+++ To the people in the comments *still* trying to to convince me about the political significance of what is happening. I couldn't care less about what you are saying. It is impossible for you to convince me because what you are saying is not important to me. You are talking to yourself. I've already moved on from this topic, and am enjoying the hobby even as I type this. Peace. +++
to them every thing is political your hobby is political they will not stop untill every part of your life has the right politics, THEIR politics they will corrupt every thing, they took over the pride movement and feminism they destroyed star wars and countles other franchises they have wormed their way into companies and governments and they are never satisfied they will push for more and more and more untill the very ones that spoke for them and suported them are out cast for being against their politics they have weaponised hypocrisy you are a fool if you belive they will let you enjoy your hobby
I'm sorry that you perceived it this way dearest inquisitor. All I wanted to know is your perspective on the situation. Since you called me misogynistic, I want to know why given my argument of changing even more to make hobby even more inclusive just like with other IP's. Who knows, you could change my mind or not. It won't hurt anyone to step outside a bubble and experience conflict. I don't need to pretend to be Socrates to have a fluid opinion. Thank you for spending some time to read this 'short' note, Signed: Your friendly neighbourhood Warhammer enjoyer that cares about lore consistency or at least a lore friendly excuse form the company
I asked for a spotlight on Adepta Sororitas. Was blocked by Warhammer Official. Not even related to the drama. Just asked for more advertising and for that faction to be more popular.
i'm mad about this because it's the same shit as the Primaris Marines. "oh hey that established lore you care about? fuck you. we can and will change it on a whim" Like what is the point of caring about the lore if it's all going to be chucked out the window? Using an extreme example to make my point. If GW goes "oh hey the Night Lords are actually good guys and have never done anything wrong or hurt a single civilian." sure, like you say at the start that's their right as owners of the IP but are you going to pretend that makes it okay then?
@@cainbleudedemain1571 they LOOK cool, but lie this very video said, they could and should have just been an updated model look and it'd have been great. not "HEY FUCK-O'S I'M TECHPRIEST MARY SUE HERE MAKING MY FIRST APPEARENCE TO SAY I HAVE A BILLION ULTRA-MEGA-SUPER-DE-DOOPER-MARINES IN MY BASEMENT LOL"
@@TheCreepyLantern The fact that they give Cawl millenia of lead up, ties to the Primarchs and Big E, and having to deal with Mechanicus meddling, is more robust that a whole hell of a lot of other lore points. Shit, if Fabulous Bill is able to be portrayed as being able to make a Primarch clone (as oppossed to his highly flawed New Men of 2nd and 3rd ed) and Abaddon's 12 previous Black Crusades as "all part of the plan!" then having progress finally happening beyond Cenutiona, Land Raider variants, Baal Predators, and Ice Gun Space Wolf stuff (all in universe tech upgrades and out of universe retcons) pretty well supported.
I am fine with retcons if I can see the reason for why they were made. I don't like them but I can accept them. Newcron lore was so that you do something other then 'Terminators in SPAAAAACE!'. I prefer the oldcron lore but I do enjoy newcron lore especially because of the book 'The infinite and the divine'. One of the best books ever produced by Black Library. Another example of major lore changes that I dislike but I can accept is Primaris Marines. While they look cool the reality is that GW wanted a big and meaningful win for Chaos. That win was the great rift which split the galaxy in half which then unleashed chaos upon the galaxy. In response the IoM received the vaults of Primaris marines that would reinforce the Space marine forces. While heresy I can understand why this was accepted and why this change occurred. Also I have watched Leutins video on this subject and I like the points he made. He also said that saying that there has always been female Custodes when there are texts saying 'Brotherhood of Demigods' does not feel genuine. While it was not ever fully said that Custodes were always men it has always been heavily implied. Also it does say that the sons were offered during the earlier Custodes releases. At the end of the day my question is this: How does this retcon help the lore of 40k in general? In my own personal opinion it doesn't. As such I am against it.
God, I still hate that change, it's like Phil Kelly didn't understand/ research where the idea of Black Pyramids and the idea of the inverse universe to the warp came from... Oh, and if anyone ever tells you both Tyranids and Necrons were the same pre-retcon, they're arguing in bad faith and literally know nothing of the fluff.
A simpler and less retcon focus canonization of female Custodes would have been for the Custodians changing their creation and recruitment process. Instead of recruiting from the sons of the Terran Elite, the Custodians could instead recruit terrans with exceptional genetics, as the Terran Elite are often socially corrupt.
Female custodes is not what they want, what they want is TOTAL control of Warhammer, just like they got total control of all the other franchises. Where have you been the past 10 years?, the reaper has come to Warhammer, you are just being gaslighted into thinking is about females in the game. You are the frog being boiled.
GW sucks and is trying to Disney 40k like they did SW eu. I don’t even know what audience they are trying to cater to cause this isn’t going to bring more women into 40k. Plus we already have the SOS and SoB which both have cool concepts and backstories. I honestly hope GW goes bankrupt if they keep doing dumb ass retcons like this! 😂😂
I can’t remember the book but there was a custodian guard who literally said there was no female custodians and that the sisters are silence and the custodians were a pair. They worked together to fill in each other’s missing talents or something alike
everyone loves the sisters of battle and sisters of silence, dont give me this BS about people who dont like this retcon crap with newly added female custodes from seemingly out of NO WHERE some how feel a certain way about woman. GTFO. lets make a female space marine, lets make a male sister of battle, lets give the emperor a daughter primarch ALL for modern politics. It isn't a political view if people want things to stay male or female focused, like the amazons from dc or the asari from mass effect. Changing the lore suddenly then saying it has always been the case is dumb, its about as dumb as ray kicking the crap out of kylo ren when he had training on using the force and she didn't, it would be just as stupid if a new male star wars character with no lightsaber training kicked the crap out of a female jedi with actual lightsaber training.
have you ever seen the new star wars the (last one is shit dgmw but the other ones are kinda ok) and for all of you thinking its dumb for rey to win against kylo dude got shot in the belly by chewbackas crossbow like not even 5 minutes ago most normal people wouldn't even be able to walk after that
@@taupathfinder657 bro gaslighting himself into thinking rey is not a mary sue😭😭😭 if it'll be a consolation we also hate baby anakin because he was a mary sue in PT. people hate mary sues
@@kespec im not saying she isnt a mary sue what i am saying if you would listen or better read what i write is that kylo losing that fight is plausible since that pice of cloth jedi or sith wear can hardly protect you better than the literal armour stormtroppers wear witch get flathened all around even if they are thecnikaly only getin a ko
Y’all tripping, the real Mary Sue in star wars is obviously R2D2. Every time something is going wrong he just pulls up and does his little thing with some computer and everything is solved. Then everyone is like “yeah R2 is the greatest droid ever.”
Primaris marines were an in lore excuse for the new range scale. It's the only reason why. Robot Girlyman had an in-lore explanation using Yvraine and Crawl the ad mech tentacle monster to push the indomitus crusade and new plotlines. The votann were rebranded becuase to make them more interesting than another classic AbHuman. Stormcast eternals are a new addition to the AoS setting. Now let me ask you,
"Keep being a pushover" mentality is what brought us here in the first place. The goal is always to destroy the core principles first, wait for the mass layoffs by that company, buy up more stock to own more of that company, but you do yours. Heresy won.
Standing for your principles is standing for them when nobody is watching or listening. Like I say repeatedly, people dont have to follow the lore if they dont want to, because no one is forcing them to. Instead of being like a stone pillar in a raging storm, hobbying how you want to, according to how you interpret the lore; you are instead acting like a tube balloon, thrashing around in the storm along with everything else by complaining about something you have no control over. I hope you find peace, even if that means leaving the hobby.
@@inquisitorvuln This isn't about the lore at all, that is what I am trying to explain. It is about conglomerate monoliths going around, doing aggressive hostile takeovers with the same template for every company they are invested in. It's like we're apes living in trees, seeing them being felled left and right, but someone ape is still saying "but we still have some trees left over here, why are you even complaining?" We will end up living on flat concrete and some apes say, "look, we won't have to climb now". The mass layoffs are people like you and me, this will impact overall mental health of countless people more than just "a change in lore" Its all hostile takeovers across all sectors in our life fellow ape.
