Also important to remember how young these guys were - when most of us were trying to work out how to swap subjects at uni he was leading men into battle, often to their deaths. If he came across a little stiff and cold it may be because he was shitting himself, doubted himself and had to put on a bit of a show to assert himself. But all this, in order to get the job done. Taking that famous raid into the Ruhr valley that night, against all odds and precedent required absolute balls of steel. Flying in the dark, going back in several times to draw enemy fire and pave the way for the loaded bombers was an unbelievable act of courage and self sacrifice.
In a group such as Bomber Command, with its terrible survival rate, to lead such men requires someone with steel. Guy Gibson may not have been warm or friendly, but he strove to carry out a responsible and often daunting command constantly facing death along with his men. We forget how young they were and how cold you sometimes had to be to complete missions without breaking down. There was no room for sentiment and failure to deal with the stress of missions could end with little sympathy and being branded LMF. I knew a pilot who flew Lacs with 463 squadron, he was only a kid, and late in life he still suffered from severe nervous stress.
I took another view after watching this, in that we often put heroes on pedestals and it was refreshing to listen to a man who was there and although thought gibson was somewhat arrogant valued his leadership highly .. I didn't read any disrespect in JJs comments at all.
I met Les Munro some years ago at an air show and one thing I didn't was hero worship or place him on a pedestal. I just treated him as another bloke in a friendly manner and he seemed too appreciate it. Munro was known too call him "caustic" and I can imagine him saying worse!
geez lots of irreverent comments from the armchair: he was 26 when killed, a wing commander no less ... 170+ missions, that alone blew the US press away when they were fussing over 25. Nuts, maybe ... PTSD certainly.
My dad was an INSTRUCTOR.. in the AIR FORCE.. and his mannerisms at home.. were like his JOB AT THE OFFICE..!! it was a DOG EAT DOG.. mentality.. which KEPT HIM ALIVE..!! TILL AGED 81..!! I STILL MISS HIM.. NEARLY 14 YEARS since he TOOK FLIGHT TO THE HEAVENS..!!
I think it is a fair and honest opinion. However Gibson was a Wing Commander ( a very high rank) in his 20s and his personality had not had the chance to catch-up with his terrifying experience. His behavior sounds aloof but most young people have character aspects that they are not proud of in retrospect. He is a heroic figure who died too young to conclude harshly on his true character.
Max Hastings reinforces Johnson's views in his latest book "Operation Chastise" about the Dambuster raid. Interesting to note that W/C Gibson was 23 years old at the time.
A couple of Gibson tales .He stuck his nose into the mess where a crowd of Australian pilots were enjoying themselves in a rowdy manner Telling them to quieten down . The Aussies grab Gibson pulled his trousers off carried him outside and put him on the roof of a car . Gibson drove onto an operational base in his car . The sentry failed to challenge him . Gibson screeched to a halt and came storming back to the sentry reprimanding telling him it was standing orders to fire on any vehicle which failed to stop . The sentry said " Im very sorry sir perhaps you would like to reverse up and try again ".
We must never forget that Gibson was only 24. No life experience. Had he survived the war - like Leonard Cheshire - who knows what achievements awaited a more well rounded character.
I believe that when someone leads there must be a certain amount of arrogance and belief in your ability to be able do the job in question . It doesn't make you a bad person just a focused one .
In Warriors, by Max Hastings, he describes how Gibson went to the hospital to sit by the side of a badly burned flight mechanic, so that he might not die alone. This moved me greatly.
Thank you for your clear and well rounded description of Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC, Flight Sergeant Johnny Johnson. It is quite am accurate account of him. Winston Churchill hailed him the "Dam Buster" and one of the most splendid of fighting men! Listen to the radio interview with him to gain more clarity into this extraordinarily accomplished young man. He was expressed his thoughts articulately, refined speech, clear thinking and fluently spoken and sharp witted young man with a charming sense of humour. His cool calm collectedness might have been mistaken for being cold hearted .Let us remember that demeanor between social classes in Britain, especially in those stratified times had a wide variance. He did not once come across as arrogant but more demure in fact, aside from putting down the "huns" which at the time no English. Scottish, Welsh or Irish man or American or other allied fighters would have objected to. Show me one man who at the age of 24 rose to the RAF rank of Wing Commander and was vouched amongst the most elite Pilots of the RAF which was not just an AirForce of Britain but Great Britain and her Dominions the Great British Empire.He was born and grew up in n British India till aged six when his parents split up. He found passion in Aviation to dive into as his solitary world, something I can relate to my self having obsessed with this occupation since a child and still at 60 flying!I was schooled at an English Public School and served the RAF as a Volunteer in the late 1970s and early 80s and had a glimpse of how tough it can be there to rise to anything. Let us celebrate this splendid chap's achievements and show respect to all those who fought and died in the WW2. He cheated death partly by skill and bravery and partly by fate. as he modestly put it. In his interview he admitted there were 'boys" as he fondly referred to his colleagues that arrived in the RAF 3 years before him and some of whom he moulded himself around their attributes and styles a his heroes only to see them die and he surving.He did not fuss too much on what he had gone through and was not bragging on his accolades and remained modest and engaging throughout the interview. Well done old boy! Hip Hip...Hooray! Guy Gibson...as Churchill described him..."one of our bravest warriors" and I would add..he came across as quite a jolly fellow in that interview! Only the good die young! What a loss it might have been for Britain if the RAF had not reconsidered his application after he was initially rejected in 1936 because of his height! ruclips.net/video/DQ8kJfeVd4Q/видео.htmlsi=uwh5phuP-6BjHgXq
Was well known for being rude to 'erks' but as they say he would not ask anyone to do anything that he would not do himself. Some of his crew hated him for the risks he took to get the job done such as drawing enemy fire whilst other planes attacked the dams
The thing is at the end of the day Guy Gibson was not there to make friends just to get a very difficult job done not to be the best of friends with everyone especially in war time as any one of them could be dead in no time.
