It’s an absolute crime that he wasn’t romancable. Not only is he a 10/10 on the smoochable scale, but it would’ve assisted his character a LOT. The more problematic elements of his character would’ve been able to so smoothly blend into the game’s message of confronting the problematic elements of yourself and learning from them. And sadly, despite that being the MAIN THEME OF THE GAME, they just never do that.
Yosuke and Kanji had the potential to give really good gay messages, Kanji's being that just because you enjoy traditionally feminine things doesn't make you gay, and Yosuke's being that you can be traditionally masculine and still be gay, and both would showcase how toxic masculinity/normalized heterosexuality and homophobia makes people think that both of those statements aren't true But with Yosuke's romance being cut, it ruined half of that message and, imo, it ruined Kanji's thing too. With Yosuke still constantly bringing up the gay thing with Kanji again and them both being disgusted by it, the message turns from "being feminine doesn't make you gay, and also there's nothing wrong being gay" to "being feminine doesn't make you gay because being gay is bad and you wanna avoid that at all costs" That's just the feeling I got when I played the game, which made the scenes together with them all the more uncomfortable. Idk if anyone else saw that, it's just how I viewed that plotline
I agree. I love Persona 4, and Yosuke is my second favourite character, (Nanako is my favourite because why wouldn't she be?) but it really rubs me the wrong way that a lot of the dialogue within the game gives off a 'eww gay people' vibe.
I also feel Yosuke’s comments make Kanji deny it even more and stay even more in the figurative closet. I firmly believe Kanji is definitely bisexual. He fell for Naoto when he believed Naoto was a guy, and still loved Naoto after finding out the truth. Kanji has a lot of love to give but he is very much misunderstood. I really like his social link where you encourage him to embrace his real likes and it shows another kid that was going through something similar to kanji but unlike kanji he has someone that’s telling him that liking non stereotypical masculine stuff is ok too. Yosuke was very much coded for internalized homophobia and I feel like at this day and age even if his comments aged poorly. Anyone can see it. The first time I played the game, I just said “man, he’s so gay” every time he mentions girls and swimsuits and like “oh but girls” im like “we get it Yosuke, you try to avoid your crush on protag by bringing up Risette in swimsuit”
Yeahhh, it very much reads as the writers actively intending that to be the outcome, only for it to be cut by executive veto late in production, especially with Yosuke initially having a romance route that got voiced in ENGLISH before it was scrapped.
It wouldve turned from homophobia too internalised homophobia brought out which wouldve made yosuke more likeable it really sucked cause he was my favourite character till his interactions with kanji
Something that lives rent-free in my mind regarding Yosuke is that one scene in the anime where he looks at Yu, starts blushing, and yells "Ahhhhh h-h-h-hell no!" . . . "Very wrong! I dunno what happened, but I think I just went somewhere that I can never come back from."
I am a bisexual woman and while I have no problem romancing the women in the Persona games, the one thing that actually made me upset was that Yosuke (and other male characters in previous games and those to come) were not romancable. I understand that to make every character MC-sexual is unrealistic but by the gods the romantic chemistry between Narukami and Yosuke is so damn palpable sometimes and it’s a shame that his romance option was removed from the vanilla games. Thank god for mods.
Also can I just mention the wedding thing in PQ? I know PQ isn't the best for representing a character's personality, but Yosuke was literally flickering between "Yes let's get married" and "Wait no!" when he and Yu got into a weird situation together. And to add on to it Kanji and Teddie both didn't mind marrying Yu lol.
Honestly I can't agree more. I hate when people just brush him off as a homophobic asshole, yes that was incredibly uncalled for but people seem to forget that yosuke is teen and they always say stupid shit that they regret and eventually learn from their mistakes. The game was also first released in 2008, and saying stuff like this back then unfortunately was kind of OK. As someone who struggled with internalised homophobia, which where some of the lowest points in my life, I find yosuke incredibly relatable if I am thinking of him as lgbt. Would have been a great opportunity to explore the impact that hetero normativity has on young gay people and I guess just see him grow as a person and eventually accept who he is, which would also just personally hit home for me. Again, if we were thinking of him as gay/bi, that tent scene makes a lot more sense. Mostly likely stems from his insecurities(honestly so many people forget how genuinely insecure this man can get) and internalised homophobia. So in conclusion, he's very, very deep in the closet.
The anime also hints toward this a bit more, with Yu being incredibly nonchalant about his sexuality, this leaves Yosuke in way more of these kinds of situations he has to cope with
I understand that it might be realistic for him to act this way but that doesnt mean that im gonna like him. All in all i like him because his realtionship with yu is great and i first met him through the anime because there hes better also because yu has a personality but the game made me like him less. Would have been better if hes gay/bi.
