Are these composers HARDER or EASIER to play than they sound?
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Tier list time! We're going to be going through famous, major classical piano composers and talking about whether their music is easier than we expect after seeing it, or harder. Some composers tend to write music that fits the hands really well yet still sound flashy, while others write music that is just challenging to get.
/ ryanabshier
#piano #classicalmusic #howtoplaypiano #classicalpiano # 
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Although I agree with a lot that was said, I disagree with Chopin's rating, in fact, I would rate him on the "Way harder than it sounds". I think it strongly fits in this category coming from the perspective of musicians, not a lot of things sound very technically demanding, but boy they are. Chopin's writing has a lot of details and it needs many levels of texture to sound good, and I personally find these details technically very very hard to execute properly.
I think it's easy to find subtlety in any composer. Getting Chopin to 80-90% of performance readiness is not way harder than one would expect on listening to him.
While I agree that Chopin doesn't belong in the same category as Liszt, I also strongly disagree that his music is "way harder than it sounds" compared to the music of other composers on the list. I'd put him in either "easier than it sounds" or "middle" because I think his music is about as pianistic as early period Beethoven. Your argument about the details and the levels of texture applies to all of the composers ranked above him, and I find the bulk of his virtuosic writing to be much more comfortable/pianistic in general than bach, schumann, brahms, and late Beethoven. I disagree with the example used in the video because the ballades are certainly not examples of Chopin's writing that are easier than they sound, but I would say pieces like his 25/11 are definitely much easier than they sound. Even then I would certainly say that the 4th ballade coda is not quite as difficult as the beethoven op 101 fugato despite sounding like it's one of the hardest passages of music ever composed.
@@chwu04-ne2df I agree on the case of 25/11 for instance, and maybe the etudes in general that they are much easier than they sound (with few exceptions). But I tend to think that the mid-late Chopin stuff which most of us associate the most with his unique style are way harder than they sound. The late nocturnes for instance, there is hardly much raw technical / mechanical challenge there to play the notes, but to take it to a performance or competition ready level, they are devilish. Also, having attended a few masterclasses - including with a past international Chopin competition winner and current judge - I've found that generally Chopin pieces generate much more "comment" on sound and getting textures right. But much that I said is subjective; I personally have always struggled with getting Chopin pieces the way I want and tend to perform much better in competitions with Liszt or Beethoven for example.
@@pedroganme2503 While I see your point about mid-late Chopin pieces, I'm pretty sure when we talk about pieces being "easier than they sound" we're talking almost entirely about technical difficulty. In that case I would say the bulk of Chopin's virtuosic passages are not quite as technically difficult as they sound. If we're including musical difficulty too, or specifically getting pieces to the level at which they would impress judges at major international competitions, then probably the majority of these composers could go in the "way harder than it sounds" category.
I agree that these mature Chopin works demand so much more than simply technique to play really well and are also scrutinized heavily, but I don't think this is any less true for any late period Beethoven sonata, brahms op 116-119, any prelude and fugue from the bach WTC, schubert sonatas d. 958-960, many debussy preludes, most of schumann's well-known works, or the liszt B minor sonata.
@@chwu04-ne2df Well said!
OK...My personal experience with Chopin: You never can take him for granted concerning what he's going to put in the score. He keeps me on my toes. Just because you go up the keyboard with certain notes does not mean you'll descend with the same notes. And, just because the last broken chord or a two (or more) has certain notes does not mean the next chord will. And, really, that's what I like about him.
I don't anything Chopin's ever wrote was for the sake of 'showing off' in a sense. If it's something obviously difficult like the Etudes, what he writes is the simplest it can get. You can't really recreate Op.10 No.1 with a different figuration of arpeggios or a different keyboard technique alltogether. As for Chopin's less obvious works like the later Ballades, Sonatas, etc. the difficulty comes from not only the technical demands but the ability for the player to evoke the emotional/musical aspects of the piece (which I find for Chopin, to be incredibly intricate and difficult)
it's criminal how underrated you are
excited to watch !
