"Never going to get another Zach Edey"... this is all hindsight. The guy was a recruit in the 400s. Also after Carsen Edwards they said we woule never get another Carsen. They said we would never get another Jaden Ivey too. Painter is absurdly elite at identifying talent.
Exactly. He's not exactly recruiting kids in the 200+ range. Most are in or around the top 100, or at least the top 150, with a few exceptions. He's also shown that he's willing to play in the transfer portal if he has the open scholarship to give. Not sure he'll ever get in on some kid trying to get 1mil+ out of a transfer, but he'll likely be able to identify and bring in guys like Jones that can contribute while here.
Sigh I am probably urinating up a rope responding here. Prefacing: I have been intently following BIG bball since I was kid - it's now been 57 years. There are a not a lot of people with more historical knowledge of the BIG. I attended almost every PU game from 1968 until 2017 when my wife's health made having tickets not doable. With all due respect Greg, neither you or Deion, to my knowledge, have ever been in a leadership position where you have been responsible for developing a diverse team of individuals in a complex environment. While I have not doe it in basketball, I did it at work for 40 years so I think I have a pretty experienced=based broad understanding of what MP is talking about. I understand a big part of your job is to stir the pot, but I am confident you grossly misinterpreted Painter's comment. He never said he did not want 5 stars; he never said he was not going to use the portal. The point he was making was he's pretty fixed on recruiting guys that fit his vision of building a team - high basketball IQ; team first players; players who are interested in furthering their education and highly skilled players who have played for coaches who run programs steeped in fundamentals like the dude who coaches Grayson in GA. Guys who are first and foremost looking for a payday are probably not the best fit. I know we'd love to get Tay Kinney, but the OTE philosophy is not the Purdue philosophy. No one on here can rationalize that the OTE players are steeped in fundamentals. Some great talent but that is by no means team-oriented basketball. We are recruiting some other really talented guys - SWA, Steve Reynolds, the two guys from Utah and others. Unlike our friends to the south, we don't splash every recruiting tidbit on X. I'm confident Antoine West will end up being a top 60 player. It's not like we have a ton of playing time to offer either this year or next year. Re player ratings, obviously the top 30 guys are no brainers, but, at the end of the day, It's how they play that counts. You and others can keep jamming the UConn example on us, but, as I have noted before, Spencer, Castle an Newton were, collectively, 7 years older than Smith Loyer and Colvin. I'm confident that if we played those guys 3 on 3 in March of 2026, it would be a lot different matchup than it was last March. Colvin was IN 8'th GRADE, when Cam was a college freshman. The notions that PU fans are complacent and don't know what's going on around the college bball landscape is just ridiculous. I'm confident that our fan base is one of the least provincial in the P4, and to say that MP is not driven like Dan Hurley is also silly. Obviously Conn and IN are worlds apart philosophically about how their state schools fund their athletic departments. Despite its success, UConn has run pretty remarkable fiscal deficits with bball. In 2022 a big chunk of it was Ollie's (sic) settlement, but in 2023 I believe UConn still ran a $10-13 million deficit in its bball program that was funded by the university. Also I believe UConn's bball budget is roughly 3x Purdue's. I love watching UConn. They play tough hard nosed fundamentally sound bball, but from a $$$$ POV, Purdue is never going to spend UConn level dollars. I believe PU is the 11th largest university in the US with a $3.2 billion annual budget, but, right or wrong, the bball program is not the highest priority at Purdue. I guess we'll see how this plays out going forward. I do think our 2026 team has a great chance to make it back to the FF, we will have our entire team back save Furst and will be two deep at every position. I am confident MP knows what he's doing perhaps a bit better than any of us.
I’ve commented pretty much everything you’ve said here at one time or another, from recruiting in today’s AAU landscape to the UConn game. The only thing I would say is that it’s a pretty standard question to ask from Greg more than it is stirring the pot. Painter and co were one step away from the mountain top and there’s a question of what are they willing to do to get another shot. It’s a lot less impactful when you just frame it in just basketball, but the whole philosophical question of would you “sell your soul” to make it is really what it comes down to. Great comment brother, thank you for taking the time to put it out there.
This! Sleepers guys are missing the entire context of his comments. “Built not bought” and full of players who want to be at Purdue, that’s it. Secondly he is getting 4 and 5 star guys, the high school ratings guys just aren’t seeing it the way Painter and staff see it.
“Playing for 2 years down the line” Yet we’re right there in the conversation to win the Big Ten again this year. Not like Purdue is looking to miss the tourney this year. Yes, I expect next season to be an even better season but Purdue is set up just fine this year.
He's built Purdue into the proverbial program that doesn't rebuild, it just reloads. His skill at identifying "company men" who fit the culture and want to be there long term is increasingly unusual in this era, at least among top programs. And it's paying off.
@@andrewb8074 yeah, I’m not one that thinks Painter is a God and will praise everything he does, but he had one short stretch of bad recruiting and that lead to the two miserable seasons after Robbie graduated. Most of those players ended up transferring out (Bryson Scott, Basil Smotherman, Jacob Lawson, Donnie Hale, Kelsey Barlow, Anthony Johnson, Grant Weathetford, Ronnie Johnson) but since then Painter has consistently had a top 25 team in CBB. They’ve been easily the best team in the big 10 over the last decade. Most of their All Conference and All American guys haven’t been top 100 recruits and I believe only 1 was a top 50 recruit (Swanigan). There will never be another Edey, that I agree with, but he will continue to find under recruited guys that he can turn into All Conference players.