I always had a sort of headcanon about Yosuke having a crush on MC that he wasn't still aware of and then starting to accept himself more by being around Teddy and his more relaxed way of living, and that all his fears around Kanji were just his own projecting. Of course this was just myself trying to avoid at all costs the sad fact that otherwise his character emanates pure incel energy.
I agree with the first part, about him projecting onto Kanji but slowly starting to accept himself. But incel energy? An incel is someone who hates women as a group because they're unable to find love/sex and think they're owed relationships. Even at Yosuke's worst moments, I wouldn't go near as far as saying he doesn't see women as people or thinks the girls' affections are owed to him.
I really like your point that if the protagonist is supposed to be a blank slate, he should have male and female romance options. Because if he's strictly heterosexual, he's not really a blank slate. Personally, I think the protagonist should have been able to romance Yosuke. I felt that Yosuke was trying to overcompensate for his sexuality by being "overly masculine". He makes sexual comments about female characters, but it always felt like he was trying too hard to seem like a "ladies man". He makes homophobic comments at Kanji, but it always felt like Yosuke was trying to assert how "straight" he is by comparison. Yosuke already struggled with not fitting in when he moved to Inaba, so I'm sure he was afraid of standing out even more. This is why he reacts so strongly if the protagonist gives responses that he perceives as "not masculine". Because Yosuke isn't comfortable with his own sexuality, anyone who is makes him uncomfortable, reminding him of what he's hiding from. In summary, Yosuke was clearly queer coded, but Atlus did him dirty.
The game coming out in 2008 isn’t really an excuse when Atlus put out really good lgbt representation in the form of Anna and Jun in Persona 2. Seriously, if you haven’t checked out Persona 2, please do. It’s the best form of lgbt rep I have seen in a game period. It actually offers a gay romance route with Jun, and whether or not you follow that path he’s still very much gay and in love with Tatsuya, the player. Tatsuya is actually canonically bisexual, as there are instances of “you look around the room, and see many beautiful women, and many handsome men.” Jun isn’t a token gay character either, he has struggles and a character arc beyond his sexuality, but which tie very much to his romantic feelings to the player. Anna is the same way - wonderful lesbian representation. And even in the background, there are plenty of lgbt npcs. I started playing Eternal Punishment recently and almost immediately ran into two young ladies who were talking to each other about whether their zodiac signs were compatible with each other. The reason this duology got such amazing rep while the modern games didn’t, though, is because the entire writing staff changed. I still love modern Persona, and I don’t require them to have this sort of rep, but it would have really been nice to see such a realistic portrayal of internalized homophobia in the form of Yosuke. Because, well, we *never* see that explored in fiction of any kind, despite it being such a relatable experience for so many. I think this is because people find it hard to like characters who are openly homophobic, so to explore a character’s struggles in that way might not appeal to audiences who either want a straight character or positive gay rep.
@@naxzed_it Yeah, no. Fuji Shia don’t have a lot of power and they’ve made it kinda clear that a female audience isn’t a priority at all for them. Plus fujoshis would write doujinishis regardless, and if it was just fanbait the devs wouldn’t have stated Jun was their cannon choice.
It’s so weird in that it’s one of the only franchise to repeatedly go backwards in that start. Persona 2 was pretty good in regards to Jun, p3 had that infamous scene but p3p let you date 2 girls as feMC. P4 with them pulling their punches on the gay portrayal had the unfortunate side effect of gay and homosexuality being the boogie man for Kanji to repeatedly have to prove he’s not throughout the game. P5 … I really like Lala, but it seemed a bit hypocritical about a game purporting to be abour unfairly maligning misfits unfairly portraying gay men as rapists
Damn I completely agree, your video was great btw I loved it. Yes I really do hate that alot of the fandom hates Yosuke just cause of his homophobic lines,, but honestly he's more than that and he CAN be more if Atlus include that damn romance route.. Eh I'll just wait for the modded ver lmao
I honestly think they scrapped his romance route at the last possible moment, and kept almost everything of his original development but without the payout. There are not only the unused lines (both in english and japanese) but there are also jealousy lines ppl found and the other members of the cast talking about your romantic relationship. Also, the hug thing in his SL which was the indication of a romance route with every other woman, and it was always curious to me how in the penultimate SL ranking, you can't almost do anything when every other SL those last ones were important for your development with your SL. To me, they scrapped it when the game was almost finished and they didn't tied in the loose ends, that's why Yosuke's character and his whole purpose went down the drain. His romance route, or at least the knowledge he's not straight, it's essential to his character as a whole and you can understand the themes of his development knowing that. Without that, he just seems like a random homophobe just because when his character could really well be about him being not-straight in a rural town in Japan.
