very first scene driving by all the houses with the fireworks. Probably a lot more complicated than it looked. Would imagine Fincher is a perfectionist.
Back in 2007, when I first saw this, I fell down the rabbit hole of this investigation. I've read the actual case files. Read dozens and dozens of news articles from the 60s, 70s, and even more recent ones. I've read both of Graysmith's books, and I've even visited the actual crime scenes in Vallejo, San Francisco, as well as Lake Berryessa. The killer could be long dead by now, but as a California native, not knowing for sure still chills me to the bone. This movie is amazing and made so well made. It captures this time period perfectly. You can really feel the loss of innocence of this community when the Zodiac murders began.
If Califonians really lost their innocence it was in 1969 or from then on with the Tate/LaBianca murders. But I believe it is the purpertrators who lost their inncence and not the wider community. But I think it was a fact that at no other time had the licenced gun dealers ever sold so many guns for home and self protection.
@MikeGreenwood51 Manson's crimes had that affect in Southern California, but for the Bay Area, it was the Zodiac. Before his murders, the Benicia and Vallejo areas were quiet. Homicides at the time were almost non-existent. Domestic disturbances and petty robbery were as bad as it got. The Zodiac changed everything, creating a ripple effect that went into the next decade. More and more series killers would follow suit.
@Jekyll_Island_Creatures In all honesty, as much as I too thought it was solely Allen for a while, the information you find, the more the suspect pool feels muddled. To the point where all I can do is speculate. Especially since there have been recent discoveries of other suspects, so one doesn't want to be dismissive. At the same time, it's hard to ignore all the evidence that pointed to Allen. Even if it was mostly circumstantial.
Do a Google search on Thomas Horan Zodiac Hoax. He did extensive research into the Zodiac by filing a FOIA request and delving through the entire case file. He makes a virtually bulletproof argument that Zodiac was hoax, the brainchild of one Robert Graysmith and a free lance journalist Hal Snook, who was also a technical advisor on the film. The books are a pretty quick read, but will totally change your mind about Zodiac.....never existed, an apparition.
I did read Graysmith's book...the craziest thing in it that didn't make the film is that he actually went back to Bob Vaughn's house and basement a second time to check something else, even after that first visit. He once said that after seeing this film, he understood why his marriage fell apart...he was so immersed in the case he couldn't really see what he was doing to his own life.
From Wikipedia: "On October 6, 1969, Allen was interviewed by Detective JOHN LYNCH of the Vallejo Police Department." In Zodiac, Allen was portrayed by JOHN Carroll LYNCH. What are the odds?
So the actor John Carroll Lynch use to be a detective and in ‘69 he interviewed the no. one suspect, Allen and 38yrs later portrayed Allen in the Zodiac movie, cool!
As far as recent Zodiac developments go, I remember a report coming out within the last year or so concerning an old Zodiac letter that was finally deciphered. Pretty sure it was just more taunting, so it didn't exactly lead to any major discoveries otherwise.
I’ve seen thousands of horror movies, and I rarely have a visceral reaction to them, but that stabbing scene by the lake makes my stomach hurt every time; it feels TOO realistic, and that woman’s reaction and screams make me want to cry and tear off my ears at the same time.
Most disturbing scene I ever watched I agree... This is also historically accurate since it was filmed in the very place where it happened with an accurate weather... Damn you Fincher lol
"Ontario, CA" is a reference to the city of Ontario, California, and not the province of Ontario, Canada. The former was founded by a Canadian immigrant who named the city after his home province. But with both places being abbreviated the same way, it ends up being confusing for people on both sides of the border!
The Special Edition home media versions of this film include two documentaries. One, This Is the Zodiac Speaking, is the best crime documentary ever made. It was made in 2007 in conjunction with the film and all (both) surviving victims and law enforcement participated. It is amazing. If the story in the film was interesting you would love the documentary. Zero on the gruesome scale, but super informative.
The Girl with the dragon tattoo from 2011 is David Fincher's most underrated film but in my opinion his best with Daniel Craig and the phenomenal Mara Rooney Check that movie.
The movie, "Dirty Harry" with Clint Eastwood, was about the Zodiac killer in a fictional way. They called him Scorpio and portrayed him as a sadistic, cowardly psychopath. Not sure if they did this to provoke and insult the Zodiac killer or not, but it is satisfying to see a fictional cop catch and stop him using every means at his disposal.
I'm a grown man who thought movies couldn't bother him anymore & remember seeing this in the theater & finding myself actually jumpy for days afterwards. I was very familiar with the case & it still was jarring.
David Fincher is my favourite director, he absolutely nails thrillers. I fully believe Zodiac is the best true crime film of all time!! Another one of my favourites of his is "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"!!
This movie is about obsession, and there is something about Zodiac that still fascinates people 50 years later in a way that isn't true of other killers. Even today people are trying to solve his codes and putting forward new theories about Zodiac's identity, even though there have been a hundred thousand other murderers since his last killing
I know. That is brought up a bit in Mindhunter too. The sick joke about Charles Manson and the Zodiac Killer is that Richard Nixon was responsible for more deaths than they were combined in a single day in 1969. American, Vietnamese, or any of the others.
Well for two people who aren't true crime girlies/buffs, I think you did a pretty good job logically following along and asking questions. I just wanted to keep Carly safe during the 2nd murder scene. Poor Carly, believe me that scene and the basement scene gave me chills too. Cassies good on her own but when the two of you do reactions it's a winning formula.
My mother went to school with the girl that was murdered at Lake Berryessa 7:50 - Very sad time for the bay area in CA.. just to have many more killers rain down on that state. I guess growing up in CA I was really educated with the murderers especially of that state. My godmother was murdered by the Zebra killers. Jane Holly... RIP I was only a year old. Never met her, but was named Holly
I also read the book and because i lived in Vallejo during this time, it hit really close to home. The first page of the book it list the address of the first victim and i used to babysit on the street that she lived on. (Years later, of course as i was a little girl during the times of the murders). And also the doctor that pronounced her dead was a member of the church i attended. So it was really close to home. There were other circumstances that were also pretty close but too many to list here. 😮
So not many people know he is known as the Zodiac Killer, because the target symbol, is actually the logo for the Zodiac watch company. They made popular dive watches in the 50’s and 60’s. They think the killer wore a watch made by Zodiac. They still make watches, but they are owned by the Fossil watch group.
