Lepage Wax-Bullet Dueling Pistols
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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In the early years of the 20th century, before the Great War tempered society's interest in the martial arts, dueling came into the popular vogue. Not the lethal kind, but rather a more sporting style using pistols firing wax balls instead of lead bullets. It was even demonstrated at the 1908 Olympics (although not made an official part of the Games, as some claim).
Today we are at the Institute of Military Technology looking at a beautiful early 1900s set of Lepage Brothers wax-ball dueling pistols made in Paris, along with their specialty ammunition and protective gear. For the record, we did try firing these, and found that the primer caps were all sadly destroyed by time and would not fire. A shame, because I was hoping to bring you a proper duel between myself and the IMT's Curator!
Anyway, the sport bears quite a lot of similarity to today's innovative new (*cough*) trend in force-on-force firearms training, just styled more like fencing than a HEMA melee. The protective gear was just what you would expect today - a handguard to protect the knuckles and a mask to protect the head, with a clear solid visor over the eyes and a metal shield to protect the mouth. Add a heavy coat, and you're all ready to go!
Thanks to the Institute of Military Technology for allowing me to have access to this very cool gear so I can bring it to you! Check out the IMT at:
www.instmiltech...
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Forgotten Weapons
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Wax Dueling, practically doubles the odds of having a repeat customer
I actually laughed out loud 😄 ty
Is this a joke about BDSM?
@@junlee3515 well if it wasn't, it is now.
I didn't get it, but I gave you a like and hope someone can elaborate
@@IgorDz no
8:02 when you realise assholes were freezing their wax balls 117 years ago just like they freeze their paintballs today
the biggest take away I got from this channel is how smart people were in the old times
@@alexm566 We've pretty much always known the concepts, it's just that now, we have the technology to actually try those concepts. A British officer is on record proposing an IFV to the letter in the 1920s. It just took until 1956 for anyone to actually make it work, and the PT-76 was pretty shit, hence why it was so quickly replaced
Funny thing is, id imagine to afford this sport and a freezer was high times back then.
@@alexm566 yea, you had to be smart when saying the wrong thing could result in death. People today are too comfortable with being assholes and then being protected by the law so being an asshole becomes the norm.
dont let alec baldwin near these, he'd freeze a molten slug of lead to put in there.
Popular mechanics ran an article titled " Blast away indoors with wax bullets" many years ago. This article outlined modification of .38 special cases to accept a 209 primer and using cookie cutter style wadcutter projectiles of paraffin . We made extensive use of such for indoor target shooting as kids. Never tried them force on force however. Thanks for sharing !
I did a lot of wax-bullet shooting years ago, after reading Bill Jordan’s “No Second Place Winner”. He used wax for training. .38 special cases with the primer flash-hole drilled out, and the case forced through a block of standard paraffin.
They were quite accurate and hit pretty hard as well, propelled only by the primer.
I was introduced to primer propelled wax bullets in the late fifties. I believe the primers for the dueling pistol were more powerful, they were certainly bigger than the primers for .38 spl rounds.
We reloaded at home and used the wax bullets for our rather rustic basement range. They are surprisingly accurate within about twenty five yards, inside, with no wind. They smart pretty good at ten yards. 😐
Glad to see someone else was trying to shoot his friend with a wax in the fifties. My buddies dad caught us and made us wear safety glasses and you are right when hit it smarts like hell.
Reminds me of when guys would shoot shotgun wads at each other. Dangerous and painful, but fun!
Those are shotshell primers. They were introduced at the end of 19 century by French firearms engineer (don't really know how to write his name in English, sorry), and today it's extremely common for 12ga plastic cases.
I would use the wax bullets propelled by a shotgun primer in a plastic case(.38spl) in my SW model 66 to shoot at the T.V.! I would feel like Elvis!!
Of course I would have a comment before each shot!!!
☝😎👍
Macnutz420 says a dude named Macnutz420.
