@@MarioMartinazzi I guess that does make some sense, cheaters will find other cheaters easily because they can look at their opponents absurd top moves. GMs can do it just through knowledge of the game.
It's not about the title or elo, usually engines make weird moves thats hard for a human to see (stockfish being the top leader of making weird moves), they are prophylaxis moves that prevent weakness since they calculate way further than humans, what matters is centipawn lost, accuracy means nothing, Chess is plagued with cheating even some GMs have used engines during critical lines and then win.
Or when he says something like "if the pawn pushes, we will take with our pawn" and then once it actually happens asks if he should take with the queen or pawn lol
I mean you heard him confess that he had gotten out of his theoretical knowledge around move seven or eight. He has a vague remembrance at times Think about it clearly thought. We watched a 1270 force a draw against a high level GM in the most theoretically known chess opening in human history, and it was all behind a single backwards pawn. Not a single player below 2600 would have found the defensive resource of walking the king over to help defend the backwards pawn after castling. All that and he barely held it. I believe that's why he went for the drawish endgame and offered a draw. A normal 1270 would never have taken a draw after investing that long. Engine cheaters look to get in and get out, they don't want to play 40 move marathon games that devolve into long endgames. But think about that. A 1270 crushed a GM behind a plan centered around ONE BACKWARDS PAWN at 1270 I didn't CONSCIOUSLY know backward pawns we were even targets until I was attacking them with my rook in the endgame.
Like Dani says, him calling someone suspicious is not in any way accusing anyone of cheating. Any actions taken by his viewers thereafter are just degenerate idiocy, which he denies advocating for in any way.
Despite the cheating. It’s a bit of a guilty pleasure when these videos come about. While we usually get Danya’s responses to natural movements, the engine sort of forced a Grandmaster level short instructional video at what should be a 1300 game. I always love a peek into the mind of GMs playing chess and to see their responses to literally perfect moves is always so instructive. Thanks Daniel for the excellent content as always.
Lot of respect for holding back on the cheating accusation. As a GM with so much experience, the warning sirens must have been absolutely blasting. But instead, he didn't want to insult his opponent's character. And even when he starts to believe the opponent is cheating, he did everything he could to make this game a great learning experience.
It's a great learning experience for sure, I don't mind these vs cheater games at all, in fact they're one of my favorites. However, the cheating was super obvious, Danya playing around as if some 1300 will find these moves(or know the theory) and with such quickness is quite ridiculous.
this is why i love and respect danya's content. He's instructive, explains the moves chat says (which i also see) and explain why they could be played but not the best, and he is always considerate when he faces a cheater, he doesnt accuse them he keeps his opinion to himself until he can prove it. Much respect
27:04 "I will try to win the endgame, because maybe he will, let's put it this way, put his guard down a little bit" Oh boy, that was subtle and classy
Nothing gives me more pleasure than watching this video 4 months after its release then checking Kingslayer's account and seeing "Closed: Fair Play". Feels good man.
The best way to watch these videos is to pause after every move the opponent makes, figure out what I would do and why, and then listen to what Daniel would do so that I can see if I missed anything important.
@@louisgrossmann-wirth9049 it means you're here for entertainment, not to learn. 3/4 of the stuff he showed in this video will leave your head by the next day. You'll be lucky if you remember ever watching this video a week later.
@@barbaraGobert31 That's a good way to put it. There are plenty of highly skilled chess teachers out there who know all the best moves, but Danya specifically knows which of the worst moves bad players are likely to make.
I was so proud of finding the b3 - a4 - Ba3 setup as a secondary idea, then became even happier, when he played it. Turns out, it's one of the few inaccuracies in the game.
@@derekmiller6422 Nope, it's sort of a common name in Hungary. How ironic, both my b3 line and the love directed towards me were misguided. This day keeps giving :D
its an inaccuracy for the computer sure but at least the plan for normal human beings is good or at least looks extremely appealing,i didnt consider b3 Ba3 at all,i was only looking at a4
I think this was findable, and most of the stuff Danya talked about was findable at 1600 level, but suspicious at 1200. However, Kh2 was very suspicious, because why would that even be on one's radar?
bb4 as prophylaxis for ra8 is typical GM/engine stuff. And the way he got a serious advantage of the opening against a GM in what Danya thought was typical Ruy Lopez theory is a clear sign. This guy is a typical smart cheater, wouldn't have got caught if he didn't play a GM
Absolutely. It's these insidious ones that really ruin the online game. They use the engine 'SELECTIVELY' as Danya perfectly puts it in order to try and avoid detection. Vile, sad, manipulative people.
Red flags for me was the pawn tension lasting so long in a couple different instances in this game. Players in that rating level don't usually let two pawns sit like that for more than a move. Bishop to B4 was weird to me. It doesn't seem to do anything obvious and something like a rook lift to put more pressure on the pawn at D6 on the next move with the other rook... makes way more sense for that rating level.
@@Mantose262 😁Sounds about right. I'm Low Elo Jones over here, and central pawn tension can be very frustrating when you're unsure when, or how to resolve it and open the position safely. I've played against other Low Elo's with seemingly perfect positional play in the opening, but if they're human and under 1300, it gets wonky rather fast.
To be fair, Im 1200ish and I know several lines in the Ruy Lopez. Some of those lines are 8 book moves deep. Sure hope I never get banned for using my main opening because of my rating 🤦♂️
It really is pathetic that people feel the need to cheat. I will never understand the mentality. Major props to Danya for his patience and still makes such brilliant teaching insights.
I understand why _kids_ cheat online, and I might understand why some adults cheat in random match-ups like this. They weren't expecting A GM in sheep's clothing. What I _don't_ understand are the cheaters who intentionally sign up to be part of streaming videos with Hikaru and other well known GM's. Very few people get a chance to play a fun game of chess with a Grandmaster... and these people just throw away the experience. 🤷♂️
@@yzfool6639 If they want to win, then why play a GM, playing a GM is a good learning opportunity, not a good winning opportunity. The point snickle is making is that these cheaters are wasting the chance for someone who genuinely wants to learn to play, just so that they can get caught cheating.
