As a diesel fan boy & truck driver I actually love my new Chevy Bolt. It’s definitely a change in mindset. I have noticed the ICE vehicle users at work have expressed interest. So I’ve just been sharing my experience & let them come to the conclusion on their own rather than anyone trying to convince them.
So much this. I still own and love my 05 F350 Diesel, and I don't see it going away any time soon (I need it to tow my toy hauler). But my daily driver is an F150 Lightning Platinum. And being that I am decidedly NOT a left-leaning hippie liberal tree hugger type, my circle of right-leaning friends are much more willing to openly discuss my choice to drive an EV without the usual environment arguments. I have converted most of my friends from kneejerk anti-ev to being at least open to the idea. Several have bought Tesla's as a result. And every single one of them loves their EV. One of the most valuable things the EV community can learn is to know your audience. Read the room. Certain aspects of EV ownership are universal. We should focus on those.
@@rp9674: Same. Too many people asking the questions about charging, range, etc, but they don’t listen to the answers. And the super majority of the “EVs can’t work for me” arguments that are based on range tend to be rooted in hypotheticals more than real-world usage.
@@jacobcarlson4010 omfg yes. What if: Med emergency - call an ambulance Power goes out - I rarely come home empty, not going to work in the dark. etc. An inquisitive mind would wonder: EVs don't work but I see them everywhere in southern california, what am I missing
One of the glaring issues with fast charging that I've found in the Midwest US is there are so many different charging companies and everyone has their own app with often a lack of credit card readers. We need standization and just regular credit card readers as an option. I know there are fees when you use a credit card... Offer that to people so when your app is broken , at least people won't find themselves stranded. Rates and charge time as to how and what you are charged from are all over the place. On the plus side, there are a lot of new chargers going in which I'm thankful for which was not the case a few years prior. Most of my charging is done at home so these are secondary concerns for me normally. That said, if we want the widest adoption, we need to do better and to develop either a Google/Apple pay or credit card option for these chargers. My folks are never going to download 20 apps to make this change.
In California, landlords and HOAs are required to accept any tenant's written request to install charging equipment for their own use. The law also states that tenants must pay additional electrical costs, which may be added to their rent.
My nearest public charge (which I never use because I charge at home) is run by the local city council and is typically 30p/kwh cheaper than the IONITY / Gridserve networks. It’s also co-located with the park’n’ride into the city center. Smart move, York!
What chargers in York!!! Time to have another look. They used to be PodPoint and cost a fortune when they worked. I do not see what you do on zap-map. Either 7KW chargers, or a bit faster but definitely not subsidised, or just not showing. I will swing by when in the area but not holding my breath.
Here's a tip, if you install a 240 volt outlet for your charge connection, spend the extra money and get the heavy duty commercial outlet. (Hubble) The cheaper ones make more heat, thus dropping efficiency.
And the cheaper ones are likely to fail earlier too, especially if you have any reason to occasionally unplug the charger. The commercial grade ones are worth the price, even if just for peace of mind, not having to worry about a cheapo receptacle overheating and starting a fire.
5:25 You are so right, recently I visited San Diego for about a week and the cost of charging varied by over a factor of four based on time of day and location. I never took advantage of the midnight to 4 AM charging rates of below $0.20/kwh which rivaled my home charging rates back in Alabama of around 11 or 12 cents per kwh. My actual experience varied from 26 cents per kwh (from 4am to 11am at that one) to over 50 cents per kwh at other chargers. On the road I paid anywhere from $0.31/kwh to over $0.40/kwh. At superchargers in Alabama (which I use very rarely, as I charge at home most of the time) I typically pay 35 to 37 cents for each kwh.
Yeah, I think we in San Diego have the highest electricity rates in the continental U.S. Which probably explain why SDG&E seems very supportive of EVs.
@@larrywest42 We still get screwed by PG&E IN Norcal. Here's our rates. I'm on the R-1 plan. Look what they charge on the EV-B plan. Pay 72 cents a kwh in the summer if you are stuck recharging between 2 and 9PM for some reason. Here's the link to their rates: www.pge.com/content/dam/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf
What really matters, above all else, is to charge at home whenever possible. As long as you are able to do that, road trips that require public charging tend to be infrequent enough that cost doesn't really matter all that much. And even for road trips, often the simplest and most important way to save money on charging is still to leverage that home charging as much as you can. Simply leaving home with a full battery and arrive back home with a near empty battery can make a big difference on cost, even if home charging covers only the first 200 miles of an 800-mile-long trip. Looking for free outlets to plug into when spending the night at an AirBnb can be another big money-saver.
Unless I missed it, I didn't see mention of charging at Hotels, usually for free if you are staying the night. I use the Plug Share ap to find Hotels where I am going that have Lvl 1/2 chargers. It really helps on a road trip if you can charge in the evening or overnight even if during the day you are using paid Fast Chargers on the road. I went on an 800 mile road trip from Seattle to Newport Oregon on the coast, stayed at 3 hotels, and didn't have to pay anything to charge.
Hey great advice! Thanks for this. We did a trip from Arkansas to Texas and found there were very different charge prices and needed this info to better prepare for a trip.
Thanks again, great content. The solar + charger path is the least expensive. Not only least expensive, but avoids the incremental losses of inflation also!! It was **your electrons** that went into the EV, so a price increase at the regional or corporate level has little or no impact on your real costs.
