I was an adjunct professor for one year. I was called into the Dept heads' office over a low grade that I gave one student. Told that this students were big donors and I had to rise his grade I pushed back that it would be unfair to the other students that had done the work. The department chair insisted that the grade would be raised. I obeyed and raised his grade and the grades of every other student accordingly. Wealthy people are the biggest law breakers, cheaters, and rule breakers. Privilege for the privileged.
@@frankmartin8471 Well Frank, Her degree was in history, I told her that is where she belonged. The experience confirmed why I never wanted to be a part of such institutions. Most, not all, of the professors had no problem selling out a students future if it furthered theirs.
Yeah, the audacity of brat students who are really not that smart and their entitled rich parents, but that's the reality. It is just unfair to other students who are really studying very hard in order to attain high grades!
The way this usually works: we give the lowest possible non-failing grade to bad students. Then any serious grad school immediately knows what is going on.
Students fail organic chemistry all the time, that's not the professor's fault. It's a field of study that requires an immense basic understanding and still forces students to study for countless hours without any guarantee that you understand it enough to pass. You need a personality fitting the field to succeed in organic chemistry. You need to enjoy balancing equations all the time, and reading books that most other people could hardly pronounce the title. You cannot force somebody to "undertand" organic chemistry, and there are no "easy" courses. And of course, students who end up with the "bad" professor are usually the ones waiting for the very last moment to inform themselves on what will be expected of them and what their choices are. And all of these students end up in the "bad" course, leading to extremely high failure rates in those courses. I was "warned" multiple times of "bad" educators, only to find that when I did my research these turned out to be the most qualified in their field.
Well, from the coverage here whether or not the guy is a good teacher can not be known; perhaps he was a brilliant research professor at Princeton, and he just isn't a very good communicator so he isn't a good teacher (some complaints about him are cited here, but their veracity cannot be determined here). This is possible, and your take is possible, and so are loads of other possibilities.
@@chonqmonk No matter how good communicators are, they can't be open to everyone. Some people just don't have the relevant skills. They should look for other ways instead of expelling teachers. You will only hurt your country by indulging your students. Look at sls until now Can't go to heaven.
Says someone who probably never took Organic Chemistry in their life. I took first and second year Organic Chemistry. I loved it, at least compared to Biochemistry. First year is super easy, basically electron rearrangements, but second year? I'd like to see you reconstruct a molecule based on nothing but NMR and IR spectroscopy and vice versa without a cheat sheet -- which we were allowed. Literally looking at a bunch of weird spikes and plateaus and trying to figure out how the molecule split the IR beam
Ochem have 50% failure rate nation wide in the US. With Calculus part 2, both are considered the two toughest weeder courses in college for med/STEM degree. We need to see if the prof’s failure rate is within the average failure rate of 50% or perhaps use the avg failure rate of all the Ochem courses at NYU with 95% confidence interval. It’s simple stats that the uni can do since they have records of all his grades from previous semesters. If 90% of his students fail, then yeah that sounds odd. But if they are within avg then those students need to retake or switch major.
When I was at university, admittedly not in the US, several students complained about one professor's particularly challenging expectations of his students. The subject was paediatric psychology. When a dozen parents complained to the Dean, she held a faculty conference, including student members of the University Senate. The result: students were told to get serious about their career choice as physicians; parents were politely told to butt out. The message was simple. If the subject is too difficult for you, look for an easier subject, or look for a university with lower expectations.
It's also because Americans refuse to give up their superstitions and myths about how the universe came into being and the darker parts of their country's history.
When I failed chemistry back in school it wasn't because the course was too difficult, it was because I never asked for help when I didn't understand stuff.
Yes. This may not apply to you, but often people say "I'm terrible at...." and if it's STEM or a higher level course in any discipline, that is acceptable, vs finding help or guidance. When really what needs addressing is the fear behind it. When people learn they can master the material, that fear drops away and they learn all kinds of things.
There IS a difference between knowing a subject and teaching a subject. I have experienced professors whose subject came so easily to them that they could not understand why students had difficulty with it.
Some teachers can't teach they just show you a book and give you test... real teachers draw you into the subject... I'm not sure where he is at on that scale
@@scottsthaname1 He has had decades of experience so I'm sure that he was a great professor. Bad professors don't last long but he clearly did at Princeton
@@scottsthaname1 In college I was asked to be a math tutor by one of my professors. He wasn’t the nicest or most friendly professor but he was very good and open to help students during his office hours, The next semester I had such a horrible physics professor. Very condescending and when I would go and ask questions during his office hours, our final was thankfully graded on a curve.
Except there are years of complaints about this professor. He's a good researcher, but his teaching skills were apparently lacking. He had a reputation for naming and shaming the lowest scoring student in class following tests. Even disclosing who got the lowest score is legally problematic. He apparently also intentionally made his class and tests more confusing than necessary to actually understand the subject matter.
They say.. thst o chem is tge biggest predictor to eho will become a good doctor. Having had zero chem classes in h.s. ... o vhem was tough. However o chem was also highly self.nourishing. ;) Its... different.
My father had to repeat his first year at Johns Hopkins 1957. After 40+ years as a plastic surgeon he retired with a 97% success record for digit replacement. (if you lost fingers or a hand, you had a good chance at full recovery if he saw you in the emergency room) He never once blamed the faculty for his early inability to pass a grade.
NYU has very privileged students for the most part - it now costs over $80k per year to attend. I have no doubt that many students signed up for Jones’ class specifically because he’s the prestigious Princeton guy and they wanted to tout that in any future application. They should have known what they were getting in to. Notably, Jones’ has been supported by other faculty in his department. That suggests that other faculty has been pressured as well. NYU administration has done this kind of thing before, pressured faculty to change grades or lower standards. Heck, I’ve heard of NYU students pressuring faculty directly to give a certain grade. There’s a reason why old NYU alums like me (I went before costs became sky high) are so disappointed with the way the school has gone.
Ahh this is one piece of info the news did not cover. I was curious if his failure rates is more than 50%, which is about the nation’s standard. It’s suppose to be the hardest course, along with Calculus 2 for college students. Most don’t pass the first round so they take it again-it’s life. These NYU students don’t seem to take failure well.
It comes down to the fact that standards at the high school level have been declining as well as at the collegiate level for decades. Periodically we get a teacher or a professor who still has some standard of excellence and they are incapable of lowering themselves to the level of mediocrity the bulk of the student body exhibits.
I am sixty. When I was twenty, My history teacher told me that the work that HE had to do in order to get his diploma was twice the amount that a current student had to do. I said "So it will get down that in order to get a diploma the student must know how to boil oatmeal." The Professor assented. And now, forty years later, look where we are, and the intelligence level of college students has markedly declined.
It seems to be both. Appears to me that students are being buried with an excess of technical information at earlier ages, which we used to get in higher grade levels. There also seems to be zero focus on analytic/critical thinking skills, which is concerning. At the same time, that class material is dumbed down for mediocre students, and more pressure to have education be 'entertaining'. When I was earning a BS degree in 1980s, a professor showed me texts he used for his PhD, and it was dramatically less (quantity) than what we were expected to digest.
I quit teaching college level critical thinking last year. I couldn't deal with the current environment in academia, and I'm a center-left voter. I don't believe colleges should traffic in culture wars, conspiracies, grade inflation, or limiting academic freedom. I love Professor Glaude, but I don't think mollycoddling young adults is the solution.
I can only imagine how stressful it must have been to teach logic in these illogical times! It’s like speaking a language that few understand and many actively hate. Truly bizarre times. In the above case, all the professor has to do on day 1 is say: “Make your own flash cards every day of class. This is a really easy class if you know from the start that a LOT memorization is all that separates this class from any other, in terms of how to acquire the knowledge necessary to ace it.” Organic chem is only a “flunk-out” class if you don’t figure this out, and if the professor doesn’t bother to teach “how to learn.”
Great comment and thank you for your educational service. They aren't mentioning specialized faculty at many universities who aren't in tenure tracks and can be fired after years of service by not being renewed. And all the things you mentioned are a serious concern.
Organic chemistry is really difficult and people fail because they just don't belong there. Do you want a doctor or a pharmacist who just can't cut their profession??Not everyone belongs where they are, and yes you are right, some people just are not willing to do the work it takes to do the job. Do something that is more along the lines of what you are able and willing to do. Its pitiful that NYU fired this professor. They have made themselves look less than a noteworthy University. Scary !
Anyone who’s been to med school in the last decade or two knows that organic chemistry is not necessary anymore. Would rather it be that intro CS be the weed out course in the 21st century
Yet I could not help to notice that this professor was so harsh to his students that they were afraid to ask him questions. While his expertise and renown in his field might be outstanding, it appears to me that he is a poor teacher. By definition, students have lesser knowledge than their teachers do. What kind of teacher makes it more difficult to share his knowledge with students? Nobody ought to be afraid to ask questions in an educational environment.
I was in advanced math from a very early age. As such I had an advanced trig class in my first year of high school. I failed. I did not whine that it was the teachers fault. My parents didn’t blame my teacher. I simply hated the class and tuned out. I deserved to fail. That teacher was one of my favorite teachers and actually helped save me from myself at a very pivotal time in my life where I was at a crossroads.
"Advanced trig class in first year of high school"? I don't think so. That's not a thing. The most advanved students have Algebra 1 in 6th grade, Geometry in 7th grade, Algebra 2 in 8th grade, and Precalculus in 9th grade. Those are absolutely the most super-advanced students. So as a freshman you could have been in Precalculus, which contains some trigonometry, but there's zero chance you were in "an advanced trig class" in your first year of high school because there is no such thing and it doesn't even make sense.
