The amount of recency bias here is crazy. Jokic in the playoffs averaged 27-13-9 on 63%TS. He was the primary reason Denver was able to get back into the series and nearly beat the Wolves after being down 2-0. The reason they lost was because at critical moments of the series either Murray, MPJ, or Gordon didn’t show up and make the high impact plays they needed to in order to beat the Wolves when they double teamed him at every turn. For the vast majority of the playoffs Luka has not been good at all and has really only turned it up in the last five games where he’s looked like Luka. The Mavericks were able to survive Luka’s bad play because of Kyrie and the rest of the supporting cast stepping up and making big plays at big moments. To say that Luka (who is amazing) clears Jokic despite everything Jokic has done individually the last 4 years is extremely disrespectful and shows why basketball discourse is so toxic and unserious.
Luka didn’t play up to standards because of injuries, he was still the best player on the team in almost all the games. Even when his shot wasn’t hitting his ATG playmaking created a ton of wide open shots that helped them win the games. Luka the last 5 games has been cooking though.
@@teal2913that doesn’t take away from anything I have said Luka has only been great the past five games the majority of the playoffs he mediocre to actively not good
All I hear is a bunch of recency bias😂 I swear players can never just be appreciated it’s always “he didn’t do this or he didn’t do that” yall are just a cheaper version of first take
If we are talking currently, then this is a conversation. However, if we are talking "All Time"; Jokic CLEARS. So far the most significant individual awards Luka has are five 1st team all nbas, and one scoring title. Jokic has 3 MVPs, 1 ring, and 1 FMVP. If Luka can win it all this year, it can become somewhat of a conversation, but Luka will still need to either get a 2nd ring, or win some MVPs to "clear" Jokic all time.
Jokic creates offense without even passing the ball better than anyone. They don’t guard the screens honestly. Luka is great but he’s not as good. I’m a Boston fan and I’d rather see Dallas than Denver, matchups matter. The mavs are capable of beating the c’s too tho
Luka problem was that he was his usage rate and lack of defense. Jokic problem is that he can’t put the whole team on his back and lack of defense. Luka usage rate went down and he improved a lot on defense. While Jokic was the best player since 2020, I do think that Luka is better now.
His usage went down by one percentage stop. 37% to 36% Luka has always been a championship #1, he’s just never had a good supporting cast. His only rim protector for years being Dwight Powell. It’s all winning bias. And no, Jokic’s problem is that he becomes complacent and for stretches of games isn’t aggressive as a scorer when his team needs him to be. And He provides very little rim protection.
Luka literally has more help. His defense is okay vs mid players. And he doesnt have to put the team on his back. Jokic has more issues and a lack of depth with his roster. Give him the same roster as Jokic and see far he gets.
@@pemp9606'' and for stretches of games isn’t aggressive as a scorer when his team needs him to be.'' In other words, can't put the team on his back ''He provides very little rim protection.'' In other words: defense.
@@2cents250 We're are not going to do this when for the whole season the starting lineup looked unbeatable. Jokic went 2/10 from 3 in a game 7 AND nobody outside of him and Murray could score. Yes the rest of the team is to be blamed. ALSO, in those situations, the leader has to step up. If you still want to have Jokic has #1 in the world, that's fine but let's not act like Luka improvements do not give him a case too.
@@pemp9606 Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Wolves had focused ALL their attention on Jokic cause Murray was a non factor. Thats the main difference. Kyrie has arguably been just as good as Luka this series, and has been the better player the entire playoff run even til now.
@@calincoza7490 Ok, but Jamal was hurt all playoffs and if he wasn't then the Nuggets advance and are beating the Mavs because Jokic is going to feast on lively/gafford. AG is as good of a defender for Luka, KCP is as good a defender for Kyrie.
@@MJisGoat797 Lmao feast on lively and gafford? Nah fam, he'd have the same problem he had vs the wolves because they'll be fresh. They might not have the defense as Rudy but the Mavs, you know the team with the most lobs, is gonna feast on zero rim protection a la Gafford and Lively. Dallas is an even better matchup against the Nuggets than the Wolves.
@@tommydashed4205 Nah fam. Wolves had Gobert/KAT/Naz and 2 of them on the court at the same time then the other fresh while ALL weigh more than 230lbers Gafford/Lively. You think Gafford/Livley gonna be on the court at the same time vs Nuggets too? lol
Minnesota has played great defense this playoffs but when the guy on this video say Minnesota "an all time defense" why does everyone have to keep doing that every time someone plays great?! Why does everything have to be called all time great now.