Hmm... I recommend you to do this again, but not just mere composers, rather accompanying "specific works", such as... Chopin's "Allegro de Concert", which is infamous for being the hardest piano solo piece by him, or Debussy's Études or Préludes which are PRETTY hard.
I like Allegro de Concert. It sounds awesome but so hard.
@@Xantares2003 Absolutely! Apparently, it was supposed to be a first movement of Chopin's third concerto, but nine years later the composer decided to publish this as a piano solo work. Such history of Op. 46 made its mechanics and musicality much more formidable.
Yes! This list only mentions these composers' most popular works which are so far from representative of their output.
@@loganm2924he should have at least mentioned that
The Allegro de Concert has one extremely tough passage with chromatic runs in thirds in the right hand, played at break-neck pace and requiring very intricate finger placement and hand repositioning. I've learned the piece but that one passage was what kept me from being able to nail it 100% just from a technical perspective. There'd always be audible wrong notes in there despite not leading to an actual derailment or tempo deviation in the end.
Fun discussion! Great content as usual. Thank you!
Thanks for the interesting content 👍
Great list! Keep it up you are really talented!
@@FizSwik915 thanks a bunch!
Thanks!
@@moy9022 Got Bach at the top of the tierlist alone and everything! Thanks a bunch!
Underrated content 10/10
I feel like this ignores so much repertoire from a lot of these composers and just falls into stereotypes based on their most popular pieces...
Chopin's earlier works, Brahms' piano concerti, Schubert's sonatas and the Wanderer Fantasy, even Liszt's pieces which sound hard... are sometimes ***much*** harder than they look, especially the earlier works and operatic/symphonic transcriptions, and his later works which often sound very manageable are very texturally complex and difficult to play well.
Thanks Ryan , well explained about these composers, Bach is my most favorite composer.
@@moy9022 Thanks for checking it out. Speaking of Bach, I still really want to do an update video on the Bach fugue in G I did a video on, just trying to find the time.
@@ryanabshier please keep me updated.
hey ryan could you one day rank the chopin etudes op 25 set preferably if you had to do only one based on musicality
Excellent tier list, I mostly agree with you. I remember when Vinheteiro made a "10 levels of piano" and all the non-pianists thought the jump from Level 8 (Bach's second fugue from Well-Tempered Claviar) to Level 9 (Chopin's Revolutionary Etude) was a massive jump or in some cases that Clementi's Sonatina in C Major (the Level 3 piece) sounded more challenging. Me and the other pianists laughed when seeing those comments. We knew they were tricked by the first impressions of the pieces and that Clementi's Sonatina in C is a piece of cake, the Bach fugue is a real beast, and personally I think the Bach fugue listed as Level 8 (second fugue from Well-Tempered Claviar) is harder than the Revolutionary Etude. I personally see Beethoven as leaning towards "harder than it sounds" but I can see why you chose "middle", my reason for putting Beethoven on the borderline between the two categories is some pieces, such as the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata have a giant gap between playing the piece and performing the piece properly.
You should make more videos like this
Chopin isn't typically easier than the music sounds. Liszt maybe? His music fits the hand much better than Chopin's.
I wish you had more followers dude
@@mysticcc210 me too 🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭 I do appreciate all the shares and likes, it really does help! I think things just take a bit to grow. On the bright side the followers this month have doubled.
Hope to be more like a full time thing in the future, that would be completely awesome
WOW how wrong you are with Chopin...
I think he's pretty accurate on it for the most part. Obviously some Chopin pieces are awkward but most of fits the hands nicely. Like if u play the nocturnes, waltzes, and etudes MOST aren't that hard, with exceptions of course. If u listen to the revolutionary etude or ballad no 1 coda or something it looks super hard but once u practice it, it's not that bad.
