The lack of political will on this is painful. It's been talked about for decades. North south rail would allow for a regional rail network that could transform the city, not to mention open up new housing options.
There is nothing on the other side but a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. There will be no funding left to build this regional S-bahan type system, when this, like the artery, consumes all the capital funding for a half century into the future. Political will? no one loses elections treating transit users as expendable.
There is nothing on the other side but a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. There will be no funding left to build this regional S-bahan type system, when this, like the artery, consumes all the capital funding for a half century into the future. Political will? no one loses elections treating transit users as a throw-away constituency.
We could have had it with the Big Dig but Dukakis, Salvucci, Weld, Cellucci, Swift, Baker, Kerasiotes and last but not least the FHWA screwed it all up. $14 billion plus interest blown and the traffic is worse than ever!
@@EdwardM-t8p OH YA! isn't it ironic that Mikey Duke, the self avowed champion of mass transit, delivered us a massive highway project that sucked up all the construction capital for a good half century, and doomed any meaningful transit expansion.
The Commonwealth has study as stalling tactic elevated to a fine art, it functions as an employment guarantee program, for those with degrees in "planning". After years of advocacy, I determined through hours dragging myself to endless meetings, I would have saved more time in my life by just walking or riding my bike.
Philadelphia did this in the 1980s, connecting the Penn-Central and Reading systems into a single system in center-city. This line is not even the Amtrak line, only serving regional rail, yet it serves such a benefit. Inconceivable this has not yet been done in Boston, particularly not during the "big dig" project.
What does talking about overseas have to do with passenger trains here in Massachusetts. And there is already a link between northand south station that goes through Cambridge
Correct! And develop-able, Thing is, political skill will thwart good value civil engineering. Just try getting expanded rail traffic through Cambridge With one of the highest densities of lawyers per square mile in the state, and watch the NIMBYs swarm out like you threw a brick at a hornets nest.
Just build it through Foxborough, Framingham, Lowell, Lawrence and Haverhill. Or a B.B. Railway and dam connecting Squantum Neck Quincy to Revere that keeps the sea out. Building the NSRL under the Central Artery tunnel and the Blue Line will just invite permanent flooding from storm surges with increased sea levels.
It could go on top of the flood Wall they are proposing, as the next rail expansion eviscerating scheme, operations wise, it would be like the FEC to Key West.
Or a belt railway in the 128/I95 corridor, like how the TGV deals with Paris for through runs. Thing is, to get the money interested, it had to be under the Financial district.
Both will be needed, count the trains, at scoping sessions some years ago, this was admitted. so; who gets to use the tunnel? and who is told to take the bus.
@@interstellarphred I would look at several things. First of all, I would look at which lines have the largest expected run-through traffic. Then I would look at average trip time. Then I would try to pair lines North and South. Finally. I would try to have the tunnel be at least six tracks. Two for Amtrak and four for MBTA. By routing all Amtrak trains through the tunnel, you could have massive service expansions to northern New England. NYC-Bangor, NYC-North Conway, anybody?
@@00Zy99 Go around the city to the West, Why does this need to be under a very small big building district? This is not Manhattan. The costs will preclude the build-out of the envisioned transformed regional system. Do not get put into the dreaded phase three, It will get cancelled due to the cost overruns.
@@interstellarphred The rail lines aren't configured to make that easy, and it would mean that through trains would not serve the center of the city (or they would have to massively back-track). That was tried in the early part of the 20th Century, and its probably one of the reasons why all long-distance service North of Boston died in the 1960s.
@@00Zy99 This tunnel would be even more difficult. Your rebuttal reveals some of contradictory nature of the rhetoric surrounding the rationalization for the downtown routing. There would not be this transformation of the Regional rail system as touted, as the tunnel would cannibalize all other necessary capital expansion to make that happen. Please review the extensive comments on this subject, I was there; I know who the political players are, their motivations, priorities, and what issues are being ignored, and concealed in this quest. It could be built for a fraction of the cost at grade on that glorified median strip sanctified with the Kennedy name, and not be any slower. Those who are already better served than You and I will have their services enhanced further, and everyone else will be told to take the bus, while waiting a half century for phase two, three, and snowflake in hell to be funded.
NO you can't Seth, 100 feet below sea level with lots of holes in it next to a rising ocean? the engineering is so exotic there will be nothing left to build out the regional system. Build it to the West, and avoid the flooding issues. Another point: Traveling through Is of questionable utility, when the stations are in desolate parking lots, away from any development. Concentrate on electrification and forget about battery power. Count the trains, the stub stations will need to remain. !, They lost me as an advocate when it was proposed shoving inflatable corks into the pedestrian passages with deeper than Porter Square escalators when a storm was forecast.
@@ElectricEvan There are no holes in the Blue line tunnel at the deepest point. It will make great flood storage to keep the highway open. I have heard that simplistic rebuttal countless times.
@@ElectricEvan It literally goes through the blue clay under the water, Which is fairly impervious on a par with the chalk marl strata that the Chunnel rests in. I have read the 1903 Boston Transit Commission report, that has the geotechnics, construction details, and methods.
@@mikeflanary642 Better make it an array of really big pumps, so when the deeper than Porter Square banks of escalators become a water feature, due to the storm surges of the rising ocean, we can have it pumped out and rewired in only a year or two after the multiyear study.
The lack of political will on this is painful. It's been talked about for decades.
North south rail would allow for a regional rail network that could transform the city, not to mention open up new housing options.
There is nothing on the other side but a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. There will be no funding left to build this regional S-bahan type system, when this, like the artery, consumes all the capital funding for a half century into the future. Political will? no one loses elections treating transit users as expendable.