It does make one wonder how history would have gone if Hamilton and Burr had had, and taken advantage of, such a set up.
You know, I hadn't thought about that.
I'm surprised the idea of dueling with our airsoft pistols never occurred to me and my brother, given how often we decided our arguments by boxing match.
For everyone who enjoyed this video
I recommend the book
'Burr' by Gore Vidal
They had wax back then. They would have tarred and feathered you for daring to suggest that a matter of honor shouldn't involve putting one's life on the line.
Some years ago I heard from that kind of thing, and decided to test it. Loaded wax bullet to empty primed .22 LR case and got one of my friends to shoot with that from .22 revolver. Better have thick clothes, it hurted quite much and made nice bruise. Certainly more powerfull than airsoft ball, I wouldn't want to get hit from anything bigger caliber.
so its like primitive airsoft
NytOnPeliAika no paint ball! But yes you are right really!
More like simmunition guns
You can also load a signle shot percussion pistol (or revolver f you want to duel the Old West way...) with a wax bullet.
This is a lot like airsoft, yes.
Many early airsoftguns, from the 80's, had cartridges like these too. While none used primers or wax bullets that I'm aware of, it took a while for the 6mm plastic BB's we know and love to be standardized. 7mm squeeze bore pellets were common for some time.
Asahi used fin stabilized pellets in cartridges pressurized by hand pumps in their now legendary M700 replica rifles - most of these were confiscated and destroyed by the Japanese government in the 90's, as they could accept .22 conversion kits made for the real M700. Only an estimated 20-25 rifles remain.
Conor Foster Tell me, is Simunition and guns or something equivalent sold in the US to normal people, or do they only sell to LE/military?
My dad has a book which I loved looking through as a little kid growing up, a historical book about antique firearms and the history thereof.
The reason I love your show so much is because it is like that book, but a video version of it.
Absolutely enthralled by your work!
Hell yeah! Let’s bring back dueling!
I agree. We will see the leftist regressive stop being so thinned skinned and offended when there is a possibility of being shot involved. XD
You kidding right? Give all those little kids who thinks being an offensive little shit is a right guns and let them shoot people? You really must be stupid t think such a thing is a good idea.
Use paintballs....
Wax bullets are still used in Cowboy Fast Draw. Shooting yourself in the leg with a 400-500 fps wax bullet is no fun at all but it doesn't result in a trip to the ER or bleeding out on the ground with a bullet through the femoral artery.
Speer makes plastic cases & bullets that use primers for propulsion and X-Ring makes primer powed soft rubber bullets that stand up to repeated use in 9mm, 38, 40, 44, & 45 caliber. They use regular brass, but the flash holes have to be drilled out so the primer doesn't back out when fired. Some use X-Ring bullets in force on force training.
Laser training cartridges for dry fire training are the high tech version of wax bullets. I've tried them all and laser cartridges are the best.
Why I love this channel, just by the title didn't sound all that interesting to me, but having watched it now Ian has made me want to try to find a set cause that actually looks like fun, expensive fun, but fun.
Wayne Hindes or you can use a soft projectile in almost any handgun. Wax, foam earplugs, rubber with a very small charge.
Couldn't you do this with a cap and ball revolver if you wanted?
Airsoft handguns are a LOT cheaper!
We use to duel with paintball pistols - does anyone remember the splatmaster? You had to pull back the cocking mechanism between each shot so you really had to make each shot count. When the “rapid” came out with a double action trigger semi-auto it was a literal game changer.
It is quite difficult to imitate the real duel with non-hurting weapon, because in the real duel, you were supposed to to wound your opponent also to prevent them from fire you back.... If the opponent was hit to the heart or head, he would probably be unable to return a fire. Otherwise he could shot you back, even after being heavily injured, as in this film: ruclips.net/user/clipUgkxH9KqfJ__P9CcKClvMTaB0trHBwJN7VEG
Always wanted a smg-60
The handguard is shaped like a heart so your opponent knows that you are sending some love his way.