@@yzfool6639 For cheaters, the thrill is in the act of pulling a fast one on their fellow man and the attempt to get away with it, regardless of the outcome. With adults, who knows...I think It's like the sad cousin of the endorphin rush you'd typically get from legitimate success in life. Just pathetic all around.
Looks so easy to play chess when Dayna explains all of these things, but when we were playing, looks like we just throw out the piece on the board without to thought about the next move.
Imagine being a random Spanish priest 500 years ago playing chess and now the best players in the world say your name on a daily basis. Edit: I have been informed that he in fact wasn’t a random guy but instead a really strong player who wrote books on chess theory. Even still, the point stands - it’s pretty crazy that your idea from 500 years ago is being used by the top players (assisted by computers too no less)
@@ludomirsteinbruck9376 He's from 500 years ago. Master might be a generous term for him. He was an early innovator, but I really doubt many of the players from that time are >2000 FIDE strength.
@@descendency Strength is subjective, just 'cause DaVinci couldn't build his design for a helicopter doesn't mean he wasn't brilliant, the means at his disposal were entirely different to a modern inventor. Without the aide of engine analysis, readily available printed books & magazines or plentiful tournaments to attend, it's a good bet Magnus wouldn't be 2000 either.
I appreciate your attitude towards chat's propensity to accuse players of cheating far too often/early. You take a very respectable "calm down, let's wait and see" approach which I find refreshing and laudable
GM Danya talking through the thinking process, reacting to the live comments, and later showing how he determines whether to report someone or not - another excellent video!🙏
The moves that made me most suspicious were the king moves. 1200s generally don't move their kings unless there's a clear objective or threat. They rarely move them for unclear "positional" play in the middle game.
Two things strike me about this: - Daniel held his own against an engine, which while not necessarily a surprise, it is really impressive to behold. - This was one of the most compelling and comprehensive analyses that I have seen, and for Daniel, that is saying a lot, because he is the best teacher I have encountered on youtube, though that isn't to say there aren't others. I was drawn to this because of the title (I don't have time to watch every Danya video) to see how he would respond to the cheater, but the learning value was incredible.
Daniel held his own because this guy was mixing his own dumb moves in to avoid detection, and he also wasnt taking the #1 engine move everytime. GM's cant hold their own against engines. Not even with pawn odds.
Wow, this movie had everything! The nemesis was a little predictable but ever so often slipped into uncharted territory. The hero was brilliant as always. Overall, I'd give it a 9 out 10.
Danya's professionalism is unmatched. I have so much respect for him for keeping his cool and giving the benefit of the doubt to the opponent, especially in this case when his reputation was on the line with new viewers coming from Charlie's stream. On top of that, he draws the game against a cheater attesting to his chess proficiency. What a gem we have.
Hey Daniel. Just wanted to say - really appreciate your chess videos. The narration is perfect with your explanations and reasonings of your move decisions and potential opponent move decisions. Everything makes sense and is logical. You're a natural teacher. Thanks
Class act Danya comes through again. This is how we should act in everyday life. If we have our suspicions then we should take the time to investigate and gather evidence and only then make a claim about somebody. The internet is a breeding ground for people who will make accusations that are empty. They will make sensationalist videos and posts that will try to influence us. Daniel, thank you for educating us on how to be better people as well as better chess players
hes def a class act but lets all be honest drawing against a 2600 + gm when ur 1200 is evidence enough ur cheating. mathematically speaking you have zero chance of winning and maybe in theory 1 in 10000000 chance of drawing but pracitically u will always lose
Positive: you get a ton more views for every one of these games... and as well, I enjoy how you play against the computer, explaining your strategy and your anticipation of what your opponent's ideas are. Great video
a new level of admiration for Daniel who kept giving the benefit of the doubt to not accuse of cheating i myself am pretty new to chess but have been studying the ruy lopez in great detail so i had all the same moves up to half way. it could also be another GM with a new account or doing there own rating climb .. yes i totally agree with Daniel there is some what evidence that leads to specualtion of cheating yet he manages to not act like other childish youtube streamers who carry on all salty and berate their opponents its not like something is on the line as he mentioned very kind and professional is Daniel Naroditsky and i myself am very pleased and lucky to get content like this. Thanking you much!
@@TheMrInfantaria Whatever the term, point is DN is a high level GM especially on fast time formats which is basically what he is doing. On the fly he is teaching, talking and sometimes laughing it up as he plays. You have to have very quick calculation ability for that.
He should rename this video to "The Ruy Lopez - an in depth analysis by GM Danya". I love how Danya simply plays against the board and casually draws against the engine while giving his opponent the benefit of the doubt because he thinks most of the moves are easily findable. No drama here, just some great chess.
Danya, unimaginable respect for the way you approached the topic of playing against a (suspected cheater). Way to keep a calm head and advocate that your only duty is to report. As always, very instructive content. Thank you for the upload.
tbh, these cheating videos are really instructive, i'm 2200 rated on lichess and i can't really learn much from your videos since your opponents make obvious blunders, but against engine i can see you struggle and try to DEFEND, it's really nice i wish you would have played a rapid once a month! against stockfish and explain your thought process during the game
A very instructional video. And I think Daniel handled the possibility of cheating very tactfully and in good spirit. That attitude by itself is something to learn from.
This is really very unfortunate that so many players are cheating these days.... Few months ago I also faced a cheater... I am glad that for a long time I was able to found some best/good defensive moves... But at the end of the day.. I am a human being.. and not as strong as Danya... Ultimately he checkmated me...
I don't think cheating is as pervasive as people think it is. In around 1800 rapid games, I have gotten my rating points refunded only 3 times. It is sad that it occurs at all but I wouldn't make such a big deal out of it. Maybe it's more pervasive at higher ratings but at my level of 1500-1600 it is not.
When I was younger, I cheated with online chess and I felt extremely terrible. I didn’t feel good at all and immediately stopped. I can’t see how these guys continuously do that and feel good about themselves. And being someone who cheated, you don’t always play the top engine moves because the assumption is that you’ll be caught for cheating if you do, and the obvious goal is to not get caught.
I'm a 1500+ player, I'll never find these moves what he played.. Unless he is also a GM and recording stuffs for his own speedrun content.. That will be epic though..
