Kawai NV5S vs K300 | Kawai Piano Sound Comparison and Overview | Family Piano Co.
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- ❗️🎹 Family Piano's Max compares the sound between two models of #Kawai pianos: the hybrid #NV5S and the acoustic #K300.
00:00 Intro and overview
02:55 Schwanengesang No. 4 "Ständchen" D.957 - F. Schubert (Arr. Horn) on the NV5S, external mic audio
04:19 "Ständchen" on the NV5S, internal digital audio
05:30 "Ständchen" on the NV5S, external mic audio
06:53 "Ständchen" on the NV5S, internal digital audio
08:30 "Ständchen" on the K300
14:04 Final thoughs
17:00 Conclusion and contact info
Disclaimer: While our opinions are our own, we are also a certified Kawai dealer.
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K 300 winner ❤️ Thank you for Sharing this Comparison👍 STAY SAFE🙏
Look at K-300 Auris, too.
great video. you're playing is really amazing. I love the pieces you were playing.
Hallo Max. Ich möchte heute nur einmal Danke sagen für deine / eure tollen Videos!!! Erstens spielst du wunderbar Piano! Zweitens kenne ich kaum jemanden der so gut sowohl Digitale- als auch akustische Pianos so professionell und ausführlich vorstellt! Und drittens spielst du die digitalen Pianos nicht nur über Kabel sondern auch mit dem Mikrofon abgenommen so das der Zuhörer auch einen Eindruck vom Raumklang bekommt! Und das finde ich Herausragend gut! Der Internal Digital Sound klingt bei sehr sehr vielen Digital Pianos hervorragend, aber oft über die Lautsprecher nicht annähernd so gut… Also noch einmal: Einen herzlichen Dank für eure Arbeit und die damit verbundenen tollen Konzerte!!! 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you! Very useful comparison!
Very nice video and playing. I always love your videos as you frequently record the external sound, as opposed to the internal sound. That’s so great. Other reviewers rarely do this.
I would pick the K300 aures2!
Thank you for providing a full sample of each rather than a brief couple of chords. It really was an excellent way of comparing them. Although I get what you are saying about the “organic” sound of the acoustic piano. I must say, however, that I really loved the sample of the NV5S and its ability to produce multiple samples, along with the simplicity of maintenance of the NV5S tips the scales that way for me, although many may disagree.
Definitely a very valid viewpoint - it really breaks down to your own core musical values, preferences, and ambitions. All the features and ease of maintenance of the NV5S really makes it very appealing alongside the awesome sound quality - but for a lot of people nothing will ever overcome the beauty, vivacious energy, aura (whatever abstract term you'd like to use) of the acoustic. I knew that any pianist considering choosing between these two pianos would have a tough call to make - thankfully I don't believe there's a "wrong" answer here, just a question of how well you know yourself musically. Thanks for watching! -Max
@@familypianoco
The acoustic need more maintenance sure but it also last longer. Do theses hybrids match that longevity???
Thanks for the real Sound
And thank you for watching! -Max
thanks for the presentation - only by unsing an external mic the audience is able to get an idea of the sound quality of both instruments. At my opinion I still hear some artificial sound playing the NV5S. Even though you have more posibilities on that (NV5S) instrument I would choose for the K300. The price for the K300 is unbeatable, it's sound is beautiful an clear. Hugh dynamic - Thanks for posting
Great video! Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I think majority of the “synthetic” feel comes from the lack of character. Like you said, digitals are very consistent with how they sound. What I notice a slight exageration on the low end of dynamics on digitals…or this could just be me. I havent been in front of a high end 9footer. Also digitals can only reach whatever samples it has. It does not change over time in terms of the hammer attack, how it was tuned or voiced and just the deterioration of parts in a general sense. Which is actually a benefit depending on who you are. It falls under the low maintenance factor. Well, i think the attack and voicing are tunable.
I personally pick the nv5s over anything, just because its more compact, it can act as a bluetooth hifi speaker inthe living area and, I can put on headphones it wouldnt be a bothersome for other people in the house.
Keep up the great vid! I love seeing how for digitals have come.