I've read in one Vietnam war memoir about a similar past time. The soldiers would remove the bullets and gunpowder charge and fill the casing with soap. The primer explosion had enough energy to fire the soap at some serious velocities.
I love the heart-shape of the handgard. It has this flavor of Sailor Moon. "Waxbullet, fly and win!"
I used to make wax pellets for my 5mm air rifle when I lived in Arizona for black widow eradication in my house and yarn. No damage to past target furniture, walls, windows........ Very effective.
Yeah, but who wins the duel? I'm guessing the one who isn't limping from the shot to the balls.
Lol. Just got the image of them wearing protective clothing everywhere - except their junk has to be exposed.
45CaliberCure 😂 love this idea. We should bring this back as a way to settle disputes, the „balls out“ rule would make sure that only really serious matters where both parties are really in with conviction (or shall we say balls deep) are solved this way.
I fully support this idea
@@AndreasMSchroeder The skill cap would be pretty high. The one with the smaller balls would also have an advantage.
@@AndreasMSchroeder maybe that where the balls out term came from lol
we have experimented with wax bullets in a 357, propelling with a shotgun primer (of course you slightly have to modify the case). Works neat for shooting pop cans in the basement or birds in a building. We even used a little black powder for booster and were able to burry the was bullets into fir planking.
3:52 if we didn't have photos like this, people would think you tucked those flaps inside your jacket I bet
Lyman Accra-Wax was available when I was several years younger. Push the case mouth into a sheet of wax to cut a plug, insert primer and you had something that would readily dispatch little critters in the basement. I suspect the primers in these were low power. Standard rifle primers in a .30 caliber weapon were capable of doing some damage.
We did this back in the very early eighties with the original Nelspot marking pistols. Back when the paintballs were permanent paint and much harder than modern paintball balls. Great fun if you were better than the other guy!
Barrel is grooved just like in modern long range hunting or presicion rifles.. Don't recall seeing that before in early 20th century weapons.. Beautifully made pistols. Would probably be a joy to shoot with live ammo.
This idea, wax bullet, faux cartidge, primer-only propellant should be adaptable to almost any centerfire cartridge with a shotgun primer. I remember CCI used to make "plastic shells and bullets" fireable with primers only for indoor target practice. The CCIs were intended for paper targets only.
It would be instructive to line up against one who claims "you can't hit the broad side or a barn with a service 1911", offer them the first shot and prove them wrong.
I've read that on Christmas Eve 1905, an ethereal figure entered the Lepage shop just before closing time and enquired if they had anything in .58 caliber with a conical wax bullet and an actual powder charge. The elderly manager of the shop recognized this mysterious patron as the ghost of Colonel Minié and feinted flat out...
This is one of the coolest “off the beaten track” FW’s ever
"Can we have dueling?"
"We have dueling at home"
Honestly, this should make a comeback as a sport. True we have paintball and airsoft - and how we love them so - but like fencing, there's just something so cool about having to do a backs turned twenty pace single-shot duel with a flintlock-esque pistol.
I give it about 12 hours before Othias finds a secret document saying these were for more gentlemanly vermin shooting or something.
depending on the nature of your opponent, that may be correct
One of the first high tech toys. I have done this. I was undefeated for 8 or 9 years. But we used 80s model nel spot tree markers.
Who needs a remote? A good enough shot could probably spin the channel knob on an old television set with one of these. Never have to leave the couch.
Being shot in the knuckles by a paintball is probably the worst place to get shot...
KorbinX i could imagine one or two spots even worse...
Seelenschmiede trust me, ive been shot everywhere but directly in the eye, one close to the eye, and several in the jingley bits
YOU ALWAYS ARE DIRECT &
TO THE POINT SIR ! GREAT OPENER ! AS EVER, YOUR REVIEW OF EACH UNIQUE HISTORY & DEFT MECHANICS OF PIECES DISPLAYED, MAKE YOUR ONLINE COURSES TOPS !