That's right brother, scream into the void. Fight against the world that has gone mad, truly you and others valiant of heart will bring about an end to this benighted and seductive agenda.
On the topic of neutrality. Games Workshop said several times that this (setting? stories? intellectual property?) is a satire. And, as we know, satire can only exist as long as it relates to real-world problems. Worse yet, statements from official Games Workshop's accounts use what appears to be in-universe imperial propaganda - without marking it as such. Those statements look very differently to the outsiders like me. They do not look neutral, nor is there more than one statement to the contrary.
That is essentially incorrect. Warhammer 40k *was* a political satire in its early days. During the 1990s. That's why so much of 40k references are based on European history. But as GW got bigger, it disattached from that angle, in order to attract a bigger customer base. GW hasn't said its setting is a Satire in the last 20 years or so. But people who don't know that love to say it because it justifies them taking a more political perspective to the community and setting. As an " outsider " as you call yourself, you know very little about the hobby or the community to have an opinion that has depth. You could do research if you wanted. I'd encourage it, even. But most " outsiders" want only to participate in the conversation from outside the hobby and community. Because of this, we aren't even having the same conversation.
@@inquisitorvuln GW issued a statement calling it satire just a few years ago. Almost all Warhammer fans I met in person (about 30 people), were politically right wing, and open about it. I have done my research (including reading some official fiction, but mostly because I work with miniatures, and Warhammer inevitably creeps up), and it does not look appealing.
@@SashaS-s2z That statement on satire was made in order to define what Warhammer 40k is not and was made in response to real world hate groups wearing their symbols at events. That's why they even mentioned it in the first place, someone thought it was smart to use the settings tone as a justification for wearing the symbol. Context is important. The 30 people you talked to are not a reflection of the entire community. If everyone you talked to had the same political ideology it sounds like an echo chamber. Besides, political party has nothing to do with what the Warhammer Community is about. People attaching their political beliefs to the Warhammer setting are clearly over identifying with a fake universe.
I just wanted to escape in a horrible allegory for what could become of mankind. I don't want politics, or the change of lore I just want good story telling.
No one would have been mad if they elevated the Sisters of Silence to be on par with and serve as the other talon of the Emperor equal to the Custodes. But that's not what they did. I suspect malice due to the nature of the gaslighting .Games Workshop got their marching orders to inject more progressive policies into their work and they obeyed. There are as many, if not more, people opposessed to these politics as there are in favor of it and many more simply do not care, but they are least care about not treating the lore as disposable.
They could have introduced them via cawls shenanigans or something. Instead, they do this. It's political either way, but this is just a bastardisation of the lore.
Even if you could prove that this is the one IP out of hundreds that were converted to appease "minority" groups that wasn't changed for "political" reasons you surely must understand why people are pissed off when everything we enjoy has had this same treatment. I can't think of a single IP that hasn't morphed into something completely alien in the last decade and we are all incredibly sick of it.
Don't worry. Female Space Marines ARE coming. That is Games Workshop's goal, they are just testing the waters. If you don't think this change is political, you don't understand Games Workshop. Everyone who is commenting on this, even the ones that aren't "part of this community," are doing it from the position that they saw their own hobby decimated by the same sorts of incremental changes. The unfortunate thing that you will learn as these changes ramp up is that once 40k is ruined, you'll realize that this was where you could have stopped it but that ship has sailed. We always find out too late. Personally, I hope it does ramp up. The more people who see the creative decay the better.
1. Are GW just stirring it to get some social media eyes on their account? 2. I think GW are not covering themselves with glory after they squatted a whole load of AoS armies, binned a large amount of 40k models and are now really just insulting their own player market with this latest Custodes nonsense- they're piling up a lot of ill will amongst their customer base. 3. The Misters of Battle were the Frateris Templar and they were banned by the Decree Passive so its not totally correct to say that Preachers are the equivalent. I would love to see whole Crusader Order armies though - that would be cool beyond belief and would be awesome if they teamed up with Crusader Knight Houses who pledged themselves to the Ecclesiarchy 4. I have a pet theory that the Custodes are "Men of Gold" genetic templates that have been rehashed by the Emperor to strip them of free will and to turn them into his enslaved warriors. I would not be surprised if there is a female version of the template from the Dark Age of Technology so in my mind it may not be "impossible" to create a female Custodian Only reason is why would you? Its a waste of the resource that women represent - reproducing far more baseline humans.
1 - I think all GW needs to do for more attention is saying "And we don't want as many re-rolls now" and they'd get more attention.. This topic has a LOT of the out-of-warhammer spotlight, but inside of it.. most collectors, painters, players and such barely care. It's because of the political zeitgeist. 2 - Honestly I don't see it. GW has earned A LOT of ire, but this hasn't been it.. The AoS armies being shafted is one thing, but they're still in print and have plenty of stock, changes in the new edition have been bigger, if we look at 10th as an example.. These model lines simply can't keep growing forever, reducancies actively do make tabletop gaming worse. Sales have also been up in the last year. so I don't think players are that upset about the girls or the army changes. Price changes, tournament regulation and the whole "only we do the warhammer now, not the fans >:(" actively makes it worse though. 3 - I've got nothing to say, but sisters of battle are cool and i'd like to see more factions around the houses or serfs. 40K is already human-saturated but i like good models and want more good models. 4 - I think it's all-but-confirmed that everything Astartes and above are partially mind-controlled by either technology or some aspect of "faith" being literally a psychological effect. it's in-world propaganda that they're effectively 'blinded' by faith, but the pathological dedication leaving them unable and unwanted to swap sides (as in the Tau) kinda leaves me thinking the same. Because gaurdsmen (or just regular people) do swap sides, do branch out and do get introduced into xenos, but they're only persuaded by propaganda and living conditions. But Astartes and anything above them, sometimes literally can't make the choice. Maybe a result of Horus?
I think you can make the crusader army thing work by just doing a technicality of, its just a guard regiment thats specially devoted and no one is gonna tell them not to obey the eclisiarchy, even if technically they dont have to
Most minor of lore changes compared to introduction of Necrons, retconning Necrons, Tau, Dark Eldar/Drukhari, Mechanicus, Squats, the entire Horus Heresy novel range, etc.
They should have gone slower and/or harder with it. They could have overtime introduced some women custodes in the newer novels and/or have with the release of the new codex new models of women custodes added or atleast kits to turn custodes into women because it's kind of stupid to just add women custodes into the lore saying that they were always there while not doing anything with them in the novels and/or tabletop.
I think no matter how female custodes got introduced it was going to cause a shit storm. Whether it was new minis, a novel explaining an in depth lore reason for them existing or a simple short story like we got in the codex, people were going to be mad saying the change was out of nowhere. And I mean yeah? No shit. GW can't alter the past 30 years to retroactively add female custodes to past writing, so what they're doing is introducing it now and hopefully including it as a normalized part of the lore in future writing involving the custodes. People have a hard time accepting one off references as cannon, but you can't call it forced or bad for the setting until you see if or how they expand on it. What we've received is the first drop of what is hopefully much more lore to come, and I believe it's best to reserve judgement until we see what this looks like a year or two down the line instead of judging it entirely off of a few paragraphs in a codex.
What I was saying is that they should have hinted to it and/or had it in some novels, released the codex with the story, and added woman custodes models and/or kits to the tabletop with the release of the codex or soon after. There still would have been backlash, but probably less than what they got.
@@JakeTheBeastDelta on the flip side pushing the change on all fronts might have lead to even more backlash. Either way this stuff takes time and this casual name drop in the codex is likely the first step in this overtime process you're suggesting. We may see kits, novels and more in the future. Only time will tell
What I was saying if they have to add women custodes was in the novels over half a year to two years hinting at, referencing, and having women custodes in them, then release the codex with the short story, and release models and/or kits with the release of the codex or soon after. Another thing that would have lessened backlash would be if they don't respond to any criticism or outrage on Twitter because that only amplifies it.