Jedok, really appreciate your comment! I think the exaggeration of the bass range you reference does largely come from the fact that most of the main or default piano voices on digital pianos are sampled or rendered from 9ft concert grands. The most impressive aspect of playing on a concert grand for me, and I think many pianists would agree, is how extraordinarily deep, resounding, and rich the bass range is. It's an incredible aural experience - but it's going to sound substantially "beefed up" from what you're used to playing on unless you have the fortune of regularly playing on concert grands. Sort of like the sound experience in a movie theater sound system - the bass is just well beyond what most home speaker systems can produce. Many pianists seem to gravitate towards something like 5'10" - 6"6' for what feels the most balanced to them for in-home use but of course it's a very subjective matter. If you set these digitals to the Upright Piano voice, the bass is not nearly so deep.
There's also an SK-2 voice which is a 5'10" Shigeru Kawai grand - I think many would consider it to be a better or more familiar balance between registers. Kawai's Virtual Technician tool gives you quite a lot of easy to use sound customization options so you can tweak just about all aspects of the piano voices to work best for you - big point in favor of going digital as well, all these customizations would take a piano technician many hours and a few hundred dollars for an acoustic and you can't just snap back instantly!
Thanks for watching! -Max
Very well done comparison! May I ask what microphone setup did you use for the external recordings? Was the setup the same for the two pianos? The NV5S sounds a little boxy, with a boomy bass that seems due to proximity effect, the stereo image is "mono" like, there is also not much high frequency detail in the sound. K300's bass in comparison seems thin, but the image is very stereophonic and detailed. Maybe the differences are also due to the different rooms sizes and distance from walls... K300 conveys a certain "wood" character, which is very nice. Regards!
Hi Pietro! We use a Zoom H1n Handy Recorder for our audio. We usually place it next to the speakers for digital pianos and right behind the soundboard for acoustic pianos. Ideally we would have someone behind the camera checking for technical issues, but our A/V team is small and we record our videos during business hours, so this isn't always feasible. We appreciate you watching and commenting anyway! - Jess
Splendido video, complimenti, personalmente preferisco il suono del k300
Amazin presentation
Thanks Max, very helpful video.
Glad it was helpful! -Max
Thanks for the comparison video, and beautiful playing. The K300 sounds much better to me, the NV5s sounds digital in the middle ranges to me, a little thin. I’ve also tried it too, and found it to be quite underwhelming. I prefer the sound and feel of both K200, and K300. I’ve only been on my piano journey for 18 months, so my ears may not be that great. Just my impressions though.
Hi! Did you use max volume for the external mic audio?
sostenuto - get it boyyyyy. Also yeah the room mic is softer on the hybrid
i think something happened to the mic while recording the external audio in the novus , it starts out just as loud as the k-300 but then the sound kind gets muffled few seconds in.
Did you try to use some VST with the hybrid piano? I think that pianoteq feels better than internal Kawai piano sounds
We haven't, but that does make me curious! Thanks for the comment. --Drew, 👪🎹
Hi Max! Raf from Italy here, thanks for this interesting video! Have you gotten to try the Yamaha equivalent?
Hi, Raf from Italy! Drew from Waukegan in Paris here. (: We usually get to try Yamahas at the annual NAMM conference in California. But it hasn't happened recently due to the pandemic. :c So we're unable to say how they compare to Yamahas. Did you get a chance to?
--Drew, 👪🎹
Interesting to hear the difference in these two, but perhaps a better comparison would be NV5S vs K200 - as the cabinet size is about the same. The larger cabinet size of the K300 is going to make a noticeable difference. The NV5S does not have a 'simulation' hammer action - it is the exact same upright piano action as the K200 but just has carbon fibre hammers that don't hit physical strings, but use optical sensors instead. I was surprised by how digital the NV5S sounded in this comparison though - in other demos I've heard it online it seems a lot more alive. I'd be interested to know what the volume level was set to on the NV5S for this demo and whether any of the resonance settings were active as it seemed a little lacking and quite dry sounding. In my opinion you can't beat a real acoustic piano, but I think my neighbours would disagree! - The NV5S is about the closest thing to it that I know of!!
Great comment, Ben!
We had chose the K300 because of price. The cabinet size didn't seem like a similar comparison because it's speakers vs soundboard.