@@ChrisZ70 There are many schools with different configurations. For an example, our high school only contains grades 10 - 12. Also our Trig and Pre Calc are done together in the same year before Calculus A/B, B/C, and 3/4.
@@ChrisZ70 Currently, the HS students in Ohio can take college level courses if they maintain a B or better average. So, for example, I have had HS students taking all 3 calculuses, differential equations and linear algebra. Calc 1 and 2 are labeled as freshmen classes in college, while calc 3 is sophomore. Differential equations and linear algebra both go for either college sophomore or junior courses, depending on the school. I have had sophomore HS students who take my college junior level courses. They are, as you'd imagine, very smart and motivated young people. The only bad problem is that these students sometimes have heli-mower parents.
This problem in education goes all the way to the elementary level. Administration responds, not in the interest of educating children, but to the weight of parents complaining on behalf of their pampered children. The COVID generation of students are an outlier to the downward trend of education. God help us.
How, exactly, do you "consume" an education? Frankly, the attitude that an education is a "consumable product" is at the core of the problem. i.e. "The customer is ALWAYS right."
@@KarenParkerArtist We pay for the expertise of people who have been thoroughly vetted. if we're paying for people whose education reflects coddling and not actual skill acquisition, then we're being cheated as consumers, and we will pay the price, and so will they in the form of malpractice suits.
@@jakevendrotti1496 And you completely missed my point. In fact, you generally agree with my views as a college instructor. Knowledge and learning are not capitalist "products". Over the decades I've dealt with these exact same students. And consistently had my refusal to adjust their grades overturned by my boss or my boss' boss.
This is wrong, when it comes to higher education challenge should be expected. Courses should not be so easy you can spend a night before finals cramming to pass.
Exactly I took Organic Chemistry while at UIC here in Chicago, and it was a challenging class. So I buckle down got a tutor, did the work and passed with an A. College is supposed to challenge you it’s not supposed to be easy.
The students who complained likely also complained the class wasn't asynchronous and that the exam was in person so they can cheat on Chegg during the exams as well
Universities have been pandering to students for years now, and this case is no different. Give us your money and we'll hook you up with a degree. I see ads for e-MBAs all the time, no GMAT and no exams. Send them your credit card info and they'll give you a degree.
@@Raussl The flip is, M.B.A degree programs aren't cheap. I agree that some M.B.A programs aren't good. In fact their insistence on a non-grade curriculum is highly suspicious. If anything, I would expect some sort of entry level competency exam. Is it fair to all students, especially ones who may be seeking out a M.B.A 10 years after they first graduated college?, maybe. For local community colleges though, this is standard. You have people from all walks of life coming in to take classes and no guarantees on what or how much they have had to use their math, reading, or writing skills or scholastic research abilities. The final result of your M.B.A gotten online, also includes the typical challenge work and consultation with advisors that a regular Master's Thesis would advise. They don't skip out on that part of the process, although I assume you, of the old school variety public, have never actually tried an online collegiate course, be it for a B.A or an M.B.A. I know what I am talking about because I have had to do continuing Ed. credits in an online setting as well as in person. While implementation is rough (dare I say it mostly from old fuddie duddies who still believe in person/Uni classes are the only way to go.) class requirements and schedules for what constitutes an equal degree credit whether taken online or in person, has become far more standardized. An M.B.A from a decent online program includes plenty of research and check-ins or advisory periods so you can keep up to date with what you need to receive your degree. If anything, I would say online classes are harder than in-person lectures at any level because instead of a "butt-in-seat-for-credit" option, everything is based solely on book work and your ability to communicate via text. Worse, setting up a home lab or doing presentations via webcam with family around is as nerve wracking as getting up in front of your peers in a lecture hall and requires more technical savvy than I had to have taking my own college courses. To anyone still opposed, consider this: The cost of textbooks and higher learning materials actually puts a further impetus on the poor to remain poor because self teaching is an expensive endeavor. Research writing skills and materials are available but only after buying a textbook that costs anywhere from $40-80 dollars/book. Then you have to have someone else check the work and provide feedback. At that point you are studying like you are at a college campus but then, you wouldn't be self-educating if you had the resources to get into a community college in the first place. Some people got good grades but can't afford to take the several years off it would take to get a degree. In today's world, that means getting online and applying to some of the less stringent programs. Recruiters can complain, colleges can complain, but nobody gives anyone near the amount of aide as a fresh eyed bushy tailed Undergrad student. It's highly likely that an older student has other day to day job requirements that means relocating to do a Master's degree isn't helpful. Likewise, if B.A students roll directly into a M.B.A program with no prior work experience before they attend, getting hired is on the outside is even harder. They have less chance than the currently employed B.A senior for being hired because they actually know what goes on inside a company. The catch-22 where people complain about kids being ill-educated wannabe's whilst also having a bunch of unemployed "I went through a Master's program with my under grad degree but never worked in my chose field" kid graduates is something you, amongst others, fail to consider. A solution to the problem would be changing the way we view University and College attendance. Colleges could solve their problems by updating course curriculums to reflect the modern era and apply any and all financial aide to both in person and online learning facilities. There will never be a day where we don't need some aspect of a physical campus for certain learning goals but likewise, sitting in a lecture hall when most people can find some place with internet and a computer off of Ebay in good shape to do academic research is also asinine. IF you want kids to have work experience, make sure your Uni. or college has placement opportunities and offers jobs both during and after a students degree program which means they don't have to be stuck busting tail as a waitress or store clerk whilst also trying to get into an internship program. Some kids, in fact many of them, don't come into the college environment funded by mummy and daddy's college fund, let alone housing options. Especially if you came from a generation where your parents could afford college after working a minimum wage job they likely never bothered to set up a college fund, anticipating school would be as cheap for their kids then, as it was for them. This is obviously not the case and the flip side of that is that private schools or even more expensive out of state schools have better social networks than local small town colleges. What you gain in affordability by staying local in a small town, you lose in networking capabilities. What this means is that the poor will stay poor. They can't afford to move until they are absolutely certain that the degree of choice will pan out and that they have the academic chops to survive the program, let alone the interest. A rich kid from an upper middle-class family will, on average, be better positioned to attend the expensive school compared to their poorer counterpart. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. In the vein of "Not being Lazy", I will not provide a "Too Long Didn't Read" (TDLR) notice.
My son struggled with a high level math (some form of calculus) class in college. He was going to fail it so he dropped out before the final, and took it a second time with a different professor. Whether it was a different professor or he was a bit ahead the second time, I don't know, but he did pass with a respectable grade the second time. This math often weeded out students so it was not surprising some had a very hard time. Maybe this professor just taught a extremely difficult subject that not all students could grasp well enough to pass. Or maybe they needed more background learning to do before tackling his class. Added: to blame on professor is not how the real world works.
So we have a number of factors-- 1. The professor is well-renowned and has tremendous academic value to offer students as a result. 2. Even at the collegiate level, the number of renowned professors available to replace him has to be particularly limited. 3. Personalities in math and science, in general, can be somewhat challenging, in comparisons to personalities that you might find in alternative fields, such as English Lit or social sciences. 4. The university could have worked with the professor to help support him to meet the changing needs of students. Firing him was, quite frankly, terribly short-sighted on their part. They lost talent that can no doubt go somewhere with more prestige and better pay.
I am near 80 years old and for what it's worth here is my life's wisdom in a nutshell - the greatest teacher if you are open to the learning - is failure. I have indeed failed at many things over time, but I have also not failed at many other things as well. Each time and either way was a learning experience. People today, generally, and not limited to the young, are seemingly of the belief that failure is not an option, ergo to prevent it one chooses the soft(er) options and / or lowers the applied standards.
These are words of wisdom, thank you. When I was a college more than a decade ago, I failed Calculus. It was crushing because I had almost a 4.0 before-however I took it again and pass with an A. Now every time life gets tough, I think-well it can’t be harder than calculus.
The look on their faces when they realize this has been turned into a "kids are lazy" story instead of an "academia is broken" story. They literally led with "people are blaming the kids too much. This is a problem with the administration," and Mika comes back with, "yeah, but isn't it the lazy kids' fault?"
More damaging information from one of our most progressive institutions of higher learning. Maybe he should’ve allowed these students(?) to skim through something as critical as organic chemistry.. Maybe it is the chancellor and the governing board of NYU that should be fired.
I would have more questions. Did a faculty member audit his classes to see for themselves? Were kids paying attention? Most of all - did the students have proper prior preparation? Was a TA available to help/Was a help-study time available? Often, students are accepted into courses without adequate preparation/knowledge/study skills. Organic chem in college requires solid math skills, ability to think beyond memorization, ability to struggle. When learning, truly learning new info that is not in your brain - there are no prior connections - bc your brain can't "find" it, your brain may give you a feeling of frustration or struggle. If students are used to multiple choice or other crutches, this will be doubly hard and may require tutoring or retraining how to learn and apply new material. If a prof is used to students doing the above on their own, there is a mismatch. Again, I'd ask what other resources were available and did the students use those resources. I've had courses in biochem and physics, where a prof had to teach basic algebra, not even calc, b4 some students could grasp the material and move forward. Sounds like a university problem, not a single professor.
