October 24 - Tempers flared in the North Gauteng High Court, during an application to prevent former crime intelligence boss Richard Mdluli from returning to work.
I had an opportunity of working with Adv. Mokhare SC in various matters. I must say, he's always on point. His arguments are unbelievable, they simply shows the level of wisdom that one has.
"How dare you speak to me like that" The Judge wants to be respected but cant even offer the same respect. Why do judges want to be hailed high like they are gods?
Lol not because of that only miss. He failed to respond to, the judge’s requests. And made a strict assertion that he was not going to answer a question, the judge hasn’t even determined was presumptuous or not!
The Judge is also out of order. He failed to uphold 10 Commandment of a judicial officer, one of which is patience. You don't walk away like that causing unnecessary drama. He literally failed to contain his emotions.
My brother you were correct, the judge must be fair and can’t order you to take your seat and verbally threaten you. As a court he is supposed to be the one who must kept and restore order. He could have adjourned the court and called you to his chambers to solve the matter. In the end another judge had to come to adjourn the case.
@@eugenemolebatsi1871 Indeed they're not gods, they're human. Moreover, if you're disrespect rises to the level of contempt the judge will treat you and your case with the view if defending the honour of the court. Not a good place to be if you're trying to act in the best interests of your client.
that is due to ethic of respect the Judiciary order, akukho kini in court, this is a profession of hierarchy, you feel otherwise the are proper channels to address such. Lets not make a court like SA parliament.
This is a case of poor judicial temperament. Judges must restrain themselves under the Judicial Code of Conduct. Counsel has correctly, in my view, taken a stand against such temperament.
😂 there was no need for both of them to act up because of egos jurisprudence allows the advocate to apply for the judge to recuse himself with substantiation of course...but I'm guessing throwing a tantrum and leaving isn't judicial practice anyway
Something is happening in courts in South Africa iyoooh judges and Advocates iyoooh Baba uNkulunkulu ngenelela ezweni lethu South Africa its really sad.
I WONDER those who make anti adv Mokhari comments have they ever been in motion court proceedings addresing the court directly. Motion court can be ruthless if you allow yourself to be easily bullied by Judges like this "presumptuous " question which was in contention between Adv Mokhari and Judge Murphy the effect of that question was a very dispositive one to the matter if you care to follow those proceedings so Adv Mokhari being a SENIOR COUNSEL was very mindful of answering that " presumptuous " question will have an extinguishing effect on his client's case. When you are in court answer factual questions not subliminal assumptions in the question because you are there to present facts not deductive reasoning. So you must have balls first and experience to lock the judge on facts. Above all advocacy profession is not for those who got timorous souls. How can you potray your intellectual vigour against seasoned judges if you are a timid advocate, intellectual vigour need no person who is afraid to stretch court's decorum when the judge is showing untimely and univited intellectual superiority.
@@Livermore007 you're intellectually sterile wena I doubt you've ever been to motion court Magistrate nor High Court I doubt you have ever appeared even before tribal authority court ( under tree) and move your client's case
@@fabrigus6405 That is your opinion at large it is meaningless. I don't need to have even a paralegal certificate to have an opinion. You haven't reason with me if you turn to have thee academic know who i am attitude, let alone i need not people like you who are emotionally tied and bias to tell me what courts do. This was not a factual matter if it was be it senior counsel he presented it poorly this happens like to Adv Mpofu for example. Next time punctuate since you thinking western education paper has turned you to a better person who makes judgement on people who you don't even know.
@@Livermore007 The problem started when I attacked the court process you in turn attacked me in your commentary. But in any event I haven't discern any sound and convincing logic from you as to whether the judge can compel an advocate to break sequence of his argument because it ( the argument) can only be convincing and logically once all the argument chain is presented not part thereof. BUT SO FAR YOU HAVE PRESENTED ME WITH AN INCOHERENT AND BALDERDASH COMMENTS WHICH DOES NOT WORTH A DIGNIFIED PROCEDURAL COURT RESPONSE.
You attack a court process which you call factual whereas nothing was factual but a wording technicality (the word was; presumptuous to be precise) followed by your emotions since the is a legal process to deal with a judge that was not far from people like you. Let alone you appear drunk in only your thinking , you were attacking me about my academic stand which by the way you have no knowledge about unless you have some educated guess to what an attack is that you will like me to know.
