this is one of the main reasons why i dont play official wow servers as they seem to attract people who will do everything they can to not actually play the game
Honestly it's not even a problem exclusive to official WoW servers either. Just look at the amount of people on Ascension and Duskhaven who insta quit groups for dungeons that are too long, skip as many bosses as possible to rush to the end, etc... It's just a general millennial and zoomer problem I think.
I got a friend who says he's only going to play wotlk on blizzard because "the character will stay there forever". Yes, forever being left behind because of bots selling gear making his beloved character falling behind a lot. I play wow for the game, not the company. Blizzard won't see me giving them my hard earned money anytime soon.
GDKP is the best loot system for people who are play a lot every week, but don't want to be tied to a guild. Don't get the item you want, you get gold. Someone bids you up, you get a bigger cut in the end. No matter what happens, you win. If it's performance based, even better, as you get rewarded for doing well and contributing. No one gets screwed by RNG, and bidding/watching bids is way more fun than rolls, because it's dynamic and player driven. You also have way more agency in gearing your character overall (for all your characters). You can't be mad at gold buyers for getting carried and paying for gear. There will always be people who get fed loot and raid spots unfairly in an MMO. GDKPs are actually more fair in these scenarios, as they are not guaranteed the gear and the people who lose that piece get paid instead of just getting screwed. No one is obligated to provide you a competent pug raid at your desired time for free. If the leader is near bis and doesn't need/want a hard res or extra soft res they can GDKP to help gear up alts.
Or.. blizz can just enforce the bots. They could hire a short term (non-disclosed) enforcement windows and thwack bots hard instead of occasionally saying "oh we banned 120k accounts" ban waves. yeah but that's after they did the damage. Dedicated mods answering only cheating or botting tickets as quickly as possible, and even "shadowbanning" like someone mentioned would be the best way to get rid of the bots, or at least alleviate the issue
banning bots is absolutely futile. It is a really basic supply-demand situation, the demand is so massive, for a botter it takes less then 1 day played to start their profit. The demand for gold buying is so high, therefore the price of gold is so high, which results in botters being able to pay for the cost of botting in less then a day. And as hamsterwheel mentioned, people, majority WANT the botters, they talk negatively about them with their words, but literally EVERY action they take tell the truth that they enjoy having bots and everything they bring, in game.
@@viaroka2625 in my head it's not impossible to deal with IF they invest the resources... Which they won't.. because it's a subscription for them and a concurrent login, which looks good on their metrics 🤷♂️
@@amil7554 ok let me ask you these short questions: how much time does it take for a bot to grind 1000g ? How many $ it costs to buy 1000g? and how much money is a monthy sub? When you answer those questions you see that is still profitable to be a botter even if he is getting banned 1 day after he buys an subscription. So even if blizzard magically manages to ban every bot 24 hours after they are created, STILL they will be there, because the price of gold is so high. Why is it so high? because, you guessed it, there is a massive demand from the playerbase.
There simply should not be a master loot in Raids, and everyone should be able to roll for the item they need. Simple as that. I don't understand why all of this should be so overcomplicated. You Raid - You get gear.
You may think this is the most "fair" thing to do but no. People would do anything for an epic, and more often than not they would need an item they don't really need just for the sake of having a slight upgrade, or for the sake of having something purple. It is clear when looking at all the raid gear that some pieces are WAY MORE efficient for a class/spec than for another which may still equip the item.
This out of hand min/maxing is like a psychological weapon against the players... Man don't worry, YOU WILL SEE ICC and YOU CAN DEFEAT ARTHAS BY PLAYING not paying...
There is a simple way to get rid of most bots and blizzard can maximize profits with almost 0 effort they need to have an auto detection system for bots that doesn't ban the bots but just silently transfer them to bot only servers where the server has only bots on including the auction house so its more like a shadow ban where they don't know it till they actively play on the character or transfer the gold off if a character gets transferred to this server lock the account from being able to buy transfers to other realms and any new created characters get auto moved to the new server
That sounds simple enough. But for starters they could just delete all the gold from character inventory, sent mails, past trades and bank if system triggers them as bots..
@@johnnymcgeez5647 But thats not to stop them from farming that gold up again with this method it would be harder to detect for botters if they are shadow banned and not target banned
@@demonpowerdr I agree completely with you, but knowing how blizzard does things i would be happy if they would at least start with just taking their gold away. That would slow them down greatly especially if done often and at random times. What blizz should also focus on doing is taking action on suspicious accounts who dont actually play the game but have very large transactions. This is at least easy to see, bunch of lvl 1 chars, very little play time and they all sit in main city and have traded vast amounts of gold. Banks do things like this irl with people who have alot of money but dont have proof for how thei got it.
@@johnnymcgeez5647 They do take away gold and "any gear/item bought with it" (not so sure about the second part), now if you are saying how much they are not "detecting" in there process and it needs improvement than I'd agree with that
@@SabentHD From what i gather, Blizz does cleaning in waves every couple of weeks, which is not nearly often enough. Botters can predict this which gives them ample time to just hide the gold away. And we dont have enough information about second part, but judging from how many lvl 1 chars there are we can be certain that its also not enough.
Dude it's disgusting everytime I log on to try to give woltk classic a chance all I see in LFG is "selling boosts" "gdkp" "you can afk selling boosts" I just log off, and I feel so dejected because I was so excited to play wrath. my shaman is in full sunwell gear and I was extremely excited to level.....it just feels so pointless now.
Solution: Gold trading is disabled within raid instances. There's no need to trade gold inside a raid instance - other than GDKP purchases. Just disable the feature inside. Could people still work around it? Sure. They could give some central person the gold upfront or wait until AFTER the run to give the gold. But then you run the increased risk of the moneyholder peacing out (scamming 25 people of 10k+ each) or you wait until the end and run the risk of someone getting loot and just refusing to pay. Sure, they get banned from future runs - but who cares?! They got their loot! Neither instance will attract many people beyond set groups who can trust each other. You know.. a regular guild run.
@@ForOne814 Assuming someone has 2 accounts and can run two copies of WOW at the same time. Not everyone can do that (or has 2 accounts), so that further restricts who can run GDKPs.
@@ForOne814 True, but again, that goes to the whole 'trust' aspect. Not to mention it would slow down the run considerably. There are always going to be ways around anything Blizzard impliments, but the more annoying and troublesome you make it, the more likely it will fall out of favor. Or be exploited by scammers and result in the same outcome.
Make instances record the level of the players that have entered it throughout its short life cycle. If there is enough of a level disparity (lvl 80 and lvl 70 both enter -> no xp is gained, no quests completed, no loot drops, no items generated through interactions (pick pocket etc). If a level 80 enters and clears the instance, leaves, invites a player to join, the new player enters the now-emptied instance -> again, disparity in levels detected -> no progress. And when disparity is detected, apply a 1h warning debuff on the players involved. If they get another warning, make them unable to trade/loot/mailbox/auction house for 24h. If they get a 3rd warning, increase it from 24h to 7d. It won't solve everything, but it will still have a large impact on making the game more playable. If players can do legit dungeon runs (as in, find a group for it fast enough) without having to pay 2 win, it'll make it less appealing for them to pay 2 win. Legit runs presents them with a challenge, overcoming that challenge makes them more competent and they'll discover the feeling of being rewarded for hard work, so they don't have to resort to p2w options later on.
Here’s a thought: Do not allow players to trade over 100g to each other while in a raid or dungeon. This way people Cannot buy gear or weapons in the game. If you can’t ban gold sellers, bots, or crush demand for buying gold. Destroy the purpose for buying the gold, this way Gdkp gear buying will not be even a thing and we can get back to playing the game like before.
Just introduce raid finder with personal loot like in MOP. You can set GS requirements to que up for different versions. If your lower in like dungeon blues and heroic dungeon purples then you get lfr version of raid gear. If you have high enough purple gear then you can get into normal raid or heroic raid. It’s simple. No gdkp and everyone wins. Guilds and pug groups can do it if they want but there will be less interest and people forced to do it if lfr is available for them to do it for free
Its somehow fucking amazing how people are looking for solutions to the bot problem when the only real solution would be to either get Blizzard to finally fucking ban them, or actually just quit and stop giving them money for their garbage service and move on to a private server or a much better game
The dungeon farming of bots can be prevented by a simple "Are you a human?"-tool - known from other websites. For example, at the beginning of a dungeon, there could be a quick riddle, which is simply solvable by any human but randomized such that a bot cannot solve it. If a player/bot cannot solve it, they will be ported out of the dungeon.
Why not just have active GMS monitoring hot spot area's and taking action with perm bans against anybody they see botting. it would force people to send their bots to less lucrative areas but the GMs could just keep catching/banning them. maybe have something flagging to them whenever a person kills a certain amount of mobs over a time-period. then investigate them. What is the cost of a few peoples weekly wages? nothing to blizzard. they need to just hire a team to combat the problem. a simple /whisper from a GM to a player grinding mobs would tell them if he's a real player or bot. they could also spectate the player. the fact is that blizzard don't care at all about bots. they just see it as more subscription fees for them. they don't care about players buying gold/items in game as long as they're still subbed, bot or not.
