DMX Cable VS Microphone Cable | What's the difference?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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Not all lighting technicians are as confused as this. Some have learned enough electronics to know what terms like "impedance" and "bandwidth" actually mean. DMX digital signals are transmitted at 250 Kbits/sec, a bandwidth easily handled by low-impedance microphone cables. What's more important is how resistant the cable is to microphonics, which are static electricity disturbances caused by internal friction within the cable. To test an XLR cable for microphonics, connect it to a dynamic mic and mixing board, and turn the gain up high enough to hear noise in the channel over headphones. Wrap the mic in a pillow to keep it quiet, and whip the middle of the cable like a jump rope. If you hear crackling, that's microphonics and you'll want to ditch that cable for a higher quality brand, regardless of whether you're using it for audio or DMX signals.
Now that is an explination ive never heard. Wow. I'll be trying it in the garage tonight.
Lish Lash sounds like a lot ....
True
I know late reply. The microphonics applies to microphone cables where the signal from the mic is small fractions of a volt. Testing a microphone cable for quality for microphone use is not the same tests for DMX. DMX cable has differential 5V data. Not exactly bothered by someone on stage whipping the cable on stage. However, when the impedance is wrong and or the cable is unterminated on a long run, the impedance mismatch causes reflections in the cable which corrupts the data. The above is true IF the impedance of the cable is actually close to 120ohms, AND there is little dielectric loss of high frequencies that would attenuate the DMX signal into oblivion. Talk to a network cable installer with cable certification equipment to test your mic cable for ability to perform to spec as a high speed data cable. Ask him about NEXT (Near End Cross Talk)
We have used mic cable for years with no issue
Something that confuses a lot of people is that some lower-end DMX compatible devices use 3pin Female XLR connectors, technically this works because DMX512-A only specs the use of 3 pins, but DMX512-A specifically forbids all 3pin XLR connectors and specifies 5pin XLR connectors as the connector of choice. It also specifies cable with a characteristic impedance of 120 ohms, which mic cable doesn't have. Cat5 and RJ45 connectors are also permitted for DMX512 because the impedance on CAT5e and CAT6 is 110 ohms. Basically never use mic cable as DMX cable, even on short runs, because it will work until 5 minutes into your production.
It's pretty simple: if you just have xlr-3 cables with 110Ω impedance, you can use them freely as DMX or audio cables. And a good DMX/audio cable costs about 1-2€/m plus 1€ per plug depending on how much cable rolls you order.
The biggest and most fundamental difference is that DMX cables use RS-485 protocol essentially and therefore require the Data + and Data - pairs to be twisted pair so as to ensure signal integrity. XLR audio cables do not require this... The purpose of D+ and D- is that they are inverted signals so a HIGH (1) bit is recognised as a high signal in D+ while a low signal in D- and vicea versa... By keeping these cables twisted together the cables are ideally affected by noise equally and so when you do a comparison on the other end there should be a substantial voltage different which is not as easily affected by noise on the line as both signals will have the same or similar noise... In other words, the true difference is the twisted pair not the 120Ω / 80Ω resistance as a lower Ω/meter rating shouldn't have a massive impact, it's higher that will cause voltage drop and thus the signal may not register correctly as a high signal when it should.
Good point. Another item is dielectric absorption of the higher frequencies and what the shield is connected to. Starting with the latter,
To prevent ground loops and coupling noise from high power light dimmers into the network, the shield is NOT connected to the connector shells for both electrical safety and noise isolation. The data is opto isolated inside the equipment and signal and shield is not connected to the metal shell of the console or fixtures. The jacks are insulated.
A mic cable is fine if it has loss above 50KHZ due to dielectric materials that are selected to prevent microphonic cables. In audio, most frequencies above 20KHZ can be lost with no issues with sound quality. On the other hand a DMX cable is a DATA cable similar to a network cable and can have some microphonic cable rustle with no issues as it is not connected to hand held microphones, but it must pass data at 250KHZ with little loss, little cable reflections, no crosstalk, etc. The loss is cumulative per foot, and the shield connected to the shell introducing noise, so this is why a short microphone cable can often work in a pinch but a long cable often introduces problems.
speaking as an IT professional, the twisted cables cancels noise so the data (1s and 0s) can go the distance without noise being introduced affecting the detection of the 1's and 0s in the digital systems that need to read them or send them back. The longer the cable the more noise can be introduced into the digital line skewing the 1s and 0s. May be why many of these comments state they use the non twisted cables successfully (probably shorter runs vs longer). I found a lot of good information here as I am a newbie to the lighting scene. Thank you for all of the information and post about your experiences.