"You're doing this, I'm doing this, we're doing this together." It wasn't just him though was it. There were another five guys in his Lanc and they hadn't been consulted about uneccesarily having another run through as a target for AA. I learned from their memoirs that this rankled, as did the handing out of gongs for bravery.
Was going to say the same. People who get a VC are seldom popular with their comrades. The award, by its very nature, indicates recklessness and a disregard for the safety of others.
@@rhhmunro 2 sorts of VCs. The sudden reaction and the long time cold bravery of repeatedly taking on danger. I have to say, the NZ Charles Upham was modest, and genuine. He came in from a desert mission, exhausted. Just wanted to collapse on bed. The sad little cat the squadron adopted had just given birth on his camp bed. He threw his bedding on the floor and left her in peace. I would have followed him anywhere
The thing is, sometime people just had to be that way otherwise they would never have achieved what they did. There really wasn't time for people to hold others hands, I shudder to think what todays 20yr olds would manage in that situation
I remember Sir Frank Williams saying Nigel Mansell was the best driver he ever had - and the most arrogant person who had ever worked for him, but that these were opposite sides of the same coin. I suspect the RAF heroes like Gibson and Bader were much the same.
As an after thought and having served in the Royal air force , I always recognised that difficult decisions are the privilege of rank, Wing commander Guy Penrose Gibson had the rank and was entitled not to be wishy washy but a disciplinarian , I myself did not object to this when I was serving by my superiors but some were aggrieved by it, and could not accept discipline... We are all different..
I knew some guys who were also (health kept me out) and what got them was those who abused it, flaunted it and felt it was entitled rather then earned. Then that was them telling me, so who am I too say.
I don't think those who commented upon Gibson's "arrogance" were incapable of accepting discipline, but he was known for his inability/refusal to communicate civilly with the other ranks. About 70% of the Dambuster crews were sergents, but you'd never know that from the film. Interestingly, Bader went to the same school and was also known for his arrogance. Says a lot about the school I think. My father was Bomber Command aircrew and long after his death his grandson met a member of his ground crew who said he was a terrific bloke because, "despite being aircrew" he always spoke with them.
Gibson was a product of the age - a snob who (initially at least) couldn't really communicate with lower ranks. But it was the lower ranks, pilot sergeants etc who won the air war, more than Guy and his Oxbridge contemporaries. Guy's attitude changed, and as Johnny says, he became a great leader.
I think it is important to note that Guy had a strange upbringing. Born in India and then shipped off to boarding school at the age of five along with his brother. His father was a strange man by all accounts and his mother an alcoholic. Guy wasn't an especially academic either and didn't attend university as far as I'm aware and joined the RAF after finishing school. Perhaps we could put his lack of ease at socialising with lower ranks partly down to that as well as the class barriers that operated in the RAF at that time. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he was one of the best bomber command had at that time and was available to take the squadron at the right time.
I imagine it's not easy to exercise the authority necessary to do your job well and be friendly with those you have to command in war. But is was likely a class thing, my school was a few hundred yards from the school Guy Gibson attended and the kids there didn't speak to us.
He was a member of 617 squadron, Bomber Command. The other is the topscoring fighter pilot then serving in Fighter comand. Although insiders believe the real number 1 scoring ace was Pat Pattle.
@@cirrus1964 Recall reading the relative scores a while back - Johnson 38 and Pattle 51 although Pattle's official records were lost in an air raid later in the war after his death.
There were many ‘Johnny’ Johnsons in the RAF, it’s just a nickname for someone with the surname Johnson. This is Squadron Leader George Leonard Johnson who was in Joe McCarthy’s crew on the dams raid as a Sgt Bomb Aimer, he is also the last surviving member of the mission. The fighter ace was Air Vice Marshal James Edgar Johnson who was a Wing Leader during WW2 and one of the leading British aces with 38 confirmed kills.
