Everyone has been through horrible shit, and all have the right to their emotions caused by what they’ve been through, but some characters/irl people confuse that with the right to act however they want, justified by their emotions. I think this episode highlights that as a core message of the show.
The "Eldian ruled Marley 1st" is the sorriest excuse ever to turn around and do the same thing as King Fritz Eldian Empire. Marley before the Rumbling was literally taking over the world... so they are no different than the people they "hate" also Jean is def right about Marley being at fault for the state of the world rn. if Marley wouldv'e left the island alone then nothing would have gone bad. also a very very childish decision to send titans to the island and NOT expect any repercussions then try and turn around and blame people for their actions is psychotic manipulation. Then to try and justify this with "our history was worse than yours you should have to accept your fate" is idiotic and non-progressive. Just like with Marco and im glad they are doing in this episode is talking it out and I love that they are doing so ;--; seeing the sides come together is awesome
The thing is they are right to be afraid of the rumbling from a former grand colonial power who they had a history with, if I was the marleans I would’ve also thought these ppl were demons and trusted the tyburs intel
Yes, this is a fantastic chapter/episode! The idea that two warring sides could come together HONESTLY & air out their grievances , & come to a non-destructive conclusion. A lesson needed for our world today. 🤦🏿♂️ idealistic, but I think it’s needed. I cannot wait for your reaction to this finale. You’re in the endgame now.
Not just any old genocide, either, but super-genocide. It's really scary to see how many people will pick the wrong side even when it should be obvious that it's wrong.
Jean is the only one who appears to have doubts about the correctness of their decision. After all, they are condemning the island to destruction, their own home and people. The others, especially Hange, have not said anything coherent except that genocide is bad. And the genocide of the island is good???
The genocide of Paradis is not guaranteed, unlike letting Eren trample the world. It is reasonable to think that Paradis destruction would be the eventual outcome, but especially Hange & Armin still have hope that a different solution can be found. Now that might be overly optimistic and naive, but it fits their characters.
What I love about this is that the options are both genocides. Either they let a genocide happen to them, or let another genocide occur to protect themselves. Both are wrong, they're just on different scales.. Like its very clear that Marley at some point would of wiped out the island and either enslaved or executed the population.. While Erens actions are clearly very wrong, those actions do protect the island. I love how grey it all is.
Except those were not the only options. The plan from Armin, Pyxis, and the survey corps, sometimes called the "50 year plan," did not involve any genocide. It involved long-term diplomacy with other nations over the course of many decades.
@@jaredhoeft2832 Sure they had that plan but that wouldn't of stopped Marley.. Marley were always going to invade. If you take Eren completely out of the picture, they would of eventually came in and crushed the island.
@@traviscue2099 which is why, during that time, the founding titan and a separate titan with royal blood would need to be maintained in order to defend the island.
@@jaredhoeft2832 In theory sure.. but this is Marley we're talking about. And the people on paradise are Eldians, they're not going to let Eldians dictate anything.. The rest of the world treats Eldians arguably worse from what we hear in the show.. While I understand their plan, it would of never worked. Marley would of always came over and crushed them. And the world would side with Marley.
Unpopular opinion, but Jean aggravates me this episode. Once upon a time he had the moral high ground, but that time is long gone and he's still acting as if he's better than Reiner, even after he himself also invaded Reiner's home, killed a bunch of innocent people and threw a bomb at Falco's face (you know, the 12 year old child over there) in an attempt to kill Pieck, a close friend to Reiner just as Marco was to him. And then he has the audacity, _the audacity_ to make fun of the history of the world to Magath! Don't get me wrong, Magath was also mistaken and was insensitive, but he actually apologizes later, unlike Jean. And Jean is representing here a big problem I have with a lot of AoT fans: the way they love to view the history of this universe as best suits them. A lot of people act as if 2000 years ago and Eldian beat up a Marleyan and for some reason Marley is still butthurt about it, when the reality is that for 2000 consecutive years Marley and everyone else were slaves and that was still happening 100 years ago. Magath probably heard first hand accounts from the Eldian Empire from his grandparents or something, it's incredible disrespectful for Jean to make fun of that, like if a white person said to a black person "Why are we still talking about slavery, that was so long ago, just get over it!" in real life. Obviously the Eldians are the ones being oppressed now, but this didn't just started out of nowhere and context is important; Like Magath says next episode, no one will get nowhere by trying to erase (or rewrite) history
Fair argument. You can absolutely have this stance about the very real harm the Eldian Empire inflicted on the world. However, The story throws in the wrinkle that These characters (the Paradisians) have existed on this island for 111 years ignorant of the outside world & their ancestry at the hands of their rulers & made into ignorant victims themselves. If anything , your vitriol should be directed at King Fritz & what he did to his people. Fritz & the ruling class were absolutely still benefiting from the Empire’s history . The regular people were not. Fritz claimed to feel regret & heartache for the sins his people committed, but when he inherited the Founder, instead of working to better the world & pay reparations to Marley, he concocted a scheme punish his people & children in perpetuity. He laid the groundwork for the horrors we see up to this point. That was absolutely no solution. Historia clocked it best in season 3 “They’ve been suffering at the hands of her ancestors who were nothing but Suicidal Pacifists.”