Totally agree with you, very good point, we are basically the same rating and i play the Ruy Lopez as White. I know a lot of theory in the Ruy but most of this guy's moves in the middle and endgame were definetely out of my class. Way out of my class😆
@@JM-tj5qm This was the case for the, to date, four people I have received point refunds from. I remember each and had a close look at their histories before I put in the report. It was never 100% win streak stuff. Just perfect games mixed in with the usual I would expect for their rating. One guy had a whole profile listing membership in a chess club, extensive friends list and the whole bit. He got the hammer.
While cheating is despicable and the situation should not have happened, I do enjoy these games against cheaters. I can pretend that Danya is instead playing against a fellow GM, while sharing his thoughts and ideas carefully and patiently for amateurs (like me) to follow. Thank you for the streams and the videos Danya! I learned a lot from them while having a great time.
Having someone Danya played so strong was great how Danya explained how to play positional chess in the middlegame. I want Danya to analyze more high level games against GMs to show more of this incredibly accurate and positional play.
Absolutely. The thing to remember about online games is that there are a lot of children online and they don't understand that about themselves. For some of them, it's about simple domination through whatever means. And then there are also a lot of adults out there who have never emotionally matured and are still stuck at that level.
When I was younger I cheated with online chess and it felt extremely terrible. I didn’t feel good at all and immediately stopped. I can’t see how these guys continuously do that and feel good about themselves. And being a cheater myself, you don’t always play the top moves the engine gives you because the assumption is that you’ll be caught for cheating if you do and the obvious goal is to not get caught.
Qb3 is not uncommon or hard to find. It’s a very common tactic when the black bishop moves away from the defense of the b7 pawn. I’m 800 and play that move all the time. Levy and Rosen mention that move in several opening videos and traps beginners should watch out for. C4 was ridiculous though as well as the king waiting moves and Bb4.
Twitch chat represents a huge group of people. Huge groups of people are collectively re t a rded if there is no hierarchy and no rules to follow. So twitch chat throwing stupid accusations shouldn't surprise you
Thanks for this video, very interesting game and much pleasure to watch. I have learned a lot. But most of all, thanks for the teaching of how being a human, and to give the other player the doubt of not cheating, during the game. It was the real lesson for me
if a true 1200-1300 lasts until the endgame without blundering against Danya, then they're cheating lol. And on top of that the 1270 player caused Danya to have a worse position most of the game. I think Danya publicly takes this position not to accuse people of cheating because it's poor sportsmanship, but Danya and the rest of us all knew internally rather quickly that the guy was cheating lolol
No he doesnt accuse ppl because its not as hard as u guys think to just play a solid game. If u understand Danya knows way more about the game of chess than we all do u have to also understand he has a much better sense when ppl are cheating as well. He checked with th engine that gives him a better idea but u guys r idiots if u think he was cheating at the start of the game because it's impossible to know that the way he played.
@@maxrusty3596 Yeah in a ruy lopez I could navigate the first 10 moves just fine, unless white plays really obscure variation of it. It's the most played opening for a reason.
@max rusty I said I knew the guy was cheating because he played a game without blundering, not because of his opening play. For a true 1270 player playing against a GM this is not going to happen, because GMs are making too frequent good moves and their understanding of the position at almost every stage of the game will cause the lower rated player to lose the thread at some point, meaning they've lost an understanding of the core issues and objectives in the position. And you can see hundreds of games at this point where Danya does this to players at every rating range, i.e, dismantling their position due to superior understanding and experience. So how does this one 1270 manage to avoid the fate that every other honest 1270 player has suffered...cheat! And I'm putting emphasis on TRUE 1270. Not 1270 on the account who is actually 1800 or 2000 or something. And I personally started to get suspicious after he played c3 supporting the center followed by the next few moves of knight to c4 followed by queen b3. It's such a high level way to begin the middle game. As a lower rated player myself (on lichess i'm 1700 in classical) I would not have thought to play the knight to c4, because why would I take the bishop and help improve his pawn structure when I just sacrificed my bishop to destroy it? That moves seems counterintuitive to me from a strategical standpoint, but after queen b3 now you're threatening tactics. So, I wouldn't have found that tactic or sequence, because knight to c4 wouldn't have really crossed my mind, because it seems to be an anti-positional move.
@@maxrusty3596 True but in this case it has to be said that playing with 95% accuracy against a GM is 100x more difficult than playing with 95% accuracy against a 1200 player who makes a blunder or multiple inaccuracies
@@maxrusty3596 Lmao. You think you'd survive 15 moves vs Danya without already being in a losing position? (-2 for example) A 2000-2200 player who had to study the openings to get there will know this much theory. And you'll still have plenty players above 2k who just have a vague opening idea and just wing it. So heck no, nobody below 2k will play flawless theory, and even have a better position than Danya. You can have a rough idea of the first 15 moves. You can know one line first 7-10 moves. But if you play top engine moves like this fella, then you are at least 2300-2400, and even that is too low...
Most interesting chess video ive ever seen ! Nicely done ! ( and btw I m 1300 and this guy was definitely using an engine, just the fact that he didn’t fall in the trap of the ruy lopez proves it, yea that’s at this level we are playing at 1300 )
It's really admiring how nice Dani talks about these douchebags. He knew farely early in the game that this guy was cheating. There is 0% chance that this guy is legit 1200 :D
I almost died when he said "I don't think I'm in mortal danger of losing the game just yet." LMAO, like dude you're a freaking GM, Bruh, there is theoretically no chance a 1300 could have beat you up, unless your brain is no longer functional, or the player is cheating lol.
This game, it's just a testament to how well Dayna plays and teaches, playing against engine moves, on the clock, while explaining the reasoning behind the moves of both sides
As a 1750 on Lichess, I have played several games with 0 blunders and mistakes with average centipawn loss in sub 20s and even sub 10s. So, high accuracy is possible at that level. Even I can throw in 15 book moves in certain lines. However, I would never ever be able to find that insane c4 or Bb4 move. That is just nuts. 100% cheater.