Organic chem is kinda unique in how deeply it *does* rely on memorization. That’s why it’s such a shock to most students. I don’t think there are many other courses like that. Even history has a narrative that leads one’s brain from one fact to the next. All the professor has to do on day 1 is say: “Make your own flash cards every day of class. This is a really easy class if you know from the start that a LOT memorization is all that separates this class from any other, in terms of how to acquire the knowledge necessary to ace it.” Organic chem is only a “flunk-out” class if you don’t figure this out, and if the professor doesn’t bother to teach “how to learn.”
Yes, the audit you describe should have been part of this professor’s due process absence of which should be the basis for him suing for damages and restitution. If the due process was lacking it reveals another situation of concern and that is the composition of the university’s board of directors and the protocol, if any, followed to arrive at his dismissal. It has been recently demonstrated at a very high level in this country that CEOs, captains of industry and people used to run things their own way mainly outside of the constrains of a box, without the necessary accountability are not capable of managing things like democratic service oriented or not for profit institutions, government or others such as are constituted under law, and guided by them laws and accountable to the people they are meant to serve. Are the people of the State of New York better served by the presence of the prestigious professor in their program or by his dismissal? Is there anyone else? I hope we find out!
@@leifotto4277 I can not speak about organic chemistry. I can speak about graduate level courses about immigration law for Legacy DOJ Immigration Inspector taken in a 12 week program and can tell you is the same situation unless you are 46 years old already like I was in 2003 and got a passing rating. All the while having to qualify with a firearm and meet all the physical standards including including hand to hand, physical restraints, use of force, the psychological evaluation, report writing, computer Data Base operation, investigative techniques including interrogation of civilians and crocs training into drug enforcement, Customs and Agriculture Enforcement at Ports of Entry into The US. What do you think?
I hated college. One of the things that bugged me the most was the first day of class, when all these hands would be raised and the kids would basically ask ten versions of "What's the bare minimum we have to do to get a passing grade?" "How are you going to grade this?" "Will there be any extra credit?" And the instructor would have to waste time going over all this garbage.
@@rafaelvelez1253 every college course involves a lot of new information to remember. Whether a large collection of facts is easy or hard to remember depends on the characteristics of the collection. For example: it’s easier to remember facts that are related by a story or chronological process that one can visualize, e.g. History follows a narrative; investigative procedures all have an intention to go from not knowing, to knowing; combat techniques flow from threat to neutralization of threat; and so on. Lots of info, but all related by a “thread,” so it’s not too difficult. Things you do physically or can visualize based on your prior experiences are easier to remember. Even law has familiar areas of application and *some* logic in how it identifies injustice. Organic chemistry is very different. Molecular structures are not things one can touch, interact with, or even see directly. The groupings of similar facts are so numerous and have so few facts within each group, that similarities only help a little in remembering them. And, the several hundred, mostly dissimilar facts one must memorize are absolutely essential to even understand discussions about the heart of the course: the dynamics of reactions between organic molecules - which is itself something one can never see or handle directly at the molecular level. So, unlike just about any other course, you have to use flash cards to impress several hundred abstract facts into your brain (since you never observe them directly), and then IF you fail to master that broad and deep vocabulary (because no other course you’ve taken requires a similar feat of you), then you are totally lost by the later discussions that USE that vocabulary. The last half of the semester is like sitting in a class where the professor is speaking a different language - literally. So, anyone who is not given this overview, and who doesn’t do something very deliberate to memorize lots of unrelated and “unrelated-to-able” facts (like making a 500 card deck of flash cards (like I did), is going to have a very hard time passing. Hence the popular opinion that “organic chem is a flunk-out class.” Does all that make sense? 🌿
Wait a minute, lets get this straight...this is a pre-med 'weed out' class at one of the largest private universities in the world....and these students are expecting hand-holding? At NYU??? Then dont take organic chem, if you cant get through it by yourself. And dont go to a Giant R1 like NYU if you need individual attention at your 600+ student lectures.
If Professor Jones had a strong research program that brought in a few million in grant money, he wouldn't be fired even if every single one of the 350 students in his class complained.
Simple question - would you like to be treated by a doctor who got through exams of the highest standards or would you like someone who passed a diluted exam just because there was a pandemic at that time? Would you like a product developed by an ace student or someone who got his degree because everyone were given a pass due to the pandemic? If we dilute exams that's a bad precedent unless its at a very low level like for small kids. Reasons don't matter but standards have to be upheld
God forbid people be challenged. Not in America. Most people are so selfish and entitled and think that the world owes them an easy life with whatever they want. Put in effort. Work hard. Be an independent, contributing and law-abiding member of society. Grow up.
I took organic chemistry. I passed. Cried EVERYDAY but, I passed. The subject is difficult but what is the most difficult is that most organic professors are NOT teachers. They know the subject but do not know how to teach.
It gets worse in graduate school. When I did my master/s at Polytechnic (now part of NYC), most graduate students were paid by their employers to go to school. A number of them flat out told the professors that they wouldn't stay with the program unless that got at least a B because their employers wouldn't pay for it otherwise. And it was actually easier to get an A as a graduate student than the undergraduate students.
4 years of university are about developing our ability to think, not about grades. How much of our university course content are actually used in our professional career vs how much of the thinking process they force on us? We should be so lucky to have professors who challenge us.
Yes, the ability to think is very important and so is the ability to confront adversity such as a graded program with standards you have to meet in order to progress. But a University is not a tech college focused in the specific knowledge of your chosen career, which by the way does not pan for everybody hence the millions working out side of their chosen academic fields, it is a universal program meant to create a better rounded person with skills, interests and growth capacity to function in life out side of specific career paths. Professional success is a component of Life success not necessarily the other way around. Challenges are the heat that temper our mettle as it is plunged into the cold hard facts of life.
Problem is university is promoted so much at high school kids "you will end up in the streets if you don't go" that they blindly choose it after high school. Hence why so many are there to either please their parents or follow convential wisdom rather than a love of learning as many schools do not foster this at all.
Standards at many universities have been declining for years due to ill prepared students who lack the skills and maturity along with unreasonable expectations. If they don’t get As and Bs they complain to department heads and deans. Given that the majority of faculty doing the actual teaching are adjunct faculty who in most cases have short contracts, many for a year or less and can be dismissed without cause, the quality of education has dropped to the level of the lowest student denominator. University leadership has become fat and lazy. They are the most overpaid, underworked group of professionals sucking away at resources and hogging university budgets. Many simply don’t care about the public good or the long term educational welfare of the individual students they serve. As at local school districts, it is all reduced to test scores and other objective data, including endowments. Pitiful. I know this having supervised graduates of doctoral programs who communicate poorly, whine when they receive respectful, direct feedback, and undergraduates with whom I’ve taken courses who don’t know how to conduct research at the library, study, write a paper, nor make presentations. It’s truly abysmal.
The phone has destroyed the ability for the human mind to retain information. Learning has become disabled. I am a former English teacher. There is a serious irrefutable catastrophe resulting from the explosion of cell phones and smartphones in our society. I saw it first hand as smartphones emerged in the teaching environment and among students of all ages.
@@Red-Brick-Dream I didn't use "after". Therefore, I do not understand the quotation. Where are you headed here? English. It's not just an adjective. It's a language.
@@Red-Brick-Dream incidentally, was that a slight? I mean the crack about "humanities"? Your life is saved a thousand times a day by Humanities graduates, so you know, dial it back.
If you want an easy A, you should know Organic Chemistry is not one of those subjects. Not everyone is meant to be organic chemist, just like not everyone is meant to be in NBA or NFL players. To punish a professor, because he’s not willing lower his standard is like why is NBA not letting average kids playing in the game.
I went back to college later in life. ALL the students said no one got an A in a certain professor's required course. I got an A and took another class of his as an elective (got an A in that class, too). Graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA.
3:18 disagree. I've been working at home for 2 1/2 years and the way I teach my team has evolved but the standards haven't relaxed, it's just different.
I remember I screwed up a test. I missed the first open circle and threw off the whole thing. I went to my Prof and showed him that all of the answers were correct if you just factored that in. He did not give me any leeway whatsoever. Did I call for him to be fired NO. I screwed up.
Oh I've experienced this teaching in nursing school and dentistry at a private school. This is why college graduates are useless in the workplace. Helicopter parents really damage their kid's chances in life, make grown adults dependent on leniency instead of developing any resiliency, and it's only worse after the pandemic.
Wow, this is the first video I have seen from this network where dems and reps can agree. Please let this be a reminder that we all have more in common with each other than we do with the millionaires and billionaires. We are all just doing what we believe is best for everybody.
This is so wrong! First: Organic chemistry is specially difficult subject; secondly: Professors have no obligations to pass a "non-qualified" student. So, firing the professor because his class is hard is totally wrong. If he fails to teach is another matter. Please, keep our higher education standards high.
He was fired because he taught a difficult subject *and did nothing to help the students manage that.* Material needs to be presented in a fair way, and the professor needs to take agency of ensuring his students pass. If the other organic chemistry teachers aren't having the same problem, the common factor is the teacher. I've had a similar situation, though it was in high school. Had a genius for a math teacher, but virtually *everyone* saw a reduction of 10% or more from their usual math grade when they got into his class. Some of us weren't putting in the effort, but the smartest, hardest-working kids I knew (you know, the ones who would always get mid-90s or higher) were suddenly barely scraping 80s. My math mark was about 15% lower in grade 11 than it was in 10 or 12, and that was the norm for anyone who had this teacher. Sometimes it's okay to listen to kids when they complain things are too hard. They're deferring to adults for their education, and not all adults are good at their jobs. I'm sure you understand that.