The thing is Greg admittedly was saying the same exact thing about Braden Smith before his freshman year. Before the 2022-23 season Greg said “Purdue has no guards.” Now Braden Smith is one of the best PG’s in the country. Go down the line of Braden, Edey, Ivey, Carsen, Trevion, etc. When coming in Greg wouldn’t have been hyping up a single one of those guys!
There's just a lot of context missing here that makes this hard to listen to. First off, there's two top-75 guys in this class in Harris and Jacobsen, not one top-100 guy as Greg confidently proclaims. Had Raleigh Burgess not gotten hurt, he would have easily been a top-100 kid but he's still a top-100 talent (and we're already hearing how good he's looked in the pre-season). Benter and Cox are under the radar guys but by all accounts, Cox looks like a dude and Benter is a lights out shooter.
Yep, all true and good points. We're going to be uptempo and pushing the ball but still very capable in the half court. Let them under estimate us bc it will give Braden and Fletcher motivation.
Not to mention, he didn't have the scholarship to offer a portal transfer this cycle. He can in 2025, but that won't happen until after the season. Not sure why Greg is going off on that considering that fact. If, in 9 months, we have 2 open scholarships and he's not searching the portal, then fine. But that's far from the reality at this point.
I really don’t I understand your argument in this one Greg. About halfway through the video you talk about how expecting 3 -stars to breakout in the way Carsen Edwards did. Yet you’ve also consistently called Braden Smith the best player in the conference/best point guard in the country leading up to this season. Would going out and getting a 23 year old guard help this team again? Sure. But I don’t agree with the idea that every year has to be natty or bust. Getting guys like Harris minutes earlier on will pay great dividends, with the expected outcome of this season (probably being the second weekend) remains the same regardless.
Deion is a fool. He’s acting like painter should be ashamed for getting beat in the national championship instead of saying he’s looking to get back there. Dear God, last season was a successful season. 1 team of the 350+ D1 teams wins the national title each year.
What choice did Knight have back then? However, the '87 championship team had two juco starters, which was akin to the portal, since both were upperclassmen.
@@jonesindy100 Maybe not, but nobody is saying they can't be either. The key is identifying talent, skill, fit at a young age, and not only developing, but retaining that talent. One thing that isn't mentioned much is there's been little to no attrition on Purdue's roster since the portal has been introduced. Sure we saw a few grad transfers leave, but that's different than recruiting a talented kid, then seeing them leave after a year or two. You'll also notice that the transfers that Painter pursues are largely upperclassmen as well. I don't that's a coincidence.
What was Zach Edey, Braden smith? Outside of the top 100... like when exception becomes reality every year, is it really exceptions or is he just better than others at evaluating talent
Exactly. Do these guys look at Tom Brady and say "meh, 6th round draft pick"? With some coaches/managers you have to throw projections/ratings out the window, because they really are the smartest people in the room.
The issue I have with this is acting like Zach Edey is the only under the radar recruit to have a lot of success in a Purdue uniform. He may be the most dramatic example of that, but Painter has found tons of these 3 star range guys that end up being 1st team All Big Ten good. Painter has shown that he is able to do this consistently. And after you recruit these guys, the other part of it is developing them. Purdue is arguably the best development program in the country, and the guys that are developing them aren't going anywhere any time soon. You've got your top two Assistants in Brandon Brantley and Terry Johnson that have been made very comfortable staying where they are, and if they were really looking to move on and get a better job somewhere else, they have had plenty of opportunities to do so. They choose not to. And then even beyond that, you've got several younger assistants deep on the bench that were players for Matt Painter in PJ Thompson, Sasha Stefanovic, Tommy Luce, Jared Wulbrun, etc. Painter has essentially groomed them over the better part of a decade to be able to contribute into his staff in a way that works year in year out. He's got a pipeline of these guys. So until something drastic changes, Purdue isn't going away any time soon
Painter has gone after high level recruits along with the fringe top 100 players and 3 stars. He can't force those kids to come to Purdue. He went after Catchings last year and it didn't work out. The years before he went after Xavier Booker, Jalen Washington, Bruce Thornton and Harrison Ingram. He went after those guys hard in recent years and was involved late into the proceeds for them. They went elsewhere and that is fine. I am excited about the incoming class and I am not going to complain about Painter making the sweet 16 or better in 5 of the last 7 tournaments. The first round losses suck but even the guys getting the high level recruits have had those.
Also think painter will use the portal as he sees fit. Wants to get his young guys in to continue culture and supplement via the portal. Painter has shown ability to pivot and learn as he goes. I imagine he will get the guys your talking about but he’s not gonna compromise the culture to suit the needs of 18-22 year old, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that
Real tough listen guys. This isn’t journalism, this is non sensical speculative spewing. Greg is better than this. The other guy shouldn’t even be on the show.
I understand going after talent, but when you keep saying stuff can’t be repeated and relied on (bringing in 3* players and developing them) and it keeps happening. I begin to question that line of questioning. Not saying I wouldn’t have loved to see catchings/haralson come to Purdue. Would love that especially since they are Indiana kids but you have to put at least a little trust in what painter has done in recent years.
Its so ironic, purdue doesnt need 4 and 5 star blue bloods. Two 3 stars brought them to the NCAA championship last year, ahead of all those schools with the 4 and 5 stars. I'll take painter's 3 stars because he always does this. He has always taken unknowns and made them stars.
