Brilliant video. I have had the exact same feeling paddling an epoxy into a wave as described but have never heard anyone talk about it! Cheers, I thought it was just in my imagination.
Great video. Thank you. Rare to see grey beards in surf videos. Somewhere around age 65 I decided to ride my guns in all surf sizes. What an astounding revelation. It continues to work for me at age 70. I know this is not for everyone but I also sit deeper than the pack and only take the set waves. My war wounds started to give me grief at 60-ish so I am not doing fancy tricks - more style slides (at least in my view). But I get my quota of waves and the smile is on. I think us older guys get stuck in the mindset of what equipment we surfed in our youth and what folks are using around us. I say be an individual even if it does not fit the convention, as oldies we should already have the respect and no longer need to show anyone anything. Maybe!! 🙂
I've read that the old guys at Sunset ride their massive guns and sit way out the back and catch waves long before anyone else who they pass on the way in. 🙂
Great video. Just goes to show that having an extensive quiver is the key to selecting the best board on any particular day. Regarding your comment on the mid length and paddling, I've recently purchased a 7'0" Seaside and Beyond and have been impressed by how well it goes, so much fun. I can assure you that from an exercise perspective I'm burning just as many calories each session as my RNF96. Pushing 45 litres though the break is hard work lol.
Good clip mate! To Geoffrey's point, to help counter the issue about engaging the rails on an EPS board you can go slightly thinner overall and also refine the rails a bit leaner, thinner. About EPS 'stopping' when you quit paddling, personally I don't encounter a sudden stop, but it may glide a slightly shorter distance. The best way to test a theory like this is in a pool where there's no current. A freshwater pond will suffice. One reason for any difference could possibly be foam densities of EPS and PU. This subject is less talked about. A denser/harder foam is heavier and floats less. A softer/lighter density floats more while of course weighing less...both EPS and PU. Pick your poison. To achieve more momentum and sinking ability while riding then the denser foam would be choice. What about glassing? Heavier weight cloth for strength and momentum? The lightest and strongest boards I've seen are a 1 to 1.5# density EPS with a 6/4 or 6/6 oz deck. Another great option is a PU blank glassed in Epoxy. Rusty encourages this option, and I like it as well. Point is, there's way more beneath the surface than just the type of foam or volume. Dig deeper
You're right. There's so much more more involved than just volume and foam in the construction. Unfortunately, I can't just keep buying new boards to experiment with everything, so it's an ongoing process of learning and discovery as and when I can get a new board. I've been playing with volume and foam to now, while also looking at the other things that suit my surfing and the breaks I normally surf at. Cheers.
I think the biggest difference is the fact that PU absorbs chatter - the problem is the foam fatigues and the cells breakdown and after about six months of frequent use, your board feels dead and the deck looks like the surface of the moon.
Yes. Im 60 and ride an 5'10 Pod Mod (practically same shape as RNF 96) in EPS. It has 37 L volume and paddles surprisingly well. It works in waves from thigh-high to just overhead. Like you, I like to go vert, so almost always on thruster fins (large, pivot in summer and raked in winter). Unlike PU, EPS has very little "dampening". The increased buoyancy and chatter makes it very difficult to surf in bumpy/lumpy waves. At takeoff, the bumps throw off my foot placement (or just buck me off, entirely) and, by the time I correct it, the wave is usually halfway over. When conditions are clean, the EPS pod mod surfs excellent.
Now, having ridden my 96 a fair bit, I'm using it only for small grovelly waves in the 2 - 4ft range when the surface is reasonably clean. Unlikely to buy another epoxy unless it's a groveller or some similar technology for mid-length.
I really like your reflections, i learn a lot, I feel the same as you with epoxy on deeper waves the board doesn't sink when taking off, you stay on top. I changed house and beaches and now I surf on beaches with waves with more power. I have 3 boards in epoxy sci-fi, cymatic and hypto crypt I will sell them all 3. Back to PU.
