Ted- great analysis of liability! I 100% agree with your thinking!👍😊. Once you touch it you own it….. plus the original installer that did it wrong can then blame you for his errors. If you’re going to do it….do it right! Or don’t do it at all.
Ted is the reason why I always do my calls correctly and right the first time, leaving nothing to chance. I've learned tools of the trade from you, and appreciate it. Also to anyone not in hvac: there's not enough of us techs around to make this trade super competitive, so its best to share what we've learned with eachother
Just wanted to say this 20 year HVAC technician really enjoys watching your content!.... The knowledge you're putting out in your videos is definitely giving back to the HVAC community and trade. Thank You! I hope that you continue to share the knowledge you've gained over the years of being out in the field.
The nest thermostat had me down for a few hours as well. I replaced it with a Honeywell programmable and haven’t looked back. Nice video and explanation.
I agree with you Ted. As sue happy as the world is today, you really need to cover your rear in situations like that. All it would take is a leak to destroy the house over a weekend when they aren't at home and damage the ceiling then the floor and then 1st floor ceiling and floor. We have had water leak when a warranty company put a new coil in, and replaced the pan but didn't realize that the pan they installed was too small because of the condensating furnace and didn't extend under its drain. They put a hairline crack in the drain on the furnace and come winter it was draining all over the ceiling in a guest room that wasn't used very much. That was a multi thousand dollar repair that they had to eat.
The liability speech reminds me of a call I had years ago where an out of town HVAC tech, that was a member of an HVAC forum I participated in, recommended me to a friend of his for a condensate issue. When I got there it was an old AllStyle all in one coil in the attic of a 2 story house, with no emergency drain pan, extremely rusted primary pan, and the customer had taken the top and ductboard sides off of it. I gave him a quote for a new coil, some corrections to ductwork to address airflow issues, etc., but didn't even try putting it back together. The HVAC tech friend ended up blasting me on the forum and to his friend for not trying to fix it... Heck with that, no way I was going to assume liability for the inevitable, just to save his buddy some cash!
It's typical for the battery in a Nest without a Common wire to eventually lose charge. The instructions for mine did not recommend a common wire. After 3 years of stealing power from other wires, it was unable to keep the battery charged. After figuring that out, I threw away the Nest rather than add a Common wire because I didn't want to deal with their stupidity any more.
I think you did the best thing cutting your losses with it. I had, to my shame, a Nest. Worst thing I ever bought. Battery faded after three years (you lost power, it lost all its settings after a few minutes). After four the metal ring navigation controller got erratic (the 2nd generation used an optical sensor which collected dust that you couldn't clean out, apparently, so you turned it and the indentations in the inside of the ring couldn't be detected). So you could only operate it using the app. Eventually, it lost power, lost settings and I couldn't set it up again using the (inop) navigation ring. Nest are, in my opinion, a scam.
It is not logical to have a battery, period. Doesn't make any sense to use one because if the power is off for a period of time, nothing will work even though the Nest is still active running off the battery. So, just like anything else that uses a battery, they can leak, corrode the terminals etc. which is another added point of failure. Best to use t stats that run on the 24v, period. I agree...not all tech is logical even though there are many advantages.
@@caru3257 Not...really. you only need a common to power the stat without batteries. Even with heat pumps, the input voltage is in R then moves out through the O (or however they label it). The only time you need a common is for Tstats that have to be powered at all times.
Great job on educating those out there about the liabilities that come with doing “favors”. It’s very difficult to get some techs to always consider the liability that comes with performing a service. It’s a lesson that’s always learned the hard way, mainly from getting hit in the pocket 💰💰💰💰
You are absolutely correct in what you did.. last one to touch it owns it.. when that ceiling floods and falls down into the living room you would be to blame because they said you should have fixed it since you touched it. 👍
I'm really liking this channel. I only wish you were in our area as I know who I would call for any HVAC work. Thanks for taking us along on your calls.
I've never worked on HVAC other than getting my furnace working because the blower was stuck (guessing due to not being used, not sure was a rental home) just gave it a spin and turned the unit back on and it induced a draft and ignited. I enjoy watching these videos, I'm a mechanic by trade so this stuff is interesting to me.
100% agree! Anyone with any experience in the service industry knows once you touch it, you own it… especially if you’re doing a band-aid fix on someone else’s massive screw up. That will just confuse the liability issue more, and you being the last one to touch it will likely shoulder most if not all of the blame from the customer’s perspective, deserved or not. Doesn’t matter how much explaining and warning you give the customer, there’s a good chance they’ll still come hollering after they’ve ignored it for another year and now they need the ceiling re-rocked. Even if you technically have no legal liability, it just isn’t worth the grief, time, possible reputation damage, etc. Just avoid putting yourself in that situation in the first place. At worst the customer might be a little disappointed at first, but they’ll get over it. Lot better than the alternative!