@@dmasiodnmiod it's not the cost of a few people's wages, it's the cost of bot accounts and gold buyer accounts not having subs anymore. You pay GMs to lose money. What you get in return? Nothing of value.
@@dmasiodnmiod I mean, you can also address my point about Blizzard getting nothing out of it. Cuz I really don't see why anyone in their place would do differently.
I hate Blizzard's lack of management. Every other private server has absolutely zero bots. Sure, the playerbase is way smaller, but so is the budget. Blizz allocates $0 to providing classic with GMs capable of assisting players and banning cheaters.
bots exist depending on the demand for their services, just like any company. Private servers does not have a big demand, while official server player LOOOOVE buying items with botters gold. That is why there is much more bots at official servers.
@@ForOne814 that is not the problem, that is the false and extremely simple logic that somehow player manage to convince each other. Bots exist because of demand. In private servers, there is an extreme small demand from playerbase for gold, so where there is no demand, there is no profit for botters. On classic servers however, there is MASSIVE demand from playerbase to buy gold. I mentioned before, but it takes less then 1 day for a botter to turn profit, as the sale price of gold is so high due to massive demand in official wow. On other words: only reason botting exists in such crazy level, is because there is a demand for gold buying in crazy levels. Blizzard can ban 10.000 accounts today, go to sleep at evening, wake up and there will be 10.000 new subs and bots gold farming: because 1 day of gold farming and selling results in more income then the months sub cost. End line: it is a player caused problem.
@@ForOne814True, however most of those players leave the game after a while, see the thing with cheating in games is that it nullifies the accomplishment. So they come in, cheat, skip half of the game and then leave saying that the game is unfulfilling. Or they stick around botting and selling blizzard games through BN conversion 😂 also a lot of players refuse to play in such an environment 😅
Hello again Hamsterwheel. I have stopped making videos quite a while ago, but I almost made a video about GDKP detailing the downward spiral it creates, but then I decided, wait a moment, lets first make a public opinion check, and opened few topics in reddit and popular discord channels. Then I decided not to make a video. Why? Because there is a MASSIVE DEMAND for paying to win. Massive amounts of people do indeed really want to just pay with their "gold" and we all know they are not grinding it. I can easily say, in my relatively informed opinion, that the people who like to actually play the game the way it was designed, without "skipping" the content with real world money usage, are a minority in modern WoW Classic audience. So.... long live Turtle WoW! Big influx of player in last months is trying hard to kill also Turtle WoW with their "lets skip everything with gold" mentality, but ban on it is killing them before they become a danger.
Perma ban bots in waves, temp ban everyone who has touched illegally obtained gold within two degrees of separation from the source account. You can ID bots with machine learning (it's called classification) & you can easily ID who the gold has been traded to using a search algorithm. The whole thing can be automated; when players may actually loose their access to the game, they'll stop engaging in risky behaviour. Problem is Blizzard would likely loose subscriptions, so what is their incentive for doing so?
@@BrentMalice It's not exactly difficult to add a little logic to avoid those kind of cases from appearing in the search space. This is an easily solvable problem for Blizzard, they're simply choosing not to address it.
@@helzing5114 yes. You hate player interactions. Also, how's GDKP pay to win? It's pay to get the loot you want from a boss you've killed instead of randomly rolling for it. Reward by merit is obviously out of the picture for pugs. It's a much better alternative to blind luck. Everyone wins. You either get the loot or the money.
@@ForOne814 How am I hating playing interations lol? GDKP is purely pay to win lmfaooooo youre literally paying for gear with ingame gold(that most of it is botted) yeah for sure bro I didnt get the memo paying 50k for a pixel that will be useful to you 4-5months max until next tier is definitely normal
@@helzing5114 GDKP is purely player-created and player-driven. You're paying for gear instead of rolling for it. In order to pay for it, you need to get it to drop first. For that, you need to kill the boss. If you can't kill the boss, you're bad at the game and you get kicked out of the raid. GDKPs aren't carries, you aren't paying to get carried, you're paying to get the items. $50k is a lot, unless you make that in a couple of hours. Those things are relative.
Gdkps should never be banned, they are the best way to distribute loot, plus its not like you have to run gdkps if you don’t want to. GDKPs make the raids worth it even if you don’t win any items
Only if they distribute portion of the gold back to raid when they finish, and they dont invite pugs and are kept as guild runs. Then they can work, otherwise with pugs its just stupid.
@@kruger7796 it ruins the game. If the game is ruined, then you can't sell these services either. Therefore, the services can be seen as a parasitical element of the game, that latches onto the game, bleeds it of players, and eventually dies when the game dies.
@@thareus20 First of all, thats just your opinion man. A huge portion of people dont care about this at all. Anyway, are you really suggesting that players should not be able to help eachother for gold in an mmo game? It checks every box of what games like these are supposed to be. A living world. Hiring mercs to help you out is nothing new.
They could remove the loot options. Everything is need/greed but you can also need/greed stuff based on your roll which you select when enterring the dungeon. Also revert BOP items being tradable.
If Blizz refuses to hire GM's to oversee gold buying, they could just make gold not tradeable in raids and items become soulbound upon hearth. It'll prompt you with a warning before hearthing to remind people that they do have tradeable items in their bag.
@@assboi Why not just use personal loot in raids with nothing tradeable...Do guilds really need Masterloot and lootcouncils to clear content? nope. People just like that so they can ninja items for themselves easier. they need to just make everything personal loot in raids and add more loot drops from each boss. It's a simple fix and it's much better than the alternative of GDKP runs and also ninja looting guilds/players.
@@ForOne814 I do get that playing GDKPs 20 hours a day is tied to your rent, and it might not be an issue for you, but for people who takes the game as a hobby and not work, it does hurt the game. Believe it or not but the huge influx of non english speakers are because of GDKPs
i think the basic problem is people are using real life cash to buy in game gold. illegally , now legally. its pay to win. its a game. its very hard to prevent. if people won't be honest, by not using real life money to buy in game items. i don't know how it will ever change.
Blizzard nerfed paladin dungeon boosting because they said it promoted gold buying. Once they figure out a way to stop people from spending 100K+ on a single piece of ulduar HM gear... they will do something about.. The return of non-tradable personal loot ;)
Nobody is going to do GDKP runs if Blizzard is even half serious about banning them. The risk of being perma-banned and losing all of your progress would be too high. All Blizzard has to do is to make a couple of examples.
They need to ban both the seller AND the buyer of Gold. And they need to ban credit card numbers associated with specific accounts, not just character names. The Bots can be dealt with in part by limiting how many characters of a class can be in a group. If you can't have half the team in a BG being DKs but instead limit teams to 1 DK per 5 character slots on a side there would be a reduction in bots. Limit the amount of gold that can be received from a single account to another account as a tool against GDKPs. If only 1000 gold can be transferred per day it will take way too long to do the big payouts of GDKPs. Finally they NEED someone to monitor the in-game email. We report spam and gold sellers and boost sellers and GDKP invites time and time again and they mostly are ignored by bliz or take 3-6 months of complaints before being acted on. Here is where they need a person to monitor the in-game mail for reports.
Issue is not gdkp its the bots farming millions of gold into the game every hour, loot systems like sr etc work for some ppl but if u want to farm gold (legimate way) and buy items i dont see anything wrong with that. Beeing able to buy 20k gold for idk 10-20euros? thats crazy
private servers arent much better, id rather pay 15 $ a month a have a stable and healthy population than jumping on a server that will die when the next fresh comes up, just look at tauri ive spent 4 years there and now its dead, barely enough people to make raids or even lfr ques
@@Zizaa95 but tauri has had their evermoon server for years, and it only died not too long ago because of Mistblade. Same exact thing happens on live servers with mass transfers from realm to realm. I know people that are stuck on shitty realms because they dont want to pay real money for a transfer. The fresh hopping is really annoying though I'll give you that
This is simply the death of a game that's been around for 2 decades. Let it die and move on. Better for everyone. If y'all don't play, they either have to fix it to make money or have it die so they don't have to worry about maintenance costs. It's golden days are long gone you guys just have to get over your addictions.
The only way is to remove all economy from the game. No trading, no auctions, no rolling on loot. This wouldn't work though because it would be really stupid.
were gdkp's a big thing in original wrath? i dont remember them being that big, though i spent most of wrath on a small server, the botting was really bad though.
they were not a big of a thing back then, but there some people that used to it. so in a way to say. yes, GDKP was a think, but it was not of a hot topic.
