I don’t even want to drive into NYC now cuz how expensive it is to get in and stay in. Tolls and congestion fees? Parking? But taking a train is not any cheaper… then sacrifices need to be made. But not by much.
I took the Northeast Corridor for 9 years while working in the city. I remember getting off the train for the last time when I found a new job. It was like when you were a kid on the last day of school and you ran wild out of joy. Commuting into NYC is hell on Earth.
How is it different from commuting into other cities - in the US or beyond - that are blessed with regional rail? Are Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Los Angeles, or Washington DC, are any easier to commute into?
When I used Penn Station, I always kept my eyes on the board. As soon as I saw which track appeared on the board, I bee-lined to that track without waiting for the fuckin' announcement.
Isn’t that what everyone in the world does? Here in the UK, I don’t think anyone even pays attention to the audio announcements (at least at major stations), not even to double-check that they’re on the right platform.
The most amazing thing is that this whole system works as good as it does. It was built over 100 years ago, has multiple problem, antiquated and well worn equipment and still works to a point. It definitely needs to be fixed. Actually it needed to be updated years ago, but at least it looks like progress is being made. Lets hope that politics does not interfere and delay or halt this project.
Guess that means how much better the country was 100 years ago to build somthing that still works with no matenience so long later we are living off the greatness of the past we must return to some those thing that made us great
@@imandan1966 _We are not going back_ Maybe we should. "Back" when these bridges were built, it didn't take decades to get things done, they just did it and it got done in months and years, not decades as it does now.
"let's hope that politics does not interfere" 😂😂😂 c'mon it's New York! It's billions and billions of dollars! that means different politicians and community leaders and special interest and different unions and lawsuits and arbitration and more lawsuits...
Several years ago, I lived in New Jersey and took NJTransit's Pascack Valley Line, changing at Secaucus into Penn Station. It was an effort, often very busy, but you got used to it. Though people hate Penn Station, they know they must put up with it for their commute. Making Penn Station more passenger-friendly is nice, but without increasing its train capacity, the same problems will continue to exist, and possibly get worse when the station becomes more friendly and entices more passengers. I spent most of my career in the rail industry, and the new Hudson River twin-tunnel is a step in the right direction, but there is still so much to be done. One possibility is to connect Newark directly to Grand Central (maybe another tunnel(s) farther north), allowing some trains to bypass Penn Station altogether. That would greatly ease congestion and increase capacity, but that would be another multi-billion dollar project that currently doesn't have the politics to be considered.
It's not necessary and would be unbelievably expensive. All they have to do is expand Pennsylvania Station one block to the south to add more platforms that will allow it to accommodate additional service. The station's renovation will handle the additional passenger loads.
After looking at Japan's bullet trains,they're so fast and smooth they have left the rest of the world behind both in terms of speed and reliability and connectivity it seems.
@@davidsmith3736 I rode the Japanese high speed system in 1965. Great system. Similar systems for the US have been discussed endlessly for the past 60 years. Not going to happen in the US. There have been so many road blocks set-up that it becomes politically too expensive.
My brother & I recently visited the NY Transit Museum in Brooklyn. What struck us the most is how much the NY subway system contributed to the economic development of NY City & the surrounding areas. For example, in 1930, just on 2 billion (yes, with a "B") people rode the NY subway system, an average of about 5.4 million riders per day. Many were migrant construction workers heading into the city to build the now iconic NYC skyline Fun Fact - Empire State Building was built in just 13 months in 1930-31 !! The NY subway gave the workers access to cheaper areas to live around NYC and a fast & affordable way to get to & from work. Fair enough, that might not be the case anymore, but it does highlight the importance & impact of having an effective public transportation infrastructure. The Gateway project is a positive step to keep the economic momentum going in NYC & the NE Corridor. We need more far-sighted infrastructure ideas like this in the US. And if you have a chance, go visit the NY Transit Museum.
The biggest Land Grab in NYC was the Overhead easements for the Private Transit System before the government ran them bankrupt and forced them to sell to Only the City (who would buy it anyway) today they could have been overhead shopping malls, restaurants and apartments, hotels…
One of the things that made Penn Station so crowded was that trains from the Long Island Railroad (LIRR) also used that facility. So Penn Station was filling up with commumters from Long Island, in addition to those from New Jersey and the rest of the US via Amtrak. It took over a decade of construction but now there is a new LIRR station under Grand Central Station at 42nd Street and Lexington Ave. So many Lond Islanders can now avoid Penn Station if they work on the Eastside of Manhattan. Additionally, the old US post office, right across the street from Penn Station, on 8th Ave, was retrofitted into a light filled Amtrak station named the Moynihan train hall. So Amtrak passengers can avoid the rabbit warren of Penn Station. There is even a waiting room for some LIRR passengers as well. So there already has been some improvemnet for passengers who had to go through Penn Station, but there is still so much to be done.
Penn Access will also bring Metro North commuters to Penn Station by the end of the decade so that commutes can be even more well balanced between the two stations
Those are excellent points. I'm not sure why but in the few years that we lived in the City my father always took the E or the F train from Union Turnpike to Jackson Heights and then the number 7 to get to his job at the United Nations. So there was never that problem for him of having to commute from the West Side to the East Side when there was subway station blocks away from the UN. Of course he might have managed his commute this way since he was a penny pinching miser. Still if the LIRR is a viable option for many central Queens residents, the recent changes are obviously a beneficial arrangement
All it did was move the mess underground for 20 billion dollars and it’s riddled with shoddy work, a lot like a China project because MA government is philosophically the same as the CCP.
How Amtrak and NJ Transit, have been able to run all their trains thru just 2 tunnels is amazing. Good thing LIRR doesn't go thru the Hudson River Tunnels too.
A lot of that is BS. Yea there is infrastructure that’s old & needs replacing but that’s only bc they’re at the end of their lifespan. I guarantee you most of the infrastructure in China won’t last as long as it does in the US. The reason it won’t is because they do not build structures the way we do & they take every short cut they can to reduce costs. A good example is car tires. If you buy the same brand & same model from China it will not be of the same quality as one from the US or Mexico because they skip curing the rubber because it costs a lot of money. Another major difference in the US is all of our roads are kept in good condition which is very rare in most countries even in parts of Europe.
SMH at your massive ignorance Tom. This are blue states and blue citys. That is why they are far behind in infrastructure. These kind of corrupt delays dont happen in the normal world, because not everyone need their palms greased in other citys because they arent run by criminal Democrats.
As someone who grew up in the area - this is probably a half century past overdue. It's so badly overdue that it prevents a lot of people from tolerating going into NYC to enjoy it for a day trip. Where it should be faster for me to take a train into NYC, because of the delays of this tunnel (even when they had all 3 open), it is almost worth driving in. I do disagree with refurbishing NY Penn Station Hall though. The focus should be first to increase capacity by expanding the rail lines that can be there - then make it pretty. Or make it in a way that allows ease of expansion (as easy as expansion gets in NYC).
That is what happens when you vote for greedy democrats. They won't agree to anything unless you pay them in some fashion, normally to help them get reelected for a lifetime.
$15B for the 2nd Ave extension, $15B for the LIRR to GCT and another $16B( to start),that's $46B. The city is shaking the tree using the congestion toll for $1B.
In fact, the presenter seemed to imply that the completion of those new rail tunnels are the construction priority. I think that the intention is to get those done and over with
I think that the City has since 1964 realized that the demolition of the legacy art deco building ( built back in 1910 ) has been a colossal mistake. It was actually bigger than the current structure
It amazes me that things take years to build now vs 100 years ago. I remember watching and learning that we built stuff like this in a year or two and now it takes 20 years.
When you dig the first tunnel or build the first foundation for a building, you don't have to worry about disturbing anything else because your project is the only one there. These days building in cities is like playing that game Operation. You have to go around or move the utilities and so on. And that's only for the stuff you know about. There are plenty of projects where the construction team runs into in use infrastructure that's been in the ground since before accurate records were kept. That's just one problem. Another problem is that in the past, worker safety wasn't as big a concern, neither was environmental impacts. The list goes on and on.
Boeing built and flew the 747 in the 60s inside of two years. And it still flies. Bridges were built in under two years. Rebuilding part of the Oakland Bay Bridge took way longer. Something isn’t right. Yes more is in the way but there is more to it than that.
I still wish Madison Square Garden would be relocated to a nearby destination with direct access to Pennsylvania Station. MSG has taken the majority of Penn Station space, and there is no room for natural light.
Coming from someone who lives in a place where the closest thing to MSG/Penn Station is the TD Garden/North Station, I always wondered why people complain that MSG and Penn Station are so close. It's never really a huge problem in Boston, especially on event days at the TD Garden. I'd understand if it's because Boston also has the T's Orange/Green Line connection AT North Station alongside the Commuter Rail, and yeah, the T isn't, well, reliable at the moment, but I would think that having a big event stadium like MSG connected or even across the street from a busy commuter rail station would be great for commuters. Like I said, I don't know how it runs in New York, so bare with my innocence and curiosities.
Alas, the ultimate solution to the Penn Station problem is to essentially move Madison Square Garden to a new location and essentially restoring as much as possible the old Pennsylvania Station layout. But that would cost another US$15 to US$17 billion to pull off, and James Dolan, the current owner of MSG, is extremely unwilling to move MSG given he spent over US$1.2 billion in 2012 dollars on a massive modernization of the current building. I'd recommend building a new MSG at Hudson Yards (which is already well-connected by recent subway lines) and building a new Pennsylvania Station from scratch in the same Art Deco style that made the Chrysler Building, Empire State Building and Rockefeller Center so well-inown.
@@coolboss999 Actually not. Hudson Yards is actually just west of Penn Station next to the Javits Convention Center, and putting a new MSG there frees up space for a new, essentially ground level Pennsylvania Station like the original version.