You're EXACTLY right. If you're not gonna be able to fix it entirely ... then doing only half means something could still go wrong, and then like you said .... you touched it, so you own it!
I agree with the repair / correction of the drain and safety switch. However the cause of the unit not working was not addressed. It was obvious that there was no common wire run to the Nest. It needs power at all times. For heating and cooling. The Nest will work up until the internal battery dies. Then you get nothing. The system needs a common wire run to the thermostat.
Blow and go installers give the whole industry a black eye. I was taught to do it right the first time , seems quality is a thing of the past to a lot of these guys. Pride in your work is no longer a thing either...
Yep the installers don't care, its not like they get the call later that night. Having to deal w/ a pissed home owner cause now your ceiling has caved in. Idiot installers never have to go back & are never held accountable. Us field mechs have to do everything, including smooth over the home owner while not motherfucking the installers...at 11:00 PM at night cause you're the unlucky SOB on call.
Mr Ted. It's easy for people to say what they would had done when they dont have ant any liability for damages ! And not only that once u touch it all that crappy install I'd yours when the next guy comes. I really enjoy your videos I live in summerville SC
Well said! You work on it, you own it period. No matter how you were trying to "help" somebody out, its now your baby. I see a lot of that type of crap in condos, "my maintenance guy has been taking care of my A/C". LOL!
I did exclusive electrical work for a GC that built McDonald's and Hardee's restaurants. The GC used a local combination plumbing and electrical contractor on an out-of-state project because he didn't want to pay our extra expenses for travel, motels, etc. Because of the combo contractor's incompetence, the GC ended up paying me and my apprentice close to two weeks' worth of time, material, and expenses to straighten out the mess his cheap contractor had made. He also had to cover another plumbing company's expenses for 3 or 4 days to straighten out the plumbing mess. He never argued about paying our extra expenses after that. He was able to recoup some of the extra money spent out of the money he was holding from the cheap contractor.
I agree completely! But I do always eliminate a secondary line on a new overflow pan. just needs to be a pan and a float switch that will shut down the system as soon as the primary clogs so the homeowner knows there is a problem quickly. if the original hack company would have at least done that, this problem may have been resolved the day after install when the ac quit running due to a tripped float switch from the primary being connected wrong! Then it would have been under the install warranty period, if this hack even gave them a warranty, I don't even know how that past inspection, unless they never pulled a permit!
I agree with the liability. That install was ridiculous. I hate when they goober on mastic all over the coil doors so you have to fiddle with it for an hour just to get the door off lol
The issue with nest stats is u really need to have a 5 wire system the 5th wire being the common. My parents ran into an issue where the nest was drawing down the low voltage power at the condenser. Had a professional come in and they went back to the original stat. Then for my house and now their house, we reran 5 wire and both houses are running fine. They say some setups can run fine on 4 but if your going to add a nest, you really need to have a 5 wire setup.
They say they don't because they pull voltage from the unit's low voltage while running. But after 2 to 3 years they almost always start failing, or the thing will start failing immediately due to the voltage drain.
I ran one for a couple years with no common. It uses an internal battery and leaches power off the flow through the heating circuit. Not the recommended method but it works for some.
@@RyanRiopel Doing this will eventually break things outside the Nest, generally it wears down either the induced draft motor or the relay that turns on the induced draft motor. Eventually leading to failure.
Hey brother I love your channel and everything you said Is absolutely correct. I justvwanted to say that ALL nest thermostats must have a common wire attached to it. If it's 4 wire then take your "g" wire off and use it as common...9 times outta 10 the customer wouldn't want to pay for a 5 or 6 wire...just wanted to say that to a guy I look up at...keep doing your thing brother.
Good call Ted. As a company owner you must always protect your six. Too many opportunistic people out there trying to make money off of situations like that.
I agree 100% with you Ted. That's another reason I don't like working for landlords they never want to fix things right. Homeowners tend to want to fix things right.
100 percent correct no point in putting Band-Aids on top of Band-Aids. Wouldn't do anything until home owner requested and even then do it the right way or not at all
And the drain being in the wrong spot also introduce two 90’ fittings that can be eliminated when the primary drain is hooked up correctly so as not as easily clogged! CYA good business practice!
I have to agree, don't touch the mess someone else created, especially on an install job. The job they did doesn't look like it should plus the drain issues is a complete failure and against code I would think so, shame on them to put the home at risk like they have. That's about all you can do with the physical agenda you are faced with. That customer is best off working with the folks they paid to do the job correct in the first place and now that they have "a second opinion" from another HVAC person, its likely the previous HVAC will correct the drain concerns, in the least. It's all on them the way it sits now so best to pounce on them and see what they are willing to do. Who knows, they may redo the pans and drains including the other concerns pointed out by a competitor HVAC. If not, the customer is better off not dealing with them at all and crossing them off their list. Another point, documentation on the paperwork helps as well so that the existing concerns are disclosed to the customer and noted incorrect etc. I just cannot believe how businesses out there decide how they will do their work, regardless of HVAC. If there is a job worth doing...its worth doing right the first time !
