Love that you use the words 'challenging' and 'difficult' where many others would simply saying boring. Photographers like Eggleston show us that nothing is boring, it's only a question of how, and what, one perceives.
“If something is boring after two minutes, try it for four. If still boring, then eight. Then sixteen. Then thirty-two. Eventually one discovers that it is not boring at all.” - John Cage
I think this might be the best photography video I've ever seen on RUclips. And I'm not exaggerating. Your insights are so on point. Not surprised considering the quality of your online masterclass, but can you do it for your whole library ? Pretty please ? :D
This is gem! I feel like I’m taking an amazing class with an amazing teacher in my own home. Absolutely love learning your insights. I love the casual pacing and vibe. Thank you so much!
@@AlecSothRUclips Worry not, perusers of Eggleston. Just head over to The Photobook Guy, where I believe the whole Democratic Forest box set is shown. Grab a six pack or your beverage of choice, settle in to a comfy seat and enjoy: ruclips.net/channel/UCzjx1mZr9gR_wjIQF4HvYygvideos.
Thank you for this, Alec! As someone who doesn't have a formal education in art or photography, videos like this are an invaluable resource to learn about the importance of editing and sequencing. Thoroughly enjoyed this and I hope you'll do more this year!
Dear Alec, thank you. Your voice is soothing. Thoughts after watching: what tells apart a challenging photograph from an unsuccessful one. What makes a photograph worth looking at.If pictures are random , what holds them together. And what is modern art without an idea to support it. Warmest greetings from Berlin
I have been taking your Magnum education series extremely slow simply not to consume them so fast and continue listening to you. This video has just made my day! Looking forward to seeing more of these "ramblings".
William Eggleston is my favorite photographer and this is by far the most comprehensive video I have seen on his work and a very good introduction. It is also a democratic way to have access to these very expansive books.
Well done Alec, inspiring, informative and at minute 41:31 Wolfgang Tillmans photo, It's a bridge in Rome, maybe Ponte Garibaldi, in case anyone was wondering. Thanks for these great vlogs.
I watched your Magnum piece and this with great joy. I’ve learned more from these two interactions than you can imagine - what I have struggled with most of all in my practice is creating sense and story. I’m sure I’m not alone. Your teaching video and these reflections really do work very well together - I’d love to hear more about the creation of narrative - thanks for doing this.
Thank you so much for this rambling Alec, it was very inspiring to have your insights. Still lots of question marks that make reading books so satisfying and frustrating at the same time. Your video motivates me to dig deeper on the editing side. Once again, thank you and keep on following your amazing journey. Cheers for France.
If this is called 'rambling', then ramble on! I enjoyed every minute of this Mr. Soth. It's a nice opportunity and insight to hear (and see) one master talking about another master.
Thank you for this, couldn’t come in a better time. I’m letting go the cameras I don’t use, in order to afford more books. The whole “democratic photography” idea is so fascinating...
Highly enjoyable interplay between food for thoughts and space for them, and the rhythm of it all. Just enough signposts to stimulate orientation in the forest. Loved the fringe connections (Tillmans, Ethridge). Bonus: a calm, soothing voice. Thank you
Your reading of Eggleston's Guide really gave me a fresh perspective of looking at the book, thank you! I'm basically parroting other comments here but this format is really enjoyable and insightful and I do hope you'll be doing more of these.
I love Eggleston, Shore, Keith Carter, and Jeff Wall. I really like the book “Democratic Forest,” also. For me photographs are “taken” not “made.” It’s all about what you see in that flash of comprehension of the scene in front of your brain, then it’s gone. Cartier Bresson was spot on, there is a decisive moment for every photograph, especially landscape pics. You grab it in an instant, and move on to the next, and the next...
The question you pose re editorial input/authorship, you have to consider that, true, a project for Eggleston may be 500-10,000 images taken during a period for a "project" and he would -- I can tell you firsthand experience with him -- rather be out gathering images than sitting in his office going through even 200 images for a project. For Bill, it's all the same thing. He doesn't care which you choose for that project most of the time. For him, the editor is a first filter to diminish the volume, to attenuate the sensory overload, then a first selection exists. At that point, an assembly and elimination process and Bill may, at some point say, "Let's replace that [particular] image with the one [he'll recall something he recalls and likes better] with x. So he does have input into the layout and the arrangement, even if he doesn't personally perform the initial shuffling. It's good to remember that even with great authors of fiction, except in the rare case of someone like John Updike, most writers work closely with an editor who can have as little input as word choice replacement to syntactic realignment or as large as structural upheaval and requesting specific content. Part of authorship is also deciding to work with someone who's artistic acumen is worthy of your vision.
Love this style, would love to see you do it with some of my favourites Robert adams, mark stenmeitz, Jem Southam, rinko kawauchi , dorthea lange and your own work!