I talked to this guy that said he was a former blizz employee while I was playing the game. I complained about the dungeon boosting problems too and that I think there is an opportunity for a better solution. He said the reason blizz doesn't do anything to the dungeon boosting is because it is a community made thing. MC pet bombing, ZG blood plague, kiting kazzak, and many more were all community made and yet blizz stepped in to fix them. I think it was a lazy excuse of an answer because it is obvious to just about anyone that GDKP and dungeon boosting has gotten way out of hand. Here is how you might be able to fix GDKP. Make an option when loot is up for roll to there it can be "guild bound" instead of bind on pickup. Once it's decided to be bound to the guild, the loot goes to the guild bank (yes I know, we'd need guild banks in classic for this to work). Then you add a feature where a guild officer can let any player in the guild borrow said piece for a certain amount of time. Once that time is up the loot automatically goes back to the guild. This would dramatically incentivize people to stay in their guild and possibly make mega guilds on a server so they can pool gear. This also makes it so loot doesn't get lost to one player, but more so to a guild.
they might as well just sell gear in a blizz store, but the richest people in wow don't buy gold, they run gdkp's. buying gold has grown in part because of min/maxers driving up prices on the AH, high player number servers made traditional farming impossible, the only option left was buying gold. the last gdkp I went to was in vanilla, and when I have a few thousand to bid and one guy has gold cap - it's not even worth it
I have never done a GDKP run but if players want to spend money this way, who cares? You need to ban bots and gold selling. For on thing, this is way more feasible, as blizzard used to do this in the past.
GDKP are fine, many people prefer it. No reason to ban it, just avoid those runs. People need to stop crying about GDKP that many people like. Options are good.
In guilds dkp it's a scam to stack dkps from 10hc runs giving real life or not friends a disgusting advantage when they jump into 25hc runs. The roll system it's just ridiculous for guilds, it has no logic using it, it's a pugs loot system only. Loot council premise is quite interesting, if the guild is filled with good people like really adult people not cancerous jerks and ninjas, but if not unfortunately it gets extremely corrupted after a while. The only good loot system for guilds this game has is EPGP. It's simply the best because it's one automatic table of priorities of the guild's members, fully managed by the addon. Gdkp is simply horrifying I don't even know what to call to this gaming company from Hell. Blizzard is just a shit show of illegal stuff and corruption.
We run epgp and it's good but has plenty of problems still. Such as people not taking upgrades due to the cost. Personally I think a monopoly money gdkp would be the best for guilds. Give everyone 1k "points" when they join and let everyone spend what they want. Gdkp is incredibly fair in a vacuum.
You don't need to make it impossible for people to stop it, you just need to inconvenient enough to discourage people to do it. Just Dont let people trade gold in raid, do it soulbound and untradable loot. Most of my friends left the game because of the pay to win issue. Only people with no selfrespect plays a pay to win game
@Mahmut Gediz Cankaya masterloot item, runs would take longer as you'd have to bid after after boss. So making items not tradeable doesn't solve it either.
@@thatasianmike90 they solved this issea at retail with removing master loot. Remove it , it is not necessarily for the game. Guild council can decide who will choose to need the items and who will pass. All loot is soulbound
@@mahmutgedizcankaya6820 no, but you could sell Full Clear Runs, so your garantee'd a chance at personalized loot. GDKP runs will become FCR's, with a "Buy In" to join the raid.
GDKP discords rely heavily on being open to the wide playerbase so they wouldn't really be able to thrive underground. I'm not saying Blizzard should have employees dedicated to infiltrating these servers to ban organizers, but I think it would be effective if they did. One quick fix that would certainly piss a lot of people off is just lowering the gold cap. Lower it to 20k and GDKPs would become more trouble than they're worth.
yeah blizzard will never handle this right. it's a dang shame. private servers have a LOT of problems too. its really sad that, as good as wow is, there is almost no way to get a real/pure version of wow. people complain about Pay 2 Win ... but when you actually put it in front of them, in a game like wow, they just spend away like crazy. I'm only killing time here until starfield comes out. dipping my toe in for the last month to kill time has really put me off forever. very sad how greed and laziness (both from blizzard and players) has ruined such a great game.
i really see absolutely no reason why people play blizzard WoW. private servers are nearly flawless now. and have custom content, etc etc. nicer communities (despite exceptions). For every rare "omg private servers are PTW!!" there are 5 solid reasons that Blizz WoW is PTW for real. ,,|,, Blizzard.. i seriously have zero compulsion to ever play there again. They dont care about Lore, they dont care about players, they dont care about the integrity of their own game. Blizz just sits confident that there are enough cattle out there that will ignore the cancers of their crap product.
@@Taintedshadez huh? oh you mean Nostalrius? the ONE server that got shut down? I've been playing the same account on a private server for the past 6 years. It's not going anywhere and thats 6 blissful years without bot armies and other Blizz bullshit.
I just transfer from Eranukus to Faerlina, we didnt have gdkp on Eranikus, and GearScore mean something, now, all are gearscore boosted, and no one knows how to play the game, its so sad to be in a pug with all 5.2Gs for 3 hours on TOGC H, that never happend on the oger server. Pay 2 win sucks.
At this point, it's too late. There's only ~2 tiers left before end of the Classic WOTLK when they should've banned people buying gold back in mid Classic Vanilla. Even they only ban 5% of palyers that do it, that would scare off 90% of players who do it.
It's the old bots=subs thing so they won't address it. but if they cared idk maybe 2-3 employees to hang out in high traffic areas and just stomp them out. it's only temporary because AI is getting soo good but the basic programs they let people use let anyone with an internet connection tap into this. Ultimately some kind of algorithm but for this to even be a consideration for blizzard aka something they will begin work on now that people are angry there would have to be mass outrage and a mass exodus from the game. But in reality people don't make enough of a stink about it for blizzard to care most people either busy or part of the problem
Easy when the item drops it is only able to be traded for a certain time. Also i include for the same amount of time that people within the same raid ID can not trade Gold. Done.
Better yet you could just lock trading Gold to people within the same raid ID. Any gold that needs to be traded for Raid purposes has to be done before the raid begins.
GDKP is something that I hated when I still played Blizzard WoW, ALL pug raids were GDKP, can't dedicate to guild runs. It's not the only reason I left Classic but it definitely contributed.
Honestly I don't know why anyone would bother to play classic era over retail atm, the nostalgia isn't there and we already know how to beat everything in it, it's just a matter of buying the gear at this point and quitting out of disgust when you realize you actually payed for a game and then payed to not play it.
As someone who doesn't buy gold, I actually really like GDKP runs because it's a "fair" loot system for a pug, and its one of the only ways I can make gold without a network of bots lol. But yes, it does break the game for people that can just buy gold
Do they though? GDKPS, bots, and gold buying have been happening since WoW's inception. I was watching a mage PvP video from 2005 (Asian server) and I saw on a guild message in Chinese that read: MC GDKP - bring 3000+ gold. Nothing in WoW is new just happening in a different way/larger scale. I don't see the problem with earning gold organically and buying items in game with gold. After this many reiterations of the game, GDKPs are the least of our worries. It's reminds me of removing world buffs in SOM, despite the fact that plenty of players actually enjoy getting world buffs and doing as much damage as possible (as seen in Era now). I don't see why everyone shouldn't be able to play the game as they want. Botting, however, is a completely separate issue that absolutely needs to actually be handled.
this is the key, ofcourse gold buying existed for a really long time, but also hardcore raiding and minmaxing existed for a long time, but it was the 1% of the playerbase who did those things, meanwhile now it is over 50% doing it. It boils down to something so simple : Should blizzard give people what they want, or what they think the game should be? Because what playerbase CLEARLY wants, is GDKP, skipping content with buying gold, achieving rewards in game without actually playing the game, doing it just by swiping. That IS what people want. It was not 15 years ago, 15 years ago gold buying was something considered really dirty, ugly, dishonest, you werent a real player, you were a cheater to do so. Now it is "normal" and even held up as positive, as in "that is what clever players do".
well, if blizzard wants to fix everything, from botting to gdkp, it is very simple, limit the amount of gold per char, and the number of transactions per month, this would solve it all. but blizzard doesn't want to fix the game for us, they are making money from all what we are upset with, so that is why, i just quit, and went chilling on private servers, and thank you for the great content you create
i couldn’t agree more. i play on a pve semi low pop server and i like it because gdkps aren’t very popular. i think they are worse for the game than bots personally.
I recommend you play classic era servers along side wotlk classic... i see a lot of boosting, but currently ( on Firemaw EU -Horde) i dont see any calls really for GDKPs. And all together the community is really relaxed and nice = )
Before Blizz would do any of that they will use the excuse and bring back the token or straight a way to buy gear for real money. And i can see why they would do that. If so many people do it with just extra steps, why shouldnt it be Blizz who gets the cash and not some chinese gold farmer?