Hi, just a couple of points to discuss;
1. Audio or mic XLR cables are always balanced and grounded, unless broken. They won't work properly when single legged or without a proper ground!
2. Why do lighting engineers or A/V operators ALWAYS 'borrow/perloin/steal' our audio XLR cables to use on their DMX lighting setup?
:-)
+Colin Callan 2: Because they are stupid
Ive never seen engineers running cables. designing, organizing or controlling.. yeh, the crew does the cabling & setting of lights. Quite a difference in electrical understanding, crew v engineer.
I have been working as an engineer (audio) for 40 years and ALWAYS do my cable runs, my designs, organising and running the show. In fact most engineers worth their money WILL make sure it is all good!
A mic cable is 70 Ohms Audio cable and carries a much stronger signal than DMX, whereas a DMX Data cable is around 110 to 120 Ohms and is more heavily shielded than a mic cable. This is needed because a DMX cable needs to be a more accurate signal, hence the better shielding. You'll find that is why moving lights 'stutter' when moving and they are not smooth in operation, this is caused by using the wrong (a mic) cable and not getting a clean signal which in turn produces digital errors in the signal. Plus you can fry the chips in a moving light like this also.
If you have never seen engineers running cables you need to get out of the house!
On the flip side to your video, I run my speaker with good quality DMX cable and don`t seem to get any problems at all. This means that all my cables are DMX so I can always get the signal (light or audio) to where I`m trying to get it ( length wise) and there is never any chance I could put a wrong cable in the DMX daiseychain . Great vids.
Every company I know uses the same XLR cables for Lights or Sounds. The trick is just to get a good quality shielded XLR cable.
I actually never heard of a special "DMX cable". (DMX is the protocol to control light fixtures, the cable doesn't care what type of signal it carries).
i think he simply means five-pin xlr cable which people in the industry frequently refer to as 'dmx cable.'
Anyone reading this, please note that the statement is wrong and stupid. As mentioned in the video, DMX is digital and uses a different impedance than analog signals. A DMX cable should be optimised to carry digital signals, which usually means 110 Ohm cable impedance.
Audio xlr cables will not damage dmx equipment. If there are issues it will cause errors in the dmx signal and cause the lights or devices to behave erratically. Right now we are using audio xlr cables to run our lights as we haven't purchased dmx cables yet. We have an installed dmx line from sound room to lighting rack, about 180', this is probably dmx as it is 5 pin. I am unsure as it was already installed. It goes through 4 dimmer packs. After that is what we have added. Comes out 5pin to 3pin adapter and mic lines chaining in another 8 fixtures and just added wireless dmx and the end. Total length of mic lines is about another 200'. We have had no issues at all with this set up. So we are running 13 devices over a total of aobut 400' with mixed dmx and mic line with no issues. Is it recommended no. Are we leaving it like this, no. We have ordered dmx cable and I will be making our own custom length cables. We also order a dmx splitter/isolater so that if something does happen it won't take all the lights out.
Thank you, quick video to answer my question... now, how can you physically tell them apart if they have no writing on the outside jacket? and without opening them up?
Thanks for the video, I did know these kind of cables exist but I've never used because I've never had any problems. However, I've just bought a load of lighting gear and bought the proper cables.
One of the many reasons I use to use 3pin XLR for lighting is so I only had one pool of cable for lighting and sound - that way if I have fewer lighting fixtures I have more cable to use with sound (and vice versa). This unfortunately is the exact reason why the 5 pin cannon connector is used for DMX - you can't damage gear if the plugs physically don't fit.
The other reason is so I could parch lighting through the multi-core; normally I'd have two channels reserved on it for lighting. Although If I had any dimmers I'd run cable with a 5pin Cannon connectors and all 4 copper cores.