In the UK Octopus don’t penalise for on peak if you have off peak, so if you have battery storage you can charge at 7.5p and discharge at peak instead of paying 32p. Further to that one is better off exporting excess @ 15p rather than using excess to charge your EV for 2 reasons, 1 you can charge the EV off peak at 7.5p and 2 even if you have 20kW of battery charging the car will run down the battery very quickly if the sun goes away leaving you exposed to on peak charges. I am talking about the UK where the only thing that is predictable about the weather is the unpredictability. The US does seem to be much more expensive than the UK. It used to be that if it was a $ in US the same item was £ in the UK. Now it seems the other way round especially when it involves skilled operatives
I’m in the UK and was able to switch to an overnight EV tariff with my energy supplier. I charge my car, home battery, heat the water tank and run the dishwasher at over night rate, which is cheaper than the feed-in-tariff I get for selling solar to the grid during the day. Previously I had done a lot of juggling to charge my car etc off solar to avoid sending surplus to the grid, but now it’s a no brainer to charge overnight and feed the grid during the day
Which only goes to highlight the inequity between home owners with driveway charging and renters/apartment dwellers who have no access to home charging or ability to install solar panels or house batteries.
@MandyFlame you hit the right issue. Making home charging more available to all types of people (renters, apartment and condo dwellers) is more important than increasing smart charger access. Most EV chargers charge ay home which is the cheapest and most efficient way. Most vehicle use isn't on long cross country drives.
Great through coverage of this charged topic. As the price of batteries drops, installing energy storage at home could save money if there are time of day tariffs in your utility region. Adding solar would lock in your utility rates, with the eventuality of getting nearly free energy in future (when system is paid off). Great options for those that can plan long-term.
I would love solar, and I do have a little house, but I have a lot of shade from massive oak trees. Not only would removing them be many thousands of dollars and destroy wildlife habitat to boot(not that everyone cares about that,) but I still would be impacted some by shade from neighbors' trees on either side, whose trees I have no legal right to cut down, even if I had the money. I have a 2017 Kia Soul ev, and I rarely rapid charge. I charge at home through my utility rom 240v outlet. Cost in very modest. We also have some destination chargers around town, almost all of them free to use, so I utilize those whenever my situation permits. Someday I suspect they will no longer be cometely free. Ultimately, solar power is the way to go, and I very much hope my current reservation of a base model aptera results in me getting the chance to purchase one in another 2 or 3 years. Fingers crossed. THAT is an energy- efficient vehicle!
Interestingly where we live (suburban Los Angeles County) our most expensive (tier 3) power is actually somewhat more expensive than most public L2 chargers. So in the summer we will use public chargers when they are available mainly to save money even though we do most (virtually all in the winter) of our charging at home.
Solar charges our EVs at home. Some charger apps allow you to change charging current (rate). During a break at work, I see what the solar is doing and set charging rate to allow our home battery and car to charge in tandem and maximize our value while minimizing our grid reliance. We installed solar before we had an EV, but sized the system with an estimate of the additional energy they would require. (EV charging uses about 1/3 of our total household electricity consumption.)
Electric charging will simply get more expensive. Fast charging is only artificially limited to be roughly equivalent to price per range with gasoline vehicles and there's the issue of the road tax. Already, the Alberta (a province in Canada) has announced an annual tax for registration of EV's to cover the lack of a road tax on the "fuel" with also the excuse that EV's are alleged to be heavier due to batteries, hence allegedly damages the roads more which brings to mind that as battery technology advances or inductive, beamed or pantograph power becomes available, would such taxes be reduced... Pretty much everything says that charging prices will be pushed up as much as the public will bear, especially once the need to be competitive with ICE vehicles are no longer seen as a requirement by the businesses and governments involved.
This is a really detailed video, covering so much information...maybe it could be structured as telling the simple tips first, without too many caveats/ifs/and/buts, then follow with a "stick around for the fully detailed version in the second half". With so many normies joining the EV ranks I think starting with a simple "drive 65 mph or less, accelerate gently, charge at home as much as you can, or ask your boss if you can charge at work" message is easy to understand and remember.
I would like to add that electrify America station’s aren’t charging customers the same way, the local electrify America I go to charges by time used which is lot more expensive.
On at home charging, having and using a battery if you have time of use plan or the 'free when in excess' production plan can be helpful. We are getting solar and battery so we an use our solar instead of selling/giving it to the power company. There are also some power controllers that have 'charge from solar' for charging 'extra' from solar on your home only.
I've had a traditional UK 'economy 7' tariff giving 7 hours of 1/2 price electrons for many years. Cannot get a designed EV tariff due to 100 year old house electrics/consumer unit placement. I've had a rewire but cannot get a smart meter - 'computer says NO'. Still my 10A 3-pin granny charger works just fine for my low daily use.
Another tip is that many rural charging sites may not have internet access or mobile phone coverage, so download those apps before you leave on that long trip; rather than loading at the site when you get there. Of course this wouldn't be a problem is every charging site in rural or signal problem areas also included a wi-fi hotspot!