Thanks for the great talk. The human mind is built for classification. It must be some genetic thing related to survival of the fittest. Give a random selection of photos to 10 people and they would all devise their own scheme of labeling and sorting them. It's one of the things I love about photo books. You have the images and then you have the order of the images. It would be loads of fun to put all of Eggleston's Democratic Forest images online and then have an app that allows people to come in and select/sort the images into their own playlist. I'd love to see the results.
Just watched. Please do more. I have always felt a push-pull sort of thing with Eggleston, often finding his photos “difficult” and “challenging,” as you put it, and his books “relentless.” I would love many images and question why others even existed. Your video helped me relax a little and be more open, less judgmental. Thanks.
@@AlecSothRUclips For sue now, and pretty much any time I would guess. Wish I were a lot better at it 🤣🤣🤣. Took out my copy of “Guide” last night. Keep doing these!
Thank you Alec. I was comfortably enjoying a morning coffee in my pjs with the sun on my back and found this. Yes, it was great. Led to another cup of coffee and a new inspiration for what can be photographed. John Szarkowski was such a master editor and poetic communicator of everything photography. Poetry. Sequencing. Less, not more. We are surrounded with more. 2020 has taught us that less is better than more. Unless we’re talking about good conversation and talks like this. Please keep them coming Alec, we need more.
Loved it! Far too many channels going on about gear and the technical aspects of images rather than what’s happening in the photo, what’s the story, what is it saying.
Couldn’t agree more Alec. I always admired Eggleston’s democratic approach (it makes a great entry into photography for any amateur) but have come to find it problematic for me that he spent so much time photographing and then gave away control of the editing, it seems like so many of his books lack narrative and direction because of that - aside from Eggleston’s Guide of course which is a masterclass in editing. With such a huge body of work to select from it seems cheap to just select seemingly arbitrary categories, but hey my opinion counts for nothing. If he wants to photograph for the sake of photographing who am I to say that’s ‘wrong’? Speaking of democratic photography, have you ever seen the original 60 or so photographs that Stephen Shore edited for his American Surfaces series? I only have the later edition book that must have 300 or so images and always wondered which ones made the cut for the original exhibition. Not sure if he even reproduced it in book form? The evolution of Shore’s work might make an idea for another video?
This is my first video I've ever watched like this, and my first time experiencing Eggleston. I am blown away. The end of your video had me drawn in. Eggleston's guide is a seriously beautiful and equally ugly. Gosh. The emotions I had no idea I would find in a photo book.
What a wonderful and truly valuable video. Your "ramblings" would be to RUclips something like what Stephen Shore's daily photographs are to Instagram. It raises the medium to a different level. I add my voice to the chorus for more of these!
I've always thought the same thing, the first Democratic Forest was strangely edited, and some of the photo choices were like "why?". Editing is so important of course, like when an otherwise perfect music album is marred by the inclusion of two or three songs that just don't fit, or the song order is not coherent at all, it's a struggle to listen to and engage with. Art is subjective of course, but I've spent more time trying to figure out if I'm missing something about a photograph, or if it's just not a very good photograph, than I have looking at the good photographs sometimes. 😆
William Eggleston's Guide was so life changing for me. Indescribably so. Like a karate chop to my imagination. Thanks for this discussion. It was hugely interesting and smart.
Thanks Alec, I loved hearing your personal thoughts on Eggleston's books and the ways they were edited. Are you taking requests? I'd love to hear you speak about Larry Sultan's Pictures From Home
Could you talk about Meyerowitz’s “Cape Light” ? Along with “Eggleston’s Guide” it was a very important book for a lot of us seniors. Love these talks, thank you.
Now I understand what kind of photographer I am a little more. I also like to photograph all sorts of what seems to be mundane items of the world around me and hate editing... 😬👍📸 Thank you for the talks I really enjoy them.
I bought a copy of democratic forest several years ago, only knowing his most famous works...I thought "I'll sit with it and I'm sure Ill get something from it" but it's always remained a bit of an enigma to me. its for sure hard to know how much consideration some of these images really deserve... Past some broader conceptional notion of the democratic.. some of the images...I just find myself wondering why? That all said I think about it often and I keep returning to it, great to hear your perspective and learn a bit of the history around the publishing of the book. Definitely love to see more of these. Though you spoke to this a bit its especially interesting to hear about your personal feelings, what images you find most meaningful and why.