The guy playing Leigh Allen, John Carroll Lynch, directed a wonderful movie in 2017 called Lucky. Nothing like Zodiac at all, it's very easygoing and sweet and weird. Highly recommend it to all
The term 'skindiver' seems to have been meant to describe people who dived without the heavy diving suits of commercial divers. They dived before neoprene suits were developed, just wearing trunks: skin divers.
Cassie. I have to say that you are a FANTASTIC big sister!!! You IMMEDIATELY sensed Carly's discomfort and tried to ease her mind with---just out of the box---distractions. It's really quite endearing... Our VERY best to ALL of you...😊😊😊
There is a new 'Zodiac' video documentary series that was released circa 2019. That film deals with existing case file evidence as well as new data that seriously suggests Zodiac's involvement in other homicides in Riverside, and Santa Barbara, California. That docu-series is called, 'Hunt for the Zodiac.'
I lived in San Francisco when this movie came out. My moms family all lived in San Francisco in the 60s and 70s when Zodiac was active. She remembers how terrified everyone around her was while this was happening. After seeing the film, my roommate and I decided to walk 4 miles across the city to Washington and Cherry to see the spot where the cab driver was shot. It was surreal.
@@ct6852 According to Wikipedia, much of the movie was filmed in Los Angeles (the SF Chronicle building, the Hall of Justice, and the SFPD building were all filmed there, for example), but they did spend five weeks in SF filming. IMDb has the full list of locations used.
@@chasetoy1087 Oh dang. Thought maybe the Chronicle building interior was real. Seemed plausible. Went by there a couple of years ago because of the movie. I do think a fair amount of shooting for outside scenes was authentically SF and Bay.
I can't believe Carly was included in this reaction. When I saw her on the thumbnail I knew she was going to not have fun. For what it's worth, Arachnophobia is NOWHERE near as scary as this and has a lot more comedy (I absolutely HATE spiders and love Arachnophobia).
I was in college when the Zodiac killings first made the news. I think they started in 1966. These unsolved killings were the main reason I always had a roommate and would not live alone. The story at the time of the Paul Stine killing was that the police actually had the Zodiac in custody for a short time, spoke with him, got a look at him, but the police dispatcher gave out a false description of the suspect, identifying him as a Black man, and they let him go. I always wondered why these cops didn't immediately complete a composite drawing of the guy they had in custody for a short while, and why they couldn't definitively say whether or not Arthur Lee Allen was that man.
Someone already pointed out in this comment section, its not Lee because the Last letter from zodiac Just recently deciphered in 2020 stated that zodiac never call tv station. Which means Lee are the caller but not the killer, Lee is obssesed with movies and try to to be famous by disguising himself as the zodiac
My oldest uncle was friends with one of the victims, they dated in high school. I remember seeing Robert Graysmith's book among my grandma's library and always thought the cover looked scary. Seeing as I got my love of Stephen King from her, I decided I'd read it one visit. I've been hooked on the story ever since.
That movie they are watching in 29:03 is a scene from the film "Dirty Harry" about a serial killer who calls himself "Scorpio ". A Clint Eastwood classic! A must see film!
Two great Halloween "lite" movies are Signs and The Village, both written and directed by M. Night Shyamalan. Very suspenseful and with his famous twists that you aren't expecting. Joaquin Phoenix is in both and Mel Gibson is in Signs.
I just watched this movie only 2 weeks ago, and man oh man this movie gives me chills still knowing that these murders actually happened and the murderer name is still unknown.
It is sad in a way how Cassie is now immune to violent scenes in movies. She did not flinch at all at the murder scenes whilst her sisster could not bear to watch them.
That scene in the basement, the actor playing opposite of Jake Gyllenhaal is the same actor who voiced Roger Rabbit. The man is absolutely terrifying in that scene, but he's most famous for voicing a cartoon.
It was actually Ontario, California. I know, I live nearby. Fun fact: Ione Skye, the actress who played the woman in the car with the baby, is the real life daughter of Donovan, whose creepy song “Hurdy Gurdy Man” is used at the beginning and end of the film. Lots of people are convinced that Allen didn’t commit the crimes, and there’s some evidence that supports this, but there’s never been a suspect that’s as compelling.
That's exactly what i thought when first watching it. What are they doing up in Canada? BTW - a lot of evidence that Zodiac was simply the brainchild of the author Robert Graysmith. The police know who killed each of the victims, but don't have enough evidence to arrest. If you remember, one of the ciphers had a bunch of "leftover letters". If you unscramble the leftover letters it spells Robert E Graysmith. A professional researcher filed a FOIA request and got a hold of all the Zodiac files and meticulously lays out that there is no way one person committed all these murders.
I have a semi-direct connection to this case. Mel Nicolai is my friend’s grandfather. Her dad told me that Mel’s office in the movie looked exactly like the real office.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
The basement scene is a true horror scene, genuinely have never felt so uncomfortable watching a scene because there's no jump scares, no digital effects, just pure, slow burning terror.
Also, I love that every time Zodiac appears and speaks, it's always a different person and different voice since they never caught him and couldn't know what he looked or sounded like.
Agreed. The scene at the lake and the scene with the woman with the baby who is almost abducted are also terrifying. The movie isn't scary in a traditional way, but it gives you a feeling of dread and suspense that stays with you even after the movie is over.
Goodnight, Mr. Graysmith!
Cept the actor is the voice actor of Roger Rabbit. I always see him as that.
I actually lived in William Vaughn's house in the Sunset district in SF as his children rented it out after he died. The ground floor looked exactly like that, in the 'basement'. It was really dark because William had covered windows so it could be a silent movie theater to help him practice for the films, he also had an organ down there. Nearly every friend, girlfriend and my parents hated going down there, however the laundry was in the back so it couldn't be avoided.
Its also really close to a high school, and one time at lunch I was doing laundry down stairs, and I heard footsteps walk from the front of the house to the back. I grabbed a golf club and went up, thinking some kids from the HS broke in. No one was upstairs.
Since it was in the Sunset, it also was really damp, never warmed up or dried,. I remember coming home after a weekend and my bath towel was still wet. So in early 2007, I finally decided I wanted to actually live in California, and moved down the peninsula. Two months after I moved, my girlfriend and I saw Zodiac in the theaters, we nearly died when it came to that scene. That was the first time we had heard the house was related to the Zodiac killer.
The only scene I can compare it with is “Wouldst thou like the taste of butter?”
Anyone else noticing Cassie seems to be getting desensitized to violence now while Carly still can’t handle it?
Used to be "I can't watch this" now it's "close your eyes sis it'll be over soon".
She's doing better overall but she also does better when she is busy encouraging Carly.
@@mattp6089Carly really needs to toughen up a bit , it's a little silly how fragile she is .