Nah this dude is delusional lol. Jokic had damn near 10% higher true shooting. Then you go and lie and say Jokic missing open shots? Wtf is that fool on
Luka Doncic is NOT better than Nikola Jokic. Reasons why Jokic is better than Luka 1) Jokic is a better scorer efficiency wise against better playoff defenses 2) A better shooter most of the time (though he shot badly from 3 this postseason) 3) A better rebounder 4) Better playmaker (Luka is more artful passer but Jokic's is better at involving teammates, being unpredictable, allowing others to get in rhythm) 5) Less turnover prone 6) Better post player (Luka is the best perimeter post player but not the best overall) 7)Better leader (how he behaves with refs, his ability to always be in shape and sacrifice usage for team involvement) 8) Better floor raiser/ carrying bad teams (Luka missed the playoffs in his prime while Jokic always carries injured rosters high in the standings) 9) better off ball player 10) easier to play with/ less fit issues Luka is a better ball handler and volume scorer for sure. I think that people forget that jokic has had worse help in his prime (2021-2024) than Luka did. Luka had Porzingis, Jalen Brunson, Kyrie Irving. Jokic had Murray who has been injured 3 of the last four seasons. This postseason Luka averages 28ppg /9.5 reb /9 ast / 2 stocks/ 4 Tov (43%/33%/80% shooting splits) Jokic last year averaged 30ppg/13.5 reb/ 9.5 ast/ 2 stocks/ 3.5 tov (54%/45%/80% shooting splits) There are levels to this .....
Jokic has one AMAZING game the entire playoffs and it makes up for the ok/mid performances??? Nah Jokic isnt some juggernaut my guy. He’s at Giannis/Luka levels
@@pemp9606 he had multiple masterclasses and one all time performance. How many bad games did Luka have? And this notion that Luka is doing something that Jokic is could not is so stupid. Wolves were designed to be Jokic's antidote and he still averaged 29/11/8 on 60% TS. Its about matchups sometimes
People seem to forget that it’s a team sport. Let’s also not forget that Luka needed a whole roster reconstruction to win. mid season and it also helps when your role-plays show up consistently unlike Nikola
There’s two sides. Theres the side of people that will discredit Jokic as an alltime great, overreacting. Then there are those who try their hardest to shift every ounce of blame away from Jokic. Yes he still played great, but he’s not this “best offensive player ever, best player since prime LeBron” type player like some of yall will try and push
In terms of offense he literally is the best offensive player since prime Lebron and all the numbers bare that out. He’s not better than LeBron though because while he’s not a terrible defender he isn’t gonna give you consistent two-way impact like LeBron did in 2013. The only player who might reach those heights in the current era is Wemby when he matures
Luka wasn’t the best player in the 1st round or the 2nd round but NOW he’s the BITW?! round 1 you can argue Kyrie and harden were better, round 2 shai CLEARED Since when does that happen to players we call the best in the world?
i come back to the channel and dub on bs wtf are we talking about right now like this shouldn’t be an argument your talking about LITERALLY NOTHING tf are we talking about open looks for if they missed they missed like cmon this just sound like yall tryna find something to hate about
Joker has to 3v1 other bigs w a mid roster. Luka is goat for doing this injured but he's still got better help than 🃏. Murray isn't kyrie period. Kyrie clears curry
The issue with Jokic stans is that they've adopted this narrative that he's leaps and bounds better than everybody else in the league, which was never the case. So when that narrative gets challenged it's looked at as sacrilegious. Now we have to backtrack on that. Jokic isn't as dominant as Giannis who has more All NBA/All Defense/All star appearances, and lead his team to the best record in the league multiple times, something Jokic has never done. Now Luka is on the verge of sweeping the Wolves, a team that Jokic went life and death with. Jokic is top 3 to me, but definitely not the definitive #1.
Jayson Tatum/Devin Booker/Donovan Mitchell/James Harden have all led their team to the best record. How many times did Giannis win the chip with the best record? All this tells me is that Giannis with stacked rosters the MAJORITY of his prime chokes in the playoffs. Giannis was the REASON they lost game 5 to the Heat last year. The same narrative you think people are giving Jokic about being leagues above everyone is very similar to Giannis and his OVERRATED AF defense. He's living off his 19-20 DPOY season which he shouldn't even have won DPOY to begin with..and hes regressed considerably from that time to now.
@@Kizamusic Because its signifies dominance that's why, which is important in the context of discussing the heirarchy of great players. 3X MVPS have all led their team to the best record in the league (MJ/Bird/Magic/Lebron/ etc).
@@MJisGoat797 Grouping Giannis in with players who have never won anything and/or even made an All NBA first team is disingenuous. None of those players are on Giannis' level. Secondly, I notice you specifically noted game 5 last year when he had 44/20 and that was only the second game he played in the whole series while injured. Also can you elaborate how his rosters were stacked?
@@Chessbox09 1.) Tatum/Booker/Harden ALL have made 1st team all nba, Harden has been 1st team SIX times which is the SAME amount as Giannis. Mitchell made 2nd team. So lets not act like hes a bum 2.) Prime Harden was BETTER than Giannis. Giannis actually stole b2b MVP from Harden (but ignore this cause this is a different convo). ONLY reason Harden doesn't have a ring is because he went against the most stacked team of all time where his prime coincided with the KD Warriors. While Giannis' ONLY ring happened because Kyrie/Harden were injured and it still required all 7 games AND OT to send a KD and no one else Nets team home. If they weren't injured, Giannis is ringless. 3.) He had 38/20...BUT he was 13/24 from the line missing FOUR free throws in clutch time. They were STILL UP by 1 with SIX SECONDS left and RECEIVED the jump ball. Giannis damn near chucked it out of bounds and Khris saved him from being the ever worse of a punchline of the NBA. Then in OT GIANNIS fouled Strus with 20 seconds left at the 3pt line. HE lost them that game. 4.) You say he was injured....but do you also put an asterisk on his ring for Kyrie/Harden being injured too? Clearly you don't if you say we can't compare him to those who haven't won anything. So keep that same energy. 5.) Giannis has had: Khris - All star Jrue - All star/All defense Brook - All defense/Top 2 DPOY candidate Portis - Top 2 6MOTY candidate Grayson Allen - great role player & 3pt sniper Donte Divincenzo - great role player Giannis has had so much talent on his teams throughout the years and all but ONE of these players were on the team at the SAME TIME during his finals run.
Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Wolves had focused ALL their attention on Jokic cause Murray was a non factor. Kyrie has arguably been just as good as Luka this series, and has been the better player the entire playoff run til now. Dub's name is oxymoronic. Big L as is typical from 'Dub'.
Bro, stop it. Jokic was literally cooking, they were triple teaming him, and jamal was a no show almost the whole series, MPJ forgot how to shoot, Luka is alongside Kyrie that is literally cooking. It's a game of matchups, Minnesotta was the worst matchup for denver.
Luka is not clear of Jokic and vice versa but we're in an era of parity in the NBA where I think we shouldn't be mad at someone if they think Jokic, Giannis or Luka have the title as the best player in the world. Every player has their weaknesses and strengths.
He clears lol bigs don’t effect him it does jokic cuz he can’t score efficient against team with 3 bigs lol he can abuse Austin reaves dlo Beal 💀 peopel he 7 inch more taller then pmao
Joker literally has more accomplishments. Statistically regular season and postseason than Luca. And I believe Luca is going to be top 10 player ever. But Lord these undercover joker haters are coming out to roost
@@christ-Revealed Not really. People have been calling Jokic the best player in the world for years, him and Giannis really. Him winning a ring last year only boosted his stock.
@@reduneyconceicao3420 Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Wolves had focused ALL their attention on Jokic cause Murray was a non factor. Kyrie has arguably been just as good as Luka this series, and has been the better player the entire playoff run til now.
@@isakmaaan0326 Kyrie + 60 vs clippers Luka + 38 Kyrie + 23 vs Thunder Luka + 9 Kyrie +23 vs Wolves Luka +3 Jokic -8 (through 7 games) vs Wolves Jamal Murray -46 Luka is benefitting A LOT more from Kyrie taking away attention more than Jokic benefitted from Murray taking away attention.
Why is dub not adding the fact that Murray and MPJ WERE TRASH ALL SERIES!!!!!Lively and Kyrie has been good this series when your second and third best player plays like horsecrap ofc the best play FG% and Trye shooting will be down cuz the defense is focused on you more cuz you have no help around you
Or maybe Dub, juuuust maybe, a wolves roster that was built to beat one team in Denver and Jokic who beat them in 7 games have come into a series exhausted on top of facing a red hot Dallas team who behind 2 elite guards are able to handle this wolves team's perimeter defense and abuse their bigs while having front court athleticism. It's matchup problem not a jokic better or worse than luka issue.
We thought ticket was gonna be the one ti come with this take. It turns out dub beat him to the punch 🤣 Keep doing a bad job dub! Someones gotta do it.
I'm a Jokic fan and even called him the best big man in the league before he won his first MVP. But Luka is the better player in my opinion. Not by much though. If I had to choose who I'd pay to see, it's probably Luka because he has the energy and he'll talk that shit to his victims on the court.
@@nicholaskatsikas4904 well, I watch both Nuggets and Mavs games and I know Jokic is an elite passer, but Luka is a legendary passer. Some of these passes don’t get shown in highlights because his teammates brick those potential assists. He’s a better scorer. He can score in all three levels in multiple ways. Stepback, catch and shoot, pull up, fadeaway, post up, his handles are elite. Luka can just do more than Jokic. Not to say that Luka has more impact than Jokic, but just more skill. Luka is the perfect size for any mismatch between a small guard and a center.
As a Mavericks fan, objectively, Luka and Jokic are equals. Both having pros and cons. It's just that Minnesota was a terrible matchup for the Nuggets because their strength matched up well against Nuggets strength, mainly the center position, which happened to be the Nuggets' source of offense. Dallas, on the other hand, their source of offense is through the backcourt, away from Minnesota strength with their frontcourt defense. Both Luka and Jokic are great. It's just that Minnesota was literally built to beat, specifically the Nuggets, which backfired now because Luka isn't always playing in the post like Jokic
The disrespect on Kyrie and the mavs role players is crazy......Luka isnt out there by himself like Dub is making it seem. Kyrie has been twice the player Jamal or MPJ was this playoffs.
jokic role players simply didn’t play well enough even jamal. If kai was going 4/18 they would have lost. If pj washington was giving you 4 points like mpj they would be losing
Hold on. With marz take about the 2022 celtics defense and steph..mthe dpoy was a guard that year in the celtics. Curry cooked a great defense AND the dpoy. They were great on the interior and on the perimeter defensively.
my point was ab the plan they went in with was not suited to stop steph curry scoring,so he inevitably went off. that doesnt mean hes a better scorer than when he went off against the toronto defense for example which was more geared towards stopping him. boston had great personnel but their defensive plan wasnt about stephs scoring
dont get your hopes up for the "dynasty" colapsing Duncan never won back to back rings. in 2004 coming off of back to back mvps blew a 2 - 0 lead against the corspe of the shaq and kobe lakers where he shot like 35% in the 4 games they lost. Tim is an all time great and the spurs are considered one of the best dynasties ever. Lebron and MJ really warped people's perspectives of all time greats
@@rxziy6822 Dynasty is multiple rings in a period of time. 2 rings in 3-4 years could be considered a dynasty. Duncan got his last ring at 37... MJ got his 1st ring at 28 the same age as Jokic..