Another quick rule of thumb to test whether the socket and the circuit is in good condition is to start charging, let it charge for about an hour, then feel around the socket, the plug, nearby cabling, etc to see if anything is hot. Do the same thing at the breaker box. Do the same thing at the nozzle where it goes into the vehicle. Don't touch any live bare wires! At most things should just be mildly warm. If a plug or socket is hot, that's a major problem and needs to be rectified immediately. For me saving on charging means charging at home as much as possible. I have only very rarely needed to use a Fast DC charger but when I have... I didn't actually care what I was being charged because of the rarity of use! Once coming back from a trip I stopped at an EA charger which was not accepting my EA card (or anyone else's). No biggy, I just put it on my credit card and was done charging before anyone else managed to get EA tech support to give them their free session. And I only put in what I need at the Fast DC stop to get to my destination with decent margin. No need to throw money away! -- Other basic savings you can achieve when charging at home... charge more slowly. If charging at 24A is plenty good enough, then do that instead of charging at 32A or 40A. You can save up to roughly 5% by charging more slowly. Though don't go overboard if you live in a cold weather climate since the vehicle may begin heating the battery while charging below around 40F... so shorter + faster charging is better in that case. Why? Power transmitted is (I * V), but circuit and cable losses are (I * I * R). Charging at half the current is half the power and will take twice as long, but circuit and cable losses are cut to 1/4th of what they were before. Including the time element, halving the current cuts your losses in half. Also, charging at a lower current puts less strain on the vehicle's built-in AC charger, which means it will last longer. -- Now personally speaking, I don't go overboard. I do have home solar, and I do try to charge my vehicle coincident with the sun, but when I plug in I expect the vehicle to charge at a specific rate so I don't try to match the solar or anything like that. I get my charging in outside of the peak periods and let the solar take some off the top, and that's good enough for me. -Matt
Really appreciate this guidance, Nikki. I would like to see off peak or time of use tariffs here. There's a pilot project for EV time of use charging here but you need to grant them access to your car telematics and your EVSE and they don't support my EVSE so that's too many nopes for me.
Fantastic. So many details, I could barely keep up and probably won't be able to remember everything! I especially appreciate that you started with the discussion of driving habits. That's a whole video on its own, it's not just how one uses the throttle pedal, but also which settings such as regen and throttle mapping one uses, how the climate control is used, etc., but bottom line is that in my household, there is routinely as much as a 10-20% difference in energy consumption depending on who's driving. FWIW, solar has a lot of variance in how or even whether it affects costs. I am fortunate enough to live in one of the lowest-cost states for electricity -- we pay around 11 cents/kWh -- so I make huge bank just charging at home, as suggested. But solar doesn't help me much, because I was lucky enough to be able to install solar several years ago when there were very nice inducements: not only do I get straight 1-for-1 net metering with banking of excess production, I also get a production credit roughly double the actual cost of electricity, whether that production is excess or not. So solar just offsets my whole energy consumption, and I don't have to worry about whether I'm using it to charge the car, run the furnace (heat pump), turn on the lights, etc. But yeah, for other people, they may not get full credit on production, may have different billing rates at different times, may have fewer incentive programs helping with install cost, etc.
Nice job with the related costs in charging via the different methods available, usually pay 49c/kWh however the local mall charges 69c/kWh, I do try and take advantage of the local Volta level 2 stations which are free but limited to 2hrs/day which is understandable. Just got notified my OpenEVSE station (Kit) is on the way so I should have it by the weekend, only had one quote so far for installation by the same company that installed my Solar PV system and Battery which seems a little excessive to me, so waiting for some more quotes to come in. I would love to see a segment on the home automation and PV integration. I'm trying to think of ways to ensure that my home battery of 18kWh is charged before diverting excess energy to the EVSE during the day as I work from home so the vehicle can be plugged in to take advantage of the solar PV. Thanks again for helping me move to an electric vehicle and home solar system always enjoy the content.
Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky and Louisiana are all states I know charge you not by the kilowatt but instead by time. Which unfortunately for me when The travel is primarily where I visit.
Great video, nearly all of our charging is done at home for our two EV’s so the TOU pricing is all I can rely on to keep costs down some. @ .23 kWh with SCE I can’t really get any lower (this rate is with my Medical Baseline discount).
I really hope ,that people who are think of switching to EVs , research how and where to charge up. If you own a house its easy, just buy a level 2 charger and either DIY it or get electrician to set it up
If you have an average, or below-average, commute: even L1 charging will suffice. Really sucks for apartment dwellers right now though. At my last apartment management refused to work with me to find out how much power I could safely draw in the paid visitors parking (underground heated garage had no individual block heater outlets). Electrical code allows up to 12 outlets on a circuit!
I save money on electricity my using my bicycle as a form of transportation. Not only do I save money on electricity, but I also don't need to spend money on joining a gym for exercising and health. As always good videos and content.
Home charging provides by far the greatest cost saving. Driving more slowly and joining DCFC networks may help too, but if you can't charge at home or if you must use public DCFC routinely for other reasons, an EV may not be for you at this point. Public rates vary a lot, and you can save by shopping around (as you can with gasoline), but public DCFC is not much less expensive than gasoline in my experience, and pumping gas is more convenient. There's no sense in denying it. We shouldn't pretend that EVs are for everyone at this point. They work well for many people who don't drive them yet. EV makers have a large, untapped market without misleading anyone who might be disappointed by existing EVs and charging infrastructure. EVGo's plug and charge feature makes it my favorite network, and its pricing is very competitive. Its stations often are limited to 50 kW, but I drive a Bolt, so the rate is not a problem for me, and if other drivers avoid the stations for this reason, so much the better for me. My residential electricity rate may be lower than average, but I investigated rooftop solar last summer, and it wouldn't have saved me anything over power from the grid, not for the first ten years or so anyway. It would cost me more to charge my EV from rooftop solar, not less, and I could only charge when the sun shines while I usually charge at night now, and I usually drive during the day. A battery bank would have made the solar energy even more expensive, and charging an EV battery from a battery bank charged by solar panels seems very inefficient anyway.
I'm stuck with Black Hills. They suck. They cap how much solar I can put on my roof. I have waited for months already to get that limit from them so I can actually start getting the panels installed. They charge nearly double per kWh what Xcel up in Denver charges. Why did we ever let natural monopolies become profit-driven? Nothing with inelastic demand, or a natural monopoly, should ever be for-profit. It's far too easy to game the system.