@@Sacto1654 Still. That moves MSG away from a lot of transfers and train lines. Now all you have is the 7 and the E. Down from like 6 subway lines AND Penn Station access to it. As much as I do believe Penn Station needs to be upgraded, it's going to have to deal with MSG being on top of it whether you like it or not.
@@coolboss999 I'd almost agree, but there are plentiful New Yorkers with the money to buy out Dolan's ownership of MSG. Would Dolan walk away from possibly US$25 billion to buy him out? If that happens, the work on a new MSG at Hudson Yards would start almost immediately, a new arena that could be nearly as modern as the upcoming Intuit Dome in Inglewood, CA.
Penn Station has enough tracks & platforms but not utilized correctly. Only the middle 4 tracks of the 21 are through running. The north side tracks and south side tracks could be used better if allowed the LIRR & NJT to through run instead of terminate at Penn & then reverse out of the station adding to the delays while the trains cross in front of one another. By through running Amtrak, LIRR & NJT would better use the existing tracks and platforms, add capacity and allow for true regional rail service in the NYC area
Alas, I have never been to NYC, but I am full of admiration for your train operations people who have to get all the trains from such a large station funnelled down through just two exit tracks to the west. Also it appears from diagrams that Grand Central Station had until recently only four exit tracks to cope with all the traffic from 40-odd platform faces. By way of comparison, London's two biggest stations, Waterloo and Victoria (both termini), have respectively 24 and 19 platform faces, but they each have 8 exit tracks before the routes start to diverge, and the next biggest, Liverpool Street (17 platform faces) has 6 exit tracks. Yet there still seem to be frequent operational difficulties causing much frustration for travellers!
I’m a New Yorker. Frequently commuting into work to lower Manhattan. I’m nearing my 44th birthday. I will be shocked if this entire construction project will be completed in my lifetime. Cool video! I love everything about New York State. Not just the city. Many people forget about the rest of the state when you say that you’re from New York. I live about 70 miles north from the city. Definitely have no desire to go there anymore for the foreseeable future unless things get better.
My father had a career in the MTA subways from the 60's to the 80's. May he R.I.P. as of 5-13-18. THE SHOW MUST GO ON. He told me of this planned project almost two decades ago. It makes a lot of sense. It's obvious that relying on ancient infrastructure is a recipe for disaster. These projects look good to me. That is, if one wishes to continue to have a Northeast Corridor and access to and from NYC via rail. THE SHOW MUST GO ON.
Connecticut here. I get to nyc by train. Love that ct and nyc have a partnership providing pretty simple train service to and from. Spend few hours nyc having fun. Go back home. Can’t beat it
If Staten Island ever needed a tunnel to NYC now would be the time, because the more ways in and out of the city the better; adding the Long Island to CT or RI Tunnel also!!!
@@howardcitizen2471it was the 60, they were fully investing in cars. The R train was supposed to end in Staten Island, the tunnel was actually starting to be built and stopped.
@@howardcitizen2471 NYC urban planner Robert Moses was racist and didn't want poor or minorities traveling easily into Staten Island, then was an escape for White Middle class New Yorkers fleeing integration and minorities from the other 4 boroughs
As someone who lives in North Jersey and primarily takes NJ Transit when I go to NYC, this redevelopment of the infrastructure is WELL OVERDUE. The bottleneck when the North River tunnel fails is so unbelievable! The delays, the traffic, the buildup of people waiting in the train waiting area in NY Penn can get overwhelming. When your only way out to a city via train is shutdown, you get very antsy in wondering when you'll finally return home. I 100% welcome the development of that new tunnel + the addition of the completely renovated NRT
I grew up in metro NYC. Lived in Jersey City, The Bronx and Brooklyn. I got around the country a lot. I now live in Louisville, Kentucky. I miss the big apple. Good luck with those projects.
You can always move back. Just have fun with the 4k+ average rent, uncontrolled shoplifting and other more serious crimes in which the city and state refuse to actually charge, the disaster that is the illegal migrant crisis, cumbling infrastructure...
Though I left the NY metro area a few years ago, I’m happy that these projects are hopefully on track to really, finally getting done. I remember the struggles with Penn Station and the surrounding connections. I just found your channel and found this particular video well done and I liked and subscribed and I’m looking forward to checking out the rest of what you have to offer. Thank you for what you offer.
Fun fact: JR Shinjuku station handles nearly 4x more passengers* with 3 _fewer_ platforms than NYP**. A growing school of thought in transit advocacy, historically spearheaded by Alon Levy of the Transit Costs Project, suggests that the best way to increase NYP's capacity is not at all more tracks and platforms but rather fewer, wider platforms which can clear much more quickly, paired with a cleaner throat with simplified ladders that allows trains to move into and out of the platform area faster. * JR Shinjuku = 775,000 daily passengers; NYP = 200,000 daily passengers (per the video) ** JR Shinjuku = 16 tracks on 8 platforms; NYP = 21 tracks on 11 platforms
the tunnels would have been by now if Chis Christie didn't pull out of the project at the last minute. Back then, interest rates were ridiculously low.
@@the0ne809 That was the ARC Tunnel project, not the Gateway project. NY state didn't want to split any cost overruns with NJ, so that is why Christie axed it. Seriously, the tunnel was majorly benefitting NY and yet they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. One of the few things Christie did that made sense.
I find it interesting in all discussions abt Project Gateway that we're making believe we havent just spent $5-6B on a Penn St renovation that started just before covid and is not even finished yet. The new entrances and hallways are not depicted in the drawings as if it will just be torn down and redone. Might as well since not 1 penny of it was spent on NJ Transit which is the same crapezoid as ever.
Before the Tappan Zee Bridge was built, we took the Yonkers Ferry to get from northern Bergen County to northern Westchester County. I remember the stories about the Tappan Zee Bridge's being built on the cheap. That cost money later. A few years after that the the lower level of the George Washington Bridge opened. It was planned for when the bridge was built in the Twenties! A big difference in doing it cheap or doing it right.
It’s a start. Seems like a good idea as long as it stays on course. Very much needed.. It’s amazing that the men and women who navigate train traffic through that area are able to successfully do it on a daily basis. I support it and hope it’s successful.
Actually, NY Penn Station's footprint was expanded in 2019 when Moynihan Train Hall opened. However, that part of the station only has access to tracks used by LIRR and Amtrak, so NJ Transit passengers are still stuck in the rats nest below Madison Square Garden.
From my office, it is less walking to get into Moynihan hall, and can theoretically get down to train tracks and board the NJ Transit train, but Amtrak won’t allow notice boards to display NJTransit track info, and NJTransit app doesn’t update in time either. So I am forced to walk extra, get into the Penn station rats nest and board my train. NYC wants NJ residents to commute in, work and pay the heavy NY taxes, but won’t do the bare minimum to make our lives easier.
That was by design… MTA and Amtrak have done their very best to snub NJT at every turn of every aspect of this entire project and relevant projects. Now with the congestion pricing the city is implementing as well… meanwhile none of the public transportation infrastructure is up to par… and well… suffices to say NJ should start implementing fees and whatnot on the Amtrak lines that go through our state… etc. Enough is enough.
I’ve traveled into, out of, and around NYC for forty-five years; often through Penn Station. Over that time there have been several plans to update the facility. The issue has always been never getting started. It’s heartening to know that something may actually get done.
Why construction costs are so high in the US? I saw this video and one bridge will cost USD$1.8 Bn. In perspective this amount is nearly all the cost of commuter railway projects in Greater Santiago, Chile (2 lines with 80 kms in total). By other hand, this investment for NYC transport is really mandatory. Good video and explanation
We seem to have a habit in this country of building things, and then ignoring the fact that they need maintenance from time to time. The Hudson River Project is a good start to addressing at least one of these situations. While it may not solve all the issues, it's a good start, and future investments in such things as additional tracks, etc. will still be possible, if we have the political will to do it! (I'm at the point where I think "partisan politics" is the enemy of progress!)
I realize and appreciate the necessity to fix the issues mentioned in this video. But the real elephant in the room is the fact that no one seems to remember that Hurricane Sandy gave New York a black eye not so long ago, and no one seems to want to do anything about it. By not having hurricane barriers at the Verrazano Bridge (and other ocean inlets), New York is doomed to experience a repeat of the devastation (and expense) that occurred, especially at the Battery.
Even the heavy rains last year showed how the storm sewer system is completely inadequate. Nobody willing to do what needs to be done. That city is heading towards disaster in many ways lately.
The Narrows is a bit over a mile wide and over 200' deep. A storm barrier there would be absolutely AMAZING! You'd also need one on the East river, and a third to block flow from the Arthur Kill (which if located at the southern end, would also help low lying areas in Staten Island, Bayonne, Perth Amboy, Carteret, Newark....
@@corydalus981 I agree. But if it is NOT done Manhattan will, once again, have to spend $60 - 100 Bln. to rebuild the Battery with all its subway infrastructure if another Hurricane Sandy decides to pay you a visit. And that's just the Battery! As an old commercial used to say: "You can pay me now or pay me later." The time for action is NOW!
@@MikeWiggins1235711 I'm not questioning if it's needed. Only if it can be done at all. This would completely dwarf any tidal barrier ever made. And I think it would need three. It might be cheaper to raise the city 20 or so feet!
When my wife and I came to New York last year we came into the Moynihan Train Hall which was VERY nice, very clean and easy to maneuver. I havn't been in the old Penn Station in a long time but I remember it as very dark and dirty.
Having the whole northeast corridor passing through Manhattan without building any bypass routes just seems absurd :/ in Japan it would have already been expanded so much times throughout the century, maybe getting eight to nine tracks under the river
We do not care about our people because of "individualism" and lack of care for efficiency. That is why its mandatory to drive an 8 cylinder pickup truck to a warehouse of food in USA.