@@darensparks It's not that serious. It's fine is she doesn't like it.
@@mattp6089 'Doing better' and it's being desensitised to violence.
The actor who played Bob Vaughan, the guy with the basement, is Charles Fleischer, who was the voice of Roger Rabbit.
THAT'S why he looked so familiar. I guess I could have looked it up on IMDb one of the number of times I've seen the movie, but for whatever reason I just never did. That's wild.
He ordered some mac n cheese and chicken at my deli one time haha. So cool.
WOW SO INTERESTING
Aw shit son, you're right!! No wonder he looked so vaguely familiar to me! 😅
I recall watching a Making-Of special about Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and seeing him always on-set in his makeshift Roger Rabbit costume to help him get into character.
The latest development in the Zodiac case is that the second cypher (Known as Z430) that was sent to the San Fransisco Chronicle, in a letter that also contained a piece of the San Fransico cab driver's bloody shirt, was finally solved, in December of 2020, by an international team of code-breakers. It took 51 years. In the solved cypher Zodiac mocks the authorities and says, " I hope you are having lots of fun trying to catch me”, however the cypher did not contain his identity. Two other short Zodiac cyphers, Z13 and Z32, remain unsolved.
Actually it was solved finally
That was so great. They started youtube series to document their progress and by the fifth episode they had allready solved it. It had remained unsolved for all those years because Zodiac made errors, but they managed to work around those.
Hey, the Culper Ring cyphers from the US Revolutionary War are still unsolved to this day. Good crypto stands up.
induced error is a powerful cryptographic tool. Like building a house with measuring tools only you know are calibrated differently. @@GonkThePowerDroid
@Jointknight in 2021 was stated Zodiak was a Gary polite who was a known psychopath was training his own posse of trained killers and he died in 2018
I know it was brutal in the beginning, but the idea was to make viewers understand what it was like with a killer walking around and preying on people at the time.
Agreed. It was necessary to show how ugly and shocking real violence is, and to show the high stakes and paranoia that ensued
Kind of surprised they never showed anything from the killer's POV. Seemed intentional not to do that.
@@ct6852 He’s never been seen lil bro
Scorpio. The villain in Dirty Harry from 1971 was loosely based on The Zodiac Killer. Ah if only Dirty Harry Callahan were duty as portrayed by Clint Eastwood:)
If you like this film I really recommend the Mindhunter TV show that Fincher later directed and produced.
YES. She did watch True Detective...so could happen. Maybe. I mean probably not...but maybe.
Such an amazing show, the performance of Cameron Britten as Ed… 😳
@@HistoritorJimaldus Omg that scene in the prison where he stood up and gave him a hug...one of the most tense moments in any movie or tv show.
Yes yes yes! Hopefully she watches this amazing show
Mindhunter is probably the best piece of television about True Crime created.
I was a kid growing up in that area of CA when this was happening. We all knew about the Zodiac killer. He was our boogyman. Though we went blithely about our lives, the anxiety of knowing he was out there lived in the back of our minds all the time.
We just had the son of Sam murders in New York during this time but it was right before I was born. There were reported connections to a cult operating out of Yonkers called the church of the final judgment.
I know what you mean. I grew up around the time and in the area of the serial killings by the Shankhill Butchers. If you can get the book its a frightening read, it was banned for a while because there was Police collusion but I think its been republished
I'm super glad you liked this one, Zodiac is one of my all-time favorites! As a native of Northern California, it still hangs over us all that the scumbag has never been captured. We recently had success catching the 'Golden State Killer' through genealogical DNA, but Zodiac remains 'at large'.
These serial killers cannot stop killing or at least harming people. That is the opinion of most major criminologists. Either the zodiac dude is in prison for other major offenses or he is dead.
@@agarlicsorbet6482In some cases, serial killers/offenders do stop, either permanently or a least for a while, mostly due to a change in there personal circumstances, like say getting married and having children. Then they may feel the urge to reoffend and resume their reign of terror.
Serial killers can, in fact, stop killing. GSK, Dennis Rader, Thomas Gorton and Zodiac are just a few examples.
Most psychologists also agree that Zodiac enjoyed the attention and fear the murders gave him more than he did killing them.
Bit late watching this, but this comment just made me realize something... I grew up in Vallejo and was a kid playing in the parks the Zodiac killed at, and the Golden State Killer was arrested/lived less than a mile from where I live now! :O
I grew up in the area that this happened. Vallejo, Napa, Lake Berryessa. The Zodiak was my Boogeyman. I was very small when this happened if i had to go across the street after dark, my brother would lean over and whisper in my ear, "Don't let the Zodiac get ya!!" It would freak me out!!😢😢
That sounds terrifying. I wish you didn't have to go through that!
Really does suck that so many have had to carry around that paranoia because of these creeps. The effect they have on a community is probably underestimated.
Big brothers can say some mean things to their little sisters. I know I did.
@@waylander1978 and I have 4 big brothers and 3 big sisters!!
😳
The movie that Mark Ruffalo is seeing in the theater around halfway through the movie is ‘Dirty Harry’ which was VERY loosely based on the Zodiac case, or at least tapped into the fear and paranoia gripping the culture then, especially in the bar area. Definitely worth seeing. Another film ‘Bullet’ staring Steve McQueen was loosely based on Ruffalo’s character Dave Toschi down to the way he dressed and holstered his pistols. The Zodiac killings really tapped into the cultural zeitgeist about the unease concerning the hippie generation and their free love and mind expanding drugs and anti-establishment sentiments. That stuff really freaked out the older generations and a lot of movies and tv shows during that time were about restoring order in a big way as a result.
*Bullitt
Was Dave Toschi known before the Zodiac case? Bullitt was released in October 1968, the Zodiac killings didn't start til December of that year.
@@MatiPryjomko Not "known" so much to the public, but Dave was a well respected cop within his city, so when Hollywood decided to make a "kick-ass cop movie" set in the bay, they asked around who would be a good officer for their movie star to run around with and learn from and Toschi's name kept coming up.
Can imagine Carly wanting to sit out the rest of October after this one. This is such an effective atmospheric mystery thriller.
After they do the Exorcist
Yea, haven't watched yet, but I can think of several gross-out monster movies she would handle better than this. This one is too real.
Thank you for the fun reaction! ☺ As for the movie's conclusion on the culprit, it's good to keep in mind that the script is based on Graysmith's book, so the story and movie are framed in a way that support the conclusion that the author himself believes to be true, which is not necessarily factual truth. 🕵♀
Yeah although I always enjoyed his books, he really got focused on his guy and no others ,but even with Lee there are things that do not match up, and he choose to discard those things and only focus on the things that did match.