I enjoyed this a lot. I've always been interested in the repetitive nature of the democratic forest, I feel like there is definitely something to the absence of people that adds a surreal quality to the work I can't quite put my finger on. Would love to see more content like this
This was amazing! Eggleston is my favourite photographer and you've made me see more things in his photos. I am fascinated by the question of how far the editing of the pictures is relevant to the understanding of his photos. Maybe one should not see his "democratic" approach as a "concept" (i.e. as opposed to photographing a certain subject matter) but really as the absense of a concept - I mean, he was not intellectual about his pictures and he didn't care much about the editing, both of which would make sense if he were persuing a concept. To me it seems that Eggleston's choices of what to shoot/what composition to use etc. were determined to a particulary large part by his subconscious. It seems like he would shoot something because it "spoke" to him in a way that he was probably not able to explain himself (and that would maybe only become more banal when attempted to be explained). What, to me, supports this thesis is that he shot very fast, almost passing by, and that he was very reluctant to talk about the meaning of his photos. If seen that way, the point is not that he shoots an oven, because it's as interesting a subject as anything else, but because that particular oven at that moment in that light corresponded to a diffuse, maybe subconscious, emotion that he had (that to you in the video translated to "suicidal"). To me that makes sense, because even his most "challenging" photographs, that don't have any quality that I can rationally grasp like beauty, surprise, interesting colour or subject matter etc., they still have an emotional quality that speaks to me. As far as editing is concerned, the job of the editor would not be to find something like "coherence" or "a story", but rather to replicate the experience of obliviously drifting through a day, with no sense of time, direction or purpose and no interference to the stream of consciousness - just like a child playing outside all day. (Which I guess is just what you said in your video.) Maybe the best way to present his photos would be either in the order they were taken on that day, or randomly (i.e. by a random generator on a screen, different every time you watch them). Or you could see the editing process as an attempt at psychoanalysis and try to find a subject matter in the potentially subconscious choices that went into the photos - which is maybe what happened in the case of the guide, where the editor distilled the subjct matter of boyhood and the mix of nostaliga and anxiety that goes with the transition from boyhood to adulthood. Anyway, I was inspired by your rambling to ramble on a bit. I'll get a coffee and look through the "Guide" now, I think.
I didn’t realise he didn’t edit the books. It’s created a bit of a push pull to how I feel about Eggleston’s work. On the one hand, if he can’t pick what’s good or worth seeing, how does the viewer get a feeling of the photographer or understand what they are being shown. On the other hand, it’s totally Egglestone, just churning out images with a take it or leave it attitude, which is kinda great in a way. I have an image in my mind of a photographer, slightly in the distance, seemingly shuffling along with a camera loosely at his eye so you can’t see his face, with a trail of prints behind him, just discarded on the floor for someone to pick up or not.
Brilliant! Loved this! It's so reassuring to hear you say that certain books by Eggleston are "relentless." That means I'm not stupid or tasteless to also have trouble with certain books. I liked the kind of editorial overview you gave here, flipping through a lot of photos. I'd also love to see you spend time on just a few photos to give close readings.
Hi, Alec. I am your fan who lives in Korea. I like your books so much. I felt your images as much as I could at the photo library today. I love that I can see you often on RUclips. Instagram feels so hectic and crowded. I'll look forward to your move.
3 года назад+4
Alec, listening to you talk about your photography and other photographers is a pleasure. You always speaks with openness and sincerity. I want to hear you talk more about book editing, but also about photography in general. It is very important what you are doing, for everyone who is interested in photography.
Ha! Never thought I would skip a bit in an Alec Soth video - but I have Election Eve hidden away for my birthday and didn’t want any spoilers :) Thanks for creating this deep dive and sight!
I definitely enjoy your views on various photographers. Will you at some point discuss Luigi Ghirri. Perhaps, his Kodachrome book.
3 года назад+3
Awesome. I have gone through my Eggleston's guide copy while you were explaining it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Robert Adams, Henry Wessel, and the new topographics. Thank you for this video, Alec.
My first reaction was comparable to the tale of the Emerors New Clothes, in that the majority of Eggleston's photos are just snaps with no particular merit. However, I've gained an appreciation of his work but that's as far as it goes. Someone else summed Eggleston up as the Best Worst Photographer in the world, which is very apt... next to my photos, of course. You just can't please everyone all the time.
when you talk about giving over control of the editing and how that might affect the book it made me think of Larry Sultan and Mike Mandel's photo book "Evidence" which is entirely comprised of appropriated images from archives. It isn't their photography but by editing the content they created art. In that regard we could think of The Democratic Forest as more of a work by Holborn than Eggleston.
Dear Alec, just two days ago I have found out you have a youtube channel. I have binged instantly all your videos. I can ´t even described how I feel. Thank you, thank you. Please continue talking about the books from your collection. My best regards, Miroslav
Once we understand his perspective, nothing is challenging, nothing is strange, nothing is hard to like and there’s no mistake into the sequence. There’s not even the desire of being curious of the other 10.000 photographs. It just makes sense and we see the flow appearing. It explains why it could be edited by someone else’s and why there’s so many books. The choice is not important. Our judgement and desire to find an explanation based on concept is misleading us to fail into the correct interpretation. Classifying the photographs into like « Interior » is really a mean joke but also giving a clue toward the solution. The edit without knowing how has done it after knowing who did it for the other ones, is also a clue. Same photographs, different edit is also a clue. The ennemies are our expectations, our déductives mind, our taste and them editing in a way that it is misleading but also genius way that makes his perspective blend into his highest standards photographs. Thank you for the inspiration and the ranting that is pure magnesium black fire starter for some minds. This is daunting and freeing at the time. Only making it ours will ease the feeling and tension.