Yeah, but we have turned education into a business. Students are now "customers." In today's world, if you don't like the sweater you bought from Wal-Mart, you take return it and get your money back---no questions asked. If a restaurant is 2 minutes late seating you, you demand they comp something. The customer is king. If you get a failing grade, of course you're going to expect the same kind of "we'll make it right" attitude from the university. Education shouldn't be run like a for-profit business. Tax the rich and make education from kindergarten through college free. But also demand that, since it's free, it's going to be a real education. We can't have chemists that don't know chemistry or surgeons who don't know surgery.
Congratulations to NYU for putting money before academic excellence. Late stage capitalism is leading to the end of our education system. Can't handle organic chemistry? Choose a different major. Not everyone is supposed to be a physician or chemist.
Have had plenty of professors with all kinds of credentials and they sucked at teaching. The schools make more money and obtain grants through research than teaching. College is and always has been a business, not a service.
In my undergrad was a psych maj pre med minor. My biochem prof inflated the grade from a D to a C+. He told me "you know what you call a premed student who gets a C in Biochem?...a podiatrist or dentist. Biochem was meant to be tough bc it's an essential class as a catalyst in saving people's lives. NYU lost out...though he will get a tenured position at a real college
This is NOT elementary school, with a class failing their SATS! These are grown azzed adults. Obviously, they are incapable of taking responsibility for their own shortcomings. The Professor is not to blame for their inadequacy as students.....they are! Unnaceptable! 😕
On the contrary, a degree in a field means you know it. Some teachers should not teach, the ones that thinking teaching is a skill, and have no concept of the field they are supposed to teach.
Unreal how much this is happening. Lowering all our standards is just bringing our country to a lower place. Certain people don’t want this country to be on top.
I taught college for 28 years and witnessed a lot of change. On the positive, students have become less rascist, sexist and homophobic. They tend to be kinder to their peer group but they judge the previous harshly and often without any historical knowledge. They are more easily whipped into a group frenzy before knowing all circumstance. They are not very literate and numeracy skills are lagging. Even given what I deem to be a changing definition of literacy many of my students would claim to have not read and all profs have had the question "do I need to buy the book ..." Even if that may sometimes be a fair question I have seen the fundamental and consequential erosion of basic tenets of learning. What is most disturbing is their fundamental believe that there will always be someone else to come along to fix any of their issues ... not unlike Romans before the Fall.
The reason students ask about needing the book is because textbooks are so ridicuously expensive and some professors who say they are required for the course end up not using it.
I acquired a degree in Electrical Engineering in 1963. Chemistry back then was known as pre business administration as the students shifted majors due to failures.
In math, I came up with the following equation limit as GPA --> 0 M = Business M is for Major. I knew a great many pre business students as, being in math, I always hung out with the math/science crowd. Some of my engineering friends took Calc 1, 2 and 3, as they had to, but took 9 semesters to get through them - 3 semesters for each one.
Thank goodness that this has finally happened. Now they'll finally make military basic training (and special forces) easier so that everyone can get a medal.
@Greg Maybe Sir Casm is a right winger and made silly comments on other issues, but in this point he's right. At least as I understand him. It shouldn't depend on mommy's or daddy's bank account weather someone can go to university, but only on your own performance and nothing else. If you're not good enough for university then the problem is you, not the university or the professor. In my opinion all universities and colleges should be free and tax payer funded, but only accessible for people who have a certain degree, as it is the case in large parts of europe. So you can make sure that education is not dependend on the wallet of the parents, but only on the performance of the students.
good question about "open door relationship with students" because indeed the only professor that I recall had an open door was my english professor. All other subject areas had "teaching assistants" to fill in students gaps. I even became one for 2 years so I see and, do recall, some of these instructional gaps.
Would you want your physician to take an easier class or work harder to learn what he will need to know as a physician? Crybaby students need a kick in the pants reality check.
This is why higher education needs to disconnected from monetary encirclment. Tuition should be free to anyone that wants it. If we make educational spending mandatory instead of discretionary parents would not have the power to threaten administrations with their wallets.
On face value this makes sense. But look at the Greek college system. Students can take as long as they want to finish their degrees because it's free. And the great part is that people study what they're actually interested in or gifted in. The not great part is that they hang around for 20 years and never finish their degree. We don't need a society full of middle-aged college students who haven't started working. Surely management can think of some solution better than the two extremes though
PS to my earlier comment: overall, parents garner far too great an influence on schools and places of higher and further education in the US than anywhere else in the western world. Do patients try to tell physicians how to treat them, surgeons how to operate? Do passengers try telling pilots how to fly their aeroplane, or ratings' parents tell admirals how to command a strike force? Too many in the US simply think they know everything.
When I was in college there were several classes where almost half the class left because the professors were really not teaching anything. They told us to read from a book and then tested us. Several times the tests didn't cover anything that we read. We knew they had dropped the ball and needed to leave so we could end up learning something. I didn't regret it at all.
Professor had low levels or too high of standards and isn’t this the generation that gets a prize for just showing up. Sounds like these students are too busy socializing with each other and scapegoated the Professor.
We should not give away grades to rich people, but if most of the students were failing, he was failing to engage, teach or support the students. Makes me wonder why he left a tenured position for a adjunct position. Maybe he is so intelligent that he has a hard time teaching.
Some brilliant people are horrid teachers, and that is a large amount of kids to complain about the class. I struggled in Ochem class but studied it alone in the summer and it was understandable. If you pay this much for college, shouldn't the university be able to afford brilliant, good teachers?
Why leave a tenured position at a top Ivy league school at Princeton? On the other hand if his curriculum and exams were reviewed by other professors and they were deemed fair, he should not be fired despite student petition. He must not have graded on a curve 🤣🤣🤣
All the professor has to do on day 1 is say: “Make your own flash cards every day of class. This is a really easy class if you know from the start that a LOT memorization is all that separates this class from any other, in terms of how to acquire the knowledge necessary to ace it.” Organic chem is only a “flunk-out” class if you don’t figure this out, and if the professor doesn’t bother to teach “how to learn.”
@@leifotto4277 I think you've hit on a key issue here: was he helping his students learn how to learn? That's what good teachers do, I think, based on my forty years of college teaching. But I say A key point rather than THE key point because this report doesn't give us enough factual information to understand why he was actually fired--because of incompetence in the classroom, entitled students, pressure from donors, or some other reason altogether.
Was this guy a new teacher? Could be he’s a genius but just bad at teaching. I feel like this video doesn’t give us enough details to determine who actually deserves the blame here.
I aced organic chemistry. What the heck? Difficult classes are challenging but those are often the best teachers. I see where Covid might be disruptive. This is true with education, news, any public good…..any time it becomes a commodity it is vulnerable to pressure.
I was an adjunct professor for one year. I was called into the Dept heads' office over a low grade that I gave one student. Told that this students were big donors and I had to rise his grade I pushed back that it would be unfair to the other students that had done the work. The department chair insisted that the grade would be raised. I obeyed and raised his grade and the grades of every other student accordingly. Wealthy people are the biggest law breakers, cheaters, and rule breakers. Privilege for the privileged.
The real law breaker was the department chair who sold his ethics, and yours.
As long as you were not an English professor, I am on your side in this case.
@@frankmartin8471 Well Frank, Her degree was in history, I told her that is where she belonged. The experience confirmed why I never wanted to be a part of such institutions. Most, not all, of the professors had no problem selling out a students future if it furthered theirs.
@@peterjonas4971 Ha! I guess chemistry professors don't need to know basic grammar.
Yeah, the audacity of brat students who are really not that smart and their entitled rich parents, but that's the reality. It is just unfair to other students who are really studying very hard in order to attain high grades!
Primary prerequisite for medical doctors...and they want to dumb that down...
...well, makes perfect sense in 2022.
Idiocracy in real life...
Sad but true.
Thanks to Maga
@@joshuagharis9017 LOL MAGA? This is 100% on Woke Lefties.
You people are beyond help.
The way this usually works: we give the lowest possible non-failing grade to bad students. Then any serious grad school immediately knows what is going on.
@@joshuagharis9017 Sarcasm?
Students fail organic chemistry all the time, that's not the professor's fault. It's a field of study that requires an immense basic understanding and still forces students to study for countless hours without any guarantee that you understand it enough to pass. You need a personality fitting the field to succeed in organic chemistry. You need to enjoy balancing equations all the time, and reading books that most other people could hardly pronounce the title. You cannot force somebody to "undertand" organic chemistry, and there are no "easy" courses.
And of course, students who end up with the "bad" professor are usually the ones waiting for the very last moment to inform themselves on what will be expected of them and what their choices are. And all of these students end up in the "bad" course, leading to extremely high failure rates in those courses. I was "warned" multiple times of "bad" educators, only to find that when I did my research these turned out to be the most qualified in their field.
Well, from the coverage here whether or not the guy is a good teacher can not be known; perhaps he was a brilliant research professor at Princeton, and he just isn't a very good communicator so he isn't a good teacher (some complaints about him are cited here, but their veracity cannot be determined here). This is possible, and your take is possible, and so are loads of other possibilities.
@@chonqmonk No matter how good communicators are, they can't be open to everyone. Some people just don't have the relevant skills. They should look for other ways instead of expelling teachers. You will only hurt your country by indulging your students. Look at sls until now Can't go to heaven.