I don't know..the closest thing to "fixing" the problem would to be seasoned servers (lets say 1-2 for each era, so vanilla, tbc, wotlk and in the future cata when it comes out) but be VERY accelerated. Like hell, over in half a year maybe, even faster? It wouldn't fix the core problem, but at least it gives the bots a limited time to farm massive amount of gold. But even more important, people who buy gold would maybe think twice, knowing their character is going to get deleted in 3-6 months. That would be like throwing money off a cliff or whatever. Sure, oilers wouldn't mind, but I'm sure some would. And with limited time, maybe the gold prices would also increase, driving away even more people. But definitely not a 100% core fix, but at least a bandaid of some sorts. Or assume that a server and its community can have a "no DKPs on this server" kind of attitude. But that would be prolly impossible. Like im thinking everyone reports people who attend or ask for gdkps in chats. They get on a blacklist for group runs etcetc.
even if they put them out nobody would play them its funny that classic era servers are populated because of hardmode but that really translate to players prefer single player games
@@chrisbeach1566 Ban boosting as well? Make boosting for gold bannable for the player and the boosters. Let the mages find another way to make gold. it's ridiculous anyway. Blizzard only allow that in retail because they sell the gold xD boosting ruins the game, what's the point in even playing the game if you just want to sit afk and get loot giving to you for irl money. which then you can do nothing with but sit in Orgrimmar and feel like you're a chad but in reality you're a complete braindead bot with 0 idea how to play lol. it's stupid. boosting should not be allowed, period.
Banning GDKPs is completely asinine. GDKP is quite possibly the best loot system as it encourages people to go for the items they want most and discourages people from going for items that aren't very important to them. It also encourages people who already have everything they need from a raid to still continue doing the raid. Don't ban GDKP. That's just stupid. What they need to do is start banning gold buyers.
Well on private servers there aren't many gdkp runs since players can donate for gear directly... that's even worse. But what private server do so much better than blizz is bot control. No bots=no gold bloating and therefore no gdkp since majority won't be able to afford it. Does this mean that blizz can't conroll bots? No, they could do it better than anyone but they just don't want to because bots are in thousands and they pay for all those subs ...
Take Warmane Lordaeron -> no donations allowed + no shop, and yet for 7, years there is no GDKPs or gold sellers. It's just moderation dude, stop making excuses for a billion dollar company. Blizz could solve it yesterday if they wanted to.
@@thareus20 Exuse? I was making an accusation, wtf.. I said that they could stop it if they wanted to, which they dont because they are greedy. You didnt understand me correctly...
Season of discovery banned GDKP's as you suggested. Season of Discovery is now a fraction of its former player base and merging servers... Banning some player choices without banning other player choices always fails. i.e. Blizzard banned the loot distribution system of gdkp's. Blizzard has not banned the dps logs/parses. by banning player choice in loot distribution but not banning player choice in whom to bring to the raids, blizzard created a whole slew of new problems... enjoy your fractioned player base and all it's consequences of no pugs to fill gaps, extremely long battleground queues, no one to run old dungeons with your alts etc...
I hope they do start banning them cause it would mean people would just start over pricing everything from Briarthorn to Copper Bars to Netherweave. Seems majority of people who complain about GDKPs don't know how economy's work. People would just start buying low priced items and flipping them for insane prices. I honestly don't care about GDKPs cause 1- they've been in the game since vanilla, yes in vanilla they had carries but it was rare since gold was not as abundant as it is now (on Deathwing a guild called pretty pink pwnies constantly did it once they had content on farm). 2. Its better than half of the loot that most groups do anyways, Loot Council is a drama/guild destroyer, rolling is somewhat the only way you can win something but pugs aren't gonna waste the time on that system and lastly if you use something like DKP (dragon kill points) its just a currency that only has a value of you showing up meaning the person who puts little to no effort and the person who's last on damage but shows up every night can easily win that Tiny Abomination in a Jar trinket. The only down side of GDKP's is if you get some troll who fubars your cut, other than that it's easier than doing your taxes. "but but it destroys the game", no it doesn't if anything it makes people run more pugs instead of just guild runs. Not everyone can dedicate a raid schedule anymore cause most of us have jobs, families and responsibilities and I know people are gonna say "I have a wife, I work 90 hours a week and have 9 kids and I can make a raid schedule" which I'm sure you do like how my wife is actually Scarlett Johansson.
Hire employees that are willing to work as GM's in game like they used to. GM's would only be there to moderate the game (not give out items like they use to). GDKP's should be part of the game people who actually spent time farming or playing the AH should be able to spend gold how they want. Banning a system, the player base came up with is dumb. Also they don't allow others to really farm or boost anymore (still some goes on), but its less prevalent. People make there gold how they want and play the game how they want. I think that blizzard should play its game and realize, that there are issues but doing everything AI based isn't getting it done. Pay some people to be GM's in your company....
This isn't the best solution either but don't allow gold to be traded in a raid instance seems like the best option. Yes some runs easily go under 2 hours. But lots take more then that. Players of course would work around that but imo I think that would heavily slow down GDKP runs if you had to leave the instance everytime to do the loot before the next boss so you don't risk going past the 2 hour trade limit.
Banning a player run social interaction? A system that can easily be run completely outside the game. Never going to happen. Even if it could be done I dont think it should be done. Banning player interaction like this is never a good thing. The playerbase has spoken, they like GDKPs otherwise they wouldnt do them. Better to actually deal with the problem of botting for real instead. At least that is somewhat realistic.
this is one of the main reasons why i dont play official wow servers as they seem to attract people who will do everything they can to not actually play the game
same here, thats why i moved to turtle
Nothing wrong with a few Mara boosts. Just play turtle wow if you don’t like fat gold
Bro you hit the spot
Honestly it's not even a problem exclusive to official WoW servers either. Just look at the amount of people on Ascension and Duskhaven who insta quit groups for dungeons that are too long, skip as many bosses as possible to rush to the end, etc... It's just a general millennial and zoomer problem I think.
Yeah because private servers are such a holy place where tons of bs never happen!!!...oh wait.
Personal loot that is non tradeable. Problem solved?
Changing the loot system to give personal loot to the player overall would help stop these transactions if it was implemented.
Personal loot would be a good thing, also removes loot corruption from LC guilds.
Careful. The majority of the wow crowd doesn't like good ideas like this
@@noonesp3cial Majority of those people must be on the Loot Council and cry when they cant give themselves bis items 😂
I got a friend who says he's only going to play wotlk on blizzard because "the character will stay there forever". Yes, forever being left behind because of bots selling gear making his beloved character falling behind a lot. I play wow for the game, not the company. Blizzard won't see me giving them my hard earned money anytime soon.
Same here dude, I chose not to support them anymore financially.
im still trying to understand how they think ther not giving bliz ther money unless ther playing on a private server lol@godlee908
make it so you can't trade gold to people you share a raid ID with, if that's what it takes
Then they’d just trade an alt the money.
Yo hamster, its cool to see you making videos again. Thx for covering netherwing.
Thanks! :)
GDKP is the best loot system for people who are play a lot every week, but don't want to be tied to a guild. Don't get the item you want, you get gold. Someone bids you up, you get a bigger cut in the end. No matter what happens, you win. If it's performance based, even better, as you get rewarded for doing well and contributing. No one gets screwed by RNG, and bidding/watching bids is way more fun than rolls, because it's dynamic and player driven. You also have way more agency in gearing your character overall (for all your characters).
You can't be mad at gold buyers for getting carried and paying for gear. There will always be people who get fed loot and raid spots unfairly in an MMO. GDKPs are actually more fair in these scenarios, as they are not guaranteed the gear and the people who lose that piece get paid instead of just getting screwed.
No one is obligated to provide you a competent pug raid at your desired time for free. If the leader is near bis and doesn't need/want a hard res or extra soft res they can GDKP to help gear up alts.
Or.. blizz can just enforce the bots. They could hire a short term (non-disclosed) enforcement windows and thwack bots hard instead of occasionally saying "oh we banned 120k accounts" ban waves. yeah but that's after they did the damage. Dedicated mods answering only cheating or botting tickets as quickly as possible, and even "shadowbanning" like someone mentioned would be the best way to get rid of the bots, or at least alleviate the issue
but that costs money. blizzard loves money, not spending it on stuff that they wont make money. gold sellers indirectly earn them money.
@@fckihate69jokes lol i know right? Blizzard loves money more than Mr Crabs from Spongebob
banning bots is absolutely futile. It is a really basic supply-demand situation, the demand is so massive, for a botter it takes less then 1 day played to start their profit. The demand for gold buying is so high, therefore the price of gold is so high, which results in botters being able to pay for the cost of botting in less then a day. And as hamsterwheel mentioned, people, majority WANT the botters, they talk negatively about them with their words, but literally EVERY action they take tell the truth that they enjoy having bots and everything they bring, in game.
@@viaroka2625 in my head it's not impossible to deal with IF they invest the resources... Which they won't.. because it's a subscription for them and a concurrent login, which looks good on their metrics 🤷♂️
@@amil7554 ok let me ask you these short questions: how much time does it take for a bot to grind 1000g ? How many $ it costs to buy 1000g? and how much money is a monthy sub? When you answer those questions you see that is still profitable to be a botter even if he is getting banned 1 day after he buys an subscription. So even if blizzard magically manages to ban every bot 24 hours after they are created, STILL they will be there, because the price of gold is so high. Why is it so high? because, you guessed it, there is a massive demand from the playerbase.