@@HoundsBane You are correct, except that at this point Jean and the others have been aware of the history for years now, so what's your point? King Fritz doing absolutely everything wrong doesn't change the fact that Jean is still being disrespectful and inconsiderate of the parts of history that doesn't suit the narrative he prefers 🤷🏾♀️
@@beatrizoliveira9344 4 years , yes they’ve been aware of their people’s blood feud. That’s the conceit of the show. My point & my question is are you in agreement with Marley’s thinking that they should bare the weight of their ancestors sins? My point: is that it’s absolutely justified for Jean to air out his grievances with one of the main heads of a country that sanctioned attacks on these people. He shouldn’t have to show deference to a man that is literally calling him a devil to his face. I think it’s definitely understandable that Jean is upset with Magath for being flippant days after Marley launched a scorched-earth campaign. It’s more than fair. It’s not like Jean is waving a flag for the empire like Floch & calling for “Eldian Supremacy”. He’s calling Magath out on the real harm that he’s caused to him , his family, & friends. I understand your point completely about not trying to shift the narrative to one that suits you, but in this case it’s two warring sides finally coming together (under threat of the apocalypse) and actually talking. Tensions will understandably be high.
I do agree with most of the points you've raised, except the one where you mention Falco being a kid. He is a kid, but first and foremost he's a combatant. Sure, Jean didn't know for sure if Falco was just a random kid or a combatant, but it's pretty safe for him to assume that Falco wasn't a civilian, given that Jean knew about Marley training kids to be warrior candidates and Falco was trying to help Pieck.
First of all, let me say that this is not a comment to Mrs. "Senpaierin". I saw a very large number of Americans at AoT's Riaction. And all of those distributors condemned the actions that Eren had taken. It was in response to the actions taken by Eren after many people living in "paradi" were devoured by the "PURE TAITAN" and a general attack was declared. To preface, Riactors are saying no to all the "Eren" acts! However, there was a survey conducted in the U.S. last year or so, asking the question, "Do you think it was right to drop the nuclear ?...More than half of the citizens responded to the survey that "it was the right thing to do. Many Americans peaple also died, but only combatants. And in contrast, targeting women and children you gonna kill every last bone leave no one behind citizens living in the present answered that the use of the nuclear was correct. We was most shocked that the public today, not the people back then, thought so. More than half of the citizens say yes, and yet all of the riactors are uncomfortable with the idea of cruelty!
Lol...in the begining when hange was telling him the plan you said Jean is kinda right...lol...he's not kinda right, he's right period...if you're talking about self preservation and the island and everyone not dying then erens plan is literally the only way forward. But then on the larger scale, when you put emotions and morality to it then yes eren is wrong.
I love how "We haven't even talked this through" comes back at just the absolute perfect time.
I agree with you
Everyone has been through horrible shit, and all have the right to their emotions caused by what they’ve been through, but some characters/irl people confuse that with the right to act however they want, justified by their emotions.
I think this episode highlights that as a core message of the show.
Me too love it l fell şad for them all they had şadlife😢
Hange is seriously the funniest 💜
Effortlessly.
"Jean what about your seconds" gets me every time lol 😂😅🤣🤦🏼♀️, like now's not the time Hange love.
mommy
The "Eldian ruled Marley 1st" is the sorriest excuse ever to turn around and do the same thing as King Fritz Eldian Empire. Marley before the Rumbling was literally taking over the world... so they are no different than the people they "hate" also Jean is def right about Marley being at fault for the state of the world rn. if Marley wouldv'e left the island alone then nothing would have gone bad. also a very very childish decision to send titans to the island and NOT expect any repercussions then try and turn around and blame people for their actions is psychotic manipulation. Then to try and justify this with "our history was worse than yours you should have to accept your fate" is idiotic and non-progressive. Just like with Marco and im glad they are doing in this episode is talking it out and I love that they are doing so ;--; seeing the sides come together is awesome
The thing is they are right to be afraid of the rumbling from a former grand colonial power who they had a history with, if I was the marleans I would’ve also thought these ppl were demons and trusted the tyburs intel
Yes, this is a fantastic chapter/episode! The idea that two warring sides could come together HONESTLY & air out their grievances , & come to a non-destructive conclusion. A lesson needed for our world today. 🤦🏿♂️ idealistic, but I think it’s needed.