Agree re the bigger, more powerful, jacking waves the PU boards handles that better...Epoxy goes better for really clean conditions with its speed and maneuverability
Great review of the technology. I have loved my EPS boards, I have tried LFT from FireWire and SpineTek from Channel Islands. So much spark. But like you having more than one board makes it easier to balance the advantages and disadvantages. As for a mid length ... Try the Chilli Middy / Mid Strength. I have a 6'4 in 37 L and 6'8 in 40 L. SUCH a versatile board. Goes in knee to double overhead. Actually at times I have to drag myself off the 6'4. The 6'4 is your litre sweet spot 🤙
Thanks for the info. I've been looking at mid-lengths and wondering about more performance oriented vs more traditional. It seems the more performance oriented work better in slightly bigger waves, rather than 1 - 2ft grovels. Will definitely take a look at the Chilli.
@@tiagocarvalho983 both PU. Both have held up well. I have had the 6'8 for 2 years and it's still going well. Slightly yellowed when I compare it to my newer boards. The 6'4 I have had for 1 year and looks great. Both stock.
I really don't think eps and pu go that much different one of my best travel boards to Indonesia is a eps it's a ex team board though which I feel are a little lighter even in eps and it's a little thinner then the boards I ride at home. Some of the older shapers that have been around long time say you should order your eps a tad thiner to get around those issues you mentioned. Have a look at a tolhurst mid 6 if you want a performance mid length brilliant board it's a performance mid length
Thanks. Good thought on the thinness. I'll check out that Tolhurst. I was watching a video yesterday with T & C Surfboards shaper Dennis Pang. He shared an interesting thought: PU boards maintain momentum, EPS boards don't, i.e., stop paddling an EPS board and it will stop while a PU will carry some momentum. Would have some influence around getting into waves I would think.
Just realised I've spend a lot of time looking at the Tolhurst mid 6. I've been calling it the Thunderbolt mid 6. Looks like a fab board at 7' but expensive.
How old are you mate? I’m really interested in your videos and perspective as a heads up on decisions i’ll need to make with boards to come as i get older myself. Cheers
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms might also add, i’ve had exactly the same experience with eps boards. Super fun and light when you get going, but found the take off a bit late on bigger stuff too. I’ve since switched from eps back to PU. Don’t have the luxury to own two shorties, the missus is always watching haha
The reason EPS feels so terrible is because the springback time is much faster than PU which gives it that chattery feel . Its out of sync with our surfing rhythm like riding a mountain bike without shocks .The foam sucks water like a vacuum .Its plastic #6.Epoxy resin is so toxic yellows and brittles fast .Get your shaper to glass your board light make it thicker and drop the rails for sensitivity .Problem solved .
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms another great option would to be look up Cheyne Horan . He is shaping and making craft exactly for what you are describing . They may look a little outdated but they haul and perform beyond ones imagination . If you were here in California I could build you a board and solve your problem immediately . I glass my boards with tinted colors so I can see the resin puddles . I make some of the lightest polys to date with my process . I’m 62 and still surf on a progressive level . I feel your pain and mine too . 😂
I think you meant polyester resin is so toxic and brittle. One of the good things about epoxy is low VOC and it's relatively elastic (less shattering).