I am a simple man and like the third version of DF most ;) this book made me go out and start taking photos so will always be more then just a book for me. Also I always knew that i would buy the 10 books version one day but I am a little intimidated by it now! Maybe it's still too early for me...I really appreciate this lecture - please share more of your insights on books with us! :)
As a retired UPI photographer and an Alec Soth fan, I enjoyed this talk greatly! as the books were sometimes tough to understand, a lot was sorted out for me by Alec's words. Rambling and Democratic with the best photos acknowledged!...
You should make more of these. I much prefer the narrative sequencing of William Eggleston's Guide to the other two edits although the location, subject matter, and color palette matching of the box set can also be pleasant. I just find a lot of Eggleston's "challenging" pictures sloppy and boring. I definitely see the landscape and portraiture connection to your own work. I'd love for you to analyze some Winogrand books as (1) he was a prolific shooter like Eggleston, 2) he hated to edit and left it up to others to dig through his negatives, (3) John Szarkowski also edited Winogrand's work, and (4) the Winogrand books are not widely available. I suppose I could look up people flipping through them.
Alec Soth cracked the challenge that stumped Walker Evans, in this interview: “Do you think in photographing, say, suburban America - which is a very wide part of American life today - you could use the same approach, of just looking at the very surface to portray it? W.E.: It doesn’t work. I’ve tried. I thought, “Here’s a great, significant sector of America,” but I’ve been bored looking at the work of those who have done it and I’ve been bored with my own work... But I can’t imagine myself photographing a group of people sitting around a country club, or whatever they call it. I’ve never found them satirical enough material.” I thought of “Bill. St. Louis Park, Minnesota” in Looking for Love. americansuburbx.com/2011/10/interview-walker-evans-with-students.html?fb_ref=03915d3aa318410996e34e9704d8ceb7-Twitter
This is like ASMR for photographers
haha yes
Yo I was just about to say this
I had to look that up - you’re right!!
I only wish I’d found this 11months ago. The world is shitty with Covid again though, so
Thank you for sharing this. It’s truly appreciated.
Really enjoyed this, Alec. The RUclips photography community is in dire need of this type of meaningful analysis. More please.
Check out THopper
Love that you use the words 'challenging' and 'difficult' where many others would simply saying boring. Photographers like Eggleston show us that nothing is boring, it's only a question of how, and what, one perceives.
“If something is boring after two minutes, try it for four. If still boring, then eight. Then sixteen. Then thirty-two. Eventually one discovers that it is not boring at all.” - John Cage
Zen: John Cage « 4:33 » [1952 - in 3 movements of silence with instruments at rest.lasting 4 minutes and 33 seconds]. Looking vs seeing: just one look
Agree, it's such an artistically mature and open minded way of viewing images. A good reminder for myself.
I think this might be the best photography video I've ever seen on RUclips. And I'm not exaggerating.
Your insights are so on point. Not surprised considering the quality of your online masterclass, but can you do it for your whole library ? Pretty please ? :D
Totally agree
This was perfect. Though I think I missed the bit where you said "Thank you to Squarespace" and "please click like and subscribe". More please.
haha
Probably the best format I have seen on RUclips ever. Could listing to you talking about photo books for ages. Thank you very much Alec!
Thanks so much Julien
This is gem! I feel like I’m taking an amazing class with an amazing teacher in my own home. Absolutely love learning your insights. I love the casual pacing and vibe. Thank you so much!
It would be great if you could do an analysis on Lee Friedlander.
everytime you said "don't worry, I won't show all of it" I was hoping you would show all of it. Thank you for this!
Haha, I should do the extended version
@@AlecSothRUclips Worry not, perusers of Eggleston. Just head over to The Photobook Guy, where I believe the whole Democratic Forest box set is shown. Grab a six pack or your beverage of choice, settle in to a comfy seat and enjoy:
ruclips.net/channel/UCzjx1mZr9gR_wjIQF4HvYygvideos.
Wow, thank you for all your videos! Please keep doing it. You are a huge inspiration!
Thank you for this, Alec! As someone who doesn't have a formal education in art or photography, videos like this are an invaluable resource to learn about the importance of editing and sequencing. Thoroughly enjoyed this and I hope you'll do more this year!