Totally agree. As I keep saying, players at this level DO in fact know tons of theory. In fact, you need to know tons of theory just to get to that level. The difference is, we usually make inaccuracies/mistakes and often blunder in the middle game. Especially in blitz and rapid!!
really looking forward for senseiDyana to be bit higher rating so these games will be always on that level. very very good and instructive content, please give us more of that :)
@@caffeinator1849 these videos are recorded a few days or weeks (not too many though) in advance, so it’s likely the cheater was banned before the video was even posted
The 1300: “shit, this guy's cheating too."
“This dude engine stronger than mine 😯😠”
😂
😂
@@slythespacecat dude's engine : 🧠
Lmfao
Imagine what must've gone through Kingslayer's head as he realized his engine wasn't beating a "1300" right out of the opening 🤣
Ironically cheaters could be the most active reporters of other cheaters 😅
@@MarioMartinazzi I guess that does make some sense, cheaters will find other cheaters easily because they can look at their opponents absurd top moves.
GMs can do it just through knowledge of the game.
Cheaters usually can't even take a hanging Queen without looking at the engine. So I'm not sure if they can even realize it when they are winning.
He probably leaned into the engine further thinking he was playing a cheater
Maybe he knew he was playing Danya though
1500s playing at 95% accuracy happens when their opponent makes a blunder. Not when their opponent is a GM
This. People keep saying "I'm a 700 and I get 95% games sometimes". Nah, 95% against a noob is not the same as 95% against a GM.
It's not about the title or elo, usually engines make weird moves thats hard for a human to see (stockfish being the top leader of making weird moves), they are prophylaxis moves that prevent weakness since they calculate way further than humans, what matters is centipawn lost, accuracy means nothing, Chess is plagued with cheating even some GMs have used engines during critical lines and then win.
This is true. I’ve had such accuracy but definitely not against a GM
tbf i've played games where we've both had mid 90s at 1400 but all of the moves were really easy to find.
a 1350 can easily get 99% accuracy when the opponent blunder and lose in 8 moves...
I love how Naroditsky always asks what move he should play, while selecting the piece he will move, with the mouse over the square he will move it to.
Or when he says something like "if the pawn pushes, we will take with our pawn" and then once it actually happens asks if he should take with the queen or pawn lol
Yup, and then I convince myself that I found it all by myself 😂.
Lmao
@GoodKnightChess bruh i got got
Dora the Explorer for adults
The "I messed up but I don't know what I did wrong" is something I frequently hear when GMs play against cheaters.
always
Yeah. The engine is like 3700 rated or something insane so its traps are long-cons and it's extremely difficult to see them coming.
Also what Peter Biyiasas said about Bobby Fischer, since Fischer is basically an engine.
I mean you heard him confess that he had gotten out of his theoretical knowledge around move seven or eight. He has a vague remembrance at times Think about it clearly thought. We watched a 1270 force a draw against a high level GM in the most theoretically known chess opening in human history, and it was all behind a single backwards pawn. Not a single player below 2600 would have found the defensive resource of walking the king over to help defend the backwards pawn after castling. All that and he barely held it. I believe that's why he went for the drawish endgame and offered a draw. A normal 1270 would never have taken a draw after investing that long. Engine cheaters look to get in and get out, they don't want to play 40 move marathon games that devolve into long endgames. But think about that. A 1270 crushed a GM behind a plan centered around ONE BACKWARDS PAWN at 1270 I didn't CONSCIOUSLY know backward pawns we were even targets until I was attacking them with my rook in the endgame.
or Magnus 😄
No matter the cheating, this was one of the most instructive videos I’ve seen. Thank you
Like Dani says, him calling someone suspicious is not in any way accusing anyone of cheating. Any actions taken by his viewers thereafter are just degenerate idiocy, which he denies advocating for in any way.
Agreed, hope this doesn’t demotivate him, just shows how good his teaching is
@@svenpoletka5236 That simple blunder in the last game kinda gives him/her away.
@@flavio5046 its likely a strong and weak player sharing an account tho
That's cuz he never plays the really hard guys. He should take his speedruns to 3000.
Meanwhile on another stream, Magnus is blackout drunk and gets his little brother banned.
Exactly what happened
May i ask what video/stream it was ?
@@kragi02 I wouldn't bet on it but I'd say that was a joke and it never happened
@@kragi02 fcking whoosh bro
@@vijaykrishnan5751 u wouldnt bet on it
Can we appreciate how daniel basically drew to an engine, with black. Nuts
His opponent intentionally did not play all the top moves. He mixed his 1200 elo moves with engine moves in order to save his ass from being blocked
@@gamblingtipssuggestions3016 Didn't work for him, he got his account locked 5 minutes after.
@@gamblingtipssuggestions3016 I think he mixed from top 3 to top 1 engine moves… maybe 1 or 2 where played by him
@@dwiii1635 how do you know?
He's a GM what do you expect.
imagine its a GM on the other end and he also reports Daniel for cheating 🤣
Despite the cheating. It’s a bit of a guilty pleasure when these videos come about. While we usually get Danya’s responses to natural movements, the engine sort of forced a Grandmaster level short instructional video at what should be a 1300 game. I always love a peek into the mind of GMs playing chess and to see their responses to literally perfect moves is always so instructive. Thanks Daniel for the excellent content as always.
I would prefer Danya comment a 10 minute game against a human GM tho!
@@tristanbass-krueger7195 Those would be great as well! Haha
except its clearly 2 players sharing an account
@@tristanbass-krueger7195 you just watched one
Theyre not literally perfect moves, engines dont play perfect chess.
"im exhausted" says danya after casually drawing stockfish 🐐🐐
Lot of respect for holding back on the cheating accusation. As a GM with so much experience, the warning sirens must have been absolutely blasting. But instead, he didn't want to insult his opponent's character. And even when he starts to believe the opponent is cheating, he did everything he could to make this game a great learning experience.
It's a great learning experience for sure, I don't mind these vs cheater games at all, in fact they're one of my favorites. However, the cheating was super obvious, Danya playing around as if some 1300 will find these moves(or know the theory) and with such quickness is quite ridiculous.
Danya- i think he was using an engine
Opponent- shit! My opponent was also using an engine
Danya has a more sketchy record.
He knew who he was playing. I bet he turned on the engine specifically because he saw who his opponent was.
@@AFastidiousCuber not really, Daniel showed another suspicious game of his, he's just cheating
@@AFastidiousCuber I can understand cheating against a smurf.