If Greg wants to prove he isn't anti Purdue then the next video involving Uconn/Hurley he needs to mention Maryland and New Mexico state. The two teams Hurley lost to in the first round in back to back years. He never fails to mention FDU or St. Peters when discussing Purdue/Painter. The fact he doesn't do this with Hurley or Calipari or really anyone else says he is full of it!
Painter won't promise playing time, and Purdue is unlikely to start offering 7 figures for recruits. So the whole 5-star thing is pretty much out unless a guy really buys into the culture to start with
He's not going to give them the guarantee they want. Catchings didn't come because he wanted a guaranteed starting role. The thing I'm always wondering about these top recruits is why they need guarantees if they think they're that good? We've heard plenty of stories where they do get it from a coach, then end up coming off the bench and eventually transfer, or impact team chemistry.
@@mdiekhoff Ivey didnt start, but bought in and was playing big mins/starting mid season. In Coach speak, Painter respects the guy who 'you cant keep out of the gym.'
I wonder how many of the dudes on social media who rag Paint about “not getting it,” he’s going to become extinct, etc. have ever been in any sort of leadership role where they have had to balance culture against potentially disruptive personalities? It’s probably like
As a Purdue fan, I kind of agree with these takes. It's annoying that we are acting like we won the championship after we got ran in the championship game last year. There is context, though, in that we had been trying to get over the final four hump for decades, and it finally happened. Sometimes you have to just enjoy life, even if that means celebrating a triple rather than a home run. I don't think we celebrate like this if we make the championship game again this year without winning it. On the recruiting front, I also kind of agree, but also think there is context. Purdue has a huge roster and a history of keeping its players. For high school recruiting, it was always going to be an uphill battle recruiting five stars or high four stars given there is no guarantee any of them would start next year, and those high level guys need to show out to make it to the league. On the transfer portal, almost the same thing. Look at the guys in the transfer portal and the current roster and say who exactly Purdue needed based on Purdue's current roster.. its not that clear cut what Purdue should have done. You aren't trying to replace Braden. You look at the shooting guards in the portal and you maybe only take the top 6 or 7 guys over Loyer? And relying on getting them is a risk, both in that everyone is fighting for them, and you can mess up team chemistry. Looking at the three spot, that's probably an area where you can maybe make moves, but, again, Purdue has two guys that could break out and be better than each of the available transfers, but that have chemistry within Purdue's system. You only need one of those guys to break out, too, which makes sense to stand pat there. At the four, I don't think there's anyone in portal I would take over TKR given TKR's hunger and experience within Purdue's system. Center is probably the spot I would have looked to the portal, if anywhere. Purdue is hurt there for obvious reasons. But there are reasons to be positive with Jacobsen, who is an exciting recruit by any reasonable measure, and Berg, who is an unknown commodity.
10:41 he’s spot on. I’ve been watching Purdue since painter took over as a 2005 alum (and grew up on Denny Crum hoops in the 80s in my hometown of Louisville). The best ever Purdue team under Painter was 2010 and if Hummel doesn’t get injured we might win it all. Instead we lost to 1 seed Duke in the S16 in Houston. I was there as I live in Houston.
I think for Painter, he tried that after the Baby Boilers. He changed his recruiting style or type, and it didn't work. So he is a bit hesitant to change it again
“You’re not going to get lucky finding a guy who develops into a star like Zach Edey again” And then minutes later you point out that Painter did the same thing with Jaden Ivey and Carsen Edwards who had them a heartbeat from a Final Four. Oh and their current point guard is an under recruited player who you all just ranked the best player in the Big Ten…so what exactly is your argument here? I love how it’s 2024 and folks STILL haven’t realized that there is so much more to winning basketball than just looking at recruiting rankings. The same things we applaud Painter for being absolutely elite at you’re somehow spinning into a bad thing. It’s just soooo silly
Last summer everyone criticized Paint for not using the portal enough, saying that Jones wasn't enough. Now you are saying that Paint has to use the portal, and that Jones was the only reason we had a good season! Jones was a great player, but he's not an NBA caliber player, and he was recruited because he had the attitude and work ethic that Paint was looking for, not because he was a super star. Paint hasn't wanted to use the portal; he prefers to find the right players for his program and then develop them. Also don't forget that Smith was pretty much unrecruited out of high school as well and you are talking now about how special he is. He looks for the right guys for his program. The portal has changed the game, but I honestly think (and hope) that there will continue be coaches who want to play the long game with their players and end up still succeeding, but that remains to be seen
Always nice to hear Greggg knows more than MP Whatever happens we will get good kids who graduate play hard How are you predicting a top finish and building for next year ? Which one is it?
It'll be interesting to see IU/Purdue games this coming year. with IU able to field a team with a ton of playing experience, with a fair number of upperclassmen and portal players and Purdue having half of their roster being underclassmen. Woodson though is hitting the high school recruiting hard right now and hasn't given up on getting those kids.
Edey became a great player do to the Purdue system of developing big men...his class this yr is solid...4&5 star kids dont lead to national championships.
For all the IU trolls on here ragging about Edey not winning, to my knowledge IU is the only team in the history of the tournament to not make out of the SS w 2 of the top 4 draft picks.
My rebuttal to this would be that Painter would be potentially sacrificing the culture he has built to get boat raced in NIL deals by programs that bring in way more money and have way longer history of national notoriety. Also there’s a notable amount of guys in the top 100 who are playing shit AAU ball and picking up bad habits on and off the court. I’d imagine it’s more enticing to a 17 year old to go play somewhere he can dribble the air out of the ball and be a one and done than relearn how to play basketball and potentially sit behind a guy who is going to be playing in Europe post grad.