Thanks Andrew
Dear Alec, thank you. Your voice is soothing.
Thoughts after watching: what tells apart a challenging photograph from an unsuccessful one. What makes a photograph worth looking at.If pictures are random , what holds them together. And what is modern art without an idea to support it.
Warmest greetings from Berlin
Letting you know: Yes please do more of this.
Thanks for sharing
Very nice exposé. And indeed John Szarkowski made a great photographer even greater... We miss him.
So good. I very much appreciate how you say what you think but are kind about how you do it. That's a hugely undervalued skill these days. Ramble on!
I have been taking your Magnum education series extremely slow simply not to consume them so fast and continue listening to you. This video has just made my day! Looking forward to seeing more of these "ramblings".
Thank you Tugba
It seems like I never fail to enjoy hearing you speak, Alec. Pls go on with this initiative of yours! Thx
What a gift. Thank you for your voracious insights.
This is like a Masterclass on William Eggleston! Thank you so much for this incredible video.
William Eggleston is my favorite photographer and this is by far the most comprehensive video I have seen on his work and a very good introduction. It is also a democratic way to have access to these very expansive books.
Well done Alec, inspiring, informative and at minute 41:31 Wolfgang Tillmans photo, It's a bridge in Rome, maybe Ponte Garibaldi, in case anyone was wondering. Thanks for these great vlogs.
The first person to appear in the Democratic Forest, the kid in hat, is Eggleston's son, Winston -- as is the kid looking at the guns.
Thank you for this - and the other videos you do. Inspiring. Helping me to learn how to see ... and think
Thanks Alec. More book-rambling please!
What a great way to spent another dull Covid evening - I am really looking forward to see more of this
Please do more of these!
Listening to your ramblings makes me happy! Thank you for sharing 🙏🏻
What a great video! Very educational! Please keep doing this! Thanks
I watched your Magnum piece and this with great joy. I’ve learned more from these two interactions than you can imagine - what I have struggled with most of all in my practice is creating sense and story. I’m sure I’m not alone. Your teaching video and these reflections really do work very well together - I’d love to hear more about the creation of narrative - thanks for doing this.
Much appreciated. I have been using this to speak to students about the importance of editing. I will watch as many as you make!
I love to hear that these videos are being shared with students. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this. So hopeful there will be more!
Loved it, thank you. Looking forward to see more "ramblings".
Thank you so much for this rambling Alec, it was very inspiring to have your insights. Still lots of question marks that make reading books so satisfying and frustrating at the same time. Your video motivates me to dig deeper on the editing side. Once again, thank you and keep on following your amazing journey. Cheers for France.
We need more of these
Glad to know that I’m not the only one that find this book confusing, but love it just the same. Great ramblings, love to see more.
If this is called 'rambling', then ramble on! I enjoyed every minute of this Mr. Soth. It's a nice opportunity and insight to hear (and see) one master talking about another master.
Thank you for this, couldn’t come in a better time. I’m letting go the cameras I don’t use, in order to afford more books. The whole “democratic photography” idea is so fascinating...
Excellent. Thanks Arianna
I love this. More please!
Thank you Alec.
Love it! Thank you Alec
Thank you for sharing this. It’s awesome!
Highly enjoyable interplay between food for thoughts and space for them, and the rhythm of it all. Just enough signposts to stimulate orientation in the forest. Loved the fringe connections (Tillmans, Ethridge). Bonus: a calm, soothing voice. Thank you
Absolutely loved this!
alec, thank you. please do more. i need this in my life
this video taught me so much, the lenght is perfect. thank you!
Your reading of Eggleston's Guide really gave me a fresh perspective of looking at the book, thank you! I'm basically parroting other comments here but this format is really enjoyable and insightful and I do hope you'll be doing more of these.
Please do more of these!
This video format is great - looking forward to seeing more of these!
One of the first photo books I bought, second hand, before buying the other 450+ or so ;-) Highly enjoyed many of your talks so far!
I love Eggleston, Shore, Keith Carter, and Jeff Wall. I really like the book “Democratic Forest,” also. For me photographs are “taken” not “made.” It’s all about what you see in that flash of comprehension of the scene in front of your brain, then it’s gone. Cartier Bresson was spot on, there is a decisive moment for every photograph, especially landscape pics. You grab it in an instant, and move on to the next, and the next...
The question you pose re editorial input/authorship, you have to consider that, true, a project for Eggleston may be 500-10,000 images taken during a period for a "project" and he would -- I can tell you firsthand experience with him -- rather be out gathering images than sitting in his office going through even 200 images for a project. For Bill, it's all the same thing. He doesn't care which you choose for that project most of the time. For him, the editor is a first filter to diminish the volume, to attenuate the sensory overload, then a first selection exists. At that point, an assembly and elimination process and Bill may, at some point say, "Let's replace that [particular] image with the one [he'll recall something he recalls and likes better] with x. So he does have input into the layout and the arrangement, even if he doesn't personally perform the initial shuffling.