Good advice for liability protection. But, It also gives the original company the opportunity to correct what their people did. If they won't, then the customer has to make a decision. If I owned a company and one of my crews did something haywire, I'd like the opportunity to put it right. Not all companies work that way of course, but ya gotta give 'em a chance to make it right. (IMO)
Ted I’m in South Bend In and I know Exactly what you’re saying on all these hacked jobs!! I do service up here and I see it all the time people not knowing what they’re doing and it will drive you crazy!! Great video sir!!!!!😀😀
I like the parts of your videos that show you driving. It’s a chance to see what a part of South Carolina looks like. I have noticed that your city LOVES to use the speed bumps in the residential areas. Geez, I bet they are pain in the A*#…slow down,speed up, repeat. I bet you get half the lifespan on automobile brakes versus other parts of the country. PLEASE keep producing these videos! Your style of filming and narrative is top notch!
I concur with your analysis all too often homeowners are too quick to sue you and you're right you touch it you own it you're the last one there and the first one to pay the price
That install looks horrible, I’m not saying I’m the perfect installer, but in my neck of the wood people have a little more pride in their installs. I totally agree with you on the liability, you touched it last you own it, doesn’t matter who installed it at that point.
Speaking as a homeowner as well as a (lapsed!) contractor, you made exactly the right call Ted, I think. There's nothing more frustrating than when you've got a fault in a system (whatever it is, HVAC, wiring, plumbing and drainage...), someone goes in and partially fixes things. You're obligated to pay for their work, obviously. So for one thing, you've lost the opportunity to get redress if a previous contractor messed up. There's no reason at all why the previous contractor should honour the price you, as the homeowner, paid a third party and then try to present them with the bill after the fact. At the very least, you have -- as you pointed out in the endnotes -- to give the original contractor the chance to make good which, for them, would be at cost, rather than having to pay also for a subsequent contractor's profit margin. Might not go into litigation, but if it does, no court will look favourably on the aggrieved party not first offering the original contractor the option of remediation. And, conversely, if you do as the homeowner want to have not just a fix for the immediate problem but also do some enhancements or improve the system from a condition where it might not be a hack job, but might not be done to the standard you'd want it to be (as it's your house), then you want to give the second contractor -- as you were in the position of -- going in behind the first one the scope to plan their upgrade in the best and most economical way. So why fix the drain line when you might end up replacing it entirely? Yes, it is complicated. And this does mean you can get knee-jerk reactions and folks kvetching for quick fixes like "why didn't you just kludge the drain line and pan, then?". Don't make 'em right.
A customer call to the SC License Board would cure that contractor of lack of supervision. People who have not passed a difficult test to be in A/C contractor with all the insurance and other costs of owning a business should just keep their comments to themselves as to Liability issues.
Ted, great video. You do know that those Nests require constant 24V power to them to work correctly? That 24v powers the WIFI transmitter in them. They will display an error code that indicates no power if the C wire is not hooked up or their wire saver isn't hooked up. I noticed that it didn't look like the C wire was hooked up, which is required unless Nest's wire saver is installed. Just an FYI my friend. Have a good week.
It's companies hiring guys who need a job, not wanting a job. You want cheap, you get cheap. All blocking in a pan to support a unit should be treated 4x or 6x. The whole pan hung from all-thread off the rafters. Then it can be leveled perfectly and plenum connections are flex connected to ducting, the whole works will be isolated from vibrations. Have some pride contractors, geez
An honest man will help others and still watch his own back at the same time. Thats just how it goes. It's not worth losing your livelihood over 1 mess unit. HVAC YT is becoming bust the hacks and the con artists, it seems that way. You, my friend, are far from that. FARRRRRRRRR from that.
We all coulda done this and that. Original installers shoulda do a little better than what they did(especially licensed competitor). Giving em a chance to take care of it - very professional, as well as being honest with customer.
Ted, if you decided to fix the discussed issues, it could be a problem if the original contractor decided to make the repairs, saw what you did and walked away. This is why I would agree with you.
Excellent videos. Only thing I suggest is when you use jumper wire, better to connect the R terminal last as otherwise there is always a chance if jumper wire from R terminal dangling and touching the body of the furnace or C terminal. Thanks
Thank you for your passing forward. Is it possible to in stall a whole house humidifier on a modular home down flow system with no air return duct work? I really appreciate it your advice or any information on this subject.
Steve Lav doesn’t mind swearing in front of his customers but his boss is okay with it. Steve also has walked away from a few jobs especially when a leaking oil tank is involved.