Gw still done this very bad. Changing lore without any good plan and give a shock to community. Also there is no reasons for female custodes to justify there exists. Like it make sense if there was a order of female custodes for a some duty that emperor give to them like diplomacy or bodyguarding some important people. That make them unique and not a just female version of their faction . Still this is an new lore and for future hope that make them for getting and unique maybe that fixing this wild mod that is in community
@@cainbleudedemain1571 I'm not trying to insult, but stop being intellectually dishonest. The female change is a micro issue; the discourse around it is the macro issue. So no, female Custodes is not a problem at all and I fully embrace the change. I even though about kit bashing some to get ahead of the curve. What's the issue is GW's handling of it, the people who praise it to spite those wary of it, and the understanding that when changes like this happen in media today it is through initiates that often hire bigots who insulate themselves.
@@CaptainFancyCat well, let's not cry about stuff that hasn't happened yet. No primarch has has his sex changed or anything. Custodes can be female, that's it. I can understand worrying about lore, but at the moment this is one retcon among many, I didn't cry about Squats, I won't cry about Femstodes, retcons happens, retcons are a good thing to keep IPs alive, especially when they're as old as 40K. This is not worth anyone's anger, this doesn't matter. Sure, if they make Space Marines wave LGBT flags in canon be angry all you want but that, that's just not it.
Look, I don't like chucking critics - even the political ones - under the bus of misogyny, even if that's what may ultimately at play. As I see it, this event for cultural critics is contextualised in their own narratives, informed by their own ideology. I don't often see the disdain for female representation so much, else-wise both Sisters factions would be under similar scrutiny (but I likely haven't seen as much as you have). Rather, the outrage seems to be directed towards the crossing into differing gendered spaces. Even granting "Misters" of Battle are present in the SoB faction, there does appear to be a clear superiority in the "Sisters" specifically. Personally, I had the thought for a while for female Bananas, but I think that mono-gendered spaces is what gave the human factions so much flavour, that really sets them as the primitive backdrop to the other more progressive factions. I think this function of the humans, in the context of the rest of the setting is what you trade for the representation. That's why you hear critics argue the absurdity in trying to see oneself in 40k. I can't really agree with minimising representation, though I do agree with the "blandening" effect it has. I think the setting having rich and human characters you can see yourself in helps it rather than hinders it - I play my faction for this precise reason. If it were me writing the femme-banana, I would stipulate that whatever we do, we need the "female" bit of her character to actually be material in some way to the choices she makes, and to the way she's perceived, in both good and bad ways. If we're adding women in, we need the fact that she's a woman to be interesting and compelling, to sell the idea to audiences. This way, we counteract some of that blandening by exploring that unique intersection between Custodes and woman, that adds some extra interest in opposition to the dilution of the collective. I don't believe they did that in her story, to my recollection.
This is not meant to be antognisitic so please don't take it that way. Why do you require that a woman Custodes added to the lore to have extra targets for "interesting and compelling" but don't demand the same of men Custodes? What, EXACTLY, makes a woman custodes bland by definition that is somehow magically not the case if the custodes is a man? I find these kinds of arguments to be dogwhistles for the same kind of hate that others vocalize directly. Why must there be a higher standard for the existence of a woman Custodes over a man Custodes?
@@nurglerider781 You're misunderstanding my point: it isn't the isolated character that becomes more bland, but the whole faction. It's one less way this faction is different from the universe it inhabits. What I'm proposing has two considerations: an artistic one, and a practical one. The artistic one is decidedly non-misogynistic -- the idea here, is that by distinguishing the female character materially in the writing, you _imply_ that difference of the men. We get it for free. The practical one may be a bit more misogynistic, if you read into it, but this standard will apply cross-genders, ceteris paribus on the context -- that because we've decreased the difference the faction has to the setting, we can at least trade this for some extra interest in that specific individual character. Yes, that means she has to be more special than other Custodes, in the sense that she'll be a better character than most of them, but this way we can create something neat with the sacrifice we make to the narrative. Plus, being a better character seems like a feminist W to me anyway. Look, really what I'm in essence saying is that I'd prioritise writing these women as particularly good characters in their own right, and to actually write them like women, who have their own particular set of experiences in contrast to the men, so that way it actually seems to matter that it's a woman, and not just another banana with grafted boobs. I hope that clarifies things. I promise you I'm sincere here, and not dog-whistling.
@@nurglerider781 Simple. If for 10 editions something was one way and out of a sudden, without any good explanation other than "current year politics" it is different, most people regardless of their view on women or whatever will not like that change. Such sudden changes require some sort of lore explanation as in why havent we seen ANY female Custodes in like 100+ books? Because logically that either means they are very rare, or more likely GW tries to score some political points and havent really thought of a way to address it. The latter isnt very satisfying to fans of a consistent universe. If women were an issue, people would dislike female Guardsmen, they dont. They would dislike the Sisters of Silence, they dont. They would dislike ANY female representation throughout the factions, but they dont. Female Stormcast Eternals were also no issue because the lore allowed for it. You are making the same mistake as the Star Wars crowd that tries to label the same fanbase as anti-women because they dislike Rey, that loves Ahsoka Tanno, Mara Jade, Leia Organa etc. Your mind has been poisoned to see dog whistles at any corner. Like if you want female custodes, write them into the story as is. As in explain why now there are female custodes as opposed to the last 10k years where there weren't any. Dont be lazy and just retcon them always being there.
@@CrestOfArtoriasI'd like to address the "always there" criticism a bit here because this is far from the first time GW has done "always there" or "been around for a while" style retcons. From the necron and tau lore changes, the votan rework, the rogal Dorn tanks or even space Marines being all male if we want to go waaaay back. There's a massive amount of modern lore built in this type of retconning that we take for granted now because it's had time to sit and more writing done to reinforce it. What we have us merely the first instance of lore of female custodes, a few paragraphs to judge it off of. GW can't alter the flow of time to rewrite everything they've written in the past so all they can do is continue to write female custodes going forward. And no matter what started that the lore change whether it be a new mini, long winded novel or a short story like we got it was inevitable that it'd get push back, hell there's still people that year for the days of chaos androids and biker squats. But like most fans of the franchise the majority of the hobby will acclimate to femstodes existing as more is written about them, and like all lore the more that gets written the more it's reinforced in cannon. If we're going to judge femstodes as a retcon I believe we should wait and see what the writers do with them now that the bandaid is ripped off. Writers like ADB have been itching to write about femstodes for years by their own admission so IMO the best thing we can do right now is see what talented people can do with that change before calling it a bad change. If ADB drops a new custodes book in a couple years and it's shit then the initial reaction is proven, but if it's a great novel then the value of the change can be proven.
It does matter to hobbyists that POLITICS has once again stuck it's unwanted SNOUT in entertainment! All these DEI companies do is that 'WOKEITIS' that doesn't take others opinions into account! I don't believe for one minute that GW were going to FEM-OUT space marines. I will be blunt, it is WE customers that make GW profitable, so GW better lock down. GO WOKE, YOU WILL GO BROKE!
I just ignore /make my own story ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ its a shitty implementation of GW If anything this got me to actually post them doodles with my SoB and SoS dont matter how bad the scribbles
Mostly agree on what you said. All GW had to do is realised a book detailing the creation to female custodes before the codex release. Also, theses old 'fans' of the hobby I'm seeing are weirdly not showing their collection when asked. It's starting to piss me off, cause I know they are using this as a way to get more subscribers. Give it about week or two, it will die down.
The reality is that none of us ever had any control over any of the franchises we enjoy it’s all owned by the ip owners and in addition to this nobody can control the community around the things we like Yeah “gatekeep” all you want by banning dudes from your discord server or whatever they will just find other people who like the thing and just hang out with them Can’t stop change Dudes should just chill the fuck out you never had any power over Warhammer or any franchise really so it’s not your fault
They shouldn’t have retconned it. They should’ve just made it so custodes started recruiting females because reasons. Honestly I don’t really care that much about banana bois. They don’t do anything anyway.
okay some good points but into the later part of your video you said what is irking me and many many others. "the changes others franchises have had" this is exactly why most of us are pissed off, it not a lore reason for fucks sake it could of been handled way better a more epic story and even the most heavy of lore nerds would have had to go "okay i don't like it but the story and reason is fuckin neat" but this? this is bullshit. its coming from a place of "there is no war in ba sing say " and real world politics. I want games like this Battletech and more to free a place where everyone can just escape. everyone can go and turn their brain off for a while and enjoy the hobby. and yet the real backlash started over those hobby tourists who now scream "HAHA! See, we are taking your hobby for ourselfs! Don't like it make your own" those people who I now loath becuase of attitude. SO much like Horus if i cannot save the hobby then i will see it burn to the ground.