@@giovannib27 I agree, but still he (Chopin) is not The Easyest. Definetly not easyest. Nor is Liszt! What these two, Chopin&Liszt show, is that they are both pianists by fundamental definition. This why their writing is more comfortable for hands on a keyboard, but by no means they are easy to play. Playd Chopin 30+ years.
@@janneliimatainen6186 oh ya ofc, they not easy at all! A beginner couldn't play Chopin or liszt but to someone more advanced it's not as hard because its not that bad on the fingers compared to other composers
@@janneliimatainen6186 hey there, not sure if you watched the whole thing, but this video is harder or easier than it looks/sounds. So I'm not saying Chopin and Liszt are easier to play than the other composers, just easier than it sounds.
So like, maybe Bach sounds like a 5 out of 10 difficultly, but it's really an 8-9
Liszt sounds like a 17 out of 10, but maybe it's really 9-10. So Liszt is harder, but it's the expectation-reality I'm ranking here.
Number here are just pulled out of thin air, but hope that clears it up. Have an awesome day!
Ballade 4.
Ravel?
Schubert for me is at the very top of the list. His sonatas especially are monstrously difficult. One thing he frequently does that makes them so hard is dotted rhythms with big chords/octaves, you're expected to voice a melody in a 3-4 note chord that's constantly shifting positions and in dotted rhythm. So much harder than it sounds!
Thanks for fleshing out Schubert and for your thoughts. I really struggled with him (as was probably obvious from the video). I have spent more time with his impromptus so and the 3 I know better are all a little easier than you expect. Then I've played songs for singers and I always have to...practice them 🤣🤣🤣 So I went for the middle.
Have a wonderful weekend.
0:29 IDIOMATIC, IDIOMATIC, WOAH-HO-OH-HO-OH WOAH-HO-OH-HO-OH, IDIOMATIC IDIOMATIC.
(just a little radioactive pun over there)
Dvořák? His piano concerto i.e. is infamous for being very taxing to play, but not very flashy.
Let me rephrase the last section. If time spent learning a piece = MONEY and you want to impress listeners (be honest, it always has some VALUE), than guys at the bottom of the list created music that is better value for money.
Mozart players are also to blame for making him sound easier than he is. Bunch of crazy people determined to make all those notes seem casual. Heck with that, I'm going back to Baroque.
I enjoy your classical piano videos…they are entertaining. I don’t agree, however, on these difficulty rankings. All of these composers wrote difficult pieces which are even more difficult to perform at a high level…particularly Chopin and Liszt. But if you are able to navigate through their etudes and conclude they only sound difficult but are easy to pull off, then that’s remarkable.
I disagree with Liszt. There are so many of his pieces, for example most of the Lieder transcriptions, that sound easy but are almost unplayable. He should be in the middle category
Thank you for the recognition Bach is insanely difficult to play. For me, the thing with Bach is that it is, - don’t know how to explain- mathematical and there is no room for mistakes. You can not “pedal away” a glitch. One mistakes and you (or at least I) immediately lose my flow… love Bach though ❤
Runaway by Kanye is really easy to play, but it sounds hard, just letting you know
what😂
Hello from Russia!
Thank you for the video, I can’t agree with your rating.
I resumed playing the piano after a 20-year break, and I can say that some pieces are easier, apparently depending on what kind of music you listened to most.
For example, the most difficult works for me now are:
1) Rachmaninov elegy, vocalise,
2) Bach - clavier fugue.
3) listz conselation 3 (because I don’t understand how to play triplets and eighth notes)
4) Debussy Moonlight (a lot of sharps and flats, I have trouble focusing)
5) Sakamoto (although the compositions are as primitive as possible)
At the same time, most of Bach’s works from Goldberg, French and English suites are easy for me (the tutor wonders how I can play THIS without knowing how to play much else), Chopin (everything is logical and understandable), Tchaikovsky (although my fingers are HELL), Beethoven.