I think the most terrifying thing about this movie is the fact that the bad guy technically wins. AND THIS IS A TRUE STORY. This ain't like Primal Fear or The Usual Suspects, where it's fiction, this is REAL.
One of the most underrated true crime films…extremely well done!
Nope! it's a film...based on irl stuff!
@@GoldenKnight0309I was waiting on the "underrated tribe" to show up to yet another highly acclaimed and beloved film. Heh. So silly.
@@dallesamllhals9161 , exactly.
This isnt "real". Its based on true events but, no, this movie isnt "real"
This movie effected me at a pretty deep level. I grew up in Northern California in the 70s and 80s. I was obsessed with trying to figure out who did it. I graded papers in the 2000's and swore one of the guys that graded papers was the Zodiac but wasn't sure. This movie just like real life left so many questions unanswered.
* affected
this type of movie is without a doubt David Fincher’s forte…and he has an excellent cast in this one to boot
Agreed. IMHO Zodiac is probably his best movie. I liked some of Fincher's stuff prior but for me this and The Social Network were the ones that placed him on the map as a great American director. Definitely helps that they have two of the greatest scripts of all time.
@@deckofcards87It's his most personal movie too. He vividly remembers being a kid in SF when the school bus threats were happening l.
your talking out of your ass my friend if your saying zodiak brilliant as it is is finchers best film seven is the best film particularly the cinema photography you amateurs and mere mortals
The zodiac was probably never going to target a school bus. It was all to create a panic, see them running around in fear. Makes him feel powerful. he would not actually reveal his next move. Most serial killers have a type. Does not mean they will not kill others, just that it might not give them the high they need.
I think this is David Fincher's best film. An absolute master at work.
Hard to beat Se7en and The Social Network.
@@adroit1967 Agreed, both Se7en and The Social Network are as close to perfect as it gets. A real testament to how great those movies are that a film like Zodiac is only arguably considered better by some.
I think Gone Girl is so beautifully done. Just scene to scene. Overall zodiac's story and rewatch-ability are better I think.
Fight Club, Se7en, The Social Network, Gone Girl is one of the best movies of all time
I think Zodiac and The Social Network is his best work. Almost every movie from him is great but i have to admit that i hated The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button
The book is terrifying because it reads more like casual investigstive report than a movie script. Reading direct quotes from people like the woman with the baby is 1000x scarier
Was she really traumatized by that? They never really explained how she escaped in the movie.
Most Zodiac investigators and slueths are confident Leigh Allen is not the Zodiac. The movie is amazing but full of inaccuracies because it follows Robert Graysmiths book which is also full of inaccuracies, unfortunately. I've followed this case intimately for almost 15 years. Great movie though!
They cracked one of the unsolved cyfers only a few years ago part of it said "That was not me on the TV show"
An interesting aspect of this film is that they only show scenes where there was a survivor. So any event where everyone was killed isn't shown on screen.
I saw this film in the theater on my birthday in 2007. Zodiac is of of my favorite films and oddly enough seeing it in the theater is a very fond memory. It's probably the best theater experience I've ever had on my birthday.
Here are the symbols for the Zodiac signs. Aries: Ram
Taurus: Bull
Gemini: Twins
Cancer: Crab
Leo: Lion
Virgo: Maiden (or Virgin)
Libra: Scales
Scorpio: Scorpion
Sagittarius: Archer
Capricorn: Goat
Aquarius: Water-Bearer
Pisces: Fish
Oh man I forgot how WILD it is to hear "Riverside Press Enterprise" in regards to the first killing, in a movie this big, me having frown up in Temecula, CA. The area was so boring as a kid, it always felt so safe no matter where you went in the 90s.
Plus the fact that this movie has Minkis from Boy Meets World, plus Christian Shepard from LOST in it, and then Marvel actors I became big fans of after being obsessed from Boy Meets World in my teens, LOST in my 20s, and Marvel in my 30s, it almost feels like this movie is just making references to my own TV watching life on purpose. Almost feels too personal, making it more scary for me.
The light heartedness during the intro to this reaction had me laughing like “they really have no idea” 😂
I've only seen this once and the picnic scene is disturbing.
One of Finchers best movies. And even with that, it was still only the 3rd best movie of 2007 behind There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men. What a year.
Arguably the last great year of all time great films coming out the same year.
I really wish he'd've been able to finish the "Girl" trilogy. The conclusion of Salander's arc in "The Girl who Kicked the Hornet's Nest" was *so fucking satisfying.* I'd love to have seen it get a movie adaptation.
Imdb said there Will be blood released in Jan 25 2018
@@boboboy8189then IMDb is wrong, it had a limited or awards run release in 2007. Maybe that January date was the wide release
@@SchulzEricT It actually got a movie adaptation. But only a Swedish one. :)
Fincher did a really good job recreating the call-in with Melvin Belli and Brian Cox nailed Belli’s look and mannerisms perfectly.
The first two sets of murders occurred in Vallejo, Ca. Both girls who were killed went to my high school. I didn't know them but my girlfriend did. I was home on a weekend pass from the Army on July 4th, the date of the second murders. Was with a group of friends at a parking lot talking about what to do. Suddenly every police car in town sped out to Blue Rock Springs and we decided to go see what had happened. We saw a brown car parked with both doors open and the police keeping everyone away. This happened to be exactly where I parked with my girlfriend when alone. I almost became a part of the story as my friend who was driving the car suddenly turned in front of a police car speeding to pass us. The officer slammed on his brakes and stopped just 3 inches from my door. Lucky.
Wasn't Vallejo also the beginning spot for the Golden State Killer when he was only known to ransack people's home but never actually take anything of value?
It wouldn't surprise me. Vallejo was a decent place to live in the 50's thru early 70's. It then turned into a shithole. Moved out, never to look back.
From my research on this case, and maybe you can confirm, Blue Rock Springs was a place to go at that time if you were looking to score drugs. Mike Mageau was a low rent thief who was breaking into people's homes that night when they were out watching fireworks. That's why he was wearing multiple shirts, so he could ditch one if spotted to lessen his chance of being identified. Mageau frequently would rob then fence the goods at BRS or trade them for drugs. Police know Ferrin's killer was her ex husband who came from a long line of criminals in his family.
@@MaRodney07 That was Visalia not Vallejo.
