I've been youtube diving looking for reviews of the Zen 3.0 and Antix 2.0 since I'm trying to decide what I want - and there are no demo boats in the UK at the moment :-). This was the most useful review in giving a real context for the Zen. Keep up the good work!
Nice review. I like the comparison to the Nirvana, and the comments about rolling since it is so wide. My only suggestions would be that you begin by telling us your deets (weight, height, shoe size), and also what size boat you paddled. Also, should probably look up specs on the boat before video. You mentioned length a lot, but didn’t know how long it is. I’m assuming you were in a Medium, which is 8’ 5” and 27” wide (89 gallons) for those wondering. 😉✌🏼
Yes this would be helpful, I have tried to find info on boats and gear, but it is always heavily bias. I get it, but an honest review, even comparing it to other Jackson boats is very helpful. I have debated over this one or a nirvana, and this is the first time someone has answered they "Why?" for each. I was worried it wouldn't roll just looking at the width, but you have convinced me to at least give it a try. Now if only Utah had water this time of year! also thanks for including video with it, it really drives it home other reviewers don't show the gear in action. with it being shorter can you surf it and play with it a bit? It's been cool to see everyone play with the antix and show what else it can do.
This video was really helpful for me as I'm just getting into water water kayaking. How does the Zen 3.0 compare to the Gnarvana or Dagger Code for a total new paddler? Thank you.
Thanks for the review/info! 5’11” 185-190lbs - would a Medium size be good for some class II-III overnight trips? I’m always in between weight ranges on creekers it seems.
I’m about the same size. I would say yea it will probably be fine. It since it’s now 2022 I’d recommend the Gnarvana as well. Gnarvana definitely my go to over the Zen3.0
Thanks son much !! The might be my first boat . I’ll be paddling on the East Coast , class 1-3 , maybe 4 one day . I’m short 5’3’’ 150 lbs , so I’m looking at a used small for about $750 , 2018 model . Sound good? Thanks!! Todd
Seth Ashworth, I am not new to paddling (20+ years, but not a hair boater), and got a small Zen about 1.5 to 2 years ago. I have to admit that on the Ocoee, I have had to do a lot of fighting to keep it online. It just doesn't seem to respond. I get tossed around on the bigger waves, and have had a couple of difficult swims at Tablesaw. Even on some other rivers I've had issues fighting to keep it online. I have moved the seat, (now moving it again), tightening myself up in the boat with more foam, and may add a little bit of height in my seat if it seems necessary. I am 5'3" and 109 lbs. If you have any suggestions or comments, I would certainly welcome them. Thank you so much!!
The small version of this boat will be right up your alley. I think there are already a few of them floating around the south east. Hit up Stephen Wright on Facebook I think he has one right now at least.
Hey Seth - Good review. I'm considering the Zen 3. I've got an eye on a used boat. New to paddling so this seems to be an ideal boat to learn on. Most of my paddling will be on the American River in California. I am curious about your Indonesia trip. I've been to Sumatra many times (my wife is from Medan) and was wondering about paddling opportunities there. Any beta you can share would be appreciated. 🤙
Right on Todd, there is definitely some paddling Sumatra, and I think Java even has its own kayaking club. Worth a Google. . . Zen 3 is a solid first boat, also recommend looking at Antix 2.0 as another great first boat option.
@@SethAshworth Thanks Seth 🙏 I'll check out the Antix. Have you considered Sungai Alas in Aceh? I'm sure Kalimantan and Papua have untapped opportunities. Just watched the Sumatra video 👍. Sorry you got sick. It happens.
@@toddwinslow9974 there is definitely a lot of room for exploring but the jungle is so incredibly dense more than any where else I have been before. It’s out there though
@@SethAshworth The logistical challenges are possibly some of the most difficult to be encountered. A real "suffer fest" for sure. Add to that cultural and language. Sanitation is a big factor as well. In the end, I suppose that is what makes adventure travel so rewarding.