To Ady longmate... What you do not realise maybe you are ..TO .. young but what people like you do not appear to realise is these fellows fought for democracy ,That allows me and you to voice my opinion.. so do not be so rude !!, telling people to keep quite .. I am old enough to be your grand father but from what I digest of your comment you are ignorant of the time and men in question.. So do not be so rude and go somewhere to learn manners if you did not learn them from home and up-bringing...which seems so..
I totally agree with you. I have lived a full and happy life for the past 73 years because of the sacrifices of the men and women of my parent's generation. Best to ignore rude people. They are not "feisty" or "opinionated" they are just rude. As for the heroes, we will remember them.
What a hell of a nice man ! There are not many who would speak so well of him . He was not the nicest person to deal with . He could not land a Lanc properly. Without bouncing it, not the thing to do with such a large plane . But he was very very brave !
Mahigpit po si Mr. Gibson sa mga subordinates nya? Meticulous lang po siguro,,gusto nya po ng precise planning o gusto po nyang seryoso ang lahat sa trabaho
What a lot of those who comment on this interview don't seem to understand is the insufferable level of snobbery and 'classism' that existed in the pre-war RAF. Gibson was clearly a snob who could barely tolerate people he believed to be his social inferiors. When the necessities of war opened the RAF up to air crews from the 'lower classes' and the colonies (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa) guys like Gibson didn't like it one bit but eventually and reluctantly had to accept it. That doesn't mean to say that he wasn't brave or tactically sound, but in truth, he probably wasn't a particularly pleasant fellow.
In WW1, McCudden VC, was posted to take over 85 Squadron, but the pilots banded together to object to the posting as he was not one of them having been borne in Barracks the son of a soldier
Well Bomber Command was 40% ‘colonial’ mostly Canadian, Australian and New Zealander, it was far more than a token contribution. Something I think at times the British forget. Without their contribution things could have been very different.
They were all brave fellows, sargeant pilots and all, but the vast majority of the permanent RAF officers at the beginning of the war were a bunch of snobs. Some wouldn't fly with an N C O as their wingman or similarly wouldn't fly as second in command to a sargeant pilot in command. After an heroic aerial battle, the pilots would retire to their seperate messes. There was virtually no fraternization in the pubs. Thete is no doubt most of those young officers in the permanent RAF erroneously thought themseives superior to non commissioned expert pilots. They were fighting to retain an English priviliged lifestyle. It was beautifully ironic that the top scoring number of kills pilot was a sargeant pilot - Johnmy Johnson.
GUY GIBSON IS SAID TO BE VERY LEVEL HEADED,NOT ARROGANT OR STUCK UP IN ANYWAY WHAT SO EVER! SHAME ON THOSE WHOM SLAGG HIM OFF,ARE THEY JELEOUS-PROBLEY ARE!=WERE WITH YOU GUY TO DEFEND YOUR CORNER WHEN YOURE NOT HERE TO GET THE CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND YOUR SELF!
If Johnnie Johnson says he was arrogant and stuck up then I will believe him over someone like you who believes in blind hero worshipping while ignoring the truth.
Had you been an NCO anywhere near Gibson he would not have even seen you. In a lancaster the effective second Pilot was the Air Engineer, in Gibsons case a Sergeant, who is not even mentioned in his book. Despite all the gobbledygook Gibsons style of leadership does not get the best out of people, italianates most. When you have served with real leaders you realize there is a huge difference.
Might just be an idea to tidy up your grammar, spelling etc, etc & make sure your brain is engaged properly before placing that BIG MOUTH of yours into gear!!. The damn truth is Gibson was an arsehole, I'm not rubbishing his personal achievements of course whilst he was in the RAF but as I said & I reiterate yet again, he was simply an arsehole & suffered from small man syndrome which is typical of little men physically & he surely was rather small!! Read some history on this arsehole as there is plenty of it out there & find out what some of his squadron mates really thought of him!! (yeah right)
gutted,at these aweful comments! EVERY ONE HAS ALWAYS SPOKEN FAR MORE THAN VERY HIGHLY OF GUY GIBSON,IM SURE THEY WOULD DIS AGREE WIYH THE COMMENTS! GUY GIBSON GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US,HOW EASY IS IT TO SLAGG SOMEONE OFF WHEN THEY HAVE DIED,AND ARE NOT HERE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES!!! SORRY BUT GUY GIBSONS QUITE SIMPLY THE BEST!
History is written by the victors - always. In this case, by the Officer Class. See the scene in The Dambusters films were they are selecting the crews. Priceless. My father was Bomber Command Aircrew and he met some men who had flown with Gibson, not one of them had a good word to say about him. These men had not been "turfed out" of the RAF, but were highly respected, skilled aircrew, some of whom also died, so their comments did not come from bitterness.