I think David Fincher's best talent is how he uses lighting. Every shot looks polished and crisp. He directed Alien 3, Seven, The Game, Fight Club, Panic Room, Zodiac, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, The Social Network, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Gone Girl, Mank, and his latest movie The Killer, which comes out later this year. And ever since The Social Network, he's had Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross of Nine Inch Nails compose his film soundtracks. One of the greatest modern day filmmakers.
By the way, I absolutely LOVE those shirts!😆
Is The Killer based on a true story?
Fincher also directed one of the most awesome music videos of all time: Billy Idol's 'Cradle Of Love' !
@@ct6852 It's actually based on a series of French graphic novels. But no, not a true story.
There was one big development back in 2020: one of the Zodiac's letters was finally deciphered, 51 years after it was first received by the San Francisco Chronicle. One of the guys who did it actually has a RUclips channel and made a series of videos explaining how they did it. The letter reads:
"i hope you are having lots of fun in trying to catch me
that wasnt me on the tv show
which brings up a point about me
i am not afraid of the gas chamber
because it will send me to paradice all the sooner
because i now have enough slaves to work for me
where everyone else has nothing when they reach paradice
so they are afraid of death
i am not afraid because i know that my new life is
life will be an easy one in paradice death"
There is some controversy about that last line due to the strange wording.
Yes the “340” cipher. Always wondered if it was just a bunch of symbols or actually said anything. Took a longtime to solve.
Hi! I’m from Texas and we had our own boogeyman true story. Though not as famous. What was eerie about it was the time it happened. It was the forties and in the country areas up in Texarkana. The movie made about it was “The town that dreaded sundown”. It’s was nothing like the actual story, though they tried to claim it was. Anyway, the killer in this one wore a sack for a mask like zodiac. This one was never caught as well. With exception of Jack the Ripper, Zodiac is my most fascinating killer story. I grew up in that era of serial killers and never knew about it until I was grown. Even though we had the “Candyman” in my area. I lived a carefree childhood. Now I look back and am freaked out about how bad it was and not knowing what was happening.
My dad worked at an oil refinery just down the road from where the first murders took place.
He was working the next night taking samples from a storage tank when he heard gunfire. And he knew from the sound that the person was shooting in his direction.
He laid down on the top of the tank bet still felt really exposed, and got on the radio to call for help.
The police found the security guard for the adjacent industrial park shooting at jackrabbits. He was arrested and questioned but the police quickly realized he knew nothing about the murders that took place the night before, even though they had been widely reported on. It was a really big deal. Vallejo was kind of the poor side of Solano County, but the murders took place at a little park that sits between Vallejo and Benicia.
The first murder took place in 1968 more than a yr=ear before I was born, but the entire time I was growing up the Zodiac Killer was a big topic of discursion when I was a kid.
My dad thinks the killer may have been in the Navy stationed at Mare Island in Vallejo or in the Airforce stationed at Travis AFB, near Fairfield where I grew up.
Valero? Probably wasn’t called valero at the time, most of the refineries changed names. The one they named in Pinole is now Philips 66
Was born in 71 and grew up on Travis AFB. Charles Manson was our next door neighbor at the state funny farm too.
That refinery was about ten minutes from my grandma's house in Vallejo. Good times. Marine World was fun.
We were stationed at Travis AFB around '68/69. I remember it because my sister went to kindergarten there. I remember we weren't allowed to go any farther than the playground in our cluster of base housing and had to be home at a certain time. We didn't really understand why at 5 & 8 though because my parents made sure we didn't see anything about it on tv.
In 1971 a group of amateur film makers made a movie about the Zodiac Killer with the intention of catching him. The thinking was that someone as egotistical as Zodiac couldn't resist seeing a movie about himself. They even had a contest where people could win a motorcycle by writing who they think the killer is, with someone in the drop box comparing the handwriting with the handwriting of the Zodiac.
At the premier the director was in the bathroom when someone said "real blood doesn't flow like that". Thinking they caught the killer, they took him to the office and tried to find a cop, but when the cop came the man had charmed the film crew out of suspicion.
For more Jake Gyllenhaal you should see Nightcrawler. Another role that is very different for him.
The intro where Carley got spoiled by "I think the Zodiac was never caught"
Reminds me of a skit where a friend is showing another friend Titanic for the first time and after the "God himself could not sink this ship" line... The friend who'd seen the movie, jokingly said "It would appear not..."
The friend who hadn't seen the movie, got really mad and said "Did you just spoil it?!?"
=)
People go a bit nuts with anti-spoiler talk sometimes. There are limits. Or there should be.
Another real life crime movie: In Cold Blood. Based on the novel by Truman Capote who wrote the crime novel following the investigation , etc. A great portion of the movie was filmed on location too.
Since they liked Zodiac, that's a great recommendation. They did a great job showing the police investigation.
Score by Quincy Jones. Fun Fact.
Arthur Leigh Allen was in Pescadero State Hospital.
Sarah Conner was in Pescadero State Hospital in "Terminator 2".
43:48 Actually, he says "Atascadero" (a maximum security mental hospital near San Luis Obispo)
I’m ready for a lot of “oh my gosh “to be said
The man who played the theater guy (in the creepy basement scene) is Charles Fleischer, who also voiced Roger Rabbit in Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
i always liked that one short moment at the end, when gyllenhal looks "zodiac" in the eye but doesnt say a thing...and then you can see that both of them have a realization ... "its him, thats the zodiac killer " and "he knows my secret"
I never felt like it was him, though. Could also be taken as he knows why he's looking at him, and it annoyed.
@@ct6852I think that at that point Greysmith thought it was him and that's really all that matters. He had lost everything and maybe just believing that it was Allen so strongly what looking in his eyes was enough to be able for him to sleep at night.
@@ambergerber5162 Yeah I wanted to believe it was him too just because I hate the idea of all these people wasting so much time and resources and health of relationships. But if they came to the wrong conclusion, the matter is not settled and that relief won't last. But that's a part of what makes the movie great...it touches on the personal effects of obsession.
@@ct6852but one of the victims identified him.
Robert Graysmith actually wrote two books about the Zodiac. Zodiac and Zodiac: Unmasked. Another great reaction to a great reaction.
I was born in the '50s, graduated high school in the '70s and I'm still young at 68, so it's entirely possible Zodiacs is still alive,
Because of this movie, I bought Graysmith's book -- that is, the later book he wrote, after the initial one he wrote which we see on bookstands in the film. But, in spite of all the compelling circumstantial evidence linking Arthur Leigh Allen to the Zodiac killings, a later book I read introduced a better 'candidate' for the Zodiac: a man named Earl Van Best Jr.