I relate to Yosuke a lot. With all the issues each character deals with regarding their identities, he and Naoto are the ones I relate to most. But we're talking about Yosuke here so let's ignore best girl for a second. I really love his character and can't help but agree on the fact of possible internalized homophobia. I've maxed out his S.link at least 3 times, and I've always lived his character. Despite seeming like a carefree guy on the outside I can't help but think that he's also the type of character to internalize his thoughts and feelings. Even though in persona 4 the way you awaken the persona is accepting parts of yourself and handling inner-conflicts, when you max the S.link they re-awaken as we all know. Like they've accepted yet another part of themselves. This shows that there are the parts of themselves they have yet to accept. I personally took forever to come to terms with my identity in the LGBTQIA+ community. It makes sense other people in an even less accepting time would take just as long or longer to accept. I feel like the yosuke romance route would've tied everything up perfectly. Accepting a part of yourself that's definitely one of the hardest to first accept, and awakening to a third persona. Coming to terms with parts of yourself you tried so hard to bury away and deny their existence, and bringing them out to light.
Just because his romance was cut, doesn't mean his bisexuality was cut. His social link being about losing someone he loved, then ending with a romance would've been awkward, especially for the Magician arcana which is specifically about focus.
yeah, 100% agree with you there. like yea it’d be cool to have a yosuke route on paper, but imo they’d have to alter his link so it’s not so jank with the themes. I don’t want the protag to seem like a rebound for him and I don’t want yosuke’s character development to go down the drain either 😭 like if atlus did make his route, ig it’d kinda fix his homophobia a bit? but at the expense of his writing… hmm tbh the best thing yosuke fans can do rn is take the subtext and headcanon lol
@@pomarril2718 I think the homophobia is more Yosuke acting out his insecurities about his own sexuality. It's not great that he does it, but it makes sense and is a realistic quality for someone in his situation.
@@SantaFeSuperChief1 oh yeah, 100%! I meant “fixing his homophobia” as portraying it more like internalized homophobia so it’s easier to empathize with him 👍 I didn’t phrase it correctly, my b
@@pomarril2718 at least arena somewhat incorporates it in more with finding out labrys isn't human, there is evidence Yosuke may have originally not been as important of a character in the story then he was in the final as there is a unused credit sequence but it has a completely different order as it startes with Yukiko-> Chie-> Yosuke compared to the final where it's the other way around could meant that saki may not have been a thing at the time
Well I feel like they probably changed his social link a bit after they cut out the romance, I don't think they would jump from the grieving right to romance if they had actually gone through it, probably would have been a little different to what we have now
@@ShaesKyu he's such a sweet dork and there is no way he is "not" gay or bisexual. Sorry I'm sending this to you to maybe cheer you up. I really love yosuke cause he is not a uke or seme. He's Yosuke.
Probably because he's one of the best examples of gay teens ever put in a game, much less a JRPG. He's literally the king of internalised homophobia, and they forgot to scrub all the actual evidence when they locked the one single gate to not romance him.
it is really a shame, yosuke was a character i could relate to quite a bit so it was never fun hearing his comments on kanji. especially since when you go through his social link you actually see how great he really is. i have known about the scrapped romance route for a while, and i can't help but imagine just how much would have changed both about audience perspective, and the overall game itself. he's still my favorite character despite all the problematic things he said, while it's not okay for him to say this stuff i can acknowledge that the game is from 2008, and golden wasn't too far behind either.
I really wanna know what happened with the gay portrayal in this game. Yosuke was originally romanceable and Kanji was clearly meant to be canonically gay at one point (there’s some quotes from one of the team members relating to that) but they really pulled their punch there. I wanna know what happened
Yosuke reads so much like a closeted gay man it's not even funny, so the romance option would have been a very natural fit. I don't think it cheapens the game to not have it, though. It would have fit his character, but you can still interpret him that way without it. I mean hell, he was clearly written with that intention in mind.
