Sometimes, when I just pick up my lightsaber to swing it around, I constantly find myself moving from using German Longsword forms to these forms. They are all just nice moves and I like feeling the differences in movement.
I want to refute you because Lightsaber styles were written about in the first DK Star Wars guide I think....but I don't own the Phantom Menace Guide anymore.
@@daviddent5662 according to my 30 second research just now, the first mention of the forms was from Star Wars insider 62 in 2002 mentioning form 2 in regards to attack of the clones
No he did not know how to sword fight an actor training to sword fight for a movie is not learning how to sword fight. Christopher Lee simply looked good because he played defenses in a lot of movie.
I love Makashi. It’s definitely one of my favorite forms. I fell in love with it watching Dooku use it so elegantly in Episode II and, through my studies of the Form, have come to love it that much more.
@@kawaraetoiaNot at all. That's the reason why Dooku's lightsaber had a pistol grip from real fencing sabers. To make it easier and more common for old man to perform
@@user-jv7se6ft9t Pretty sure some of dooku's dueling shots were done by another trained swordsman, but you're exactly right. You would still need Christopher Lee to perform some of the dueling to get the shots with his face clearly in it. Plus any shots where he is in a dueling stance and seen holding his saber whilst also talking would certainly be made easier if the 80 year old actor is already familiar with those poses.
@@user-jv7se6ft9t I hate to say it but he is right they used a double. Lee himself talked about it. In an interview he said "I have done more sword fights than any other actor, but not any more." All those scenes were a double with his face superimposed.
Pretty sure he would be a lightsaber master more than just a sith. He never embraced the Sith ideology in the movies. Hence why his eyes never changed in the movies.
Light saber duels are probably a lot trickier in lore than we usually consider because the vast majority of users are obviously gonna be force sensitive. With the force you have everything about you enhanced, which only increases with mastery. They often get a few minutes or few seconds of foresight, which means that it's harder to throw your opponent off.
Even in fencing its hard to read anything.So this argument is genuinely bs.Fencing has millions of moves and its hard to predict them.But huge swings are so easy to read and counter.Fencing you can change angles in microseconds making it hard to know where they will attack.Star wars uses big swings which literally leaves them so open.Not to mention the failure to keep their distances at the right time.This argument is useless in my opinion
Lucas was originally going to say Light Sabers gained mass and a gyroscopic force when activated making them much more difficult for a non-force user to use. Explaining the Two Handed fighting style used.
For future lightsaber duels, I hope Disney really embraces historic swordfighting technique. Imagine how cool it would be to see someone switching between several styles in the span of a single fight
Actually, there is an example of this sorta style in Jedi Survivor, when Cal Kestis uses his blaster stance. While using his blaster in the offhand, he thrusts and swipes with the saber in his main hand.
Yeah it really reminded me of rapier. Apparently it is based on actual rapier and pistol fighting style, although blaster wasn't used as a guard in reverse grip.
@@AlexGrom to be fair, using a blaster as a guard would be kinda useless. melee weapons in star wars are either electrified, which would conduct through the blaster (probably), or lightsabers which... you can't really guard against.
glad you brought up smallsword. super underrated for lightsaber inspiration given how its a style BASED around having a lighter blade (pun semi intended) and extreme finesse. Its like a style MADE for a plasma blade.
Except that cuts are completely absent, while the lightsaber cuts pretty well. Probably a style based on the "sciabola da terreno" (the duelling sabre, much lighter than the military sabre) would be more appropriate.
It's crazy when you think about how so many lightsaber forms rely on force sensitivity, where you're basically play extradimensional chess by constantly trying to outpredict your opponents next 20 moves. And then there's us who have no force powers and just wonder why we don't aim for a quick lunge to the leg or fingers more often😂😂😂😂
I had someone who learned lightsaber choreography techniques from people who worked on the movies say that the fights from the prequels were choreographed with force-sensitive, borderline precognition in mind, which is part of why you see Jedi and Sith change directions and go on for another strike the moment their strike doesn't go through. Ordinarily, you'd want to leave even a half-second pause in between blows to convey the fighters registering that a hit didn't go through, but a force user knows their hit doesn't work almost just BEFORE it's blocked or dodged.
Form II Makashi always seemed like the most practical and effective style of lightsaber combat to me, and Dooku’s lightsaber is my favorite as well! Thanks for showing your fancy footwork and elegant bladework skills.
Not sure about Disney's canon, but in the Legends, Form II was litterally designed as the duellist form. It's purpose was litterally to be the form suited to face a lightsaber wielding opponnent. That's also why the council wasn't fond of Dooku specializing in it, they saw it as pride and aggression as the only opponents that would justify the use of this form were other jedi (as they thought the Sith to be extinct), thus making the only interest of studying this form be the will to best the other jedis in duels.
@@raphaeldevillele9093which is also funny, as Dooku was one of the few Jedi who still anticipated the siths return. Perhaps it was prideful of him to think he'd be the one to do it, but it clearly put him above his peers in the future.
Form II is precision engineered for saber combat. It suffers a bit against blasters, so being a pure specialist like Dooku is generally unviable, but it works wonders in saber duels. The only forms that can score the advantage against Form II are Form V and probably Form VII just from sheer overwhelming force, and you have to be REALLY good to make it work. Meanwhile, Form II hard counters Forms I, II, and IV.