I don't love the statement or many Purdue fans acting satisfied with just getting close, but it's worth remembering Purdue will never have the NIL money or blue blood brand of another school in the state so finding hidden talents lower in the recruiting rankings is a much more realistic path for them than hoping guys turn down hundreds of thousands of dollars just to go play for the better coach and live in West Lafayette
My thoughts exactly. The rankings are also pretty bullshit outside of the top some odd recruits. Saying Burgess isn’t an elite get because he got injured proves as much.
Listen all that quote is saying is that he’s not changing what got him there. He’s always tried to get the best players he believes are the best for his program. He puts guys in the NBA and he misses on guys that went to the NBA. You need to relax
It’s funny you bring up how important of a pick up Lance Jones was after you and Carter trashed him all year last season. Sorry if we don’t take what you say to heart.
@@anthonylennen4067 Bama gave UConn a way better fight than us and UConn’s coach is the one with the swagger I wish Paint had…watch his most recent practice on RUclips. He’s not talking about “I have the players who did it”… he’s saying “ he doesn’t care that they just won back to back nattys” and running them into the freaking ground at practice. That’s the Difference in swagger ok talking about
@@tkamel18 sounds like you need to call up Bobinski and Berghoff and demand a meeting with them to teach them a thing or two about how to coach college bball.
I see what Greg is saying and just about every coach would go buy some players in Painter's position. Painter will use the portal but he will use it to compliment the team. Painter is not going to just cut a check to get someone to come to Purdue, unfortunately.
I think Painter made a bad error with Kanon Catchings. with Catchings they had a chance at a return to the national championship game. theres no question there chances were good. not so much now
What bad error? Not guaranteeing he'd start? Guess I'll never quite understand why that's needed for elite prospects. Catchings should have expected and embraced competition at his position if he really wants to make it at the next level beyond his first contract.
@@Talking_Comics I agree with that. But he will continue to turn 3star and low end 4star, under recruited, guys into All Conference players and even some All Americans. Edey is a unicorn, there will never be another. However Braden, Trevion, Carsen, Ivey, Vince Edwards, etc all were under recruited guys ranked outside the top 100. He’s proven time and time again he can replicate the success he had with those guys.
Purdue is trying to be MSU but they just don’t have the cache.. 1 Final 4 with an obvious outlier isn’t the same as 8 Final 4s and a Natty from Izzo.. There’s only 1 Tom Izzo
Then get Zach Edey again. Without Edey your current roster would’ve struggled to get to a S16 last season 😂 dumbest quote ever and exactly why Painter will never win it all. Cheat codes and 3 stars can only get you so far.
I think Purdue fans aren’t going to like hearing this and this is not to say Greg is 100% right but to the larger point is when college coaches don’t adapt then it’s way more of an up hill climb to have success year in and year out . Painter has found the “secret” to just college basketball. Keep your guys for multiple years and good things will happen. He didn’t luck into any of these players but Edey and Carsen going from 3 stars to nba talent is not really a formula that can be repeated over and over again. ppl forget the early 2010s after Hummel was a lot of mediocrity and calling for Painters job and if Biggie stays committed to MSU who knows where he would be. Long rant but to the larger point. If he’s willing to run it like it has been then it’s going to be more of a climb to the top
Also have to keep in mind that Purdue landed a lot of talent (at least according to recruiting services) that simply didn't fit at Purdue in those years after Moore, JJ, and Hummel left. Wasn't until he re-evaluated his approach, focusing more on fit and skill than just rankings, that he started finding success again. Sure Biggie came during that time, but we still had a decent amount of talent on those rosters outside of him which was evident after the 2 years he was here.
@@mdiekhoff they were bringing in some talent but nothing special. Nothing different from their normal approach of low top 100 guys and 3 stars. The benefit that Purdue has had since the 14’ class is sustainable rosters each year. Bringing in solid talent but get them to stay for 3+ years. The staying is the biggest thing. However the point is if Painter doesn’t not adapt to a more NIL and portal centric of recruiting what happens if those 3-4 players don’t stay? Not saying it’s not good process because it’s a great college culture. Having a big recruiting class, unless it super high end talent (see Duke, Kentucky) is no longer a benefit
Painter’s 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest rated recruits ever are on the current roster per 247.
"Never going to get another Zach Edey"... this is all hindsight. The guy was a recruit in the 400s.
Also after Carsen Edwards they said we woule never get another Carsen. They said we would never get another Jaden Ivey too. Painter is absurdly elite at identifying talent.
Exactly. He's not exactly recruiting kids in the 200+ range. Most are in or around the top 100, or at least the top 150, with a few exceptions. He's also shown that he's willing to play in the transfer portal if he has the open scholarship to give. Not sure he'll ever get in on some kid trying to get 1mil+ out of a transfer, but he'll likely be able to identify and bring in guys like Jones that can contribute while here.
Sigh I am probably urinating up a rope responding here. Prefacing: I have been intently following BIG bball since I was kid - it's now been 57 years. There are a not a lot of people with more historical knowledge of the BIG. I attended almost every PU game from 1968 until 2017 when my wife's health made having tickets not doable. With all due respect Greg, neither you or Deion, to my knowledge, have ever been in a leadership position where you have been responsible for developing a diverse team of individuals in a complex environment. While I have not doe it in basketball, I did it at work for 40 years so I think I have a pretty experienced=based broad understanding of what MP is talking about.