Wait, so it never had a romance route, but they thought about adding one in the pc version but didn't do it? I also feel they should give options, I don't think the original work should be censored because of social norms in the future, but imporved upon in later games, we didn't see the same thing in persona 5, there still a joke about it like saying you love Ryuji and he thinks if you do that he can't show his face at school if you do that, so labelling him something hes not which feels a lot more harmless than ''oh since you're bi/gay, are we safe from getting raped by you?'' you could ask the same, ''is chie and yukiko safe with you yosuke?'' its a rude question, but teens in 2008? Not too surprising, but they don't know better, its understandable and the player can just think ''what an asshole'' and move on and watch yosuke grow. Which is why we shouldn't remove everything that seems problematic to us. They did change the scene in persona 5 royal where it seems Ryuji is sweeped away by two gay harassers and changed it to gay guys that want to dress him up or something, I'm not mad about the removal especially since its means less Ryuji abuse but its a shame when original stuff needs to be altered. However, if said things are problematic in a previous game, evolve in the next game. Have more choices, gay and lesbian, male and female protagonist, its more work but I'd love it. Also, this is kinda nitpicking but back in 2008, I was kanji's age, now I'm way older so the romances feel kinda weird, so it would be cool if persona 6 happened in a collage or something. However, I'm not a business man and the main audience is prolly high school teen boys, so spending a lot of money to make gay and lesbian choices, male and female might feel overkill to them but idk, maybe more people will start playing the series?
No this cut audio has existed since before the PC version. A possible yosuke romance isn’t a new thing, as this cut audio existed in previous versions of the game
The main reason for the, not explicitly hate but, dislike for homosexuality is due to it being made in Japan, and Japanese people are more careful about what they want to add into games or what to spread to the world (which is why Japan has such strict street, gun and drug laws. Japan likes to insure their status to other countries is of high standard, thus they look at homosexuality as a bad thing.) I think by adding a gay character (Kanji) they did enough to support homosexuality. A romance option of the same gender would be cool but at that point that would just be asking for twitter point if ya catch my drift.
So back when p3 reload was announced I started thinking, what would persona 4 look like if it was completely remade? Here is where my opinions lie, palace esc dungeons would work really well here, unlike how Tartarus from p3 which would be kinda sluggish, reprised voice cast, more in-touch dialogue, and finally, a yosuke romance route. I genuinely want some feedback on this because I want to know your opinions! (Also video is very good)
Most of this has nothing to do with the video, but I think they could add in Baton Passes, Persona negotiations, more camera control, letting you do stuff in your room after a day in a dungeon, more times and places to read, Nuclear and Psych elements, non-insta-kill Bless/Light and Curse/Darkness skills, some new areas to Inaba, maybe something like a Big Bang Burger restaurant to reference P5, redesign the battle menu to use more buttons, make Okina a bit bigger, give the player the ability to actually explore on the trip to Tatsumi Port Island and maybe unlock some secrets that tie into P3, connect the North and South shopping district, and everything that you suggested.
As a Queer person myself, I just don’t understand how you can experience Kanji’s sauna, especially w how the rest of the town deems him, and then NOT feel uneasy for a while. Yosuke wasn’t homophobic, Kanji just made him uncomfortable 😭
I kinda wish Yosuke was gay because of the way it would re-contextualize his character...but I'm glad he's not romanceable. I feel like it would have been a huge distraction from their close friendship, which really should be the focus IMO.
I think persona should keep going the P3P kinda system. Male and Female routes. I think they give a reason to play both routes. If you could romance everyone in both routes, I feel the Male and Female routes have lost it’s potential and doesn’t really need to exist otherwise. And if Atlus doesn’t add Male and Female routes back in Persona 6, then making them bisexual is probably out of Atlus’s mind.
that's cool and all, but never forget FeMC not being playable (understandable), and Sae not being romancable (unacceptable because of how there was code for it).
![the history of Lgbtq+ characters in Persona [video essay]](/img/1.gif)
It’s an absolute crime that he wasn’t romancable. Not only is he a 10/10 on the smoochable scale, but it would’ve assisted his character a LOT. The more problematic elements of his character would’ve been able to so smoothly blend into the game’s message of confronting the problematic elements of yourself and learning from them. And sadly, despite that being the MAIN THEME OF THE GAME, they just never do that.