I have plenty of solar, but that is not the lowest cost electricity for me. The opportunity cost for charging on solar varies, but is a little over $.03/kWh, while there is a DCFC about a mile or two from home that is completely free.
If it can make you feel any better, I was charged $0.58/kwh yesterday at a public charging station. I am an apartment dweller and home ownership is not an option for me. 😎
I'm very lucky at the moment, riding in what feels like this golden age of EV adaption in my town. I live in a suburb of Vancouver, Canada and there are 6 (SIX) free public level 2 chargers and 1 free public level 3 charger, including chademo (the kind with the battery, as mentioned in the video, so it's very fast in the morning, and slower later on when folks have drained the battery). Free! Free public charging! I don't know how long it'll last, but I'm taking advantage of it!
I live next to a seasonal tourist destination. With exceptions I can count on one hand (when counting actual charge points) all public charging is associated with seasonal businesses and is shut down during the off season. Also ALL local public chargers are level 1 or 2. There are zero local fast chargers. Note that local means within a 1.5-2 hour round trip drive. There are eight Tesla fast charging points that 1.5 to 2 hour drive away. So shopping around for the cheapest charging station is not an option here. Also we do not have time of day based home electric rates.We pay about $0.28 per kilowatt-hour at all times. Yes I have a roof top solar array, but in winter it never produces much power due to low sun angles, overcast days and, of course, snow. Those are down sides of living in Maine. As a consequence, even the most efficient electric car cots about the same for electrons a my Subaru Forester when charged at home. A PHEV makes sense here, but a pure electric vehicle really doesn't make economic sense. Also, our power comes predominantly from fossil fuel and nuclear generating stations. I prefer to simply drive as little as possible. I have driven my nine year old Subaru 21,000 miles or about 2,350 miles (~4,000 km) per year. I do intend to replace the Subaru with an EV when I get to 100,000 miles (in approximately 33 years assuming I am still alive and driving).
Ha, my nine year Crosstrek has 140,000 miles, but I live out West and do many roadtrips to family in the Midwest. Many years left in him, and hope he hangs on until Aptera is ready for me.
I decided to charge my Nissan Leaf to 80% at work for free during the day and I stopped charging at home. On the weekend, I started charging at free chargers or at outlets. I'll see if this helps me lower my electric bill on my house.
And yes I am aware about the Pay Monthly deals they have at the moment but for me and my soon to be ordered bZ4X pay as you go works out perfectly for me as I always do this for my house power. And it’s crazy on how much it costs at times with ESB
I have been driving EVs for three years now and have never used a DC charger. I am at home during the day and during summer I charge from solar with a Zappi charger. In the low-sun months I have to use grid charging which costs me about 26 cents per kWh which gives me about 6 km range.
Out of the many financail investment decisions I have made is putting solar on the roof about 12 years ago. My overall electric useage is high (central air, EV cars, etc) but the system was paid off years ago. Thus, I am receiving free juice now. One of the best decisions I've ever made ! Love it....
I’m going to assume it was THAT gas station owner that was viral for no good reason. I heard about that for years but this is the first time I’m hearing it was basically fake.
I'm interested in you doing a feature on solar charging. I have solar from Sunrun and a level-2 EVSE but it's not capable of prioritizing solar to the car. Thx
I save money by charging at home in BC Canada using BC Hydro step 2 rate of 16 CENTS Canadian per kilowatt The Step 1 rate is as low as 11 Canadian cents per kilowatt. - On trips I use the TESLA Superchargers with my FREE for lifetime 2017 Tesla model S 90D. Best car i ever owned. If I purchase a NEW TESLA Model S, X, Y, or 3 before the end of MARCH 2024 I can transfer that FREE Lifetime supercharging to the NEW TESLA. Not as great a deal as it sounds because only 7% of my 2023 charging was done at a TESLA Supercharger. On a trip to Germany in 2023 the rented Tesla model Y was charged 41 EURO CENTS per kilowatt which was the same as 62 Canadian cents per kilowatt. Still much cheaper than Benzine (Gasoline) which costed around $2.20 Canadian.
my family and friends sold our ev and moved back to ice car because ev charging 3 times more than petrol and inconvenience of long charging wait times and battery degradation each year reducing range. ugly cables everywhere diesel fan boy & truck driver Chevy Bolt. It’s definitely a change in mindset. ICE vehicle users at work public charge charge at homecity counci IONITY / Gridserve networks. park’n’ride into the city center. York!
As a diesel fan boy & truck driver I actually love my new Chevy Bolt. It’s definitely a change in mindset. I have noticed the ICE vehicle users at work have expressed interest. So I’ve just been sharing my experience & let them come to the conclusion on their own rather than anyone trying to convince them.
I wish that I had bought a bolt as the second car...
So much this. I still own and love my 05 F350 Diesel, and I don't see it going away any time soon (I need it to tow my toy hauler). But my daily driver is an F150 Lightning Platinum. And being that I am decidedly NOT a left-leaning hippie liberal tree hugger type, my circle of right-leaning friends are much more willing to openly discuss my choice to drive an EV without the usual environment arguments. I have converted most of my friends from kneejerk anti-ev to being at least open to the idea. Several have bought Tesla's as a result. And every single one of them loves their EV. One of the most valuable things the EV community can learn is to know your audience. Read the room. Certain aspects of EV ownership are universal. We should focus on those.
I've mostly given up tying to explain, but I won't stay quiet for anti EV disinfo
@@rp9674: Same. Too many people asking the questions about charging, range, etc, but they don’t listen to the answers. And the super majority of the “EVs can’t work for me” arguments that are based on range tend to be rooted in hypotheticals more than real-world usage.