In 2014 the book "THE MOST DANGEROUS ANIMAL OF ALL" was published, written by Gary L. Stewart, who was abandoned by his father when he was an infant, and then raised by foster parents. He went on a search for his biological parents. He eventually connected with his biological mother, named Judith [Judy] Chandler. She first met Earl Van Best when she was 14 and he was 28 years old. A year later, Earl took her away with him and, once they were caught (she being only 15), he was charged with child stealing, statutory rape, and conspiracy.
The story hit the news as the "Ice Cream Romance" (Earl met her at an ice cream parlor in San Francisco and fell in love), and Earl was featured -- and ridiculed -- in articles written by Paul Avery, the newspaper reporter played by Robert Downey Jr. in the movie. That's a motive for the Zodiac -- if it was Earl Van Best Jr. -- to target Avery with a threatening letter.
There's plenty in Gary Stewart's book to commend it as the best (pardon the pun) 'take' on the Zodiac mystery, but let me suffice to cite page 326 in it, which presents a facsimile of one of the Zodiac code messages -- a text of 17 columns and 20 rows -- known as the "340 cipher" because 17 x 20 = 340 characters. In a letter postmarked April 20, 1970 to the San Francisco Chronicle, the Zodiac wrote: "This is the Zodiac speaking / By the way have you cracked / the last cipher I sent you? / My name is ---" (hinting that he had encoded his own name into one of his cipher texts). Now, in that "340" cipher text, the name EARLVANBESTJUNIOR (17 characters in total) is spelled out backwards (the 'E' symbol, looking like an 'O' with a horizontal line through it) in Column 17 Row 4 . . . the 'A' symbol, looking like an upward-pointing triangle [🔺] in Column 16 Row 13 . . . etc.). A forensic document examiner named Michael N. Wakshull, comparing extant samples of Earl Van Best Jr.'s handwriting to that of the Zodiac, stated in writing that he is "virtually certain" that the two sets of writings are identical.
Graysmith's work was fine for what it was, and I'll admit that the case against Arthur Leigh Allen sure seems compelling . . . but the case for Earl Van Best Jr. being the Zodiac has me convinced. Best knew Anton LaVey -- the founder of the Church of Satan and author of "The Satanic Bible" -- and the notion of collecting souls as slaves in the afterlife seems to have stemmed from Best's acquaintance with a member of the British Parliament -- Alexander Victor Edward Paulet Montagu -- who invited him to Britain in 1953, where he saw Queen Elizabeth's procession for her coronation on June 2nd. One of Montagu's ancestors was reputed to have been a member of the infamous Hellfire Club, which was reputed to have been involved with devil worshiping, satanic rituals . . . as well as the occasional sacrifice of slaves. Best is quoted in the book -- by a man who had been his friend, William Lohmus, who later became friends with Gary Stewart during his search for information about the father he never knew -- as having said: "I wish I could have been there [i.e. at the Hellfire Club] for just one meeting, just to get one slave." That's a pretty creepy thing for anybody to say. Granted, it is hearsay in the book, but seeing as how "Earl Van Best Junior" is encoded in the "340 cipher" text, I'm inclined to believe that he indeed said that, long before the Zodiac mentioned acquiring slaves for his afterlife -- the victims he murdered.
I was a lowly extra in this movie! All of us extras were terrified of David Fincher since we'd heard he did a lot of yelling at the crew. Fortunately he didn't, at least when we were there. It was the very first shot of the very first day of filming out in front of the State Building in San Francisco and the costumes and cars were of the 60's. It took HOURS to get that shot! Clouds would go by and we'd have to wait since it wouldn't match a previous angle. They'd move the cameras for a different angle so that took a lot of time. The cameras would have to be reloaded, etc. etc. When we finally got a break there was a MASSIVE dash to the bathrooms!!
Jake Gyllenhaal was there and was soo nice! He took pictures with whoever asked was so down to Earth. Robert Downey Jr. was there too and was as equally kind. This was before the success of 'Iron Man' so although he was famous not quite as famous later on. I was surprised at how short he was! I stand a towering 5'5" on a good day and he was maybe an inch or so taller than me.
Anyhow, I was put in a van as a 'driver' across the street. As the shoot went on I'd lean back farther and farther so I wouldn't be seen. After the next break I stayed inside the building and no one noticed I wasn't in the van. Not that anyone would anyway but at least I didn't have to wait another few hours to use the bathroom!
You can tell a lot of those shots took a lot of effort. Even that very first scene driving by all the houses with the fireworks. Probably a lot more complicated than it looked. Would imagine Fincher is a perfectionist.
Ahhhh. The glamour and glitz of show biz. At least you made it into one of the great crime films of all time IMHO.
Back in 2007, when I first saw this, I fell down the rabbit hole of this investigation. I've read the actual case files. Read dozens and dozens of news articles from the 60s, 70s, and even more recent ones. I've read both of Graysmith's books, and I've even visited the actual crime scenes in Vallejo, San Francisco, as well as Lake Berryessa. The killer could be long dead by now, but as a California native, not knowing for sure still chills me to the bone. This movie is amazing and made so well made. It captures this time period perfectly. You can really feel the loss of innocence of this community when the Zodiac murders began.
If Califonians really lost their innocence it was in 1969 or from then on with the Tate/LaBianca murders. But I believe it is the purpertrators who lost their inncence and not the wider community. But I think it was a fact that at no other time had the licenced gun dealers ever sold so many guns for home and self protection.
@MikeGreenwood51 Manson's crimes had that affect in Southern California, but for the Bay Area, it was the Zodiac. Before his murders, the Benicia and Vallejo areas were quiet. Homicides at the time were almost non-existent. Domestic disturbances and petty robbery were as bad as it got. The Zodiac changed everything, creating a ripple effect that went into the next decade. More and more series killers would follow suit.
In your research did you come to the same conclusion that Arthur Lee Allen was Zodiac or someone else?
@Jekyll_Island_Creatures In all honesty, as much as I too thought it was solely Allen for a while, the information you find, the more the suspect pool feels muddled. To the point where all I can do is speculate. Especially since there have been recent discoveries of other suspects, so one doesn't want to be dismissive. At the same time, it's hard to ignore all the evidence that pointed to Allen. Even if it was mostly circumstantial.
Do a Google search on Thomas Horan Zodiac Hoax. He did extensive research into the Zodiac by filing a FOIA request and delving through the entire case file. He makes a virtually bulletproof argument that Zodiac was hoax, the brainchild of one Robert Graysmith and a free lance journalist Hal Snook, who was also a technical advisor on the film. The books are a pretty quick read, but will totally change your mind about Zodiac.....never existed, an apparition.