This is amazing, to listen to the story of this project with all the negotiating, concept development and design work going on. It is a “meat and potatoes” project that will bring improvement to an extremely old transportation system. It’s good that people are taking a big idea and a “roll up our sleeves” approach to accomplish this.
Great video, very informative, and considering my wife and I are about to visit New York for a few days we are looking forward to seeing the old station. I spent 3 days in New York a few years ago visiting our daughter, and I must admit it does need a renoavtion, but Im only a visitor!!
Good to see these projects underway. Penn Station itself has seen some important improvements already: the 33rd Street Corridor was reconstructed and looks very good. The LIRR has a new entrance and escalators on 7th Avenue. New Jrsey Transit's concourse and waiting area have been rebuilt and improved. Of course, the subway stations serving Penn are ADA-compliant.
Coming from Europe and have used Penn Station I totally agree that it was a terrible experience. The amazing thing is it’s taken so long to get to this situation where something get done. I guess trains are not import to the USA except for the metropolitan areas. I do wonder what US citizens would think if they saw the European rail system with its modern and refurbished stations.
Especially the amazing Zürich Hauptbahnhof (Main Train Station) in Zurich, Switzerland. It has (according to Wikipedia) 26 tracks and can be enjoyed using a 24-hour webcam. It is a model of efficiency, cleanliness and being able to successfully move dozens of trains every 10 minutes.
The northeast corridor also includes NYC to New Haven, Hartford, and Springfield MA. 1x a day , each way there is a Vermonter that goes from D.C. to Vermont , up the CT River Valley.
I sincerely think that the Bergen loop should not be built except for local service. Already these are 2 low radius bends with necessary leapfrogs (because level switches with shearing of the tracks are not ideal). In addition, the proposed service would congest the Hudson tunnel which would ultimately only have 4 tracks, if I understood correctly. Except to make the NEC viable we need 2 tracks dedicated to the Acela service. In the end, the tunnels of the Hudson must have 6 tracks MINIMUM!!! (2 for Acela and 4 for commuter lines). For the line ending at Hoboken terminal, well we need a new tunnel starting upstream of this station create an underground station (3 tracks, 2 central platforms) pass under the Hudson and then perform a role similar to an RER/REM, serving connecting metro lines in Soho, Chinatown and Lower East Side. Second tunnel, then serving Brooklyn via an axis not yet used by the metro (Clinton Hill, Bedford-Stuyvesant, East New York station, Lindenwood, JFK Airport). That is 25km of tunnels and resumption of the MNBN lines to Ridgewood via Paterson with electrification of the lines, extension of the platforms and transformation of the terminal station (Raising of the station, installation of a viaduct before and after the tracks, upgrading to 4 tracks 2 platforms central with double track junction upstream and downstream). No branches on the line, to avoid complicated lines. Ambitious but necessary. A large East-West radial with EMUs 200m long and a speed of 120kph. Price 15 billion.
I lived on the Jersey City waterfront before, during and after Sandy, I took the PATH train daily and it was flooded. My monthly pass was honored on the ferry from Goldman-Sachs to South Street and I remember that time as an amazing commute. Maybe expand the ferry service from Hoboken as part of this.
The solution is simple. Let those people that can do their job from home do just that. That would cut the traffic into the city by 40% and you wouldn't need this big of a project.
NYC would crumble.. hence the big corporate pushes for return to office. somebody’s gotta prop up the NYC commercial real estate market, fill those towers, and drain workers of their time and money!
I live a stone's throw away from Newark Penn station and used to work in NYC for quite some time. I definitely understand the challenges to improve the surrounding transit system. Is the gateway program a good idea? Idk, but this was a great video regardless, very informative and very well put together.
I read recent articles that a major bottleneck at NY Penn Station was the fact that MSG on top of it... but the owner Dolan does not want to move and it was actually he was the major blocker to the reconstruction
It’s cute seeing people take shots at Mendez while completely disregarding all the crook republicans… meanwhile Melendez is being held accountable. Funny how Democrats are held to a higher standard… OH yeah, and don’t forget, between crook Christie and crook Donald… they tried their damndest to completely derail the project featured in this video. Talk about political criminals with nothing but contempt for the American people who pay their bills while they… uh don’t… then whine and complain incessantly about *finally* being held accountable.
yup… but also for somewhat valid reasons too. NJ should not have been expected to foot an unequal portion of the bill… especially with Amtrak owning the NEC tracks (and doing a horrible job managing the NEC over the last idk how many decades). Then of course inbred braindead pedo donald chump used it as a political dig and killed off any federal funding for the project… so anyway… as usual it’s left to Democrats to get anything productive and beneficial done. Example number 9872228818239593 This project should have broke ground 15 years ago, included 6 tubes, and involved the relocation of MSG so that a proper station could be built. Busiest and most important train station in the country and what did we get?… a little bonus hall that doesn’t even add capacity or serve NJT (the majority of commuters), and ESA… a criminally inflated vanity project where the LI MTA bigwigs said… let’s build a new station for ourselves so we can just straight up avoid Penn Station… oh yeah and take trains away from Atlantic terminal in Brooklyn (you know, the largest borough and largest growing).
It was a different plan that would have included a separate terminal for NJ Transit. Because of that the plan was nicknamed Access to Macy's basement. Christie canceled it claiming cost overruns then refused to return federal funds sent to New Jersey to begin work on it.
That was the ARC tunnel. Completely different project, and location, etc. NY refused to split any potential cost overruns for the project, so it was axed. One of the few things that Christie did that made sense.
10:59 old map it's amazing they have built a few buildings already on the western half over Hudson yards Also how deep are these tunnels ? Seems like they would have to go below underground infrastructure and foundations .
I got to hate my commute into NYC/PENN so much that decided to drop $1M on an Apartment in NYC 6 years ago to eliminate my commute. I am now retiring and am under contact to sell the apartment for $3.6M. Happy Retirement gift to me! There are things I love about the city and I will be back, however the commute was not one of them.
Boy do I know it, on the taxes. NY throws ridiculous amounts of money away on nothing and has to get it from residents. Luckily, that will be the last tax bill I ever pay in NY. The State govt is so corrupt , I had to go.
Before the mid 60's we had a nice lighted Penn station with plenty of sunlight, Some one decided to demolish it and build Madison square garden witch turned it into what it is today
Didn’t Elon pay $44 billion for Twitter? This is nothing compared to that! Maybe we need to reevaluate our idea of valuation and invest in our country for the future.
The only difference, he was able to acquire it in a very short time. This tunnel will probably take 20-40 years to complete. This is just the reality of infrastructure projects in the usa.
Great vid! Is the Hellgate bridge going to be renovated as well? I would imagine that line being instrumental in the success of this plan overall. How will the phasing in of new Amtrak equipment effect this plan's fruition? Amfleets and aging locomotives are being replaced. Will these improvements allow for more 100+mph trains?
We are probably a few decades away from when double width 8 meter wide three level maglev trains traveling 800 kph - 1,000 kph are approaching being practical, but that is actually getting close when the long time objectives and a long term multi generational future is being considered. Serious rail fans, Amtrak and freight railroads know the Gateway Project is not in large part being done to improve the NEC. The new tunnels do not meet the long term objectives of Amtrak for high speed rail and double stack container freight along the NEC. The new tunnels are really only fit for commuter trains and diverting NEC corridor trains so the existing over one hundred year old tunnels can be taken out of service one by one for major repairs after which Amtrak will return to using them because they are faster than the new tunnel designs. The new Hutson River rail tunnels are deep bore tunnels going deep under existing neighborhood residential real estate not following publicly owned streets. When and if completed they would be a proof of implementation for future deep bore tunnels going under existing structures. New very deep and very long tunnels are one of the few methods that might carry high speed trains and double stack container freight NEC traffic under NYC and part of New Haven with no other real options for HSR alignments through much of the existing area. A good part of 70 miles of the future NEC might in deep bore tunnels starting in New Jersey going under NYC and returning to the surface well into Connecticut. HSR as it is known today started with the French TGV 300 kph trains in the late 1970s. Now in 2024 350 kph - 400 kph is considered the modern normal for HSR, but first generation 500 kph maglevs are being implemented in Japan. The age old restrictions of current loading gauge of trains should be advanced to about 8 meters or double the current loading gauge for future maglevs. About double the existing loading gauge of exiting trains has been a desired aspect starting in the 1840s where double track railroad lines were designed to occasionally have double width carriages use the inner rails of the double tracks.
A very exciting video with interesting information about this major project in New York and New Jersey 👍 As someone who comes from a rail-friendly country, I can say that the expansion and modernization of the rail infrastructure is worthwhile. I am pleased to see that major rail projects are also being planned in the USA. These investments will benefit rail travelers as well as the economy and the environment. Greetings from the railroad country Switzerland 🇨🇭🙋♂🤗
at 12:00 biden says “we finally have the money to get it done” we have always had money to invest into our country. i understand we spend to help aid countries in crisis but we don’t need to be fully funding others wars.
No, we are not struggling. As it was mentioned in the video, the original project started back in 2010, but because of political games it was delayed and then completely stopped.
Yeah well, when the world disrupts into another world war we would spend far more than that to restabilize. So yeah, best to focus on that before it gets out of control. You know, based on historical events.
You clearly don't understand how military aid works, we would have had to spend more money to dispose of that stock that was expired, instead we sent it abroad for pennies on the dollar. It actually saves us money.
Tunnels and train tracks in Europe are older but way better maintained than in the US because you guys dont perform any maintenance or upgrade the train infrastructure.
I hope that when they do this there will be provision made for potential future high speed trains using the new infrastructure. Does anyone know if that is part of the plan?
That engineer they interviewed proved he didn't know what he was talking about. 12,000V signal cables? WTF?!!!! The 12,000V cables are for traction power to the trains.