@@jacobcarlson4010 omfg yes. What if:
Med emergency - call an ambulance
Power goes out - I rarely come home empty, not going to work in the dark.
etc.
An inquisitive mind would wonder: EVs don't work but I see them everywhere in southern california, what am I missing
One of the glaring issues with fast charging that I've found in the Midwest US is there are so many different charging companies and everyone has their own app with often a lack of credit card readers. We need standization and just regular credit card readers as an option. I know there are fees when you use a credit card... Offer that to people so when your app is broken , at least people won't find themselves stranded. Rates and charge time as to how and what you are charged from are all over the place. On the plus side, there are a lot of new chargers going in which I'm thankful for which was not the case a few years prior. Most of my charging is done at home so these are secondary concerns for me normally. That said, if we want the widest adoption, we need to do better and to develop either a Google/Apple pay or credit card option for these chargers. My folks are never going to download 20 apps to make this change.
In California, landlords and HOAs are required to accept any tenant's written request to install charging equipment for their own use. The law also states that tenants must pay additional electrical costs, which may be added to their rent.
My nearest public charge (which I never use because I charge at home) is run by the local city council and is typically 30p/kwh cheaper than the IONITY / Gridserve networks. It’s also co-located with the park’n’ride into the city center. Smart move, York!
What chargers in York!!! Time to have another look. They used to be PodPoint and cost a fortune when they worked. I do not see what you do on zap-map. Either 7KW chargers, or a bit faster but definitely not subsidised, or just not showing. I will swing by when in the area but not holding my breath.
@@mbak7801 Poppleton hyper hub. You’re right though that prices have shot up. Was only 25p a year ago, then went to 45p. Now Zapmap is showing 69p.
@@mbak7801 Monks Cross hyper hub is 59p/kwh which is about 20~25p cheaper than most other places. 150kw chargers.
Here's a tip, if you install a 240 volt outlet for your charge connection, spend the extra money and get the heavy duty commercial outlet. (Hubble) The cheaper ones make more heat, thus dropping efficiency.
And the cheaper ones are likely to fail earlier too, especially if you have any reason to occasionally unplug the charger.
The commercial grade ones are worth the price, even if just for peace of mind, not having to worry about a cheapo receptacle overheating and starting a fire.
5:25 You are so right, recently I visited San Diego for about a week and the cost of charging varied by over a factor of four based on time of day and location. I never took advantage of the midnight to 4 AM charging rates of below $0.20/kwh which rivaled my home charging rates back in Alabama of around 11 or 12 cents per kwh. My actual experience varied from 26 cents per kwh (from 4am to 11am at that one) to over 50 cents per kwh at other chargers. On the road I paid anywhere from $0.31/kwh to over $0.40/kwh. At superchargers in Alabama (which I use very rarely, as I charge at home most of the time) I typically pay 35 to 37 cents for each kwh.
Yeah, I think we in San Diego have the highest electricity rates in the continental U.S.
Which probably explain why SDG&E seems very supportive of EVs.
@@larrywest42 We still get screwed by PG&E IN Norcal. Here's our rates. I'm on the R-1 plan. Look what they charge on the EV-B plan. Pay 72 cents a kwh in the summer if you are stuck recharging between 2 and 9PM for some reason. Here's the link to their rates:
www.pge.com/content/dam/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf
What really matters, above all else, is to charge at home whenever possible. As long as you are able to do that, road trips that require public charging tend to be infrequent enough that cost doesn't really matter all that much. And even for road trips, often the simplest and most important way to save money on charging is still to leverage that home charging as much as you can. Simply leaving home with a full battery and arrive back home with a near empty battery can make a big difference on cost, even if home charging covers only the first 200 miles of an 800-mile-long trip. Looking for free outlets to plug into when spending the night at an AirBnb can be another big money-saver.
Unless I missed it, I didn't see mention of charging at Hotels, usually for free if you are staying the night. I use the Plug Share ap to find Hotels where I am going that have Lvl 1/2 chargers. It really helps on a road trip if you can charge in the evening or overnight even if during the day you are using paid Fast Chargers on the road. I went on an 800 mile road trip from Seattle to Newport Oregon on the coast, stayed at 3 hotels, and didn't have to pay anything to charge.
wish I could get a solar setup for my garage to charge mine
Hey Nikki! Great topic, well covered. Yes I'd like you to report on "Home Automation and solar charging" if you are up to do it.Keep Evolving!!!
Hey great advice! Thanks for this. We did a trip from Arkansas to Texas and found there were very different charge prices and needed this info to better prepare for a trip.
Nicely done, and I appreciate your having adroitly avoided "110v" and "220v" ;)
Thanks again, great content. The solar + charger path is the least expensive. Not only least expensive, but avoids the incremental losses of inflation also!! It was **your electrons** that went into the EV, so a price increase at the regional or corporate level has little or no impact on your real costs.
So sorry to hear about your Lightning accident! 😢
In the UK Octopus don’t penalise for on peak if you have off peak, so if you have battery storage you can charge at 7.5p and discharge at peak instead of paying 32p. Further to that one is better off exporting excess @ 15p rather than using excess to charge your EV for 2 reasons, 1 you can charge the EV off peak at 7.5p and 2 even if you have 20kW of battery charging the car will run down the battery very quickly if the sun goes away leaving you exposed to on peak charges. I am talking about the UK where the only thing that is predictable about the weather is the unpredictability. The US does seem to be much more expensive than the UK. It used to be that if it was a $ in US the same item was £ in the UK. Now it seems the other way round especially when it involves skilled operatives
I’m in the UK and was able to switch to an overnight EV tariff with my energy supplier. I charge my car, home battery, heat the water tank and run the dishwasher at over night rate, which is cheaper than the feed-in-tariff I get for selling solar to the grid during the day. Previously I had done a lot of juggling to charge my car etc off solar to avoid sending surplus to the grid, but now it’s a no brainer to charge overnight and feed the grid during the day
Which only goes to highlight the inequity between home owners with driveway charging and renters/apartment dwellers who have no access to home charging or ability to install solar panels or house batteries.