Hey Ted, the configuration between the coil and furnace needs to be changed. The top needs to be flush on that coil or a proper transition installed. The curved section of the "N" coil isn't getting airflow and is icing up for sure. Needs to be fixed!!
Nest always need a common wire. Some last a few years. Some last a few days. But they always need a common wire the low voltage drain effects the transformer. Control board etc.
@Anti DIY HVAC Ted I have to ask your thoughts on the "RunTru" brand? I haven't seen them before but saw on another channel someone getting some installed so looked them up and its by Trane as well.
The best thing you did did for the customer is find immediate problem with the unit and let them know about the correction that needs to be made let them take the responsibility for it After all that there’s house and system
You're right, the original installers, made some bad calls, who knows what else is in the wings and you don't want to be held accountable for others actions.
I love homeowners. Mad at you that you said something, mad at you that you didn't say somthing and when it comes to a leak that caused 5000 in damage from the hvac system that you touched it will always be your fault
I once came to condensers and found that the wires where cut from the fan after that the customer said that she had someone looking at her condensers and said she needed a new motor. I did not to what touch the unit after that and have the other company to fix they mess.
Completely off topic, but I've go to comment/ask. What is it with the raised sections of roadway? Are those intended to be large speed bumps to slow traffic down? I would find that really annoying. Also, I noticed on several of the roads many, maybe most, of the cars parked facing the wrong way. For a bit I thought that perhaps you were driving the wrong way on a one-way street, but I could see speed limit and road signs facing the way you were traveling. Where I live parking facing the wrong way is ticketable offence. It is called parking left-wheels-to-curb. Do they not have that where you live?
As an architect I totally concur on your liability issue. You alter it and you assume the liability. It's amazing/horrifying to me that anyone who installs systems like that (the previous installers) could set it up that way and leave it.
They should tie a moisture sensor into the thermostat. Have a light flash or something. Where I live condensation is rarely an issue, it can be but drain pans are very rare.
As you were driving around in the latter part of the video, there were at least 3 vehicles parked on the right side of the street facing against traffic. It could potentially be a factor, in the case of your vehicle hitting one of these "wrong facing" parked vehicles, that the insurance company for the owner of the parked vehicle could refuse accident coverage. In some cases, a police car driving by could stop and issue a ticket "for being parked while facing the wrong direction". However: not sure if that would apply in every U.S. jurisdiction, or not. Some people are unaware of this, as apparently many in your area are unaware.
No such thing with insurance and a parked car on the wrong side of the road. If there is insurance, the parked and unattended car is covered with the insurance that person is paying for. It doesn't matter which way its parked or if it were being driven, insurance applies, unless it was reported as stolen and then comes an accident.
Ted- great analysis of liability! I 100% agree with your thinking!👍😊. Once you touch it you own it….. plus the original installer that did it wrong can then blame you for his errors. If you’re going to do it….do it right! Or don’t do it at all.
Ted is the reason why I always do my calls correctly and right the first time, leaving nothing to chance. I've learned tools of the trade from you, and appreciate it. Also to anyone not in hvac: there's not enough of us techs around to make this trade super competitive, so its best to share what we've learned with eachother
Just wanted to say this 20 year HVAC technician really enjoys watching your content!.... The knowledge you're putting out in your videos is definitely giving back to the HVAC community and trade. Thank You!
I hope that you continue to share the knowledge you've gained over the years of being out in the field.
The "You touch it you own it" is an extremely important point to get across to newer techs, that haven't been bitten by that nasty trap.
Yep, saves you money in the ling run not touching them
You’re 100% correct about liability. Great business practice. 👍
The nest thermostat had me down for a few hours as well. I replaced it with a Honeywell programmable and haven’t looked back. Nice video and explanation.
Cowboy you are always doing the correct thing to keep the other HVAC contractors from taking advantage of the customer! Thanks Ted !
I don't blame ya for leaving it like that at all. You gotta protect yourself. After all, No Good Deed goes unpunished nowadays.
I agree with you Ted. As sue happy as the world is today, you really need to cover your rear in situations like that. All it would take is a leak to destroy the house over a weekend when they aren't at home and damage the ceiling then the floor and then 1st floor ceiling and floor. We have had water leak when a warranty company put a new coil in, and replaced the pan but didn't realize that the pan they installed was too small because of the condensating furnace and didn't extend under its drain. They put a hairline crack in the drain on the furnace and come winter it was draining all over the ceiling in a guest room that wasn't used very much. That was a multi thousand dollar repair that they had to eat.
The liability speech reminds me of a call I had years ago where an out of town HVAC tech, that was a member of an HVAC forum I participated in, recommended me to a friend of his for a condensate issue.
When I got there it was an old AllStyle all in one coil in the attic of a 2 story house, with no emergency drain pan, extremely rusted primary pan, and the customer had taken the top and ductboard sides off of it.