I was a signalman about 30 years ago for Amtrak along the NEC from philly to penn station. Signal for these electric trains are 6000 volts AC, with the overhead catenary at 12000, stepped down to 6000. NYC subway third rail trains run on 700 volts AC. I was mostly a freight railroader. Those signals were 12volts DC. Much safer to work on and around
I used to take the END of the Jersey Coast line train, to NYC. Switching to a 30 minute drive to take the NE Corridor Train into NYC. The train ride alone on the Jersey Coast line was 2 hours each way.....EVERY DAY. THEN, a 30 minute walk up into midtown on 5th Ave. The train ticket alone was $400 some odd dollars a month. If I drove to the NE Corridor I added gas AND $165 per month for a parking spot. Life sucked all around. I was happy to leave that job.
I am on board with the plan, and I believe it will benefit the tri-state area and beyond. I wish it would have been established long time ago and will would have seen the benefits today.
We know why. Kickbacks to political leaders. Kickbacks for the Unions. Kickbacks for the city, Kickbacks for the Construction company, etc. They ALL have their hand in the cookie jar. Remember, Trump outed the entire system in NYC!
I always love going by a construction site and seeing 1-2 workers actually working and all the rest are just standing around, hands in their pockets watching.
2B seems cheap. Skilled labor isn't cheap. Chinas 3 gorges damn is a swirly line cause they hired non union workers and used subpar materials. So you get what you pay for. These workers all make 65+ an hour. You won't do it cause you can't so dont undermind skilled labor. It's not coming out of your pocket.
Interesting proposals. To me, they have to find a new spot for Madison Square Garden. It is a dump and needs to go. Put a new Pennsylvania Station where the old one used to be. It obviously can't be built the way that it was, but a large station, connected to Moynihan Train Hall, would be a big help. The Hall could have been built larger, as they had the space, but it is what it is. I travel between Philly and NYC a number of times a year and the Hall is a major improvement. Moving Madison Square Garden to a new spot and building a new Penn Station would be a huge improvement and make for an excellent transportation center and a grand entrance to the city.
Great that it finally moves along! And it will surely be a breath of fresh air for commuters and NEC travelers. But there's one thing that must be addressed and it is the outrageous cost of infrastructure in the US in general and New York in particular. Sure, politics play a huge role in the fact that projects are delayed, rethought, postponed, cancelled, relaunched, etc. But if costs were more reasonable, like in Europe (except UK, obviously), projects would much more easily get support up to completion. Nothing really justifies that a stretch of subway or cross river tunnel is 3 to 10 times more expensive in the US or New York than in Paris, Berlin or Madrid. (And no, it's not the wages as it's usually PPP adjusted and employer tax charges reduce the difference anyway). Right now, Paris is massively expanding the size of its metro by 200km (125mi), of which 90% or 180km (112mi) are bored deep underground, with 4 entirely new express lines and 2 extensions of existing lines, plus 84 fancy new stations and something like 220 new fully automated extra trains just for the new lines. All this for about 40B dollars, with a completion in 2030 or 2032 and a first opening in 2025. It's called the Grand Paris Express and it is expected to increase ridership by over 3 million rides daily. The comparison with the 2nd Avenue subway's cost per mile or kilometer and per station, or even per rider, is quite stark. And that's an understatement. As much as I am a transit advocate and strong supporter, I can understand that some people may be wary of the cost given how much it is inflated. Sure, I'm super happy that these projects in NYC finally progress but the excessive cost problem remains and it can't continue like that or it will severely restrict the possibility of future projects. The process must be overhauled completely so that projects come at a more normal cost comparable to other developed countries. Then projects will be popping out left and right, I'm sure of that. Great video, very informative and interesting!
@Uiiiiuybn The reason you mean? 🤣 Apparently it's more an issue with the process itself, as it was outlined by NYU's Transit Costs Project. There are inefficiencies, problematic regulations, bad practices, excessive recourse to privatization of risk, excessive contingency padding, and many other reasons that end up compounding each other. Plus excessive litigation, which is a major problem, whereas in most of Europe debates are done before "fixing" the project to define and amend it, then it is declared of public interest by a commission, which extinguishes the majority of lawsuits (exceptions are for non conformity to environmental regulations, etc). In most of Europe, there's a lot of preliminary stuff that is prepared, so that there are much less surprises later. In the US, the result is that projects like a basic surface train line or LRT line end up costing as much or even more than a deep underground luxurious fully automated heavy metro line in Europe. I've seen at grade LRT lines in the US costing as much as Rennes (France) metro line B (a fully automated light metro mostly in tunnels). It's common to see a 10km tram line in Europe costing 300 to 500 millions in total.
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Do you think this new tunnel will fix New York‘s bottleneck? 🤔
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No
I don’t even want to drive into NYC now cuz how expensive it is to get in and stay in.
Tolls and congestion fees? Parking?
But taking a train is not any cheaper… then sacrifices need to be made. But not by much.
@@BlendedCreeperNJ Transit exists
I believe that it will help, although it isn’t a panacea.
The way it's going, that project will cost $32 billion by 2035 and be obsolete, because NYC is turning into a lawless wasteland.
I took the Northeast Corridor for 9 years while working in the city. I remember getting off the train for the last time when I found a new job. It was like when you were a kid on the last day of school and you ran wild out of joy. Commuting into NYC is hell on Earth.
How is it different from commuting into other cities - in the US or beyond - that are blessed with regional rail?
Are Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Los Angeles, or Washington DC, are any easier to commute into?
@@abenm613the fact is all of those cities have been run by democrats for decades.
Delete "Commuting into" from the last sentence.
@@smctrout4423, you probably never set a foot in NYC and only buying on what special-interest groups want you to believe. I live in NYC and enjoy it.
@@abenm613 and I’m sure u love the taxes. Hey. Ur getting exactly what u voted for.
When I used Penn Station, I always kept my eyes on the board.
As soon as I saw which track appeared on the board, I bee-lined to that track without waiting for the fuckin' announcement.
That's Penn Station 101.
Like all the rest of us
I'm pretty sure that's what all everyday commuters do.
Rule 1.
Isn’t that what everyone in the world does?
Here in the UK, I don’t think anyone even pays attention to the audio announcements (at least at major stations), not even to double-check that they’re on the right platform.
The most amazing thing is that this whole system works as good as it does. It was built over 100 years ago, has multiple problem, antiquated and well worn equipment and still works to a point. It definitely needs to be fixed. Actually it needed to be updated years ago, but at least it looks like progress is being made. Lets hope that politics does not interfere and delay or halt this project.
Guess that means how much better the country was 100 years ago to build somthing that still works with no matenience so long later we are living off the greatness of the past we must return to some those thing that made us great
@@frederickjoyce776 No we need to look forward and make even greater advances. We are not going back
@@imandan1966 _We are not going back_
Maybe we should. "Back" when these bridges were built, it didn't take decades to get things done, they just did it and it got done in months and years, not decades as it does now.
@@teekay_1 Trump is certainly not interested in any infrastructure. Glad to hear youre voting Harris
"let's hope that politics does not interfere" 😂😂😂 c'mon it's New York! It's billions and billions of dollars! that means different politicians and community leaders and special interest and different unions and lawsuits and arbitration and more lawsuits...
Several years ago, I lived in New Jersey and took NJTransit's Pascack Valley Line, changing at Secaucus into Penn Station. It was an effort, often very busy, but you got used to it. Though people hate Penn Station, they know they must put up with it for their commute. Making Penn Station more passenger-friendly is nice, but without increasing its train capacity, the same problems will continue to exist, and possibly get worse when the station becomes more friendly and entices more passengers.
I spent most of my career in the rail industry, and the new Hudson River twin-tunnel is a step in the right direction, but there is still so much to be done. One possibility is to connect Newark directly to Grand Central (maybe another tunnel(s) farther north), allowing some trains to bypass Penn Station altogether. That would greatly ease congestion and increase capacity, but that would be another multi-billion dollar project that currently doesn't have the politics to be considered.
It's not necessary and would be unbelievably expensive. All they have to do is expand Pennsylvania Station one block to the south to add more platforms that will allow it to accommodate additional service. The station's renovation will handle the additional passenger loads.
I'm pretty sure they just did an expansion to have the LIRR go directly into grand central
After looking at Japan's bullet trains,they're so fast and smooth they have left the rest of the world behind both in terms of speed and reliability and connectivity it seems.
@@davidsmith3736 I rode the Japanese high speed system in 1965. Great system. Similar systems for the US have been discussed endlessly for the past 60 years. Not going to happen in the US. There have been so many road blocks set-up that it becomes politically too expensive.
@@larryschweitzer4904Brightline West 🤨
My brother & I recently visited the NY Transit Museum in Brooklyn. What struck us the most is how much the NY subway system contributed to the economic development of NY City & the surrounding areas. For example, in 1930, just on 2 billion (yes, with a "B") people rode the NY subway system, an average of about 5.4 million riders per day. Many were migrant construction workers heading into the city to build the now iconic NYC skyline
Fun Fact - Empire State Building was built in just 13 months in 1930-31 !!
The NY subway gave the workers access to cheaper areas to live around NYC and a fast & affordable way to get to & from work. Fair enough, that might not be the case anymore, but it does highlight the importance & impact of having an effective public transportation infrastructure.
The Gateway project is a positive step to keep the economic momentum going in NYC & the NE Corridor. We need more far-sighted infrastructure ideas like this in the US.
And if you have a chance, go visit the NY Transit Museum.
The biggest Land Grab in NYC was the Overhead easements for the Private Transit System before the government ran them bankrupt and forced them to sell to Only the City (who would buy it anyway) today they could have been overhead shopping malls, restaurants and apartments, hotels…
the Penn Station problem could’ve been easier to solve if they hadn’t leveled the above ground portion to build Madison Square Garden.