A big part of why lightsaber fights are long and flashy is because force users have such good reflexes and can sense each others moves. So in order to win a lightsaber fight especially between two very experienced force wielders one opponent is going to need to outsmart or outlast the other which is why most of the time it seems like they're just toying with each other, because they are
For an in universe explanation as to why thrusting is rare for lightsabers, you could argue that because they often have to weave in blaster deflections it makes more sense to be in a cutting motion generally, rather than a thrusting. I’m not a huge sword person, so I don’t know how hard it would be to transition to the types of moves generally used for blaster deflection to cutting/thrusting, but it would make sense to me that more cutting type movements that keep the blade less perpendicular to your body would make it easier to go to blocking the blaster bolts. On top of that, I think the blade is even more deadly than the point on a light saber since it just cuts through everything, since there’s basically no resistance (at least not against body parts) cutting is better than thrusting because you just have more surface area of damage. A lightsaber blow to the stomach might not instantly kill them, but slashing them on half at the stomach will. And lastly, a big advantage of thrusting is it’s harder to block, but lightsaber users, broadly speaking, are force users, which means they fight while seeing a little into the future. So similar to how they can block blaster shots, thrusts wouldn’t generally be more difficult to block when compared to slashes. So I think if you really wanted to there’s some good explanations for mainly using slashing (though no idea why two handed, maybe despite the weightlessness of the actual blade hitting both blaster shots and other lightsabers creates enough force to justify it?). That said, it would be interesting to see some more thrust based styles, maybe particularly anti lightsaber wielder styles, where the trade off is they can’t really be used with lots of ambient blaster fire to dodge, but in a 1v1 duel situation they shine compared to slashing styles because thrusting allows for greater reach and you could make multiple attacks quickly. And maybe it is harder to parry when compared to blaster fire since the person attacking also is predicting the future and using that to determine how they attack
The ironic thing is that was a chief element of Niman, incorporating force attacks into lightsaber combat. I say "ironic" because, in Legends, Makashi was the one form Niman did not take elements from. It took elements from Shii-Cho, Soresu, Ataru, and Shien/Djem So, but apparently not Makashi.
It was cool to see Ashoka using the force to basically grab her lightsaber & do a sort of half-swording technique. It was a creative way to see the writers using “the force” in a lightsaber fight
I believe they mention somewhere in the lore that it takes an immense use of force to wield and control a lightsaber and the actual weight doesn't matter that much. Maybe they are representing this. Imagining the light being weightless, I think it would be easier moving it erratically, like playing with a flashlight
I'd love a whole series for the rest of the forms. Either matching historic styles to the form, or rather substituting a historical style to reimagine the lightsaber form as better
In the starwars world I think it because of the weight of lightsabers while ignited. I also think training experience and force control training is also something that add to the control of a light saber while ignited. In the madalorian we see signs of this with din jarin when using the dark saber while ignited compared to when its not ignited.
I would LOVE to see someone use Tai Chi sword for Lightsaber combat. It emphasizes maintaining blade to blade contact and using bind work to find a thrust or cut line. Imagine hand trapping, just done with swords - and because the bind work is done with the blade, it doesn't rely on having a big cross-guard. I have no idea how practical it actually is, but it LOOKS really cool 😅
Oh yeah, Matt Easton had videos about how a jian is supposed to work. Generally the jian is a very light sword, lighter than the rapier (unsurprisingly given the lack of complex hilt), and if you believe that Jedi can wield lightsabers like super light plasma swords, then why not have Jedi that use lightsabers like jians?
@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight It also has the benefit of looking incredibly serene when performed - so it would be a perfect style for the older Jedi Masters. I always thought Dooku should look more like the Rapier masters - similar levels of control but with much more aggressive intent, given that he's a sith by the time we meet him. German longsword suits Vader and Younger Luke perfectly, while older Luke would adopt the Jian style. It would allow for some actual variation with lightsaber combat as well. Unfortunately it requires fight choreographers who actually know this stuff 😅
@@yarikyaryi Oh, I'm tracking that - I didn't mean to say that Jian and Rapier look the same, just that both weapons are characterized by tight, precise movements.
@@yarikyaryi Hence why I said the jian is lighter than the rapier. Also, I practice sidesword, which is heavier than rapier. A jian is practically featherweight to me.
Y’know, I know you’ve probably already thought this up, but a video of Jedi demonstrating different forms and battling it out with an emphasis on the practical applicable approach on this channel would be rad. You could even make it a high republic era storyline, teaching some of the younglings you guys have in your videos and showing your interpretations of the different styles. That would be rad!
This was what Sir Lee was intending when he requested a curved hilt, and while the live action movies downplayed these styles, the Clone Wars cartoon really brought some of the styles that would be used with such a blade to life. I think immediately of the scene where Obi Wan and Anakin duel him atop some kind of facility as he makes his way to a ship and leaves. He is using sabre fencing moves, keeping a fluid defensive line between his two opponents, and cedeing ground strategically to allow the battle to push him back towards his own exit point while drawing the duo of opponents out by the appearance of advantage being relinquished to them. It is one of my favorite scenes from any of the animated features because it finally gets Lightsaber fencing as a concept, while shying away from the more kendo based movements we usually see.
The fact that loghtsaber has no false edge and the entire thing IS an edge is something used extremely well in prequel and completely squandered in the sequel.
