Great comparison video! I'm just seeing this all these years later. I have an old 810 with the ES1 system and whenever I used to play it out live no matter where I was, the sound guy would say how incredible my guitar sounds through the PA. I'll keep on using my old ES1 system!
I appreciate your taking the time to make the above demo. While neither pickup system (or any other pickup system for that matter) duplicates the sound of a microphone, your comparison shows that the ES2 still has a bit of the harsh, brittle sound (often referred to as, quack), typical of piezoelectric pickups and the ES1, of course, does not. While the ES2 doesn’t ,sound as harsh as an under-saddle pickup, the ES1 still sounds more natural. If I were going to order a 500 series or above Taylor I’d specify the ES1.
My 2002 414 RCE came with an ES-1 which I loved. In 2014 I had some minor work done and asked Taylor to install an ES-2 pick up, which they did. While the ES-2 has a good clear and even sound across the spectrum, I regret no longer having the increased highs and lows of the ES-1. Since then I've owned other model Taylor guitars, (all came with the ES-2 system). Not sure of the possibility or cost to switch back to the ES-1 which to my ear sounds noticeably better.
I still prefer the exactness and brightness of ES1. The ES2 sounds distant and softened or should I say dull. This you will discover when you strum while the second is when finger picking. You know, there's something about the brightness Taylor guitars have, which has become a signature and that is retained in ES1. Thanks for the review
100% agree I was astounded between the es1 and 2 I get a ton of compliments on how my 314ce sounds plugged in i am I love with it and have been the last 8 years
I liked the ES1 as it had a crisper sound. I guess for those that like it less crisp you could use the tone controls. I thought the ES2 lacked that sparkle but similarly I guess you could adjust the tone controls. Thanks for doing the comparison.
I have a 2012 914ce cindy with es 1 system and I play it through a fishman 220SA and I have to say I think it sounds beautiful unplugged or plugged but if I wasn't worried about scratching my 4500.00 guitar I'd mike it with eq flat because I still think thats the best way to get the true experiance of the craftmenship and love that was put into a upper end guitar and the true sound of the wood..
We are waiting for the es3 !! Please guys combine and blend both previous electronics in order to keep the best of these two systems... Greetings from Greece
The ES1 sounds like a processed live sound while the ES2 is more natural sounding. The ES2 is more muted in this clip but I'm sure some EQ can manage that issue.
Just bought the new v brace 414ce-r Special Edition Edge Burst from GC and It sounds Incredible to me . The preamp isnt as hot as I like but I realized the pickup adjustments and equalizer allowed me to achieve alot more gain and fine tune my sound by increasing the volume of the treble and bass eq's and lowering the E-A and B-E pickup sensors to maintain the balance of my tone while increasing gain . I think that ability is pretty awesome and wish I had that ability on other systems I have .
Wow! Reading the comments sure tells me how much we all hear differently and have different views on what a plugged in guitar sounds like. Here's my take: 1) I am going to assume that the miced sound is most likely closest to what the guitar really sounds like. You can argue positioning etc. 2) Some people say they want their amplified to be "Their guitar only louder" but really ultimately don't want "Their guitar only louder" because then they find it too boomy and less defined when those sound waves start ringing around the room they're in. 3) ES2 seems to be closer to the miced sound of the guitar. The ES1 is brighter and more defined articulate notes and is perhaps closer to what people actually are used to hearing. 4) I liked the ES2 recording much better. I feel I can take that sound and EQ it with my preamp and bring out the detail I need and take away a little of the mud. At least I am starting with an acoustic sound and not an electric sound.
The ES2 sounds just a bit closer to what the guitar really sounds when compared to the ES1 in a one-on-one situation; but I like the ES1 more. I think it cuts better through the mix than the ES2 in a band environment and the sparkle that I like is a bit lost with the ES2.
I’ve seen so many comments saying the es system is trash compared to replacements such as LR Baggs or K&K. Is there a flaw in the es system? Or is it just a matter of preference?
It's hard to say one is better over the other. To me the ES1 had more warmth in the sound, while the ES2 had more punch. I'd be curious to see how drastically you can alter the sound with the ES2's eq. Having a broad range of sounds really helps when you play in multiple settings.