I cannot wait for your reaction to this finale. You’re in the endgame now.
18:42 my same reaction everytime i see his character 😂😂😂
He is trully the best
@@martind5653He's the best at being fooled into Eren's plan and being used as a sacrifice
Seriously enjoy every single minute of this show! After you see the end you will cry because is over! 😭😭😭
Love your reactions 💯💯💯
I agree with you And Rinier too he fell giultybso bad😢
Floch is obviously a bad person, but such a great character
Yeah, probably in my top 5 AOT characters.
It's no coincidence that the "King Floch" guy says "heil" instead of "hail"-let's put it that way.
@@r_bearFloch fanboys losing their mind knowing they'll never live under his fascist regime 😂
oh my god the fireside convo _oh my god_ "he wouldn't have done this" ppppppfffffffff THE FINALE WANTS A WORD WITH U JEAN
Parts of the fandom didn’t seem to get the “genocide is wrong” part
edit: yeah, the “floch was right” people
Not just any old genocide, either, but super-genocide. It's really scary to see how many people will pick the wrong side even when it should be obvious that it's wrong.
Here we go!
I love how Annie knows she can't take Mikasa as a human and is willing to go straight into Titan mode.
Pretty sure she can't take Mikasa as a titan either, tho 😂
@@beatrizoliveira9344 true, but the odds are still slightly better, lol.
@@beatrizoliveira9344s1-2 she took her out tho
@@beatrizoliveira9344 not without thunder spears, and that's not guaranted at all
She Queen l love Annie she dont care sbe fight to the end
I LOVE her accent. Is she italian ?
Belgian if I recall correctly
i love this episode!!!!!
Jean is the only one who appears to have doubts about the correctness of their decision. After all, they are condemning the island to destruction, their own home and people. The others, especially Hange, have not said anything coherent except that genocide is bad. And the genocide of the island is good???
The genocide of Paradis is not guaranteed, unlike letting Eren trample the world. It is reasonable to think that Paradis destruction would be the eventual outcome, but especially Hange & Armin still have hope that a different solution can be found. Now that might be overly optimistic and naive, but it fits their characters.
What I love about this is that the options are both genocides. Either they let a genocide happen to them, or let another genocide occur to protect themselves. Both are wrong, they're just on different scales.. Like its very clear that Marley at some point would of wiped out the island and either enslaved or executed the population.. While Erens actions are clearly very wrong, those actions do protect the island. I love how grey it all is.
Except those were not the only options. The plan from Armin, Pyxis, and the survey corps, sometimes called the "50 year plan," did not involve any genocide. It involved long-term diplomacy with other nations over the course of many decades.
@@jaredhoeft2832 Sure they had that plan but that wouldn't of stopped Marley.. Marley were always going to invade. If you take Eren completely out of the picture, they would of eventually came in and crushed the island.
@@traviscue2099 which is why, during that time, the founding titan and a separate titan with royal blood would need to be maintained in order to defend the island.
@@jaredhoeft2832 In theory sure.. but this is Marley we're talking about. And the people on paradise are Eldians, they're not going to let Eldians dictate anything.. The rest of the world treats Eldians arguably worse from what we hear in the show.. While I understand their plan, it would of never worked. Marley would of always came over and crushed them. And the world would side with Marley.
Character development of floch 💥he is just a man who heard erwin's speech ❤🔥
But Erwin would not support a genocide or I think?
@@deathnote7294 erwin would do anything to protect the paradis
Now let's stop the plot for some therapy.
Wooo, King Floch!