It's good to remember that even with great authors of fiction, except in the rare case of someone like John Updike, most writers work closely with an editor who can have as little input as word choice replacement to syntactic realignment or as large as structural upheaval and requesting specific content. Part of authorship is also deciding to work with someone who's artistic acumen is worthy of your vision.
Keep it on, please.
Really enjoyed this and learned a lot. Thanks for doing it.
Love this style, would love to see you do it with some of my favourites Robert adams, mark stenmeitz, Jem Southam, rinko kawauchi , dorthea lange and your own work!
Thanks Ben. Great suggestions
Thanks for the great talk. The human mind is built for classification. It must be some genetic thing related to survival of the fittest. Give a random selection of photos to 10 people and they would all devise their own scheme of labeling and sorting them. It's one of the things I love about photo books. You have the images and then you have the order of the images. It would be loads of fun to put all of Eggleston's Democratic Forest images online and then have an app that allows people to come in and select/sort the images into their own playlist. I'd love to see the results.
Just watched. Please do more. I have always felt a push-pull sort of thing with Eggleston, often finding his photos “difficult” and “challenging,” as you put it, and his books “relentless.” I would love many images and question why others even existed. Your video helped me relax a little and be more open, less judgmental. Thanks.
"Be more open, less judgmental" is a good goal for 2021
@@AlecSothRUclips For sue now, and pretty much any time I would guess. Wish I were a lot better at it 🤣🤣🤣. Took out my copy of “Guide” last night. Keep doing these!
Thank you Alec. I was comfortably enjoying a morning coffee in my pjs with the sun on my back and found this. Yes, it was great. Led to another cup of coffee and a new inspiration for what can be photographed. John Szarkowski was such a master editor and poetic communicator of everything photography. Poetry. Sequencing. Less, not more. We are surrounded with more. 2020 has taught us that less is better than more. Unless we’re talking about good conversation and talks like this. Please keep them coming Alec, we need more.
I get rid of Prime Video and Netflix, now, I wan't to watch this, all day. Thanks for it !
Loved it! Far too many channels going on about gear and the technical aspects of images rather than what’s happening in the photo, what’s the story, what is it saying.
@@ericn4013 That''s exactly my day to day fight haha
Couldn’t agree more Alec. I always admired Eggleston’s democratic approach (it makes a great entry into photography for any amateur) but have come to find it problematic for me that he spent so much time photographing and then gave away control of the editing, it seems like so many of his books lack narrative and direction because of that - aside from Eggleston’s Guide of course which is a masterclass in editing. With such a huge body of work to select from it seems cheap to just select seemingly arbitrary categories, but hey my opinion counts for nothing. If he wants to photograph for the sake of photographing who am I to say that’s ‘wrong’? Speaking of democratic photography, have you ever seen the original 60 or so photographs that Stephen Shore edited for his American Surfaces series? I only have the later edition book that must have 300 or so images and always wondered which ones made the cut for the original exhibition. Not sure if he even reproduced it in book form? The evolution of Shore’s work might make an idea for another video?
Love this format... would love to see you do something similar with Stephen Shore books
This is my first video I've ever watched like this, and my first time experiencing Eggleston. I am blown away. The end of your video had me drawn in. Eggleston's guide is a seriously beautiful and equally ugly. Gosh. The emotions I had no idea I would find in a photo book.
great video, thanks!
Please don't stop doing this kind of videos
What a wonderful and truly valuable video. Your "ramblings" would be to RUclips something like what Stephen Shore's daily photographs are to Instagram. It raises the medium to a different level. I add my voice to the chorus for more of these!
Thank you Patrick
This was awesome!!!
I've always thought the same thing, the first Democratic Forest was strangely edited, and some of the photo choices were like "why?". Editing is so important of course, like when an otherwise perfect music album is marred by the inclusion of two or three songs that just don't fit, or the song order is not coherent at all, it's a struggle to listen to and engage with. Art is subjective of course, but I've spent more time trying to figure out if I'm missing something about a photograph, or if it's just not a very good photograph, than I have looking at the good photographs sometimes. 😆
Good point
William Eggleston's Guide was so life changing for me. Indescribably so. Like a karate chop to my imagination. Thanks for this discussion. It was hugely interesting and smart.
Thanks Alec, I loved hearing your personal thoughts on Eggleston's books and the ways they were edited. Are you taking requests? I'd love to hear you speak about Larry Sultan's Pictures From Home
It's a book I think about as much as Democratic Forest. Good idea.
Could you talk about Meyerowitz’s “Cape Light” ? Along with “Eggleston’s Guide” it was a very important book for a lot of us seniors. Love these talks, thank you.