I gave him a quote for a new coil, some corrections to ductwork to address airflow issues, etc., but didn't even try putting it back together.
The HVAC tech friend ended up blasting me on the forum and to his friend for not trying to fix it...
Heck with that, no way I was going to assume liability for the inevitable, just to save his buddy some cash!
It's typical for the battery in a Nest without a Common wire to eventually lose charge. The instructions for mine did not recommend a common wire. After 3 years of stealing power from other wires, it was unable to keep the battery charged. After figuring that out, I threw away the Nest rather than add a Common wire because I didn't want to deal with their stupidity any more.
Sensi from Emerson does not use a common for conventional systems, gas, oil furnaces and A/C. Heat pump and single use systems you need a common.
I think you did the best thing cutting your losses with it. I had, to my shame, a Nest. Worst thing I ever bought. Battery faded after three years (you lost power, it lost all its settings after a few minutes). After four the metal ring navigation controller got erratic (the 2nd generation used an optical sensor which collected dust that you couldn't clean out, apparently, so you turned it and the indentations in the inside of the ring couldn't be detected). So you could only operate it using the app. Eventually, it lost power, lost settings and I couldn't set it up again using the (inop) navigation ring.
Nest are, in my opinion, a scam.
It is not logical to have a battery, period. Doesn't make any sense to use one because if the power is off for a period of time, nothing will work even though the Nest is still active running off the battery. So, just like anything else that uses a battery, they can leak, corrode the terminals etc. which is another added point of failure. Best to use t stats that run on the 24v, period. I agree...not all tech is logical even though there are many advantages.
@@caru3257 Not...really. you only need a common to power the stat without batteries. Even with heat pumps, the input voltage is in R then moves out through the O (or however they label it).
The only time you need a common is for Tstats that have to be powered at all times.
Definitely need that common wire. Seen it too many times, it will eventually become a problem.
Great job on educating those out there about the liabilities that come with doing “favors”. It’s very difficult to get some techs to always consider the liability that comes with performing a service. It’s a lesson that’s always learned the hard way, mainly from getting hit in the pocket 💰💰💰💰
You are absolutely correct in what you did.. last one to touch it owns it.. when that ceiling floods and falls down into the living room you would be to blame because they said you should have fixed it since you touched it. 👍
Mr Ted you did the proper thing 30 years you know what can and cannot be done you must always protect yourself and the Company’s name . Great Job Hoss
I'm really liking this channel. I only wish you were in our area as I know who I would call for any HVAC work. Thanks for taking us along on your calls.
What a mess that was! I think your explanation is 100% right. That's smart business sense.
Just covering your rear end, good thinking Ted!
More than just covering his rear end.
I've never worked on HVAC other than getting my furnace working because the blower was stuck (guessing due to not being used, not sure was a rental home) just gave it a spin and turned the unit back on and it induced a draft and ignited.
I enjoy watching these videos, I'm a mechanic by trade so this stuff is interesting to me.
I learned a lot about the business side right now. Thank you and please have more such commentary.
Great work , teaching us young guys can’t get tunnel vision being a hero. Sometimes you just got protect the customer from themselves
100% agree! Anyone with any experience in the service industry knows once you touch it, you own it… especially if you’re doing a band-aid fix on someone else’s massive screw up. That will just confuse the liability issue more, and you being the last one to touch it will likely shoulder most if not all of the blame from the customer’s perspective, deserved or not. Doesn’t matter how much explaining and warning you give the customer, there’s a good chance they’ll still come hollering after they’ve ignored it for another year and now they need the ceiling re-rocked.
Even if you technically have no legal liability, it just isn’t worth the grief, time, possible reputation damage, etc. Just avoid putting yourself in that situation in the first place. At worst the customer might be a little disappointed at first, but they’ll get over it. Lot better than the alternative!
That was a top tier install.
I have learned a lot from watching now I am going to be a Helicopter when my HVAC guy comes around
Once you touch it you own it...Truer words have never been spoken. This is exactly why I quit fixing computers for family for the most part.
You are absolutely correct….you touch it you own it…..
You're EXACTLY right. If you're not gonna be able to fix it entirely ... then doing only half means something could still go wrong, and then like you said .... you touched it, so you own it!
NONETHELESS you are super cool.learn alot about work integrity from you plus you have very smooth voice'
I agree with the repair / correction of the drain and safety switch. However the cause of the unit not working was not addressed. It was obvious that there was no common wire run to the Nest. It needs power at all times. For heating and cooling. The Nest will work up until the internal battery dies. Then you get nothing. The system needs a common wire run to the thermostat.
100% agree about liability. Good job educating the customer to make it right
Blow and go installers give the whole industry a black eye. I was taught to do it right the first time , seems quality is a thing of the past to a lot of these guys. Pride in your work is no longer a thing either...