I think I recall the canonical reason for lightsabers never making the kind of tight detailed movements posited in the video is that the energy blades actually exert a lot of irregular force as they move through air, making their momentum greater than a metal sword and difficult to control, kind of like the Darksaber as depicted in The Mandalorian, only a little less so. That’s also probably why non-Force-users don’t tend to use lightsabers as successfully, since use of the Force to direct their movement makes them more practical, and otherwise they’d be way more popular, although the rarity of kyber crystals is probably also supposed to have something to do with it.
From what I understand of the lore, lightsabers don't just block each other, they actually repel each other. If that is the case, then the two handed forms may actually be necessary to off-set the repulson effect. You are fighting with a weapon that doesn't just get deflected, it gets pushed with force roughly equal to the combined force of both combatant, or the force of the combatant and the inertial force of the blaster bolt, with a somewhat random shear effect. You may need both hands to compensate.
I always think a modified form of Kali would be great for single and double lightsaber choreography, fast, flashy, practical, and no edge alignment. I feel like a mix of saber and kali stickfighting would make for badass choreography.
Dooku was a very talented Form II user, the curved shape of his lightsaber hilt also gave him a big advantage. He mastered Form II to the perfection and had the perfect type of lightsaber to use it.
It’s strange in Star Wars, on one hand in real they’re light and can be easily wielded but on the other George Lucus said I believe that the light sabers were heavy with the force and wielded as such. Love the video my man.
The best part about the lightsaber is that the whole beam is a cutting edge. Need I say more? -Edit: I think some people have their comments bugged or something.-
Luckily lightsabers have difference lengths, 32" often being the more common one. Shoto is often used in a more defensive style when someone wants to duel wield with a 32" blade.
my biggest question for lightsabers has always been about weight. You'd think all the weight would be in nothing but the hilt. But its also space wizard magic using a crystal. If its crazy light, it should be almost a pure finesse weapon. like traditional fencing or rapier.
i just think there is one problem with presenting your hand extended all the time. rapiers and sabers had more elaborate handprotection that would prevent quick hand-snipes but a lightsaber has none.
i fee like this issue could be solved with a secondary eletrified guard feature on the saber. Similar ro those magna guard staffs or trooper stun batons.
Dooku was using fencing because the actor actually did sword fighting and the actor who played Dooku that's why his character had originally the curved lightsaber hilt to accommodate his fencing Style
In lore, lightsabers had weight, force gave the lightsaber weight. Also, it was also an act of will with physical effort to wield a lightsaber. Jedi and Sith developed lightsaber styles based around how the force was channeled and the intention of the wielder during the use of a lightsaber, serenity, anger, etc...
That’s why i love using the single saber and blaster stance in Jedi Survivor. I liked the idea of switching from a 1 handed grip to 2 handed for more power
Dooku's a big one to remember here. Not just because he was mostly one-handed, but because he straight-up designed his weapon specifically to coincide with his- and Christopher Lee's- fighting style preference of rapiers.
Me and my brother as kids had a bunch of lightsabers, so we would commonly go downstairs and then fight, and I remember specifically that as we did it longer, we went from swinging on each other wildly to dueling as if we were wielding rapiers, because the physics of the lightsaber made it seem much more similar to a rapier than a longsword.
NOW this is content id like to see more of. like analyzation of translations of tristise and match to the corresponding form. and you can coach technique to boot with blunt steel and saber to compare! :D
I believe the reason lightsabers are two handed is because while they aren’t incredibly heavy the light saber has a sort of pull like the recoil from shooting a gun but constantly so in order to better control the saber Jedi and Sith hold it with two hands
One important thing to keep in mind is that lightsabers are essentially superheated plasma who burn and don't cut. That's why any big swings are pretty much a waste, you don't have to do edge alignment or build up momentum for a deeper cut, if the lightsaber makes contact, it's going to cut.
As a sabre fencer, I always wondered why nobody ever thought about adding a small deflector shield that protects the hand! That would also produce some nice flashes if the opponents blade hit this "energy basket"!
In legends these styles were used more frequently by jedi sentinels. Essentially jedi who were balance in using the force and lightsaber when fighting. Form 2 was the primary form for most of them to keep the weak hand free for more control of force powers. Some famous users could even defend against a lightsaber using the force while striking with the light Saber. The equivilant of catching a blade without taking damage. Those stories were written by people who were a bit more knowledgeable about sword play generally
I feel like whenever Disney gets around to making their High Republic era show/movie, that we might see some of these incorporated into saber combat. Its supposed to be the height of the Jedi Order so Jedi were more "Knightly", giving them a chance to add some much needed diversity to Lightsaber duels
I kinda like Anakin Skywalker fighting style. He takes different styles of light saber forms and incorporates them into his preferred light saber form, or he would find areas and other forms that don’t provide the protection from blaster fires and he would refine that form to incorporate a way to defend against plier without ruining the form
Also having one hand for the lightsaber perfectly leaves your other hand open to do small stuff with the force like maybe pulling something down onto your opponent or pushing them away to create distance.
Have you ever considered making a fan made Star Wars movie? I really like the choreography ideas you have for lightsaber duels and am curious to know how you'd weave in force powers into your fencing/HEMA skills.