I took the tweet more as an in universe statement than a mass jedi mind trick tbh. I dont know, I just dont get this whole thing. Whats so weird about the Emperor having some female bodyguards? They all effectively have superpowers anyway. It feels like bigger changes than that happen pretty often too??
Brother, great video. Informative and insightful. This is a conversation, and you did a great job of dissecting the elements people are arguing over. Hate begets more hate. The space magic explanation makes much more sense the way you compared it to Custodes. I would have preferred they were straight up and just said, "hey this is the direction we're going in", rather than the way they posted on twitter. In the end, its a tabletop game, and the goal is to have fun and enjoy the world we're sharing. I feel the same way, as you, I don't have the energy to argue and fight over something in a hobby that I partake in for fun. I can understand some of the cognitive dissonance because of what happened with Star Wars. Lets just hope they don't make fundamental differences to beloved 40k characters the way Disney did Luke dirty. Like make Leeman Russ come back a vegan pacifist that wears sandals and listens to Radiohead. lol.
It seems the SE are pre-existing warriors born with new bodies. There is no reason to choose a woman as a starting place for a Custode. Our species has evolved to make men more built for war, and women more built for home.
Because you aren't worth responding to, honestly. Why would I entertain any debate with someone who calls me a coward while not knowing me, over my opinion on this situation. You can stop asking for a response, this is it if anything. Your negativity is boring, Brooding Edgelord. I don't have anything else to say to you. I've already moved on from the topic. Get help.
@@inquisitorvuln I'm sorry that you perceived it this way dearest inquisitor. All I wanted to know is your perspective on the situation. Since you called me misogynistic, I want to know why given my argument of changing even more to make hobby even more inclusive just like with other IP's. Who knows, you could change my mind or not. It won't hurt anyone to step outside a bubble and experience conflict. I don't need to pretend to be Socrates to have a fluid opinion. Thank you for spending some time to read this 'short' note, Signed: Your friendly neighbourhood Warhammer enjoyer that cares about lore consistency or at least a lore friendly excuse form the company.
Everything this dude says on this topic is entirely disingenuous. People aren't upset that GW is retconning the lore, they're upset they blatantly lied about it and are gaslighting fans.
well, they wanna go mainstream... so of course they have to bend over backwards. everybody is hyping the whole henry cavil situation, i think he just put in the first nail in the coffin that's called public popularity. they want to cater to a broughter audience when they weren't even able to supply there niche in the first place.... it's a shit show and i'm greatful for a booming and thriving 3D printermarket and the fact that i have enough space at home for a full on warhammer board and enough friends to come visit.
I didn't read that comment as GW lying or gaslighting, I thought it was GW doing a retcon. They've done this for so many factions really well, including the Squats, Tau, Necrons, Drukhari and Custodes originally too. IMO I wish they had done the same thing with Primaris, instead of "moving the story forward." But I'm firmly in the 40K is a setting where hobbyists make their own narratives camp, as opposed to it being a narrative in itself.
This just goes back to the gender politics of females in the military, more specifically infantry. First there was big criticism about women serving in non-infantry. As U.S marine who deployed to warzones with female marines, I will say female marines are to this day the toughest and most disciplined women i have ever met. Could they keep up with the highest physical demands on average, uh no. But they filled average support roles just well. But this is the big take away, now females are allowed in infantry. But do many females join infantry? No. Same way as females joining roughnecking, firefighting, construction, plumbing, landscaping, etc. The door is wide open yet females arent too keen on joining. And the ones who do join dont last long even if the system drops the bar for them and baby them. In the Warhammer universe, to enter the astartes the vast majority of evaluated candidates fail. Thats men who were handpicked by astartes themselves, fail. Now imagine the number of women. The women who even get selected would be the type of females who's body composition somehow surpasses the average mans. So we're talking about females who could basically pass for dudes. In the fitness world, women have to literally modify their bodies to surpass the physical output of the average male just to compete. Otherwise they would be borderline impossible to be any tougher, faster or stronger than the average man. And fantasy writers want to convince the public, females can somehow do just as well in physical evaluation as man can on average. Its move of desperation like Wizards of the Coasts. Its not political, its corporate. Game Workshop has been having meetings and they have projected the company direction. Bottomline is, inviting more females to play and safeguarding the company for discrimination liabilities is too lucrative to pass. Yes, like corporations pushing to recruit more females to reinforced their manpower by making females their poster models, Games Workshop desperately wants to grow their consumer base and will no longer settle for their stagnant male majority. Which means even bigger changes are coming. Adding female astartes isnt even half of it.
that's not a very good take. since you use "realism" as the basis of your argument, hear me out: space marines are not infantry, they are the most ELITE units, representing a drop in the vast ocean of the imperium's armies. some chapters literally have aspirants kill each other in battle royales. custodes trials are even harder than the astartes'. seal trials look like tea parties compared to ti. I mean not even all of the peak males can't survive the trials, and you are telling me a woman could? women are everywhere in the setting but the astartes and its adjacents, why can't men have their power fantasies?
I mean it definitely could have been done better but 40k has had regular retcons since the 80s man. First edition is almost unrecognizable. From the lore and characters to the vibe/feels of setting there had been constant change and evolution in the 40k setting.
I am glad you took time to sit with your emotions, gather your thoughts, and provide a voice of reason amongst this madness. I couldn't agree more on every single point. Outrage sells, and sadly the mindless masses will always buy it.
GW retconned Necrons into not cool. They retconned the Tau warp drive into useless and people trip over this custodes thing ... The necron and tau stuff is far worse.
In the dimly lit hallway of the cobra-class destroyer. Calladayce Taurovalia Kesh , the custodian, moved with purpose. Her mop, worn and frayed, was more than a cleaning tool-it was her partner in an unspoken dance. The floor, marred by countless footsteps and blood, awaited its nightly transformation. But tonight, Kesh had other plans. She wasn’t merely here to sweep away dust and grime; She was here to bear witness to a future where GW digs their own grave!
+++ To the people in the comments *still* trying to to convince me about the political significance of what is happening. I couldn't care less about what you are saying. It is impossible for you to convince me because what you are saying is not important to me. You are talking to yourself. I've already moved on from this topic, and am enjoying the hobby even as I type this.
Peace. +++
to them every thing is political your hobby is political they will not stop untill every part of your life has the right politics, THEIR politics they will corrupt every thing, they took over the pride movement and feminism they destroyed star wars and countles other franchises they have wormed their way into companies and governments and they are never satisfied they will push for more and more and more untill the very ones that spoke for them and suported them are out cast for being against their politics they have weaponised hypocrisy you are a fool if you belive they will let you enjoy your hobby
I respect that. Take Soma for you being able to paint figurines until your personal end and don't think further.
You do you.
I'm sorry that you perceived it this way dearest inquisitor.
All I wanted to know is your perspective on the situation. Since you called me misogynistic, I want to know why given my argument of changing even more to make hobby even more inclusive just like with other IP's.
Who knows, you could change my mind or not. It won't hurt anyone to step outside a bubble and experience conflict. I don't need to pretend to be Socrates to have a fluid opinion.
Thank you for spending some time to read this 'short' note,
Signed: Your friendly neighbourhood Warhammer enjoyer that cares about lore consistency or at least a lore friendly excuse form the company
I asked for a spotlight on Adepta Sororitas. Was blocked by Warhammer Official.
Not even related to the drama. Just asked for more advertising and for that faction to be more popular.
They are only hurting themselves cause no one will buy any of the female custodies or eventually the female space marines 😂😂
i'm mad about this because it's the same shit as the Primaris Marines. "oh hey that established lore you care about? fuck you. we can and will change it on a whim"
Like what is the point of caring about the lore if it's all going to be chucked out the window? Using an extreme example to make my point. If GW goes "oh hey the Night Lords are actually good guys and have never done anything wrong or hurt a single civilian." sure, like you say at the start that's their right as owners of the IP but are you going to pretend that makes it okay then?
