This guy is phenomenal. I came across him by accident 20 minutes ago. I'm non-theistic in my beliefs but nothing I've heard this guy say goes against anything I believe. In fact, he seems to be one of the few people I've heard who have an honest intellectual capacity from whom you can genuinely learn from.
A wonderful man. I once played organ at a confirmation service. He spoke with such affirmation to everyone, such an uplifting sermon, he spoke with everyone, he came over to the musicians during the Passing of the Peace, he autographed my copy of one of his books. That was a service worth being part of.
He is a living Buddha. A Bodhisatva (defined as: Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.{Wiki}) We are blessed to have him in our consciousness. Thank you Rev Spong for all you do.
To me, the most honest prayer is, "God, your will be done, even if I wont like it. And bless my enemies AND my loved ones, that they may all have you with them. "
To answer the question phoenixtimes2 asked 1 year ago; What if John Shelby Spong and others like him had shaped Christianity? Along with many several other questions such as; What if toxic theology never existed? and How would it be? The best answer I could give is self and group actualization for all the faithful. I would also consider fulfillment and spiritual authenticity for all the followers. I also suspect a faith based upon reality not fantasy. It would be wonderful!
Many people don't understand Spong because they are too close minded. When you are close-minded, you are listening but not hearing. It is very hard to change a mindset that looks to attack because one has settled on believing what one currently believes. Spong is really a man that open minded people listen to, and test if required against what you already believe. If you are closed minded, Spong will always be a waste of time listening to.
Very interesting.Thank God for all things with the utmost respect for our understanding through our preceptions of what God is alowing us to perceive.Wow my head hurts.
What if John Shelby Spong and others like him had shaped Christianity? What if there were no southern evangelists with prayer cloths, miracle oils, river water, etc. yelling about hell and scaring, threatening, and thundering in rants? What if toxic theology never existed? What if intellect and kindness dominated religious discourse? What if there were no fundamentalists to screw things up? What if clergy and congregants really and truly used their minds? How wonderful it would be!
The correct way to pray is ALONE (just you and God). Praying is like fishing: you are casting your lure (your prayer) into the unknown, hoping to attract that great "grand daddy fish"--the one hiding down there in that dark, deep water. Be careful what you keep in your tackle box--and remember, a good fisherman never gives up--he just keeps on casting!
says who? I pray all throughout the day. and if I don't have time to pray, I make the most of my day and make it a physical prayer. there is no one right way to pray.
+MrGrevy so you must not believe in going to church on Sunday because that is public prayer with others. idiot yourself. many different ways to pray not just one. very closed minded. shame.
+MrGrevy The bible also say's to "Love your enemies" but for some reason Billy appears to be a threat to you, all the profane name calling makes you look like a typical "christian" (modern day pharisee) "hypocrite". Matthew 6:5-6 5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."
I’m an atheist and I like this man. He’s spot on with everything he says. The difference between him and I is that he still believes in God and I don’t. He actually sounds Pantheistic which is ok. The whole idea of an invisible alpha male in the sky was always garbage. It may have made sense several thousand years ago but with everything we know now we can see that nearly nothing in the Bible is true.
The last time I knew, Jesus great commandment was to love one another, and the last time I knew, true love was unconditional. Funny how church teachings seem to ignore the unconditional bit. Thats obvious by a few of the comments on this video.
My recommendation: Take at look at some of the authors mentioned (some of them you can also see here on youtube including someone like Tim Keller) . and then you make your own informed decisions
@phoenixtimes2 Agreed. I know little of Spong, but he seems a great person. If christians would be anything like him I'd have no problem with xtianity. The guy is atheist approved.
@TheMarathonomahos - Pls don't get me wrong, I am not stating that in every single area Mr. Sponge is misguided; obviously he has had many varied and informative life experiences. I refer to the context & totality of Bible based teachings. Try reading some of the authors mentioned and then compare them to the views of Mr. Sponge and his cohorts. You must reach your own informed conclusions.
I am talking about the toxic idea of reward/punishment that permeates too much theology today. Sin as an existential state? God created imperfect beings and then damned them for their imperfection? Most all fundamentalists are angry in my experience. They want to make sure everyone follows the same pace, no one hearing a different tune, no individuality, nothing unique, just banal pronouncements about the "terrible" state of being human....
@shieldsff All of the people you mention, maybe apart from NT Wright (who has a slightly more intellectual view, though still conservative) are biblical literalists. And literalism was never used until the 19th Century. But why not test Spong rather than simply say he is right or wrong? Few critics of Spong actually spend any time testing him.
What is "biblical" based? It wasnt until the 1900s that Christianity (the church) taught the bible as a literal book, though whenever I hear the word "bible or biblically based" I know that is a lie, because those who claim to be interpret things literally. Spongs teachings, as opposed to the teachings of most people I know of, are not clouded in doctrine, and that is the major difference between Spong and most teachers.