I always assumed it would be best to have a curved hilt like dooku so it’s an extension of your arm, and then you can literally wildly swing the thing around weaving around things you want to cut or stab. The weapon doesn’t need an edge or point to cut, stab, or slice. It will cut you no matter what you do. Stab through you like butter. You could move it around real fast and literally cut someone into ribbons.
I hope the other upcoming Star Wars movies if possible introduces a Makashi style lightsaber stance by a Jedi because I've just only seen it used by Count Dooku in the Star Wars Movies
The ting is you could switch clean between all attack styles since the blade doesn't really have a weight to it. You could swith from stabbing to slashing in on smooth move and the relatively low energy wouldn't matter since its a lightsaber that just melts through everything
You could do a Jar-Kai thing with the rapier and dagger by occasionally adding a shorter blade for your non-dominant hand. A slight bit like what Ahsoka Tano did!
Something that's consistent across canons is that the Lightsaber is actually heavier than it seems. There's a few different explanations, but, basically, the reason why it's handled like a longsword is because it FEELS heavy and has way more momentum than you'd expect. Doesn't explain the spins and flourishes, but it does explain two-handing the weapon.
So I would love to see a style that's at least somewhat reflective of the lightsabers purported qualities: the beams attract each other like magnets. The thing cuts in any which way. The blades are relatively short and essentially weightless. Can be deactivated (you can make the blade go bye bye). Imagine a style that took these into account. Thrusting would be preferred against defence because it'll "cut" anyway while avoiding the sticking, but you'd want to cover as much area as possible for defense. Disengaging, reengaging, and Sprouse attacks would be quite effective from the "closed" (off poison). The total lack of a guard would make still attacks the most obvious target rather than the body.
This is why Dooku is so bad ass.
He studied the Blade and the Lore.
In part because Christopher Lee was a proficient fencer
@@MPedich Exactly, Lee made Dooku even cooler.
@@MPedich Christopher Lee was such a treasure. I highly recommend listening to him read the Children of Hurin.
He didn't just study, he practiced it.
This is why I love him, he can make the character he's playing reall fucking good
Sometimes, when I just pick up my lightsaber to swing it around, I constantly find myself moving from using German Longsword forms to these forms. They are all just nice moves and I like feeling the differences in movement.
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That's why Djem So is such a good form. It's quite nice, and had it's roots in German Longsword techniques.
Eyyyy the Van Durce stance!!! Nice mate
Same. I was just doing that last night. Some flow drills from RUclips before heading into HEMA cuts and winds.
Form 2 was born because Christopher Lee actually knew how to sword fight, which is why it fits so well with real world techniques.
I want to refute you because Lightsaber styles were written about in the first DK Star Wars guide I think....but I don't own the Phantom Menace Guide anymore.
@@daviddent5662 according to my 30 second research just now, the first mention of the forms was from Star Wars insider 62 in 2002 mentioning form 2 in regards to attack of the clones
No he did not know how to sword fight an actor training to sword fight for a movie is not learning how to sword fight. Christopher Lee simply looked good because he played defenses in a lot of movie.
@@houseofaction bro does not know Christopher Lee lore smh. Lee was a trained fencer lol
@@houseofaction Christopher Lee was an expert fencer and fought in WW2 lol. Shut it unless you know what you're talking about.
I love Makashi. It’s definitely one of my favorite forms. I fell in love with it watching Dooku use it so elegantly in Episode II and, through my studies of the Form, have come to love it that much more.
As I recall, Christopher Lee did exactly this in Ep II, drawing on his own olympic training to depict Form II onscreen.
At episode 2 Lee was 80 y.o. they used stuntman...
@@kawaraetoiaNot at all. That's the reason why Dooku's lightsaber had a pistol grip from real fencing sabers. To make it easier and more common for old man to perform
@@user-jv7se6ft9t Pretty sure some of dooku's dueling shots were done by another trained swordsman, but you're exactly right. You would still need Christopher Lee to perform some of the dueling to get the shots with his face clearly in it. Plus any shots where he is in a dueling stance and seen holding his saber whilst also talking would certainly be made easier if the 80 year old actor is already familiar with those poses.
@@user-jv7se6ft9t I hate to say it but he is right they used a double. Lee himself talked about it. In an interview he said "I have done more sword fights than any other actor, but not any more." All those scenes were a double with his face superimposed.
@@user-jv7se6ft9t yes it is, he even told it in interveiw.
Rest in peace Sir Christopher Lee (Count Dooku). A Millitary man of the blade. A True Sith Master
And member of the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare, during WWII.
RIP o7
If you don’t mind explaining, when did he die? Don’t think I heard about it.
@@CoraCreates 2015
Pretty sure he would be a lightsaber master more than just a sith. He never embraced the Sith ideology in the movies. Hence why his eyes never changed in the movies.
One of my favorite what if scenarios is "if Dooku never turned to the dark side."@@brojynks
Light saber duels are probably a lot trickier in lore than we usually consider because the vast majority of users are obviously gonna be force sensitive. With the force you have everything about you enhanced, which only increases with mastery. They often get a few minutes or few seconds of foresight, which means that it's harder to throw your opponent off.
Blah blah blah
Even in fencing its hard to read anything.So this argument is genuinely bs.Fencing has millions of moves and its hard to predict them.But huge swings are so easy to read and counter.Fencing you can change angles in microseconds making it hard to know where they will attack.Star wars uses big swings which literally leaves them so open.Not to mention the failure to keep their distances at the right time.This argument is useless in my opinion
Lucas was originally going to say Light Sabers gained mass and a gyroscopic force when activated making them much more difficult for a non-force user to use. Explaining the Two Handed fighting style used.