Primaris Marines look cool and they are cool, fight me.
@@cainbleudedemain1571 they LOOK cool, but lie this very video said, they could and should have just been an updated model look and it'd have been great.
not "HEY FUCK-O'S I'M TECHPRIEST MARY SUE HERE MAKING MY FIRST APPEARENCE TO SAY I HAVE A BILLION ULTRA-MEGA-SUPER-DE-DOOPER-MARINES IN MY BASEMENT LOL"
@@TheCreepyLantern
The fact that they give Cawl millenia of lead up, ties to the Primarchs and Big E, and having to deal with Mechanicus meddling, is more robust that a whole hell of a lot of other lore points.
Shit, if Fabulous Bill is able to be portrayed as being able to make a Primarch clone (as oppossed to his highly flawed New Men of 2nd and 3rd ed) and Abaddon's 12 previous Black Crusades as "all part of the plan!" then having progress finally happening beyond Cenutiona, Land Raider variants, Baal Predators, and Ice Gun Space Wolf stuff (all in universe tech upgrades and out of universe retcons) pretty well supported.
I mean it definitely could have been done better but 40k has had regular retcons since the 80s man
@@justcallmejeff4310 that's the problem masquerading as a solution my friend
I am fine with retcons if I can see the reason for why they were made. I don't like them but I can accept them. Newcron lore was so that you do something other then 'Terminators in SPAAAAACE!'. I prefer the oldcron lore but I do enjoy newcron lore especially because of the book 'The infinite and the divine'. One of the best books ever produced by Black Library.
Another example of major lore changes that I dislike but I can accept is Primaris Marines. While they look cool the reality is that GW wanted a big and meaningful win for Chaos. That win was the great rift which split the galaxy in half which then unleashed chaos upon the galaxy. In response the IoM received the vaults of Primaris marines that would reinforce the Space marine forces. While heresy I can understand why this was accepted and why this change occurred.
Also I have watched Leutins video on this subject and I like the points he made. He also said that saying that there has always been female Custodes when there are texts saying 'Brotherhood of Demigods' does not feel genuine. While it was not ever fully said that Custodes were always men it has always been heavily implied. Also it does say that the sons were offered during the earlier Custodes releases.
At the end of the day my question is this: How does this retcon help the lore of 40k in general?
In my own personal opinion it doesn't. As such I am against it.
This wokeness is like a plague bearer in a Hive City if you do not get rid of it quickly it will spread and eventually destroy the City
God, I still hate that change, it's like Phil Kelly didn't understand/ research where the idea of Black Pyramids and the idea of the inverse universe to the warp came from...
Oh, and if anyone ever tells you both Tyranids and Necrons were the same pre-retcon, they're arguing in bad faith and literally know nothing of the fluff.
A simpler and less retcon focus canonization of female Custodes would have been for the Custodians changing their creation and recruitment process. Instead of recruiting from the sons of the Terran Elite, the Custodians could instead recruit terrans with exceptional genetics, as the Terran Elite are often socially corrupt.
Female custodes is not what they want, what they want is TOTAL control of Warhammer, just like they got total control of all the other franchises. Where have you been the past 10 years?, the reaper has come to Warhammer, you are just being gaslighted into thinking is about females in the game.
You are the frog being boiled.
Thats how it IS done. They havent changed their creation process at all.
Im mad because it means well probably see a female custodes mini before we get a new SoS mini and thats a crime.
This wokeness is like a plague bearer in a Hive City if you do not get rid of it quickly it will spread and eventually destroy the City
SoS is dead. Why have them if female custodes exist?
I just cut off on the lore at a certain point.
Before or after The Infinite and the Divine?
GW sucks and is trying to Disney 40k like they did SW eu. I don’t even know what audience they are trying to cater to cause this isn’t going to bring more women into 40k. Plus we already have the SOS and SoB which both have cool concepts and backstories. I honestly hope GW goes bankrupt if they keep doing dumb ass retcons like this! 😂😂
I can’t remember the book but there was a custodian guard who literally said there was no female custodians and that the sisters are silence and the custodians were a pair. They worked together to fill in each other’s missing talents or something alike
This wokeness is like a plague bearer in a Hive City if you do not get rid of it quickly it will spread and eventually destroy the City
everyone loves the sisters of battle and sisters of silence, dont give me this BS about people who dont like this retcon crap with newly added female custodes from seemingly out of NO WHERE some how feel a certain way about woman. GTFO. lets make a female space marine, lets make a male sister of battle, lets give the emperor a daughter primarch ALL for modern politics. It isn't a political view if people want things to stay male or female focused, like the amazons from dc or the asari from mass effect. Changing the lore suddenly then saying it has always been the case is dumb, its about as dumb as ray kicking the crap out of kylo ren when he had training on using the force and she didn't, it would be just as stupid if a new male star wars character with no lightsaber training kicked the crap out of a female jedi with actual lightsaber training.
lmao the ridiculous attempt to hide the ulterior motive is laughable at best. MEGA Corps are farming those ideologues 😂😂😂
have you ever seen the new star wars the (last one is shit dgmw but the other ones are kinda ok)
and for all of you thinking its dumb for rey to win against kylo dude got shot in the belly by chewbackas crossbow like not even 5 minutes ago most normal people wouldn't even be able to walk after that
@@taupathfinder657
bro gaslighting himself into thinking rey is not a mary sue😭😭😭
if it'll be a consolation
we also hate baby anakin because he was a mary sue in PT.
people hate mary sues
@@kespec im not saying she isnt a mary sue what i am saying if you would listen or better read what i write is that kylo losing that fight is plausible since that pice of cloth jedi or sith wear can hardly protect you better than the literal armour stormtroppers wear witch get flathened all around even if they are thecnikaly only getin a ko
Y’all tripping, the real Mary Sue in star wars is obviously R2D2. Every time something is going wrong he just pulls up and does his little thing with some computer and everything is solved. Then everyone is like “yeah R2 is the greatest droid ever.”
Primaris marines were an in lore excuse for the new range scale. It's the only reason why. Robot Girlyman had an in-lore explanation using Yvraine and Crawl the ad mech tentacle monster to push the indomitus crusade and new plotlines. The votann were rebranded becuase to make them more interesting than another classic AbHuman. Stormcast eternals are a new addition to the AoS setting.
Now let me ask you,
"Keep being a pushover" mentality is what brought us here in the first place. The goal is always to destroy the core principles first, wait for the mass layoffs by that company, buy up more stock to own more of that company, but you do yours. Heresy won.
Standing for your principles is standing for them when nobody is watching or listening. Like I say repeatedly, people dont have to follow the lore if they dont want to, because no one is forcing them to. Instead of being like a stone pillar in a raging storm, hobbying how you want to, according to how you interpret the lore; you are instead acting like a tube balloon, thrashing around in the storm along with everything else by complaining about something you have no control over. I hope you find peace, even if that means leaving the hobby.
@@inquisitorvuln This isn't about the lore at all, that is what I am trying to explain.
It is about conglomerate monoliths going around, doing aggressive hostile takeovers with the same template for every company they are invested in.
It's like we're apes living in trees, seeing them being felled left and right, but someone ape is still saying "but we still have some trees left over here, why are you even complaining?"
We will end up living on flat concrete and some apes say, "look, we won't have to climb now".
The mass layoffs are people like you and me, this will impact overall mental health of countless people more than just "a change in lore"
Its all hostile takeovers across all sectors in our life fellow ape.
This wokeness is like a plague bearer in a Hive City if you do not get rid of it quickly it will spread and eventually destroy the City
It's not about hating women, It's about leftest trying change the hobby to something it is not, we got to gatekeep better
That's right brother, scream into the void. Fight against the world that has gone mad, truly you and others valiant of heart will bring about an end to this benighted and seductive agenda.
@@atlanteansummer941*hushed tones*
That’s just a clever ploy to keep them busy, right?
On the topic of neutrality.
Games Workshop said several times that this (setting? stories? intellectual property?) is a satire. And, as we know, satire can only exist as long as it relates to real-world problems.