The NV5S has the Millennium III Hybrid action instead of the regular Millennium III. Perhaps "simulation" wasn't the right choice, but it is an adapted version albeit very very similar.
And thanks for saying so about the sound. Each recording is gonna be slightly different since they're all done by different mics, at different settings, in different placements, etc. Volume on all our demos is set to half. And the sound otherwise is without effects!
Haha very true about the neighbors disagreeing! I'm also with you though. Digitals have their place, but if you're prioritizing the absolute best playing experience, it's gotta be a nice acoustic piano. Technology is getting better and better each year though -- maybe we'll be there soon!
--Drew, 👪🎹
One thing I haven't heard anyone discussing about these that I think is super important: the maintenance on the NV5/S. If it has a fully mechanical action, is it plagued by all the same maintenance problems as an acoustic? If so, is there anyone who works on or repairs these? Are normal piano technicians able to work on these just like an acoustic upright, or are all of the parts buried inaccessibly? I am curious, because as an investment, I am wondering if this $12k instrument will depreciate to near $0 once it starts having a mechanical problem. Hope you can answer some of these questions for us! Thank-you!
Hello! Super good question!
To be honest, a good quality new acoustic piano is going to have very few maintenance issues in general - the main thing is tuning and that's not an issue with the NV5s since it doesn't have any strings. The hammers aren't bouncing off strings and because the sound is generated, even if something DID become a little off-kilter, it's much less likely to actually impact your experience (in terms of wonky damper timing, for example)
In terms of the mechanical parts, it's not buried at all - a piano technician can refine the action just the way they can a regular acoustic piano, which is really nice - you can't really refine pretty much any other digital piano out there. Especially for more advanced players, being able to work with a good piano technician to regulate and refine the action to where you really want it is HUGE.
As an investment, the mechanical action of an acoustic piano is going to be a strong selling point for pretty much the rest of time. After all, we have acoustic pianos here from the 1960s that are in good enough shape that we feel comfortable warranting them for 3+ years. People want something that feels just like a real piano, but with the convenience (and price tag) of a digital! It'll be the electronic components that will be less exciting for future buyers, as time progresses, but that's the case with ANY digital instrument. Frankly, no piano will sell for the same price (or more) after a few years of ownership. Just like with a car, there will be some value drop when you drive it off the lot. But really, in comparison to any traditional digital, I see this one holding it's value MORE because of the enviable acoustic action, not LESS.
@@familypianoco Thank-you! That is a super helpful answer! I appreciate your thoughts and explanation.
Hi guys, I own a CLP775 and it's been a great jump from my first Roland FP10, but...something triggers my ear about the very bright (and sometimes noisy/ringy) CFX sample coupled with the fact that there is reverb and all kinds of resonance modelling on top...I just don't thing the speakers can cope with it. With headphones is much more bearable.
Does the NV5S sound cleaner considering it's another like 2000 more on top?
Hi there! As a Kawai dealer, we don't carry new Yamaha digitals so my level of familiarity with how each model sounds is not rock solid and I cannot directly compare them in person for you. But in general, Kawai's tend to be warmer, mellower instruments and this is apparent throughout most of the main piano sound samples of the Novus NV5S. The speaker quality on the NV5S is top notch and both I myself and all the fantastic pianists I've worked with over the years who have purchased a NV5S have been very satisfied with the sound quality from the onboard speakers. I've never had an experience of "earsplitting" types of brightness or speakers not being able to cope like you've described on your Yamaha and I tend to be pretty sensitive to certain types of bright electronic sounds like yourself. It's also very easy to tweak and customize each sound to get it exactly how you like it with the virtual technician tool. For example, I often will turn down certain reverb settings if I want a super clean, pure sound for practicing Bach or Mozart. I've never failed to find a sound that works for the music I'm working on with the NV5S although my own tastes change from day to day and a sound setting I really like one week I might not like so much the next week - I feel like that's pretty common for most pianists though and that's why I really appreciate the ease of sound customization with the Virtual Technician tool on Kawai digitals. I'll give my standard disclaimer of definitely try it yourself to make sure it's right for you, but I can personally vouch that it is one of the very best digital pianos you can get and I have enjoyed many, many hours of practice on it! -Max
@@familypianoco Thank you!