Gibson was undoubtedly a brave chap but then most of these guys were. All RAF aircrew were volunteers, after all. They literally put themselves in harm's way and a very high proportion died as a consequence. But I don't think we should view these men through rose tinted spectacles, just because they were brave. Gibson clearly had his faults. By all accounts he was not a particularly popular 'leader' and in all probability he was something of an arrogant if not unpleasant 'snob' (by many accounts a feature of the inter-war RAF office 'class'). I also find it interesting that he alone received the VC and yet all of the raiders faced the same dangers on the raid and demonstrated great courage in bringing the attack to a successful conclusion. However, as audacious as the raid was, it was probably no more dangerous than a trip up the Ruhr or a run over Berlin. True, Gibson is said to have flown over the target several times to 'draw' flak away from an attacking aircraft, however, in truth, the flak defenses around the dams was very light to non-existent when compared to a number of other Bomber Command targets - largely because it was widely believed that the dams were all but impregnable to bombing. It should also be noted that Gibson wasn't the only Bomber Command pilot to 'fly interference' in this way, but as far as I'm aware, he is the only one who received a VC. In that respect I think we can reasonably conclude that the award was, to an extent, an aspect of the propaganda campaign that was launched immediately after the raid, in an effort to maximize it's effects. At the end of the day, Gibson was one of 55,000 Bomber Command aircrew to be killed over the Continent during the war. The exact circumstances of his death remain unknown but in all probability his death, and the death of his navigator, occurred because Gibson, although lacking the necessary experience, insisted on controlling a raid using a Mosquito aircraft, even though he was not particularly familiar with the aircraft's operational features.
To Johnny Johnson, I never knew Wing Commander Guy Gibson..I cannot argue with you but things of a personal nature should be kept out of the history of a war hero..We have a habit of putting people like this down based on personality , surely what counts is he DID the job..I think it very wrong and disturbing to talk like this when the man cannot defend himself ..I admire all aircrew that flew these missions, My dad said in the first great war GCs ,MCs decorations were picked out of a hat so if they got back home the officers could use it after there name on there writing paper..Not so with Wing Commander Guy Gibson or indeed Leonard Cheshire VC..ex RAF 5131 Bomb disposal sqn...
Maybe. Great men (and he was a great man) aren't always great people, and he may have been flawed but that made him human. If Peter Jackson ever get around too making the film remake this will make great drama. Less likely now after so many years and the death of pilot Les Munro.
and your point is? Heros or otherwise perfect and he was putting his opinion across ...one the RAFBF thought good enough to cover. btw if you look at JJs medals he also has a bravery award...
How stunningly frank & clear minded of Johnny. And what a wonderful insight into Guy’s real leadership. Bravo!
"Leading from the front" Is there truly any other way?.. Brave young men I'll never forget
Also important to remember how young these guys were - when most of us were trying to work out how to swap subjects at uni he was leading men into battle, often to their deaths. If he came across a little stiff and cold it may be because he was shitting himself, doubted himself and had to put on a bit of a show to assert himself. But all this, in order to get the job done. Taking that famous raid into the Ruhr valley that night, against all odds and precedent required absolute balls of steel. Flying in the dark, going back in several times to draw enemy fire and pave the way for the loaded bombers was an unbelievable act of courage and self sacrifice.
@James Henderson What a prick you are.🇬🇧
@James Henderson you bloody ungrateful idiot.
James Henderson you are just Opportunities lowlife scumbag.
snowflake@James Henderson
Bally good show. Bet his own crew were as impressed with his “balls of steel.”
As Winston Churchill said of Guy Gibson...one of our country's greatest warriors...
Cometh the hour Cometh the man.
A true English hero sadly missed by many, RIP brave man 🙏❤️🇬🇧🇬🇧❤️🙏Dec twenty two
GIBSON WAS NO HERO.. HE WAS A RACIST AND MURDERER WITH A BLACK DOG NAMED NIGGr.
In a group such as Bomber Command, with its terrible survival rate, to lead such men requires someone with steel. Guy Gibson may not have been warm or friendly, but he strove to carry out a responsible and often daunting command constantly facing death along with his men. We forget how young they were and how cold you sometimes had to be to complete missions without breaking down. There was no room for sentiment and failure to deal with the stress of missions could end with little sympathy and being branded LMF. I knew a pilot who flew Lacs with 463 squadron, he was only a kid, and late in life he still suffered from severe nervous stress.
I took another view after watching this, in that we often put heroes on pedestals and it was refreshing to listen to a man who was there and although thought gibson was somewhat arrogant valued his leadership highly .. I didn't read any disrespect in JJs comments at all.
I met Les Munro some years ago at an air show and one thing I didn't was hero worship or place him on a pedestal. I just treated him as another bloke in a friendly manner and he seemed too appreciate it. Munro was known too call him "caustic" and I can imagine him saying worse!