Brilliant video. I have had the exact same feeling paddling an epoxy into a wave as described but have never heard anyone talk about it! Cheers, I thought it was just in my imagination.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
Great video. Thank you. Rare to see grey beards in surf videos. Somewhere around age 65 I decided to ride my guns in all surf sizes. What an astounding revelation. It continues to work for me at age 70. I know this is not for everyone but I also sit deeper than the pack and only take the set waves. My war wounds started to give me grief at 60-ish so I am not doing fancy tricks - more style slides (at least in my view). But I get my quota of waves and the smile is on. I think us older guys get stuck in the mindset of what equipment we surfed in our youth and what folks are using around us. I say be an individual even if it does not fit the convention, as oldies we should already have the respect and no longer need to show anyone anything. Maybe!! 🙂
I've read that the old guys at Sunset ride their massive guns and sit way out the back and catch waves long before anyone else who they pass on the way in. 🙂
Yup! One of them old guys is me. Take care Brother. 🙂
Great video. Just goes to show that having an extensive quiver is the key to selecting the best board on any particular day. Regarding your comment on the mid length and paddling, I've recently purchased a 7'0" Seaside and Beyond and have been impressed by how well it goes, so much fun. I can assure you that from an exercise perspective I'm burning just as many calories each session as my RNF96. Pushing 45 litres though the break is hard work lol.
Pushing 84kgs through the break is hard work, too. :-)
Good clip mate! To Geoffrey's point, to help counter the issue about engaging the rails on an EPS board you can go slightly thinner overall and also refine the rails a bit leaner, thinner.
About EPS 'stopping' when you quit paddling, personally I don't encounter a sudden stop, but it may glide a slightly shorter distance. The best way to test a theory like this is in a pool where there's no current. A freshwater pond will suffice.
One reason for any difference could possibly be foam densities of EPS and PU. This subject is less talked about. A denser/harder foam is heavier and floats less. A softer/lighter density floats more while of course weighing less...both EPS and PU.
Pick your poison. To achieve more momentum and sinking ability while riding then the denser foam would be choice.
What about glassing? Heavier weight cloth for strength and momentum? The lightest and strongest boards I've seen are a 1 to 1.5# density EPS with a 6/4 or 6/6 oz deck. Another great option is a PU blank glassed in Epoxy. Rusty encourages this option, and I like it as well.
Point is, there's way more beneath the surface than just the type of foam or volume. Dig deeper
You're right. There's so much more more involved than just volume and foam in the construction. Unfortunately, I can't just keep buying new boards to experiment with everything, so it's an ongoing process of learning and discovery as and when I can get a new board. I've been playing with volume and foam to now, while also looking at the other things that suit my surfing and the breaks I normally surf at. Cheers.
I think the biggest difference is the fact that PU absorbs chatter - the problem is the foam fatigues and the cells breakdown and after about six months of frequent use, your board feels dead and the deck looks like the surface of the moon.
@@spinafex5729 I’ve gotten more than 6 months out of my pu boards but agree.
Yes. Im 60 and ride an
5'10 Pod Mod (practically same shape as RNF 96) in EPS. It has 37 L volume and paddles surprisingly well. It works in waves from thigh-high to just overhead. Like you, I like to go vert, so almost always on thruster fins (large, pivot in summer and raked in winter). Unlike PU, EPS has very little "dampening". The increased buoyancy and chatter makes it very difficult to surf in bumpy/lumpy waves. At takeoff, the bumps throw off my foot placement (or just buck me off, entirely) and, by the time I correct it, the wave is usually halfway over. When conditions are clean, the EPS pod mod surfs excellent.
Now, having ridden my 96 a fair bit, I'm using it only for small grovelly waves in the 2 - 4ft range when the surface is reasonably clean. Unlikely to buy another epoxy unless it's a groveller or some similar technology for mid-length.
I really like your reflections, i learn a lot, I feel the same as you with epoxy on deeper waves the board doesn't sink when taking off, you stay on top. I changed house and beaches and now I surf on beaches with waves with more power. I have 3 boards in epoxy sci-fi, cymatic and hypto crypt I will sell them all 3. Back to PU.
Thanks for the comment and info. Wish you well with your new board choices.
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms Thank you! I hope
Agree re the bigger, more powerful, jacking waves the PU boards handles that better...Epoxy goes better for really clean conditions with its speed and maneuverability
And smaller waves. Wouldn't surf epoxy over 4ft.