Thanks for the comparison. I actually have the NV5S in my home and this sounded nothing like it. Way too boxy. Even the K300 sounded boxy but I think it was louder than the NV5S.
When I bought the NV5S I also compared it to all digital hybrids in the market and some acoustics like K200/K300. While the K300 had a bit more character, the NV5S has the edge for me. The bass is so subtle and precise it sounds like a high-end grand! I have the experience that most acoustic uprights sound a bit rough in the lower registers.
It's also very practical and maintenance-free. And it has a real action (and damper pedal) with hammers, not a simulated one. Needless to say that the NV5S was better than the other hybrids. It has the sound, the looks, and the action of the real thing while keeping the neighbors happy!
Convenience is a major benefit with digital pianos. And yeah, not a ton of compromises you're making with the NV5S -- it's a great piano! Thanks for the comment, and happy playing! (: We'll see about improving the recording for the future, by the way. --Drew, 👪🎹
very interesting, as i am thinking of buying a nv5s. The first two-three bars on the k300 sounded great, then the treble hit in and was aweful. i play the classical guitar so my ear is quite sensitive. perhaps the k300 was out of tune in the upper register, it sounded honky-tonk.
The pianos are tuned before demos, but I think I hear what you mean a little. Could definitely be exasperated by that sensitive ear or your speakers though. I hope you were able to enjoy the video anyway!
--Drew, 👪🎹
For an intermediate/late intermediate clasaical player living in an apartment: NV5 or K200-atx4 (believe they are in same budget range)?
Personally, I'd advise you to go for the K200-ATX4. If you're a classical pianist in an apartment, 1) you're going to want the "most piano" experience, and 2) you want to have that experience silently. That's the K200. The NV5 is most of an acoustic piano, but there are some gaps in feel and sound.
Downsides are basically just that the K200 is heavier, slightly more expensive, and will require tuning and maintenance (which means it's more expensive to own, and less convenient than a digital/hybrid piano).
An interesting part of this conversation I'd also consider is the advancement of technology. In 10 years, the K200 will still be a great piano with a silent system. The NV5 may be lapsed by crazy new digital pianos that we can't imagine at the moment. Does that make it less appealing right now? I'd say no, but you may think differently.
Honestly, it's been getting a little harder to argue acoustic over digital as the years go by. For beginners, I think digitals do take the lead. But as a more advanced classical pianist, I think you're most safe with the acoustic. Just don't tell me you're also hoping to record/compose and jam with other instruments -- then you may lean towards the NV5S more.
End of the day, I don't know that you can go wrong though. Both will suit your needs. Best advice I can give you is definitely go try them out locally so you can form your own opinion.
--Drew, 👨👨👦👦🎹
@@familypianoconow I am concerned about the the Kawai NV5s arriving tomorrow - which would replace my K 15E.
guys, important question: K200 Anytime and NV5s are about the same price range in my country. Is there still any reason to prefer hybrid over accoustic if you cana play accoustic with silent system (anytime)? What would you prefer
I strongly prefer an acoustic piano whenever reasonably possible. The K200 Anytime gives you both. The only reason I'd pick the NV5S is if there aren't any piano tuners or technicians in your area. If tuning the instrument is going to be a big problem, then yes, go with the NV5S. Otherwise, K200 Aures all day. I hope this helps! ~ Brendan
@@familypianoco wow, thanks for that great advice, ill just tested the nv5s , and to be honest, i dont think it is worth the price. It feels somehow weird, having an grand piano action on a hybrid upright, with upright soundsystem. If i am wrong, correct me
@@Isshosan1 I believe you're wrong as it has an upright action. I think it is the NV10/S that has a grand piano action.
Mine arrives tomorrow to replace my K-15 E due to that it seldom stays in tune and one key kept clicking (tuner could not figure it out after multiple tries). I am hoping for improved action and genuine sound quality that does not make me miss the time when my K-15 was actually in tune.
I have a 30 day special trial window for returning it if it fails to impress
Good comparison, but it is always so difficult to judge a dp, considerig the amount of settings ti customize. I am very curious and now waiting for Mine. While the k300 would have been my First choice, my neighbours propably wouldnt Share my joi
Good point Hans! On some level, it's like comparing apples to oranges with considerable pros and cons to either one. I have the CA79 at home currently and love it but aspire to complement it with an additional upright acoustic (Maybe even a hybrid!) one day to get the best of both worlds!