For future lightsaber duels, I hope Disney really embraces historic swordfighting technique. Imagine how cool it would be to see someone switching between several styles in the span of a single fight
haha as if 😂 sadly right now those writers can‘t even write a coherent story - but yes, THAT would be awesome
Well it's Disney so such care is probably a pipedream.
Quality Star Wars won't return until Disney goes under.
@@TechnoMinarchist Ha... About that, heard the news yet?
@@recap1843 I have. It looks like another barebones action rpg. You can't even create your own character.
Actually, there is an example of this sorta style in Jedi Survivor, when Cal Kestis uses his blaster stance. While using his blaster in the offhand, he thrusts and swipes with the saber in his main hand.
Yeah it really reminded me of rapier. Apparently it is based on actual rapier and pistol fighting style, although blaster wasn't used as a guard in reverse grip.
These also sorta reminded me of the Crossgaurd stance
@@AlexGrom to be fair, using a blaster as a guard would be kinda useless. melee weapons in star wars are either electrified, which would conduct through the blaster (probably), or lightsabers which... you can't really guard against.
I heard a rumor that a HEMA fighter did the motion capture for Crossguard form. Supposedly, he later won his division at a big international comp.
Was gonna say this too
glad you brought up smallsword. super underrated for lightsaber inspiration given how its a style BASED around having a lighter blade (pun semi intended) and extreme finesse.
Its like a style MADE for a plasma blade.
Except that cuts are completely absent, while the lightsaber cuts pretty well.
Probably a style based on the "sciabola da terreno" (the duelling sabre, much lighter than the military sabre) would be more appropriate.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Fair enough, but I do think there would be a lot of tip work, weither thrusting or tip cuts.
I NEED a Star Wars anime with a ton of different fighting styles it would genuinely be revolutionary
It's crazy when you think about how so many lightsaber forms rely on force sensitivity, where you're basically play extradimensional chess by constantly trying to outpredict your opponents next 20 moves.
And then there's us who have no force powers and just wonder why we don't aim for a quick lunge to the leg or fingers more often😂😂😂😂
Exactly💜
I had someone who learned lightsaber choreography techniques from people who worked on the movies say that the fights from the prequels were choreographed with force-sensitive, borderline precognition in mind, which is part of why you see Jedi and Sith change directions and go on for another strike the moment their strike doesn't go through. Ordinarily, you'd want to leave even a half-second pause in between blows to convey the fighters registering that a hit didn't go through, but a force user knows their hit doesn't work almost just BEFORE it's blocked or dodged.
that lore is terrible, doesnt happen in the films ever
@@Leo.23232did you watch the infamous scene of anakin and obi wan fighting on the lava world? Very fitting example
@@bigzigtv706 ive seen it, can you explain how that scene shows or at least implies that they are doing that
Form II Makashi always seemed like the most practical and effective style of lightsaber combat to me, and Dooku’s lightsaber is my favorite as well!
Thanks for showing your fancy footwork and elegant bladework skills.
If I recall correctly, Form II was specifically designed for dueling and melee, so it is a great form.
Not sure about Disney's canon, but in the Legends, Form II was litterally designed as the duellist form. It's purpose was litterally to be the form suited to face a lightsaber wielding opponnent.
That's also why the council wasn't fond of Dooku specializing in it, they saw it as pride and aggression as the only opponents that would justify the use of this form were other jedi (as they thought the Sith to be extinct), thus making the only interest of studying this form be the will to best the other jedis in duels.
@@raphaeldevillele9093which is also funny, as Dooku was one of the few Jedi who still anticipated the siths return. Perhaps it was prideful of him to think he'd be the one to do it, but it clearly put him above his peers in the future.
Form II is precision engineered for saber combat. It suffers a bit against blasters, so being a pure specialist like Dooku is generally unviable, but it works wonders in saber duels.
The only forms that can score the advantage against Form II are Form V and probably Form VII just from sheer overwhelming force, and you have to be REALLY good to make it work.
Meanwhile, Form II hard counters Forms I, II, and IV.
Probably because it was designed by Sir Christopher Lee who was an actual swordsman.
A big part of why lightsaber fights are long and flashy is because force users have such good reflexes and can sense each others moves. So in order to win a lightsaber fight especially between two very experienced force wielders one opponent is going to need to outsmart or outlast the other which is why most of the time it seems like they're just toying with each other, because they are
For an in universe explanation as to why thrusting is rare for lightsabers, you could argue that because they often have to weave in blaster deflections it makes more sense to be in a cutting motion generally, rather than a thrusting. I’m not a huge sword person, so I don’t know how hard it would be to transition to the types of moves generally used for blaster deflection to cutting/thrusting, but it would make sense to me that more cutting type movements that keep the blade less perpendicular to your body would make it easier to go to blocking the blaster bolts. On top of that, I think the blade is even more deadly than the point on a light saber since it just cuts through everything, since there’s basically no resistance (at least not against body parts) cutting is better than thrusting because you just have more surface area of damage. A lightsaber blow to the stomach might not instantly kill them, but slashing them on half at the stomach will. And lastly, a big advantage of thrusting is it’s harder to block, but lightsaber users, broadly speaking, are force users, which means they fight while seeing a little into the future. So similar to how they can block blaster shots, thrusts wouldn’t generally be more difficult to block when compared to slashes. So I think if you really wanted to there’s some good explanations for mainly using slashing (though no idea why two handed, maybe despite the weightlessness of the actual blade hitting both blaster shots and other lightsabers creates enough force to justify it?). That said, it would be interesting to see some more thrust based styles, maybe particularly anti lightsaber wielder styles, where the trade off is they can’t really be used with lots of ambient blaster fire to dodge, but in a 1v1 duel situation they shine compared to slashing styles because thrusting allows for greater reach and you could make multiple attacks quickly. And maybe it is harder to parry when compared to blaster fire since the person attacking also is predicting the future and using that to determine how they attack
I love how he looked ever so slightly drunk with the "rapier" form😂
Also low-key protecting himself with left hand, as it would help against laser blade.