@MandyFlame you hit the right issue. Making home charging more available to all types of people (renters, apartment and condo dwellers) is more important than increasing smart charger access. Most EV chargers charge ay home which is the cheapest and most efficient way. Most vehicle use isn't on long cross country drives.
Great through coverage of this charged topic.
As the price of batteries drops, installing energy storage at home could save money if there are time of day tariffs in your utility region. Adding solar would lock in your utility rates, with the eventuality of getting nearly free energy in future (when system is paid off). Great options for those that can plan long-term.
I would love solar, and I do have a little house, but I have a lot of shade from massive oak trees. Not only would removing them be many thousands of dollars and destroy wildlife habitat to boot(not that everyone cares about that,) but I still would be impacted some by shade from neighbors' trees on either side, whose trees I have no legal right to cut down, even if I had the money.
I have a 2017 Kia Soul ev, and I rarely rapid charge. I charge at home through my utility rom 240v outlet. Cost in very modest. We also have some destination chargers around town, almost all of them free to use, so I utilize those whenever my situation permits. Someday I suspect they will no longer be cometely free.
Ultimately, solar power is the way to go, and I very much hope my current reservation of a base model aptera results in me getting the chance to purchase one in another 2 or 3 years. Fingers crossed.
THAT is an energy- efficient vehicle!
Interestingly where we live (suburban Los Angeles County) our most expensive (tier 3) power is actually somewhat more expensive than most public L2 chargers. So in the summer we will use public chargers when they are available mainly to save money even though we do most (virtually all in the winter) of our charging at home.
Solar charges our EVs at home. Some charger apps allow you to change charging current (rate). During a break at work, I see what the solar is doing and set charging rate to allow our home battery and car to charge in tandem and maximize our value while minimizing our grid reliance. We installed solar before we had an EV, but sized the system with an estimate of the additional energy they would require. (EV charging uses about 1/3 of our total household electricity consumption.)
Electric charging will simply get more expensive. Fast charging is only artificially limited to be roughly equivalent to price per range with gasoline vehicles and there's the issue of the road tax. Already, the Alberta (a province in Canada) has announced an annual tax for registration of EV's to cover the lack of a road tax on the "fuel" with also the excuse that EV's are alleged to be heavier due to batteries, hence allegedly damages the roads more which brings to mind that as battery technology advances or inductive, beamed or pantograph power becomes available, would such taxes be reduced... Pretty much everything says that charging prices will be pushed up as much as the public will bear, especially once the need to be competitive with ICE vehicles are no longer seen as a requirement by the businesses and governments involved.
This is a really detailed video, covering so much information...maybe it could be structured as telling the simple tips first, without too many caveats/ifs/and/buts, then follow with a "stick around for the fully detailed version in the second half". With so many normies joining the EV ranks I think starting with a simple "drive 65 mph or less, accelerate gently, charge at home as much as you can, or ask your boss if you can charge at work" message is easy to understand and remember.
I would like to add that electrify America station’s aren’t charging customers the same way, the local electrify America I go to charges by time used which is lot more expensive.
Thanks
On at home charging, having and using a battery if you have time of use plan or the 'free when in excess' production plan can be helpful. We are getting solar and battery so we an use our solar instead of selling/giving it to the power company. There are also some power controllers that have 'charge from solar' for charging 'extra' from solar on your home only.
I've had a traditional UK 'economy 7' tariff giving 7 hours of 1/2 price electrons for many years. Cannot get a designed EV tariff due to 100 year old house electrics/consumer unit placement. I've had a rewire but cannot get a smart meter - 'computer says NO'.
Still my 10A 3-pin granny charger works just fine for my low daily use.
Loved the references and jokes😆
Another tip is that many rural charging sites may not have internet access or mobile phone coverage, so download those apps before you leave on that long trip; rather than loading at the site when you get there. Of course this wouldn't be a problem is every charging site in rural or signal problem areas also included a wi-fi hotspot!
Another quick rule of thumb to test whether the socket and the circuit is in good condition is to start charging, let it charge for about an hour, then feel around the socket, the plug, nearby cabling, etc to see if anything is hot. Do the same thing at the breaker box. Do the same thing at the nozzle where it goes into the vehicle. Don't touch any live bare wires! At most things should just be mildly warm. If a plug or socket is hot, that's a major problem and needs to be rectified immediately.
For me saving on charging means charging at home as much as possible. I have only very rarely needed to use a Fast DC charger but when I have... I didn't actually care what I was being charged because of the rarity of use! Once coming back from a trip I stopped at an EA charger which was not accepting my EA card (or anyone else's). No biggy, I just put it on my credit card and was done charging before anyone else managed to get EA tech support to give them their free session. And I only put in what I need at the Fast DC stop to get to my destination with decent margin. No need to throw money away!
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Other basic savings you can achieve when charging at home... charge more slowly. If charging at 24A is plenty good enough, then do that instead of charging at 32A or 40A. You can save up to roughly 5% by charging more slowly. Though don't go overboard if you live in a cold weather climate since the vehicle may begin heating the battery while charging below around 40F... so shorter + faster charging is better in that case.