K-300 is warmer but the NV5S wasn't bad either ❤
between NV5S and K200 ATX4 which one should i choose and why?
While they are about the same price, the K200 ATX4 is my pick personally. It's essentially an argument of digital piano vs acoustic piano though. Can you handle tuning the piano regularly? Do you want to play with tones frequently? Would you benefit from the best possible touch? Will you need to move it? The ATX4 gives you the brains of Kawai's best digital pianos, but you can only access the features through headphones. That's fine with me personally, and I have a spot where I could fit an acoustic piano, and I can make room for maintaining it in my budget. If any of those things aren't true, the NV5S is one of the best digital pianos you can buy today, and you will be happy with its sound and feel too.
Y'a pas photo.. Magnifique k300
I prever nv
Just a decade ago preferring a digital to an acoustic would've been insane, but these days it's a very fair take! Thanks for the comment! --Drew, 👪🎹
What about nv10s compared with k-300 ? What do u think ? Which one u prefered?
Well. The NV5S is interesting, and I share many of Max's opinions about how it compares to an acoustic. But the NV10S gets too much dip for its chip, in my opinion. At its MAP price of $15k, it competes with a K300 Aures, which is a K300 with the brains of a Concert Artist digital. So the question is would you prefer the digital that most accurately mimics a grand, or an acoustic upright that also has the features of a digital? --Drew, 👪🎹
@@familypianoco because in my country there is only K300 NV5S and NV10S 😅
@@familypianoco it's for 3.5x3.5 meters room
Wait so between a K300, NV5S and NV10S? Again, I'd personally rule out the NV10S. It's a good piano, but very niche in who it's for. Between K300 and NV5S. . . well, you have the video. If you want a pure piano and are okay with the cost of yearly tunings, go with the K300. If not, NV5S is as good a digital as it gets, and you'll be happy with it for a long time. Also remember: they are just instruments. Get one you like, and get to playing -- that's what's most important! --Drew, 👪🎹
@@familypianoco Ok, thx u
If I wanted the best of both worlds, at this general price level, I'd buy the K300 Aures 2, or the K500 Aures 2. Assuming you have the required funds to do so, this seems like a no-brainer to me...
K500 Aures 2 is definitely my dream piano, personally. But the NV5S is less expensive than both options. Plus no yearly tunings or maintenance. So it's not just about the price, but also the convenience when you get to digitals. NV series are solid for going "as acoustic as possible" while still keeping all the perks of digital.
--Drew, 👨👨👦👦🎹
I used to play NV 5S and I must admit it sounds a little bit artificial. The keyboard is quite heavy. The back speakers cause vibrations that one may consider annoying. If you used to play Yamaha CLP you will see a great difference.
Digitals have come a long way, but yes, they do still sound a little digital. I don't get an annoying feeling from the vibration though -- that's a critique I hadn't heard before. Thanks for watching! ((: --Drew, 👨👧👧🎹
isn't the fact that it vibrates more than a CLP a feature not a bug ? I believe the NV5S has a real soundboard with transducers for that purpose
De 300 klinkt wel mooier dan de nv5 ,maar voor een digitale piano is het zeker een overweging waard vooral in veel thuissituaties
NV5 less boxy than other digital, but still a lot boxy compared to an acoustic.
A digital will always be a digital, frankly. It's super impressive how close it's getting, but yeah, those lows don't thunder quite the same. Of course, it being a recording is also partly to blame! --Drew, 👪🎹
Kawai k300 made in Japan?
Yes, all K-300s made for the US market are made in Japan and this one says Made in Japan under the lid! -Max
The NV5 is made in Japan as well...
For the European market, all Kawai K-300 are made in Indonesia. I've ended up ordering one. :-)
My biggest concern is that NV5 is electronic. K300 would last a long time (several decades, albeit with decaying performance), but NV5's electronics would eventually fail, and there won't be any parts to repair regardless of the cost.
You're not wrong. All manufacturer's are required to keep spare parts for at least 7 years past when they stop making the instrument and kawai is pretty good about keeping parts for a good long time. But yeah, like anything, it won't last forever!