Unpopular opinion, but Jean aggravates me this episode. Once upon a time he had the moral high ground, but that time is long gone and he's still acting as if he's better than Reiner, even after he himself also invaded Reiner's home, killed a bunch of innocent people and threw a bomb at Falco's face (you know, the 12 year old child over there) in an attempt to kill Pieck, a close friend to Reiner just as Marco was to him. And then he has the audacity, _the audacity_ to make fun of the history of the world to Magath! Don't get me wrong, Magath was also mistaken and was insensitive, but he actually apologizes later, unlike Jean. And Jean is representing here a big problem I have with a lot of AoT fans: the way they love to view the history of this universe as best suits them. A lot of people act as if 2000 years ago and Eldian beat up a Marleyan and for some reason Marley is still butthurt about it, when the reality is that for 2000 consecutive years Marley and everyone else were slaves and that was still happening 100 years ago. Magath probably heard first hand accounts from the Eldian Empire from his grandparents or something, it's incredible disrespectful for Jean to make fun of that, like if a white person said to a black person "Why are we still talking about slavery, that was so long ago, just get over it!" in real life. Obviously the Eldians are the ones being oppressed now, but this didn't just started out of nowhere and context is important; Like Magath says next episode, no one will get nowhere by trying to erase (or rewrite) history
THANK YOU YOU ARE THE RAREST ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS AOT
Fair argument. You can absolutely have this stance about the very real harm the Eldian Empire inflicted on the world. However, The story throws in the wrinkle that These characters (the Paradisians) have existed on this island for 111 years ignorant of the outside world & their ancestry at the hands of their rulers & made into ignorant victims themselves. If anything , your vitriol should be directed at King Fritz & what he did to his people. Fritz & the ruling class were absolutely still benefiting from the Empire’s history . The regular people were not. Fritz claimed to feel regret & heartache for the sins his people committed, but when he inherited the Founder, instead of working to better the world & pay reparations to Marley, he concocted a scheme punish his people & children in perpetuity. He laid the groundwork for the horrors we see up to this point. That was absolutely no solution. Historia clocked it best in season 3 “They’ve been suffering at the hands of her ancestors who were nothing but Suicidal Pacifists.”
@@HoundsBane You are correct, except that at this point Jean and the others have been aware of the history for years now, so what's your point? King Fritz doing absolutely everything wrong doesn't change the fact that Jean is still being disrespectful and inconsiderate of the parts of history that doesn't suit the narrative he prefers 🤷🏾♀️
@@beatrizoliveira9344 4 years , yes they’ve been aware of their people’s blood feud. That’s the conceit of the show. My point & my question is are you in agreement with Marley’s thinking that they should bare the weight of their ancestors sins? My point: is that it’s absolutely justified for Jean to air out his grievances with one of the main heads of a country that sanctioned attacks on these people. He shouldn’t have to show deference to a man that is literally calling him a devil to his face. I think it’s definitely understandable that Jean is upset with Magath for being flippant days after Marley launched a scorched-earth campaign. It’s more than fair.
It’s not like Jean is waving a flag for the empire like Floch & calling for “Eldian Supremacy”. He’s calling Magath out on the real harm that he’s caused to him , his family, & friends.
I understand your point completely about not trying to shift the narrative to one that suits you, but in this case it’s two warring sides finally coming together (under threat of the apocalypse) and actually talking. Tensions will understandably be high.
I do agree with most of the points you've raised, except the one where you mention Falco being a kid. He is a kid, but first and foremost he's a combatant. Sure, Jean didn't know for sure if Falco was just a random kid or a combatant, but it's pretty safe for him to assume that Falco wasn't a civilian, given that Jean knew about Marley training kids to be warrior candidates and Falco was trying to help Pieck.
First of all, let me say that this is not a comment to Mrs. "Senpaierin". I saw a very large number of Americans at AoT's Riaction.
And all of those distributors condemned the actions that Eren had taken. It was in response to the actions taken by Eren after many people living in "paradi" were devoured by the "PURE TAITAN" and a general attack was declared.
To preface, Riactors are saying no to all the "Eren" acts!
However, there was a survey conducted in the U.S. last year or so, asking the question, "Do you think it was right to drop the nuclear ?...More than half of the citizens responded to the survey that "it was the right thing to do.
Many Americans peaple also died, but only combatants. And in contrast, targeting women and children you gonna kill every last bone leave no one behind citizens living in the present answered that the use of the nuclear was correct. We was most shocked that the public today, not the people back then, thought so.
More than half of the citizens say yes, and yet all of the riactors are uncomfortable with the idea of cruelty!
Huh?
Lol...in the begining when hange was telling him the plan you said Jean is kinda right...lol...he's not kinda right, he's right period...if you're talking about self preservation and the island and everyone not dying then erens plan is literally the only way forward.
But then on the larger scale, when you put emotions and morality to it then yes eren is wrong.
King Floch 🎉
God Floch ❤❤
Obligatory pro Floch comment here.
Obligatory pro fascist pig comment here.
King Floch!
King Fascist Piggy 🐷!
This is the worst episode of the entire show.
Not sure tho