Please bring back this fun game
I think this should come back today as a sport
Aaawweee, the shields are heart shaped! Nothing says love like a wax slug to the face!!!
I love the idea of stopping by Rue Martell to pursue a warranty claim.
I learned how to shoot with wax bullets. The lead bullets were removed by my dad the cartridges were then pushed through paraffin wax bars. Our garage was turned into a temporary range.
What a wonderful piece of machinery😁
Definitely need to bring this sport back
Hi Ian, the Cowboy action shooters have made a version of these cartridges. They have a pocket for a 209 primer in a special case, and wax bullets. I believe in most pistol calibers. I have them in .45. I have shot them in my basement. Pretty accurate actually.
Merci beaucoup pour cet exposé et cette découverte.
I've shot quite a few wax bullets propelled with primers. They are deadly at close range. They'll blow a rat to kingdom come. Also, they embed deeply into sheetrock walls.
Brilliant. We would all enjoy a few goes at this. Im sure the odd bet was laid too.
Bring this back as a sport
You need to do a video on the Lepage glue-gun, glue entire formations in air mid flight.
Ah... I see that you're a man of culture as well.
(aka: excellent _Catch-22_ reference)
They should make more of these
Viewing on my phone so apologies if someone has already covered tbis.
If you like this idea you may be interested to learn that Pedersoli offer an aftermarket kit to adapt their ML pistols - replacement nipple holds a shotgun primer and polymer balls. Also adapted cases for some revolvers. You'd be on your own for PPE though as the intended use is indoor target practice!
In the novel Catch-22 there was a rumored 3rd Reich's "LePage Glue Gun" that could glue an entire formation of Allied bombers together in flight!
oh believe me I agree dueling should be legal. Hell I really don't see why not. if both parties would agree to it and sign something that definitely seems like the Baseline for freedom LOL
It was outlawed on the basis of 'mutually agreed upon vigilante justice' still being vigilante justice, and having all of the problems that entails. Even back in the sword days, there was blackmail to force one party's hand, cheating, feuds, and there where duels over the results of duels. If you're trying to have a society where the rule of law is king (and western civilization has been built on it for the most part), then having people agree to ignore it for the sake of quick resolution becomes problematic.
And I honestly don't see legalizing it actually resulting in any duels either. And the few that did happen would be under circumstances where 'Guy wins the duel only to be hit by so much 5.56 that I can moonlight as a boat anchor, courtesy of the the other party's angry family'
Possibly the most pointed opening statement ever to an instructional video.
The box and its layout gave me Dishonored vibes.
For real, a modern version of this should be remade. It could help settle a lot of disputes without bloodshed (provided these duels are monitored of course).
Use foam earplugs with your .45.
Works ok with a 9mm too. It’ll knock over a coke can.
Dueling is a great concept.
No wigs or face paint in the 1900's. In fact none after 1789. There was a little incident called the French Revolution which made them sort of impopular.
Why is this not a sport today!? I would totally have season tickets to this. Who's with me?
What a beautiful pistol!
So why did this sport fall out of favour a decade later? It seems to coincide with the beginning of the Great War, but that could also be coincidence?
Also if anyone wants to duel these days similarly. Go get your Nerf, paintball or Airsoft gun, load your 1 round and follow the same old procedures. I've done it before with friends at paintball and Airsoft games, and it is totally fun during break times.
Ian waxing poetic about wax bullet guns.
Interestingly, my understanding is that the load did have a very light charge of powder and there were injuries.
Could this gun have been the inspiration behind this part of Catch-22 ?
"Yossarian sidled up drunkenly to Colonel Korn at the officers' club one night to kid with him about the new Lepage gun that the Germans had moved in. "What Lepage gun?" Colonel Korn inquired with curiosity. "The new three hundred and forty four millimeter Lepage glue gun," Yossarian answered. "It glues a whole formation of planes together in mid-air." " (Joseph Heller: Catch-22, p. 124.)