@@Liwet. What do you mean?
this is why i love and respect danya's content. He's instructive, explains the moves chat says (which i also see) and explain why they could be played but not the best, and he is always considerate when he faces a cheater, he doesnt accuse them he keeps his opinion to himself until he can prove it. Much respect
27:04 "I will try to win the endgame, because maybe he will, let's put it this way, put his guard down a little bit" Oh boy, that was subtle and classy
Nothing gives me more pleasure than watching this video 4 months after its release then checking Kingslayer's account and seeing "Closed: Fair Play". Feels good man.
This is why i love daniel, he is constantly calm and mature when handling adversity, makes the videos that much more instructive and fun to watch
*throws mouse* 😅
yeah except when he gets straight up outplayed by naka :D destructive af
The best way to watch these videos is to pause after every move the opponent makes, figure out what I would do and why, and then listen to what Daniel would do so that I can see if I missed anything important.
I know you're right and yet i can't help but bingewatch the whole thing.
great idea thx
@@louisgrossmann-wirth9049 it means you're here for entertainment, not to learn. 3/4 of the stuff he showed in this video will leave your head by the next day. You'll be lucky if you remember ever watching this video a week later.
What impresses me is he knows all my bad moves before I make them.
@@barbaraGobert31 That's a good way to put it. There are plenty of highly skilled chess teachers out there who know all the best moves, but Danya specifically knows which of the worst moves bad players are likely to make.
I was so proud of finding the b3 - a4 - Ba3 setup as a secondary idea, then became even happier, when he played it. Turns out, it's one of the few inaccuracies in the game.
Pretty funny how that, optically, looks like one of the more engine-like moves
Are you my favorite Doctor, Dr. Gabor Mate? (The addiction specialist) I love you.
@@derekmiller6422 Nope, it's sort of a common name in Hungary. How ironic, both my b3 line and the love directed towards me were misguided. This day keeps giving :D
its an inaccuracy for the computer sure but at least the plan for normal human beings is good or at least looks extremely appealing,i didnt consider b3 Ba3 at all,i was only looking at a4
I think this was findable, and most of the stuff Danya talked about was findable at 1600 level, but suspicious at 1200. However, Kh2 was very suspicious, because why would that even be on one's radar?
Me: drops off urine sample at the lab
The lab technician: 14:02
haha wtf
hahahha good one :D
LMAO
LMAO
😂😂😂
bb4 as prophylaxis for ra8 is typical GM/engine stuff. And the way he got a serious advantage of the opening against a GM in what Danya thought was typical Ruy Lopez theory is a clear sign. This guy is a typical smart cheater, wouldn't have got caught if he didn't play a GM
Absolutely. It's these insidious ones that really ruin the online game. They use the engine 'SELECTIVELY' as Danya perfectly puts it in order to try and avoid detection. Vile, sad, manipulative people.
Red flags for me was the pawn tension lasting so long in a couple different instances in this game. Players in that rating level don't usually let two pawns sit like that for more than a move.
Bishop to B4 was weird to me. It doesn't seem to do anything obvious and something like a rook lift to put more pressure on the pawn at D6 on the next move with the other rook... makes way more sense for that rating level.
@@Mantose262 😁Sounds about right. I'm Low Elo Jones over here, and central pawn tension can be very frustrating when you're unsure when, or how to resolve it and open the position safely.
I've played against other Low Elo's with seemingly perfect positional play in the opening, but if they're human and under 1300, it gets wonky rather fast.
To be fair, Im 1200ish and I know several lines in the Ruy Lopez. Some of those lines are 8 book moves deep. Sure hope I never get banned for using my main opening because of my rating 🤦♂️
Bb4 was what I found suspicious too. Endgame technique is what separates the really strong players, while opening knowledge varies.
The other player's perspective, "Wow either this guy is cheating or he's incredibly underrated, and actually a 2400+ player."
He knows who he is playing, and that it being an educational game a loss will not count against his rating.
It really is pathetic that people feel the need to cheat. I will never understand the mentality. Major props to Danya for his patience and still makes such brilliant teaching insights.
I understand why _kids_ cheat online, and I might understand why some adults cheat in random match-ups like this. They weren't expecting A GM in sheep's clothing.
What I _don't_ understand are the cheaters who intentionally sign up to be part of streaming videos with Hikaru and other well known GM's. Very few people get a chance to play a fun game of chess with a Grandmaster... and these people just throw away the experience. 🤷♂️
@@snickle1980 Thye already know the outcome, so how is it a fun experience if they want to win rather than learn?
@@yzfool6639 sweats man, they care too much to the internet ladder instead of having fun
@@yzfool6639 If they want to win, then why play a GM, playing a GM is a good learning opportunity, not a good winning opportunity. The point snickle is making is that these cheaters are wasting the chance for someone who genuinely wants to learn to play, just so that they can get caught cheating.
@@yzfool6639 For cheaters, the thrill is in the act of pulling a fast one on their fellow man and the attempt to get away with it, regardless of the outcome.
With adults, who knows...I think It's like the sad cousin of the endorphin rush you'd typically get from legitimate success in life. Just pathetic all around.
Danya is young but he teaches like a well-experienced teacher with decades of practice. Very impressive
He gained 500 points in the 30 days previous to this, so he was either a 800, or he's the Rocky of chess and he's gonna be facing Magnus in the WCC.
I suspect he is Max Deutsch.
Account
Quickly improving from 800 to 1300 is not suspicious. I got to 1200-1300 very fast in 10+0. Then I started to lose games on time, and slowed down.
@@williamh694 In a month... unlikely
@@bayesian0.0 I went from 1100-1500 in a month... Only because I got back into chess at that point.
The investigation part of whether a players cheating or not is some dope content on its own
Looks so easy to play chess when Dayna explains all of these things, but when we were playing, looks like we just throw out the piece on the board without to thought about the next move.
Imagine being a random Spanish priest 500 years ago playing chess and now the best players in the world say your name on a daily basis.
Edit: I have been informed that he in fact wasn’t a random guy but instead a really strong player who wrote books on chess theory. Even still, the point stands - it’s pretty crazy that your idea from 500 years ago is being used by the top players (assisted by computers too no less)
Sounds pretty good 😂😂
He was a chess master no?