Why? Power transmitted is (I * V), but circuit and cable losses are (I * I * R). Charging at half the current is half the power and will take twice as long, but circuit and cable losses are cut to 1/4th of what they were before. Including the time element, halving the current cuts your losses in half. Also, charging at a lower current puts less strain on the vehicle's built-in AC charger, which means it will last longer.
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Now personally speaking, I don't go overboard. I do have home solar, and I do try to charge my vehicle coincident with the sun, but when I plug in I expect the vehicle to charge at a specific rate so I don't try to match the solar or anything like that. I get my charging in outside of the peak periods and let the solar take some off the top, and that's good enough for me.
-Matt
Really appreciate this guidance, Nikki. I would like to see off peak or time of use tariffs here. There's a pilot project for EV time of use charging here but you need to grant them access to your car telematics and your EVSE and they don't support my EVSE so that's too many nopes for me.
Fantastic. So many details, I could barely keep up and probably won't be able to remember everything!
I especially appreciate that you started with the discussion of driving habits. That's a whole video on its own, it's not just how one uses the throttle pedal, but also which settings such as regen and throttle mapping one uses, how the climate control is used, etc., but bottom line is that in my household, there is routinely as much as a 10-20% difference in energy consumption depending on who's driving.
FWIW, solar has a lot of variance in how or even whether it affects costs. I am fortunate enough to live in one of the lowest-cost states for electricity -- we pay around 11 cents/kWh -- so I make huge bank just charging at home, as suggested. But solar doesn't help me much, because I was lucky enough to be able to install solar several years ago when there were very nice inducements: not only do I get straight 1-for-1 net metering with banking of excess production, I also get a production credit roughly double the actual cost of electricity, whether that production is excess or not. So solar just offsets my whole energy consumption, and I don't have to worry about whether I'm using it to charge the car, run the furnace (heat pump), turn on the lights, etc.
But yeah, for other people, they may not get full credit on production, may have different billing rates at different times, may have fewer incentive programs helping with install cost, etc.
Nice job with the related costs in charging via the different methods available, usually pay 49c/kWh however the local mall charges 69c/kWh, I do try and take advantage of the local Volta level 2 stations which are free but limited to 2hrs/day which is understandable. Just got notified my OpenEVSE station (Kit) is on the way so I should have it by the weekend, only had one quote so far for installation by the same company that installed my Solar PV system and Battery which seems a little excessive to me, so waiting for some more quotes to come in. I would love to see a segment on the home automation and PV integration. I'm trying to think of ways to ensure that my home battery of 18kWh is charged before diverting excess energy to the EVSE during the day as I work from home so the vehicle can be plugged in to take advantage of the solar PV. Thanks again for helping me move to an electric vehicle and home solar system always enjoy the content.
Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky and Louisiana are all states I know charge you not by the kilowatt but instead by time. Which unfortunately for me when The travel is primarily where I visit.
Great video, nearly all of our charging is done at home for our two EV’s so the TOU pricing is all I can rely on to keep costs down some. @ .23 kWh with SCE I can’t really get any lower (this rate is with my Medical Baseline discount).
I really hope ,that people who are think of switching to EVs , research how and where to charge up. If you own a house its easy, just buy a level 2 charger and either DIY it or get electrician to set it up
If you have an average, or below-average, commute: even L1 charging will suffice.
Really sucks for apartment dwellers right now though.
At my last apartment management refused to work with me to find out how much power I could safely draw in the paid visitors parking (underground heated garage had no individual block heater outlets). Electrical code allows up to 12 outlets on a circuit!
Takk!
I save money on electricity my using my bicycle as a form of transportation. Not only do I save money on electricity, but I also don't need to spend money on joining a gym for exercising and health. As always good videos and content.
Also you don't have to pay for registration and insurance, at least not yet.
Home charging provides by far the greatest cost saving. Driving more slowly and joining DCFC networks may help too, but if you can't charge at home or if you must use public DCFC routinely for other reasons, an EV may not be for you at this point. Public rates vary a lot, and you can save by shopping around (as you can with gasoline), but public DCFC is not much less expensive than gasoline in my experience, and pumping gas is more convenient. There's no sense in denying it.
We shouldn't pretend that EVs are for everyone at this point. They work well for many people who don't drive them yet. EV makers have a large, untapped market without misleading anyone who might be disappointed by existing EVs and charging infrastructure.
EVGo's plug and charge feature makes it my favorite network, and its pricing is very competitive. Its stations often are limited to 50 kW, but I drive a Bolt, so the rate is not a problem for me, and if other drivers avoid the stations for this reason, so much the better for me.
My residential electricity rate may be lower than average, but I investigated rooftop solar last summer, and it wouldn't have saved me anything over power from the grid, not for the first ten years or so anyway. It would cost me more to charge my EV from rooftop solar, not less, and I could only charge when the sun shines while I usually charge at night now, and I usually drive during the day. A battery bank would have made the solar energy even more expensive, and charging an EV battery from a battery bank charged by solar panels seems very inefficient anyway.
I'm stuck with Black Hills. They suck. They cap how much solar I can put on my roof. I have waited for months already to get that limit from them so I can actually start getting the panels installed. They charge nearly double per kWh what Xcel up in Denver charges.
Why did we ever let natural monopolies become profit-driven? Nothing with inelastic demand, or a natural monopoly, should ever be for-profit. It's far too easy to game the system.
I have plenty of solar, but that is not the lowest cost electricity for me. The opportunity cost for charging on solar varies, but is a little over $.03/kWh, while there is a DCFC about a mile or two from home that is completely free.
If it can make you feel any better, I was charged $0.58/kwh yesterday at a public charging station. I am an apartment dweller and home ownership is not an option for me. 😎
wow, you're lucky
@@jaredleemeaseouch!!