Gay
If we ever get a remake of 4 hopefully they decide to go along with it
Yosuke and Kanji had the potential to give really good gay messages, Kanji's being that just because you enjoy traditionally feminine things doesn't make you gay, and Yosuke's being that you can be traditionally masculine and still be gay, and both would showcase how toxic masculinity/normalized heterosexuality and homophobia makes people think that both of those statements aren't true
But with Yosuke's romance being cut, it ruined half of that message and, imo, it ruined Kanji's thing too. With Yosuke still constantly bringing up the gay thing with Kanji again and them both being disgusted by it, the message turns from "being feminine doesn't make you gay, and also there's nothing wrong being gay" to "being feminine doesn't make you gay because being gay is bad and you wanna avoid that at all costs"
That's just the feeling I got when I played the game, which made the scenes together with them all the more uncomfortable. Idk if anyone else saw that, it's just how I viewed that plotline
I agree. I love Persona 4, and Yosuke is my second favourite character, (Nanako is my favourite because why wouldn't she be?) but it really rubs me the wrong way that a lot of the dialogue within the game gives off a 'eww gay people' vibe.
lol very well said
this!!
I also feel Yosuke’s comments make Kanji deny it even more and stay even more in the figurative closet. I firmly believe Kanji is definitely bisexual. He fell for Naoto when he believed Naoto was a guy, and still loved Naoto after finding out the truth. Kanji has a lot of love to give but he is very much misunderstood. I really like his social link where you encourage him to embrace his real likes and it shows another kid that was going through something similar to kanji but unlike kanji he has someone that’s telling him that liking non stereotypical masculine stuff is ok too.
Yosuke was very much coded for internalized homophobia and I feel like at this day and age even if his comments aged poorly. Anyone can see it. The first time I played the game, I just said “man, he’s so gay” every time he mentions girls and swimsuits and like “oh but girls” im like “we get it Yosuke, you try to avoid your crush on protag by bringing up Risette in swimsuit”
Yeahhh, it very much reads as the writers actively intending that to be the outcome, only for it to be cut by executive veto late in production, especially with Yosuke initially having a romance route that got voiced in ENGLISH before it was scrapped.
Yosuke as a romance option would make his random homophobia towards Kanji somewhat redeemed
It wouldve turned from homophobia too internalised homophobia brought out which wouldve made yosuke more likeable it really sucked cause he was my favourite character till his interactions with kanji
He was my favorite character after his interactions with kanji
Something that lives rent-free in my mind regarding Yosuke is that one scene in the anime where he looks at Yu, starts blushing, and yells "Ahhhhh h-h-h-hell no!"
. . .
"Very wrong! I dunno what happened, but I think I just went somewhere that I can never come back from."
I am a bisexual woman and while I have no problem romancing the women in the Persona games, the one thing that actually made me upset was that Yosuke (and other male characters in previous games and those to come) were not romancable. I understand that to make every character MC-sexual is unrealistic but by the gods the romantic chemistry between Narukami and Yosuke is so damn palpable sometimes and it’s a shame that his romance option was removed from the vanilla games. Thank god for mods.
Wait, what mods?
@@kira_van there’s a PC mod where you can romance Yosuke
Also can I just mention the wedding thing in PQ? I know PQ isn't the best for representing a character's personality, but Yosuke was literally flickering between "Yes let's get married" and "Wait no!" when he and Yu got into a weird situation together. And to add on to it Kanji and Teddie both didn't mind marrying Yu lol.
Agree
Honestly I can't agree more. I hate when people just brush him off as a homophobic asshole, yes that was incredibly uncalled for but people seem to forget that yosuke is teen and they always say stupid shit that they regret and eventually learn from their mistakes. The game was also first released in 2008, and saying stuff like this back then unfortunately was kind of OK.
As someone who struggled with internalised homophobia, which where some of the lowest points in my life, I find yosuke incredibly relatable if I am thinking of him as lgbt. Would have been a great opportunity to explore the impact that hetero normativity has on young gay people and I guess just see him grow as a person and eventually accept who he is, which would also just personally hit home for me. Again, if we were thinking of him as gay/bi, that tent scene makes a lot more sense. Mostly likely stems from his insecurities(honestly so many people forget how genuinely insecure this man can get) and internalised homophobia.
So in conclusion, he's very, very deep in the closet.
Wow, thanks for the comment. I’m really glad I was able to exlplain my points in a way you related to
@@skyboy7244 I've always really liked him, so seeing a video addressing this stuff was a really big relief
SnowBall 206 yeah. I couldn’t find a vid like this so I made it
The anime also hints toward this a bit more, with Yu being incredibly nonchalant about his sexuality, this leaves Yosuke in way more of these kinds of situations he has to cope with
I understand that it might be realistic for him to act this way but that doesnt mean that im gonna like him. All in all i like him because his realtionship with yu is great and i first met him through the anime because there hes better also because yu has a personality but the game made me like him less. Would have been better if hes gay/bi.