Worse yet, statements from official Games Workshop's accounts use what appears to be in-universe imperial propaganda - without marking it as such.
Those statements look very differently to the outsiders like me. They do not look neutral, nor is there more than one statement to the contrary.
That is essentially incorrect. Warhammer 40k *was* a political satire in its early days. During the 1990s. That's why so much of 40k references are based on European history. But as GW got bigger, it disattached from that angle, in order to attract a bigger customer base. GW hasn't said its setting is a Satire in the last 20 years or so. But people who don't know that love to say it because it justifies them taking a more political perspective to the community and setting.
As an " outsider " as you call yourself, you know very little about the hobby or the community to have an opinion that has depth. You could do research if you wanted. I'd encourage it, even. But most " outsiders" want only to participate in the conversation from outside the hobby and community. Because of this, we aren't even having the same conversation.
@@inquisitorvuln GW issued a statement calling it satire just a few years ago.
Almost all Warhammer fans I met in person (about 30 people), were politically right wing, and open about it.
I have done my research (including reading some official fiction, but mostly because I work with miniatures, and Warhammer inevitably creeps up), and it does not look appealing.
@@SashaS-s2z That statement on satire was made in order to define what Warhammer 40k is not and was made in response to real world hate groups wearing their symbols at events. That's why they even mentioned it in the first place, someone thought it was smart to use the settings tone as a justification for wearing the symbol. Context is important. The 30 people you talked to are not a reflection of the entire community. If everyone you talked to had the same political ideology it sounds like an echo chamber. Besides, political party has nothing to do with what the Warhammer Community is about. People attaching their political beliefs to the Warhammer setting are clearly over identifying with a fake universe.
I just wanted to escape in a horrible allegory for what could become of mankind. I don't want politics, or the change of lore I just want good story telling.
No one would have been mad if they elevated the Sisters of Silence to be on par with and serve as the other talon of the Emperor equal to the Custodes. But that's not what they did. I suspect malice due to the nature of the gaslighting .Games Workshop got their marching orders to inject more progressive policies into their work and they obeyed. There are as many, if not more, people opposessed to these politics as there are in favor of it and many more simply do not care, but they are least care about not treating the lore as disposable.
I mean this in the most respectful way possible but your pfp reminds me of Dr. Yakub
Male blanks are shipped to the asassinorium usually.
They could have introduced them via cawls shenanigans or something. Instead, they do this.
It's political either way, but this is just a bastardisation of the lore.
Even if you could prove that this is the one IP out of hundreds that were converted to appease "minority" groups that wasn't changed for "political" reasons you surely must understand why people are pissed off when everything we enjoy has had this same treatment. I can't think of a single IP that hasn't morphed into something completely alien in the last decade and we are all incredibly sick of it.
Don't worry. Female Space Marines ARE coming. That is Games Workshop's goal, they are just testing the waters. If you don't think this change is political, you don't understand Games Workshop.
Everyone who is commenting on this, even the ones that aren't "part of this community," are doing it from the position that they saw their own hobby decimated by the same sorts of incremental changes. The unfortunate thing that you will learn as these changes ramp up is that once 40k is ruined, you'll realize that this was where you could have stopped it but that ship has sailed. We always find out too late.
Personally, I hope it does ramp up. The more people who see the creative decay the better.
Do you do any of your own writing IRL? If so, I'd be interersted in your thoughts on canon.
1. Are GW just stirring it to get some social media eyes on their account?
2. I think GW are not covering themselves with glory after they squatted a whole load of AoS armies, binned a large amount of 40k models and are now really just insulting their own player market with this latest Custodes nonsense- they're piling up a lot of ill will amongst their customer base.
3. The Misters of Battle were the Frateris Templar and they were banned by the Decree Passive so its not totally correct to say that Preachers are the equivalent. I would love to see whole Crusader Order armies though - that would be cool beyond belief and would be awesome if they teamed up with Crusader Knight Houses who pledged themselves to the Ecclesiarchy
4. I have a pet theory that the Custodes are "Men of Gold" genetic templates that have been rehashed by the Emperor to strip them of free will and to turn them into his enslaved warriors. I would not be surprised if there is a female version of the template from the Dark Age of Technology so in my mind it may not be "impossible" to create a female Custodian Only reason is why would you? Its a waste of the resource that women represent - reproducing far more baseline humans.
1 - I think all GW needs to do for more attention is saying "And we don't want as many re-rolls now" and they'd get more attention.. This topic has a LOT of the out-of-warhammer spotlight, but inside of it.. most collectors, painters, players and such barely care. It's because of the political zeitgeist.
2 - Honestly I don't see it. GW has earned A LOT of ire, but this hasn't been it.. The AoS armies being shafted is one thing, but they're still in print and have plenty of stock, changes in the new edition have been bigger, if we look at 10th as an example.. These model lines simply can't keep growing forever, reducancies actively do make tabletop gaming worse. Sales have also been up in the last year. so I don't think players are that upset about the girls or the army changes. Price changes, tournament regulation and the whole "only we do the warhammer now, not the fans >:(" actively makes it worse though.
3 - I've got nothing to say, but sisters of battle are cool and i'd like to see more factions around the houses or serfs. 40K is already human-saturated but i like good models and want more good models.
4 - I think it's all-but-confirmed that everything Astartes and above are partially mind-controlled by either technology or some aspect of "faith" being literally a psychological effect. it's in-world propaganda that they're effectively 'blinded' by faith, but the pathological dedication leaving them unable and unwanted to swap sides (as in the Tau) kinda leaves me thinking the same.
Because gaurdsmen (or just regular people) do swap sides, do branch out and do get introduced into xenos, but they're only persuaded by propaganda and living conditions. But Astartes and anything above them, sometimes literally can't make the choice. Maybe a result of Horus?
I think you can make the crusader army thing work by just doing a technicality of, its just a guard regiment thats specially devoted and no one is gonna tell them not to obey the eclisiarchy, even if technically they dont have to
It's the gaslighting when the old lore is clear.
This is what happens when you edge a franchise for too long
Most minor of lore changes compared to introduction of Necrons, retconning Necrons, Tau, Dark Eldar/Drukhari, Mechanicus, Squats, the entire Horus Heresy novel range, etc.
There are good changes… and there are bad changes. This is a bad change.
@@62syWhy though?
They should have gone slower and/or harder with it. They could have overtime introduced some women custodes in the newer novels and/or have with the release of the new codex new models of women custodes added or atleast kits to turn custodes into women because it's kind of stupid to just add women custodes into the lore saying that they were always there while not doing anything with them in the novels and/or tabletop.
I think no matter how female custodes got introduced it was going to cause a shit storm. Whether it was new minis, a novel explaining an in depth lore reason for them existing or a simple short story like we got in the codex, people were going to be mad saying the change was out of nowhere. And I mean yeah? No shit. GW can't alter the past 30 years to retroactively add female custodes to past writing, so what they're doing is introducing it now and hopefully including it as a normalized part of the lore in future writing involving the custodes. People have a hard time accepting one off references as cannon, but you can't call it forced or bad for the setting until you see if or how they expand on it. What we've received is the first drop of what is hopefully much more lore to come, and I believe it's best to reserve judgement until we see what this looks like a year or two down the line instead of judging it entirely off of a few paragraphs in a codex.
What I was saying is that they should have hinted to it and/or had it in some novels, released the codex with the story, and added woman custodes models and/or kits to the tabletop with the release of the codex or soon after. There still would have been backlash, but probably less than what they got.
@@JakeTheBeastDelta on the flip side pushing the change on all fronts might have lead to even more backlash. Either way this stuff takes time and this casual name drop in the codex is likely the first step in this overtime process you're suggesting. We may see kits, novels and more in the future. Only time will tell
What I was saying if they have to add women custodes was in the novels over half a year to two years hinting at, referencing, and having women custodes in them, then release the codex with the short story, and release models and/or kits with the release of the codex or soon after. Another thing that would have lessened backlash would be if they don't respond to any criticism or outrage on Twitter because that only amplifies it.
Just wanna let you know that I am 100 % with you.