I hope to eventually. Thanks.
Now I understand what kind of photographer I am a little more. I also like to photograph all sorts of what seems to be mundane items of the world around me and hate editing... 😬👍📸 Thank you for the talks I really enjoy them.
I brought up this book in my photo class and now my photography teacher loves me. Ty Mr. Soth 😌
I enjoyed this. Thank you for posting. I would love to see one on Wolfgang Tillmans or Juergen Teller.
I bought a copy of democratic forest several years ago, only knowing his most famous works...I thought "I'll sit with it and I'm sure Ill get something from it" but it's always remained a bit of an enigma to me. its for sure hard to know how much consideration some of these images really deserve... Past some broader conceptional notion of the democratic.. some of the images...I just find myself wondering why? That all said I think about it often and I keep returning to it, great to hear your perspective and learn a bit of the history around the publishing of the book.
Definitely love to see more of these. Though you spoke to this a bit its especially interesting to hear about your personal feelings, what images you find most meaningful and why.
I enjoyed this a lot. I've always been interested in the repetitive nature of the democratic forest, I feel like there is definitely something to the absence of people that adds a surreal quality to the work I can't quite put my finger on. Would love to see more content like this
This was amazing! Eggleston is my favourite photographer and you've made me see more things in his photos. I am fascinated by the question of how far the editing of the pictures is relevant to the understanding of his photos. Maybe one should not see his "democratic" approach as a "concept" (i.e. as opposed to photographing a certain subject matter) but really as the absense of a concept - I mean, he was not intellectual about his pictures and he didn't care much about the editing, both of which would make sense if he were persuing a concept. To me it seems that Eggleston's choices of what to shoot/what composition to use etc. were determined to a particulary large part by his subconscious. It seems like he would shoot something because it "spoke" to him in a way that he was probably not able to explain himself (and that would maybe only become more banal when attempted to be explained). What, to me, supports this thesis is that he shot very fast, almost passing by, and that he was very reluctant to talk about the meaning of his photos. If seen that way, the point is not that he shoots an oven, because it's as interesting a subject as anything else, but because that particular oven at that moment in that light corresponded to a diffuse, maybe subconscious, emotion that he had (that to you in the video translated to "suicidal"). To me that makes sense, because even his most "challenging" photographs, that don't have any quality that I can rationally grasp like beauty, surprise, interesting colour or subject matter etc., they still have an emotional quality that speaks to me. As far as editing is concerned, the job of the editor would not be to find something like "coherence" or "a story", but rather to replicate the experience of obliviously drifting through a day, with no sense of time, direction or purpose and no interference to the stream of consciousness - just like a child playing outside all day. (Which I guess is just what you said in your video.) Maybe the best way to present his photos would be either in the order they were taken on that day, or randomly (i.e. by a random generator on a screen, different every time you watch them). Or you could see the editing process as an attempt at psychoanalysis and try to find a subject matter in the potentially subconscious choices that went into the photos - which is maybe what happened in the case of the guide, where the editor distilled the subjct matter of boyhood and the mix of nostaliga and anxiety that goes with the transition from boyhood to adulthood. Anyway, I was inspired by your rambling to ramble on a bit. I'll get a coffee and look through the "Guide" now, I think.
Currently being sold by Amazon this October 2022 for £ 95.00 GBP.....
I didn’t realise he didn’t edit the books. It’s created a bit of a push pull to how I feel about Eggleston’s work. On the one hand, if he can’t pick what’s good or worth seeing, how does the viewer get a feeling of the photographer or understand what they are being shown. On the other hand, it’s totally Egglestone, just churning out images with a take it or leave it attitude, which is kinda great in a way. I have an image in my mind of a photographer, slightly in the distance, seemingly shuffling along with a camera loosely at his eye so you can’t see his face, with a trail of prints behind him, just discarded on the floor for someone to pick up or not.
This was helpful, thanks!
Brilliant! Loved this! It's so reassuring to hear you say that certain books by Eggleston are "relentless." That means I'm not stupid or tasteless to also have trouble with certain books. I liked the kind of editorial overview you gave here, flipping through a lot of photos. I'd also love to see you spend time on just a few photos to give close readings.
Good idea
Yes! The addition of a few photos closely observed would be valuable. Or maybe that’s a whole separate video. The “sequel.”
Hi, Alec. I am your fan who lives in Korea. I like your books so much. I felt your images as much as I could at the photo library today. I love that I can see you often on RUclips. Instagram feels so hectic and crowded. I'll look forward to your move.
Alec, listening to you talk about your photography and other photographers is a pleasure. You always speaks with openness and sincerity. I want to hear you talk more about book editing, but also about photography in general. It is very important what you are doing, for everyone who is interested in photography.
Thank you
Thank you for your time and for sharing your knowledge, analyse and thoughts. This was extremely interesting. Good food for thought!