I understand a big part of your job is to stir the pot, but I am confident you grossly misinterpreted Painter's comment. He never said he did not want 5 stars; he never said he was not going to use the portal. The point he was making was he's pretty fixed on recruiting guys that fit his vision of building a team - high basketball IQ; team first players; players who are interested in furthering their education and highly skilled players who have played for coaches who run programs steeped in fundamentals like the dude who coaches Grayson in GA. Guys who are first and foremost looking for a payday are probably not the best fit.
I know we'd love to get Tay Kinney, but the OTE philosophy is not the Purdue philosophy. No one on here can rationalize that the OTE players are steeped in fundamentals. Some great talent but that is by no means team-oriented basketball. We are recruiting some other really talented guys - SWA, Steve Reynolds, the two guys from Utah and others. Unlike our friends to the south, we don't splash every recruiting tidbit on X. I'm confident Antoine West will end up being a top 60 player. It's not like we have a ton of playing time to offer either this year or next year.
Re player ratings, obviously the top 30 guys are no brainers, but, at the end of the day, It's how they play that counts. You and others can keep jamming the UConn example on us, but, as I have noted before, Spencer, Castle an Newton were, collectively, 7 years older than Smith Loyer and Colvin. I'm confident that if we played those guys 3 on 3 in March of 2026, it would be a lot different matchup than it was last March. Colvin was IN 8'th GRADE, when Cam was a college freshman.
The notions that PU fans are complacent and don't know what's going on around the college bball landscape is just ridiculous. I'm confident that our fan base is one of the least provincial in the P4, and to say that MP is not driven like Dan Hurley is also silly. Obviously Conn and IN are worlds apart philosophically about how their state schools fund their athletic departments. Despite its success, UConn has run pretty remarkable fiscal deficits with bball. In 2022 a big chunk of it was Ollie's (sic) settlement, but in 2023 I believe UConn still ran a $10-13 million deficit in its bball program that was funded by the university. Also I believe UConn's bball budget is roughly 3x Purdue's.
I love watching UConn. They play tough hard nosed fundamentally sound bball, but from a $$$$ POV, Purdue is never going to spend UConn level dollars. I believe PU is the 11th largest university in the US with a $3.2 billion annual budget, but, right or wrong, the bball program is not the highest priority at Purdue. I guess we'll see how this plays out going forward. I do think our 2026 team has a great chance to make it back to the FF, we will have our entire team back save Furst and will be two deep at every position. I am confident MP knows what he's doing perhaps a bit better than any of us.
I’ve commented pretty much everything you’ve said here at one time or another, from recruiting in today’s AAU landscape to the UConn game. The only thing I would say is that it’s a pretty standard question to ask from Greg more than it is stirring the pot. Painter and co were one step away from the mountain top and there’s a question of what are they willing to do to get another shot. It’s a lot less impactful when you just frame it in just basketball, but the whole philosophical question of would you “sell your soul” to make it is really what it comes down to. Great comment brother, thank you for taking the time to put it out there.
This! Sleepers guys are missing the entire context of his comments. “Built not bought” and full of players who want to be at Purdue, that’s it.
Secondly he is getting 4 and 5 star guys, the high school ratings guys just aren’t seeing it the way Painter and staff see it.
“Playing for 2 years down the line”
Yet we’re right there in the conversation to win the Big Ten again this year. Not like Purdue is looking to miss the tourney this year. Yes, I expect next season to be an even better season but Purdue is set up just fine this year.
He's built Purdue into the proverbial program that doesn't rebuild, it just reloads. His skill at identifying "company men" who fit the culture and want to be there long term is increasingly unusual in this era, at least among top programs. And it's paying off.
@@andrewb8074 yeah, I’m not one that thinks Painter is a God and will praise everything he does, but he had one short stretch of bad recruiting and that lead to the two miserable seasons after Robbie graduated. Most of those players ended up transferring out (Bryson Scott, Basil Smotherman, Jacob Lawson, Donnie Hale, Kelsey Barlow, Anthony Johnson, Grant Weathetford, Ronnie Johnson) but since then Painter has consistently had a top 25 team in CBB. They’ve been easily the best team in the big 10 over the last decade. Most of their All Conference and All American guys haven’t been top 100 recruits and I believe only 1 was a top 50 recruit (Swanigan). There will never be another Edey, that I agree with, but he will continue to find under recruited guys that he can turn into All Conference players.
The thing is Greg admittedly was saying the same exact thing about Braden Smith before his freshman year. Before the 2022-23 season Greg said “Purdue has no guards.” Now Braden Smith is one of the best PG’s in the country. Go down the line of Braden, Edey, Ivey, Carsen, Trevion, etc. When coming in Greg wouldn’t have been hyping up a single one of those guys!
There's just a lot of context missing here that makes this hard to listen to. First off, there's two top-75 guys in this class in Harris and Jacobsen, not one top-100 guy as Greg confidently proclaims. Had Raleigh Burgess not gotten hurt, he would have easily been a top-100 kid but he's still a top-100 talent (and we're already hearing how good he's looked in the pre-season). Benter and Cox are under the radar guys but by all accounts, Cox looks like a dude and Benter is a lights out shooter.
Yep, all true and good points. We're going to be uptempo and pushing the ball but still very capable in the half court. Let them under estimate us bc it will give Braden and Fletcher motivation.
Not to mention, he didn't have the scholarship to offer a portal transfer this cycle. He can in 2025, but that won't happen until after the season. Not sure why Greg is going off on that considering that fact.
If, in 9 months, we have 2 open scholarships and he's not searching the portal, then fine. But that's far from the reality at this point.