Says someone who probably never took Organic Chemistry in their life. I took first and second year Organic Chemistry. I loved it, at least compared to Biochemistry. First year is super easy, basically electron rearrangements, but second year? I'd like to see you reconstruct a molecule based on nothing but NMR and IR spectroscopy and vice versa without a cheat sheet -- which we were allowed. Literally looking at a bunch of weird spikes and plateaus and trying to figure out how the molecule split the IR beam
Ochem have 50% failure rate nation wide in the US. With Calculus part 2, both are considered the two toughest weeder courses in college for med/STEM degree. We need to see if the prof’s failure rate is within the average failure rate of 50% or perhaps use the avg failure rate of all the Ochem courses at NYU with 95% confidence interval. It’s simple stats that the uni can do since they have records of all his grades from previous semesters. If 90% of his students fail, then yeah that sounds odd. But if they are within avg then those students need to retake or switch major.
When I was at university, admittedly not in the US, several students complained about one professor's particularly challenging expectations of his students. The subject was paediatric psychology. When a dozen parents complained to the Dean, she held a faculty conference, including student members of the University Senate. The result: students were told to get serious about their career choice as physicians; parents were politely told to butt out. The message was simple. If the subject is too difficult for you, look for an easier subject, or look for a university with lower expectations.
Ah but my Johnny should be playing 'Full Forward' and NOT DEFENSE!
Can you imagine getting a pass for years through medical school, and only then -- when you have killed your patients -- being stopped?
I like that University, which country was it in?
@@amberfoster3285 ????? If you like the university how did you miss the fact which country it's in? New York University - figure it out.
@@Slayer398 OP says it was NOT in the US... Read back the first line...
The university sent the wrong message to the staff and students.
THIS is why the US ranks #30 in the world in Math and #19 in Science. Think about that for a minute.
It's also because Americans refuse to give up their superstitions and myths about how the universe came into being and the darker parts of their country's history.
When I failed chemistry back in school it wasn't because the course was too difficult, it was because I never asked for help when I didn't understand stuff.
Yes. This may not apply to you, but often people say "I'm terrible at...." and if it's STEM or a higher level course in any discipline, that is acceptable, vs finding help or guidance. When really what needs addressing is the fear behind it. When people learn they can master the material, that fear drops away and they learn all kinds of things.
There IS a difference between knowing a subject and teaching a subject. I have experienced professors whose subject came so easily to them that they could not understand why students had difficulty with it.
@@deea6240 That's why teachers take classes to learn how to teach.
@@deea6240 this guy has been a renowned teacher for years though so...
@@deea6240 why are you in the course
Respect be given to this professor. Education shouldn't in any way be compromised for the sake of pass
Some teachers can't teach they just show you a book and give you test... real teachers draw you into the subject... I'm not sure where he is at on that scale
@@scottsthaname1 He has had decades of experience so I'm sure that he was a great professor.
Bad professors don't last long but he clearly did at Princeton
@@jimmy79889 I've seen professors go through to retirement with crap teaching skills... but... I've never sat in his class so I don't know
@@scottsthaname1 In college I was asked to be a math tutor by one of my professors. He wasn’t the nicest or most friendly professor but he was very good and open to help students during his office hours, The next semester I had such a horrible physics professor. Very condescending and when I would go and ask questions during his office hours, our final was thankfully graded on a curve.
Except there are years of complaints about this professor. He's a good researcher, but his teaching skills were apparently lacking. He had a reputation for naming and shaming the lowest scoring student in class following tests. Even disclosing who got the lowest score is legally problematic. He apparently also intentionally made his class and tests more confusing than necessary to actually understand the subject matter.
Complaining that organic chemistry is too difficult is like complaining that the sun is too hot.
To be fair the sun is really hot.
They say.. thst o chem is tge biggest predictor to eho will become a good doctor. Having had zero chem classes in h.s. ... o vhem was tough.
However o chem was also highly self.nourishing. ;)
Its... different.
My father had to repeat his first year at Johns Hopkins 1957. After 40+ years as a plastic surgeon he retired with a 97% success record for digit replacement. (if you lost fingers or a hand, you had a good chance at full recovery if he saw you in the emergency room)
He never once blamed the faculty for his early inability to pass a grade.
NYU has very privileged students for the most part - it now costs over $80k per year to attend. I have no doubt that many students signed up for Jones’ class specifically because he’s the prestigious Princeton guy and they wanted to tout that in any future application. They should have known what they were getting in to. Notably, Jones’ has been supported by other faculty in his department. That suggests that other faculty has been pressured as well. NYU administration has done this kind of thing before, pressured faculty to change grades or lower standards. Heck, I’ve heard of NYU students pressuring faculty directly to give a certain grade. There’s a reason why old NYU alums like me (I went before costs became sky high) are so disappointed with the way the school has gone.
Ahh this is one piece of info the news did not cover. I was curious if his failure rates is more than 50%, which is about the nation’s standard. It’s suppose to be the hardest course, along with Calculus 2 for college students. Most don’t pass the first round so they take it again-it’s life. These NYU students don’t seem to take failure well.
It comes down to the fact that standards at the high school level have been declining as well as at the collegiate level for decades.
Periodically we get a teacher or a professor who still has some standard of excellence and they are incapable of lowering themselves to the level of mediocrity the bulk of the student body exhibits.
I can remember the start of the decline in the early 60s. It is still ongoing.
@@frankmartin8471 can really see it through several decades of text books too.
I am sixty. When I was twenty, My history teacher told me that the work that HE had to do in order to get his diploma was twice the amount that a current student had to do. I said "So it will get down that in order to get a diploma the student must know how to boil oatmeal." The Professor assented. And now, forty years later, look where we are, and the intelligence level of college students has markedly declined.
IDIOCRACY
It seems to be both. Appears to me that students are being buried with an excess of technical information at earlier ages, which we used to get in higher grade levels. There also seems to be zero focus on analytic/critical thinking skills, which is concerning. At the same time, that class material is dumbed down for mediocre students, and more pressure to have education be 'entertaining'. When I was earning a BS degree in 1980s, a professor showed me texts he used for his PhD, and it was dramatically less (quantity) than what we were expected to digest.
They terminated a professor because kids said the class was too hard? 🤦♂️
I quit teaching college level critical thinking last year. I couldn't deal with the current environment in academia, and I'm a center-left voter. I don't believe colleges should traffic in culture wars, conspiracies, grade inflation, or limiting academic freedom. I love Professor Glaude, but I don't think mollycoddling young adults is the solution.
Agree
I can only imagine how stressful it must have been to teach logic in these illogical times! It’s like speaking a language that few understand and many actively hate. Truly bizarre times.
In the above case, all the professor has to do on day 1 is say: “Make your own flash cards every day of class. This is a really easy class if you know from the start that a LOT memorization is all that separates this class from any other, in terms of how to acquire the knowledge necessary to ace it.” Organic chem is only a “flunk-out” class if you don’t figure this out, and if the professor doesn’t bother to teach “how to learn.”
Great comment and thank you for your educational service. They aren't mentioning specialized faculty at many universities who aren't in tenure tracks and can be fired after years of service by not being renewed. And all the things you mentioned are a serious concern.
Water is drippy wet, steam is floaty smoke, I could now pass Chemistry in America.
A very VERY small slice of the problem with higher education.
Entitled rich kids and their parents believing they deserve something they did NOT earn. This will encourage the dumbing down of this country.
Organic chemistry is really difficult and people fail because they just don't belong there. Do you want a doctor or a pharmacist who just can't cut their profession??Not everyone belongs where they are, and yes you are right, some people just are not willing to do the work it takes to do the job. Do something that is more along the lines of what you are able and willing to do. Its pitiful that NYU fired this professor. They have made themselves look less than a noteworthy University. Scary !
Came to say exactly THIS
Exactly
Anyone who’s been to med school in the last decade or two knows that organic chemistry is not necessary anymore. Would rather it be that intro CS be the weed out course in the 21st century
Yet I could not help to notice that this professor was so harsh to his students that they were afraid to ask him questions. While his expertise and renown in his field might be outstanding, it appears to me that he is a poor teacher. By definition, students have lesser knowledge than their teachers do. What kind of teacher makes it more difficult to share his knowledge with students? Nobody ought to be afraid to ask questions in an educational environment.
If the class is breaking so many people perhaps it needs to be broken into several smaller chunks that are more manageable.
I was in advanced math from a very early age. As such I had an advanced trig class in my first year of high school. I failed. I did not whine that it was the teachers fault. My parents didn’t blame my teacher. I simply hated the class and tuned out. I deserved to fail. That teacher was one of my favorite teachers and actually helped save me from myself at a very pivotal time in my life where I was at a crossroads.
"Advanced trig class in first year of high school"? I don't think so. That's not a thing. The most advanved students have Algebra 1 in 6th grade, Geometry in 7th grade, Algebra 2 in 8th grade, and Precalculus in 9th grade. Those are absolutely the most super-advanced students. So as a freshman you could have been in Precalculus, which contains some trigonometry, but there's zero chance you were in "an advanced trig class" in your first year of high school because there is no such thing and it doesn't even make sense.
@@ChrisZ70 There are many schools with different configurations. For an example, our high school only contains grades 10 - 12. Also our Trig and Pre Calc are done together in the same year before Calculus A/B, B/C, and 3/4.
@@ChrisZ70 Currently, the HS students in Ohio can take college level courses if they maintain a B or better average. So, for example, I have had HS students taking all 3 calculuses, differential equations and linear algebra. Calc 1 and 2 are labeled as freshmen classes in college, while calc 3 is sophomore. Differential equations and linear algebra both go for either college sophomore or junior courses, depending on the school.
I have had sophomore HS students who take my college junior level courses. They are, as you'd imagine, very smart and motivated young people. The only bad problem is that these students sometimes have heli-mower parents.
