The Climb: MMR, Rank, & LP
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Ever wonder how your MMR and Rank work together to determine LP gains/losses? Just tune in to this demonstration by Braum and his fluffy friend!
tl;dw:
Bigger LP gains, smaller LP losses : MMR is higher than RANK
About Equal LP gains/losses : MMR is equal to RANK
Smaller LP gains, bigger LP losses : MMR is lower than RANK
Check out the Player Support article for more info!
support-league...
Animation: ehlBoy
League is the kind of game where you go in a 10x winstreak, then lose 3 games and end up with less LP than when you started
Same shit
@@hsk5785 sounds like somebody's jealous
yes
haha you do be soo right though xDD
I take a break after one loss so my mental doesn't go to shit
From this animation I now understand that unless I’m willing to set myself on fire to climb I should give up when my MMR is equal to my LP.
Too bad you cant see youreactual MMR, only speculations that vary WILDY from 3rd party to 3rd party.
Why does the animation tell you that? Please elaborate
Raging is how you climb. Thanks rito
So you need Braum support to climb! STAND BEHIND BRAUM!
xD
The Drop: *Quit because the game grinds you down and wastes your time.*
see u in 3 months
How does it do that?
best comment
So Riot pretty much admits that unless you're jobless and can grind solo queue all day you shouldn't even pick up their game
How did they admit that?
this is a reach
This makes it look like MMR is a piton to help you climb when in fact it is an anchor to drag you down and slow your progress in most cases.
It helps you climb when you are lower but reduce your climb when mmr is lower. This is simple math and should be that way for an elo system.
@@2fliege It sucks that you have to put in a ton of games to affect your mmr though and every random loss sets you back just a little. It seems like it would be really hard to make drastic shifts like trying to climb multiple tiers. I know in my case right now I'm silver 1 35 LP with a 58% win rate and my LP gains are barely more than my losses. I'm around +26/27 and -23/24. If I wanted to climb past gold into platinum, even with an insane win rate I can see this equalizing and flipping where I'm losing more than I'm winning after a point. So how is my account ever supposed to get to, say, master tier? Would it take hundreds or thousands of games with a heavily positive win rate to adjust my MMR to where I'm not +10 -30 at that level? It seems like MMR adjusts a lot slower than LP does so I can see the argument for MMR being more of an anchor that drags you down more than helps you up
@@FlashKillerX If it was strictly based on MMR it would also take you a large number of games to increase your mmr to that of a masters player, visibly you would just see less significant changes after each game. If you wanted it to shift quickly, someone who went on a very lucky streak of 10 or even 15 games in a row could streak from plat 4 to diamond despite being a plat 2 or 3 player in reality.
LOL's mmr system does not play a role in dividing a player's level by game skill, but simply inducing them to play a lot. The reason, of course, is money.
based
on point
Rito: "Oh you're doing well? Here, let me make you lose more LP than you gain until we get you put back in your place because you obviously got to this point on a fluke. Oh and here's your four 40% winrate teammates against 60% winrate enemies who are 2-3 divisions ahead of you and everyone else on your team."
Tell me I'm wrong....
What does winrate have to do with who you match up with in an elo system??? A perfect elo system does not care about your winrate. Winrate is only an indicator of relative skill, ie if ur better or worse than your CURRENT elo. Your MMR is a better indicator of how good you are right now. Obviously mmr only shows you, your true skill level when you have 50% winrate, otherwise you can try to estimate with a combination of mmr and winrate.
So in other words the system should ALWAYS match up according to MMR and not give a shit about winrate
@@MrSeba3936 It's an MMR system based on winrate... we watched the same video right?
@@rekjaboi No its not
@@MrSeba3936 oh hey good rebuttle.
@@rekjaboi Thanks ;)
I explained my claim with the same detail, as you did when you just claimed it was based on winrate. But why go in-depth when it seems like you didn't really read my last comment.
Yes winrate does effect your mmr and lp gains. But this DOES NOT mean, that if your enemy team all has 60% winrate, it should match you with teammates that also have 60% winrate. That is absurd. Which is what I reacted to in your comment.