Gw still done this very bad. Changing lore without any good plan and give a shock to community. Also there is no reasons for female custodes to justify there exists. Like it make sense if there was a order of female custodes for a some duty that emperor give to them like diplomacy or bodyguarding some important people. That make them unique and not a just female version of their faction . Still this is an new lore and for future hope that make them for getting and unique maybe that fixing this wild mod that is in community
Someone wanted to tell a story about a female Custodes, GW thought it was reason enough to change the lore, that is reason enough.
@@cainbleudedemain1571 Imagine thinking this is just about a lore change and not the beginning of political idealogues calling the shots in 40k...
@@CaptainFancyCat this is literally just a lore change though, stop making it political.
@@cainbleudedemain1571 I'm not trying to insult, but stop being intellectually dishonest. The female change is a micro issue; the discourse around it is the macro issue. So no, female Custodes is not a problem at all and I fully embrace the change. I even though about kit bashing some to get ahead of the curve. What's the issue is GW's handling of it, the people who praise it to spite those wary of it, and the understanding that when changes like this happen in media today it is through initiates that often hire bigots who insulate themselves.
@@CaptainFancyCat well, let's not cry about stuff that hasn't happened yet. No primarch has has his sex changed or anything. Custodes can be female, that's it.
I can understand worrying about lore, but at the moment this is one retcon among many, I didn't cry about Squats, I won't cry about Femstodes, retcons happens, retcons are a good thing to keep IPs alive, especially when they're as old as 40K.
This is not worth anyone's anger, this doesn't matter. Sure, if they make Space Marines wave LGBT flags in canon be angry all you want but that, that's just not it.
3d printers go brrrrrrrrrr
Blackrock and Vanguard are real.
Look, I don't like chucking critics - even the political ones - under the bus of misogyny, even if that's what may ultimately at play. As I see it, this event for cultural critics is contextualised in their own narratives, informed by their own ideology. I don't often see the disdain for female representation so much, else-wise both Sisters factions would be under similar scrutiny (but I likely haven't seen as much as you have). Rather, the outrage seems to be directed towards the crossing into differing gendered spaces. Even granting "Misters" of Battle are present in the SoB faction, there does appear to be a clear superiority in the "Sisters" specifically. Personally, I had the thought for a while for female Bananas, but I think that mono-gendered spaces is what gave the human factions so much flavour, that really sets them as the primitive backdrop to the other more progressive factions. I think this function of the humans, in the context of the rest of the setting is what you trade for the representation. That's why you hear critics argue the absurdity in trying to see oneself in 40k.
I can't really agree with minimising representation, though I do agree with the "blandening" effect it has. I think the setting having rich and human characters you can see yourself in helps it rather than hinders it - I play my faction for this precise reason.
If it were me writing the femme-banana, I would stipulate that whatever we do, we need the "female" bit of her character to actually be material in some way to the choices she makes, and to the way she's perceived, in both good and bad ways. If we're adding women in, we need the fact that she's a woman to be interesting and compelling, to sell the idea to audiences. This way, we counteract some of that blandening by exploring that unique intersection between Custodes and woman, that adds some extra interest in opposition to the dilution of the collective. I don't believe they did that in her story, to my recollection.
This is not meant to be antognisitic so please don't take it that way. Why do you require that a woman Custodes added to the lore to have extra targets for "interesting and compelling" but don't demand the same of men Custodes? What, EXACTLY, makes a woman custodes bland by definition that is somehow magically not the case if the custodes is a man?
I find these kinds of arguments to be dogwhistles for the same kind of hate that others vocalize directly. Why must there be a higher standard for the existence of a woman Custodes over a man Custodes?
@@nurglerider781 You're misunderstanding my point: it isn't the isolated character that becomes more bland, but the whole faction. It's one less way this faction is different from the universe it inhabits.
What I'm proposing has two considerations: an artistic one, and a practical one. The artistic one is decidedly non-misogynistic -- the idea here, is that by distinguishing the female character materially in the writing, you _imply_ that difference of the men. We get it for free. The practical one may be a bit more misogynistic, if you read into it, but this standard will apply cross-genders, ceteris paribus on the context -- that because we've decreased the difference the faction has to the setting, we can at least trade this for some extra interest in that specific individual character. Yes, that means she has to be more special than other Custodes, in the sense that she'll be a better character than most of them, but this way we can create something neat with the sacrifice we make to the narrative. Plus, being a better character seems like a feminist W to me anyway.
Look, really what I'm in essence saying is that I'd prioritise writing these women as particularly good characters in their own right, and to actually write them like women, who have their own particular set of experiences in contrast to the men, so that way it actually seems to matter that it's a woman, and not just another banana with grafted boobs.
I hope that clarifies things. I promise you I'm sincere here, and not dog-whistling.
@@Eta_Carinae__ Thanks for clarifying, I better understand what you mean and I agree with you.
@@nurglerider781 Simple. If for 10 editions something was one way and out of a sudden, without any good explanation other than "current year politics" it is different, most people regardless of their view on women or whatever will not like that change. Such sudden changes require some sort of lore explanation as in why havent we seen ANY female Custodes in like 100+ books? Because logically that either means they are very rare, or more likely GW tries to score some political points and havent really thought of a way to address it. The latter isnt very satisfying to fans of a consistent universe.
If women were an issue, people would dislike female Guardsmen, they dont. They would dislike the Sisters of Silence, they dont. They would dislike ANY female representation throughout the factions, but they dont. Female Stormcast Eternals were also no issue because the lore allowed for it. You are making the same mistake as the Star Wars crowd that tries to label the same fanbase as anti-women because they dislike Rey, that loves Ahsoka Tanno, Mara Jade, Leia Organa etc.
Your mind has been poisoned to see dog whistles at any corner.
Like if you want female custodes, write them into the story as is. As in explain why now there are female custodes as opposed to the last 10k years where there weren't any. Dont be lazy and just retcon them always being there.
@@CrestOfArtoriasI'd like to address the "always there" criticism a bit here because this is far from the first time GW has done "always there" or "been around for a while" style retcons. From the necron and tau lore changes, the votan rework, the rogal Dorn tanks or even space Marines being all male if we want to go waaaay back. There's a massive amount of modern lore built in this type of retconning that we take for granted now because it's had time to sit and more writing done to reinforce it. What we have us merely the first instance of lore of female custodes, a few paragraphs to judge it off of. GW can't alter the flow of time to rewrite everything they've written in the past so all they can do is continue to write female custodes going forward. And no matter what started that the lore change whether it be a new mini, long winded novel or a short story like we got it was inevitable that it'd get push back, hell there's still people that year for the days of chaos androids and biker squats. But like most fans of the franchise the majority of the hobby will acclimate to femstodes existing as more is written about them, and like all lore the more that gets written the more it's reinforced in cannon. If we're going to judge femstodes as a retcon I believe we should wait and see what the writers do with them now that the bandaid is ripped off. Writers like ADB have been itching to write about femstodes for years by their own admission so IMO the best thing we can do right now is see what talented people can do with that change before calling it a bad change. If ADB drops a new custodes book in a couple years and it's shit then the initial reaction is proven, but if it's a great novel then the value of the change can be proven.
It does matter to hobbyists that POLITICS has once again stuck it's unwanted SNOUT in entertainment! All these DEI companies do is that 'WOKEITIS' that doesn't take others opinions into account! I don't believe for one minute that GW were going to FEM-OUT space marines. I will be blunt, it is WE customers that make GW profitable, so GW better lock down. GO WOKE, YOU WILL GO BROKE!
GW attacking fans is a big NO! lazy reconns a big NO! lazy woke community managers a big NO!
My Iron Warriors are delighted by the news. Daemonculaba Pt. 2
😂😂😂Congratulations....I just framed your comment. Epic, I know the story.
Deamonculaba=welcome to warhammer 40k
The change was implemented pretty ham fisted. Also we had misters of battle. Its called Word Bearers.
I just ignore /make my own story ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ its a shitty implementation of GW
If anything this got me to actually post them doodles with my SoB and SoS dont matter how bad the scribbles
I have no issue with Primaris. But this? I'll watch it play out and keep playing 5th Ed.