Thanks Seth , best review on the zen 3 I’ve seen so far I really like the fact that you told about the easy to roll because I don’t like to swim and my roll is about 50 50 , also nice clips along with the other information
The z3 is not easy to roll when compared to smaller narrower boats. Not saying u shouldnt get one but expect it likely to be harder than what u r rolling now
So I’m looking at building the quiver up to some new boats. Been paddling a old school Overflow and a Scud. I’m liking the Rewind, Homslice, Ozone for some river play and the New Zen/Nomad as my creeker. Thoughts on the river play ones and the Zen/Nomad for my creeker. Thanks
It is an easy boat to jump into and go give'r, I would say ideal if you have a few things you are paddling as there is little to no lag time from jumping in it after being in another boat for a while
the first thing I noticed is the medium 3.0 is made to carry as much weight as the large 2.0! as I don't run huge drops all that much anymore, my large zen 2.0 (9ft!) feels a tad long.
Hey Seth, thanks for this review. I am in the market for a creek boat, sounds like the ZEN3 is good fit except for the width profile. I have short arms and had a slightly wide wavesport fuse, found it hard to roll up at times. Any other recommendations of small creekers for a smaller person like me? (166cm, 125lbs) Thanks!
The small version of this boat will be boss for you at a smaller size. Don't be put off by the numbers and actually try one out, it is easy to paddle and very forgiving. Because of the seat/knee position, distance rail to rail, seat height and some other factors it makes those numbers hard to interpret because they don't give an accurate idea of how it feels to paddle. I am sure you will dig it.
Thanks Seth. Top review. Ugliest ? I didn't think the Karma looked all that pretty but I still bought one for the wife because of how it suited her to paddle.
Hello Seth, appreciate all the time you take to provide information. It helps a lot of people who don’t have regular access to an outfitter get information. I am looking to add a kayak to my canoe collection to be more safe on class II and maybe venture into class III but never above. I would be going out to enjoy the river safely and not to perfect my WW techniques to try and move up to class IV or V. I initially was just going to get a crossover but through researching, seems like it basically isn’t ideal for either flat or ww. The Zen 3 seems to fit the bill? Stable, will hide some imperfections in technique and won’t tip? My only concern might be it’s performance on slower moving creeks and rivers. Is the Zen 3 considerably impossible to track in a straight line on class I/flat water? Would any of the comparable kayaks (Mamba/Remix) be a better option?
Great questions here and some valid concerns let me tell you my 2 cents for what it is worth. You can take it or leave it of course. 1. I think there is a special niche for crossover kayaks and it is certainly not the one boat for all things, to say it does everything poorly is unfair but it is certainly master of none imo. 2. Is Z3 a stable/easy to paddle/forgiving boat? Yes absolutely, will it hide some technique flaws and maybe slow our progress in the longer term? Maybe but if you were paddling it less than say every weekend of the year it will probably not be that noticeable of a difference. 3: Will it be easy to go straight? Im gonna let you in on a secret here, no whitewater kayak is designed to go straight, they are designed to be easy to turn because that is the bulk of the work in WW paddling. Does that mean they cannot go straight, HELL NO! But the first time you paddle it, you might feel as though it has a mind of its own. by the third or fourth time you should have it figured out and correcting your direction with a sweet stroke and of course LOOK WHERE YOU ARE GOING which is one of my main teaching thesis points. 4: Will another WW boat be better for me? Ultimately choose whatever fits you r size and your budget best. As i mentioned in the video I am supported by Jackson so thats what I would steer you toward but if you can try other stuff out try it out, just make sure it is the right size for you and have fun. hope that helps.
@@SethAshworth Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely helps a lot. " Does that mean they cannot go straight, HELL NO! But the first time you paddle it, you might feel as though it has a mind of its own. by the third or fourth time you should have it figured out" Great to hear. This was my only real concern. I know WW boats aren't intended to track on flat water (I have other boats for pure flatwater) but was just wondering if the Zen would endlessly want to spin in circles on stretches of river with little current. If I could pose two additional questions. The Jackson Nirvana. More racing style boat in comparison to the Zen; the Nirvana seems to like to go faster and straighter in WW and is a little narrower. Would a Nirvana be easier to track on flatwater stretches, or would the difference be negligible? If I were to go with the Zen. I am 6'1 190lbs. Seems like I could do either the medium or large. Which would you recommend?
@@michaelr4950 Great follow up questions: 1: There is a difference but honestly it will not make a HUGE difference for what you are looking for. 2: Yea M or L would probably be fine. You are a little bigger than me (5,11 175) but I think you could get away with either. Proabably M Nirvana if you went that route or M or L Z3. Try them both out if you can. hope that helps.