Great review of the technology. I have loved my EPS boards, I have tried LFT from FireWire and SpineTek from Channel Islands. So much spark. But like you having more than one board makes it easier to balance the advantages and disadvantages. As for a mid length ... Try the Chilli Middy / Mid Strength. I have a 6'4 in 37 L and 6'8 in 40 L. SUCH a versatile board. Goes in knee to double overhead. Actually at times I have to drag myself off the 6'4. The 6'4 is your litre sweet spot 🤙
Thanks for the info. I've been looking at mid-lengths and wondering about more performance oriented vs more traditional. It seems the more performance oriented work better in slightly bigger waves, rather than 1 - 2ft grovels. Will definitely take a look at the Chilli.
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecommsChilli have new model of mid length, the Full strength it is derived from the mid strength but is more performance.
Yours middy and strength are epoxy ou pu
@@tiagocarvalho983 both PU. Both have held up well. I have had the 6'8 for 2 years and it's still going well. Slightly yellowed when I compare it to my newer boards. The 6'4 I have had for 1 year and looks great. Both stock.
@@terenceingram7786 thank you for your reply. I am going to PU also
I really don't think eps and pu go that much different one of my best travel boards to Indonesia is a eps it's a ex team board though which I feel are a little lighter even in eps and it's a little thinner then the boards I ride at home. Some of the older shapers that have been around long time say you should order your eps a tad thiner to get around those issues you mentioned. Have a look at a tolhurst mid 6 if you want a performance mid length brilliant board it's a performance mid length
Thanks. Good thought on the thinness. I'll check out that Tolhurst. I was watching a video yesterday with T & C Surfboards shaper Dennis Pang. He shared an interesting thought: PU boards maintain momentum, EPS boards don't, i.e., stop paddling an EPS board and it will stop while a PU will carry some momentum. Would have some influence around getting into waves I would think.
Just realised I've spend a lot of time looking at the Tolhurst mid 6. I've been calling it the Thunderbolt mid 6. Looks like a fab board at 7' but expensive.
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms yeah I only refer to it as tolhurst because I'm from around the same area.
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms yeah it's expensive but being under that label probably adds the dollars to it???
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms yeah I've watched the same video I enjoy those that he puts out.
ive found a way to work with XPS, longer lasting much more flexible and waterproof and a great surf all round
Good to know!
Awesome insight,... You keep saying you're old but how old are you?
65
Tēnā koe. Nice video. I too have tried eps but on the shorter boards they felt like standing up on a cork bottle top! Can I ask your height/weight?
180cm, 84kgs.
How old are you mate? I’m really interested in your videos and perspective as a heads up on decisions i’ll need to make with boards to come as i get older myself. Cheers
65
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms still riding shorties in your 60’s. Thats awesome! Hope i can do the same :)
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms might also add, i’ve had exactly the same experience with eps boards. Super fun and light when you get going, but found the take off a bit late on bigger stuff too. I’ve since switched from eps back to PU. Don’t have the luxury to own two shorties, the missus is always watching haha
The reason EPS feels so terrible is because the springback time is much faster than PU which gives it that chattery feel . Its out of sync with our surfing rhythm like riding a mountain bike without shocks .The foam sucks water like a vacuum .Its plastic #6.Epoxy resin is so toxic yellows and brittles fast .Get your shaper to glass your board light make it thicker and drop the rails for sensitivity .Problem solved .
Thanks for the thoughts.
@@tui_ruwhiu_wavecomms another great option would to be look up Cheyne Horan . He is shaping and making craft exactly for what you are describing . They may look a little outdated but they haul and perform beyond ones imagination . If you were here in California I could build you a board and solve your problem immediately . I glass my boards with tinted colors so I can see the resin puddles . I make some of the lightest polys to date with my process . I’m 62 and still surf on a progressive level . I feel your pain and mine too . 😂
I think you meant polyester resin is so toxic and brittle. One of the good things about epoxy is low VOC and it's relatively elastic (less shattering).