@@rxziy6822 How did Duncan start his dynasty at 19 when he was 22 for his first ring? also the spurs had multiple deep playoff runs a chip and a final aperence after ducan turned 34 and even a 61 win season after he retired. Looks like your projecting calling me a casual
I mean, by definition they can't be more or less dynamic because they have the same output. The main problem is that Jokic isn't a rim protector and Denver doesn't have a true rim protector. Luka doesn't have to be a rim protector so it's easier for him to play good team defense.
@tommydashed4205 nooo, you don't get what I am saying, they can have the same output but timing matters. Eg in tight space situation a center tends to move like a king, with his back to the basket, limited dribbles and its easy to end his dribble when doubled which stalls the offense overall..anyways that is my point
@@christ-Revealed But centers are more efficient which means less wasted possessions, and jokic is inherently a much better defensive & offensive rebounder. I'll take the all around offensively elite 7ft 300lb player over the all around offensively elite 6'7 230lb player.
@MJisGoat797 I prefer the one that can play all round the semi circle, plays both back to basket and front, dribbles well, and keeps the dribble alive more.
@kidmelo1994 Game 7 in Denver, the entire Nuggets team (beside Jokic and Murray) only scored 21 points. Basically his point is, if Luka and Kyrie's teammates wet the bed like that, they would also lose.
The amount of recency bias here is crazy. Jokic in the playoffs averaged 27-13-9 on 63%TS. He was the primary reason Denver was able to get back into the series and nearly beat the Wolves after being down 2-0. The reason they lost was because at critical moments of the series either Murray, MPJ, or Gordon didn’t show up and make the high impact plays they needed to in order to beat the Wolves when they double teamed him at every turn. For the vast majority of the playoffs Luka has not been good at all and has really only turned it up in the last five games where he’s looked like Luka. The Mavericks were able to survive Luka’s bad play because of Kyrie and the rest of the supporting cast stepping up and making big plays at big moments. To say that Luka (who is amazing) clears Jokic despite everything Jokic has done individually the last 4 years is extremely disrespectful and shows why basketball discourse is so toxic and unserious.
29/13/9*
100% Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Dub's name is oxymoronic.
Luka didn’t play up to standards because of injuries, he was still the best player on the team in almost all the games. Even when his shot wasn’t hitting his ATG playmaking created a ton of wide open shots that helped them win the games. Luka the last 5 games has been cooking though.
Luka is doing this WITH AN INJURED KNEE hahahha he’s better bro
@@teal2913that doesn’t take away from anything I have said Luka has only been great the past five games the majority of the playoffs he mediocre to actively not good
Not to mention the 3 mvps lol
All I hear is a bunch of recency bias😂 I swear players can never just be appreciated it’s always “he didn’t do this or he didn’t do that” yall are just a cheaper version of first take
Facts. The show has went to ish lately. They used to be a very good show
Only from non players
@@akeemMagic01 never bring assumptions to the internet kiddo. Facts only
They just not bright bro they doesn’t make sense to me and it’s too many people talking
Joker still better
If we are talking currently, then this is a conversation. However, if we are talking "All Time"; Jokic CLEARS. So far the most significant individual awards Luka has are five 1st team all nbas, and one scoring title. Jokic has 3 MVPs, 1 ring, and 1 FMVP.
If Luka can win it all this year, it can become somewhat of a conversation, but Luka will still need to either get a 2nd ring, or win some MVPs to "clear" Jokic all time.
This show had gone downhill. They comparing a PG to a Center. Different roles, different team around them
Wolves ain’t no all time defense 😂😂😂
I'm like WHAT?! 😂
Jokic creates offense without even passing the ball better than anyone. They don’t guard the screens honestly. Luka is great but he’s not as good. I’m a Boston fan and I’d rather see Dallas than Denver, matchups matter. The mavs are capable of beating the c’s too tho
Luka problem was that he was his usage rate and lack of defense.
Jokic problem is that he can’t put the whole team on his back and lack of defense.
Luka usage rate went down and he improved a lot on defense. While Jokic was the best player since 2020, I do think that Luka is better now.
His usage went down by one percentage stop. 37% to 36%
Luka has always been a championship #1, he’s just never had a good supporting cast. His only rim protector for years being Dwight Powell. It’s all winning bias.
And no, Jokic’s problem is that he becomes complacent and for stretches of games isn’t aggressive as a scorer when his team needs him to be. And He provides very little rim protection.
Luka literally has more help. His defense is okay vs mid players. And he doesnt have to put the team on his back. Jokic has more issues and a lack of depth with his roster. Give him the same roster as Jokic and see far he gets.
@@pemp9606'' and for stretches of games isn’t aggressive as a scorer when his team needs him to be.''
In other words, can't put the team on his back
''He provides very little rim protection.''
In other words: defense.