Jacobsen is a 3 star ranked 128 on 247s composite rankings, which combines Rivals, 247, and ESPNs rankings into one “average” ranking..
@@Frankie12525do you really think there are 125 guys better/w more upside?
@@anthonylennen4067 i think he’s going to be pretty good but speaking about rankings he isn’t top 100
I really don’t I understand your argument in this one Greg. About halfway through the video you talk about how expecting 3 -stars to breakout in the way Carsen Edwards did. Yet you’ve also consistently called Braden Smith the best player in the conference/best point guard in the country leading up to this season.
Would going out and getting a 23 year old guard help this team again? Sure. But I don’t agree with the idea that every year has to be natty or bust. Getting guys like Harris minutes earlier on will pay great dividends, with the expected outcome of this season (probably being the second weekend) remains the same regardless.
Deion is a fool. He’s acting like painter should be ashamed for getting beat in the national championship instead of saying he’s looking to get back there. Dear God, last season was a successful season. 1 team of the 350+ D1 teams wins the national title each year.
If Squeaky were an actual IU fan he would know Bobby built IU that way
Boehline recruited the same guys MP did
Lavert
Edwards
Simpson
Robinson
Irvin
What choice did Knight have back then? However, the '87 championship team had two juco starters, which was akin to the portal, since both were upperclassmen.
College basketball rosters arent built the same it was under Knight or even a couple years ago.
@@jonesindy100 Maybe not, but nobody is saying they can't be either. The key is identifying talent, skill, fit at a young age, and not only developing, but retaining that talent.
One thing that isn't mentioned much is there's been little to no attrition on Purdue's roster since the portal has been introduced. Sure we saw a few grad transfers leave, but that's different than recruiting a talented kid, then seeing them leave after a year or two. You'll also notice that the transfers that Painter pursues are largely upperclassmen as well. I don't that's a coincidence.
I trust Painter more than Greg!
What was Zach Edey, Braden smith? Outside of the top 100... like when exception becomes reality every year, is it really exceptions or is he just better than others at evaluating talent
Exactly. Do these guys look at Tom Brady and say "meh, 6th round draft pick"? With some coaches/managers you have to throw projections/ratings out the window, because they really are the smartest people in the room.
hmmm braden smith.... 3 star recruit.. somehow is your #1 guy in the big ten
Greg keeps confusing graduate transfers for portal transfers. if there were no portal Lance Jones would have still been at purdue.
The issue I have with this is acting like Zach Edey is the only under the radar recruit to have a lot of success in a Purdue uniform. He may be the most dramatic example of that, but Painter has found tons of these 3 star range guys that end up being 1st team All Big Ten good. Painter has shown that he is able to do this consistently. And after you recruit these guys, the other part of it is developing them. Purdue is arguably the best development program in the country, and the guys that are developing them aren't going anywhere any time soon. You've got your top two Assistants in Brandon Brantley and Terry Johnson that have been made very comfortable staying where they are, and if they were really looking to move on and get a better job somewhere else, they have had plenty of opportunities to do so. They choose not to. And then even beyond that, you've got several younger assistants deep on the bench that were players for Matt Painter in PJ Thompson, Sasha Stefanovic, Tommy Luce, Jared Wulbrun, etc. Painter has essentially groomed them over the better part of a decade to be able to contribute into his staff in a way that works year in year out. He's got a pipeline of these guys. So until something drastic changes, Purdue isn't going away any time soon
I think you are missing his recruiting strategy
Painter has gone after high level recruits along with the fringe top 100 players and 3 stars. He can't force those kids to come to Purdue. He went after Catchings last year and it didn't work out. The years before he went after Xavier Booker, Jalen Washington, Bruce Thornton and Harrison Ingram. He went after those guys hard in recent years and was involved late into the proceeds for them. They went elsewhere and that is fine. I am excited about the incoming class and I am not going to complain about Painter making the sweet 16 or better in 5 of the last 7 tournaments. The first round losses suck but even the guys getting the high level recruits have had those.
Also think painter will use the portal as he sees fit. Wants to get his young guys in to continue culture and supplement via the portal. Painter has shown ability to pivot and learn as he goes. I imagine he will get the guys your talking about but he’s not gonna compromise the culture to suit the needs of 18-22 year old, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that
Real tough listen guys. This isn’t journalism, this is non sensical speculative spewing. Greg is better than this. The other guy shouldn’t even be on the show.
Greg loves to argue with success.
I understand going after talent, but when you keep saying stuff can’t be repeated and relied on (bringing in 3* players and developing them) and it keeps happening. I begin to question that line of questioning. Not saying I wouldn’t have loved to see catchings/haralson come to Purdue. Would love that especially since they are Indiana kids but you have to put at least a little trust in what painter has done in recent years.
Its so ironic, purdue doesnt need 4 and 5 star blue bloods. Two 3 stars brought them to the NCAA championship last year, ahead of all those schools with the 4 and 5 stars. I'll take painter's 3 stars because he always does this. He has always taken unknowns and made them stars.
If Greg wants to prove he isn't anti Purdue then the next video involving Uconn/Hurley he needs to mention Maryland and New Mexico state. The two teams Hurley lost to in the first round in back to back years. He never fails to mention FDU or St. Peters when discussing Purdue/Painter. The fact he doesn't do this with Hurley or Calipari or really anyone else says he is full of it!