@James Henderson EVEN BIGGER ARSEHOLE THAN MY FIRST COMMENT.
I agree with all 'brabs2'says. Sums it up well.
geez lots of irreverent comments from the armchair: he was 26 when killed, a wing commander no less ... 170+ missions, that alone blew the US press away when they were fussing over 25. Nuts, maybe ... PTSD certainly.
My dad was an INSTRUCTOR.. in the AIR FORCE.. and his mannerisms at home.. were like his JOB AT THE OFFICE..!! it was a DOG EAT DOG.. mentality.. which KEPT HIM ALIVE..!! TILL AGED 81..!! I STILL MISS HIM.. NEARLY 14 YEARS since he TOOK FLIGHT TO THE HEAVENS..!!
I think it is a fair and honest opinion. However Gibson was a Wing Commander ( a very high rank) in his 20s and his personality had not had the chance to catch-up with his terrifying experience. His behavior sounds aloof but most young people have character aspects that they are not proud of in retrospect. He is a heroic figure who died too young to conclude harshly on his true character.
Spitfire pilot Paddy Finucane was a Wing Commander when he was killed in action, at the age of 21.
@@MarsFKA Another well known name.
Max Hastings reinforces Johnson's views in his latest book "Operation Chastise" about the Dambuster raid. Interesting to note that W/C Gibson was 23 years old at the time.
A couple of Gibson tales .He stuck his nose into the mess where a crowd of Australian pilots were enjoying themselves in a rowdy manner Telling them to quieten down . The Aussies grab Gibson pulled his trousers off carried him outside and put him on the roof of a car . Gibson drove onto an operational base in his car . The sentry failed to challenge him . Gibson screeched to a halt and came storming back to the sentry reprimanding telling him it was standing orders to fire on any vehicle which failed to stop . The sentry said " Im very sorry sir perhaps you would like to reverse up and try again ".
@Molly McCullagh There are bound to be apocryphyl stories about Gibson and I suspect that this was one of them.
Lol. I remember him recounting how he used to speed around Lincoln in his car, nearly hitting a policeman who had rashly tried to stop him, one time.
We must never forget that Gibson was only 24. No life experience. Had he survived the war - like Leonard Cheshire - who knows what achievements awaited a more well rounded character.
Douglas Bader and Guy Gibson must have had much in common. Both men were outstanding pilots and leaders especially Bader with his tin legs!
Both were anti-Semitic and openly racist.
Thank you for sharing ❤ 😊 😀🙏
I believe that when someone leads there must be a certain amount of arrogance and belief in your ability to be able do the job in question . It doesn't make you a bad person just a focused one .
I believe the late great Dave Shannon called Gibson the"Arch Bastard" but with a wry smile when he said it.
Put it this way, if given the choice I'd certainly volunteer to be in Guy's crew and plane. Johnny would be there too!
In Warriors, by Max Hastings, he describes how Gibson went to the hospital to sit by the side of a badly burned flight mechanic, so that he might not die alone. This moved me greatly.
Thank you for your clear and well rounded description of Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC, Flight Sergeant Johnny Johnson. It is quite am accurate account of him.
Winston Churchill hailed him the "Dam Buster" and one of the most splendid of fighting men!
Listen to the radio interview with him to gain more clarity into this extraordinarily accomplished young man. He was expressed his thoughts articulately, refined speech, clear thinking and fluently spoken and sharp witted young man with a charming sense of humour. His cool calm collectedness might have been mistaken for being cold hearted .Let us remember that demeanor between social classes in Britain, especially in those stratified times had a wide variance. He did not once come across as arrogant but more demure in fact, aside from putting down the "huns" which at the time no English. Scottish, Welsh or Irish man or American or other allied fighters would have objected to. Show me one man who at the age of 24 rose to the RAF rank of Wing Commander and was vouched amongst the most elite Pilots of the RAF which was not just an AirForce of Britain but Great Britain and her Dominions the Great British Empire.He was born and grew up in n British India till aged six when his parents split up. He found passion in Aviation to dive into as his solitary world, something I can relate to my self having obsessed with this occupation since a child and still at 60 flying!I was schooled at an English Public School and served the RAF as a Volunteer in the late 1970s and early 80s and had a glimpse of how tough it can be there to rise to anything. Let us celebrate this splendid chap's achievements and show respect to all those who fought and died in the WW2. He cheated death partly by skill and bravery and partly by fate. as he modestly put it. In his interview he admitted there were 'boys" as he fondly referred to his colleagues that arrived in the RAF 3 years before him and some of whom he moulded himself around their attributes and styles a his heroes only to see them die and he surving.He did not fuss too much on what he had gone through and was not bragging on his accolades and remained modest and engaging throughout the interview. Well done old boy! Hip Hip...Hooray! Guy Gibson...as Churchill described him..."one of our bravest warriors" and I would add..he came across as quite a jolly fellow in that interview! Only the good die young! What a loss it might have been for Britain if the RAF had not reconsidered his application after he was initially rejected in 1936 because of his height!
ruclips.net/video/DQ8kJfeVd4Q/видео.htmlsi=uwh5phuP-6BjHgXq
still a hero imho
Was well known for being rude to 'erks' but as they say he would not ask anyone to do anything that he would not do himself. Some of his crew hated him for the risks he took to get the job done such as drawing enemy fire whilst other planes attacked the dams
The thing is at the end of the day Guy Gibson was not there to make friends just to get a very difficult job done not to be the best of friends with everyone especially in war time as any one of them could be dead in no time.