Man, you ain't kidding about being shot in the knuckles with a paintball. Ouch!
We did something similar as kids, only with air rifles and blue tack.
gotta try that!
@@renegadedonutshorse Wear goggles!
The world "needs" a airsoft single shot duel league
Thanks for sharing. This was an olympic sport at some point.
Dream job Ian. Jealous. (Hope I am I close on the spelling?) You are almost a ringer for a friend I had in high school. Was our best man too. Really enjoy your work. All the best to you. 1/10/18
Handguard is heart-shaped as well.
Dueling with love.
I feel like you could play this game with any cap and ball black powder weapon, with a light black powder load.
This actuallu sounds like a sport I'd like to practice.
This was actually a pretty good idea. Shame it didn't catch on to the extent it should have.
Interesting video! I had heard of those indeed, but the few articles I saw never mentionned the name so I didn't knew much about those guns.
As a side note, in France, this "duel replacement" never caught on with the upper class, officers, nobles; they instead turned to use the épée (smallsword?) with the rule being that the first to manage to draw blood would win, proving victory without killing the opponent.
The last publicly know duel in France happened as late as 1967, between two members of the French Parliament, the Socialist Gaston Deferre and the Gaullist René Ribière (which is, ironically, totally forgotten today aside from being involved in that duel). Gaston Deferre won the duel; twice, as René Ribière was touched once but insisted that they would keep going.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Duel_ribiere_defferre_1967_Lipkowski.jpg
From left to right, Ribière, Jean de Lipkowski (witnessing the duel) and Deferre.
My homies and i have decided that this is the perfect thing to settle a disagreement between us, were gonna go dual in my back yard with paintballs till we decide on pizza or burgers
This thing looks cool. Always wanted to duel with pistols but not die.
I was so hoping Ian would duel with someone.
Duelling? Well, that sounds like a sport for a true gentlemen!
i would love to see a MSBS Radon on the channel, they are quite interesting, and not very well known in the US
You know, Ian, if you make a Patreon-only video of you and Karl facing off with this gear, I bet you'd get a bunch of new patrons (myself included!)
WOW! they should have add this sports in the olympics like what they did in fencing, I wonder why they didn't?
It actually was on the Olympic program - but apparently it didn't catch on!
Someone loads one pistol with lead and you have a nice scenario for a period murder mystery!
1905: Let's make Dueling a fun sport! (Nobody will load lead instead of wax, will they? What could go wrong at 10 paces?)
Cool pistols! Thank you for sharing this.
Wax dueling pistols - I'm in!
Now this was completely new to me. Never heard of this. Are wax bullets and correspindent guns available even today?
I'd definitely try this
Noice👍 That sounds like a lot of fun. Sad that this isn't a thing anymore. Maybe too many deaths because people switched the ammo.
This actually sounds fun
Fascinating as usual Ian 👌🏻
Bring back dueling!
nice guns and sport!! excellent review!
What I take away from this is that the Internet can be fixed by bringing back dueling law
I made my own wax bullets and shot them out of a revolver. Just used a primer and no gun powder. Pretty cool.
My brother and I would use our 22LR. We pulled the bullet and replaced it with candle wax.
Well to address the initial point: dueling was banned in the European empires *because* it lead to lots of stupid fights, it didn't prevent them. Late monarchy France lost a big chunk of its nobility from dueling, and later much of the 1800s army officers died from duels so it had to be rebanned to stop a military brain drain. Similar things happened in the UK and the US: armed dueling tended to escalate verbal quips into shouting matches and finally lethal armed fighting.
I like how they used "Amusing" in that article, it has to be Amusing or fail!
"I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUAL"
"Nah, I'm good brah, I'll pass..."
Usually .44 Russian which you could also use for target shooting
Can we please bring back dueling?
Would have loved to see a test fire. Defiantly not lacking in ammo!
Why isn't this a thing anymore?