@@ChrisZ70 He may not be American... School systems differ from one country to another.
I hope those 82 students never get into a position in any field.
Man up, work harder and party less.
This problem in education goes all the way to the elementary level. Administration responds, not in the interest of educating children, but to the weight of parents complaining on behalf of their pampered children. The COVID generation of students are an outlier to the downward trend of education. God help us.
The new American Dream. You want your child to do nothing yet have everything.
Organic chemistry is a really difficult class. Students need to put in more effort.
As a consumer myself, I'd like to hire the smarter Dr. who can pass this professors course.
👏👏👏
How, exactly, do you "consume" an education? Frankly, the attitude that an education is a "consumable product" is at the core of the problem. i.e. "The customer is ALWAYS right."
@@KarenParkerArtist We pay for the expertise of people who have been thoroughly vetted. if we're paying for people whose education reflects coddling and not actual skill acquisition, then we're being cheated as consumers, and we will pay the price, and so will they in the form of malpractice suits.
@@jakevendrotti1496 And you completely missed my point. In fact, you generally agree with my views as a college instructor. Knowledge and learning are not capitalist "products".
Over the decades I've dealt with these exact same students. And consistently had my refusal to adjust their grades overturned by my boss or my boss' boss.
Great example of how education is conducted in the U$
This is wrong, when it comes to higher education challenge should be expected. Courses should not be so easy you can spend a night before finals cramming to pass.
Exactly I took Organic Chemistry while at UIC here in Chicago, and it was a challenging class. So I buckle down got a tutor, did the work and passed with an A. College is supposed to challenge you it’s not supposed to be easy.
The students who complained likely also complained the class wasn't asynchronous and that the exam was in person so they can cheat on Chegg during the exams as well
Universities have been pandering to students for years now, and this case is no different. Give us your money and we'll hook you up with a degree. I see ads for e-MBAs all the time, no GMAT and no exams. Send them your credit card info and they'll give you a degree.
yep...universities have become a business, and the customers are students...customer is always right^^
@@Raussl The flip is, M.B.A degree programs aren't cheap. I agree that some M.B.A programs aren't good. In fact their insistence on a non-grade curriculum is highly suspicious. If anything, I would expect some sort of entry level competency exam. Is it fair to all students, especially ones who may be seeking out a M.B.A 10 years after they first graduated college?, maybe. For local community colleges though, this is standard. You have people from all walks of life coming in to take classes and no guarantees on what or how much they have had to use their math, reading, or writing skills or scholastic research abilities. The final result of your M.B.A gotten online, also includes the typical challenge work and consultation with advisors that a regular Master's Thesis would advise. They don't skip out on that part of the process, although I assume you, of the old school variety public, have never actually tried an online collegiate course, be it for a B.A or an M.B.A. I know what I am talking about because I have had to do continuing Ed. credits in an online setting as well as in person. While implementation is rough (dare I say it mostly from old fuddie duddies who still believe in person/Uni classes are the only way to go.) class requirements and schedules for what constitutes an equal degree credit whether taken online or in person, has become far more standardized.
An M.B.A from a decent online program includes plenty of research and check-ins or advisory periods so you can keep up to date with what you need to receive your degree. If anything, I would say online classes are harder than in-person lectures at any level because instead of a "butt-in-seat-for-credit" option, everything is based solely on book work and your ability to communicate via text. Worse, setting up a home lab or doing presentations via webcam with family around is as nerve wracking as getting up in front of your peers in a lecture hall and requires more technical savvy than I had to have taking my own college courses.
To anyone still opposed, consider this:
The cost of textbooks and higher learning materials actually puts a further impetus on the poor to remain poor because self teaching is an expensive endeavor. Research writing skills and materials are available but only after buying a textbook that costs anywhere from $40-80 dollars/book. Then you have to have someone else check the work and provide feedback. At that point you are studying like you are at a college campus but then, you wouldn't be self-educating if you had the resources to get into a community college in the first place.
Some people got good grades but can't afford to take the several years off it would take to get a degree. In today's world, that means getting online and applying to some of the less stringent programs. Recruiters can complain, colleges can complain, but nobody gives anyone near the amount of aide as a fresh eyed bushy tailed Undergrad student. It's highly likely that an older student has other day to day job requirements that means relocating to do a Master's degree isn't helpful. Likewise, if B.A students roll directly into a M.B.A program with no prior work experience before they attend, getting hired is on the outside is even harder. They have less chance than the currently employed B.A senior for being hired because they actually know what goes on inside a company. The catch-22 where people complain about kids being ill-educated wannabe's whilst also having a bunch of unemployed "I went through a Master's program with my under grad degree but never worked in my chose field" kid graduates is something you, amongst others, fail to consider.
A solution to the problem would be changing the way we view University and College attendance. Colleges could solve their problems by updating course curriculums to reflect the modern era and apply any and all financial aide to both in person and online learning facilities. There will never be a day where we don't need some aspect of a physical campus for certain learning goals but likewise, sitting in a lecture hall when most people can find some place with internet and a computer off of Ebay in good shape to do academic research is also asinine.
IF you want kids to have work experience, make sure your Uni. or college has placement opportunities and offers jobs both during and after a students degree program which means they don't have to be stuck busting tail as a waitress or store clerk whilst also trying to get into an internship program. Some kids, in fact many of them, don't come into the college environment funded by mummy and daddy's college fund, let alone housing options. Especially if you came from a generation where your parents could afford college after working a minimum wage job they likely never bothered to set up a college fund, anticipating school would be as cheap for their kids then, as it was for them. This is obviously not the case and the flip side of that is that private schools or even more expensive out of state schools have better social networks than local small town colleges. What you gain in affordability by staying local in a small town, you lose in networking capabilities. What this means is that the poor will stay poor. They can't afford to move until they are absolutely certain that the degree of choice will pan out and that they have the academic chops to survive the program, let alone the interest. A rich kid from an upper middle-class family will, on average, be better positioned to attend the expensive school compared to their poorer counterpart.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. In the vein of "Not being Lazy", I will not provide a "Too Long Didn't Read" (TDLR) notice.
My son struggled with a high level math (some form of calculus) class in college. He was going to fail it so he dropped out before the final, and took it a second time with a different professor. Whether it was a different professor or he was a bit ahead the second time, I don't know, but he did pass with a respectable grade the second time. This math often weeded out students so it was not surprising some had a very hard time. Maybe this professor just taught a extremely difficult subject that not all students could grasp well enough to pass. Or maybe they needed more background learning to do before tackling his class.
Added: to blame on professor is not how the real world works.
U wrong the second prof just gave fake easy grades so u can shut your mouth! Its your son fault if he failed the first not the prof!
Talk about the literally dumbing down of America right in front of our eyes
So we have a number of factors--
1. The professor is well-renowned and has tremendous academic value to offer students as a result.
2. Even at the collegiate level, the number of renowned professors available to replace him has to be particularly limited.
3. Personalities in math and science, in general, can be somewhat challenging, in comparisons to personalities that you might find in alternative fields, such as English Lit or social sciences.
4. The university could have worked with the professor to help support him to meet the changing needs of students. Firing him was, quite frankly, terribly short-sighted on their part.
They lost talent that can no doubt go somewhere with more prestige and better pay.
I am near 80 years old and for what it's worth here is my life's wisdom in a nutshell - the greatest teacher if you are open to the learning - is failure. I have indeed failed at many things over time, but I have also not failed at many other things as well. Each time and either way was a learning experience. People today, generally, and not limited to the young, are seemingly of the belief that failure is not an option, ergo to prevent it one chooses the soft(er) options and / or lowers the applied standards.
These are words of wisdom, thank you. When I was a college more than a decade ago, I failed Calculus. It was crushing because I had almost a 4.0 before-however I took it again and pass with an A. Now every time life gets tough, I think-well it can’t be harder than calculus.
Another case of kids who grew up pampered having a hissy fit.
The look on their faces when they realize this has been turned into a "kids are lazy" story instead of an "academia is broken" story. They literally led with "people are blaming the kids too much. This is a problem with the administration," and Mika comes back with, "yeah, but isn't it the lazy kids' fault?"
Now I know to check if a doctor I am considering came from NYU, if yes, I'll pass.
More damaging information from one of our most progressive institutions of higher learning. Maybe he should’ve allowed these students(?) to skim through something as critical as organic chemistry..
Maybe it is the chancellor and the governing board of NYU that should be fired.
I would have more questions. Did a faculty member audit his classes to see for themselves? Were kids paying attention? Most of all - did the students have proper prior preparation? Was a TA available to help/Was a help-study time available? Often, students are accepted into courses without adequate preparation/knowledge/study skills. Organic chem in college requires solid math skills, ability to think beyond memorization, ability to struggle. When learning, truly learning new info that is not in your brain - there are no prior connections - bc your brain can't "find" it, your brain may give you a feeling of frustration or struggle. If students are used to multiple choice or other crutches, this will be doubly hard and may require tutoring or retraining how to learn and apply new material. If a prof is used to students doing the above on their own, there is a mismatch. Again, I'd ask what other resources were available and did the students use those resources. I've had courses in biochem and physics, where a prof had to teach basic algebra, not even calc, b4 some students could grasp the material and move forward. Sounds like a university problem, not a single professor.
Organic chem is kinda unique in how deeply it *does* rely on memorization. That’s why it’s such a shock to most students. I don’t think there are many other courses like that. Even history has a narrative that leads one’s brain from one fact to the next.