I got a sub to play Wrath yesterday.. I already canceled it because no one talks in channels, it's all GDKP
Or just ban bots, and continue to let players do whatever they want
Found the GDKP raid organizer.
gdkps have to go
@@panzer4720just because you are lazy and have no gold
@@panzer4720 why? Because you don't like them?
@@ForOne814 Yes? Because they consist of free carries for people of less skill with a big enough bank account, invalidating personal progress
There simply should not be a master loot in Raids, and everyone should be able to roll for the item they need. Simple as that.
I don't understand why all of this should be so overcomplicated. You Raid - You get gear.
You may think this is the most "fair" thing to do but no. People would do anything for an epic, and more often than not they would need an item they don't really need just for the sake of having a slight upgrade, or for the sake of having something purple. It is clear when looking at all the raid gear that some pieces are WAY MORE efficient for a class/spec than for another which may still equip the item.
This out of hand min/maxing is like a psychological weapon against the players... Man don't worry, YOU WILL SEE ICC and YOU CAN DEFEAT ARTHAS BY PLAYING not paying...
Bots are active income for blizz.
It's crazy how a lot of people tells Warmane is bad server because you have item shop,when you have the same thing on a different way on classic 😁
its the same people saying they hate gold farmers but also buy that gold
@@SA-jx7ti true,mybe more people prefer that way
Or just ban gold selling/buying and bots? I’ve never bought gold, but I’ve joined a few gdkps when I’ve had surplus gold, or when I’ve needed gold.
There is a simple way to get rid of most bots and blizzard can maximize profits with almost 0 effort they need to have an auto detection system for bots that doesn't ban the bots but just silently transfer them to bot only servers where the server has only bots on including the auction house so its more like a shadow ban where they don't know it till they actively play on the character or transfer the gold off if a character gets transferred to this server lock the account from being able to buy transfers to other realms and any new created characters get auto moved to the new server
That sounds simple enough. But for starters they could just delete all the gold from character inventory, sent mails, past trades and bank if system triggers them as bots..
@@johnnymcgeez5647 But thats not to stop them from farming that gold up again with this method it would be harder to detect for botters if they are shadow banned and not target banned
@@demonpowerdr I agree completely with you, but knowing how blizzard does things i would be happy if they would at least start with just taking their gold away. That would slow them down greatly especially if done often and at random times. What blizz should also focus on doing is taking action on suspicious accounts who dont actually play the game but have very large transactions. This is at least easy to see, bunch of lvl 1 chars, very little play time and they all sit in main city and have traded vast amounts of gold. Banks do things like this irl with people who have alot of money but dont have proof for how thei got it.
@@johnnymcgeez5647 They do take away gold and "any gear/item bought with it" (not so sure about the second part), now if you are saying how much they are not "detecting" in there process and it needs improvement than I'd agree with that
@@SabentHD From what i gather, Blizz does cleaning in waves every couple of weeks, which is not nearly often enough. Botters can predict this which gives them ample time to just hide the gold away. And we dont have enough information about second part, but judging from how many lvl 1 chars there are we can be certain that its also not enough.
Dude it's disgusting everytime I log on to try to give woltk classic a chance all I see in LFG is "selling boosts" "gdkp" "you can afk selling boosts" I just log off, and I feel so dejected because I was so excited to play wrath. my shaman is in full sunwell gear and I was extremely excited to level.....it just feels so pointless now.
Solution: Gold trading is disabled within raid instances. There's no need to trade gold inside a raid instance - other than GDKP purchases. Just disable the feature inside. Could people still work around it? Sure. They could give some central person the gold upfront or wait until AFTER the run to give the gold. But then you run the increased risk of the moneyholder peacing out (scamming 25 people of 10k+ each) or you wait until the end and run the risk of someone getting loot and just refusing to pay. Sure, they get banned from future runs - but who cares?! They got their loot!
Neither instance will attract many people beyond set groups who can trust each other. You know.. a regular guild run.
Just trade gold on separate characters.
@@ForOne814 Assuming someone has 2 accounts and can run two copies of WOW at the same time. Not everyone can do that (or has 2 accounts), so that further restricts who can run GDKPs.
@@msugraduatestudent you can literally just relog into another character as well.
@@ForOne814 True, but again, that goes to the whole 'trust' aspect. Not to mention it would slow down the run considerably. There are always going to be ways around anything Blizzard impliments, but the more annoying and troublesome you make it, the more likely it will fall out of favor. Or be exploited by scammers and result in the same outcome.
@@msugraduatestudent I mean, you can always just start trading actual money and not gold.
Make instances record the level of the players that have entered it throughout its short life cycle. If there is enough of a level disparity (lvl 80 and lvl 70 both enter -> no xp is gained, no quests completed, no loot drops, no items generated through interactions (pick pocket etc). If a level 80 enters and clears the instance, leaves, invites a player to join, the new player enters the now-emptied instance -> again, disparity in levels detected -> no progress. And when disparity is detected, apply a 1h warning debuff on the players involved. If they get another warning, make them unable to trade/loot/mailbox/auction house for 24h. If they get a 3rd warning, increase it from 24h to 7d. It won't solve everything, but it will still have a large impact on making the game more playable. If players can do legit dungeon runs (as in, find a group for it fast enough) without having to pay 2 win, it'll make it less appealing for them to pay 2 win. Legit runs presents them with a challenge, overcoming that challenge makes them more competent and they'll discover the feeling of being rewarded for hard work, so they don't have to resort to p2w options later on.
thats too much for blizzards automated services to do. they have to hire an actual person to do this thing.
What? He basically described the system in pseudo code how is that not an automated system?
is the footage from 2:13 from a private server? I don't recognize the environment and someone in trade linked a m+ keystone for SFK.
Here’s a thought: Do not allow players to trade over 100g to each other while in a raid or dungeon. This way people Cannot buy gear or weapons in the game. If you can’t ban gold sellers, bots, or crush demand for buying gold. Destroy the purpose for buying the gold, this way Gdkp gear buying will not be even a thing and we can get back to playing the game like before.
Yet again the group can exit the instance and the biddings are open.
Just introduce raid finder with personal loot like in MOP. You can set GS requirements to que up for different versions. If your lower in like dungeon blues and heroic dungeon purples then you get lfr version of raid gear. If you have high enough purple gear then you can get into normal raid or heroic raid. It’s simple. No gdkp and everyone wins. Guilds and pug groups can do it if they want but there will be less interest and people forced to do it if lfr is available for them to do it for free
The problem is not GDKP.
The problem is blizzard not banning bots lol
I there was no GDP,there would be no bots. See how both sides are wrong?
Its somehow fucking amazing how people are looking for solutions to the bot problem when the only real solution would be to either get Blizzard to finally fucking ban them, or actually just quit and stop giving them money for their garbage service and move on to a private server or a much better game
Incorrect. The problem is playing on Blizzard servers.
Even without bots, gdkp is antithetical to the game and should be banned. Its exploitive and cheating.
The dungeon farming of bots can be prevented by a simple "Are you a human?"-tool - known from other websites.
For example, at the beginning of a dungeon, there could be a quick riddle, which is simply solvable by any human but randomized such that a bot cannot solve it.
If a player/bot cannot solve it, they will be ported out of the dungeon.
🤣
Why not just have active GMS monitoring hot spot area's and taking action with perm bans against anybody they see botting. it would force people to send their bots to less lucrative areas but the GMs could just keep catching/banning them. maybe have something flagging to them whenever a person kills a certain amount of mobs over a time-period. then investigate them. What is the cost of a few peoples weekly wages? nothing to blizzard. they need to just hire a team to combat the problem. a simple /whisper from a GM to a player grinding mobs would tell them if he's a real player or bot. they could also spectate the player. the fact is that blizzard don't care at all about bots. they just see it as more subscription fees for them. they don't care about players buying gold/items in game as long as they're still subbed, bot or not.
@@dmasiodnmiod it's not the cost of a few people's wages, it's the cost of bot accounts and gold buyer accounts not having subs anymore. You pay GMs to lose money. What you get in return? Nothing of value.
@@ForOne814 I know, blizzard will never deal with the problem because of that. read my full comment I already said that.
@@dmasiodnmiod I mean, you can also address my point about Blizzard getting nothing out of it. Cuz I really don't see why anyone in their place would do differently.
I hate Blizzard's lack of management. Every other private server has absolutely zero bots. Sure, the playerbase is way smaller, but so is the budget. Blizz allocates $0 to providing classic with GMs capable of assisting players and banning cheaters.
Bots lose private servers money, bots make Blizzard money. Why would Blizzard deal with bots?
bots exist depending on the demand for their services, just like any company. Private servers does not have a big demand, while official server player LOOOOVE buying items with botters gold. That is why there is much more bots at official servers.