You can also use the off hand for force attacks. As well as having a longer reach in thrusting attacks.
The ironic thing is that was a chief element of Niman, incorporating force attacks into lightsaber combat. I say "ironic" because, in Legends, Makashi was the one form Niman did not take elements from. It took elements from Shii-Cho, Soresu, Ataru, and Shien/Djem So, but apparently not Makashi.
It was cool to see Ashoka using the force to basically grab her lightsaber & do a sort of half-swording technique.
It was a creative way to see the writers using “the force” in a lightsaber fight
It'd be so cool to see you make all lightsaber forms more practical like this.
I believe they mention somewhere in the lore that it takes an immense use of force to wield and control a lightsaber and the actual weight doesn't matter that much. Maybe they are representing this.
Imagining the light being weightless, I think it would be easier moving it erratically, like playing with a flashlight
Dooku entered the chat
I'd love a whole series for the rest of the forms. Either matching historic styles to the form, or rather substituting a historical style to reimagine the lightsaber form as better
I would absolutely love this as well.
In the starwars world I think it because of the weight of lightsabers while ignited. I also think training experience and force control training is also something that add to the control of a light saber while ignited. In the madalorian we see signs of this with din jarin when using the dark saber while ignited compared to when its not ignited.
Bro actually knows all forms of Lightsaber Combat
I would LOVE to see someone use Tai Chi sword for Lightsaber combat.
It emphasizes maintaining blade to blade contact and using bind work to find a thrust or cut line.
Imagine hand trapping, just done with swords - and because the bind work is done with the blade, it doesn't rely on having a big cross-guard.
I have no idea how practical it actually is, but it LOOKS really cool 😅
Oh yeah, Matt Easton had videos about how a jian is supposed to work. Generally the jian is a very light sword, lighter than the rapier (unsurprisingly given the lack of complex hilt), and if you believe that Jedi can wield lightsabers like super light plasma swords, then why not have Jedi that use lightsabers like jians?
@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight It also has the benefit of looking incredibly serene when performed - so it would be a perfect style for the older Jedi Masters.
I always thought Dooku should look more like the Rapier masters - similar levels of control but with much more aggressive intent, given that he's a sith by the time we meet him.
German longsword suits Vader and Younger Luke perfectly, while older Luke would adopt the Jian style.
It would allow for some actual variation with lightsaber combat as well. Unfortunately it requires fight choreographers who actually know this stuff 😅
@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlightrapier is actually quite heavy tbh
@@yarikyaryi Oh, I'm tracking that - I didn't mean to say that Jian and Rapier look the same, just that both weapons are characterized by tight, precise movements.
@@yarikyaryi Hence why I said the jian is lighter than the rapier. Also, I practice sidesword, which is heavier than rapier. A jian is practically featherweight to me.
Y’know, I know you’ve probably already thought this up, but a video of Jedi demonstrating different forms and battling it out with an emphasis on the practical applicable approach on this channel would be rad. You could even make it a high republic era storyline, teaching some of the younglings you guys have in your videos and showing your interpretations of the different styles. That would be rad!
This is why I LOVED jedi survivor. Each stance had different styles and they felt so bad ass and unique.
This was what Sir Lee was intending when he requested a curved hilt, and while the live action movies downplayed these styles, the Clone Wars cartoon really brought some of the styles that would be used with such a blade to life. I think immediately of the scene where Obi Wan and Anakin duel him atop some kind of facility as he makes his way to a ship and leaves. He is using sabre fencing moves, keeping a fluid defensive line between his two opponents, and cedeing ground strategically to allow the battle to push him back towards his own exit point while drawing the duo of opponents out by the appearance of advantage being relinquished to them. It is one of my favorite scenes from any of the animated features because it finally gets Lightsaber fencing as a concept, while shying away from the more kendo based movements we usually see.
I think the reason for the two handed tendency is because they were originally supposed to be really heavy. So you had to use two hands to use it
They are supposed to also have the force flowing through them and thus also be heavy in a metaphysical sense
sidesword's rotational movements, flowing guard changes, and tricky feints would be perfect as well
The fact that loghtsaber has no false edge and the entire thing IS an edge is something used extremely well in prequel and completely squandered in the sequel.