There is nothing on the other side but a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. There will be no funding left to build this regional S-bahan type system, when this, like the artery, consumes all the capital funding for a half century into the future. Political will? no one loses elections treating transit users as a throw-away constituency.
We could have had it with the Big Dig but Dukakis, Salvucci, Weld, Cellucci, Swift, Baker, Kerasiotes and last but not least the FHWA screwed it all up. $14 billion plus interest blown and the traffic is worse than ever!
@@EdwardM-t8p OH YA! isn't it ironic that Mikey Duke, the self avowed champion of mass transit, delivered us a massive highway project that sucked up all the construction capital for a good half century, and doomed any meaningful transit expansion.
BUILD IT!
In Worcester, It is already there, in mothballs
The Boston area talks and studies way too much when it comes to housing and transit and doesn’t actually do anything
The Commonwealth has study as stalling tactic elevated to a fine art, it functions as an employment guarantee program, for those with degrees in "planning". After years of advocacy, I determined through hours dragging myself to endless meetings, I would have saved more time in my life by just walking or riding my bike.
Always good to hear Seth.
Philadelphia did this in the 1980s, connecting the Penn-Central and Reading systems into a single system in center-city. This line is not even the Amtrak line, only serving regional rail, yet it serves such a benefit. Inconceivable this has not yet been done in Boston, particularly not during the "big dig" project.
What does talking about overseas have to do with passenger trains here in Massachusetts.
And there is already a link between northand south station that goes through Cambridge
Correct! And develop-able, Thing is, political skill will thwart good value civil engineering. Just try getting expanded rail traffic through Cambridge With one of the highest densities of lawyers per square mile in the state,
and watch the NIMBYs swarm out like you threw a brick at a hornets nest.
@@interstellarphred Which is pathetic. Just build the darn thing.
Will the 'T' ever buy modern trains in 2024?
Just build it through Foxborough, Framingham, Lowell, Lawrence and Haverhill. Or a B.B. Railway and dam connecting Squantum Neck Quincy to Revere that keeps the sea out. Building the NSRL under the Central Artery tunnel and the Blue Line will just invite permanent flooding from storm surges with increased sea levels.
It could go on top of the flood Wall they are proposing, as the next rail expansion eviscerating scheme, operations wise, it would be like the FEC to Key West.
Or a belt railway in the 128/I95 corridor, like how the TGV deals with Paris for through runs. Thing is, to get the money interested, it had to be under the Financial district.
South Station expansion versus rail link?
Why not both?
Both is good.
Both are needed.
Both will be needed, count the trains, at scoping sessions some years ago, this was admitted. so; who gets to use the tunnel? and who is told to take the bus.
@@interstellarphred I would look at several things. First of all, I would look at which lines have the largest expected run-through traffic. Then I would look at average trip time. Then I would try to pair lines North and South.
Finally. I would try to have the tunnel be at least six tracks. Two for Amtrak and four for MBTA. By routing all Amtrak trains through the tunnel, you could have massive service expansions to northern New England. NYC-Bangor, NYC-North Conway, anybody?
@@00Zy99 Go around the city to the West, Why does this need to be under a very small big building district? This is not Manhattan. The costs will preclude the build-out of the envisioned transformed regional system. Do not get put into the dreaded phase three, It will get cancelled due to the cost overruns.
@@interstellarphred The rail lines aren't configured to make that easy, and it would mean that through trains would not serve the center of the city (or they would have to massively back-track). That was tried in the early part of the 20th Century, and its probably one of the reasons why all long-distance service North of Boston died in the 1960s.
@@00Zy99 This tunnel would be even more difficult. Your rebuttal reveals some of contradictory nature of the rhetoric surrounding the rationalization for the downtown routing. There would not be this transformation of the Regional rail system as touted, as the tunnel would cannibalize all other necessary capital expansion to make that happen. Please review the extensive comments on this subject, I was there; I know who the political players are, their motivations, priorities, and what issues are being ignored, and concealed in this quest. It could be built for a fraction of the cost at grade on that glorified median strip sanctified with the Kennedy name, and not be any slower. Those who are already better served than You and I will have their services enhanced further, and everyone else will be told to take the bus, while waiting a half century for phase two, three, and snowflake in hell to be funded.
NO you can't Seth, 100 feet below sea level with lots of holes in it next to a rising ocean? the engineering is so exotic there will be nothing left to build out the regional system. Build it to the West, and avoid the flooding issues.
Another point: Traveling through Is of questionable utility, when the stations are in desolate parking lots, away from any development. Concentrate on electrification and forget about battery power. Count the trains, the stub stations will need to remain. !, They lost me as an advocate when it was proposed shoving inflatable corks into the pedestrian passages with deeper than Porter Square escalators when a storm was forecast.
You get that the blue line literally goes under water right? Like tunnels under water are a long established technology by now.
@@ElectricEvan There are no holes in the Blue line tunnel at the deepest point. It will make great flood storage to keep the highway open. I have heard that simplistic rebuttal countless times.
@@ElectricEvan It literally goes through the blue clay under the water, Which is fairly impervious on a par with the chalk marl strata that the Chunnel rests in.
I have read the 1903 Boston Transit Commission report, that has the geotechnics, construction details, and methods.
Build pumps. That's what they have with the subway and the big dig.
@@mikeflanary642 Better make it an array of really big pumps, so when the deeper than Porter Square banks of escalators become a water feature, due to the storm surges of the rising ocean, we can have it pumped out and rewired in only a year or two after the multiyear study.