I did read Graysmith's book...the craziest thing in it that didn't make the film is that he actually went back to Bob Vaughn's house and basement a second time to check something else, even after that first visit. He once said that after seeing this film, he understood why his marriage fell apart...he was so immersed in the case he couldn't really see what he was doing to his own life.
From Wikipedia: "On October 6, 1969, Allen was interviewed by Detective JOHN LYNCH of the Vallejo Police Department."
In Zodiac, Allen was portrayed by JOHN Carroll LYNCH. What are the odds?
So the actor John Carroll Lynch use to be a detective and in ‘69 he interviewed the no. one suspect, Allen and 38yrs later portrayed Allen in the Zodiac movie, cool!
This movie is a masterpiece, atmospheric, great choice of actors, and a superb soundtrack...👌
As far as recent Zodiac developments go, I remember a report coming out within the last year or so concerning an old Zodiac letter that was finally deciphered. Pretty sure it was just more taunting, so it didn't exactly lead to any major discoveries otherwise.
I’ve seen thousands of horror movies, and I rarely have a visceral reaction to them, but that stabbing scene by the lake makes my stomach hurt every time; it feels TOO realistic, and that woman’s reaction and screams make me want to cry and tear off my ears at the same time.
It's pretty disturbing.
Most disturbing scene I ever watched I agree... This is also historically accurate since it was filmed in the very place where it happened with an accurate weather... Damn you Fincher lol
Don't know if you guys have watched Spotlight but it some of the same incredible cast and is also FANTASTIC
"scary but not too scary"
LMAO THIS MOVIE IS STRAIGHT UP CHILLING
The most recent development in the Zodiac case was in one of the ciphers, where it says that he didn't call the tv station.
With all the stars in the movie, Anthony Edwards is the standout here.
LOVE your friend because she gets so scared and freaks out. Adorable.
That's her sister Carly. Cassie is on the left.
"Oh my sweet mercy" has become part my everyday speech 😂
"Ontario, CA" is a reference to the city of Ontario, California, and not the province of Ontario, Canada. The former was founded by a Canadian immigrant who named the city after his home province. But with both places being abbreviated the same way, it ends up being confusing for people on both sides of the border!
The Special Edition home media versions of this film include two documentaries. One, This Is the Zodiac Speaking, is the best crime documentary ever made. It was made in 2007 in conjunction with the film and all (both) surviving victims and law enforcement participated. It is amazing. If the story in the film was interesting you would love the documentary. Zero on the gruesome scale, but super informative.
The Girl with the dragon tattoo from 2011 is
David Fincher's most underrated film but in my opinion his best with Daniel Craig and the phenomenal Mara Rooney
Check that movie.
my favourite FIncher film.
Melvin Belli was an attorney in the Bay Area. He most famously played the “friendly Angel”, Gorgon, in an episode of the original Star Trek series.
I watched this in the cinema. The scene with the couple really haunted me. I’ve never seen it since.
That was the scene I was thinking of when she mentioned she was watching it for the channel.
I skip over the picnic scene whenever I rewatch.
its so damn brutal. i felt like i was being stabbed.
Same! Saw it at the cinema and the scenes were so effective, I only needed to see it once, and never again.
I can't watch it either. Probably because it happened to someone. I just can't handle this.
The Dead Zone is also a great movie that's more thriller than horror and it has a great story line ❤❤❤❤
The movie, "Dirty Harry" with Clint Eastwood, was about the Zodiac killer in a fictional way. They called him Scorpio and portrayed him as a sadistic, cowardly psychopath. Not sure if they did this to provoke and insult the Zodiac killer or not, but it is satisfying to see a fictional cop catch and stop him using every means at his disposal.
The movie in the theater was "Dirty Harry" (1971) w/ Clint Eastwood. The character of Scorpio mentioned in the clip was inspired by guess who
I'm a grown man who thought movies couldn't bother him anymore & remember seeing this in the theater & finding myself actually jumpy for days afterwards. I was very familiar with the case & it still was jarring.
“Is he writing a book..?” Yes the movie is based on the book
David Fincher is my favourite director, he absolutely nails thrillers. I fully believe Zodiac is the best true crime film of all time!! Another one of my favourites of his is "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"!!
Mine as well, Gone Girl and the Curious Case of Benjamin Button are among his best
This movie is about obsession, and there is something about Zodiac that still fascinates people 50 years later in a way that isn't true of other killers. Even today people are trying to solve his codes and putting forward new theories about Zodiac's identity, even though there have been a hundred thousand other murderers since his last killing
The "something" is that he was never caught.
I know. That is brought up a bit in Mindhunter too. The sick joke about Charles Manson and the Zodiac Killer is that Richard Nixon was responsible for more deaths than they were combined in a single day in 1969. American, Vietnamese, or any of the others.
Well for two people who aren't true crime girlies/buffs, I think you did a pretty good job logically following along and asking questions. I just wanted to keep Carly safe during the 2nd murder scene.
Poor Carly, believe me that scene and the basement scene gave me chills too. Cassies good on her own but when the two of you do reactions it's a winning formula.
My mother went to school with the girl that was murdered at Lake Berryessa 7:50 - Very sad time for the bay area in CA.. just to have many more killers rain down on that state. I guess growing up in CA I was really educated with the murderers especially of that state. My godmother was murdered by the Zebra killers. Jane Holly... RIP I was only a year old. Never met her, but was named Holly
I also read the book and because i lived in Vallejo during this time, it hit really close to home. The first page of the book it list the address of the first victim and i used to babysit on the street that she lived on. (Years later, of course as i was a little girl during the times of the murders). And also the doctor that pronounced her dead was a member of the church i attended. So it was really close to home. There were other circumstances that were also pretty close but too many to list here. 😮
'omg carly, stop trying to make 'fetch' happen!'
I feel like Cassie has really been enjoying herself in recent vids :)
Makes me happy to see 🥰
So not many people know he is known as the Zodiac Killer, because the target symbol, is actually the logo for the Zodiac watch company. They made popular dive watches in the 50’s and 60’s. They think the killer wore a watch made by Zodiac. They still make watches, but they are owned by the Fossil watch group.
The guy playing Leigh Allen, John Carroll Lynch, directed a wonderful movie in 2017 called Lucky. Nothing like Zodiac at all, it's very easygoing and sweet and weird. Highly recommend it to all
The term 'skindiver' seems to have been meant to describe people who dived without the heavy diving suits of commercial divers. They dived before neoprene suits were developed, just wearing trunks: skin divers.