Great question. The answer is kind of the same with every boat though. The difficulty of whitewater a boat can go down is determined by the skill of the paddler. Around the time of this hosts release there were lots of paddles taking it on the hardest whitewater. Dane ran an incredible first descent on the Indus River in Pakistan in one of these. Hayden Voorhees has a bunch of hard runs in one. Tom Dolle too has many on his RUclips channel from a couple years back. Design helps but ultimately what you can do comes down to you
@SethAshworth thank you Seth. I kind of new that in my gut. I guess I was kind of looking for confirmation. I've told a few of my friends the same thing, "it kinda depends who's in the boat. " Again thank you.
thanks for the disclaimer in the beginning. biased "reviews" always are a sore to my eyes. maybe even change the video title? (e.g. "my thoughts on", "zen 3: my verdict", "what i love/hate")
Scott Toland thanks for taking the time to watch the video and leave a comment. I’ll do my best to tighten up. For future reference what parts specifically did you find to be not useful?
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I've been youtube diving looking for reviews of the Zen 3.0 and Antix 2.0 since I'm trying to decide what I want - and there are no demo boats in the UK at the moment :-). This was the most useful review in giving a real context for the Zen. Keep up the good work!
Both fun boats but for different uses I’d say.
Nice review. I like the comparison to the Nirvana, and the comments about rolling since it is so wide. My only suggestions would be that you begin by telling us your deets (weight, height, shoe size), and also what size boat you paddled. Also, should probably look up specs on the boat before video. You mentioned length a lot, but didn’t know how long it is. I’m assuming you were in a Medium, which is 8’ 5” and 27” wide (89 gallons) for those wondering. 😉✌🏼
Yea for sure! I am 5ft 11in, 165lbs, shoe size about 10.5.
Thanks bud, stay upright
You too, thanks for watching!
Yes this would be helpful, I have tried to find info on boats and gear, but it is always heavily bias. I get it, but an honest review, even comparing it to other Jackson boats is very helpful. I have debated over this one or a nirvana, and this is the first time someone has answered they "Why?" for each. I was worried it wouldn't roll just looking at the width, but you have convinced me to at least give it a try. Now if only Utah had water this time of year! also thanks for including video with it, it really drives it home other reviewers don't show the gear in action. with it being shorter can you surf it and play with it a bit? It's been cool to see everyone play with the antix and show what else it can do.
Glad it helped you a bit, let me know if there is other gear things you want me to dig into!!
This video was really helpful for me as I'm just getting into water water kayaking. How does the Zen 3.0 compare to the Gnarvana or Dagger Code for a total new paddler? Thank you.
Great review Seth cheers from Argentina ! nice to see you !
FedexMza gracias!
Calling Jackson's boat ugly, the company might not like that, haha. Great review, thanks for posting it.
1stVARifleman it does look horrible though. Luckily it paddled Better than it looks!
Thanks for the review/info! 5’11” 185-190lbs - would a Medium size be good for some class II-III overnight trips? I’m always in between weight ranges on creekers it seems.
I’m about the same size. I would say yea it will probably be fine. It since it’s now 2022 I’d recommend the Gnarvana as well. Gnarvana definitely my go to over the Zen3.0
@@SethAshworth - thanks as always! Keep the vids goin 💪! 🫵🫡🤘🛶
@@wolfriveroutdoors fingers crossed back on track soon
Thanks son much !! The might be my first boat .
I’ll be paddling on the East Coast , class 1-3 , maybe 4 one day .
I’m short 5’3’’ 150 lbs , so I’m looking at a used small for about $750 , 2018 model .
Sound good? Thanks!! Todd
Seth Ashworth, I am not new to paddling (20+ years, but not a hair boater), and got a small Zen about 1.5 to 2 years ago. I have to admit that on the Ocoee, I have had to do a lot of fighting to keep it online. It just doesn't seem to respond. I get tossed around on the bigger waves, and have had a couple of difficult swims at Tablesaw. Even on some other rivers I've had issues fighting to keep it online. I have moved the seat, (now moving it again), tightening myself up in the boat with more foam, and may add a little bit of height in my seat if it seems necessary. I am 5'3" and 109 lbs. If you have any suggestions or comments, I would certainly welcome them. Thank you so much!!