Mostly agree on what you said. All GW had to do is realised a book detailing the creation to female custodes before the codex release. Also, theses old 'fans' of the hobby I'm seeing are weirdly not showing their collection when asked. It's starting to piss me off, cause I know they are using this as a way to get more subscribers. Give it about week or two, it will die down.
The reality is that none of us ever had any control over any of the franchises we enjoy it’s all owned by the ip owners and in addition to this nobody can control the community around the things we like
Yeah “gatekeep” all you want by banning dudes from your discord server or whatever they will just find other people who like the thing and just hang out with them
Can’t stop change
Dudes should just chill the fuck out you never had any power over Warhammer or any franchise really so it’s not your fault
They shouldn’t have retconned it. They should’ve just made it so custodes started recruiting females because reasons. Honestly I don’t really care that much about banana bois. They don’t do anything anyway.
okay some good points but into the later part of your video you said what is irking me and many many others. "the changes others franchises have had" this is exactly why most of us are pissed off, it not a lore reason for fucks sake it could of been handled way better a more epic story and even the most heavy of lore nerds would have had to go "okay i don't like it but the story and reason is fuckin neat" but this? this is bullshit. its coming from a place of "there is no war in ba sing say " and real world politics. I want games like this Battletech and more to free a place where everyone can just escape. everyone can go and turn their brain off for a while and enjoy the hobby. and yet the real backlash started over those hobby tourists who now scream "HAHA! See, we are taking your hobby for ourselfs! Don't like it make your own" those people who I now loath becuase of attitude. SO much like Horus if i cannot save the hobby then i will see it burn to the ground.
I took the tweet more as an in universe statement than a mass jedi mind trick tbh. I dont know, I just dont get this whole thing. Whats so weird about the Emperor having some female bodyguards? They all effectively have superpowers anyway. It feels like bigger changes than that happen pretty often too??
What? A take that isn't screeching "muH cUStOde>"? In this economy? Insanity.
YOOOOO THE YELLOW FLASH SUCKS IM SO GLAD YOU SLAPPED HIM IN THERE BRO JUST SEWS POLITICAL NONSENSE WHILE HIDING BEHIND A GAMER IDENTITY
Brother, great video. Informative and insightful. This is a conversation, and you did a great job of dissecting the elements people are arguing over. Hate begets more hate. The space magic explanation makes much more sense the way you compared it to Custodes. I would have preferred they were straight up and just said, "hey this is the direction we're going in", rather than the way they posted on twitter. In the end, its a tabletop game, and the goal is to have fun and enjoy the world we're sharing. I feel the same way, as you, I don't have the energy to argue and fight over something in a hobby that I partake in for fun. I can understand some of the cognitive dissonance because of what happened with Star Wars. Lets just hope they don't make fundamental differences to beloved 40k characters the way Disney did Luke dirty. Like make Leeman Russ come back a vegan pacifist that wears sandals and listens to Radiohead. lol.
Yes, it's so refreshing hearing an actual opinion that isn't a knee jerk reaction to what is at the of the day a very minor retcon.
This is the best discussion about this topic I've heard 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
It seems the SE are pre-existing warriors born with new bodies. There is no reason to choose a woman as a starting place for a Custode. Our species has evolved to make men more built for war, and women more built for home.
This is so corny 😂😂😂
I like you Inquisitor. Well said.
Still haven't answered me on the Custodies video
Because you aren't worth responding to, honestly. Why would I entertain any debate with someone who calls me a coward while not knowing me, over my opinion on this situation. You can stop asking for a response, this is it if anything. Your negativity is boring, Brooding Edgelord. I don't have anything else to say to you. I've already moved on from the topic. Get help.
@@inquisitorvuln I'm sorry that you perceived it this way dearest inquisitor.
All I wanted to know is your perspective on the situation. Since you called me misogynistic, I want to know why given my argument of changing even more to make hobby even more inclusive just like with other IP's.
Who knows, you could change my mind or not. It won't hurt anyone to step outside a bubble and experience conflict. I don't need to pretend to be Socrates to have a fluid opinion.
Thank you for spending some time to read this 'short' note,
Signed: Your friendly neighbourhood Warhammer enjoyer that cares about lore consistency or at least a lore friendly excuse form the company.
Everything this dude says on this topic is entirely disingenuous. People aren't upset that GW is retconning the lore, they're upset they blatantly lied about it and are gaslighting fans.
well, they wanna go mainstream... so of course they have to bend over backwards. everybody is hyping the whole henry cavil situation, i think he just put in the first nail in the coffin that's called public popularity. they want to cater to a broughter audience when they weren't even able to supply there niche in the first place.... it's a shit show and i'm greatful for a booming and thriving 3D printermarket and the fact that i have enough space at home for a full on warhammer board and enough friends to come visit.
Well said Inquisitor, glad i subbed.
Y,know when u just randomly stumble across a random channel that u just vibe with? Yeah,
I didn't read that comment as GW lying or gaslighting, I thought it was GW doing a retcon. They've done this for so many factions really well, including the Squats, Tau, Necrons, Drukhari and Custodes originally too.
IMO I wish they had done the same thing with Primaris, instead of "moving the story forward." But I'm firmly in the 40K is a setting where hobbyists make their own narratives camp, as opposed to it being a narrative in itself.
This just goes back to the gender politics of females in the military, more specifically infantry. First there was big criticism about women serving in non-infantry. As U.S marine who deployed to warzones with female marines, I will say female marines are to this day the toughest and most disciplined women i have ever met. Could they keep up with the highest physical demands on average, uh no. But they filled average support roles just well. But this is the big take away, now females are allowed in infantry. But do many females join infantry? No. Same way as females joining roughnecking, firefighting, construction, plumbing, landscaping, etc. The door is wide open yet females arent too keen on joining. And the ones who do join dont last long even if the system drops the bar for them and baby them.
In the Warhammer universe, to enter the astartes the vast majority of evaluated candidates fail. Thats men who were handpicked by astartes themselves, fail. Now imagine the number of women. The women who even get selected would be the type of females who's body composition somehow surpasses the average mans. So we're talking about females who could basically pass for dudes. In the fitness world, women have to literally modify their bodies to surpass the physical output of the average male just to compete. Otherwise they would be borderline impossible to be any tougher, faster or stronger than the average man.
And fantasy writers want to convince the public, females can somehow do just as well in physical evaluation as man can on average. Its move of desperation like Wizards of the Coasts. Its not political, its corporate. Game Workshop has been having meetings and they have projected the company direction. Bottomline is, inviting more females to play and safeguarding the company for discrimination liabilities is too lucrative to pass. Yes, like corporations pushing to recruit more females to reinforced their manpower by making females their poster models, Games Workshop desperately wants to grow their consumer base and will no longer settle for their stagnant male majority. Which means even bigger changes are coming. Adding female astartes isnt even half of it.
that's not a very good take. since you use "realism" as the basis of your argument, hear me out:
space marines are not infantry, they are the most ELITE units, representing a drop in the vast ocean of the imperium's armies. some chapters literally have aspirants kill each other in battle royales. custodes trials are even harder than the astartes'. seal trials look like tea parties compared to ti.
I mean not even all of the peak males can't survive the trials, and you are telling me a woman could?
women are everywhere in the setting but the astartes and its adjacents, why can't men have their power fantasies?
I mean it definitely could have been done better but 40k has had regular retcons since the 80s man. First edition is almost unrecognizable. From the lore and characters to the vibe/feels of setting there had been constant change and evolution in the 40k setting.
I am glad you took time to sit with your emotions, gather your thoughts, and provide a voice of reason amongst this madness. I couldn't agree more on every single point. Outrage sells, and sadly the mindless masses will always buy it.
GW retconned Necrons into not cool. They retconned the Tau warp drive into useless and people trip over this custodes thing ... The necron and tau stuff is far worse.
In the dimly lit hallway of the cobra-class destroyer. Calladayce Taurovalia Kesh , the custodian, moved with purpose. Her mop, worn and frayed, was more than a cleaning tool-it was her partner in an unspoken dance. The floor, marred by countless footsteps and blood, awaited its nightly transformation. But tonight, Kesh had other plans. She wasn’t merely here to sweep away dust and grime; She was here to bear witness to a future where GW digs their own grave!
Boycott