@@ForOne814 that is not the problem, that is the false and extremely simple logic that somehow player manage to convince each other. Bots exist because of demand. In private servers, there is an extreme small demand from playerbase for gold, so where there is no demand, there is no profit for botters. On classic servers however, there is MASSIVE demand from playerbase to buy gold. I mentioned before, but it takes less then 1 day for a botter to turn profit, as the sale price of gold is so high due to massive demand in official wow. On other words: only reason botting exists in such crazy level, is because there is a demand for gold buying in crazy levels. Blizzard can ban 10.000 accounts today, go to sleep at evening, wake up and there will be 10.000 new subs and bots gold farming: because 1 day of gold farming and selling results in more income then the months sub cost. End line: it is a player caused problem.
@@viaroka2625 so it's not a problem at all then, it's a service that players want to have.
@@ForOne814True, however most of those players leave the game after a while, see the thing with cheating in games is that it nullifies the accomplishment. So they come in, cheat, skip half of the game and then leave saying that the game is unfulfilling. Or they stick around botting and selling blizzard games through BN conversion 😂 also a lot of players refuse to play in such an environment 😅
Hello again Hamsterwheel. I have stopped making videos quite a while ago, but I almost made a video about GDKP detailing the downward spiral it creates, but then I decided, wait a moment, lets first make a public opinion check, and opened few topics in reddit and popular discord channels. Then I decided not to make a video. Why? Because there is a MASSIVE DEMAND for paying to win. Massive amounts of people do indeed really want to just pay with their "gold" and we all know they are not grinding it. I can easily say, in my relatively informed opinion, that the people who like to actually play the game the way it was designed, without "skipping" the content with real world money usage, are a minority in modern WoW Classic audience.
So.... long live Turtle WoW! Big influx of player in last months is trying hard to kill also Turtle WoW with their "lets skip everything with gold" mentality, but ban on it is killing them before they become a danger.
Well said, a lot of people like them and a lot of people dont actually want the bots banned they farm the gold that they buy
Perma ban bots in waves, temp ban everyone who has touched illegally obtained gold within two degrees of separation from the source account. You can ID bots with machine learning (it's called classification) & you can easily ID who the gold has been traded to using a search algorithm. The whole thing can be automated; when players may actually loose their access to the game, they'll stop engaging in risky behaviour. Problem is Blizzard would likely loose subscriptions, so what is their incentive for doing so?
>buy mats from tradechat directly from botting goldseller
>youre banned
solid solution you got there bud.
@@BrentMalice It's not exactly difficult to add a little logic to avoid those kind of cases from appearing in the search space. This is an easily solvable problem for Blizzard, they're simply choosing not to address it.
@@DilworthJonathon
>make 10 bots
>they trade 4 times
wheres ur god now.
anyone who supports GDKP hates video games
Anyone who doesn't support GDKP hates video games.
@@ForOne814 Supporting a p2w system made by players is hating video games? The players definitely ruin the game harder than Blizzard could
@@helzing5114 yes. You hate player interactions. Also, how's GDKP pay to win? It's pay to get the loot you want from a boss you've killed instead of randomly rolling for it. Reward by merit is obviously out of the picture for pugs. It's a much better alternative to blind luck. Everyone wins. You either get the loot or the money.
@@ForOne814 How am I hating playing interations lol? GDKP is purely pay to win lmfaooooo youre literally paying for gear with ingame gold(that most of it is botted) yeah for sure bro I didnt get the memo paying 50k for a pixel that will be useful to you 4-5months max until next tier is definitely normal
@@helzing5114 GDKP is purely player-created and player-driven.
You're paying for gear instead of rolling for it. In order to pay for it, you need to get it to drop first. For that, you need to kill the boss. If you can't kill the boss, you're bad at the game and you get kicked out of the raid. GDKPs aren't carries, you aren't paying to get carried, you're paying to get the items.
$50k is a lot, unless you make that in a couple of hours. Those things are relative.
Nothing will change people are stuck at the maze
Gdkps should never be banned, they are the best way to distribute loot, plus its not like you have to run gdkps if you don’t want to. GDKPs make the raids worth it even if you don’t win any items
I think the problem is they allow open recruitment having whales come in who buy gold.
Only if they distribute portion of the gold back to raid when they finish, and they dont invite pugs and are kept as guild runs. Then they can work, otherwise with pugs its just stupid.
theres no gdkp on retail but people still swipe for raid carries
Just ban such services. You can easily see who are the people that are selling these, heck they even have public discords where they advertise.
no
@@thareus20 Why? Services like these exist in all mmos. Its just players interacting with eachother.
@@kruger7796 it ruins the game. If the game is ruined, then you can't sell these services either. Therefore, the services can be seen as a parasitical element of the game, that latches onto the game, bleeds it of players, and eventually dies when the game dies.
@@thareus20 First of all, thats just your opinion man. A huge portion of people dont care about this at all. Anyway, are you really suggesting that players should not be able to help eachother for gold in an mmo game? It checks every box of what games like these are supposed to be. A living world. Hiring mercs to help you out is nothing new.
They could remove the loot options. Everything is need/greed but you can also need/greed stuff based on your roll which you select when enterring the dungeon. Also revert BOP items being tradable.
Let's just stop kidding ourselves here. It's greed and gold buying that's the problem, not GDKP.
Personal loot unless someone is on your guild for at least x weeks.
Doesn't solve the issue, but remedies it.
I wish gdkp was banned. I've been saying this since the start. I only leveled to 60 for good memories.
GDKP is banned in Turtle WoW. We still get nonstop gold spammers.
If Blizz refuses to hire GM's to oversee gold buying, they could just make gold not tradeable in raids and items become soulbound upon hearth. It'll prompt you with a warning before hearthing to remind people that they do have tradeable items in their bag.
that would just encourage paying upfront, outside of the raid. Similar to boost runs in retail wow
@@assboi Why not just use personal loot in raids with nothing tradeable...Do guilds really need Masterloot and lootcouncils to clear content? nope. People just like that so they can ninja items for themselves easier. they need to just make everything personal loot in raids and add more loot drops from each boss. It's a simple fix and it's much better than the alternative of GDKP runs and also ninja looting guilds/players.
@@dmasiodnmiod well now you're just ruining content for a lot of people just to try to thwart bad actors. That's also not a solution.
Or, or, Blizzard doesn't see a problem with that whole thing going on, and neither do most people.
@@ForOne814 I do get that playing GDKPs 20 hours a day is tied to your rent, and it might not be an issue for you, but for people who takes the game as a hobby and not work, it does hurt the game.
Believe it or not but the huge influx of non english speakers are because of GDKPs
i think the basic problem is people are using real life cash to buy in game gold. illegally , now legally. its pay to win. its a game.
its very hard to prevent.
if people won't be honest, by not using real life money to buy in game items. i don't know how it will ever change.
Blizzard nerfed paladin dungeon boosting because they said it promoted gold buying. Once they figure out a way to stop people from spending 100K+ on a single piece of ulduar HM gear... they will do something about.. The return of non-tradable personal loot ;)
Players ruined the game.
The game is fine. Gdkp is fine. Stop being a snowflake
AH only and no more trading. If you post an item it must be within the AH limit for the price. IE. no grey items for 7000g.
Nobody is going to do GDKP runs if Blizzard is even half serious about banning them. The risk of being perma-banned and losing all of your progress would be too high. All Blizzard has to do is to make a couple of examples.
They need to ban both the seller AND the buyer of Gold. And they need to ban credit card numbers associated with specific accounts, not just character names.
The Bots can be dealt with in part by limiting how many characters of a class can be in a group. If you can't have half the team in a BG being DKs but instead limit teams to 1 DK per 5 character slots on a side there would be a reduction in bots.
Limit the amount of gold that can be received from a single account to another account as a tool against GDKPs. If only 1000 gold can be transferred per day it will take way too long to do the big payouts of GDKPs.
Finally they NEED someone to monitor the in-game email. We report spam and gold sellers and boost sellers and GDKP invites time and time again and they mostly are ignored by bliz or take 3-6 months of complaints before being acted on. Here is where they need a person to monitor the in-game mail for reports.
Issue is not gdkp its the bots farming millions of gold into the game every hour, loot systems like sr etc work for some ppl but if u want to farm gold (legimate way) and buy items i dont see anything wrong with that. Beeing able to buy 20k gold for idk 10-20euros? thats crazy
Imagine playing Blizzard servers in 2023
private servers arent much better, id rather pay 15 $ a month a have a stable and healthy population than jumping on a server that will die when the next fresh comes up, just look at tauri ive spent 4 years there and now its dead, barely enough people to make raids or even lfr ques
@@Zizaa95 but tauri has had their evermoon server for years, and it only died not too long ago because of Mistblade. Same exact thing happens on live servers with mass transfers from realm to realm. I know people that are stuck on shitty realms because they dont want to pay real money for a transfer. The fresh hopping is really annoying though I'll give you that
This is simply the death of a game that's been around for 2 decades. Let it die and move on. Better for everyone. If y'all don't play, they either have to fix it to make money or have it die so they don't have to worry about maintenance costs. It's golden days are long gone you guys just have to get over your addictions.