Thank you, Sir.
Don't forget that Guy Gibson was just TWENTY FOUR when he led Operation Chastise! TWENTY FOUR!
@James Henderson It would be a war crime now but wasn't then
@James Henderson what utter crap you have written
I believe that Hugh "Cocky" Dundas, one of Douglas Bader's men, also became a Wing Commander at the age of 23. Highly remarkable.
Well said from someone that actually served with him rather than a slagging off from some keyboard hero.
A BRAVE MAN
"You're doing this, I'm doing this, we're doing this together."
It wasn't just him though was it. There were another five guys in his Lanc and they hadn't been consulted about uneccesarily having another run through as a target for AA.
I learned from their memoirs that this rankled, as did the handing out of gongs for bravery.
Was going to say the same. People who get a VC are seldom popular with their comrades. The award, by its very nature, indicates recklessness and a disregard for the safety of others.
@@rhhmunro 2 sorts of VCs.
The sudden reaction and the long time cold bravery of repeatedly taking on danger.
I have to say, the NZ Charles Upham was modest, and genuine.
He came in from a desert mission, exhausted. Just wanted to collapse on bed. The sad little cat the squadron adopted had just given birth on his camp bed.
He threw his bedding on the floor and left her in peace. I would have followed him anywhere
@@georgielancaster1356 Charles VC AND BAR.
" unnecessarily having another run through as a target for AA." Did you learn nothing from what JJ said?"
I knew a Flight Sergeant air gunner who said pretty much the same thing about Gibson.
My great great grandfather is guy gibson ❤️❤️
Yes but not THE Guy Gibson as he didn't have any kids.
The thing is, sometime people just had to be that way otherwise they would never have achieved what they did. There really wasn't time for people to hold others hands, I shudder to think what todays 20yr olds would manage in that situation
I remember Sir Frank Williams saying Nigel Mansell was the best driver he ever had - and the most arrogant person who had ever worked for him, but that these were opposite sides of the same coin. I suspect the RAF heroes like Gibson and Bader were much the same.
I respect this man as such, even in those days, he belonged to the so-called enemy! May he rest in peace.
As an after thought and having served in the Royal air force , I always recognised that difficult decisions are the privilege of rank, Wing commander Guy Penrose Gibson had the rank and was entitled not to be wishy washy but a disciplinarian , I myself did not object to this when I was serving by my superiors but some were aggrieved by it, and could not accept discipline... We are all different..
I knew some guys who were also (health kept me out) and what got them was those who abused it, flaunted it and felt it was entitled rather then earned. Then that was them telling me, so who am I too say.
I don't think those who commented upon Gibson's "arrogance" were incapable of accepting discipline, but he was known for his inability/refusal to communicate civilly with the other ranks. About 70% of the Dambuster crews were sergents, but you'd never know that from the film. Interestingly, Bader went to the same school and was also known for his arrogance. Says a lot about the school I think. My father was Bomber Command aircrew and long after his death his grandson met a member of his ground crew who said he was a terrific bloke because, "despite being aircrew" he always spoke with them.
It's easier to accept arrogance from a great leader than from a lesser person.
Gibson was a product of the age - a snob who (initially at least) couldn't really communicate with lower ranks. But it was the lower ranks, pilot sergeants etc who won the air war, more than Guy and his Oxbridge contemporaries. Guy's attitude changed, and as Johnny says, he became a great leader.
I think it is important to note that Guy had a strange upbringing. Born in India and then shipped off to boarding school at the age of five along with his brother. His father was a strange man by all accounts and his mother an alcoholic. Guy wasn't an especially academic either and didn't attend university as far as I'm aware and joined the RAF after finishing school.
Perhaps we could put his lack of ease at socialising with lower ranks partly down to that as well as the class barriers that operated in the RAF at that time. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he was one of the best bomber command had at that time and was available to take the squadron at the right time.
Not to mention the "erks", without whom the aeroplanes wouldn't be able to fly!
respect for Mr veteran ww ll U S. I Like him .🤓🙏🏻🥀🌹❤️
I imagine it's not easy to exercise the authority necessary to do your job well and be friendly with those you have to command in war. But is was likely a class thing, my school was a few hundred yards from the school Guy Gibson attended and the kids there didn't speak to us.