It's so easy to get lost in the technologies and practices of photography. Thank you for reminding me to look at photographs. More, please.
Ha! Never thought I would skip a bit in an Alec Soth video - but I have Election Eve hidden away for my birthday and didn’t want any spoilers :)
Thanks for creating this deep dive and sight!
I definitely enjoy your views on various photographers. Will you at some point discuss Luigi Ghirri. Perhaps, his Kodachrome book.
Awesome. I have gone through my Eggleston's guide copy while you were explaining it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Robert Adams, Henry Wessel, and the new topographics. Thank you for this video, Alec.
Thanks - Would love to talk about both those fellas
Thank you! Unfortunately I had to stop at 31:36 because I'm waiting Eggleston's Guide.
My first reaction was comparable to the tale of the Emerors New Clothes, in that the majority of Eggleston's photos are just snaps with no particular merit.
However, I've gained an appreciation of his work but that's as far as it goes.
Someone else summed Eggleston up as the Best Worst Photographer in the world, which is very apt... next to my photos, of course.
You just can't please everyone all the time.
when you talk about giving over control of the editing and how that might affect the book it made me think of Larry Sultan and Mike Mandel's photo book "Evidence" which is entirely comprised of appropriated images from archives. It isn't their photography but by editing the content they created art. In that regard we could think of The Democratic Forest as more of a work by Holborn than Eggleston.
Thank you very much for this video Mr.Soth♥️, beautiful photobook and wonderful commentary, I hope there will be many more🙏🏻Greetings from Italy 👋🏻
Dear Alec, just two days ago I have found out you have a youtube channel. I have binged instantly all your videos. I can ´t even described how I feel. Thank you, thank you. Please continue talking about the books from your collection. My best regards, Miroslav
Will do, thanks Miroslav
Once we understand his perspective, nothing is challenging, nothing is strange, nothing is hard to like and there’s no mistake into the sequence. There’s not even the desire of being curious of the other 10.000 photographs. It just makes sense and we see the flow appearing. It explains why it could be edited by someone else’s and why there’s so many books. The choice is not important. Our judgement and desire to find an explanation based on concept is misleading us to fail into the correct interpretation. Classifying the photographs into like « Interior » is really a mean joke but also giving a clue toward the solution. The edit without knowing how has done it after knowing who did it for the other ones, is also a clue. Same photographs, different edit is also a clue. The ennemies are our expectations, our déductives mind, our taste and them editing in a way that it is misleading but also genius way that makes his perspective blend into his highest standards photographs. Thank you for the inspiration and the ranting that is pure magnesium black fire starter for some minds. This is daunting and freeing at the time. Only making it ours will ease the feeling and tension.
I love the euphemism “very challenging pictures”... 😂
The original Democratic Forest is a hot mess, and Eggleston’s Guide is in my top 3.
I am a simple man and like the third version of DF most ;) this book made me go out and start taking photos so will always be more then just a book for me. Also I always knew that i would buy the 10 books version one day but I am a little intimidated by it now! Maybe it's still too early for me...I really appreciate this lecture - please share more of your insights on books with us! :)
As a retired UPI photographer and an Alec Soth fan, I enjoyed this talk greatly! as the books were sometimes tough to understand, a lot was sorted out for me by Alec's words. Rambling and Democratic with the best photos acknowledged!...
You should make more of these. I much prefer the narrative sequencing of William Eggleston's Guide to the other two edits although the location, subject matter, and color palette matching of the box set can also be pleasant. I just find a lot of Eggleston's "challenging" pictures sloppy and boring. I definitely see the landscape and portraiture connection to your own work. I'd love for you to analyze some Winogrand books as (1) he was a prolific shooter like Eggleston, 2) he hated to edit and left it up to others to dig through his negatives, (3) John Szarkowski also edited Winogrand's work, and (4) the Winogrand books are not widely available. I suppose I could look up people flipping through them.
Mind blown. To borrow your words, this was seriously challenging. Thanks?
Alec Soth cracked the challenge that stumped Walker Evans, in this interview: “Do you think in photographing, say, suburban America - which is a very wide part of American life today - you could use the same approach, of just looking at the very surface to portray it?
W.E.: It doesn’t work. I’ve tried. I thought, “Here’s a great, significant sector of America,” but I’ve been bored looking at the work of those who have done it and I’ve been bored with my own work... But I can’t imagine myself photographing a group of people sitting around a country club, or whatever they call it. I’ve never found them satirical enough material.” I thought of “Bill. St. Louis Park, Minnesota” in Looking for Love.
americansuburbx.com/2011/10/interview-walker-evans-with-students.html?fb_ref=03915d3aa318410996e34e9704d8ceb7-Twitter
That's a fascinating quote Richard. I've never read it before.