The system should only care about the mmr of an account when it matches games, which is good. Hence, crying about 40% winrate teammates against 60% winrate enemies is just weird.
you forgot the part where the poro hits emerald and then braum jumps down to gold at the same time
Cool video, now explain why I still have -17/+13 even though I've been having a 75% winrate for the past 3 weeks
System's f***ed. The video even confirms it. You climb until a certain point, from there you won't climb unless you win way more than you lose. And your MMR will never accomodate that.
Because your LP is way ahead of your MMR. If you win, your poro can only jump a little bit and barely drags braum up. If you lose, your poro gets pulled back a lot.
Idk how you ask this question when the video is literally explaining this with an easy visual.
@@XoXFaby then how do i fix that
@@yaykadam6618 Keep winning consistently. If you actually keep up a good winrate for a long time, then your MMR will catch up. If you don't, and you win 50% of the time, your LP will go down to match your MMR, as it should.
the more i win with my premade, the less lp i get and the more lp i lose. since my winrate went from 49 to 85%, with the same premade, my lps gains went from +21 to +13 in 2 months, and losses from -14 to -17. basically we were punished for carrying and getting better. so i made a smurf, since now my main account was ruined since the end of november to january, where i hope my mmr gets fixed. i remember you all, and rito, that the only thing preventing from dropping this game is playing with friends you are comfortable with. still, penalizing ppl for carrying is your main money loss strategy since last year
I feel like this was an honest representation, and was expecting old titan man to pull him down harder when he lost "above" his MMR, but that never happened. It feels like riot don't want people to know that playing higher than your mmr hurts your rank.
Just remember that every little climb or bump was a single game. That's about an hour played each time. And that was for only one season so multiply that by how many seasons on average someone plays. And then add ARAM and normal games too. Ooof.
League of legends is not free to play.You pay with your soul.
This is why you shouldn't play any of riot's games. waste of time... waste of life... There are millions of games you can enjoy in the virtual world. If your MMR and Rank are equal then let it go. don't hurt yourself anymore! Just watch until 0:38 of the video. If you keep playing, the future will put you in situations you don't deserve.
The poro warcry got me lol.
So fierce yet so cute.
Well done riot, amazing way to force people to make new accs
why
@@cazexaz5206 to get lvl30 because "new" ranked accs get massive +/- lp boost.
playing with fucked up mmr is frustating as fuck@@cazexaz5206
@@cazexaz5206higher amount of accounts signed means more popular
and buy skins
Noted, you climb faster when flaming.
So you guys just confirmed that this system is broken
So, your MMR barely moves unless you hit a huge spree?
Correct! Note that it goes both ways (win and lose sprees)
Supposedly, although I had a 15-game streak and my LP gains still didn't improve. The only thing that "fixed it" was duo'ing with people higher MMR than me.
@@Varza
you're still getting the same LP but you're on a different rank now..
lets say if u win the same ammount of games but u dodge (loose LP without loosing mmr)
u will gain more LP than u used to
Specifically a MASSIVE streak., lookling at a good 15 games in either direction. Then it STARTS to move and not by much
@@xaldinxiii9414 So basically something that won't ever happen to 99% of players.
Yea sure, loosing more LP than winning with 73% winrate is fun apperently according to riot. You kinda didnt mention the system that wants to keep you down as much as possible to make you play more and more games, so the board can see nice excel spreadsheet about how people are playing a lot every season...
this is not how it feels. it just feels like i rank up and suddenly im winning 10 and losing 20
Had a game in ranked where my adc was silver 1 and the enemy team had 3 plat players. One of them was plat 1. We lost so hard bc of that matchmaking.
"We try to have every game be as close as 50% chances for both sides" my ass, I don't mind waiting 2 more minutes if it means not playing with some ridiculous gaps like that
From the animation it's quite literally telling me my MMR will stop mid way through the moment my LP is catching up 0:55 and that if I lose my MMR will go down too out of spite and hatred
What are you even talking about?
Gotta carry the team and your MMR
When I was silver, I got silver teamates and silver enemies. When I was gold, I got silver teamates and gold enemies. Now I am platinum and I get bronze teamates and gold enemies. It makes total sense! This is a fun game to play.