And the old Penn Station was an architectural masterpiece that was tragically replaced with the insipid Madison Square Garden.
Exactly
@johnwalter9696They didn’t have to let the rangers go just rebuild MSG across the street where Moynihan train hall is…alas too late.
Yes, exactly.
@@christophercox936 Moynihan is pretty nice though. No denying it.
One of the things that made Penn Station so crowded was that trains from the Long Island Railroad (LIRR) also used that facility. So Penn Station was filling up with commumters from Long Island, in addition to those from New Jersey and the rest of the US via Amtrak. It took over a decade of construction but now there is a new LIRR station under Grand Central Station at 42nd Street and Lexington Ave. So many Lond Islanders can now avoid Penn Station if they work on the Eastside of Manhattan. Additionally, the old US post office, right across the street from Penn Station, on 8th Ave, was retrofitted into a light filled Amtrak station named the Moynihan train hall. So Amtrak passengers can avoid the rabbit warren of Penn Station. There is even a waiting room for some LIRR passengers as well. So there already has been some improvemnet for passengers who had to go through Penn Station, but there is still so much to be done.
Penn Access will also bring Metro North commuters to Penn Station by the end of the decade so that commutes can be even more well balanced between the two stations
Those are excellent points. I'm not sure why but in the few years that we lived in the City my father always took the E or the F train from Union Turnpike to Jackson Heights and then the number 7 to get to his job at the United Nations. So there was never that problem for him of having to commute from the West Side to the East Side when there was subway station blocks away from the UN. Of course he might have managed his commute this way since he was a penny pinching miser. Still if the LIRR is a viable option for many central Queens residents, the recent changes are obviously a beneficial arrangement
I used the station multiple times end of last year (Moynihan...) was a very pleasant experience!
Yes I'm from Boston area we got the big dig that solved a lot of congestion problems but NY and NJ gets this I'm on your side start digging
Haha, while it was an improvement, not sure the big dig lived up to it's promise.
All it did was move the mess underground for 20 billion dollars and it’s riddled with shoddy work, a lot like a China project because MA government is philosophically the same as the CCP.
How Amtrak and NJ Transit, have been able to run all their trains thru just 2 tunnels is amazing. Good thing LIRR doesn't go thru the Hudson River Tunnels too.
The US is embarrassingly far behind in crucial infrastructure. Our economy is too focused on minting billionaires.
Too busy sending hundreds of billions overseas.
A lot of that is BS. Yea there is infrastructure that’s old & needs replacing but that’s only bc they’re at the end of their lifespan. I guarantee you most of the infrastructure in China won’t last as long as it does in the US. The reason it won’t is because they do not build structures the way we do & they take every short cut they can to reduce costs. A good example is car tires. If you buy the same brand & same model from China it will not be of the same quality as one from the US or Mexico because they skip curing the rubber because it costs a lot of money. Another major difference in the US is all of our roads are kept in good condition which is very rare in most countries even in parts of Europe.
SMH at your massive ignorance Tom. This are blue states and blue citys. That is why they are far behind in infrastructure. These kind of corrupt delays dont happen in the normal world, because not everyone need their palms greased in other citys because they arent run by criminal Democrats.
Health care is getting worst by the year compared to other countries
You're wrong it's focused on putting money in their pockets and giving money to other countries
You barely touched on Moynihan hall being done! The Acela and LIRR tracks over there are beautiful.
It doesn't fit the narrative.
LIRR has nothing to do with the connection to the rest of the continent.
@@fp5495 But LIRR moves a lot of people, and they have to coordinate their moves in and out of Moynihan and Penn with Amtrak.
As someone who grew up in the area - this is probably a half century past overdue. It's so badly overdue that it prevents a lot of people from tolerating going into NYC to enjoy it for a day trip. Where it should be faster for me to take a train into NYC, because of the delays of this tunnel (even when they had all 3 open), it is almost worth driving in. I do disagree with refurbishing NY Penn Station Hall though. The focus should be first to increase capacity by expanding the rail lines that can be there - then make it pretty. Or make it in a way that allows ease of expansion (as easy as expansion gets in NYC).
Yea but since the tunnels won't be done until 2035 so it makes sense to do some of these projects simultaneously
That is what happens when you vote for greedy democrats. They won't agree to anything unless you pay them in some fashion, normally to help them get reelected for a lifetime.
$15B for the 2nd Ave extension, $15B for the LIRR to GCT and another $16B( to start),that's $46B. The city is shaking the tree using the congestion toll for $1B.
@@georgetsokanis3542 no doubt
In fact, the presenter seemed to imply that the completion of those new rail tunnels are the construction priority. I think that the intention is to get those done and over with
I think that the City has since 1964 realized that the demolition of the legacy art deco building ( built back in 1910 ) has been a colossal mistake. It was actually bigger than the current structure
It amazes me that things take years to build now vs 100 years ago. I remember watching and learning that we built stuff like this in a year or two and now it takes 20 years.
Keeps people with jobs
When you dig the first tunnel or build the first foundation for a building, you don't have to worry about disturbing anything else because your project is the only one there. These days building in cities is like playing that game Operation. You have to go around or move the utilities and so on. And that's only for the stuff you know about. There are plenty of projects where the construction team runs into in use infrastructure that's been in the ground since before accurate records were kept. That's just one problem. Another problem is that in the past, worker safety wasn't as big a concern, neither was environmental impacts. The list goes on and on.
@@sosa3202
Very true on that.
@@Odin029
I like your explanation about that. I appreciate it very much. I guess you don’t think about that stuff when it’s very important.
Boeing built and flew the 747 in the 60s inside of two years. And it still flies.
Bridges were built in under two years.
Rebuilding part of the Oakland Bay Bridge took way longer.
Something isn’t right. Yes more is in the way but there is more to it than that.
I still wish Madison Square Garden would be relocated to a nearby destination with direct access to Pennsylvania Station. MSG has taken the majority of Penn Station space, and there is no room for natural light.
Shot of building it above Sunnyside Yards I don't see that happening.
MSG (corp) should replace MSG with another Sphere like they built in Vegas.
The Jets and the Giants now play in NJ.
Coming from someone who lives in a place where the closest thing to MSG/Penn Station is the TD Garden/North Station, I always wondered why people complain that MSG and Penn Station are so close. It's never really a huge problem in Boston, especially on event days at the TD Garden. I'd understand if it's because Boston also has the T's Orange/Green Line connection AT North Station alongside the Commuter Rail, and yeah, the T isn't, well, reliable at the moment, but I would think that having a big event stadium like MSG connected or even across the street from a busy commuter rail station would be great for commuters.
Like I said, I don't know how it runs in New York, so bare with my innocence and curiosities.
MSG has to be demolished and relocated somewhere else
Awesome video
Penn station isn't that terrible, it's getting better. Also the newer moynihan train hall is amazing
Nice video! Not from NYC, but we are having somewhat similar issues with our subway here in Montreal canada.
At 16:32, duh! That's Grand Central Terminal. Get it right or don't bother.
duh
Alas, the ultimate solution to the Penn Station problem is to essentially move Madison Square Garden to a new location and essentially restoring as much as possible the old Pennsylvania Station layout. But that would cost another US$15 to US$17 billion to pull off, and James Dolan, the current owner of MSG, is extremely unwilling to move MSG given he spent over US$1.2 billion in 2012 dollars on a massive modernization of the current building.
I'd recommend building a new MSG at Hudson Yards (which is already well-connected by recent subway lines) and building a new Pennsylvania Station from scratch in the same Art Deco style that made the Chrysler Building, Empire State Building and Rockefeller Center so well-inown.
I agree 100%
Moving MSG that far away from its current position is actually insane.
@@coolboss999 Actually not. Hudson Yards is actually just west of Penn Station next to the Javits Convention Center, and putting a new MSG there frees up space for a new, essentially ground level Pennsylvania Station like the original version.
@@Sacto1654 Still. That moves MSG away from a lot of transfers and train lines. Now all you have is the 7 and the E. Down from like 6 subway lines AND Penn Station access to it. As much as I do believe Penn Station needs to be upgraded, it's going to have to deal with MSG being on top of it whether you like it or not.
@@coolboss999 I'd almost agree, but there are plentiful New Yorkers with the money to buy out Dolan's ownership of MSG. Would Dolan walk away from possibly US$25 billion to buy him out? If that happens, the work on a new MSG at Hudson Yards would start almost immediately, a new arena that could be nearly as modern as the upcoming Intuit Dome in Inglewood, CA.
Penn Station has enough tracks & platforms but not utilized correctly. Only the middle 4 tracks of the 21 are through running. The north side tracks and south side tracks could be used better if allowed the LIRR & NJT to through run instead of terminate at Penn & then reverse out of the station adding to the delays while the trains cross in front of one another. By through running Amtrak, LIRR & NJT would better use the existing tracks and platforms, add capacity and allow for true regional rail service in the NYC area
Alas, I have never been to NYC, but I am full of admiration for your train operations people who have to get all the trains from such a large station funnelled down through just two exit tracks to the west. Also it appears from diagrams that Grand Central Station had until recently only four exit tracks to cope with all the traffic from 40-odd platform faces. By way of comparison, London's two biggest stations, Waterloo and Victoria (both termini), have respectively 24 and 19 platform faces, but they each have 8 exit tracks before the routes start to diverge, and the next biggest, Liverpool Street (17 platform faces) has 6 exit tracks. Yet there still seem to be frequent operational difficulties causing much frustration for travellers!
MegaBuilds team thanks for another great video ;) can't wait for more on EU mega projects :)
I’m a New Yorker. Frequently commuting into work to lower Manhattan. I’m nearing my 44th birthday. I will be shocked if this entire construction project will be completed in my lifetime. Cool video! I love everything about New York State. Not just the city. Many people forget about the rest of the state when you say that you’re from New York. I live about 70 miles north from the city. Definitely have no desire to go there anymore for the foreseeable future unless things get better.