That said, you might consider the K300 Aures, which is the best of both worlds!
Speakers produce an emulation of the real acoustic sound. Obviously, an emulation of a thing is never going to be better than the thing itself. People choosing digital are doing so for other reasons like sharing a wall with neighbors, or space (the NV5S is only 46 cm deep).
K300 is on a completely different league. More power, wider dynamic range, more colorful sound.
That being said, for what it is; the NV5s is extraordinary. And considering you can play it with a pair of headphones without bothering anyone is a huge advantage over the K300.
But if you just want the best sounding piano without caring about anything else, there is honestly no contest. The K300 totally obliterate the NV5s
Yes, I agree - acoustics will likely always be the way to go for piano purists who care just about the fundamentals of touch and sound. It's more a question of just how close the digital piano can come to satisfying those fundamentals while offering a lot of useful, fun features on top of that. As a piano teacher, I'd say if a *high quality* digital inspires significantly more practice time through its helpful features than a corresponding level acoustic, it'd have the better educational value to the student overall. Thanks for watching! -Max
this is a bit like the argument about a good classical guitar and say a Martin or Gibson or similar - i.e. steel strings vs nylon. Or for that matter an electric guitar and a classical. As I play all these now for many years, my ears are well tuned. Actually the digital piano has a purer sound - and good ones can be adjusted too. The acoustic piano, for it very nature, where three and two strings are hit by a felt hammer will always produce an eccentric sound, and when one of those strings is ever so slightly out of tune, this can add to the tonal character, or be just awful. I learn on two different acoustic pianos, one a Steinway grand, the other a Steinweg Gothan (?) upright. My piano teacher always gets annoyed when I complain about the lousy action and that both are out of tune in places - not surprising considering how many different hands get to play on them. I have bought an NV5s and can hear the differences of course. But I do so enjoy playing an instrument that is in tune. I imagine that playing a really well tuned grand in top order, tuned to meet orchestral standards is something else - but how many of us get to play such an instrument anyway. And … having just bought Igor Levits Beethoven sonatas, the first thing I noticed was the post-editing reverb etc… so even here digital plays its part. I really think there is an awful lot of snobbism in the piano world, particularly when discussing instruments - many from those of us at an amateur performance level.
a digital piano is based on a grand piano and a upright sound totally different than a grand piano. so..
I do not recommend NV 5S. Extremely hard keyboard. Works artificially.
Hopefully my experience will be more favorable
Jesus, the hybrid didn't even come close. The accoustic is classically perfect
Yeah, it's just a question of physics. An acoustic has a felt hammer strike a metal string, which vibrates a bunch of wood. A digital triggers a sensor, which sets off a bunch of math inside of a computer, which then sends a precise electrical signal to a speaker cone, which vibrates very quickly back and forth. It's just ALWAYS going to sound a little different than an acoustic! It's just physics.
That said, the Kawai hybrids tend to be ranked highest amongst digital hybrids among discerning players and professionals.
Played it, hate it.
What pianos do you generally prefer? --Drew, 👪🎹
Hallo Max. Ich möchte heute nur einmal Danke sagen für deine / eure tollen Videos!!! Erstens spielst du wunderbar Piano! Zweitens kenne ich kaum jemanden der so gut sowohl Digitale- als auch akustische Pianos so professionell und ausführlich vorstellt! Und drittens spielst du die digitalen Pianos nicht nur über Kabel sondern auch mit dem Mikrofon abgenommen so das der Zuhörer auch einen Eindruck vom Raumklang bekommt! Und das finde ich Herausragend gut! Der Internal Digital Sound klingt bei sehr sehr vielen Digital Pianos hervorragend, aber oft über die Lautsprecher nicht annähernd so gut… Also noch einmal: Einen herzlichen Dank für eure Arbeit und die damit verbundenen tollen Konzerte!!! 🙏🙏🙏
Hallo Roland! Danke für den netten Kommentar! Ich versuche mein Bestes, um in diesen Videos eine andere, nützliche musikalische Perspektive anzubieten, um Pianisten bei der Auswahl des richtigen Klaviers zu helfen! Schön, dass es dir gefallen hat! Danke fürs Zuschauen! -Max