@@2cents250 We're are not going to do this when for the whole season the starting lineup looked unbeatable. Jokic went 2/10 from 3 in a game 7 AND nobody outside of him and Murray could score. Yes the rest of the team is to be blamed. ALSO, in those situations, the leader has to step up. If you still want to have Jokic has #1 in the world, that's fine but let's not act like Luka improvements do not give him a case too.
@@pemp9606 Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Wolves had focused ALL their attention on Jokic cause Murray was a non factor. Thats the main difference.
Kyrie has arguably been just as good as Luka this series, and has been the better player the entire playoff run even til now.
Luka was outplayed by SGA in the last series. He does not clear Jokic.
he was hurt
OKC wing was on top of Luka
@@calincoza7490 Ok, but Jamal was hurt all playoffs and if he wasn't then the Nuggets advance and are beating the Mavs because Jokic is going to feast on lively/gafford. AG is as good of a defender for Luka, KCP is as good a defender for Kyrie.
@@MJisGoat797 Lmao feast on lively and gafford? Nah fam, he'd have the same problem he had vs the wolves because they'll be fresh. They might not have the defense as Rudy but the Mavs, you know the team with the most lobs, is gonna feast on zero rim protection a la Gafford and Lively. Dallas is an even better matchup against the Nuggets than the Wolves.
@@tommydashed4205 Nah fam. Wolves had Gobert/KAT/Naz and 2 of them on the court at the same time then the other fresh while ALL weigh more than 230lbers Gafford/Lively. You think Gafford/Livley gonna be on the court at the same time vs Nuggets too? lol
“He loves glazing that big man” AYOOO!!!!
I could hear out saying Luka is better than jokic after this playoff run but to act like he just clears easily is crazy 😂 it’s a conversation tho
Jokic is clearly the best in the world. His offense is parallel to none in the post season
Tier 1: Jokic
T2: Embiid, Giannis
T3: Tatum, SGA and Luka
I would argue that Giants is tier 1
*Giannis
Nah bro just be out here throwing out fake facts is crazy 😂
Smh. Recency bias at its worst. This sounds stupid. Luka Luka Luka Luka knob glazing. Not enough Credit to KYRIE. Jokic is better than Luka foh.
Minnesota has played great defense this playoffs but when the guy on this video say Minnesota "an all time defense" why does everyone have to keep doing that every time someone plays great?! Why does everything have to be called all time great now.
Nah this dude is delusional lol. Jokic had damn near 10% higher true shooting. Then you go and lie and say Jokic missing open shots? Wtf is that fool on
Luka Doncic is NOT better than Nikola Jokic.
Reasons why Jokic is better than Luka
1) Jokic is a better scorer efficiency wise against better playoff defenses
2) A better shooter most of the time (though he shot badly from 3 this postseason)
3) A better rebounder
4) Better playmaker (Luka is more artful passer but Jokic's is better at involving teammates, being unpredictable, allowing others to get in rhythm)
5) Less turnover prone
6) Better post player (Luka is the best perimeter post player but not the best overall)
7)Better leader (how he behaves with refs, his ability to always be in shape and sacrifice usage for team involvement)
8) Better floor raiser/ carrying bad teams (Luka missed the playoffs in his prime while Jokic always carries injured rosters high in the standings)
9) better off ball player
10) easier to play with/ less fit issues
Luka is a better ball handler and volume scorer for sure.
I think that people forget that jokic has had worse help in his prime (2021-2024) than Luka did. Luka had Porzingis, Jalen Brunson, Kyrie Irving.
Jokic had Murray who has been injured 3 of the last four seasons.
This postseason Luka averages
28ppg /9.5 reb /9 ast / 2 stocks/ 4 Tov (43%/33%/80% shooting splits)
Jokic last year averaged
30ppg/13.5 reb/ 9.5 ast/ 2 stocks/ 3.5 tov
(54%/45%/80% shooting splits)
There are levels to this .....
@@johnbarkley925 I agree
Lol imagine this conversation after game 5 of the Nuggets Wolves series. Recency bias is clear.
Luka is a 2nd bitw tho
Jokic has one AMAZING game the entire playoffs and it makes up for the ok/mid performances??? Nah Jokic isnt some juggernaut my guy. He’s at Giannis/Luka levels
Luka might be the best he dispatched of the wolves quickly
@@pemp9606 he had multiple masterclasses and one all time performance. How many bad games did Luka have?
And this notion that Luka is doing something that Jokic is could not is so stupid. Wolves were designed to be Jokic's antidote and he still averaged 29/11/8 on 60% TS.
Its about matchups sometimes
@@Big_talks. Diffferent matchups
@@DR-110 lmao but if you’re the best you’ll still deliver 😂 I mean it’s between those two for sure but I’m holding him to the standard he should be
FACTS jokic is not better than Luka
People seem to forget that it’s a team sport. Let’s also not forget that Luka needed a whole roster reconstruction to win. mid season and it also helps when your role-plays show up consistently unlike Nikola
can we at least admit the gap between jokic and luka isnt as big as y’all saying it was
Ticket was right domo a low budget low
Swipa is really him
Lets be honest Dallas and Minnesota have better Teams Player for Player in comparison with Denver. It's just Facts.
There’s two sides. Theres the side of people that will discredit Jokic as an alltime great, overreacting. Then there are those who try their hardest to shift every ounce of blame away from Jokic.