However I was using cable that had a braided shield and slightly thicker copper cores - no cheep cable or connectors on my rig except for a set of 4 x 3pin Cannon 2m patch cables. But then again I spent the time to build all my cable.
But I don't run lighting any more it was never something that I enjoyed doing or had the creative talent for and it doesn't help that I'm short a few blue cones in my eye.
An accident with 48V phantom power on the 5V DMX data line can totally wreck your day. Different audio cable has a fairly wide set of specs for nominal impedance and attenuation vs frequency. If you can find a good two way radio shop with TDR ability, they should be able to measure the actual cable impedance. Many "microphone or audio" cable does not have this in the specifications as it is not rated for RF or high speed data use. Not all radio shops will know how to use their equipment on something not 50 ohms and unbalanced. 2nd best is the network installers if they are able to certify cable they should be able to TDR and sweep the DMX data cable, or mic cable pressed into data service.
In regards to no cheap cable and larger cores, the core diameter changes the cable impedance, which makes it a poor match to the 120ohm DMX signal requirements. Bigger is better does not apply to network, and other data cable.
The electrical characteristics of DMX512 cable are specified in terms of impedance and capacitance (although there are often mechanical and other considerations). Cable types that are appropriate for DMX512 usage will have a nominal characteristic impedance of 120 ohms. Cat5 cable has been tested by ESTA for use with DMX512A. Microphone and line level audio cables lack the requisite electrical characteristics and are NOT suitable for DMX512. The significantly lower impedance and higher capacitance of these cables distort the DMX512 digital waveforms, which in turn can cause irregular operation or intermittent errors that are difficult to identify and correct
I personally have had may problems while using Microphone cable to transmit DMX. I have had these problems whilst doing stage lighting so I 100% agree, to save time and hassle while setting up medium - large sized rigs use DMX cable not mic cable.
How do I know what XLR and DMX is when i see them? They look like the same
Hey there jld, jut to let you know i am a big fan of these videos, as they are short and informative, definitely worth a subscription
I understand XLR cables are mono. Can I use a 5-pin XLR however as stereo?
Could I then find an TRS-to-5-pin-XLR adapter to make my signal stereo?
I connected the light controller to my 100 ft audio snake and ran it to the stage where it went to the light fixtures and I didn't have any problems. I suspect the brand of lights you have may be the reason you have issues while using XLR cables for lights.
I bought what was called a DMX extension cable for my dmx controller and dmx light , which are both made by Chauvet. I can't seem to get my head around it as won't work properly. So I seen online a DMX XLR lighting cable and bought it. I hope to get it tomorrow and hope this fixes my issue . Very frustrated
When Im doing discos though I use microphone cable in master slave mode, the maximum length for that is 2m and I've never had any issues, but if I were running a big rig or programing I'd choose DMX cable.
With my Mega Par profile I can't use an XLR cable with it. I don't know if it is just my controller or if it is the light itself??
Am i the only person who doesn't have problems when using microphone XLR as DMX cable? I have both, but I've done many a gig with my martin mac 250's, mini macs and martin roboscans while using microphone xlr as dmx cable,.. never seen an issue, but I make all mine, and I don't use a DMX terminator, you should never need one unless you're running a dmx line which is further than 100m. I doubt anyone here runs lines that far, unless like me, does outdoor staging as a professional tech.
No, your Not alone!^^
at the moment i'm using a mic lead for my 2 moving heads just because i don't have the money to get the dmx leads 9im only 12 btw so thats why i dont have much money
I receive radio waves when hooking up my pearl man tm1 tube mic into pre amp,
Its very easy to listen to the music which is coming from the radio
i have tested the equipment in another place and everything seems to work fine
i have also notice that when i play around with the 7pin mic cable the radio waves get stronger and sometimes weaker, it looks like the cable its acting like an antenna!