The small version of this boat will be right up your alley. I think there are already a few of them floating around the south east. Hit up Stephen Wright on Facebook I think he has one right now at least.
Hey Seth - Good review. I'm considering the Zen 3. I've got an eye on a used boat. New to paddling so this seems to be an ideal boat to learn on. Most of my paddling will be on the American River in California. I am curious about your Indonesia trip. I've been to Sumatra many times (my wife is from Medan) and was wondering about paddling opportunities there. Any beta you can share would be appreciated. 🤙
Right on Todd, there is definitely some paddling Sumatra, and I think Java even has its own kayaking club. Worth a Google. .
.
Zen 3 is a solid first boat, also recommend looking at Antix 2.0 as another great first boat option.
@@SethAshworth Thanks Seth 🙏 I'll check out the Antix. Have you considered Sungai Alas in Aceh? I'm sure Kalimantan and Papua have untapped opportunities. Just watched the Sumatra video 👍. Sorry you got sick. It happens.
@@toddwinslow9974 there is definitely a lot of room for exploring but the jungle is so incredibly dense more than any where else I have been before. It’s out there though
@@SethAshworth The logistical challenges are possibly some of the most difficult to be encountered. A real "suffer fest" for sure. Add to that cultural and language. Sanitation is a big factor as well. In the end, I suppose that is what makes adventure travel so rewarding.
Thanks Seth , best review on the zen 3 I’ve seen so far I really like the fact that you told about the easy to roll because I don’t like to swim and my roll is about 50 50 , also nice clips along with the other information
Thanks for watching!!
The z3 is not easy to roll when compared to smaller narrower boats. Not saying u shouldnt get one but expect it likely to be harder than what u r rolling now
So I’m looking at building the quiver up to some new boats. Been paddling a old school Overflow and a Scud. I’m liking the Rewind, Homslice, Ozone for some river play and the New Zen/Nomad as my creeker. Thoughts on the river play ones and the Zen/Nomad for my creeker. Thanks
It is an easy boat to jump into and go give'r, I would say ideal if you have a few things you are paddling as there is little to no lag time from jumping in it after being in another boat for a while
Seth Ashworth thanks.
the first thing I noticed is the medium 3.0 is made to carry as much weight as the large 2.0! as I don't run huge drops all that much anymore, my large zen 2.0 (9ft!) feels a tad long.
Colten Todhunter yea it feels super different!
Hey Seth, thanks for this review. I am in the market for a creek boat, sounds like the ZEN3 is good fit except for the width profile. I have short arms and had a slightly wide wavesport fuse, found it hard to roll up at times. Any other recommendations of small creekers for a smaller person like me? (166cm, 125lbs) Thanks!
The small version of this boat will be boss for you at a smaller size. Don't be put off by the numbers and actually try one out, it is easy to paddle and very forgiving. Because of the seat/knee position, distance rail to rail, seat height and some other factors it makes those numbers hard to interpret because they don't give an accurate idea of how it feels to paddle. I am sure you will dig it.
Thanks Seth. Top review. Ugliest ? I didn't think the Karma looked all that pretty but I still bought one for the wife because of how it suited her to paddle.
Don't get me wrong, it's fun to paddle. Just not to look at...
Hello Seth, appreciate all the time you take to provide information. It helps a lot of people who don’t have regular access to an outfitter get information.
I am looking to add a kayak to my canoe collection to be more safe on class II and maybe venture into class III but never above. I would be going out to enjoy the river safely and not to perfect my WW techniques to try and move up to class IV or V.
I initially was just going to get a crossover but through researching, seems like it basically isn’t ideal for either flat or ww. The Zen 3 seems to fit the bill? Stable, will hide some imperfections in technique and won’t tip?
My only concern might be it’s performance on slower moving creeks and rivers. Is the Zen 3 considerably impossible to track in a straight line on class I/flat water? Would any of the comparable kayaks (Mamba/Remix) be a better option?
Great questions here and some valid concerns let me tell you my 2 cents for what it is worth. You can take it or leave it of course.