Yes he still played great, but he’s not this “best offensive player ever, best player since prime LeBron” type player like some of yall will try and push
In terms of offense he literally is the best offensive player since prime Lebron and all the numbers bare that out. He’s not better than LeBron though because while he’s not a terrible defender he isn’t gonna give you consistent two-way impact like LeBron did in 2013. The only player who might reach those heights in the current era is Wemby when he matures
They are really the same player one is in the most and one is on the perimeter.
this is why they say L DUB
All imma say is there’s a thing called matchups 🤦🏽♂️
They're both spectacular on offense and suck on defense
Guy in right corner on top should not speak on yup tube
No sense at all
Bro go to work for president Biden
Guy with glasses and beard
Buddy called 34 and 19 terrible
11:16 tf is Chill talking about bruh 🤣🤣 Luka generates open 3s in the half court all day. Does he not watch?
Luka wasn’t the best player in the 1st round or the 2nd round but NOW he’s the BITW?! round 1 you can argue Kyrie and harden were better, round 2 shai CLEARED
Since when does that happen to players we call the best in the world?
i come back to the channel and dub on bs wtf are we talking about right now like this shouldn’t be an argument your talking about LITERALLY NOTHING tf are we talking about open looks for if they missed they missed like cmon this just sound like yall tryna find something to hate about
L dub as usual
This was hilarious 😂
Joker has to 3v1 other bigs w a mid roster. Luka is goat for doing this injured but he's still got better help than 🃏. Murray isn't kyrie period. Kyrie clears curry
Who tf brought up curry
so are we saying rn that dallas beats the nuggets?
Hey Tub? How's Luka doing now? Burnt toast in the finals LOL. Where Jokic succeeded, on the biggest stage, Luka is FAILING AF
does he have a youtube page? i actually came here just for this
@@MichealWalou He does, but its got a low subscriber amount (cause hes trash) so I couldn't find it.
This the east exact reason the numbers are going down
This dude is just a Analytics clown he does not look at the game and thinks he has knowledge of the game. Kyrie is the biggest factor for the Mavs.
Doncic is better than Jokic
Lol you ppl are such a joke
The issue with Jokic stans is that they've adopted this narrative that he's leaps and bounds better than everybody else in the league, which was never the case. So when that narrative gets challenged it's looked at as sacrilegious. Now we have to backtrack on that. Jokic isn't as dominant as Giannis who has more All NBA/All Defense/All star appearances, and lead his team to the best record in the league multiple times, something Jokic has never done. Now Luka is on the verge of sweeping the Wolves, a team that Jokic went life and death with. Jokic is top 3 to me, but definitely not the definitive #1.
Who cares about leading a team to the best record in the league tho?
Jayson Tatum/Devin Booker/Donovan Mitchell/James Harden have all led their team to the best record. How many times did Giannis win the chip with the best record? All this tells me is that Giannis with stacked rosters the MAJORITY of his prime chokes in the playoffs. Giannis was the REASON they lost game 5 to the Heat last year.
The same narrative you think people are giving Jokic about being leagues above everyone is very similar to Giannis and his OVERRATED AF defense. He's living off his 19-20 DPOY season which he shouldn't even have won DPOY to begin with..and hes regressed considerably from that time to now.
@@Kizamusic Because its signifies dominance that's why, which is important in the context of discussing the heirarchy of great players. 3X MVPS have all led their team to the best record in the league (MJ/Bird/Magic/Lebron/ etc).
@@MJisGoat797 Grouping Giannis in with players who have never won anything and/or even made an All NBA first team is disingenuous. None of those players are on Giannis' level. Secondly, I notice you specifically noted game 5 last year when he had 44/20 and that was only the second game he played in the whole series while injured. Also can you elaborate how his rosters were stacked?
@@Chessbox09 1.) Tatum/Booker/Harden ALL have made 1st team all nba, Harden has been 1st team SIX times which is the SAME amount as Giannis. Mitchell made 2nd team. So lets not act like hes a bum
2.) Prime Harden was BETTER than Giannis. Giannis actually stole b2b MVP from Harden (but ignore this cause this is a different convo). ONLY reason Harden doesn't have a ring is because he went against the most stacked team of all time where his prime coincided with the KD Warriors. While Giannis' ONLY ring happened because Kyrie/Harden were injured and it still required all 7 games AND OT to send a KD and no one else Nets team home. If they weren't injured, Giannis is ringless.
3.) He had 38/20...BUT he was 13/24 from the line missing FOUR free throws in clutch time. They were STILL UP by 1 with SIX SECONDS left and RECEIVED the jump ball. Giannis damn near chucked it out of bounds and Khris saved him from being the ever worse of a punchline of the NBA. Then in OT GIANNIS fouled Strus with 20 seconds left at the 3pt line. HE lost them that game.
4.) You say he was injured....but do you also put an asterisk on his ring for Kyrie/Harden being injured too? Clearly you don't if you say we can't compare him to those who haven't won anything. So keep that same energy.
5.) Giannis has had:
Khris - All star
Jrue - All star/All defense
Brook - All defense/Top 2 DPOY candidate
Portis - Top 2 6MOTY candidate
Grayson Allen - great role player & 3pt sniper
Donte Divincenzo - great role player
Giannis has had so much talent on his teams throughout the years and all but ONE of these players were on the team at the SAME TIME during his finals run.
Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Wolves had focused ALL their attention on Jokic cause Murray was a non factor. Kyrie has arguably been just as good as Luka this series, and has been the better player the entire playoff run til now. Dub's name is oxymoronic. Big L as is typical from 'Dub'.
Bro, stop it. Jokic was literally cooking, they were triple teaming him, and jamal was a no show almost the whole series, MPJ forgot how to shoot, Luka is alongside Kyrie that is literally cooking. It's a game of matchups, Minnesotta was the worst matchup for denver.
Luka is not clear of Jokic and vice versa but we're in an era of parity in the NBA where I think we shouldn't be mad at someone if they think Jokic, Giannis or Luka have the title as the best player in the world. Every player has their weaknesses and strengths.
Don’t b a prisoner of the moment Jokic clears as of rn
He clears lol bigs don’t effect him it does jokic cuz he can’t score efficient against team with 3 bigs lol he can abuse Austin reaves dlo Beal 💀 peopel he 7 inch more taller then pmao
Can't have Giannis #1 when he's out of the playoffs 2 years in a row but he's top 3 for sure.
@@gorcsauce696jokic scored efficiently all series
*Parody 😅
Joker literally has more accomplishments. Statistically regular season and postseason than Luca. And I believe Luca is going to be top 10 player ever. But Lord these undercover joker haters are coming out to roost
It’s crazy how we turn on players. If Luka doesn’t win he’ll get slandered as well and it makes no sense.
As he should lol.
Basketball fans and media are Just 🐑
@@zbt62u are the toxic nba culture that I hate
Homie is a prime example of this microwave what have you done for me lately culture...
Big ox was right dub only talk sports cuz he found out he can get paid on RUclips 😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Prisoner of the moment, good lord.
Wasn't everybody doing the same thing for jokic last year
@@christ-Revealed Not really. People have been calling Jokic the best player in the world for years, him and Giannis really. Him winning a ring last year only boosted his stock.
@@xdarkxskullzxnot true at all, before he won his ring very few paille were really to call him the best player in the league
I think jokic is better but Lukas right there
NO sir jokic had murry to close the deal and now you can see when luka has a legit help
@@reduneyconceicao3420jokic had murray so what? what’s ur point?😅
@@reduneyconceicao3420 Kyrie is averaging 28/4/5 on 53/44 splits while Jamal averaged 18/4/4 on 40/31 splits. Wolves had focused ALL their attention on Jokic cause Murray was a non factor. Kyrie has arguably been just as good as Luka this series, and has been the better player the entire playoff run til now.
@@MJisGoat797no he hasn’t 😂😂 Kyrie was the best player in the clips series but after that Luka has clearly been the better player
@@isakmaaan0326
Kyrie + 60 vs clippers
Luka + 38
Kyrie + 23 vs Thunder
Luka + 9
Kyrie +23 vs Wolves
Luka +3
Jokic -8 (through 7 games) vs Wolves
Jamal Murray -46
Luka is benefitting A LOT more from Kyrie taking away attention more than Jokic benefitted from Murray taking away attention.
What??? Luka got a all star teammate
I’m truly appalled that they had this conversation and didn’t mention the fact kyrie is avg 27 pts on 52% 😂😂😂
Why is dub not adding the fact that Murray and MPJ WERE TRASH ALL SERIES!!!!!Lively and Kyrie has been good this series when your second and third best player plays like horsecrap ofc the best play FG% and Trye shooting will be down cuz the defense is focused on you more cuz you have no help around you
man if yall dont gtf out of here with this
Denver didn't shoot well period. Thats why they lost.
So when did Minnesota become an all-time defense??? Are they the 04 Pistons defense???
Jokic is just Luka if he was 50 pounds heavier & 5 inches taller
Wtf 😂
Luka fans has been waiting for this, and I'm all for it, Chip Skylark is HIM
Or maybe Dub, juuuust maybe, a wolves roster that was built to beat one team in Denver and Jokic who beat them in 7 games have come into a series exhausted on top of facing a red hot Dallas team who behind 2 elite guards are able to handle this wolves team's perimeter defense and abuse their bigs while having front court athleticism. It's matchup problem not a jokic better or worse than luka issue.
Dub be hanging around Ticket too much
Thought dub was better than this but I should've known tbh
DUB stays getting cooked. Prob plays as bad as he analysis
We thought ticket was gonna be the one ti come with this take. It turns out dub beat him to the punch 🤣
Keep doing a bad job dub! Someones gotta do it.
Dub really coming out with First Take Ticket narrative talk smh
Dub is onto nothing lmao
Dub - " WATCHU MEAN !? WATCHU MEAN " 🤣🤣🤣
I'm a Jokic fan and even called him the best big man in the league before he won his first MVP. But Luka is the better player in my opinion. Not by much though. If I had to choose who I'd pay to see, it's probably Luka because he has the energy and he'll talk that shit to his victims on the court.