Yep the installers don't care, its not like they get the call later that night. Having to deal w/ a pissed home owner cause now your ceiling has caved in.
Idiot installers never have to go back & are never held accountable.
Us field mechs have to do everything, including smooth over the home owner while not motherfucking the installers...at 11:00 PM at night cause you're the unlucky SOB on call.
Mr Ted. It's easy for people to say what they would had done when they dont have ant any liability for damages ! And not only that once u touch it all that crappy install I'd yours when the next guy comes. I really enjoy your videos I live in summerville SC
Well said! You work on it, you own it period. No matter how you were trying to "help" somebody out, its now your baby.
I see a lot of that type of crap in condos, "my maintenance guy has been taking care of my A/C".
LOL!
I did exclusive electrical work for a GC that built McDonald's and Hardee's restaurants. The GC used a local combination plumbing and electrical contractor on an out-of-state project because he didn't want to pay our extra expenses for travel, motels, etc. Because of the combo contractor's incompetence, the GC ended up paying me and my apprentice close to two weeks' worth of time, material, and expenses to straighten out the mess his cheap contractor had made. He also had to cover another plumbing company's expenses for 3 or 4 days to straighten out the plumbing mess. He never argued about paying our extra expenses after that. He was able to recoup some of the extra money spent out of the money he was holding from the cheap contractor.
I agree completely! But I do always eliminate a secondary line on a new overflow pan. just needs to be a pan and a float switch that will shut down the system as soon as the primary clogs so the homeowner knows there is a problem quickly. if the original hack company would have at least done that, this problem may have been resolved the day after install when the ac quit running due to a tripped float switch from the primary being connected wrong! Then it would have been under the install warranty period, if this hack even gave them a warranty, I don't even know how that past inspection, unless they never pulled a permit!
I appreciate your videos, it is just refreshing to watch a professional who is dedicated to "doing it right" no matter what.
I agree with the liability. That install was ridiculous. I hate when they goober on mastic all over the coil doors so you have to fiddle with it for an hour just to get the door off lol
The issue with nest stats is u really need to have a 5 wire system the 5th wire being the common. My parents ran into an issue where the nest was drawing down the low voltage power at the condenser. Had a professional come in and they went back to the original stat. Then for my house and now their house, we reran 5 wire and both houses are running fine. They say some setups can run fine on 4 but if your going to add a nest, you really need to have a 5 wire setup.
Ted, don't those Nest T-stats require a common wire, to keep the internal battery charged?
They say they don't because they pull voltage from the unit's low voltage while running. But after 2 to 3 years they almost always start failing, or the thing will start failing immediately due to the voltage drain.
I ran one for a couple years with no common. It uses an internal battery and leaches power off the flow through the heating circuit. Not the recommended method but it works for some.
@@RyanRiopel Doing this will eventually break things outside the Nest, generally it wears down either the induced draft motor or the relay that turns on the induced draft motor. Eventually leading to failure.
The nest voided all warranty on the system. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hey brother I love your channel and everything you said Is absolutely correct. I justvwanted to say that ALL nest thermostats must have a common wire attached to it. If it's 4 wire then take your "g" wire off and use it as common...9 times outta 10 the customer wouldn't want to pay for a 5 or 6 wire...just wanted to say that to a guy I look up at...keep doing your thing brother.
Good call Ted. As a company owner you must always protect your six. Too many opportunistic people out there trying to make money off of situations like that.
You are absolutely right.
Your narrative is how I did my work, back in the day.
If you do it right, then you are a hero!
Great talk. Also, love the little ride, nice area !!!!.
I agree 100% with you Ted. That's another reason I don't like working for landlords they never want to fix things right. Homeowners tend to want to fix things right.
100 percent correct no point in putting Band-Aids on top of Band-Aids. Wouldn't do anything until home owner requested and even then do it the right way or not at all
Ted, Yep as an aircraft mechanic we do pick our jobs and how we handle liability carefully.
And the drain being in the wrong spot also introduce two 90’ fittings that can be eliminated when the primary drain is hooked up correctly so as not as easily clogged! CYA good business practice!
You did the right thing. I want to see more video on how your new shop is going
Owned my own hvac company since 1995 and Totally agree.
So the thermostat was the cooling issue? Did the customer decide to replace the nest?
I have to agree, don't touch the mess someone else created, especially on an install job. The job they did doesn't look like it should plus the drain issues is a complete failure and against code I would think so, shame on them to put the home at risk like they have. That's about all you can do with the physical agenda you are faced with. That customer is best off working with the folks they paid to do the job correct in the first place and now that they have "a second opinion" from another HVAC person, its likely the previous HVAC will correct the drain concerns, in the least. It's all on them the way it sits now so best to pounce on them and see what they are willing to do. Who knows, they may redo the pans and drains including the other concerns pointed out by a competitor HVAC. If not, the customer is better off not dealing with them at all and crossing them off their list.