He was the strongest player in spain and wrote books about chess theory. He was not just some random priest who played chess.
@@ludomirsteinbruck9376 He's from 500 years ago. Master might be a generous term for him. He was an early innovator, but I really doubt many of the players from that time are >2000 FIDE strength.
@@descendency Strength is subjective, just 'cause DaVinci couldn't build his design for a helicopter doesn't mean he wasn't brilliant, the means at his disposal were entirely different to a modern inventor. Without the aide of engine analysis, readily available printed books & magazines or plentiful tournaments to attend, it's a good bet Magnus wouldn't be 2000 either.
I love how Daniel expected almost all engine moves, what a god
I appreciate your attitude towards chat's propensity to accuse players of cheating far too often/early. You take a very respectable "calm down, let's wait and see" approach which I find refreshing and laudable
GM Danya talking through the thinking process, reacting to the live comments, and later showing how he determines whether to report someone or not - another excellent video!🙏
The moves that made me most suspicious were the king moves. 1200s generally don't move their kings unless there's a clear objective or threat. They rarely move them for unclear "positional" play in the middle game.
h3 and Kh2 were weird moves
it's not only 1200s, even Danya couldn't understand the point of those moves. Clearly an engine move.
@@danielnery4054 They werent engine moves, they were his own dumb moves because he didnt play 100% engine moves.
@@izzymarz6788 Yeah because they were his own moves, he didnt use engine for every move. Thats why Danya was able to draw in the first place
Yeah they were his own moves, not engine moves.
Two things strike me about this:
- Daniel held his own against an engine, which while not necessarily a surprise, it is really impressive to behold.
- This was one of the most compelling and comprehensive analyses that I have seen, and for Daniel, that is saying a lot, because he is the best teacher I have encountered on youtube, though that isn't to say there aren't others. I was drawn to this because of the title (I don't have time to watch every Danya video) to see how he would respond to the cheater, but the learning value was incredible.
Daniel held his own because this guy was mixing his own dumb moves in to avoid detection, and he also wasnt taking the #1 engine move everytime. GM's cant hold their own against engines. Not even with pawn odds.
@@rykehuss3435 I'm well aware of all this. Are you telling me I should be less impressed?
Wow, this movie had everything! The nemesis was a little predictable but ever so often slipped into uncharted territory. The hero was brilliant as always. Overall, I'd give it a 9 out 10.
Danya's professionalism is unmatched. I have so much respect for him for keeping his cool and giving the benefit of the doubt to the opponent, especially in this case when his reputation was on the line with new viewers coming from Charlie's stream. On top of that, he draws the game against a cheater attesting to his chess proficiency. What a gem we have.
Hey Daniel. Just wanted to say - really appreciate your chess videos. The narration is perfect with your explanations and reasonings of your move decisions and potential opponent move decisions. Everything makes sense and is logical. You're a natural teacher. Thanks
Class act Danya comes through again. This is how we should act in everyday life. If we have our suspicions then we should take the time to investigate and gather evidence and only then make a claim about somebody. The internet is a breeding ground for people who will make accusations that are empty. They will make sensationalist videos and posts that will try to influence us. Daniel, thank you for educating us on how to be better people as well as better chess players
hes def a class act but lets all be honest drawing against a 2600 + gm when ur 1200 is evidence enough ur cheating. mathematically speaking you have zero chance of winning and maybe in theory 1 in 10000000 chance of drawing but pracitically u will always lose
Accuracy: 95%
Danya: I'd say there's a 95% chance he cheated
XD
danya revealing that he knew how to pronounce the rye lopez all along
wry lopez
wow this is my first time watching you and I love how thorough you go with your moves and how patient you are with explaining them.
That endgame was really instructive, really well defended Danya
Positive: you get a ton more views for every one of these games... and as well, I enjoy how you play against the computer, explaining your strategy and your anticipation of what your opponent's ideas are. Great video
This speedrun videos are just too good...
I often leave them playing in the background while i'm studying, so relaxing and entertaining.
"I love ignoring your videos"
a new level of admiration for Daniel who kept giving the benefit of the doubt to not accuse of cheating i myself am pretty new to chess but have been studying the ruy lopez in great detail so i had all the same moves up to half way. it could also be another GM with a new account or doing there own rating climb .. yes i totally agree with Daniel there is some what evidence that leads to specualtion of cheating yet he manages to not act like other childish youtube streamers who carry on all salty and berate their opponents its not like something is on the line as he mentioned very kind and professional is Daniel Naroditsky and i myself am very pleased and lucky to get content like this.
Thanking you much!
When you try to cheat, but accidentally play against a super-gm.
🥵 lol
He is not a super gm. Super gm is 2700 fide, not 2600 FIDE like naroditsky
@@TheMrInfantaria Anyone who can draw against a chess-engine is a super-gm.
@@TheMrInfantaria Whatever the term, point is DN is a high level GM especially on fast time formats which is basically what he is doing. On the fly he is teaching, talking and sometimes laughing it up as he plays. You have to have very quick calculation ability for that.
@@TheMrInfantaria super gm has no rating requirement, it’s not a formal title. Naroditsky is easily a super gm.
I love how he says that he'll tell something after the game and he actually remembers to tell those things.
He should rename this video to "The Ruy Lopez - an in depth analysis by GM Danya". I love how Danya simply plays against the board and casually draws against the engine while giving his opponent the benefit of the doubt because he thinks most of the moves are easily findable. No drama here, just some great chess.
Danya, unimaginable respect for the way you approached the topic of playing against a (suspected cheater). Way to keep a calm head and advocate that your only duty is to report. As always, very instructive content. Thank you for the upload.
As a 1500 rated player on rapid i can confirm that 1500s play like 95 % accuracy when their opponent blunders not when their opponent is gm
29:56 that reaction is funny because I had this exact move happen in one of my rapid games. I was also surprised by that move.
tbh, these cheating videos are really instructive, i'm 2200 rated on lichess and i can't really learn much from your videos since your opponents make obvious blunders, but against engine i can see you struggle and try to DEFEND, it's really nice
i wish you would have played a rapid once a month! against stockfish and explain your thought process during the game
Lol it would probably be even more beneficial for him to analyze his own official games on stream.