MattyMatt80..dutchess county?
Heading in to Manhattan on NJ Transit today. The tunnel upgrades cannot come soon enough!
My father had a career in the MTA subways from the 60's to the 80's. May he R.I.P. as of 5-13-18. THE SHOW MUST GO ON. He told me of this planned project almost two decades ago. It makes a lot of sense. It's obvious that relying on ancient infrastructure is a recipe for disaster. These projects look good to me. That is, if one wishes to continue to have a Northeast Corridor and access to and from NYC via rail. THE SHOW MUST GO ON.
I have always wondered what the city might have looked like if another state line wasn’t right over the Hudson
Connecticut here. I get to nyc by train. Love that ct and nyc have a partnership providing pretty simple train service to and from. Spend few hours nyc having fun. Go back home. Can’t beat it
Metro North is actually pretty good. It helps that CT and NYS own the line, and Metro North is the only user of the original GCT.
@@travelandeats8518
The MTA is raising the Metro North ticket price next year. Every station will have a Loan Officer to finance the ticket price.
If Staten Island ever needed a tunnel to NYC now would be the time, because the more ways in and out of the city the better; adding the Long Island to CT or RI Tunnel also!!!
Why weren't rail line included when the Verrazano Narrows Bridge was built?
@@howardcitizen2471it was the 60, they were fully investing in cars. The R train was supposed to end in Staten Island, the tunnel was actually starting to be built and stopped.
@@howardcitizen2471 NYC urban planner Robert Moses was racist and didn't want poor or minorities traveling easily into Staten Island, then was an escape for White Middle class New Yorkers fleeing integration and minorities from the other 4 boroughs
Also, a tunnel from NJ to Brooklyn wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Staten Island is rock solid Republican. The democrat city gives Staten Island crumbs. Always have always will.
The Moynahan Train Hall has fixed some of the Penn Station situation. It's fabulous looking.
"it's arguably one of America's most important cities"
wow that's a real hot take right there
But true 🙁
@@miltonmoore1690it’s not.
@@gmeister03 come now dont be jelly. its okay to be in 2nd place.
@@gmeister03it is the financial capitol of the world. It is the most important city in the US. Cope
@@eifeldude1 it’s trash. Anyone who has their money in New York is trash.
As someone who lives in North Jersey and primarily takes NJ Transit when I go to NYC, this redevelopment of the infrastructure is WELL OVERDUE. The bottleneck when the North River tunnel fails is so unbelievable! The delays, the traffic, the buildup of people waiting in the train waiting area in NY Penn can get overwhelming. When your only way out to a city via train is shutdown, you get very antsy in wondering when you'll finally return home. I 100% welcome the development of that new tunnel + the addition of the completely renovated NRT
I grew up in metro NYC. Lived in Jersey City, The Bronx and Brooklyn. I got around the country a lot. I now live in Louisville, Kentucky. I miss the big apple. Good luck with those projects.
You can always move back. Just have fun with the 4k+ average rent, uncontrolled shoplifting and other more serious crimes in which the city and state refuse to actually charge, the disaster that is the illegal migrant crisis, cumbling infrastructure...
Do u miss the corrupt politicians in NYC?
bet its alot cheaper and nicer to live there now, good luck.......
Red States dont need fascist Demorat voters, so by all means move back to that hellhole.
Tried that already in Pennsylvania. Boring as hell. Moved back to NYC. I miss all the crazy people. Those that are scared, stay home and buy a dog.
Though I left the NY metro area a few years ago, I’m happy that these projects are hopefully on track to really, finally getting done. I remember the struggles with Penn Station and the surrounding connections. I just found your channel and found this particular video well done and I liked and subscribed and I’m looking forward to checking out the rest of what you have to offer. Thank you for what you offer.
This video doesn't take into account the upgrade of Penn Station that's almost complete. Certainly not a total fix, but quite an improvement.
Fun fact: JR Shinjuku station handles nearly 4x more passengers* with 3 _fewer_ platforms than NYP**. A growing school of thought in transit advocacy, historically spearheaded by Alon Levy of the Transit Costs Project, suggests that the best way to increase NYP's capacity is not at all more tracks and platforms but rather fewer, wider platforms which can clear much more quickly, paired with a cleaner throat with simplified ladders that allows trains to move into and out of the platform area faster.
* JR Shinjuku = 775,000 daily passengers; NYP = 200,000 daily passengers (per the video)
** JR Shinjuku = 16 tracks on 8 platforms; NYP = 21 tracks on 11 platforms
Great project. Long overdue even at that inflated price tag. The cheapest day to build anything is yesterday as they say. The next cheapest? Today...
the tunnels would have been by now if Chis Christie didn't pull out of the project at the last minute. Back then, interest rates were ridiculously low.
@@the0ne809 That was the ARC Tunnel project, not the Gateway project. NY state didn't want to split any cost overruns with NJ, so that is why Christie axed it. Seriously, the tunnel was majorly benefitting NY and yet they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. One of the few things Christie did that made sense.
I find it interesting in all discussions abt Project Gateway that we're making believe we havent just spent $5-6B on a Penn St renovation that started just before covid and is not even finished yet. The new entrances and hallways are not depicted in the drawings as if it will just be torn down and redone. Might as well since not 1 penny of it was spent on NJ Transit which is the same crapezoid as ever.
They did a good job on the new Tappan Zee Bridge.
billions
Before the Tappan Zee Bridge was built, we took the Yonkers Ferry to get from northern Bergen County to northern Westchester County. I remember the stories about the Tappan Zee Bridge's being built on the cheap. That cost money later. A few years after that the the lower level of the George Washington Bridge opened. It was planned for when the bridge was built in the Twenties! A big difference in doing it cheap or doing it right.
Amen.
They should have made room for a rail line on the new TZ Bridge, but they didn't.
It’s a start. Seems like a good idea as long as it stays on course. Very much needed.. It’s amazing that the men and women who navigate train traffic through that area are able to successfully do it on a daily basis. I support it and hope it’s successful.
Price will triple as Democrats skim off money like crazy
Actually, NY Penn Station's footprint was expanded in 2019 when Moynihan Train Hall opened. However, that part of the station only has access to tracks used by LIRR and Amtrak, so NJ Transit passengers are still stuck in the rats nest below Madison Square Garden.
From my office, it is less walking to get into Moynihan hall, and can theoretically get down to train tracks and board the NJ Transit train, but Amtrak won’t allow notice boards to display NJTransit track info, and NJTransit app doesn’t update in time either. So I am forced to walk extra, get into the Penn station rats nest and board my train. NYC wants NJ residents to commute in, work and pay the heavy NY taxes, but won’t do the bare minimum to make our lives easier.
I've been on NJ Transit trains from NJ to NY that dropped me off at the new Moynihan Terminal.
@@larrymatrale1368 yes. I do that too. In the evening, I go from NY back to NJ. That is where Moynihan, although near to office, is useless.
That was by design… MTA and Amtrak have done their very best to snub NJT at every turn of every aspect of this entire project and relevant projects. Now with the congestion pricing the city is implementing as well… meanwhile none of the public transportation infrastructure is up to par… and well… suffices to say NJ should start implementing fees and whatnot on the Amtrak lines that go through our state… etc. Enough is enough.
I’ve traveled into, out of, and around NYC for forty-five years; often through Penn Station. Over that time there have been several plans to update the facility. The issue has always been never getting started. It’s heartening to know that something may actually get done.
Why construction costs are so high in the US? I saw this video and one bridge will cost USD$1.8 Bn. In perspective this amount is nearly all the cost of commuter railway projects in Greater Santiago, Chile (2 lines with 80 kms in total).
By other hand, this investment for NYC transport is really mandatory.
Good video and explanation
New Jersey / New York politicians are the most corrupt in the developed world that’s why
Inflation
@@SKS8080 I don't really think it's just that, but more so the cost of both labor and materials.
@@jayc1139 welcome to Joe Bidens America.
This is NYC, everything is expensive there.
We seem to have a habit in this country of building things, and then ignoring the fact that they need maintenance from time to time. The Hudson River Project is a good start to addressing at least one of these situations. While it may not solve all the issues, it's a good start, and future investments in such things as additional tracks, etc. will still be possible, if we have the political will to do it! (I'm at the point where I think "partisan politics" is the enemy of progress!)
I realize and appreciate the necessity to fix the issues mentioned in this video. But the real elephant in the room is the fact that no one seems to remember that Hurricane Sandy gave New York a black eye not so long ago, and no one seems to want to do anything about it. By not having hurricane barriers at the Verrazano Bridge (and other ocean inlets), New York is doomed to experience a repeat of the devastation (and expense) that occurred, especially at the Battery.
Even the heavy rains last year showed how the storm sewer system is completely inadequate. Nobody willing to do what needs to be done. That city is heading towards disaster in many ways lately.
The Narrows is a bit over a mile wide and over 200' deep. A storm barrier there would be absolutely AMAZING! You'd also need one on the East river, and a third to block flow from the Arthur Kill (which if located at the southern end, would also help low lying areas in Staten Island, Bayonne, Perth Amboy, Carteret, Newark....
@@corydalus981 I agree. But if it is NOT done Manhattan will, once again, have to spend $60 - 100 Bln. to rebuild the Battery with all its subway infrastructure if another Hurricane Sandy decides to pay you a visit. And that's just the Battery!
As an old commercial used to say: "You can pay me now or pay me later." The time for action is NOW!
@@MikeWiggins1235711 I'm not questioning if it's needed. Only if it can be done at all. This would completely dwarf any tidal barrier ever made. And I think it would need three. It might be cheaper to raise the city 20 or so feet!