As I seem to remember, a skin diver's only equipment is a mask, snorkel and fins and maybe a dive knife. Just the bare necessities.
Cassie. I have to say that you are a FANTASTIC big sister!!! You IMMEDIATELY sensed Carly's discomfort and tried to ease her mind with---just out of the
box---distractions. It's really quite endearing...
Our VERY best to ALL of you...😊😊😊
Without reading the comments or seeing the reaction to it yet, I'm wondering what their reaction to THAT scene will be.
I'm not a astrology believer-I'm a Cancer-but when Carly said she thought Capricorn was "a Dog" I laughed so hard I literally fell off my seat 😂🎩
So did I !
as a Capricorn ive always wondered why i love my dogs more than people, its cause im one of them!
@@markmac2206woof woof
I mean, goats are just horned dogs with hooves, right?
Goat...
When he calls into the show that’s the actual recording of his voice
There is a new 'Zodiac' video documentary series that was released circa 2019. That film deals with existing case file evidence as well as new data that seriously suggests Zodiac's involvement in other homicides in Riverside, and Santa Barbara, California. That docu-series is called, 'Hunt for the Zodiac.'
Actually Paul Avery wasn't a drunk. That was just put into the movie.
I lived in San Francisco when this movie came out. My moms family all lived in San Francisco in the 60s and 70s when Zodiac was active. She remembers how terrified everyone around her was while this was happening. After seeing the film, my roommate and I decided to walk 4 miles across the city to Washington and Cherry to see the spot where the cab driver was shot. It was surreal.
Any idea how accurate the locations are in the movie? Like were they the real corners and houses and intersections and whatnot?
@@ct6852 According to Wikipedia, much of the movie was filmed in Los Angeles (the SF Chronicle building, the Hall of Justice, and the SFPD building were all filmed there, for example), but they did spend five weeks in SF filming. IMDb has the full list of locations used.
@@chasetoy1087 Oh dang. Thought maybe the Chronicle building interior was real. Seemed plausible. Went by there a couple of years ago because of the movie. I do think a fair amount of shooting for outside scenes was authentically SF and Bay.
@@ct6852 as far as where they filmed the scene where the cab driver was killed, it was filmed exactly where it really happened. Yep.
@@DernhelmTheSheildmaiden Oh neat. That's kind of surreal.
I was in the eighth grade in a border town of Oregon. We got the Chronicle and we followed it and it terrified us as kids .
I can't believe Carly was included in this reaction. When I saw her on the thumbnail I knew she was going to not have fun. For what it's worth, Arachnophobia is NOWHERE near as scary as this and has a lot more comedy (I absolutely HATE spiders and love Arachnophobia).
While the zodiac case was going on in the 70s , Clint Eastwood made a movie similar to the zodiac killer called DIRTY HARRY
I was in college when the Zodiac killings first made the news. I think they started in 1966. These unsolved killings were the main reason I always had a roommate and would not live alone. The story at the time of the Paul Stine killing was that the police actually had the Zodiac in custody for a short time, spoke with him, got a look at him, but the police dispatcher gave out a false description of the suspect, identifying him as a Black man, and they let him go. I always wondered why these cops didn't immediately complete a composite drawing of the guy they had in custody for a short while, and why they couldn't definitively say whether or not Arthur Lee Allen was that man.
Someone already pointed out in this comment section, its not Lee because the Last letter from zodiac Just recently deciphered in 2020 stated that zodiac never call tv station. Which means Lee are the caller but not the killer, Lee is obssesed with movies and try to to be famous by disguising himself as the zodiac
David "F" also direct the music video for Judith - A Perfect Circle, which contains the greatest "putting my hair in a bun" moment in history
Remember that video he did for Madonna being on TV all the damn time growing up. And the one with the supermodels.
This is a masterpiece of a movie.
The 1980 film The Onion Field is another film that deals with a murder and the frustration and guilt of justice not being served.
My oldest uncle was friends with one of the victims, they dated in high school. I remember seeing Robert Graysmith's book among my grandma's library and always thought the cover looked scary. Seeing as I got my love of Stephen King from her, I decided I'd read it one visit. I've been hooked on the story ever since.
That movie they are watching in 29:03 is a scene from the film "Dirty Harry" about a serial killer who calls himself "Scorpio ". A Clint Eastwood classic! A must see film!
Two great Halloween "lite" movies are Signs and The Village, both written and directed by M. Night Shyamalan. Very suspenseful and with his famous twists that you aren't expecting. Joaquin Phoenix is in both and Mel Gibson is in Signs.
oh yeah those pieces of shits, they are funny to watch.
I first watched this movie when I was about 13 and I’ll never forget the couple scene at the lake
I just watched this movie only 2 weeks ago, and man oh man this movie gives me chills still knowing that these murders actually happened and the murderer name is still unknown.
Dirty Harry - The first of the Clint Eastwood films in that series was referenced in this show, and is about the Zodiac. A good film to watch.
It is sad in a way how Cassie is now immune to violent scenes in movies. She did not flinch at all at the murder scenes whilst her sisster could not bear to watch them.
You get desensitized as you start to realize that it's only a movie... it's all fake. A filmed stage play.
That scene in the basement, the actor playing opposite of Jake Gyllenhaal is the same actor who voiced Roger Rabbit. The man is absolutely terrifying in that scene, but he's most famous for voicing a cartoon.
It was actually Ontario, California. I know, I live nearby. Fun fact: Ione Skye, the actress who played the woman in the car with the baby, is the real life daughter of Donovan, whose creepy song “Hurdy Gurdy Man” is used at the beginning and end of the film. Lots of people are convinced that Allen didn’t commit the crimes, and there’s some evidence that supports this, but there’s never been a suspect that’s as compelling.
That's exactly what i thought when first watching it. What are they doing up in Canada? BTW - a lot of evidence that Zodiac was simply the brainchild of the author Robert Graysmith. The police know who killed each of the victims, but don't have enough evidence to arrest. If you remember, one of the ciphers had a bunch of "leftover letters". If you unscramble the leftover letters it spells Robert E Graysmith. A professional researcher filed a FOIA request and got a hold of all the Zodiac files and meticulously lays out that there is no way one person committed all these murders.
Another Fincher masterpiece, by the way. That is Ontario, California airport, an L.A. airport 40+ miles east.
I have a semi-direct connection to this case. Mel Nicolai is my friend’s grandfather. Her dad told me that Mel’s office in the movie looked exactly like the real office.