Were there two Johnny Johnsons, ? The only one I know of was the Squadron Leader of a Fighter wing. What did this other chap do ?
He was a member of 617 squadron, Bomber Command. The other is the topscoring fighter pilot then serving in Fighter comand. Although insiders believe the real number 1 scoring ace was Pat Pattle.
@@cirrus1964 And Pattle scored most of his flying Gladiators.
@@cirrus1964 Recall reading the relative scores a while back - Johnson 38 and Pattle 51 although Pattle's official records were lost in an air raid later in the war after his death.
There were many ‘Johnny’ Johnsons in the RAF, it’s just a nickname for someone with the surname Johnson. This is Squadron Leader George Leonard Johnson who was in Joe McCarthy’s crew on the dams raid as a Sgt Bomb Aimer, he is also the last surviving member of the mission. The fighter ace was Air Vice Marshal James Edgar Johnson who was a Wing Leader during WW2 and one of the leading British aces with 38 confirmed kills.
Bloody heros!!!!!
More like terrorists.
To Ady longmate...
What you do not realise maybe you are ..TO .. young but what people like you do not appear to realise is these fellows fought for democracy ,That allows me and you to voice my opinion.. so do not be so rude !!, telling people to keep quite .. I am old enough to be your grand father but from what I digest of your comment you are ignorant of the time and men in question.. So do not be so rude and go somewhere to learn manners if you did not learn them from home and up-bringing...which seems so..
I totally agree with you. I have lived a full and happy life for the past 73 years because of the sacrifices of the men and women of my parent's generation. Best to ignore rude people. They are not "feisty" or "opinionated" they are just rude. As for the heroes, we will remember them.
Amazing how many missions he did compared to the americans 25 then homeside!
Increased to 30 later in the war.
similar character to to Douglas Bader
I believe they went to the same private school!!!
What a hell of a nice man ! There are not many who would speak so well of him . He was not the nicest person to deal with . He could not land a Lanc properly. Without bouncing it, not the thing to do with such a large plane . But he was very very brave !
Mahigpit po si Mr. Gibson sa mga subordinates nya?
Meticulous lang po siguro,,gusto nya po ng precise planning o gusto po nyang seryoso ang lahat sa trabaho
I've had tea and bikkies with him.
Hero WW2!
What a lot of those who comment on this interview don't seem to understand is the insufferable level of snobbery and 'classism' that existed in the pre-war RAF. Gibson was clearly a snob who could barely tolerate people he believed to be his social inferiors. When the necessities of war opened the RAF up to air crews from the 'lower classes' and the colonies (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa) guys like Gibson didn't like it one bit but eventually and reluctantly had to accept it. That doesn't mean to say that he wasn't brave or tactically sound, but in truth, he probably wasn't a particularly pleasant fellow.
In WW1, McCudden VC, was posted to take over 85 Squadron, but the pilots banded together to object to the posting as he was not one of them having been borne in Barracks the son of a soldier
Well Bomber Command was 40% ‘colonial’ mostly Canadian, Australian and New Zealander, it was far more than a token contribution. Something I think at times the British forget. Without their contribution things could have been very different.
Don’t forget the “short ass syndrome “.
And don't forget the women of the RAF.
Should we perhaps rename Gibsons dog Whitie. Will that suit everyone?
Dont mention his dog!
Shaggy. Mr bubble
They were all brave fellows, sargeant pilots and all, but the vast majority of the permanent RAF officers at the beginning of the war were a bunch of snobs. Some wouldn't fly with an N C O as their wingman or similarly wouldn't fly as second in command to a sargeant pilot in command. After an heroic aerial battle, the pilots would retire to their seperate messes. There was virtually no fraternization in the pubs. Thete is no doubt most of those young officers in the permanent RAF erroneously thought themseives superior to non commissioned expert pilots. They were fighting to retain an English priviliged lifestyle. It was beautifully ironic that the top scoring number of kills pilot was a sargeant pilot - Johnmy Johnson.
GUY GIBSON IS SAID TO BE VERY LEVEL HEADED,NOT ARROGANT OR STUCK UP IN ANYWAY WHAT SO EVER! SHAME ON THOSE WHOM SLAGG HIM OFF,ARE THEY JELEOUS-PROBLEY ARE!=WERE WITH YOU GUY TO DEFEND YOUR CORNER WHEN YOURE NOT HERE TO GET THE CHANCE TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND YOUR SELF!
If Johnnie Johnson says he was arrogant and stuck up then I will believe him over someone like you who believes in blind hero worshipping while ignoring the truth.
Had you been an NCO anywhere near Gibson he would not have even seen you. In a lancaster the effective second Pilot was the Air Engineer, in Gibsons case a Sergeant, who is not even mentioned in his book. Despite all the gobbledygook Gibsons style of leadership does not get the best out of people, italianates most. When you have served with real leaders you realize there is a huge difference.