I get to gold 1&2 and still get bronze and iron team mates, while riot assures me there can't be more than a "two division gap" e.g. bronze being the lowest for gold, and emerald being the highest i could get queued with. But I'm still getting iron 1 adc's and getting that sweet +16 and -34!
im bronze, my teammates are silver and enemies are platinum. what a joke
Ye so basically if your MMR isn't higher than your rank, go next account, wp riot
You forgot to show "smurf queue" - that is the moment when I am doing well and achieving a 60% win ratio. Then, suddenly, I wait for the match for about 10 minutes and the system selects only 30 level boted accounts (which is a real lottery, be it a smurf or a toxic banned player). As a result, I get a series of failures and I go back to square one. I would like to add that I have been using the account since the 3rd season. What is this protection against smurfs? Before this was introduced, I ran into them a lot less.
Except my MMR is a first-timer on AP bard who refuses to auto-attack
I have an idea. What about just having the rank you have and deserve instead of some other rank that you don't deserve, so you don't match against much higher ranks than the rank that you have but don't deserve.
Const +20/-20 and matchmaking with 3 tiers of division, so that you can fight being Gold II with Gold IV or Plat V. These MMRs are some BS complicating simple things.
whole ranked system revolves around buying new accounts and switching once the "MMR" gets bad, every big streamer does it and has multiple LPP accounts they can switch back and forth from. but somehow the ranked system just gets worse. Demotion shields will absolutely destroy your mmr, and you don't get rewarded enough for actually winning. netting a fat +16 and -34 on my gold account
it is not working as the video mentioned, i am wining 60% and on iron, and it still give m-34 and +25 over 1000s games, and even with new season start, it never changes, i believe there is a coding bug, please somebody do a code review thanks.
I don't get it because the video never explained what MMR, LP and Rank is
MMR is skill whereas lp is the league points you gain for winning
win = +18/19 LP lose = -31LP :D
I have a lose streak of 30 and still getting faced with people with triple my level
level doesn’t mean shit???
Then your just really bad? What? I don't understand your comment
@@capri_sunnn7935 There's people that don't realize level equals time spent playing and doesn't exactly equal skill at playing.
Thank you Riot. I have a 75 winrate and lose 16 LP and gain 13. really great system, works amazing! PRANKED ya! Its fucking trash, worst ranking experience I've had in any game. but hey, I'm sure it somehow makes you money. But I'll just buy 5 accounts so I can climb like all challenger players, cause that's not TOS! I mean, your top players/streamers do it!
Just be good.
actually riot gives entire fleets of unlockled all lv 30 accounts to stremers to compete each other, it happened here in italy a month ago, and the winner was a guy who played 170 games of lux support from scratch to challenger
so 75% winrate is nice but is it on 10 games or on 500 ? Like your comment make 0 sense. Your MMR needs time to adjust
grinding with your precious life time@@MJ-vt6ks
Delulu story, delulu player. Get better, ape
As cute as this cinematic is, it's absolutely not informative.
Which is terrible, since MMR and LP gains are super misunderstood.
Very true
By the way, you can dodge at 0 points so that the MMR is at your margin, about 3 times is enough.
What does this even mean?
@@MrSeba3936 you can cheat the system and increase your mmr that way. dodging does not decrease your mmr
@@forgedwithsteel What? That does not increase your mmr? The only thing it does is make a larger difference between your lp and your mmr? Sure, your mmr increases relative to your lp, because you lose lp and not mmr, but what does that even do for you??? You will still get matched against the same people, and you will still get the same mmr gains, meaning your mmr will climb the same. How is this cheating the system?
I really hope they fix that +13/-17 with a winning record BS. It is very discouraging since it makes your improvement worth less than it should...
Not accurate at all.
At 1:13 those lost games would have brought me 100 meters down that montain
Ah, that explains everything.
This video is a very cool representation of the system, but the reality is that if the poro starts to go up fast, each victory is a VERY short jump and each loss is a HUGE step down, and Braun hardly moves.
That was the greatest explanation of how MMR and LP works! :D
Thanks Rito!
I understand the system, when it realizes that you are on a game winning streak and your league points and mmr are equal, it stops you by making you place in the same team with idiots in the next games.
The problem is that LP is based on victory or lose not in how well you played.
you can only measure how well you played by your victories and losses.
@@angryyordle4640 No? LOL Stats exists. Thats simply not true.
@@DROLOCORP the goal of playing league of legends is not to end up with the most kills or the most damage, it is to destroy the enemy nexus. Therefore whoever is most successful at doing that, is the best player. That includes a high number of skills that have nothing to do with stats, including good macro play, a good mental and good communication with your team, just as well as being unpredictable and adjusting to the meta.