All the professor has to do on day 1 is say: “Make your own flash cards every day of class. This is a really easy class if you know from the start that a LOT memorization is all that separates this class from any other, in terms of how to acquire the knowledge necessary to ace it.” Organic chem is only a “flunk-out” class if you don’t figure this out, and if the professor doesn’t bother to teach “how to learn.”
Yes, the audit you describe should have been part of this professor’s due process absence of which should be the basis for him suing for damages and restitution. If the due process was lacking it reveals another situation of concern and that is the composition of the university’s board of directors and the protocol, if any, followed to arrive at his dismissal. It has been recently demonstrated at a very high level in this country that CEOs, captains of industry and people used to run things their own way mainly outside of the constrains of a box, without the necessary accountability are not capable of managing things like democratic service oriented or not for profit institutions, government or others such as are constituted under law, and guided by them laws and accountable to the people they are meant to serve. Are the people of the State of New York better served by the presence of the prestigious professor in their program or by his dismissal? Is there anyone else? I hope we find out!
@@leifotto4277 I can not speak about organic chemistry. I can speak about graduate level courses about immigration law for Legacy DOJ Immigration Inspector taken in a 12 week program and can tell you is the same situation unless you are 46 years old already like I was in 2003 and got a passing rating. All the while having to qualify with a firearm and meet all the physical standards including including hand to hand, physical restraints, use of force, the psychological evaluation, report writing, computer Data Base operation, investigative techniques including interrogation of civilians and crocs training into drug enforcement, Customs and Agriculture Enforcement at Ports of Entry into The US. What do you think?
I hated college. One of the things that bugged me the most was the first day of class, when all these hands would be raised and the kids would basically ask ten versions of "What's the bare minimum we have to do to get a passing grade?" "How are you going to grade this?" "Will there be any extra credit?" And the instructor would have to waste time going over all this garbage.
@@rafaelvelez1253 every college course involves a lot of new information to remember. Whether a large collection of facts is easy or hard to remember depends on the characteristics of the collection. For example: it’s easier to remember facts that are related by a story or chronological process that one can visualize, e.g. History follows a narrative; investigative procedures all have an intention to go from not knowing, to knowing; combat techniques flow from threat to neutralization of threat; and so on. Lots of info, but all related by a “thread,” so it’s not too difficult. Things you do physically or can visualize based on your prior experiences are easier to remember. Even law has familiar areas of application and *some* logic in how it identifies injustice. Organic chemistry is very different. Molecular structures are not things one can touch, interact with, or even see directly. The groupings of similar facts are so numerous and have so few facts within each group, that similarities only help a little in remembering them. And, the several hundred, mostly dissimilar facts one must memorize are absolutely essential to even understand discussions about the heart of the course: the dynamics of reactions between organic molecules - which is itself something one can never see or handle directly at the molecular level. So, unlike just about any other course, you have to use flash cards to impress several hundred abstract facts into your brain (since you never observe them directly), and then IF you fail to master that broad and deep vocabulary (because no other course you’ve taken requires a similar feat of you), then you are totally lost by the later discussions that USE that vocabulary. The last half of the semester is like sitting in a class where the professor is speaking a different language - literally. So, anyone who is not given this overview, and who doesn’t do something very deliberate to memorize lots of unrelated and “unrelated-to-able” facts (like making a 500 card deck of flash cards (like I did), is going to have a very hard time passing. Hence the popular opinion that “organic chem is a flunk-out class.” Does all that make sense? 🌿
Wait a minute, lets get this straight...this is a pre-med 'weed out' class at one of the largest private universities in the world....and these students are expecting hand-holding? At NYU??? Then dont take organic chem, if you cant get through it by yourself. And dont go to a Giant R1 like NYU if you need individual attention at your 600+ student lectures.
If Professor Jones had a strong research program that brought in a few million in grant money, he wouldn't be fired even if every single one of the 350 students in his class complained.
Simple question - would you like to be treated by a doctor who got through exams of the highest standards or would you like someone who passed a diluted exam just because there was a pandemic at that time? Would you like a product developed by an ace student or someone who got his degree because everyone were given a pass due to the pandemic? If we dilute exams that's a bad precedent unless its at a very low level like for small kids. Reasons don't matter but standards have to be upheld
Well said!
Being book-smart doesn't always translate to the real world, though
God forbid people be challenged. Not in America. Most people are so selfish and entitled and think that the world owes them an easy life with whatever they want. Put in effort. Work hard. Be an independent, contributing and law-abiding member of society. Grow up.
Just hand them an A and a diploma in the mail
I took organic chemistry. I passed. Cried EVERYDAY but, I passed. The subject is difficult but what is the most difficult is that most organic professors are NOT teachers. They know the subject but do not know how to teach.
Taking money out of the equation solves the "blame" problem and forces quality.
It gets worse in graduate school. When I did my master/s at Polytechnic (now part of NYC), most graduate students were paid by their employers to go to school. A number of them flat out told the professors that they wouldn't stay with the program unless that got at least a B because their employers wouldn't pay for it otherwise. And it was actually easier to get an A as a graduate student than the undergraduate students.
4 years of university are about developing our ability to think, not about grades. How much of our university course content are actually used in our professional career vs how much of the thinking process they force on us? We should be so lucky to have professors who challenge us.
Yes, the ability to think is very important and so is the ability to confront adversity such as a graded program with standards you have to meet in order to progress. But a University is not a tech college focused in the specific knowledge of your chosen career, which by the way does not pan for everybody hence the millions working out side of their chosen academic fields, it is a universal program meant to create a better rounded person with skills, interests and growth capacity to function in life out side of specific career paths. Professional success is a component of Life success not necessarily the other way around. Challenges are the heat that temper our mettle as it is plunged into the cold hard facts of life.
Problem is university is promoted so much at high school kids "you will end up in the streets if you don't go" that they blindly choose it after high school. Hence why so many are there to either please their parents or follow convential wisdom rather than a love of learning as many schools do not foster this at all.
The continuing dumbing down of American youth. This has been going on for decades.
Standards at many universities have been declining for years due to ill prepared students who lack the skills and maturity along with unreasonable expectations. If they don’t get As and Bs they complain to department heads and deans. Given that the majority of faculty doing the actual teaching are adjunct faculty who in most cases have short contracts, many for a year or less and can be dismissed without cause, the quality of education has dropped to the level of the lowest student denominator. University leadership has become fat and lazy. They are the most overpaid, underworked group of professionals sucking away at resources and hogging university budgets. Many simply don’t care about the public good or the long term educational welfare of the individual students they serve. As at local school districts, it is all reduced to test scores and other objective data, including endowments. Pitiful. I know this having supervised graduates of doctoral programs who communicate poorly, whine when they receive respectful, direct feedback, and undergraduates with whom I’ve taken courses who don’t know how to conduct research at the library, study, write a paper, nor make presentations. It’s truly abysmal.
The phone has destroyed the ability for the human mind to retain information. Learning has become disabled. I am a former English teacher. There is a serious irrefutable catastrophe resulting from the explosion of cell phones and smartphones in our society. I saw it first hand as smartphones emerged in the teaching environment and among students of all ages.
Different brains are rotted by different toxic elements.
"After = because of"
Spoken like a true humanities grad.
@@Red-Brick-Dream I didn't use "after". Therefore, I do not understand the quotation. Where are you headed here? English. It's not just an adjective. It's a language.
@@Red-Brick-Dream incidentally, was that a slight? I mean the crack about "humanities"? Your life is saved a thousand times a day by Humanities graduates, so you know, dial it back.
Yes!
...which is why higher education should be free, like it is in Europe
If you want an easy A, you should know Organic Chemistry is not one of those subjects. Not everyone is meant to be organic chemist, just like not everyone is meant to be in NBA or NFL players. To punish a professor, because he’s not willing lower his standard is like why is NBA not letting average kids playing in the game.
Saw story. The prof was SCREWED OVER😠
NYU looking bad right now
This is how we get doctors who have graduated, and use google to diagnose symptoms, while you sit for the 10min consultation,
I went back to college later in life. ALL the students said no one got an A in a certain professor's required course. I got an A and took another class of his as an elective (got an A in that class, too). Graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA.
3:18 disagree. I've been working at home for 2 1/2 years and the way I teach my team has evolved but the standards haven't relaxed, it's just different.
The latest case of the push for grade inflation. Everybody feels entitled to graduate with honors.
Everyone gets a trophy.
I would love to be operated on by a doctor that found it "too difficult" ...
I remember I screwed up a test. I missed the first open circle and threw off the whole thing. I went to my Prof and showed him that all of the answers were correct if you just factored that in.
He did not give me any leeway whatsoever. Did I call for him to be fired NO. I screwed up.
Oh I've experienced this teaching in nursing school and dentistry at a private school. This is why college graduates are useless in the workplace. Helicopter parents really damage their kid's chances in life, make grown adults dependent on leniency instead of developing any resiliency, and it's only worse after the pandemic.
Professors only deserve to be fired if there entire lecture is predicated on reading off PowerPoint slides.
Students have become lazy…
Wow, this is the first video I have seen from this network where dems and reps can agree. Please let this be a reminder that we all have more in common with each other than we do with the millionaires and billionaires. We are all just doing what we believe is best for everybody.
True! Pin this please, someone 📌
So stop voting for millionaires and billionaires??? Wtf????
This is so wrong! First: Organic chemistry is specially difficult subject; secondly: Professors have no obligations to pass a "non-qualified" student. So, firing the professor because his class is hard is totally wrong. If he fails to teach is another matter. Please, keep our higher education standards high.