I always had a sort of headcanon about Yosuke having a crush on MC that he wasn't still aware of and then starting to accept himself more by being around Teddy and his more relaxed way of living, and that all his fears around Kanji were just his own projecting. Of course this was just myself trying to avoid at all costs the sad fact that otherwise his character emanates pure incel energy.
I agree with the first part, about him projecting onto Kanji but slowly starting to accept himself. But incel energy? An incel is someone who hates women as a group because they're unable to find love/sex and think they're owed relationships. Even at Yosuke's worst moments, I wouldn't go near as far as saying he doesn't see women as people or thinks the girls' affections are owed to him.
I really like your point that if the protagonist is supposed to be a blank slate, he should have male and female romance options. Because if he's strictly heterosexual, he's not really a blank slate. Personally, I think the protagonist should have been able to romance Yosuke. I felt that Yosuke was trying to overcompensate for his sexuality by being "overly masculine". He makes sexual comments about female characters, but it always felt like he was trying too hard to seem like a "ladies man".
He makes homophobic comments at Kanji, but it always felt like Yosuke was trying to assert how "straight" he is by comparison. Yosuke already struggled with not fitting in when he moved to Inaba, so I'm sure he was afraid of standing out even more. This is why he reacts so strongly if the protagonist gives responses that he perceives as "not masculine". Because Yosuke isn't comfortable with his own sexuality, anyone who is makes him uncomfortable, reminding him of what he's hiding from. In summary, Yosuke was clearly queer coded, but Atlus did him dirty.
Agree
The game coming out in 2008 isn’t really an excuse when Atlus put out really good lgbt representation in the form of Anna and Jun in Persona 2. Seriously, if you haven’t checked out Persona 2, please do. It’s the best form of lgbt rep I have seen in a game period. It actually offers a gay romance route with Jun, and whether or not you follow that path he’s still very much gay and in love with Tatsuya, the player. Tatsuya is actually canonically bisexual, as there are instances of “you look around the room, and see many beautiful women, and many handsome men.” Jun isn’t a token gay character either, he has struggles and a character arc beyond his sexuality, but which tie very much to his romantic feelings to the player. Anna is the same way - wonderful lesbian representation. And even in the background, there are plenty of lgbt npcs. I started playing Eternal Punishment recently and almost immediately ran into two young ladies who were talking to each other about whether their zodiac signs were compatible with each other.
The reason this duology got such amazing rep while the modern games didn’t, though, is because the entire writing staff changed. I still love modern Persona, and I don’t require them to have this sort of rep, but it would have really been nice to see such a realistic portrayal of internalized homophobia in the form of Yosuke. Because, well, we *never* see that explored in fiction of any kind, despite it being such a relatable experience for so many. I think this is because people find it hard to like characters who are openly homophobic, so to explore a character’s struggles in that way might not appeal to audiences who either want a straight character or positive gay rep.
They put that in persona 2 because of the fear of fujoshis getting angry 💀
@@naxzed_it Yeah, no. Fuji Shia don’t have a lot of power and they’ve made it kinda clear that a female audience isn’t a priority at all for them. Plus fujoshis would write doujinishis regardless, and if it was just fanbait the devs wouldn’t have stated Jun was their cannon choice.
It’s so weird in that it’s one of the only franchise to repeatedly go backwards in that start. Persona 2 was pretty good in regards to Jun, p3 had that infamous scene but p3p let you date 2 girls as feMC. P4 with them pulling their punches on the gay portrayal had the unfortunate side effect of gay and homosexuality being the boogie man for Kanji to repeatedly have to prove he’s not throughout the game. P5 … I really like Lala, but it seemed a bit hypocritical about a game purporting to be abour unfairly maligning misfits unfairly portraying gay men as rapists
It also makes certain interactions in the Arena games make a lot more logical sense
Oh, witch one ?
@Happy thoughts Yosuke's internal dialogue is just big FUCK I'M SO GAY energy
@Happy thoughts Don't thank me for the truth my friend B)
@Happy thoughts but no prob lmao
Damn I completely agree, your video was great btw I loved it.
Yes I really do hate that alot of the fandom hates Yosuke just cause of his homophobic lines,, but honestly he's more than that and he CAN be more if Atlus include that damn romance route..
Eh I'll just wait for the modded ver lmao
I honestly think they scrapped his romance route at the last possible moment, and kept almost everything of his original development but without the payout. There are not only the unused lines (both in english and japanese) but there are also jealousy lines ppl found and the other members of the cast talking about your romantic relationship. Also, the hug thing in his SL which was the indication of a romance route with every other woman, and it was always curious to me how in the penultimate SL ranking, you can't almost do anything when every other SL those last ones were important for your development with your SL.