So you think TheBuaffs should never be able to climb?
@@DROLOCORP doesn't matter, the last thing you want is people playing for k/d. The game would be so much worse.
Well at least they know how painful climbing is but it is a shame the don't show us the yasou mains and the troll junglers and bot Lane going 0/11 but hey thanks rito fix your shit
Lmao shit aint broken if your MMR is similar to a 0/11 yasuo main then you belong there
@@potrillo8748 when I always win my lane yes it is broken and it is annoying only way anyone one getting out is but boosting
I understand. To win games we need to play with braum, i know it.
But hear me out, why need both? Just give mmr only and have mmr show instead of lp, what is the point?
Or just set a fixed win/lose LP each game... No need for hidden MMR anymore.
Hidden MMR gives a more smooth transition and makes more sense for the average player. So you dont get weird jumps
@@MrSeba3936 It doesn't make sense for it to be hidden even if both are present
@@thorbjrnbeckmann1018 Why not? The reason is what I just gave you? It is easier for the average player to understand
@@MrSeba3936 Why does rank matter if your rank is average? And why not just show MMR when you used to be able to and a bunch of people are asking for it to be showed?
MMR is why lol is so toxic, rework MMR and rewards good players not only win matches.
It doesn't feel rewarding when you play and do your best but you lost because your jg and top fed and you're punished for that...
No it doesnt? But what is the alternative?
Funny video, but this is exactly the problem of the game. Mmr should be based in continuous hours invested in the game mixed with the stats of the own player along that time. Nothing more, nothing less.
What are you even talking about? Making an elo system that takes into account KDA? Or what are you talking about? Cuz that would be really bad
Basically in a nutshell they fucked up badly
Hello Riot, I need the chaos vandal, i wait for 1 year. I really need this vandal. I become phisiche problems. Wenn you read this i want to become chaos vandal in my shop pls. I love valorant i hope to see chaos vandal in my shop soon. If you want my money you only need to put the vandel in my shop.
thats why ppl do fresh lvl 30 accounts with fresh mmr wjhile im trying to climb with 60% win rate and i get +15 and -29
i fall down more than i climb with more champion knowledge.
ok now explain to me how to climb a braum up a mountain
If you win those games where the enemy team is ranks above thats major key its like a hidden promo match
if only this video was true but its just a lie. winning 5 games then losing one game is like winning one game loosing 10 GG !
if u want to climb you have to win let's say 8 out of you 10 games. it's a little bit frustrating but eventually you will get the rank that you deserve or just make another account if you are that confident that you deserve to be higher elo
Allow us to see MMR or give devs API access to it for better data!
System works great as long as you don't keep encountering smurfs like every other youtuber/streamer that's in master+ creates for low-elo content. Riot does nothing about it, and it's been getting a lot worse. You end up finding about half your games there's a smurf on either side. It's not rewarding in either case. I don't feel good about a win when there's a smurf on my team and it sure as hell feels crappy when you lose to one.
Its only like that because your skill level, once you're on a fresh account it depends on how well you did in those games. So once you see a 'smurf' you'll never see them again.
What do you mean with "Riot does nothing about it"? They have literally implemented smurf que
@@BlahajGoesNom That's not certain.They only lose with certain champions while they win with others just to stay, down for big penis.
Delulu story, delulu player. Git gud
Main prooblem with this system is that both mmr and PL are dependant of your team performance, so unless your smurfing and winning 1 vs 9 your gonna get stuck around your set mmr, almost imposible to get more than small progress there 8 and still very matchmaking dependant) . Main reason ppl smurfing and they dont want smurf, ez FIX THE SYSTEM TO GIVE MMR BASED ON PERFORMANCE AND NOT WINS/LOSE
How would a MMR system based on performance look like? Do you think thebuasff should gain less lp every game, just because his play style gives him a low KDA? Wouldn't this new system make everyone into a KDA player?
what the actual fuck does that even mean. I unfortunately had a below 50% winrate at the beginning of my ranked games (probably the first 30 games, I was duoqing with the wrong friend) and my LP gain was literally +15 -17. Then from 43% winrate I could finally fix it and went to 53%. Then I went on a fucking 20 winstreak and straightforward jumped from p4 to p2 90 lps and I was literally STILL gaining +15 -17. Fuck riot games, your game is shit and I can't stop playing it.
facts
@@noelberhane6166 gotta hire zeno to kill some of the development team
@@michelepellegrino6640 😹😹yeah
You do realise that 15 lp is the new average after promos being removed, right? And what does winrate have to do with anything?