Another point, documentation on the paperwork helps as well so that the existing concerns are disclosed to the customer and noted incorrect etc. I just cannot believe how businesses out there decide how they will do their work, regardless of HVAC. If there is a job worth doing...its worth doing right the first time !
Good advice for liability protection. But, It also gives the original company the opportunity to correct what their people did. If they won't, then the customer has to make a decision.
If I owned a company and one of my crews did something haywire, I'd like the opportunity to put it right. Not all companies work that way of course, but ya gotta give 'em a chance to make it right. (IMO)
If you touch it and don't completely fix it correctly, you are just asking for issues that would be viewed as your fault. You made the right call Ted!
Ted I’m in South Bend In and I know Exactly what you’re saying on all these hacked jobs!! I do service up here and I see it all the time people not knowing what they’re doing and it will drive you crazy!! Great video sir!!!!!😀😀
I like the parts of your videos that show you driving. It’s a chance to see what a part of South Carolina looks like. I have noticed that your city LOVES to use the speed bumps in the residential areas. Geez, I bet they are pain in the A*#…slow down,speed up, repeat. I bet you get half the lifespan on automobile brakes versus other parts of the country.
PLEASE keep producing these videos! Your style of filming and narrative is top notch!
Yes, real-quicks, patch jobs, just-for-nows are what gets you burned. I’ve had a hard time learning that and sometimes still get stung once in awhile.
"You can't put mechanical control in the hands of the homeowner after you have assumed liability" No truer words were spoken.
I concur with your analysis all too often homeowners are too quick to sue you and you're right you touch it you own it you're the last one there and the first one to pay the price
Smart Tstats need that common connection. The nest goes wild if it doesn’t
That install looks horrible, I’m not saying I’m the perfect installer, but in my neck of the wood people have a little more pride in their installs. I totally agree with you on the liability, you touched it last you own it, doesn’t matter who installed it at that point.
Keep up the Great work Ted!! You're a cut above the rest!
Speaking as a homeowner as well as a (lapsed!) contractor, you made exactly the right call Ted, I think.
There's nothing more frustrating than when you've got a fault in a system (whatever it is, HVAC, wiring, plumbing and drainage...), someone goes in and partially fixes things. You're obligated to pay for their work, obviously.
So for one thing, you've lost the opportunity to get redress if a previous contractor messed up. There's no reason at all why the previous contractor should honour the price you, as the homeowner, paid a third party and then try to present them with the bill after the fact. At the very least, you have -- as you pointed out in the endnotes -- to give the original contractor the chance to make good which, for them, would be at cost, rather than having to pay also for a subsequent contractor's profit margin. Might not go into litigation, but if it does, no court will look favourably on the aggrieved party not first offering the original contractor the option of remediation.
And, conversely, if you do as the homeowner want to have not just a fix for the immediate problem but also do some enhancements or improve the system from a condition where it might not be a hack job, but might not be done to the standard you'd want it to be (as it's your house), then you want to give the second contractor -- as you were in the position of -- going in behind the first one the scope to plan their upgrade in the best and most economical way. So why fix the drain line when you might end up replacing it entirely?
Yes, it is complicated. And this does mean you can get knee-jerk reactions and folks kvetching for quick fixes like "why didn't you just kludge the drain line and pan, then?". Don't make 'em right.
A customer call to the SC License Board would cure that contractor of lack of supervision. People who have not passed a difficult test to be in A/C contractor with all the insurance and other costs of owning a business should just keep their comments to themselves as to Liability issues.
Ted, great video. You do know that those Nests require constant 24V power to them to work correctly? That 24v powers the WIFI transmitter in them. They will display an error code that indicates no power if the C wire is not hooked up or their wire saver isn't hooked up. I noticed that it didn't look like the C wire was hooked up, which is required unless Nest's wire saver is installed. Just an FYI my friend. Have a good week.
It's companies hiring guys who need a job, not wanting a job. You want cheap, you get cheap. All blocking in a pan to support a unit should be treated 4x or 6x. The whole pan hung from all-thread off the rafters. Then it can be leveled perfectly and plenum connections are flex connected to ducting, the whole works will be isolated from vibrations. Have some pride contractors, geez
I hate those Nest thermostats. Really PITA
I 100% agree with what you did not do ....makes perfect sence
An honest man will help others and still watch his own back at the same time. Thats just how it goes. It's not worth losing your livelihood over 1 mess unit. HVAC YT is becoming bust the hacks and the con artists, it seems that way. You, my friend, are far from that. FARRRRRRRRR from that.
We all coulda done this and that. Original installers shoulda do a little better than what they did(especially licensed competitor). Giving em a chance to take care of it - very professional, as well as being honest with customer.
Good for you Ted! You didn't start your business yesterday! You have had policy's in place long before you came to this job!