Purdue wins the big 10 again. See y'all again same time next year
I think Painter is somewhat scared of doing the blue blood recruiting thing, it not working, and then you lose your culture
Painter won't promise playing time, and Purdue is unlikely to start offering 7 figures for recruits. So the whole 5-star thing is pretty much out unless a guy really buys into the culture to start with
@@brandonskalsky5484 exactly
He's not going to give them the guarantee they want. Catchings didn't come because he wanted a guaranteed starting role.
The thing I'm always wondering about these top recruits is why they need guarantees if they think they're that good? We've heard plenty of stories where they do get it from a coach, then end up coming off the bench and eventually transfer, or impact team chemistry.
@@mdiekhoff Ivey didnt start, but bought in and was playing big mins/starting mid season. In Coach speak, Painter respects the guy who 'you cant keep out of the gym.'
I wonder how many of the dudes on social media who rag Paint about “not getting it,” he’s going to become extinct, etc. have ever been in any sort of leadership role where they have had to balance culture against potentially disruptive personalities? It’s probably like
Didn’t Michigan get back to another national title in the 6 year window your referring to?
As a Purdue fan, I kind of agree with these takes.
It's annoying that we are acting like we won the championship after we got ran in the championship game last year. There is context, though, in that we had been trying to get over the final four hump for decades, and it finally happened. Sometimes you have to just enjoy life, even if that means celebrating a triple rather than a home run. I don't think we celebrate like this if we make the championship game again this year without winning it.
On the recruiting front, I also kind of agree, but also think there is context. Purdue has a huge roster and a history of keeping its players. For high school recruiting, it was always going to be an uphill battle recruiting five stars or high four stars given there is no guarantee any of them would start next year, and those high level guys need to show out to make it to the league. On the transfer portal, almost the same thing. Look at the guys in the transfer portal and the current roster and say who exactly Purdue needed based on Purdue's current roster.. its not that clear cut what Purdue should have done. You aren't trying to replace Braden. You look at the shooting guards in the portal and you maybe only take the top 6 or 7 guys over Loyer? And relying on getting them is a risk, both in that everyone is fighting for them, and you can mess up team chemistry. Looking at the three spot, that's probably an area where you can maybe make moves, but, again, Purdue has two guys that could break out and be better than each of the available transfers, but that have chemistry within Purdue's system. You only need one of those guys to break out, too, which makes sense to stand pat there. At the four, I don't think there's anyone in portal I would take over TKR given TKR's hunger and experience within Purdue's system. Center is probably the spot I would have looked to the portal, if anywhere. Purdue is hurt there for obvious reasons. But there are reasons to be positive with Jacobsen, who is an exciting recruit by any reasonable measure, and Berg, who is an unknown commodity.
10:41 he’s spot on. I’ve been watching Purdue since painter took over as a 2005 alum (and grew up on Denny Crum hoops in the 80s in my hometown of Louisville). The best ever Purdue team under Painter was 2010 and if Hummel doesn’t get injured we might win it all. Instead we lost to 1 seed Duke in the S16 in Houston. I was there as I live in Houston.
I think for Painter, he tried that after the Baby Boilers. He changed his recruiting style or type, and it didn't work. So he is a bit hesitant to change it again
keep mentioning coach JB like we didn’t miss out on high recruits a ton (jaylen brown, mo bamba, devin booker, cassius winston, etc)
Want Carter back
“You’re not going to get lucky finding a guy who develops into a star like Zach Edey again”
And then minutes later you point out that Painter did the same thing with Jaden Ivey and Carsen Edwards who had them a heartbeat from a Final Four.
Oh and their current point guard is an under recruited player who you all just ranked the best player in the Big Ten…so what exactly is your argument here?
I love how it’s 2024 and folks STILL haven’t realized that there is so much more to winning basketball than just looking at recruiting rankings. The same things we applaud Painter for being absolutely elite at you’re somehow spinning into a bad thing. It’s just soooo silly
Last summer everyone criticized Paint for not using the portal enough, saying that Jones wasn't enough. Now you are saying that Paint has to use the portal, and that Jones was the only reason we had a good season! Jones was a great player, but he's not an NBA caliber player, and he was recruited because he had the attitude and work ethic that Paint was looking for, not because he was a super star. Paint hasn't wanted to use the portal; he prefers to find the right players for his program and then develop them. Also don't forget that Smith was pretty much unrecruited out of high school as well and you are talking now about how special he is. He looks for the right guys for his program. The portal has changed the game, but I honestly think (and hope) that there will continue be coaches who want to play the long game with their players and end up still succeeding, but that remains to be seen
Always nice to hear Greggg knows more than MP
Whatever happens we will get good kids who graduate play hard
How are you predicting a top finish and building for next year ? Which one is it?
It'll be interesting to see IU/Purdue games this coming year. with IU able to field a team with a ton of playing experience, with a fair number of upperclassmen and portal players and Purdue having half of their roster being underclassmen. Woodson though is hitting the high school recruiting hard right now and hasn't given up on getting those kids.
Keep in mind this is just greg and his little side kick.
Now hit the like button.
I remember when IU had a coach that didn’t want to change
Edey became a great player do to the Purdue system of developing big men...his class this yr is solid...4&5 star kids dont lead to national championships.
For all the IU trolls on here ragging about Edey not winning, to my knowledge IU is the only team in the history of the tournament to not make out of the SS w 2 of the top 4 draft picks.