Such a shame the book on prayer is out of print. Prayer as an attempt to manipulate God into giving you the things you want turns God into Santa. Prayer is more for our sake, so we can be more open to the needs of others & give of ourselves. Words can often be hollow, whereas fullness is found in silence.
Well luckily I have been blessed with a sound mind and heart and don't need a man's ideas about a woman's place contradicting the living message of Jesus Christ...and not only was 2 Peter on the fence on whether it would be included in the bible or not, that passage doesn't even say that Paul's writings are scripture. It says that certain people treat them like they treat scripture. I reject the words of Paul when they conflict with the core teachings of Jesus.
@phoenixtimes2 Actually, you should say THANK YOU! There wouldn't be a message such as this for you without all of that, & I think John would tell you that as well. Thank you for all of this silly nonsense to have taken place, so that we may all come to our senses & see things for what they actually are, not what they appear to be! It is human nature & it's ignorance of the true nature of spirituality that has brought us to this point (& none too soon, wouldn't you say?)....
While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others
I'm not sure what you mean. If you are saying the Spong really has the right message as the fundamental of Christian belief, and the hateful zealots don't stand on truth, I agree with you entirely. But unfortunately Christianity has been dominated by the 'anti' crowd. Distrust 'wordly' things, distrust your mind, hate your body, be skeptical of the pleasures that being alive offers. Remember you are conceived in 'sin' and all that. It has poisoned faith for millions.
I take strong exception to your assertion that the authors I referenced are categorical literalists. While I do not disagree (nor do I make any apology for the fact that they believe the central truths of the Bible) they are not some kind of 'literalist' in a pejorative sense as you seem to imply. I'm familiar w/Mr Sponge from several lectures& debates.His flawed teachings aside, his misleading of his church is wrong. Messr. Sponge,Borg&Crossan are not faithful to the gospel
This guy is phenomenal. I came across him by accident 20 minutes ago. I'm non-theistic in my beliefs but nothing I've heard this guy say goes against anything I believe. In fact, he seems to be one of the few people I've heard who have an honest intellectual capacity from whom you can genuinely learn from.
A wonderful man. I once played organ at a confirmation service. He spoke with such affirmation to everyone, such an uplifting sermon, he spoke with everyone, he came over to the musicians during the Passing of the Peace, he autographed my copy of one of his books. That was a service worth being part of.
He is a living Buddha. A Bodhisatva (defined as: Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.{Wiki})
We are blessed to have him in our consciousness.
Thank you Rev Spong for all you do.
this video is dripping with honest and authentic spirituality. This man yearns to worship God "in spirit and in TRUTH." Brilliant and sincere.
beautiful mind..
beautiful soul
sacred words of love that is the prayer of the heart!
gratitude!
One mor thing love,peace,joy and understand through JESUS.Thank you Bishop John Spong
To me, the most honest prayer is, "God, your will be done, even if I wont like it. And bless my enemies AND my loved ones, that they may all have you with them. "
To answer the question phoenixtimes2 asked 1 year ago; What if John Shelby Spong and others like him had shaped Christianity? Along with many several other questions such as; What if toxic theology never existed? and How would it be? The best answer I could give is self and group actualization for all the faithful. I would also consider fulfillment and spiritual authenticity for all the followers. I also suspect a faith based upon reality not fantasy. It would be wonderful!
Many people don't understand Spong because they are too close minded. When you are close-minded, you are listening but not hearing. It is very hard to change a mindset that looks to attack because one has settled on believing what one currently believes. Spong is really a man that open minded people listen to, and test if required against what you already believe. If you are closed minded, Spong will always be a waste of time listening to.
Very interesting.Thank God for all things with the utmost respect for our understanding through our preceptions of what God is alowing us to perceive.Wow my head hurts.
What if John Shelby Spong and others like him had shaped Christianity? What if there were no southern evangelists with prayer cloths, miracle oils, river water, etc. yelling about hell and scaring, threatening, and thundering in rants? What if toxic theology never existed? What if intellect and kindness dominated religious discourse? What if there were no fundamentalists to screw things up? What if clergy and congregants really and truly used their minds? How wonderful
it would be!
Father in heaven - separate/so different is your name/who you are
Sprintdove Smith, prayer works. I AM A WITNESS
I have read so much, if I read any more, I'd go nuts.
@viper2808 Yes, and it was great! Being in the "now" is what I get from that song.
@5sluggo23 Excellent analogy...That's a Trinity that means something in today's world!
The correct way to pray is ALONE (just you and God). Praying is like fishing: you are casting your lure (your prayer) into the unknown, hoping to attract that great "grand daddy fish"--the one hiding down there in that dark, deep water.
Be careful what you keep in your tackle box--and remember, a good fisherman never gives up--he just keeps on casting!
says who? I pray all throughout the day. and if I don't have time to pray, I make the most of my day and make it a physical prayer. there is no one right way to pray.
+MrGrevy so you must not believe in going to church on Sunday because that is public prayer with others. idiot yourself. many different ways to pray not just one. very closed minded. shame.