1. I think there is a special niche for crossover kayaks and it is certainly not the one boat for all things, to say it does everything poorly is unfair but it is certainly master of none imo.
2. Is Z3 a stable/easy to paddle/forgiving boat? Yes absolutely, will it hide some technique flaws and maybe slow our progress in the longer term? Maybe but if you were paddling it less than say every weekend of the year it will probably not be that noticeable of a difference.
3: Will it be easy to go straight? Im gonna let you in on a secret here, no whitewater kayak is designed to go straight, they are designed to be easy to turn because that is the bulk of the work in WW paddling. Does that mean they cannot go straight, HELL NO! But the first time you paddle it, you might feel as though it has a mind of its own. by the third or fourth time you should have it figured out and correcting your direction with a sweet stroke and of course LOOK WHERE YOU ARE GOING which is one of my main teaching thesis points.
4: Will another WW boat be better for me? Ultimately choose whatever fits you r size and your budget best. As i mentioned in the video I am supported by Jackson so thats what I would steer you toward but if you can try other stuff out try it out, just make sure it is the right size for you and have fun. hope that helps.
@@SethAshworth Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely helps a lot. " Does that mean they cannot go straight, HELL NO! But the first time you paddle it, you might feel as though it has a mind of its own. by the third or fourth time you should have it figured out" Great to hear. This was my only real concern. I know WW boats aren't intended to track on flat water (I have other boats for pure flatwater) but was just wondering if the Zen would endlessly want to spin in circles on stretches of river with little current.
If I could pose two additional questions. The Jackson Nirvana. More racing style boat in comparison to the Zen; the Nirvana seems to like to go faster and straighter in WW and is a little narrower. Would a Nirvana be easier to track on flatwater stretches, or would the difference be negligible? If I were to go with the Zen. I am 6'1 190lbs. Seems like I could do either the medium or large. Which would you recommend?
@@michaelr4950 Great follow up questions:
1: There is a difference but honestly it will not make a HUGE difference for what you are looking for.
2: Yea M or L would probably be fine. You are a little bigger than me (5,11 175) but I think you could get away with either. Proabably M Nirvana if you went that route or M or L Z3. Try them both out if you can. hope that helps.
Is there a new Zen coming out anytime soon?
ryan potochnik zen 3.0 just came out last year. Not expecting it to be redesigned for a few years. I would guess at least
I'm 1.83 and weigh 193 pounds what size would be ideal for my M or L? thanks
Just tried to roll a z3 in a pool. It is not easy to roll when compared to other boats. Isnt easy to roll better for a beginner?
I guess easy is relative but i thought it was easy.
I am 5'11' and 220 lbs. I bought a Z3 and found that adding knee blocks to narrow up my knees helped a lot.
@@johngillerman4288Hi John did you go medium or large? I went large but not sure I made the right decision.
Seth ,, question for you. What class whitewater is this boat okay to use in ? Three, four, maybe five? What do you think mate.
Great question. The answer is kind of the same with every boat though. The difficulty of whitewater a boat can go down is determined by the skill of the paddler. Around the time of this hosts release there were lots of paddles taking it on the hardest whitewater. Dane ran an incredible first descent on the Indus River in Pakistan in one of these. Hayden Voorhees has a bunch of hard runs in one. Tom Dolle too has many on his RUclips channel from a couple years back. Design helps but ultimately what you can do comes down to you
@SethAshworth thank you Seth. I kind of new that in my gut. I guess I was kind of looking for confirmation. I've told a few of my friends the same thing, "it kinda depends who's in the boat. " Again thank you.
How can we find a whitewater boater in such a frigid environment?
Stay warm pal!!
thanks for the disclaimer in the beginning. biased "reviews" always are a sore to my eyes.
maybe even change the video title? (e.g. "my thoughts on", "zen 3: my verdict", "what i love/hate")
Thanks for checking it out. I stand by the title though. I do think it is important for people to know about those biases before starting though
!
Cut to the chase already! Tighten up your edits please. But thanks for the review.
Scott Toland thanks for taking the time to watch the video and leave a comment. I’ll do my best to tighten up. For future reference what parts specifically did you find to be not useful?
I disagree, I liked it, I liked that you talked over the different attributes and when and why it would be useful. I found it just right.