I think I recall the canonical reason for lightsabers never making the kind of tight detailed movements posited in the video is that the energy blades actually exert a lot of irregular force as they move through air, making their momentum greater than a metal sword and difficult to control, kind of like the Darksaber as depicted in The Mandalorian, only a little less so. That’s also probably why non-Force-users don’t tend to use lightsabers as successfully, since use of the Force to direct their movement makes them more practical, and otherwise they’d be way more popular, although the rarity of kyber crystals is probably also supposed to have something to do with it.
From what I understand of the lore, lightsabers don't just block each other, they actually repel each other. If that is the case, then the two handed forms may actually be necessary to off-set the repulson effect. You are fighting with a weapon that doesn't just get deflected, it gets pushed with force roughly equal to the combined force of both combatant, or the force of the combatant and the inertial force of the blaster bolt, with a somewhat random shear effect. You may need both hands to compensate.
Really? Because it seems in the films that if anything, they stick to each other.
That doesn't sound right, especially when you consider all those scenes or the lightsaber being pushed into each other
Actually they are drawn together when close and you can see that on screen.
I always think a modified form of Kali would be great for single and double lightsaber choreography, fast, flashy, practical, and no edge alignment. I feel like a mix of saber and kali stickfighting would make for badass choreography.
In Star Wars Jedi: Survivor, Cal Kestis uses a Makashi-esque style with the Blaster stance. Lightsaber in one hand and a blaster in the other.
Dooku was a very talented Form II user, the curved shape of his lightsaber hilt also gave him a big advantage. He mastered Form II to the perfection and had the perfect type of lightsaber to use it.
It’s strange in Star Wars, on one hand in real they’re light and can be easily wielded but on the other George Lucus said I believe that the light sabers were heavy with the force and wielded as such. Love the video my man.
I like how you included the "Signature look of superiority."
That is why I consider Count Dooku the best duelist
Might be cool to have a stand alone Star Wars movie with a Renaissance flavor. Lightsaber Duelists in a Man in the Iron Mask type scenario.
I really admire your foot work & control & flow of your sword aswell 👏
The best part about the lightsaber is that the whole beam is a cutting edge. Need I say more?
-Edit: I think some people have their comments bugged or something.-
Yeah no edge alignment needed
Yeah no edge alignment needed
Yeah no Edge Alignment needed
Yeah no edge alignment needed
Yeah no edge alignment needed
Luckily lightsabers have difference lengths, 32" often being the more common one. Shoto is often used in a more defensive style when someone wants to duel wield with a 32" blade.
my biggest question for lightsabers has always been about weight. You'd think all the weight would be in nothing but the hilt. But its also space wizard magic using a crystal. If its crazy light, it should be almost a pure finesse weapon. like traditional fencing or rapier.
the smallsword portion at the end there looked goofy asf 💀💀
You missed the best part - a blaster in your left hand 😜
No you want a slug tower no jedi can deflect the 9
Jedi: Survivor did all that so very well while also including a pistol blaster. Its such a lovely moveset
This is why I really like the blaster stance from Jedi Survivor. It's such a cool inversion from the usual mindless swings of other star wars games.
i just think there is one problem with presenting your hand extended all the time. rapiers and sabers had more elaborate handprotection that would prevent quick hand-snipes but a lightsaber has none.
i fee like this issue could be solved with a secondary eletrified guard feature on the saber. Similar ro those magna guard staffs or trooper stun batons.
Dooku was using fencing because the actor actually did sword fighting and the actor who played Dooku that's why his character had originally the curved lightsaber hilt to accommodate his fencing Style
When I saw the demonstrations I swear that is exactly how Count Dooku fought in the Clone Wars series. Especially the military and dueling saber one.
I love how even like a standard light saber on camera does the light smear on swing. It's just so iconic
I've always thought makashi as a mix between classical fencing (rapier and saber mostly, like you showed) with chinese jian.
I love makashi. It's much more neutral in the lore. Not so much light or dark side
In lore, lightsabers had weight, force gave the lightsaber weight. Also, it was also an act of will with physical effort to wield a lightsaber. Jedi and Sith developed lightsaber styles based around how the force was channeled and the intention of the wielder during the use of a lightsaber, serenity, anger, etc...
His face while he's doing the moves 😂😂😂😂
Treating it like a thrust dominant saber would really be the best way to fight with a lightsaber.
why
Good luck with that.
The reason, weapons like rapiers work is that they have a guard that protects your hand while you put it forward.
I love the tongue out fencing face, that’s the mark of a real fencer
Dooku was played by Christopher Lee, who was a fencer. He brought that fencing knowledge to his role.
That’s why i love using the single saber and blaster stance in Jedi Survivor. I liked the idea of switching from a 1 handed grip to 2 handed for more power
I could watch this guy's footwork for hours!
Dooku's a big one to remember here. Not just because he was mostly one-handed, but because he straight-up designed his weapon specifically to coincide with his- and Christopher Lee's- fighting style preference of rapiers.
Me and my brother as kids had a bunch of lightsabers, so we would commonly go downstairs and then fight, and I remember specifically that as we did it longer, we went from swinging on each other wildly to dueling as if we were wielding rapiers, because the physics of the lightsaber made it seem much more similar to a rapier than a longsword.
Disney needs to hire you for fight choreography honestly would make the fights 10 times better 💀💀💀
This will be absolutely fantastic.
You are just making new forms now its amazing
Would love to see more of these styles make it on screen. I love Dooku for using makashi and wish I could see more Jedi or Sith on screen using it.