The only way is to remove all economy from the game. No trading, no auctions, no rolling on loot. This wouldn't work though because it would be really stupid.
were gdkp's a big thing in original wrath? i dont remember them being that big, though i spent most of wrath on a small server, the botting was really bad though.
they were not a big of a thing back then, but there some people that used to it. so in a way to say. yes, GDKP was a think, but it was not of a hot topic.
@@luckiness9500 There was also less botted gold in the economy at the time so its effects would be further diminished compared to wotlk classic.
Reset, hire many gm’s , ban all gold buyers and sellers. But that would actually cost blizzard probably alot of Money
To me gdkp ruined classic
I talked to this guy that said he was a former blizz employee while I was playing the game. I complained about the dungeon boosting problems too and that I think there is an opportunity for a better solution. He said the reason blizz doesn't do anything to the dungeon boosting is because it is a community made thing. MC pet bombing, ZG blood plague, kiting kazzak, and many more were all community made and yet blizz stepped in to fix them. I think it was a lazy excuse of an answer because it is obvious to just about anyone that GDKP and dungeon boosting has gotten way out of hand. Here is how you might be able to fix GDKP. Make an option when loot is up for roll to there it can be "guild bound" instead of bind on pickup. Once it's decided to be bound to the guild, the loot goes to the guild bank (yes I know, we'd need guild banks in classic for this to work). Then you add a feature where a guild officer can let any player in the guild borrow said piece for a certain amount of time. Once that time is up the loot automatically goes back to the guild. This would dramatically incentivize people to stay in their guild and possibly make mega guilds on a server so they can pool gear. This also makes it so loot doesn't get lost to one player, but more so to a guild.
id say make it so anyone thats eligible to be traded raid gear currently in your bag you are not allowed to trade currency with them
they might as well just sell gear in a blizz store, but the richest people in wow don't buy gold, they run gdkp's. buying gold has grown in part because of min/maxers driving up prices on the AH, high player number servers made traditional farming impossible, the only option left was buying gold. the last gdkp I went to was in vanilla, and when I have a few thousand to bid and one guy has gold cap - it's not even worth it
I have never done a GDKP run but if players want to spend money this way, who cares? You need to ban bots and gold selling. For on thing, this is way more feasible, as blizzard used to do this in the past.
GDKP are fine, many people prefer it. No reason to ban it, just avoid those runs. People need to stop crying about GDKP that many people like. Options are good.
In guilds dkp it's a scam to stack dkps from 10hc runs giving real life or not friends a disgusting advantage when they jump into 25hc runs. The roll system it's just ridiculous for guilds, it has no logic using it, it's a pugs loot system only. Loot council premise is quite interesting, if the guild is filled with good people like really adult people not cancerous jerks and ninjas, but if not unfortunately it gets extremely corrupted after a while. The only good loot system for guilds this game has is EPGP. It's simply the best because it's one automatic table of priorities of the guild's members, fully managed by the addon. Gdkp is simply horrifying I don't even know what to call to this gaming company from Hell. Blizzard is just a shit show of illegal stuff and corruption.
We run epgp and it's good but has plenty of problems still. Such as people not taking upgrades due to the cost. Personally I think a monopoly money gdkp would be the best for guilds. Give everyone 1k "points" when they join and let everyone spend what they want. Gdkp is incredibly fair in a vacuum.
You don't need to make it impossible for people to stop it, you just need to inconvenient enough to discourage people to do it. Just Dont let people trade gold in raid, do it soulbound and untradable loot. Most of my friends left the game because of the pay to win issue. Only people with no selfrespect plays a pay to win game
Those solutions can be easily mitigated by just trading gold before the raid
@@assboi can not trade soulbound items
@Mahmut Gediz Cankaya masterloot item, runs would take longer as you'd have to bid after after boss. So making items not tradeable doesn't solve it either.
@@thatasianmike90 they solved this issea at retail with removing master loot. Remove it , it is not necessarily for the game. Guild council can decide who will choose to need the items and who will pass. All loot is soulbound
@@mahmutgedizcankaya6820 no, but you could sell Full Clear Runs, so your garantee'd a chance at personalized loot. GDKP runs will become FCR's, with a "Buy In" to join the raid.
GDKP discords rely heavily on being open to the wide playerbase so they wouldn't really be able to thrive underground. I'm not saying Blizzard should have employees dedicated to infiltrating these servers to ban organizers, but I think it would be effective if they did.
One quick fix that would certainly piss a lot of people off is just lowering the gold cap. Lower it to 20k and GDKPs would become more trouble than they're worth.
Goldselling and buying is the real problem so harsher penalties and more banwaves etc is the way to go
yeah blizzard will never handle this right. it's a dang shame. private servers have a LOT of problems too. its really sad that, as good as wow is, there is almost no way to get a real/pure version of wow. people complain about Pay 2 Win ... but when you actually put it in front of them, in a game like wow, they just spend away like crazy. I'm only killing time here until starfield comes out. dipping my toe in for the last month to kill time has really put me off forever. very sad how greed and laziness (both from blizzard and players) has ruined such a great game.
i really see absolutely no reason why people play blizzard WoW.
private servers are nearly flawless now. and have custom content, etc etc. nicer communities (despite exceptions). For every rare "omg private servers are PTW!!" there are 5 solid reasons that Blizz WoW is PTW for real. ,,|,, Blizzard.. i seriously have zero compulsion to ever play there again. They dont care about Lore, they dont care about players, they dont care about the integrity of their own game. Blizz just sits confident that there are enough cattle out there that will ignore the cancers of their crap product.
Permanent characters
@@Taintedshadez huh? oh you mean Nostalrius? the ONE server that got shut down? I've been playing the same account on a private server for the past 6 years. It's not going anywhere and thats 6 blissful years without bot armies and other Blizz bullshit.
I just transfer from Eranukus to Faerlina, we didnt have gdkp on Eranikus, and GearScore mean something, now, all are gearscore boosted, and no one knows how to play the game, its so sad to be in a pug with all 5.2Gs for 3 hours on TOGC H, that never happend on the oger server.
Pay 2 win sucks.
At this point, it's too late. There's only ~2 tiers left before end of the Classic WOTLK when they should've banned people buying gold back in mid Classic Vanilla. Even they only ban 5% of palyers that do it, that would scare off 90% of players who do it.
It's the old bots=subs thing so they won't address it. but if they cared idk maybe 2-3 employees to hang out in high traffic areas and just stomp them out. it's only temporary because AI is getting soo good but the basic programs they let people use let anyone with an internet connection tap into this. Ultimately some kind of algorithm but for this to even be a consideration for blizzard aka something they will begin work on now that people are angry there would have to be mass outrage and a mass exodus from the game. But in reality people don't make enough of a stink about it for blizzard to care most people either busy or part of the problem
To be honest. I run gdkps all the time now and sometimes you can pick up some items for real cheap.
Blizz priority is having lots of players and not the quality of the experience.
Easy when the item drops it is only able to be traded for a certain time. Also i include for the same amount of time that people within the same raid ID can not trade Gold. Done.
Better yet you could just lock trading Gold to people within the same raid ID. Any gold that needs to be traded for Raid purposes has to be done before the raid begins.
GDKP is something that I hated when I still played Blizzard WoW, ALL pug raids were GDKP, can't dedicate to guild runs. It's not the only reason I left Classic but it definitely contributed.
if u dont join a Gdkp this doesnt affect you
Let people play how they want. Gold buying services and bots are actually hurting the game, not GKDPs themselves.
Ban people for using a virtual currency? like dkp? a system that has worked fine for decades?
Just ban trading gold inside raids. If huge amounts are traded before or after raids, ban.
no
Honestly I don't know why anyone would bother to play classic era over retail atm, the nostalgia isn't there and we already know how to beat everything in it, it's just a matter of buying the gear at this point and quitting out of disgust when you realize you actually payed for a game and then payed to not play it.
the system works better with the gdkp's but i make enough gold without swiping a card to run gdkp's every week.