+MrGrevy The bible also say's to "Love your enemies" but for some reason Billy appears to be a threat to you, all the profane name calling makes you look like a typical "christian" (modern day pharisee) "hypocrite". Matthew 6:5-6 5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."
Ugh
I’m an atheist and I like this man. He’s spot on with everything he says. The difference between him and I is that he still believes in God and I don’t. He actually sounds Pantheistic which is ok. The whole idea of an invisible alpha male in the sky was always garbage. It may have made sense several thousand years ago but with everything we know now we can see that nearly nothing in the Bible is true.
Good points phoenix ... you have indeed risen from the ashes of ignorance and learned valuable "truths" throughout history (lol)
The last time I knew, Jesus great commandment was to love one another, and the last time I knew, true love was unconditional. Funny how church teachings seem to ignore the unconditional bit. Thats obvious by a few of the comments on this video.
My recommendation: Take at look at some of the authors mentioned (some of them you can also see here on youtube including someone like Tim Keller) . and then you make your own informed decisions
@phoenixtimes2 Didn't John Lennon Make a song dealing with this issue, at least in part? I think it was called IMAGINE!
@shieldsff Why is he misleading? Example please? Thanks
@phoenixtimes2
Agreed. I know little of Spong, but he seems a great person. If christians would be anything like him I'd have no problem with xtianity. The guy is atheist approved.
@TheMarathonomahos - Pls don't get me wrong, I am not stating that in every single area Mr. Sponge is misguided; obviously he has had many varied and informative life experiences. I refer to the context & totality of Bible based teachings. Try reading some of the authors mentioned and then compare them to the views of Mr. Sponge and his cohorts. You must reach your own informed conclusions.
@phoenixtimes2 i may have chosen to convert! lol
I am talking about the toxic idea of reward/punishment that permeates too much theology today. Sin as an existential state? God created imperfect beings and then damned them for their imperfection? Most all fundamentalists are angry in my experience. They want to make sure everyone follows the same pace, no one hearing a different tune, no individuality, nothing unique, just banal pronouncements about the "terrible" state of being human....
@shieldsff All of the people you mention, maybe apart from NT Wright (who has a slightly more intellectual view, though still conservative) are biblical literalists. And literalism was never used until the 19th Century. But why not test Spong rather than simply say he is right or wrong? Few critics of Spong actually spend any time testing him.
Sick people seek out some one to heal them so when you go to church with Jesus you will find people who have symptoms of something worng with them.
What is "biblical" based? It wasnt until the 1900s that Christianity (the church) taught the bible as a literal book, though whenever I hear the word "bible or biblically based" I know that is a lie, because those who claim to be interpret things literally. Spongs teachings, as opposed to the teachings of most people I know of, are not clouded in doctrine, and that is the major difference between Spong and most teachers.
Such a shame the book on prayer is out of print. Prayer as an attempt to manipulate God into giving you the things you want turns God into Santa. Prayer is more for our sake, so we can be more open to the needs of others & give of ourselves. Words can often be hollow, whereas fullness is found in silence.
@bella50008 That is the problem with the church. Its so damned clinical that really, most people can't be bothered.
Well luckily I have been blessed with a sound mind and heart and don't need a man's ideas about a woman's place contradicting the living message of Jesus Christ...and not only was 2 Peter on the fence on whether it would be included in the bible or not, that passage doesn't even say that Paul's writings are scripture. It says that certain people treat them like they treat scripture. I reject the words of Paul when they conflict with the core teachings of Jesus.
allowing,sorry
@bella50008 Suprizingly, you did. I strongly suspect you are a) a troll, or b) a silent admirer. I suspect you later.
@phoenixtimes2 Actually, you should say THANK YOU! There wouldn't be a message such as this for you without all of that, & I think John would tell you that as well. Thank you for all of this silly nonsense to have taken place, so that we may all come to our senses & see things for what they actually are, not what they appear to be! It is human nature & it's ignorance of the true nature of spirituality that has brought us to this point (& none too soon, wouldn't you say?)....
While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others
I'm not sure what you mean. If you are saying the Spong really has the right message as the fundamental of Christian belief, and the hateful zealots don't stand on truth, I agree with you entirely. But unfortunately Christianity has been dominated by the 'anti' crowd. Distrust 'wordly' things, distrust your mind, hate your body, be skeptical of the pleasures that being alive offers. Remember you are conceived in 'sin' and all that. It has poisoned faith for millions.
And? Paul is no more perfect than you or I.
He has no authority over my beliefs. I am a Christian, not a Paulian
Spong is/ was a joke.
I take strong exception to your assertion that the authors I referenced are categorical literalists. While I do not disagree (nor do I make any apology for the fact that they believe the central truths of the Bible) they are not some kind of 'literalist' in a pejorative sense as you seem to imply. I'm familiar w/Mr Sponge from several lectures& debates.His flawed teachings aside, his misleading of his church is wrong. Messr. Sponge,Borg&Crossan are not faithful to the gospel