He was fired because he taught a difficult subject *and did nothing to help the students manage that.* Material needs to be presented in a fair way, and the professor needs to take agency of ensuring his students pass. If the other organic chemistry teachers aren't having the same problem, the common factor is the teacher.
I've had a similar situation, though it was in high school. Had a genius for a math teacher, but virtually *everyone* saw a reduction of 10% or more from their usual math grade when they got into his class. Some of us weren't putting in the effort, but the smartest, hardest-working kids I knew (you know, the ones who would always get mid-90s or higher) were suddenly barely scraping 80s. My math mark was about 15% lower in grade 11 than it was in 10 or 12, and that was the norm for anyone who had this teacher.
Sometimes it's okay to listen to kids when they complain things are too hard. They're deferring to adults for their education, and not all adults are good at their jobs. I'm sure you understand that.
It's the same at many private schools. Parents think that because they are paying tuition their kids should get straight A's just for showing up.
Yeah, but we have turned education into a business. Students are now "customers." In today's world, if you don't like the sweater you bought from Wal-Mart, you take return it and get your money back---no questions asked. If a restaurant is 2 minutes late seating you, you demand they comp something. The customer is king. If you get a failing grade, of course you're going to expect the same kind of "we'll make it right" attitude from the university. Education shouldn't be run like a for-profit business. Tax the rich and make education from kindergarten through college free. But also demand that, since it's free, it's going to be a real education. We can't have chemists that don't know chemistry or surgeons who don't know surgery.
Congratulations to NYU for putting money before academic excellence. Late stage capitalism is leading to the end of our education system. Can't handle organic chemistry? Choose a different major. Not everyone is supposed to be a physician or chemist.
Have had plenty of professors with all kinds of credentials and they sucked at teaching. The schools make more money and obtain grants through research than teaching. College is and always has been a business, not a service.
In my undergrad was a psych maj pre med minor. My biochem prof inflated the grade from a D to a C+. He told me "you know what you call a premed student who gets a C in Biochem?...a podiatrist or dentist. Biochem was meant to be tough bc it's an essential class as a catalyst in saving people's lives. NYU lost out...though he will get a tenured position at a real college
This is NOT elementary school, with a class failing their SATS! These are grown azzed adults. Obviously, they are incapable of taking responsibility for their own shortcomings. The Professor is not to blame for their inadequacy as students.....they are! Unnaceptable! 😕
Teaching is a gift. Just cause you have a degree doesn't mean you can teach . Some teachers should not teach.
Very true
On the contrary, a degree in a field means you know it. Some teachers should not teach, the ones that thinking teaching is a skill, and have no concept of the field they are supposed to teach.
Did anyone on this panel interview any of the 80 students who filed a complaint against the professor?
Wouldn't private schools also be vulnerable to the negative academic impact of wealthy parents?
Unreal how much this is happening. Lowering all our standards is just bringing our country to a lower place. Certain people don’t want this country to be on top.
I taught college for 28 years and witnessed a lot of change. On the positive, students have become less rascist, sexist and homophobic. They tend to be kinder to their peer group but they judge the previous harshly and often without any historical knowledge. They are more easily whipped into a group frenzy before knowing all circumstance. They are not very literate and numeracy skills are lagging. Even given what I deem to be a changing definition of literacy many of my students would claim to have not read and all profs have had the question "do I need to buy the book ..." Even if that may sometimes be a fair question I have seen the fundamental and consequential erosion of basic tenets of learning. What is most disturbing is their fundamental believe that there will always be someone else to come along to fix any of their issues ... not unlike Romans before the Fall.
The reason students ask about needing the book is because textbooks are so ridicuously expensive and some professors who say they are required for the course end up not using it.
if we had universal free universities, this would never be an issue -- parents pocketbooks would not matter
Best, most factual comment!
I acquired a degree in Electrical Engineering in 1963.
Chemistry back then was known as pre business administration as the students shifted majors due to failures.
In math, I came up with the following equation
limit as GPA --> 0 M = Business
M is for Major. I knew a great many pre business students as, being in math, I always hung out with the math/science crowd. Some of my engineering friends took Calc 1, 2 and 3, as they had to, but took 9 semesters to get through them - 3 semesters for each one.
@@bvanpelt8 All the best. 👍👍🇺🇸
Thank goodness that this has finally happened. Now they'll finally make military basic training (and special forces) easier so that everyone can get a medal.
You allow people into the college based on everything other than merit, and you didn't expect this outcome? 🙄
👍💯
Yep, exactly
@Greg Of course, why argue when you can shut people down with labels. Do you really think you are the good guys?
@Greg Maybe Sir Casm is a right winger and made silly comments on other issues, but in this point he's right. At least as I understand him. It shouldn't depend on mommy's or daddy's bank account weather someone can go to university, but only on your own performance and nothing else. If you're not good enough for university then the problem is you, not the university or the professor. In my opinion all universities and colleges should be free and tax payer funded, but only accessible for people who have a certain degree, as it is the case in large parts of europe. So you can make sure that education is not dependend on the wallet of the parents, but only on the performance of the students.
Universities are also going more to adjuncts to save on salaries, all while hiring more administrators and increasing their pay.
I suspect the professor will sue NYU, and justly so.
good question about "open door relationship with students" because indeed the only professor that I recall had an open door was my english professor. All other subject areas had "teaching assistants" to fill in students gaps. I even became one for 2 years so I see and, do recall, some of these instructional gaps.
Would you want your physician to take an easier class or work harder to learn what he will need to know as a physician? Crybaby students need a kick in the pants reality check.
This is why higher education needs to disconnected from monetary encirclment. Tuition should be free to anyone that wants it. If we make educational spending mandatory instead of discretionary parents would not have the power to threaten administrations with their wallets.
PREACH, brother!
On face value this makes sense. But look at the Greek college system. Students can take as long as they want to finish their degrees because it's free. And the great part is that people study what they're actually interested in or gifted in. The not great part is that they hang around for 20 years and never finish their degree. We don't need a society full of middle-aged college students who haven't started working. Surely management can think of some solution better than the two extremes though
PS to my earlier comment: overall, parents garner far too great an influence on schools and places of higher and further education in the US than anywhere else in the western world. Do patients try to tell physicians how to treat them, surgeons how to operate? Do passengers try telling pilots how to fly their aeroplane, or ratings' parents tell admirals how to command a strike force? Too many in the US simply think they know everything.
😳 They don't⁉️ 👀
dumbing down of america, i hope those kids dont practice med.
What percentage of his student pass Organic Chemistry? That would be something worth mentioning.
What percentage of the students were prepared to learn university level organic chemistry?
@@frankmartin8471 yes!!!!!
If it is a low percentage, then the professor is to blame.
@@thewolfdoctor761 If it was a low percentage, it's more likely, unqualified students were admitted.
Wow! No orange man bad or anti republican angle. MSNBC is losing it.
When I was in college there were several classes where almost half the class left because the professors were really not teaching anything. They told us to read from a book and then tested us. Several times the tests didn't cover anything that we read. We knew they had dropped the ball and needed to leave so we could end up learning something. I didn't regret it at all.
Professor had low levels or too high of standards and isn’t this the generation that gets a prize for just showing up. Sounds like these students are too busy socializing with each other and scapegoated the Professor.
We should not give away grades to rich people, but if most of the students were failing, he was failing to engage, teach or support the students. Makes me wonder why he left a tenured position for a adjunct position. Maybe he is so intelligent that he has a hard time teaching.
Some brilliant people are horrid teachers, and that is a large amount of kids to complain about the class. I struggled in Ochem class but studied it alone in the summer and it was understandable. If you pay this much for college, shouldn't the university be able to afford brilliant, good teachers?
Why leave a tenured position at a top Ivy league school at Princeton? On the other hand if his curriculum and exams were reviewed by other professors and they were deemed fair, he should not be fired despite student petition. He must not have graded on a curve 🤣🤣🤣
He was at NYU not Princeton.
@@yvonneplant9434 He was tenured at Princeton before he came to NYU.
All the professor has to do on day 1 is say: “Make your own flash cards every day of class. This is a really easy class if you know from the start that a LOT memorization is all that separates this class from any other, in terms of how to acquire the knowledge necessary to ace it.” Organic chem is only a “flunk-out” class if you don’t figure this out, and if the professor doesn’t bother to teach “how to learn.”
The students did not pétition to have him fired, according to what was reported in the video.
@@leifotto4277 I think you've hit on a key issue here: was he helping his students learn how to learn? That's what good teachers do, I think, based on my forty years of college teaching. But I say A key point rather than THE key point because this report doesn't give us enough factual information to understand why he was actually fired--because of incompetence in the classroom, entitled students, pressure from donors, or some other reason altogether.
They hand out high school diplomas regardless of the person actually passing the classes, so it’s not surprising people get to college and can’t deal.
My cousin would not give pass outs, they figured out by the second week it was no easy course. (English Lit)
“I’m paying good money and my beautiful Child will get an A.”
lets all hope these kinds of students one day will have their child at the mercy of a doctor who signed the petition
Organic chemistry is a make or break class. If you aren't doing well then the field is probably not for you.
Was this guy a new teacher? Could be he’s a genius but just bad at teaching. I feel like this video doesn’t give us enough details to determine who actually deserves the blame here.
I aced organic chemistry. What the heck? Difficult classes are challenging but those are often the best teachers. I see where Covid might be disruptive. This is true with education, news, any public good…..any time it becomes a commodity it is vulnerable to pressure.
It's mostly vocabulary...dah?
Not analytical or physical...