Ted, if you decided to fix the discussed issues, it could be a problem if the original contractor decided to make the repairs, saw what you did and walked away. This is why I would agree with you.
Excellent videos. Only thing I suggest is when you use jumper wire, better to connect the R terminal last as otherwise there is always a chance if jumper wire from R terminal dangling and touching the body of the furnace or C terminal. Thanks
Thank you for your passing forward.
Is it possible to in stall a whole house humidifier on a modular home down flow system with no air return duct work?
I really appreciate it your advice or any information on this subject.
Great explanation. 100% makes sense! Oh, and I hate Nest products.
Once you work on it you’re married to it!
And everybody knows there’s no cussing in HVAC right?
😆 😅 😂 🤣😆 😅 😂 🤣😆 😅 😂 🤣😆 😅 😂 🤣
I make an exception when I work at churches but I have not been back under one in a while.
Yea I have walked away from a lot of those
Steve Lav doesn’t mind swearing in front of his customers but his boss is okay with it. Steve also has walked away from a few jobs especially when a leaking oil tank is involved.
Hey Ted, the configuration between the coil and furnace needs to be changed. The top needs to be flush on that coil or a proper transition installed. The curved section of the "N" coil isn't getting airflow and is icing up for sure. Needs to be fixed!!
Nest always need a common wire. Some last a few years. Some last a few days. But they always need a common wire the low voltage drain effects the transformer. Control board etc.
Yup 100% agree on your decision and liability when working at customers house.
The liability info is good to know as I am considering starting my own business once I get a few more years of experience under my belt
I agree with you 100% only a hack job bob would correct it the wrong way and not own it
That is one nice neighborhood!! As always good job Ted!!
@Anti DIY HVAC Ted I have to ask your thoughts on the "RunTru" brand? I haven't seen them before but saw on another channel someone getting some installed so looked them up and its by Trane as well.
Your right Ted. You touch it you own it. Right choice.
The best thing you did did for the customer is find immediate problem with the unit and let them know about the correction that needs to be made let them take the responsibility for it After all that there’s house and system
Ted, your explanation about liability is correct 100%
You're right, the original installers, made some bad calls, who knows what else is in the wings and you don't want to be held accountable for others actions.
Good call Ted. Definitely when you touch it you own it. It all or nothing. On to the next one.
Ted that's the only way to do business, DO IT RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL.
I ADMIRE THE WAY YOU DO BUSINESS!!!!!.
I love homeowners. Mad at you that you said something, mad at you that you didn't say somthing and when it comes to a leak that caused 5000 in damage from the hvac system that you touched it will always be your fault
What a mess. Good job with explaining the issues.
I once came to condensers and found that the wires where cut from the fan after that the customer said that she had someone looking at her condensers and said she needed a new motor. I did not to what touch the unit after that and have the other company to fix they mess.
I agree with your decision on this one. Thank you for the explanation at the end.
Why oh why do I find this so interesting??? Arm chairing my way to diagnosing my own HVAC failure in the future I guess.
I don't know so I'm asking. Was the water leaking out of lower fitting rusty and what is inside the unit that is making so much rust? Or was it dirt?
Always enjoy watching your channel. 👌👌👍
Good business practice, never open your business to risk unnecessarily. Wise decision.
As always Ted I love your videos your the best
Completely off topic, but I've go to comment/ask. What is it with the raised sections of roadway? Are those intended to be large speed bumps to slow traffic down? I would find that really annoying.
Also, I noticed on several of the roads many, maybe most, of the cars parked facing the wrong way. For a bit I thought that perhaps you were driving the wrong way on a one-way street, but I could see speed limit and road signs facing the way you were traveling. Where I live parking facing the wrong way is ticketable offence. It is called parking left-wheels-to-curb. Do they not have that where you live?
As an architect I totally concur on your liability issue. You alter it and you assume the liability. It's amazing/horrifying to me that anyone who installs systems like that (the previous installers) could set it up that way and leave it.
They should tie a moisture sensor into the thermostat. Have a light flash or something. Where I live condensation is rarely an issue, it can be but drain pans are very rare.
As you were driving around in the latter part of the video, there were at least 3 vehicles parked on the right side of the street facing against traffic. It could potentially be a factor, in the case of your vehicle hitting one of these "wrong facing" parked vehicles, that the insurance company for the owner of the parked vehicle could refuse accident coverage. In some cases, a police car driving by could stop and issue a ticket "for being parked while facing the wrong direction". However: not sure if that would apply in every U.S. jurisdiction, or not. Some people are unaware of this, as apparently many in your area are unaware.
No such thing with insurance and a parked car on the wrong side of the road. If there is insurance, the parked and unattended car is covered with the insurance that person is paying for. It doesn't matter which way its parked or if it were being driven, insurance applies, unless it was reported as stolen and then comes an accident.