@@MrSeba3936 the problem I was arguing about was that the lp gain wouldn't change even after a massive win streak. It's secondary to that it being the average lp gain, which is anyway undoubtedly low even if they removed the promos because the lp lost were too high resulting in an unnecessarily difficult climb.
2) Winrate is the most influent factor on mmr lol what's up with that second question
show mmr then.
Based comment right here....
Srssly if your whole system relies on MMR you just should show it so people understand, but nah they hid it and confused the fuck outta everyone.
@@Jotolink Its harder for the average person to understand seemingly random jumps in MRR. LP is easier to understand for the average player
@@MrSeba3936 You clearly work for Riot...go away
My rank is plat 4 and i play with gold 3's. Accurate.
mmr is so fuucked up riot can not explain it with words...
so im with 65% winrate and +17 -30 lol
I actually expected some explanation, and there isn't any, apart from visual cues that lp gain is bigger than mmr gain. Come on. It doesn't feel like that. You owe some explaining riot
Say how do I make braum be above poro?
What does the broken cup mean? 01:21
Hello!
I have a question why you can complain about anything but technical support?(Wild Rift )
Thank you for giving me Gold MMR as a climbing Bronze ADC, you did such a good job
This season, Silver Medal 4, points +29 in one game, promotion to Gold Medal 4, points +26 in one game, promotion to Platinum, +24 points in one game, promotion to Emerald, +19 in one game Promoted to Emerald Zone 3: +15 in one game and -30 in defeat The more you win, the less you add. Win 16 games in a row.
ahh yes this explains why i get bronze and iron teammates(literally) when playing in gold 2 promos
iron teammates in a soloQ game while ur gold? how is that possible
No it doesnt? How does it do that?
@@MrSeba3936 welcome to the joke
This doesn't happen if your gold in solo q you don't get matched vs irons in solo q.
now
i have more questions
i literally won 20 games in a row and i started to gain 17 pl to 16 pl :/. Riot, what do you have to say?
What is the problem with this? 15 lp is the average, since the removal of promos. What do you think you should be getting?
Same here, I think MMR get higher slower than leagues,I think thats the reason, and this is the reason this system is not working
@@MrSeba3936 promos were way easier than winning 8 games in a row to promote a single division
@@srmah How are you even correlating winning 8 games and winning a promos?
So in the first instance you look at how many games you need to win to promote from 0lp.
And in the second instance you look at how many games you need to win when you are at 100lp and in promos.
How can you even compare this?
At least start from the same stand point, which is 0lp. In that case it takes 7 games no matter what the system is?
Very nice video I never understood until now!
the analogy of this is wrong coz in this example braum should be at the bottom of the mountain after 3 loses coz that how this system "works" imagine if mmr system would be fair mb we would have less smurfs and boosting and less bought accounts but i guess riot that said in season 3 that "mmr is not working as it should" will do nothing about it and say basically "get good lol" or "or brake our tos coz we dont care about game quality we care about money"
What poro dodging LP losses with shield is supposed to mean?
Basically what the video doesn't show is how bad the system really works. So Since the start of the season I was always between 55% to 58% WR on my account - now I'm at 54% with 75W - 65L
I am gaining 14LP per win and 15LP per Loss which If I'm looking to invest my time in the game and play to climb the ladder and one day I will be satisfied with my result the game doesn't let me because in low elo it's always a coinflip if you win or not * Eg. Smurfs , Braindeads , Trolls * also another thing that pisses me off is while I'm playing with 55-58% WR I get matched with people whose unranked and still doing provisionals *if a guy gets lucky and get carried early on his wr will be boosted* and then there's the matches where I'm matched with people whos WR is below 45%
I don't think the way it works makes sense with all these overlay Apps we have nowadays one can easy track his progression regards farming - ganks - deaths and so on if Riot creates a system where it tracks all this and matches you with equal players as you it would make more sense and from a background of competitive gaming , I have played Wow for years and reached gladiator, Arena works quite the same but with the difference that Winning is more rewarding then loosing is punishable and even if you go 1W - 1L you're still progressing slightly unlike League.