It‘s so nice how you‘re not getting angry even if he has cheated and just accept it the way it is
It's like he played all the top engine moves then selectively played some weaker moves to give away his advantage.
Thats what he did, exactly. Also he didnt pick top engine move everytime, sometime's #2 or #3. All to avoid automatic detection
Love u Naro. Thank you for always bringing us quality content.
Imagine knowing theory like a gm , and being in the 1200s. He is stream watching ?
Also I love how he saved the game to study with
A very instructional video. And I think Daniel handled the possibility of cheating very tactfully and in good spirit. That attitude by itself is something to learn from.
This is really very unfortunate that so many players are cheating these days.... Few months ago I also faced a cheater... I am glad that for a long time I was able to found some best/good defensive moves... But at the end of the day.. I am a human being.. and not as strong as Danya... Ultimately he checkmated me...
I don't think cheating is as pervasive as people think it is. In around 1800 rapid games, I have gotten my rating points refunded only 3 times. It is sad that it occurs at all but I wouldn't make such a big deal out of it. Maybe it's more pervasive at higher ratings but at my level of 1500-1600 it is not.
Just play blitz with no increment
@@xMartyZz not all the cheaters get caught
@@xMartyZz It's quite pervasive.
So cool of you that you still pointing that you are not accusing him. Thank you for this instructive game.
When I was younger, I cheated with online chess and I felt extremely terrible. I didn’t feel good at all and immediately stopped. I can’t see how these guys continuously do that and feel good about themselves.
And being someone who cheated, you don’t always play the top engine moves because the assumption is that you’ll be caught for cheating if you do, and the obvious goal is to not get caught.
When you were 1 hour younger?
@@ChessJourneyman lmfao 😂
That’s hilarious. I meant young young. I was around 16 years old.
Hey Nasir, total credit for fessing up. I think everyone has things from their younger days they'd rather forget but most wouldn't go public.
but this isnt a cheater
@@thetechconsultant you are still a child a baby
Thank you very much for these instructive and entertaining videos brother! I learn a lot from the way you teach and really enjoy it along the way
I don’t think anybody realized Naroditsky drew a modern chess computer in a rapid game. That’s wildly impressive you guys, he’s gotta get some props
Nah, the cheater threw in some inaccurate moves as well
@@jacokyle0160 stockfish + a few inaccuracies is still very hard to draw for 99% of chess players
@@jacokyle0160 gotta keep in mind its time controlled and Danya has no computer assistance.
@@insight827 Not this one. This opponent threw away his winning chances and went for a known drawn endgame. Easy draw if you play at GM level
@@insight827 I mean, less than half a percentage of chess players are GM so is it really impressive coming from him?
Best commentary I’ve heard, learning a lot as a total noob.
I'm a 1500+ player, I'll never find these moves what he played.. Unless he is also a GM and recording stuffs for his own speedrun content.. That will be epic though..
Totally agree with you, very good point, we are basically the same rating and i play the Ruy Lopez as White. I know a lot of theory in the Ruy but most of this guy's moves in the middle and endgame were definetely out of my class. Way out of my class😆
@@andreitiberiovicgazdovici Imagine both of them being GM undercover, thinking the other one was a cheater
I just subscribed. This is probably the best instructional video I have seen so far. Great job.
Cheating and only a 1300, he must be using a commodore 64
funny comment, take this like 👍
@@JM-tj5qm that’s why I don’t accept rematches. It’s just so much more likely someone is going to cheat after you’ve just beat them
@@JM-tj5qm This was the case for the, to date, four people I have received point refunds from. I remember each and had a close look at their histories before I put in the report. It was never 100% win streak stuff. Just perfect games mixed in with the usual I would expect for their rating. One guy had a whole profile listing membership in a chess club, extensive friends list and the whole bit. He got the hammer.
Glad I spent the morning before work watching this one :) Thanks! I'll give the Ruy a spin today.
Damnn...for so long I thought this was called the royal opez LOL
Lmao that's pretty funny
Close game! Very instructive to a 1600 who’s not super well versed in our old friends favorite lines; the 16th century Priest, Father López :)
While cheating is despicable and the situation should not have happened, I do enjoy these games against cheaters. I can pretend that Danya is instead playing against a fellow GM, while sharing his thoughts and ideas carefully and patiently for amateurs (like me) to follow.
Thank you for the streams and the videos Danya! I learned a lot from them while having a great time.
Having someone Danya played so strong was great how Danya explained how to play positional chess in the middlegame. I want Danya to analyze more high level games against GMs to show more of this incredibly accurate and positional play.
I don't understand cheating at online chess. You gain nothing. The ego boost from the higher rating is fake.
Absolutely. The thing to remember about online games is that there are a lot of children online and they don't understand that about themselves. For some of them, it's about simple domination through whatever means. And then there are also a lot of adults out there who have never emotionally matured and are still stuck at that level.
They get to play correct moves against high rated players. It's as simple as that.
It can only be about griefing. The pleasure comes from someone elses pain
When I was younger I cheated with online chess and it felt extremely terrible. I didn’t feel good at all and immediately stopped. I can’t see how these guys continuously do that and feel good about themselves.
And being a cheater myself, you don’t always play the top moves the engine gives you because the assumption is that you’ll be caught for cheating if you do and the obvious goal is to not get caught.
How can an ego boost be fake? Their rating is fake, but surely they are more aware of their feelings than you are.
Your content is awesome! Just recently started watching. Beginner here. Keep it up!
In this case this guy was cheating, but I think chat needs to remember that basically any time a
Ok cheater
Qb3 is not uncommon or hard to find. It’s a very common tactic when the black bishop moves away from the defense of the b7 pawn. I’m 800 and play that move all the time. Levy and Rosen mention that move in several opening videos and traps beginners should watch out for. C4 was ridiculous though as well as the king waiting moves and Bb4.
Twitch chat represents a huge group of people. Huge groups of people are collectively re t a rded if there is no hierarchy and no rules to follow. So twitch chat throwing stupid accusations shouldn't surprise you
Always nice to hear from someone who has studied the history of chess and chess anecdotes.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that kingslayer guy on Hikaru’s channel and Hikaru had to block him because he steam snipes and cheats.