When my wife and I came to New York last year we came into the Moynihan Train Hall which was VERY nice, very clean and easy to maneuver. I havn't been in the old Penn Station in a long time but I remember it as very dark and dirty.
"Arguably one of America's most important cities." Damn, this guy's bold
Everyone knows the real cultural and economic powerhouse of the US - Omaha, Nebraska.
@@jayemmayy9587at this point almost any other state excluding Cali.
@@jayemmayy9587technically the standard general American accent does come from Omaha
Awesome video from MegaBuilds
Having the whole northeast corridor passing through Manhattan without building any bypass routes just seems absurd :/ in Japan it would have already been expanded so much times throughout the century, maybe getting eight to nine tracks under the river
Apples to Oranges. America is not a country on a congested island, we have a massive amount of land to expand.
We do not care about our people because of "individualism" and lack of care for efficiency. That is why its mandatory to drive an 8 cylinder pickup truck to a warehouse of food in USA.
Huh? NYC is where the people are, and where they want to go. It's to only US city comparable to Tokyo, Seoul, Shanghai, Hong Kong, London. etc.
This is amazing, to listen to the story of this project with all the negotiating, concept development and design work going on. It is a “meat and potatoes” project that will bring improvement to an extremely old transportation system. It’s good that people are taking a big idea and a “roll up our sleeves” approach to accomplish this.
"Arguably one of the US's most important cities"
Unfortunately
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
Not anymore it’s Miami now.
@@georgehenan853 🤣🤣🤣
@@georgehenan853 lol the city thats gonna be underwater in a couple decades? Sure.
Great video, very informative, and considering my wife and I are about to visit New York for a few days we are looking forward to seeing the old station. I spent 3 days in New York a few years ago visiting our daughter, and I must admit it does need a renoavtion, but Im only a visitor!!
Good to see these projects underway. Penn Station itself has seen some important improvements already: the 33rd Street Corridor was reconstructed and looks very good. The LIRR has a new entrance and escalators on 7th Avenue. New Jrsey Transit's concourse and waiting area have been rebuilt and improved. Of course, the subway stations serving Penn are ADA-compliant.
Wow great job putting this video together 🎉😊
Coming from Europe and have used Penn Station I totally agree that it was a terrible experience. The amazing thing is it’s taken so long to get to this situation where something get done. I guess trains are not import to the USA except for the metropolitan areas. I do wonder what US citizens would think if they saw the European rail system with its modern and refurbished stations.
Especially the amazing Zürich Hauptbahnhof (Main Train Station) in Zurich, Switzerland. It has (according to Wikipedia) 26 tracks and can be enjoyed using a 24-hour webcam. It is a model of efficiency, cleanliness and being able to successfully move dozens of trains every 10 minutes.
Me too. The worst station I have had to use.
The northeast corridor also includes NYC to New Haven, Hartford, and Springfield MA. 1x a day , each way there is a Vermonter that goes from D.C. to Vermont , up the CT River Valley.
This is a must!
Long Island to CT tunnels (both for cars and trains) and Brooklyn to NJ tunnels would help a lot with NYC congestion
I sincerely think that the Bergen loop should not be built except for local service.
Already these are 2 low radius bends with necessary leapfrogs (because level switches with shearing of the tracks are not ideal).
In addition, the proposed service would congest the Hudson tunnel which would ultimately only have 4 tracks, if I understood correctly. Except to make the NEC viable we need 2 tracks dedicated to the Acela service. In the end, the tunnels of the Hudson must have 6 tracks MINIMUM!!! (2 for Acela and 4 for commuter lines).
For the line ending at Hoboken terminal, well we need a new tunnel starting upstream of this station create an underground station (3 tracks, 2 central platforms) pass under the Hudson and then perform a role similar to an RER/REM, serving connecting metro lines in Soho, Chinatown and Lower East Side. Second tunnel, then serving Brooklyn via an axis not yet used by the metro (Clinton Hill, Bedford-Stuyvesant, East New York station, Lindenwood, JFK Airport).
That is 25km of tunnels and resumption of the MNBN lines to Ridgewood via Paterson with electrification of the lines, extension of the platforms and transformation of the terminal station (Raising of the station, installation of a viaduct before and after the tracks, upgrading to 4 tracks 2 platforms central with double track junction upstream and downstream). No branches on the line, to avoid complicated lines.
Ambitious but necessary. A large East-West radial with EMUs 200m long and a speed of 120kph. Price 15 billion.
100% agree
I lived on the Jersey City waterfront before, during and after Sandy, I took the PATH train daily and it was flooded. My monthly pass was honored on the ferry from Goldman-Sachs to South Street and I remember that time as an amazing commute. Maybe expand the ferry service from Hoboken as part of this.
The solution is simple. Let those people that can do their job from home do just that. That would cut the traffic into the city by 40% and you wouldn't need this big of a project.
NYC would crumble.. hence the big corporate pushes for return to office. somebody’s gotta prop up the NYC commercial real estate market, fill those towers, and drain workers of their time and money!
they already do. Tourism on the other hand has seen a HUGE increase in NYC. All just growing too fast to keep up with, especially the population.
I live a stone's throw away from Newark Penn station and used to work in NYC for quite some time. I definitely understand the challenges to improve the surrounding transit system. Is the gateway program a good idea? Idk, but this was a great video regardless, very informative and very well put together.
00:40 "Arguably" one of America's most important cities lol? Bro, there's no argument.
I read recent articles that a major bottleneck at NY Penn Station was the fact that MSG on top of it... but the owner Dolan does not want to move and it was actually he was the major blocker to the reconstruction
0:01 ya'll usually have good production quality but the state of New York shrunk 4 sizes that day.
Great video. I learned a lot.
4:38 - I am reassured to see that Senator Menendez is involved :)
U got what u voted for NJ.
He'll see the completion from jail.
Hopefully he donates some of those gold bars Egypt is bribing him with towards the project.
@@AD-gd2wy he knows that he’s in the correct political party so nothing will ever happen to him.
It’s cute seeing people take shots at Mendez while completely disregarding all the crook republicans… meanwhile Melendez is being held accountable. Funny how Democrats are held to a higher standard… OH yeah, and don’t forget, between crook Christie and crook Donald… they tried their damndest to completely derail the project featured in this video. Talk about political criminals with nothing but contempt for the American people who pay their bills while they… uh don’t… then whine and complain incessantly about *finally* being held accountable.
Love it how he says "Has to be done before the end if the year" aka if pumpkinface ever makes it into the Whitehouse it'll be canceled again 😂
A lot of Republicans are so mired in cultural issues, they can’t ever get to governing and building.
Why the segments showing Grand Central Terminal (around 16:35), since Grand Central Terminal is not at all connected to the new Hudson River tunnels?
Remember Gov Chris Cristy put a stop to this project years ago.
ARC was canceled by Christie.
yup… but also for somewhat valid reasons too. NJ should not have been expected to foot an unequal portion of the bill… especially with Amtrak owning the NEC tracks (and doing a horrible job managing the NEC over the last idk how many decades). Then of course inbred braindead pedo donald chump used it as a political dig and killed off any federal funding for the project… so anyway… as usual it’s left to Democrats to get anything productive and beneficial done. Example number 9872228818239593 This project should have broke ground 15 years ago, included 6 tubes, and involved the relocation of MSG so that a proper station could be built. Busiest and most important train station in the country and what did we get?… a little bonus hall that doesn’t even add capacity or serve NJT (the majority of commuters), and ESA… a criminally inflated vanity project where the LI MTA bigwigs said… let’s build a new station for ourselves so we can just straight up avoid Penn Station… oh yeah and take trains away from Atlantic terminal in Brooklyn (you know, the largest borough and largest growing).
It was a different plan that would have included a separate terminal for NJ Transit. Because of that the plan was nicknamed Access to Macy's basement. Christie canceled it claiming cost overruns then refused to return federal funds sent to New Jersey to begin work on it.
That was the ARC tunnel. Completely different project, and location, etc. NY refused to split any potential cost overruns for the project, so it was axed. One of the few things that Christie did that made sense.
@@PurpleMonkeyDishwasher88 severely slowed any progress on new rail tunnels under the Hudson.
10:59 old map it's amazing they have built a few buildings already on the western half over Hudson yards Also how deep are these tunnels ? Seems like they would have to go below underground infrastructure and foundations .
I got to hate my commute into NYC/PENN so much that decided to drop $1M on an Apartment in NYC 6 years ago to eliminate my commute. I am now retiring and am under contact to sell the apartment for $3.6M. Happy Retirement gift to me! There are things I love about the city and I will be back, however the commute was not one of them.
Lol, good thing you didn't listen to the haters that have been forecasting NYC death for years. Good investment mate.
Taxes will cost you dearly for that.
Biden thinks they finally have the money.
THE FEDS OWE $36TRILLION
Boy do I know it, on the taxes. NY throws ridiculous amounts of money away on nothing and has to get it from residents. Luckily, that will be the last tax bill I ever pay in NY. The State govt is so corrupt , I had to go.
😮
👍 good interview
U deserve a new sub :)
Before the mid 60's we had a nice lighted Penn station with plenty of sunlight, Some one decided to demolish it and build Madison square garden witch turned it into what it is today
Didn’t Elon pay $44 billion for Twitter? This is nothing compared to that! Maybe we need to reevaluate our idea of valuation and invest in our country for the future.
The only difference, he was able to acquire it in a very short time. This tunnel will probably take 20-40 years to complete. This is just the reality of infrastructure projects in the usa.
Because elon wouldn’t directly benefit from that and it seems rich people can only think short term
Need some crazy train enthusiast billionaire to come in and start doing this crap the government refuses to.