I've tried changing the mic cables into star quad cables and nothing changed
could anyone help??
would a power conditioner/ distribution solve the problem?
i try not to use xld cables but i have an issue with one of my led par cans disconnecting even on dmx cable
Ok so to cut a long story short, do you KNOW (no assumptions please if you are not 100% sure! ;) ) whether it's ok for me to just be buying ONLY DMX cables to use BOTH with audio AND with dmx lighting? (I mean, I've been reading that you should not do the OPPOSITE: use XLR cables for DMX lighting - cable "shielding", impedance etc etc, so that leads me to understand that XLR cables are more "limited" than DMX cables are, as they may cause problems with DMX lighting. So, what if I I justify bought DMX all the way? That way I can buy A LOT of only one cable type, DMX, and I can just use this for whatever I need. Whether lighting OR sound..) If my thinking/understanding is correct, then why would anyone even bother with XLR cables anymore. Just use DMX for everything and just stop producing XLR cables altogether to avoid confusion and mistakes! Right?
Wrong. See Sergio’s comment below, it’s fairly accurate.
yes ... XLR cables work.... for a period of time .... then they don’t. i do the lights for my church ... there is about a 75’ run from the booth to the first fixture; then there are 8 fixtures in the chain. right now all connected with XLR cables. the first service went fine with out a problem. the second service, however, the lights became unpredictable; flickering, changing color, strobing.... and i lost all control of the lights. i couldn’t even shut them down. we need DMX cables.
Hi Sir, are you using now DMX cables in your church? I am doing lighting in our church also. Thanks in advance :)
Inversely, would there ever be a benefit to use DMX lines for an audio setup rather than using typical XLRs? Thanks for the video!
XLR are often in much more quantity than DMX cables, so I think there's no point in that.
Depending on your environment you may want the extra shielding the DMX cable provides, I'm thinking of moving to all DMX because of quality of cable is way better and for boom poles with wireless it doesn't matter, but if you are running 300ft of xlr you might as well invest in wireless....
What you think about DMX splitter is it important?
I have to kind of disagree both the cables are pretty much the same apart from shielding I've used a mixture of both a big rigs and they are fine and now with a lot of lights movers led pars you don't need to use a terminator
Do you ever blink?
Where do you get your equipment from (phase one, why buy new, electromarket etc)
Probably eBay
i use 1 xlr cable to link my two t bars but its vary rare i only do it when i work with my dad or if im outside
Can I use DMX and XLR at the same time?
I use xlr for my gig's work very good for me. Don't buy or use cheap xlr something in the middle
thanks Frodo
Use audio for audio and data for data. Do it properly, or don't bother. Anecdotes are no consolation!
So if I have 8 dmx lights I can connect them using a mic cable would hit hurt the lights?
you can used microphone my friend I been used microphone cable for the Last 2 years in my megapar profile and not issue. ..microphone cable is cheaper....between cheap or expensive xlr cable difference for my is durability sound quality is same for me ...with lights you get some signal soon wait spend 99.00 dollar in expensive cable if you can spend 6.99 that's my opinion .....I prefer to have extra cables in case I need to replace cable ..to spend a lot money in just one cable...like I said it's my opinion I been using cheap cable xlr and not issue for the Last few years...
+superdjrumbero Let me clarify some things here. First off, you won't find a DMX cable the same length as a standard XLR Audio cable for 10 times the cost so how you went from $6.99 to $99.00 I am not quite sure. Further, if you are paying $6.99 for XLR Audio cables, my guess is they are garbage cables that probably barely work for audio.
Next, to answer Kenneth's original question. Whatever cable you use, provided you plug it into the correct thing (as in, don't plug a lighting cable into a sound board or a headset jack or whatever...) you won't ever hurt your lights. What might happen, though, is you might have signal loss. This can cause all sorts of things. XLR Audio cables will work for you, sometimes. If you ever notice that your lights are lagging or that they suddenly move, change color, or change intensity without being told to by the console, it is likely a cable issue. At that point you will likely want to upgrade to the proper DMX cable which is designed to better maintain the digital DMX signals. Problem here? You may get XLR Audio quality cables (or worse) if you try to buy cheap DMX cable. Not saying that you shouldn't do it, but you should be careful when making purchases.
+Kenneth mckinney It can do.