Please Riot fix these issues and let us Gamers once again enjoy this game !
You clearly have a very poor understanding of how a elo system should work. A perfect elo system does not care about your winrate. Winrate is only an indicator of relative skill, ie if ur better or worse than your CURRENT elo. Your MMR is a better indicator of how good you are right now. Obviously mmr only shows you, your true skill level when you have 50% winrate, otherwise you can try to estimate with a combination of mmr and winrate.
So in other words the system should ALWAYS match up according to MMR and not give a shit about winrate
@@MrSeba3936 tell me more about elo system then. Now im at 56% wr with 91wins 71L and gaining 14lp while loosing 16lp
How should 1 improve it ?
Because imo it doesnt make any sense
@@Jonmiller-M54x36 You should just play more? That is it? What do you expect the solution to be
@@MrSeba3936 Solved the problem :P
Changed the game
@Jonathan Camilleri Depends on what you mean by solving the problem.
If you don't like the fact that Leauge is grind-heavy, then yeah playing more is not a good solution. This is perfectly valid and I can relate. I would actually agree with you as a player, that this sucks. But I think maybe it is in Riot's business intentions to keep it this way. But yes, that can be frustrating and I agree.
If you're simply asking how to fix your issue with getting VERY slightly less lp per win than you lose, then yes, just playing more helps.
But yes swapping game, is also a fix
show mmr
how bad if i get the opposite? the more i win with my premade, the less lp i get and the more lp i lose. since my winrate went from 49 to 85%, with the same premade, my lps gains went from +21 to +13 in 2 months, and losses from -14 to -17. basically we were punished for carrying and getting better. so i made a smurf, since now my main account was ruined since the end of november to january, where i hope my mmr gets fixed. i remember you all, and rito, that the only thing preventing from dropping this game is playing with friends you are comfortable with. still, penalizing ppl for carrying is your main money loss strategy since last year.
Riot, can you please help yourself and make so you can't level up you account past lvl 10 playing against bots (reduce bots grinding accounts) and also make sure an account verification is required to play ranked?
1:00 When you pay elo boost.
And how does this explain that at 65% wr after 50+ games can I get +14 and -30 LP in elo that is 3 division lower than my last seasons peek? (D2 and E1)
You forgot the losestreak every 3 games :)
Unbalanced game, rigged system to obligate you to play more games, unistall this do yourself a favor
Hysterical that I’ll go 6-3 and end up with the same LP.. makes no sense don’t care what you say.
That had no business being as entertaining as it was.
MORE FLAME MORE RAGE = MORE +LP
i have same problem as others players, i do +18 -28 in G3 with 65% WR ...
1:10 never happens
CS2 BETTER THAN VALONRAT
People, you seriously can't watch the video ? Do you get less lp when you fall above your mmr, and get more when you fall below your mmr. -30 +15 ? Are you very much above your mmr. +30 -15 ? You are much lower than your mmr. And why does everyone consider mmr only as something bad that does not allow raising the rank? Mmr also does not let you fall in the ass just from a random series of defeats
naah i literally carryed 11 games and i got 11 win with no lose my lp was still same my not even +1 more lp after that i just lose 1 game and i got -17 i was usually getting -14 lp
Poro had a winning streak from S4 to G4. Your 11 victories are not so much against the background of his victories
@@ДаниилС-з5в but you know in main elo having 11 win sterak is not much easy i mean i carried all games
where’s the part where I lose 29lp and gain 14 lp despite a 60% winrate
This video skips when the mmr is ''behind'' you.
they think this is a funny video, this actually hell
I would just like to know how someone is doing 47% win rate gold 1, i 60% win rate (low LP for win) gold 1
.I'd like this to know
If they were plat last season and are now gold, they have a negative winrate. You prob have a new account and then ofc you have a positive winrate
So MMR is like an immovable rock that dictates your actual rank before you are that rank. How does league calculate mmr exactly? Is it solely on wins vs losses? Cuz I find that hard to believe..
My braum afk in silver i am emerald wdid, did the rope cut ?
THIS IS PERFECT!