Wait! I live in Portland, where is that charging station that charges by the hour? PLEASE....???
Yes, same question. Thanks!
Thank you for this valuable information. I was familiar with some of it, but wouldn't have guessed the rest.
I'm very lucky at the moment, riding in what feels like this golden age of EV adaption in my town. I live in a suburb of Vancouver, Canada and there are 6 (SIX) free public level 2 chargers and 1 free public level 3 charger, including chademo (the kind with the battery, as mentioned in the video, so it's very fast in the morning, and slower later on when folks have drained the battery). Free! Free public charging!
I don't know how long it'll last, but I'm taking advantage of it!
Cheaper/free charging for using a business is such a win!
Yes, we do make tea at the side of the road.
I live next to a seasonal tourist destination. With exceptions I can count on one hand (when counting actual charge points) all public charging is associated with seasonal businesses and is shut down during the off season. Also ALL local public chargers are level 1 or 2. There are zero local fast chargers. Note that local means within a 1.5-2 hour round trip drive. There are eight Tesla fast charging points that 1.5 to 2 hour drive away. So shopping around for the cheapest charging station is not an option here. Also we do not have time of day based home electric rates.We pay about $0.28 per kilowatt-hour at all times. Yes I have a roof top solar array, but in winter it never produces much power due to low sun angles, overcast days and, of course, snow. Those are down sides of living in Maine. As a consequence, even the most efficient electric car cots about the same for electrons a my Subaru Forester when charged at home. A PHEV makes sense here, but a pure electric vehicle really doesn't make economic sense. Also, our power comes predominantly from fossil fuel and nuclear generating stations. I prefer to simply drive as little as possible. I have driven my nine year old Subaru 21,000 miles or about 2,350 miles (~4,000 km) per year. I do intend to replace the Subaru with an EV when I get to 100,000 miles (in approximately 33 years assuming I am still alive and driving).
Ha, my nine year Crosstrek has 140,000 miles, but I live out West and do many roadtrips to family in the Midwest. Many years left in him, and hope he hangs on until Aptera is ready for me.
I decided to charge my Nissan Leaf to 80% at work for free during the day and I stopped charging at home. On the weekend, I started charging at free chargers or at outlets. I'll see if this helps me lower my electric bill on my house.
hey which is the 24hr pay/hr fast charger in pdx? Thanks! Ive been using the pge "electric avenues" off hrs for $5 fill ups. ✌️
Yet here we are in the island of Ireland stuck with ESB who is making crazy prices at the monent
And yes I am aware about the Pay Monthly deals they have at the moment but for me and my soon to be ordered bZ4X pay as you go works out perfectly for me as I always do this for my house power.
And it’s crazy on how much it costs at times with ESB
And I will be getting a subscription to BP Pulse thanks to my leasing company for when i go over to England
17:22 making a nice cuppa is easier with V2L (I guess - I'm still waiting for our EV and, solar to be installed).
Great information!
I have been driving EVs for three years now and have never used a DC charger. I am at home during the day and during summer I charge from solar with a Zappi charger. In the low-sun months I have to use grid charging which costs me about 26 cents per kWh which gives me about 6 km range.
Would like to see a video about using excess solar to charge your EV, as you mentioned.
Out of the many financail investment decisions I have made is putting solar on the roof about 12 years ago. My overall electric useage is high (central air, EV cars, etc) but the system was paid off years ago. Thus, I am receiving free juice now. One of the best decisions I've ever made ! Love it....
I’m going to assume it was THAT gas station owner that was viral for no good reason. I heard about that for years but this is the first time I’m hearing it was basically fake.
It wasn’t fake so much as poor book keeping.
I'm interested in you doing a feature on solar charging. I have solar from Sunrun and a level-2 EVSE but it's not capable of prioritizing solar to the car. Thx
Doopie doopie request om the home charging subject please.
More nuclear geothermal and hydro will lead to stable pricing on clean energy.
I save money by charging at home in BC Canada using BC Hydro step 2 rate of 16 CENTS Canadian per kilowatt
The Step 1 rate is as low as 11 Canadian cents per kilowatt.
- On trips I use the TESLA Superchargers with my FREE for lifetime 2017 Tesla model S 90D. Best car i ever owned. If I purchase a NEW TESLA Model S, X, Y, or 3 before the end of MARCH 2024 I can transfer that FREE Lifetime supercharging to the NEW TESLA. Not as great a deal as it sounds because only 7% of my 2023 charging was done at a TESLA Supercharger. On a trip to Germany in 2023 the rented Tesla model Y was charged 41 EURO CENTS per kilowatt which was the same as 62 Canadian cents per kilowatt. Still much cheaper than Benzine (Gasoline) which costed around $2.20 Canadian.
Those in power, will never cease their behavior without oversight, regulation and investment.
👍
You DON'T NEED a switched outlet. It's redundant and unnecessary. That is all.
A properly switched outlet is far nicer and safer to use. - Nikki.
Don't discount the garlic sauce! It's worth a bundle! Ignoring the dating scene blunders that is.
Charging gets cheaper and that's great! Unfortunately their short and shitty ranges stays the same....
👍🏽☮️👍🏽⭐️
Really? Just go back to gasoline
Its easier.
my family and friends sold our ev and moved back to ice car because ev charging 3 times more than petrol and inconvenience of long charging wait times and battery degradation each year reducing range.
ugly cables everywhere
diesel fan boy & truck driver Chevy Bolt. It’s definitely a change in mindset. ICE vehicle users at work
public charge charge at homecity counci IONITY / Gridserve networks. park’n’ride into the city center. York!