"you fool, i have been trained in your jedi arts by count dooku"
This is absolutely why Makashi is my favorite form. It feels the most realistic form for any skilled Jedi, or Sith who's practiced lightsaber combat.
NOW this is content id like to see more of. like analyzation of translations of tristise and match to the corresponding form. and you can coach technique to boot with blunt steel and saber to compare! :D
I think using a lightsaber like a jian would be pretty on screen and effective irl
Form 2 is one of my favorite lightsaber combat forms
I believe the reason lightsabers are two handed is because while they aren’t incredibly heavy the light saber has a sort of pull like the recoil from shooting a gun but constantly so in order to better control the saber Jedi and Sith hold it with two hands
Can we talk about how sick David looks as a sith Lord? Mad dripp!
I like how Christopher Lee had a say in the lightsaber as his was made for thrusts.
Prequel fights were by far the best
Samurai and Odashi Murai first form is beautiful to watch. Works well with a lightsaber too
Jedi who will learn the lightsaber rapier style will bring the balance to the force and galaxy.
This is why I love the Grand Inquisitor and think he's been criminally underutilized. He uses his lightsaber like a rapier and is all about control.
I like that Cal uses a lot of different techniques in Survivor, like using the saber as a Rapier when in blaster stance.
One important thing to keep in mind is that lightsabers are essentially superheated plasma who burn and don't cut. That's why any big swings are pretty much a waste, you don't have to do edge alignment or build up momentum for a deeper cut, if the lightsaber makes contact, it's going to cut.
As a sabre fencer, I always wondered why nobody ever thought about adding a small deflector shield that protects the hand! That would also produce some nice flashes if the opponents blade hit this "energy basket"!
In legends these styles were used more frequently by jedi sentinels. Essentially jedi who were balance in using the force and lightsaber when fighting. Form 2 was the primary form for most of them to keep the weak hand free for more control of force powers. Some famous users could even defend against a lightsaber using the force while striking with the light Saber. The equivilant of catching a blade without taking damage. Those stories were written by people who were a bit more knowledgeable about sword play generally
I feel like whenever Disney gets around to making their High Republic era show/movie, that we might see some of these incorporated into saber combat. Its supposed to be the height of the Jedi Order so Jedi were more "Knightly", giving them a chance to add some much needed diversity to Lightsaber duels
God, it would be so nice to have fencer Jedi in films again. I especially love the military sabre (not saber) style.
I kinda like Anakin Skywalker fighting style. He takes different styles of light saber forms and incorporates them into his preferred light saber form, or he would find areas and other forms that don’t provide the protection from blaster fires and he would refine that form to incorporate a way to defend against plier without ruining the form
Also having one hand for the lightsaber perfectly leaves your other hand open to do small stuff with the force like maybe pulling something down onto your opponent or pushing them away to create distance.
Have you ever considered making a fan made Star Wars movie? I really like the choreography ideas you have for lightsaber duels and am curious to know how you'd weave in force powers into your fencing/HEMA skills.
I always assumed it would be best to have a curved hilt like dooku so it’s an extension of your arm, and then you can literally wildly swing the thing around weaving around things you want to cut or stab. The weapon doesn’t need an edge or point to cut, stab, or slice. It will cut you no matter what you do. Stab through you like butter. You could move it around real fast and literally cut someone into ribbons.
A sword guy that also recognizes form 2 is a thing!
this guy would make a terrifying sith
not because he looks menacing or is super strong, but because you know he can outsmart you with the blade
I hope the other upcoming Star Wars movies if possible introduces a Makashi style lightsaber stance by a Jedi because I've just only seen it used by Count Dooku in the Star Wars Movies
Wudang w a lil flare looks so good w lightsaber. My Brothers signature style.
The ting is you could switch clean between all attack styles since the blade doesn't really have a weight to it. You could swith from stabbing to slashing in on smooth move and the relatively low energy wouldn't matter since its a lightsaber that just melts through everything
When you use Blaster With Lightsaber Duo in Survivor Jedi Cal actually goes Rapier mode which is so cool
You see this in the blaster stance in Jedi Survivor. Cal has a blaster in his off hand so uses lots of stabs
Flashy, but practical... Now I'm picturing a jedi that fights like a swashbuckling pirate, and I want it!
You could do a Jar-Kai thing with the rapier and dagger by occasionally adding a shorter blade for your non-dominant hand. A slight bit like what Ahsoka Tano did!
Bro waggled his blade 💀
Something that's consistent across canons is that the Lightsaber is actually heavier than it seems. There's a few different explanations, but, basically, the reason why it's handled like a longsword is because it FEELS heavy and has way more momentum than you'd expect.
Doesn't explain the spins and flourishes, but it does explain two-handing the weapon.
So I would love to see a style that's at least somewhat reflective of the lightsabers purported qualities: the beams attract each other like magnets. The thing cuts in any which way. The blades are relatively short and essentially weightless. Can be deactivated (you can make the blade go bye bye).
Imagine a style that took these into account. Thrusting would be preferred against defence because it'll "cut" anyway while avoiding the sticking, but you'd want to cover as much area as possible for defense. Disengaging, reengaging, and Sprouse attacks would be quite effective from the "closed" (off poison). The total lack of a guard would make still attacks the most obvious target rather than the body.
i like to believe that this is a real lightsaber and this guy just has a lightsaber in his collection