To me, they scrapped it when the game was almost finished and they didn't tied in the loose ends, that's why Yosuke's character and his whole purpose went down the drain. His romance route, or at least the knowledge he's not straight, it's essential to his character as a whole and you can understand the themes of his development knowing that. Without that, he just seems like a random homophobe just because when his character could really well be about him being not-straight in a rural town in Japan.
i’ll just headcanon him as closeted bi/gay from now on lol
That’s what I do 😅
Same here, man :')
Who needs waifus when you can go Yosugay?
I relate to Yosuke a lot. With all the issues each character deals with regarding their identities, he and Naoto are the ones I relate to most. But we're talking about Yosuke here so let's ignore best girl for a second. I really love his character and can't help but agree on the fact of possible internalized homophobia. I've maxed out his S.link at least 3 times, and I've always lived his character. Despite seeming like a carefree guy on the outside I can't help but think that he's also the type of character to internalize his thoughts and feelings. Even though in persona 4 the way you awaken the persona is accepting parts of yourself and handling inner-conflicts, when you max the S.link they re-awaken as we all know. Like they've accepted yet another part of themselves. This shows that there are the parts of themselves they have yet to accept. I personally took forever to come to terms with my identity in the LGBTQIA+ community. It makes sense other people in an even less accepting time would take just as long or longer to accept. I feel like the yosuke romance route would've tied everything up perfectly. Accepting a part of yourself that's definitely one of the hardest to first accept, and awakening to a third persona. Coming to terms with parts of yourself you tried so hard to bury away and deny their existence, and bringing them out to light.
Just because his romance was cut, doesn't mean his bisexuality was cut. His social link being about losing someone he loved, then ending with a romance would've been awkward, especially for the Magician arcana which is specifically about focus.
yeah, 100% agree with you there. like yea it’d be cool to have a yosuke route on paper, but imo they’d have to alter his link so it’s not so jank with the themes. I don’t want the protag to seem like a rebound for him and I don’t want yosuke’s character development to go down the drain either 😭 like if atlus did make his route, ig it’d kinda fix his homophobia a bit? but at the expense of his writing… hmm
tbh the best thing yosuke fans can do rn is take the subtext and headcanon lol
@@pomarril2718 I think the homophobia is more Yosuke acting out his insecurities about his own sexuality. It's not great that he does it, but it makes sense and is a realistic quality for someone in his situation.
@@SantaFeSuperChief1 oh yeah, 100%! I meant “fixing his homophobia” as portraying it more like internalized homophobia so it’s easier to empathize with him 👍 I didn’t phrase it correctly, my b
@@pomarril2718 at least arena somewhat incorporates it in more with finding out labrys isn't human, there is evidence Yosuke may have originally not been as important of a character in the story then he was in the final as there is a unused credit sequence but it has a completely different order as it startes with Yukiko-> Chie-> Yosuke compared to the final where it's the other way around could meant that saki may not have been a thing at the time
Well I feel like they probably changed his social link a bit after they cut out the romance, I don't think they would jump from the grieving right to romance if they had actually gone through it, probably would have been a little different to what we have now
then there’s me as a gay who loves yosuke to death
@Tyler Thompson and no one asked you to reply. doesn’t matter
@@ShaesKyu he's such a sweet dork and there is no way he is "not" gay or bisexual. Sorry I'm sending this to you to maybe cheer you up. I really love yosuke cause he is not a uke or seme. He's Yosuke.
Probably because he's one of the best examples of gay teens ever put in a game, much less a JRPG. He's literally the king of internalised homophobia, and they forgot to scrub all the actual evidence when they locked the one single gate to not romance him.
it is really a shame, yosuke was a character i could relate to quite a bit so it was never fun hearing his comments on kanji. especially since when you go through his social link you actually see how great he really is. i have known about the scrapped romance route for a while, and i can't help but imagine just how much would have changed both about audience perspective, and the overall game itself. he's still my favorite character despite all the problematic things he said, while it's not okay for him to say this stuff i can acknowledge that the game is from 2008, and golden wasn't too far behind either.
I really wanna know what happened with the gay portrayal in this game. Yosuke was originally romanceable and Kanji was clearly meant to be canonically gay at one point (there’s some quotes from one of the team members relating to that) but they really pulled their punch there. I wanna know what happened
Yosuke reads so much like a closeted gay man it's not even funny, so the romance option would have been a very natural fit.