By the way, I highly recommend listening to and trying to play the works of desyatnikov nokturn, very deep and sad music, a rather complex piece and, astor piazzola oblivion in the vera dragal version.
Well, some of Liszt's pieces, which soumds like Hardest pieces, are trully one of the hardest pieces ever, like his 12 grandes etudes S. 137 (i am not talking about Transcendental etudes), or His trancriptions of Beethoven's symphonies. But great conctent anyway, I would like to know your opinion on Medtner in this list, because he is very questionable in this thing!
For beethoven i think he is middle but hammerklavier to me sound way easier than for exemple hungarian rhapsody 2 but hammerklavier is supposed to be one of the hardest piano piece ever
he explained but seems you didnt watched all the part
One question is how difficult is it to learn and eventually perform a piece compared to how it sounds.
Another question is how difficult is it to sight read a piece compared to how it sounds.
If you go with the later, the list changes, most notably making Mozart the easiest.
Good point. My original title/name idea was just "Which composer is most idiomatic", so really focusing on the fit/feel of their music in the hands. But I thought Idiomatic being in the title might not get too many views 🤣🤣🤣
@@ryanabshier most likely true!!
@@hitm43 I've found that idiomatic is a word used around me all the time, but that's not true of everyone. Lots of eyebrow raises
I can't believe that Schumann was just in the middle, I would actually consider putting it on par with Bach
Schumann's major works are some of the hardest in the repertoire but they sound like they are. While he wasn't a great orchestrator, he was very good at getting rich and orchestral type sounds out of the piano.
@@classicallpvault8251 They do sound difficult, but I think part of what makes Schumann hard is due to how awkwardly difficult the techniques are. If you have never played the piece or at least thoroughly looked into the score, just listening to it doesn't give you a complete grasp on what kind of technical assets are needed to play many of Schumann's pieces.
Of course the same can be true for many other composers' pieces, but I felt it is much stronger with Schumann's.
Prokofiev wrote quite a few piano works, didn't he? (Yeah, I know, at some point you have to STOP including composers.).
I think this was a pretty good but Chopiny music is quite difficult to play because it has jumping rhythms in the base that all have to be smooth so even it's more simpler pieces it still hard to play Well also people change the rhythm way too much with Chopin's music which kills the rhythmic charm of the music but playing solo piano is very very difficult to play well no matter what your piece you're playing oh I actually play piano that's why I would know this LOL
I miss Handel there...
@@ramirezvillaescusa i went back and forth about whether to include him. Where to cut off the composers is always a tough decision (Prokofiev, Ravel, Handel, Scarlatti). Handel didn't write tons of piano music, but what he did write I'd probably say is Slightly harder than it sounds (being baroque) but he doesn't have an overwhelming amount of fugues like Bach. What are your thoughts on Handel?
It’s better to ranking specific composers. But chopin at the bottom????? He’s NOT known to be easier than it sounds. I grew up in a musical family and I’ve heard the opposite. Honestly Chopin is more towards “harder than it sounds” but again, that depends on the pieces. And it’s NOT made to fit your hand easier, that’s Liszt if it’s any other composer. Have you listened to etude op.25 n6? It’s EXTREMELY hard but sounds much easier.
I think it's hard to play anything well.
Dude, you saying 1st Ballade is easier than it sounds, clearly shows you've never gone past the 1st page.
Well, he is right, That mainstream piece, lit Chopin has beasts that surely you haven't ever heard of. Pretty sure you don't play any of Chopy's concerts to get here and say that. 😂
goofiest opinion for sure
@ryanabshier I think it would have helped to play more piano and not just talk about the difficult of the composers' music. Some you skipped playing anything, and some you spent little time playing. Playing longer excerpts would have been nicer. That's my suggestion.
Imo chopin is the opposite of idiomatic 😂
Can you play furrylove?🥵🔥
Wtf
But yes
@@ibrahimismail5625 yeaaah
LOL