My rebuttal to this would be that Painter would be potentially sacrificing the culture he has built to get boat raced in NIL deals by programs that bring in way more money and have way longer history of national notoriety. Also there’s a notable amount of guys in the top 100 who are playing shit AAU ball and picking up bad habits on and off the court. I’d imagine it’s more enticing to a 17 year old to go play somewhere he can dribble the air out of the ball and be a one and done than relearn how to play basketball and potentially sit behind a guy who is going to be playing in Europe post grad.
I don't love the statement or many Purdue fans acting satisfied with just getting close, but it's worth remembering Purdue will never have the NIL money or blue blood brand of another school in the state so finding hidden talents lower in the recruiting rankings is a much more realistic path for them than hoping guys turn down hundreds of thousands of dollars just to go play for the better coach and live in West Lafayette
My thoughts exactly. The rankings are also pretty bullshit outside of the top some odd recruits. Saying Burgess isn’t an elite get because he got injured proves as much.
It is not about talent, or stars. He is looking for mentality and winning personalities.
Listen all that quote is saying is that he’s not changing what got him there. He’s always tried to get the best players he believes are the best for his program. He puts guys in the NBA and he misses on guys that went to the NBA. You need to relax
Greg pretending Izzo doesn’t have a Natty and 8 Final 4s which is the same as Michigan’s entire Program history is so cute… You’re cute Greg 😂
It’s funny you bring up how important of a pick up Lance Jones was after you and Carter trashed him all year last season. Sorry if we don’t take what you say to heart.
..man, take a breath Greg..sheesh!
This has to be rage bait but I guess that is a lot of the content these guys put out.
It’s a legit point of conversation but Purdue fans find it outrageous at the moment because we have had an extremely lovable and successful team.
13:45 exactly. Painter is fine with getting blown out in the natty 😂 no fucking swagger. I was there and pissed after 😂
How did all that swagger work for Shannon, Dmsask, Mark Sears and the Bama five stars vs UConn?
@@anthonylennen4067 it worked for Hurley 😂 😭😂
@@anthonylennen4067 Bama gave UConn a way better fight than us and UConn’s coach is the one with the swagger I wish Paint had…watch his most recent practice on RUclips. He’s not talking about “I have the players who did it”… he’s saying “ he doesn’t care that they just won back to back nattys” and running them into the freaking ground at practice. That’s the Difference in swagger ok talking about
@@tkamel18 sounds like you need to call up Bobinski and Berghoff and demand a meeting with them to teach them a thing or two about how to coach college bball.
@@anthonylennen4067 👍🏼
what has happened to carter?
I see what Greg is saying and just about every coach would go buy some players in Painter's position. Painter will use the portal but he will use it to compliment the team. Painter is not going to just cut a check to get someone to come to Purdue, unfortunately.
Squeaky DeeKy is IU skip bayless?😮
this entire video was a swing and a miss Greg
I think Painter made a bad error with Kanon Catchings. with Catchings they had a chance at a return to the national championship game. theres no question there chances were good. not so much now
What bad error? Not guaranteeing he'd start? Guess I'll never quite understand why that's needed for elite prospects. Catchings should have expected and embraced competition at his position if he really wants to make it at the next level beyond his first contract.
Painter is not going to find another 3-star that becomes a 2x NPOY again. What got them there is not replicable
@@Talking_Comics I agree with that. But he will continue to turn 3star and low end 4star, under recruited, guys into All Conference players and even some All Americans. Edey is a unicorn, there will never be another. However Braden, Trevion, Carsen, Ivey, Vince Edwards, etc all were under recruited guys ranked outside the top 100. He’s proven time and time again he can replicate the success he had with those guys.
Would love to see Berg prove all you negative natering naybobs wrong.
Purdue is trying to be MSU but they just don’t have the cache.. 1 Final 4 with an obvious outlier isn’t the same as 8 Final 4s and a Natty from Izzo.. There’s only 1 Tom Izzo
Then get Zach Edey again. Without Edey your current roster would’ve struggled to get to a S16 last season 😂 dumbest quote ever and exactly why Painter will never win it all. Cheat codes and 3 stars can only get you so far.
I think Purdue fans aren’t going to like hearing this and this is not to say Greg is 100% right but to the larger point is when college coaches don’t adapt then it’s way more of an up hill climb to have success year in and year out .
Painter has found the “secret” to just college basketball. Keep your guys for multiple years and good things will happen. He didn’t luck into any of these players but Edey and Carsen going from 3 stars to nba talent is not really a formula that can be repeated over and over again.
ppl forget the early 2010s after Hummel was a lot of mediocrity and calling for Painters job and if Biggie stays committed to MSU who knows where he would be.
Long rant but to the larger point. If he’s willing to run it like it has been then it’s going to be more of a climb to the top
Also have to keep in mind that Purdue landed a lot of talent (at least according to recruiting services) that simply didn't fit at Purdue in those years after Moore, JJ, and Hummel left. Wasn't until he re-evaluated his approach, focusing more on fit and skill than just rankings, that he started finding success again. Sure Biggie came during that time, but we still had a decent amount of talent on those rosters outside of him which was evident after the 2 years he was here.
@@mdiekhoff they were bringing in some talent but nothing special. Nothing different from their normal approach of low top 100 guys and 3 stars.
The benefit that Purdue has had since the 14’ class is sustainable rosters each year. Bringing in solid talent but get them to stay for 3+ years. The staying is the biggest thing.
However the point is if Painter doesn’t not adapt to a more NIL and portal centric of recruiting what happens if those 3-4 players don’t stay?
Not saying it’s not good process because it’s a great college culture. Having a big recruiting class, unless it super high end talent (see Duke, Kentucky) is no longer a benefit