As someone who doesn't buy gold, I actually really like GDKP runs because it's a "fair" loot system for a pug, and its one of the only ways I can make gold without a network of bots lol. But yes, it does break the game for people that can just buy gold
Do they though? GDKPS, bots, and gold buying have been happening since WoW's inception. I was watching a mage PvP video from 2005 (Asian server) and I saw on a guild message in Chinese that read: MC GDKP - bring 3000+ gold. Nothing in WoW is new just happening in a different way/larger scale. I don't see the problem with earning gold organically and buying items in game with gold. After this many reiterations of the game, GDKPs are the least of our worries. It's reminds me of removing world buffs in SOM, despite the fact that plenty of players actually enjoy getting world buffs and doing as much damage as possible (as seen in Era now). I don't see why everyone shouldn't be able to play the game as they want. Botting, however, is a completely separate issue that absolutely needs to actually be handled.
this is the key, ofcourse gold buying existed for a really long time, but also hardcore raiding and minmaxing existed for a long time, but it was the 1% of the playerbase who did those things, meanwhile now it is over 50% doing it. It boils down to something so simple : Should blizzard give people what they want, or what they think the game should be? Because what playerbase CLEARLY wants, is GDKP, skipping content with buying gold, achieving rewards in game without actually playing the game, doing it just by swiping. That IS what people want. It was not 15 years ago, 15 years ago gold buying was something considered really dirty, ugly, dishonest, you werent a real player, you were a cheater to do so. Now it is "normal" and even held up as positive, as in "that is what clever players do".
well, if blizzard wants to fix everything, from botting to gdkp, it is very simple, limit the amount of gold per char, and the number of transactions per month, this would solve it all. but blizzard doesn't want to fix the game for us, they are making money from all what we are upset with, so that is why, i just quit, and went chilling on private servers, and thank you for the great content you create
If GDKPs were banned and Blizz made logging impossible, classic would be about 8500x better.
Also ban weakauras and only allow basic UI quality of life addons, no ez mode boss mods, etc.
i couldn’t agree more. i play on a pve semi low pop server and i like it because gdkps aren’t very popular. i think they are worse for the game than bots personally.
I recommend you play classic era servers along side wotlk classic... i see a lot of boosting, but currently ( on Firemaw EU -Horde) i dont see any calls really for GDKPs. And all together the community is really relaxed and nice = )
Lots of gdkp posts on whitemane cluster lately 🥴
Before Blizz would do any of that they will use the excuse and bring back the token or straight a way to buy gear for real money.
And i can see why they would do that. If so many people do it with just extra steps, why shouldnt it be Blizz who gets the cash and not some chinese gold farmer?
gdkps dont need to be banned, gold buying does. Next topic.
that is like saying Airplanes doesnt need to be banned, jetfuel needs to be banned.
Yeeee, I'd prefer they ban bots and gold buyers.
you forgot the loot system from retail were every one gets there personal loot. and the remove from master looter
Ok, so the real issue is that bots are not detected or banned properly. Lets just rant about gdkps instead.
I don't know..the closest thing to "fixing" the problem would to be seasoned servers (lets say 1-2 for each era, so vanilla, tbc, wotlk and in the future cata when it comes out) but be VERY accelerated. Like hell, over in half a year maybe, even faster? It wouldn't fix the core problem, but at least it gives the bots a limited time to farm massive amount of gold. But even more important, people who buy gold would maybe think twice, knowing their character is going to get deleted in 3-6 months. That would be like throwing money off a cliff or whatever. Sure, oilers wouldn't mind, but I'm sure some would. And with limited time, maybe the gold prices would also increase, driving away even more people.
But definitely not a 100% core fix, but at least a bandaid of some sorts. Or assume that a server and its community can have a "no DKPs on this server" kind of attitude. But that would be prolly impossible. Like im thinking everyone reports people who attend or ask for gdkps in chats. They get on a blacklist for group runs etcetc.
even if they put them out nobody would play them
its funny that classic era servers are populated because of hardmode but that really translate to players prefer single player games
bruh barely anyone would play at all if they knew their character would be deleted in 3-6 months what a lobotomized take.
@@crowmaster9652 the pvp cluster is popping and there is plenty of regular play going on
@@s0lid_sno0ks That is not true. But thanks for your wrong take, much appreciated :)
I farmed 270k gold in the auction house before phase 2 in hopes I’d buy some gear from uld. But I havnt even logged in since phase 2 started. Lol
Easy. Make all loot personal loot and nothing tradable in raids. problem solved.
People will then just sell Full Clear Runs, so you have a chance at your loot.
@@chrisbeach1566 Ban boosting as well? Make boosting for gold bannable for the player and the boosters. Let the mages find another way to make gold. it's ridiculous anyway. Blizzard only allow that in retail because they sell the gold xD boosting ruins the game, what's the point in even playing the game if you just want to sit afk and get loot giving to you for irl money. which then you can do nothing with but sit in Orgrimmar and feel like you're a chad but in reality you're a complete braindead bot with 0 idea how to play lol. it's stupid. boosting should not be allowed, period.
so then mages cant give people food/water?
@@s0lid_sno0ks Obviously conjured items can still be traded... XD I'm talking about the boss drops, the raid loot.
Get rid of master loot and cap gold limits on wallet to 5-10000g.
Banning GDKPs is completely asinine. GDKP is quite possibly the best loot system as it encourages people to go for the items they want most and discourages people from going for items that aren't very important to them. It also encourages people who already have everything they need from a raid to still continue doing the raid.
Don't ban GDKP. That's just stupid. What they need to do is start banning gold buyers.
Hmm... i think i know what Alex would say about GDKP.... NO ACTUALLY I DONT. THAT GUY CHANGES HIS OPINION MORE THAN LITERALLY ANYONE.
Well on private servers there aren't many gdkp runs since players can donate for gear directly... that's even worse. But what private server do so much better than blizz is bot control. No bots=no gold bloating and therefore no gdkp since majority won't be able to afford it. Does this mean that blizz can't conroll bots? No, they could do it better than anyone but they just don't want to because bots are in thousands and they pay for all those subs ...
Take Warmane Lordaeron -> no donations allowed + no shop, and yet for 7, years there is no GDKPs or gold sellers.
It's just moderation dude, stop making excuses for a billion dollar company. Blizz could solve it yesterday if they wanted to.
@@thareus20 Exuse? I was making an accusation, wtf.. I said that they could stop it if they wanted to, which they dont because they are greedy. You didnt understand me correctly...
the games so broken and they dont give a damn. gdkp runs only started because people were basically allowed to buy gold in classic vanilla.
Season of discovery banned GDKP's as you suggested. Season of Discovery is now a fraction of its former player base and merging servers... Banning some player choices without banning other player choices always fails. i.e. Blizzard banned the loot distribution system of gdkp's. Blizzard has not banned the dps logs/parses. by banning player choice in loot distribution but not banning player choice in whom to bring to the raids, blizzard created a whole slew of new problems... enjoy your fractioned player base and all it's consequences of no pugs to fill gaps, extremely long battleground queues, no one to run old dungeons with your alts etc...
I’m sick of logging in seeing gdkp that all I ever see for raids
You're a legend for making this video
I hope they do start banning them cause it would mean people would just start over pricing everything from Briarthorn to Copper Bars to Netherweave. Seems majority of people who complain about GDKPs don't know how economy's work. People would just start buying low priced items and flipping them for insane prices.
I honestly don't care about GDKPs cause 1- they've been in the game since vanilla, yes in vanilla they had carries but it was rare since gold was not as abundant as it is now (on Deathwing a guild called pretty pink pwnies constantly did it once they had content on farm). 2. Its better than half of the loot that most groups do anyways, Loot Council is a drama/guild destroyer, rolling is somewhat the only way you can win something but pugs aren't gonna waste the time on that system and lastly if you use something like DKP (dragon kill points) its just a currency that only has a value of you showing up meaning the person who puts little to no effort and the person who's last on damage but shows up every night can easily win that Tiny Abomination in a Jar trinket.
The only down side of GDKP's is if you get some troll who fubars your cut, other than that it's easier than doing your taxes. "but but it destroys the game", no it doesn't if anything it makes people run more pugs instead of just guild runs. Not everyone can dedicate a raid schedule anymore cause most of us have jobs, families and responsibilities and I know people are gonna say "I have a wife, I work 90 hours a week and have 9 kids and I can make a raid schedule" which I'm sure you do like how my wife is actually Scarlett Johansson.
Hire employees that are willing to work as GM's in game like they used to. GM's would only be there to moderate the game (not give out items like they use to). GDKP's should be part of the game people who actually spent time farming or playing the AH should be able to spend gold how they want. Banning a system, the player base came up with is dumb. Also they don't allow others to really farm or boost anymore (still some goes on), but its less prevalent. People make there gold how they want and play the game how they want. I think that blizzard should play its game and realize, that there are issues but doing everything AI based isn't getting it done. Pay some people to be GM's in your company....
This isn't the best solution either but don't allow gold to be traded in a raid instance seems like the best option. Yes some runs easily go under 2 hours. But lots take more then that. Players of course would work around that but imo I think that would heavily slow down GDKP runs if you had to leave the instance everytime to do the loot before the next boss so you don't risk going past the 2 hour trade limit.
Banning a player run social interaction? A system that can easily be run completely outside the game. Never going to happen. Even if it could be done I dont think it should be done. Banning player interaction like this is never a good thing. The playerbase has spoken, they like GDKPs otherwise they wouldnt do them. Better to actually deal with the problem of botting for real instead. At least that is somewhat realistic.