@Thando Sisilana. Go and read the judicial conduct charter of the European Court for human rights. The decorum of that court was mirrored by our own constitutional court in terms of which the advocate is given timeous opportunity to give a road-map for his/her client's case in a form of opening statement. In this case that was not the position the advocate opened his client's case by a question from the judge which clearly contradicts the decorum of fair adjudication. So the advocate as I understand him was insisting on that decorum and the judge was being creative on it. Intellectual superiority is the problem in court proceedings if it's not timely displayed lead to this kind furore when advicates who are not timid will tell a senior judge (black or white) what time is it----- if you know what I mean.
Nope wrong. Did you even watch the actual interaction. Firstly, he didn’t keep quiet and take a seat when the judge started speaking. Secondly, He asserted that the judge’s question was presumptuous. And then preceded to state that he wouldn’t answer the question (bear in mind the questions of the court should be answered). That is very disrespectful of the court! Not the judge but the court, because what he’s basically saying is that he doesn’t care about the judges ruling on the matter of presumptuousness.
Advocates should of course fearlessly pursue their client's best interests even in the face of judicial disapproval, but this conduct crossed the line in that the advocate several times disregarded the judge's instructions.
White judge was angry therefore the matter was adjourned 😮this settlers are undermine black excellency’s, maybe this judge never ever written a affidavits in his life or even argue a matter with another judge.
I had an opportunity of working with Adv. Mokhare SC in various matters. I must say, he's always on point. His arguments are unbelievable, they simply shows the level of wisdom that one has.
"How dare you speak to me like that" The Judge wants to be respected but cant even offer the same respect. Why do judges want to be hailed high like they are gods?
He’s in contempt of court!!
They ARE playing God though
All because he said it was presumptuous?? 😂... I'm gonna be held in contempt all the time.
Insulting the judge is like insulting the court. The judge is almost always a senior advocate, too
Lol not because of that only miss. He failed to respond to, the judge’s requests.
And made a strict assertion that he was not going to answer a question, the judge hasn’t even determined was presumptuous or not!
The Judge is also out of order. He failed to uphold 10 Commandment of a judicial officer, one of which is patience. You don't walk away like that causing unnecessary drama. He literally failed to contain his emotions.
He is the same as Ratha Apartheid Judges mxm
My brother you were correct, the judge must be fair and can’t order you to take your seat and verbally threaten you. As a court he is supposed to be the one who must kept and restore order. He could have adjourned the court and called you to his chambers to solve the matter. In the end another judge had to come to adjourn the case.
Talk back to a judge like that and youre not gonna win your argument.
Even if you provide evidence as facts? Judges should learn to control their emotions and be open to criticism, they are not Gods.
@@eugenemolebatsi1871 Indeed they're not gods, they're human. Moreover, if you're disrespect rises to the level of contempt the judge will treat you and your case with the view if defending the honour of the court. Not a good place to be if you're trying to act in the best interests of your client.
South African judges behave like they Gods, they only human and they should also treat other people with respect.
that is due to ethic of respect the Judiciary order, akukho kini in court, this is a profession of hierarchy, you feel otherwise the are proper channels to address such. Lets not make a court like SA parliament.
Judges behave like across the globe in actual fact our judges are even lenient. Sit this one out.
How dare you speak to me like that? That kind of statement is not edify the law from the judge.
Judges wield too much power..think they above everyone else
This is a case of poor judicial temperament. Judges must restrain themselves under the Judicial Code of Conduct. Counsel has correctly, in my view, taken a stand against such temperament.
Refusing to cooperate with the court. He should be held in contempt.
A black counsel start by defending himself before he or she could actually defend his/her client's case.
I remember this
😂 there was no need for both of them to act up because of egos jurisprudence allows the advocate to apply for the judge to recuse himself with substantiation of course...but I'm guessing throwing a tantrum and leaving isn't judicial practice anyway
Here after advocate Teffo
Tumezoea Ahmednassir Abdullahi hapa Kenya hizo ni ndogo ndogo.
Counsel was out of order
Stop calling them my Lord that is the problem
Something is happening in courts in South Africa iyoooh judges and Advocates iyoooh Baba uNkulunkulu ngenelela ezweni lethu South Africa its really sad.