What makes Luka better in your opinion
@@nicholaskatsikas4904 well, I watch both Nuggets and Mavs games and I know Jokic is an elite passer, but Luka is a legendary passer. Some of these passes don’t get shown in highlights because his teammates brick those potential assists. He’s a better scorer. He can score in all three levels in multiple ways. Stepback, catch and shoot, pull up, fadeaway, post up, his handles are elite. Luka can just do more than Jokic. Not to say that Luka has more impact than Jokic, but just more skill. Luka is the perfect size for any mismatch between a small guard and a center.
@@jjpark1989ur just another fool lmao wtf no wonder u got 0 likes lmao
Luka isn’t clear of Jokic.
Dub got cooked
As a Mavericks fan, objectively, Luka and Jokic are equals. Both having pros and cons.
It's just that Minnesota was a terrible matchup for the Nuggets because their strength matched up well against Nuggets strength, mainly the center position, which happened to be the Nuggets' source of offense.
Dallas, on the other hand, their source of offense is through the backcourt, away from Minnesota strength with their frontcourt defense.
Both Luka and Jokic are great. It's just that Minnesota was literally built to beat, specifically the Nuggets, which backfired now because Luka isn't always playing in the post like Jokic
The disrespect on Kyrie and the mavs role players is crazy......Luka isnt out there by himself like Dub is making it seem. Kyrie has been twice the player Jamal or MPJ was this playoffs.
jokic role players simply didn’t play well enough even jamal. If kai was going 4/18 they would have lost. If pj washington was giving you 4 points like mpj they would be losing
Dub still salty from last years finals
Luka has been playing WAYYY better defense than jokic all playoffs and all season
Put it like This ion care bout numbers neither one of them better be bron 😭😭😭😭
In a couple weeks dub is gonna slander Luka and praise Tatum
Gotta add an m and flip the last two letters for Dub.
Just in the moment bias
All of Jokic’s threes are damn near wide open and he shoots like 30% on them. THATS NOT RESPECTABLE
He's a centre
Kyrie cleared curry every matchup. Murray isn't even top ten guard
Curry cooks him also
Hold on. With marz take about the 2022 celtics defense and steph..mthe dpoy was a guard that year in the celtics. Curry cooked a great defense AND the dpoy. They were great on the interior and on the perimeter defensively.
my point was ab the plan they went in with was not suited to stop steph curry scoring,so he inevitably went off. that doesnt mean hes a better scorer than when he went off against the toronto defense for example which was more geared towards stopping him. boston had great personnel but their defensive plan wasnt about stephs scoring
@@MarzTalksSports
Fair enough.
But i do think 2022 was his best finals performance over 2019
@@canadadry4609 and i wouldnt argue
I love to see swiper get humbled after the Nuggets “ dynasty “ collapsed
its not humbled when dub is making a bad faith argument.
dont get your hopes up for the "dynasty" colapsing Duncan never won back to back rings. in 2004 coming off of back to back mvps blew a 2 - 0 lead against the corspe of the shaq and kobe lakers where he shot like 35% in the 4 games they lost. Tim is an all time great and the spurs are considered one of the best dynasties ever. Lebron and MJ really warped people's perspectives of all time greats
@@darwinsanchez4842 Duncan started his dynasty with Robinson at 19 and ended it at 34 , Joker is already almost 30 stop whaffling casual
@@rxziy6822 Dynasty is multiple rings in a period of time. 2 rings in 3-4 years could be considered a dynasty. Duncan got his last ring at 37...
MJ got his 1st ring at 28 the same age as Jokic..
@@rxziy6822 How did Duncan start his dynasty at 19 when he was 22 for his first ring? also the spurs had multiple deep playoff runs a chip and a final aperence after ducan turned 34 and even a 61 win season after he retired. Looks like your projecting calling me a casual
In my personal opinion, a guard player with the same output is better than a center player. Centers are less dynamic and is easy to put off in a game
I mean, by definition they can't be more or less dynamic because they have the same output. The main problem is that Jokic isn't a rim protector and Denver doesn't have a true rim protector. Luka doesn't have to be a rim protector so it's easier for him to play good team defense.
@tommydashed4205 nooo, you don't get what I am saying, they can have the same output but timing matters. Eg in tight space situation a center tends to move like a king, with his back to the basket, limited dribbles and its easy to end his dribble when doubled which stalls the offense overall..anyways that is my point
@@christ-Revealed But centers are more efficient which means less wasted possessions, and jokic is inherently a much better defensive & offensive rebounder. I'll take the all around offensively elite 7ft 300lb player over the all around offensively elite 6'7 230lb player.
@MJisGoat797 I prefer the one that can play all round the semi circle, plays both back to basket and front, dribbles well, and keeps the dribble alive more.
@@christ-Revealed You say that as if Jokic has no handles...
I can clearly see that everybody on the panel kno luka better they jus don’t wanna admit it 😂 its lukas league best since bron
Dub is nasty
Cook dub
Luka is silently better. Jokic is nice doe. Not even recent bias involved.
get back to me when whole mavs teams aside from luka and kyrie score 21 points in the whole game
@@ggrlyggrly4476 i dont understand your argument
@kidmelo1994 Game 7 in Denver, the entire Nuggets team (beside Jokic and Murray) only scored 21 points. Basically his point is, if Luka and Kyrie's teammates wet the bed like that, they would also lose.
Real hoopers kno luka is light years better the jokic
ACTUAL real hoopers know Jokic is light years better than Luka...see how that works?