The main problems come when you mix different cable types (audio and data) at DMX data rates you're likely to have problems. If you're just running a small-scale DJ rig, and only use microphone cable, you might get away with it, but for a stage rig I don't recommend it, as it WILL give you problems once your cables exceed a certain length. All you really need to know is whether the cable is "Data cable" as the cable close-up showed. Mixing data cable and audio cable is a recipe for problems, as is using microphone cabe for more than a few metres.
The static in this recording is insane.
I ordered a 5m dmx cable and was returned with a 5m audio The seller said it was fine and i was quite annoyed after already knowing this did not work properly
Great video!
The thumbnail saying “XLR vs DMX” is stupid because dmx is the protocol and xlr is the cable type
Just to inform you guys do not buy any of the qtx dmx cables from amazon my second and third ones have just arrived ( not the same ones in my previous comment) ut they actualy have microphone cable printed on the side of the cable cheers dpp
I'm sure I purchased a DMX Cable from "DJ Kit.co.uk" and they sent an audio cable.
Thanks!
How dare you call audio xlr cheap. Xlr cables can cost upto £100!
You clearly don't know that much about your cables.
Thats cheap
Best XLR cables I have ever bought are quite cheap to be honest. Planet Waves Custom Series XLR cables are the best and they were even compared to Monogami and Monster beating them in noise reduction.
Nile McGregor He does know his stuff or he wouldn’t be doing this video or been a dj!
@@RyanMoodGAMING DJs don't have to know about high quality xlr
Ben Ballard Didn’t you read this was posted 8 months ago also I can’t even remember posting this comment
actually xlr is 3 pin
and DMX is both
No XLR is 3 pin
Sorry buddy but can't talk about cables when you have so much cable noise taking over your voice, Now is 2016 I hope you figured it out...
"Cheap audio microphone cable". XLR cable is not cheap! Dmx is cheaper than microphone XLR cable
Well yes, but actually no
do not get me wrong, but many people who will see this video have no idea what is frequency or ohms, so lets leave clear, both cables are the same, just different manufacturers, with minor technical variations for these applications, at the end shielded, the intention is to sell a shielded cable, but more expensive, so they change their names, and even worse if it add "HD" .... or "Monster" ....
would recommend only to run lines Less than 100 'and keep them away from AC voltage lines.
but if you need more than 100 ', is recommended to preamp or using any kind of process to regenerate signals, and this applies to low volts audio cables, network or data, what is true is that there are qualities of shielded cable and that can change the price.
Jaime Estevez DMX Cable (That is cable the adheres to the DMX512 Spec) is very different from the run of the mill "mic" cable. DMX512 Cable has a characteristic impedance of 120 ohms and has a minimum of one "pair" of cables that are twisted to reject interference. Personally I have seen numerous issues using mic cable at distances of less the 1m for DMX.
The key here is that the cable/connector has a characteristic impedance of 120 ohms and has a twisted pair for Data1+ and Data1-. Shielding is generally recommended because DMX is often susceptible to interference.
And a last note: You talk about DMX512 Cable like it is audio, it is certainly not it is a data cable.
ok, if you want it... then they invented a special cable only for your lights, no problem, you keep buying high-priced cable.You do not understand the point...more easier search the manufacturer of cable , not the one who puts The Brand (guitar Center, hosa, Monster, DJ x) seeks shielded cable with the features you want, and so buy it, you see that only by removing the name DMX your price changes.
this is one of the largest companies specializing in shilded cables, look for your DMX cable (does not exist)
www.belden.com/products/industrialcable/csa-instrumentation-control-cable.cfm
DMX is a spec www.usitt.org/dmx512.
There is cable that meets the DMX512 spec and cable that does not.
Jamie you have not been there when a non-spec cable has caused strobing lights and even a complete loss of control. Personally I make my own DMX cables, rarely will I ever buy a DMX cable.
DMX512 It is not a type of cable is a standard Developed, it's what you do not understand
A user faced with equipment labeled DMX512/1990 will not know whether or not the equipment complies with the original USITT DMX512/1990 standard or with DIN's version
Good video! Anyone need some XLR cable? lol.
Todd Begnoche yes
Ples ni thamil
once I used a XLR cable To control a Pinspot Light And the cable got as Hot as the girl down the street!
can i just say DMX is 5 pin and xlr is 4 pin