I WONDER those who make anti adv Mokhari comments have they ever been in motion court proceedings addresing the court directly. Motion court can be ruthless if you allow yourself to be easily bullied by Judges like this "presumptuous " question which was in contention between Adv Mokhari and Judge Murphy the effect of that question was a very dispositive one to the matter if you care to follow those proceedings so Adv Mokhari being a SENIOR COUNSEL was very mindful of answering that " presumptuous " question will have an extinguishing effect on his client's case. When you are in court answer factual questions not subliminal assumptions in the question because you are there to present facts not deductive reasoning. So you must have balls first and experience to lock the judge on facts. Above all advocacy profession is not for those who got timorous souls. How can you potray your intellectual vigour against seasoned judges if you are a timid advocate, intellectual vigour need no person who is afraid to stretch court's decorum when the judge is showing untimely and univited intellectual superiority.
Nonsense, his part, the advocate being in contempt of court was not being of timorous souls according to you?
@@Livermore007 you're intellectually sterile wena I doubt you've ever been to motion court Magistrate nor High Court I doubt you have ever appeared even before tribal authority court ( under tree) and move your client's case
@@fabrigus6405 That is your opinion at large it is meaningless. I don't need to have even a paralegal certificate to have an opinion. You haven't reason with me if you turn to have thee academic know who i am attitude, let alone i need not people like you who are emotionally tied and bias to tell me what courts do. This was not a factual matter if it was be it senior counsel he presented it poorly this happens like to Adv Mpofu for example. Next time punctuate since you thinking western education paper has turned you to a better person who makes judgement on people who you don't even know.
@@Livermore007 The problem started when I attacked the court process you in turn attacked me in your commentary. But in any event I haven't discern any sound and convincing logic from you as to whether the judge can compel an advocate to break sequence of his argument because it ( the argument) can only be convincing and logically once all the argument chain is presented not part thereof. BUT SO FAR YOU HAVE PRESENTED ME WITH AN INCOHERENT AND BALDERDASH COMMENTS WHICH DOES NOT WORTH A DIGNIFIED PROCEDURAL COURT RESPONSE.
You attack a court process which you call factual whereas nothing was factual but a wording technicality (the word was; presumptuous to be precise) followed by your emotions since the is a legal process to deal with a judge that was not far from people like you. Let alone you appear drunk in only your thinking , you were attacking me about my academic stand which by the way you have no knowledge about unless you have some educated guess to what an attack is that you will like me to know.
Judge is the Court, Counsel's conduct does not appear to be consistent with ethic of respect the Judiciary order.
So sad to see Adv Zulu! May his soul rest in peace
What happened to him
@@notafanofpots5244 He was hijacked and killed, check out his story on the online publications, Advocate Mandla Zulu
@@oratile1977 oh! So sad 😞
@Thando Sisilana. Go and read the judicial conduct charter of the European Court for human rights. The decorum of that court was mirrored by our own constitutional court in terms of which the advocate is given timeous opportunity to give a road-map for his/her client's case in a form of opening statement. In this case that was not the position the advocate opened his client's case by a question from the judge which clearly contradicts the decorum of fair adjudication. So the advocate as I understand him was insisting on that decorum and the judge was being creative on it. Intellectual superiority is the problem in court proceedings if it's not timely displayed lead to this kind furore when advicates who are not timid will tell a senior judge (black or white) what time is it----- if you know what I mean.
Nope wrong.
Did you even watch the actual interaction.
Firstly, he didn’t keep quiet and take a seat when the judge started speaking.
Secondly, He asserted that the judge’s question was presumptuous. And then preceded to state that he wouldn’t answer the question (bear in mind the questions of the court should be answered). That is very disrespectful of the court! Not the judge but the court, because what he’s basically saying is that he doesn’t care about the judges ruling on the matter of presumptuousness.
Advocates should of course fearlessly pursue their client's best interests even in the face of judicial disapproval, but this conduct crossed the line in that the advocate several times disregarded the judge's instructions.
kes nabr 246 and 247 gujrat kes
Judge Ratha in 2023 😅😅
White judge was angry therefore the matter was adjourned 😮this settlers are undermine black excellency’s, maybe this judge never ever written a affidavits in his life or even argue a matter with another judge.
Kkkk maFacts
Africans still being judged with bombocrat cocasians is ......
"HOW DARE YOU TO SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT"
That judge has to go back to holland😕
Judge full of himself full of being white