Thanks for this video, very interesting game and much pleasure to watch. I have learned a lot. But most of all, thanks for the teaching of how being a human, and to give the other player the doubt of not cheating, during the game. It was the real lesson for me
if a true 1200-1300 lasts until the endgame without blundering against Danya, then they're cheating lol. And on top of that the 1270 player caused Danya to have a worse position most of the game. I think Danya publicly takes this position not to accuse people of cheating because it's poor sportsmanship, but Danya and the rest of us all knew internally rather quickly that the guy was cheating lolol
No he doesnt accuse ppl because its not as hard as u guys think to just play a solid game. If u understand Danya knows way more about the game of chess than we all do u have to also understand he has a much better sense when ppl are cheating as well. He checked with th engine that gives him a better idea but u guys r idiots if u think he was cheating at the start of the game because it's impossible to know that the way he played.
@@maxrusty3596 Yeah in a ruy lopez I could navigate the first 10 moves just fine, unless white plays really obscure variation of it. It's the most played opening for a reason.
@max rusty I said I knew the guy was cheating because he played a game without blundering, not because of his opening play. For a true 1270 player playing against a GM this is not going to happen, because GMs are making too frequent good moves and their understanding of the position at almost every stage of the game will cause the lower rated player to lose the thread at some point, meaning they've lost an understanding of the core issues and objectives in the position. And you can see hundreds of games at this point where Danya does this to players at every rating range, i.e, dismantling their position due to superior understanding and experience. So how does this one 1270 manage to avoid the fate that every other honest 1270 player has suffered...cheat! And I'm putting emphasis on TRUE 1270. Not 1270 on the account who is actually 1800 or 2000 or something.
And I personally started to get suspicious after he played c3 supporting the center followed by the next few moves of knight to c4 followed by queen b3. It's such a high level way to begin the middle game. As a lower rated player myself (on lichess i'm 1700 in classical) I would not have thought to play the knight to c4, because why would I take the bishop and help improve his pawn structure when I just sacrificed my bishop to destroy it? That moves seems counterintuitive to me from a strategical standpoint, but after queen b3 now you're threatening tactics. So, I wouldn't have found that tactic or sequence, because knight to c4 wouldn't have really crossed my mind, because it seems to be an anti-positional move.
@@maxrusty3596 True but in this case it has to be said that playing with 95% accuracy against a GM is 100x more difficult than playing with 95% accuracy against a 1200 player who makes a blunder or multiple inaccuracies
@@maxrusty3596 Lmao. You think you'd survive 15 moves vs Danya without already being in a losing position? (-2 for example)
A 2000-2200 player who had to study the openings to get there will know this much theory.
And you'll still have plenty players above 2k who just have a vague opening idea and just wing it.
So heck no, nobody below 2k will play flawless theory, and even have a better position than Danya.
You can have a rough idea of the first 15 moves. You can know one line first 7-10 moves. But if you play top engine moves like this fella, then you are at least 2300-2400, and even that is too low...
Most interesting chess video ive ever seen ! Nicely done ! ( and btw I m 1300 and this guy was definitely using an engine, just the fact that he didn’t fall in the trap of the ruy lopez proves it, yea that’s at this level we are playing at 1300 )
It's really admiring how nice Dani talks about these douchebags. He knew farely early in the game that this guy was cheating. There is 0% chance that this guy is legit 1200 :D
I really enjoy when Danya plays the cheaters. We get to see a GM's thought process in a very tough position.
I almost died when he said "I don't think I'm in mortal danger of losing the game just yet." LMAO, like dude you're a freaking GM, Bruh, there is theoretically no chance a 1300 could have beat you up, unless your brain is no longer functional, or the player is cheating lol.
you wont believe it..
I like how you’re very instructive
Daniel : The accuracy might not be as high as we think it is.
The accuracy : been with snoop dogg
This game, it's just a testament to how well Dayna plays and teaches, playing against engine moves, on the clock, while explaining the reasoning behind the moves of both sides
His account has already been closed for cheating, so yes he was cheating. but it was an amazing game:-)
“Too bad the other guy was using an engine too”
The most disappointing thing is that he has Pink Floyd - Dark side of the moon as his profile picture....sacrilegious
Pink Floyd used children for some tracks and never paid a dime, so...
Great video! Thank you so much!
Lmao the guy was a Hikaru sub
amazing vid. Cheating or not, this was a valuable lesson for Danya. Tks for this
id also like to point out the time the opponent took for each move
you're awesome Dan!
As a 1750 on Lichess, I have played several games with 0 blunders and mistakes with average centipawn loss in sub 20s and even sub 10s. So, high accuracy is possible at that level. Even I can throw in 15 book moves in certain lines. However, I would never ever be able to find that insane c4 or Bb4 move. That is just nuts. 100% cheater.
that generally happens when opponents blunder then basically all the moves are winning so the avg. centipawn loss is in 20s
Totally agree. As I keep saying, players at this level DO in fact know tons of theory. In fact, you need to know tons of theory just to get to that level. The difference is, we usually make inaccuracies/mistakes and often blunder in the middle game. Especially in blitz and rapid!!
Yep. Although u didn't think c4 was so wack. I may have played that , but Bb4 and kh2 are absurd
yeah and you’re also not getting that against a grandmaster lmao
You’re not facing testing moves from a super GM though. It’s much easier to get high accuracy when your opponents blunder’s mate on move 4.
really looking forward for senseiDyana to be bit higher rating so these games will be always on that level. very very good and instructive content, please give us more of that :)
Kingslayer996's account is already closed for fair play violation.
Well that was quick lol
@@caffeinator1849 these videos are recorded a few days or weeks (not too many though) in advance, so it’s likely the cheater was banned before the video was even posted
This game was played on 13th of january and i remember the account being closed the next day already
Really enjoying your vlog!
The funny thing is, even though he's probably cheating, he's also thinking that this 1300 opponent is cheating too :D
Thank you, so interesting!
Kingslayer996's account has been closed due to violating fair play
love the vids Danya! I am 1800 rapid player and never heard of the ruy lopez lol very optimistic to think he knows then main line into move 10 haha