Might just be an idea to tidy up your grammar, spelling etc, etc & make sure your brain is engaged properly before placing that BIG MOUTH of yours into gear!!. The damn truth is Gibson was an arsehole, I'm not rubbishing his personal achievements of course whilst he was in the RAF but as I said & I reiterate yet again, he was simply an arsehole & suffered from small man syndrome which is typical of little men physically & he surely was rather small!! Read some history on this arsehole as there is plenty of it out there & find out what some of his squadron mates really thought of him!! (yeah right)
There's no denying his heroism, or ability. He can still be a bit of a dick though. Are we not allowed to criticize the dead now ?
gutted,at these aweful comments! EVERY ONE HAS ALWAYS SPOKEN FAR MORE THAN VERY HIGHLY OF GUY GIBSON,IM SURE THEY WOULD DIS AGREE WIYH THE COMMENTS! GUY GIBSON GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US,HOW EASY IS IT TO SLAGG SOMEONE OFF WHEN THEY HAVE DIED,AND ARE NOT HERE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES!!! SORRY BUT GUY GIBSONS QUITE SIMPLY THE BEST!
History is written by the victors - always. In this case, by the Officer Class. See the scene in The Dambusters films were they are selecting the crews. Priceless. My father was Bomber Command Aircrew and he met some men who had flown with Gibson, not one of them had a good word to say about him. These men had not been "turfed out" of the RAF, but were highly respected, skilled aircrew, some of whom also died, so their comments did not come from bitterness.
Gibson was undoubtedly a brave chap but then most of these guys were. All RAF aircrew were volunteers, after all. They literally put themselves in harm's way and a very high proportion died as a consequence. But I don't think we should view these men through rose tinted spectacles, just because they were brave. Gibson clearly had his faults. By all accounts he was not a particularly popular 'leader' and in all probability he was something of an arrogant if not unpleasant 'snob' (by many accounts a feature of the inter-war RAF office 'class'). I also find it interesting that he alone received the VC and yet all of the raiders faced the same dangers on the raid and demonstrated great courage in bringing the attack to a successful conclusion. However, as audacious as the raid was, it was probably no more dangerous than a trip up the Ruhr or a run over Berlin. True, Gibson is said to have flown over the target several times to 'draw' flak away from an attacking aircraft, however, in truth, the flak defenses around the dams was very light to non-existent when compared to a number of other Bomber Command targets - largely because it was widely believed that the dams were all but impregnable to bombing. It should also be noted that Gibson wasn't the only Bomber Command pilot to 'fly interference' in this way, but as far as I'm aware, he is the only one who received a VC. In that respect I think we can reasonably conclude that the award was, to an extent, an aspect of the propaganda campaign that was launched immediately after the raid, in an effort to maximize it's effects. At the end of the day, Gibson was one of 55,000 Bomber Command aircrew to be killed over the Continent during the war. The exact circumstances of his death remain unknown but in all probability his death, and the death of his navigator, occurred because Gibson, although lacking the necessary experience, insisted on controlling a raid using a Mosquito aircraft, even though he was not particularly familiar with the aircraft's operational features.
The likes of men of their calliber will never pass this way again
Arrogance describes most British military officers. The NCO's were the true leaders
To Johnny Johnson,
I never knew Wing Commander Guy Gibson..I cannot argue with you but things of a personal nature should be kept out of the history of a war hero..We have a habit of putting people like this down based on personality , surely what counts is he DID the job..I think it very wrong and disturbing to talk like this when the man cannot defend himself ..I admire all aircrew that flew these missions, My dad said in the first great war GCs ,MCs decorations were picked out of a hat so if they got back home the officers could use it after there name on there writing paper..Not so with Wing Commander Guy Gibson or indeed Leonard Cheshire VC..ex RAF 5131 Bomb disposal sqn...
With the utmost respect, insights such as this help with later history. If only we had an actual account of Caligula by someone who knew him.
He wasn't putting him down, just made him human. It was probably this story that made him understand those he led.
The truth should be told. Gibson was also a womaniser.
Maybe. Great men (and he was a great man) aren't always great people, and he may have been flawed but that made him human. If Peter Jackson ever get around too making the film remake this will make great drama. Less likely now after so many years and the death of pilot Les Munro.
and your point is? Heros or otherwise perfect and he was putting his opinion across ...one the RAFBF thought good enough to cover.
btw if you look at JJs medals he also has a bravery award...
Z
War criminal.
@@markharrison2544 Pathetic. Sad. Pitiable. Probably a volunteer . Aren't you?
Throttle Gals Magazine Australia Volunteer for what?
@Mark Harrison = narrow-minded idiot who does not know history, reality or wishes to ignore it entirely; either way an idiot.
@@GrumblingGrognard he's a troll mate, seen several of his comments on various sites. he was born minus his balls.
@James Henderson what sort of nutter are you?