Great vid! Is the Hellgate bridge going to be renovated as well? I would imagine that line being instrumental in the success of this plan overall. How will the phasing in of new Amtrak equipment effect this plan's fruition? Amfleets and aging locomotives are being replaced. Will these improvements allow for more 100+mph trains?
We are probably a few decades away from when double width 8 meter wide three level maglev trains traveling 800 kph - 1,000 kph are approaching being practical, but that is actually getting close when the long time objectives and a long term multi generational future is being considered.
Serious rail fans, Amtrak and freight railroads know the Gateway Project is not in large part being done to improve the NEC. The new tunnels do not meet the long term objectives of Amtrak for high speed rail and double stack container freight along the NEC. The new tunnels are really only fit for commuter trains and diverting NEC corridor trains so the existing over one hundred year old tunnels can be taken out of service one by one for major repairs after which Amtrak will return to using them because they are faster than the new tunnel designs.
The new Hutson River rail tunnels are deep bore tunnels going deep under existing neighborhood residential real estate not following publicly owned streets. When and if completed they would be a proof of implementation for future deep bore tunnels going under existing structures. New very deep and very long tunnels are one of the few methods that might carry high speed trains and double stack container freight NEC traffic under NYC and part of New Haven with no other real options for HSR alignments through much of the existing area. A good part of 70 miles of the future NEC might in deep bore tunnels starting in New Jersey going under NYC and returning to the surface well into Connecticut.
HSR as it is known today started with the French TGV 300 kph trains in the late 1970s. Now in 2024 350 kph - 400 kph is considered the modern normal for HSR, but first generation 500 kph maglevs are being implemented in Japan. The age old restrictions of current loading gauge of trains should be advanced to about 8 meters or double the current loading gauge for future maglevs. About double the existing loading gauge of exiting trains has been a desired aspect starting in the 1840s where double track railroad lines were designed to occasionally have double width carriages use the inner rails of the double tracks.
A very exciting video with interesting information about this major project in New York and New Jersey 👍 As someone who comes from a rail-friendly country, I can say that the expansion and modernization of the rail infrastructure is worthwhile. I am pleased to see that major rail projects are also being planned in the USA. These investments will benefit rail travelers as well as the economy and the environment.
Greetings from the railroad country Switzerland 🇨🇭🙋♂🤗
I had a chance last year to experience Switzerland's rail system, it was awesome! I'm an ex-New Yorker, but go back often, hope they get this done.
@@VincentBurke-iv3xj Glad to hear that you had a great experience with the Swiss rail system 😀👍
We just sent $96 BILLION DOLLARS to foreign countries and struggling to fund our own ish! Some BS.
You think we’re giving aid to foreign countries just to be nice and help them out? C’mon…
at 12:00 biden says “we finally have the money to get it done” we have always had money to
invest into our country. i understand we spend to help aid countries in crisis but we don’t need to be fully funding others wars.
No, we are not struggling. As it was mentioned in the video, the original project started back in 2010, but because of political games it was delayed and then completely stopped.
Yeah well, when the world disrupts into another world war we would spend far more than that to restabilize. So yeah, best to focus on that before it gets out of control. You know, based on historical events.
You clearly don't understand how military aid works, we would have had to spend more money to dispose of that stock that was expired, instead we sent it abroad for pennies on the dollar. It actually saves us money.
Thanks Pete!!!!
Tunnels and train tracks in Europe are older but way better maintained than in the US because you guys dont perform any maintenance or upgrade the train infrastructure.
Very informative video. Remember the 2 tunnel and Penn Station build in 1910, where built with privet money of the PRR.
This guy just compared the U.S. government rail spending against the entire European Continent 😂
Mega build the amazing project the Hudson river tunnel
"[New York] is arguably one of America's most important cities...". Who would argue against that?
Clearly [XXXXXXX, MI] is the most valuable city in America--until I move somewhere else, perhaps [XXXXXX, WI, Population XXXX].
Stupid people who hate all cities
You didn't even mention the massive NY Penn complication that is Madison Square Garden, which is operating directly almost daily.
It is America’s single most important train line in the Northeast Corridor!
I hope that when they do this there will be provision made for potential future high speed trains using the new infrastructure. Does anyone know if that is part of the plan?
That engineer they interviewed proved he didn't know what he was talking about. 12,000V signal cables? WTF?!!!! The 12,000V cables are for traction power to the trains.
I was a signalman about 30 years ago for Amtrak along the NEC from philly to penn station. Signal for these electric trains are 6000 volts AC, with the overhead catenary at 12000, stepped down to 6000. NYC subway third rail trains run on 700 volts AC. I was mostly a freight railroader. Those signals were 12volts DC. Much safer to work on and around
I used to take the END of the Jersey Coast line train, to NYC. Switching to a 30 minute drive to take the NE Corridor Train into NYC. The train ride alone on the Jersey Coast line was 2 hours each way.....EVERY DAY. THEN, a 30 minute walk up into midtown on 5th Ave. The train ticket alone was $400 some odd dollars a month. If I drove to the NE Corridor I added gas AND $165 per month for a parking spot. Life sucked all around. I was happy to leave that job.
Bring back ARC ! Four new tracks !
I am on board with the plan, and I believe it will benefit the tri-state area and beyond.
I wish it would have been established long time ago and will would have seen the benefits today.
Would love to know why it costs 10 times as much to build something like this compared to Europe or Asia.
We know why. Kickbacks to political leaders. Kickbacks for the Unions. Kickbacks for the city, Kickbacks for the Construction company, etc.
They ALL have their hand in the cookie jar. Remember, Trump outed the entire system in NYC!
It's the golden shovels 😂
Doesn't sound extremely higher than any project here in Switzerland...
Great Amtrak coverage but i miss the AEM7s, what they did for the NEC is underrated.
How in the hell a little bridge cost $2B. 90% profit margin, contracts with government seems like the most efficient business in America
I always love going by a construction site and seeing 1-2 workers actually working and all the rest are just standing around, hands in their pockets watching.
It's New Jersey. When it's finished it'll probably have cost $4 billion.
2B seems cheap. Skilled labor isn't cheap.
Chinas 3 gorges damn is a swirly line cause they hired non union workers and used subpar materials. So you get what you pay for. These workers all make 65+ an hour. You won't do it cause you can't so dont undermind skilled labor. It's not coming out of your pocket.
They showed the criminal Senator Menendez briefly. It's a good reminder of where your money may be going.
@@israel984actually it’s coming out of every tax payers pocket.
REGIS!!!! BUDDDY NO WAY!!! I miss you, dawg! how you been? remember frisbee together? damn its been a minute! im proud of you homie!
This project is long overdue and has been delayed by politicians enough
Interesting proposals. To me, they have to find a new spot for Madison Square Garden. It is a dump and needs to go. Put a new Pennsylvania Station where the old one used to be. It obviously can't be built the way that it was, but a large station, connected to Moynihan Train Hall, would be a big help. The Hall could have been built larger, as they had the space, but it is what it is. I travel between Philly and NYC a number of times a year and the Hall is a major improvement. Moving Madison Square Garden to a new spot and building a new Penn Station would be a huge improvement and make for an excellent transportation center and a grand entrance to the city.
Great that it finally moves along!
And it will surely be a breath of fresh air for commuters and NEC travelers.
But there's one thing that must be addressed and it is the outrageous cost of infrastructure in the US in general and New York in particular.
Sure, politics play a huge role in the fact that projects are delayed, rethought, postponed, cancelled, relaunched, etc. But if costs were more reasonable, like in Europe (except UK, obviously), projects would much more easily get support up to completion.
Nothing really justifies that a stretch of subway or cross river tunnel is 3 to 10 times more expensive in the US or New York than in Paris, Berlin or Madrid.
(And no, it's not the wages as it's usually PPP adjusted and employer tax charges reduce the difference anyway).
Right now, Paris is massively expanding the size of its metro by 200km (125mi), of which 90% or 180km (112mi) are bored deep underground, with 4 entirely new express lines and 2 extensions of existing lines, plus 84 fancy new stations and something like 220 new fully automated extra trains just for the new lines.
All this for about 40B dollars, with a completion in 2030 or 2032 and a first opening in 2025.
It's called the Grand Paris Express and it is expected to increase ridership by over 3 million rides daily.
The comparison with the 2nd Avenue subway's cost per mile or kilometer and per station, or even per rider, is quite stark. And that's an understatement.
As much as I am a transit advocate and strong supporter, I can understand that some people may be wary of the cost given how much it is inflated.
Sure, I'm super happy that these projects in NYC finally progress but the excessive cost problem remains and it can't continue like that or it will severely restrict the possibility of future projects.
The process must be overhauled completely so that projects come at a more normal cost comparable to other developed countries.
Then projects will be popping out left and right, I'm sure of that.
Great video, very informative and interesting!
@Uiiiiuybn The reason you mean? 🤣
Apparently it's more an issue with the process itself, as it was outlined by NYU's Transit Costs Project.
There are inefficiencies, problematic regulations, bad practices, excessive recourse to privatization of risk, excessive contingency padding, and many other reasons that end up compounding each other. Plus excessive litigation, which is a major problem, whereas in most of Europe debates are done before "fixing" the project to define and amend it, then it is declared of public interest by a commission, which extinguishes the majority of lawsuits (exceptions are for non conformity to environmental regulations, etc).
In most of Europe, there's a lot of preliminary stuff that is prepared, so that there are much less surprises later.
In the US, the result is that projects like a basic surface train line or LRT line end up costing as much or even more than a deep underground luxurious fully automated heavy metro line in Europe.
I've seen at grade LRT lines in the US costing as much as Rennes (France) metro line B (a fully automated light metro mostly in tunnels).
It's common to see a 10km tram line in Europe costing 300 to 500 millions in total.
"New York is arguably one of America's most important cities." 00:40
Now that's what i call journalism.
On a global scale, NYC is the ONLY major US city. :)