I don't think it cheapens the game to not have it, though. It would have fit his character, but you can still interpret him that way without it. I mean hell, he was clearly written with that intention in mind.
Wait, so it never had a romance route, but they thought about adding one in the pc version but didn't do it?
I also feel they should give options, I don't think the original work should be censored because of social norms in the future, but imporved upon in later games, we didn't see the same thing in persona 5, there still a joke about it like saying you love Ryuji and he thinks if you do that he can't show his face at school if you do that, so labelling him something hes not which feels a lot more harmless than ''oh since you're bi/gay, are we safe from getting raped by you?'' you could ask the same, ''is chie and yukiko safe with you yosuke?'' its a rude question, but teens in 2008? Not too surprising, but they don't know better, its understandable and the player can just think ''what an asshole'' and move on and watch yosuke grow. Which is why we shouldn't remove everything that seems problematic to us.
They did change the scene in persona 5 royal where it seems Ryuji is sweeped away by two gay harassers and changed it to gay guys that want to dress him up or something, I'm not mad about the removal especially since its means less Ryuji abuse but its a shame when original stuff needs to be altered.
However, if said things are problematic in a previous game, evolve in the next game. Have more choices, gay and lesbian, male and female protagonist, its more work but I'd love it. Also, this is kinda nitpicking but back in 2008, I was kanji's age, now I'm way older so the romances feel kinda weird, so it would be cool if persona 6 happened in a collage or something. However, I'm not a business man and the main audience is prolly high school teen boys, so spending a lot of money to make gay and lesbian choices, male and female might feel overkill to them but idk, maybe more people will start playing the series?
No this cut audio has existed since before the PC version. A possible yosuke romance isn’t a new thing, as this cut audio existed in previous versions of the game
tcrf.net/Persona_4/Unused_Voice_Clips/Social_Links
The main reason for the, not explicitly hate but, dislike for homosexuality is due to it being made in Japan, and Japanese people are more careful about what they want to add into games or what to spread to the world (which is why Japan has such strict street, gun and drug laws. Japan likes to insure their status to other countries is of high standard, thus they look at homosexuality as a bad thing.) I think by adding a gay character (Kanji) they did enough to support homosexuality. A romance option of the same gender would be cool but at that point that would just be asking for twitter point if ya catch my drift.
Honestly, this is the main reason that i think the reinstalled romance mod is one of the absokute must haves in golden
In persona 2, you can have 2 male romance routes, and 2 female romance routes. I wish other persona games followed this rule of balance.
THIS HAS 2.2K VIEWS AND IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY
So back when p3 reload was announced I started thinking, what would persona 4 look like if it was completely remade? Here is where my opinions lie, palace esc dungeons would work really well here, unlike how Tartarus from p3 which would be kinda sluggish, reprised voice cast, more in-touch dialogue, and finally, a yosuke romance route. I genuinely want some feedback on this because I want to know your opinions! (Also video is very good)
Most of this has nothing to do with the video, but I think they could add in Baton Passes, Persona negotiations, more camera control, letting you do stuff in your room after a day in a dungeon, more times and places to read, Nuclear and Psych elements, non-insta-kill Bless/Light and Curse/Darkness skills, some new areas to Inaba, maybe something like a Big Bang Burger restaurant to reference P5, redesign the battle menu to use more buttons, make Okina a bit bigger, give the player the ability to actually explore on the trip to Tatsumi Port Island and maybe unlock some secrets that tie into P3, connect the North and South shopping district, and everything that you suggested.
As a Queer person myself, I just don’t understand how you can experience Kanji’s sauna, especially w how the rest of the town deems him, and then NOT feel uneasy for a while. Yosuke wasn’t homophobic, Kanji just made him uncomfortable 😭
I kinda wish Yosuke was gay because of the way it would re-contextualize his character...but I'm glad he's not romanceable. I feel like it would have been a huge distraction from their close friendship, which really should be the focus IMO.
I think persona should keep going the P3P kinda system. Male and Female routes. I think they give a reason to play both routes. If you could romance everyone in both routes, I feel the Male and Female routes have lost it’s potential and doesn’t really need to exist otherwise. And if Atlus doesn’t add Male and Female routes back in Persona 6, then making them bisexual is probably out of Atlus’s mind.
ITS HERE. ITS OUT
that's cool and all, but never forget FeMC not being playable (understandable), and Sae not being romancable (unacceptable because of how there was code for it).
Throw in Akechi and Ryuji as well.
Persona 4 is my favorite game of all time and I love yosuke I don’t think he needs a romance path but that’s just me.
Screaming
Tl;dr: I want gay.