Thanks for the informative video Chris. Given the limitations of RUclips and that this isn't an apples-2-apples comparison, it's difficult to evaluate what you've so beautifully presented. I liked the sound from every example. But I most liked the tonal range & complexity of the "natural" sound that came from the 416 miked out in front. It was full and had a very pleasant string presence. While both the ES -1 or ES-2 examples were very close to the natural acoustic sound, neither had much string presence at all.... And to me, string sound is an important expressive tool for those players who desire to milk whatever variety they can from the instrument. Given that, what I liked next was the fuller sound of the 416 with the ES-2; however, because the comparison is not 414 to 414, or 416 to 416, how could anyone know how much of the fuller sound is strictly due to the 416's bigger lower bout (which is specifically designed for fuller bass)? The answer is, we can't really know. The takeaway for me is that both ES systems are sweet and quite faithfull to the natural acoustic sound; but as designed they can't pick up the strings. So for any songs I'm performing where that string presence is important to me, I'd make sure that I'm situated in front of an additional external microphone (pointing at the strings).
Also I thought the ES2 sounded more compressed and cloudy than the ES1 which sounded much brighter and full here. I also dislike how Taylor's reserving the ES2 for their higher end guitars when the ES2 may not necessarily be better. It also doesn't add justice to the 300-400 series which are solid body and still sound fantastic!
Here's my view: Neither are completely true to the guitars own acoustic voice, the ES1 adds something to its voice, sometimes its a good addition sometimes a bad one. The ES2 i feel takes something away which is not good either. Neither are perfect but they are still GREAT Im after the new 810 and i will be adding a LR Baggs lyric to that baby.
No system would exactly recreate the guitar's acoustic voice, for the simple reason that they don't pick the final "product" of the voice. Only an external source (in other words, a good mic) can pick that. But since using a mic, at least in live settings, is basically useless, the trick is to have a system that can pick up the most important parts of that voice inside the guitar and, with preamp, EQ, etc., recreate that tone at least the most accurate possible.
The ES1 still sounds the best. I respect the ES1 and ES2 for its purpose of being a "live" pickup to cut though the mix but as far as solo and folk style music, you get the best natural sound from the L.R Baggs. Anthem or Lyric. Even the L.R Baggs iBeam sounds better natural to me than the ES1 but expect feedback if you do not EQ the 200-500hz out a bit.
Great video. I can't say enough good things about my Taylor 310 with a piezo pick up I put in and wired straight to an output jack. I plug that in to an outboard preamp and it sounds great. For a long time I thought there was something wrong with the ES1 system in this 814 I have been playing. I can hear now from this video that they all really do sound bad, especially up in the higher register when you dig in like Chris says. Sounds like on out of phase humbucker! I just can't believe how Taylor can make such a beautiful sounding guitar and then pack so much electronic crap in it. A 2 foot cat 5 ethernet cable?!? really? it's crazy the amount of wires and components they packed these with.
had an ES1 on a guitar that i sent for a fret rehab, the luthier (the shop owner) blamed taylor for placing the ES1 under the fretboard because he broke the ES1. i loved the sound of the ES1, i now have the taylor 322ce 12fret & happy too about the ES2. i still miss the ES1 sound of my taylor, he replaced the broken ES2 with a Fishman Sonitone but which is only Class A. not the authentic one. 😑
The ES1 would probably work better for situations where you cannot eq the guitar. It has a nice bright tone that sounds pretty good on its own. However, I much prefer the ES2. I can hear the detail of his fingers plucking the strings. With some slight eq, the ES2 could sound absolutely incredible. It retains the character and responsiveness of the Taylor guitar. Great video! This helps a lot.
Really enjoyed the comparison.To my ear, the ES1 sounded better fingerpicking. It's a closer call when strumming. As other commenters pointed out, having the opportunity to tweak the settings might alter my conclusions. Question. I bought an 814ce in mid 2013. My preamp has only one switch to turn off the body pickup(s). The Taylor videos from 2008 show the preamp with two switches. What changed?
I have a Taylor 412RE that has the ES2 and I don't mind the pickup. But its all preference to a certain point. I dont know if I would prefer the magnetic pick up on my guitar but I know I like the one I have. And seeing hearing the audio in the video I preferred how the ES2 type pickup as I heard more body and presence through that one.
I have 3 Taylors. The first one I bought had the Fishman Blender. The others use ES and ES2. The Blender is superior to both in every respect in my opinion. Both Taylor systems have a hollow honk sound that I have never figured out how to dial out without completely destroying tone. I will be selling those two guitars eventually. I'm going to begin buying guitars without electronics and start installing my own.
How do you know it's not just the sound of the older guitar you like more? The older wood acoustic is usually going to sound better. You'd really need 3 guitars of the same year and make with the only difference being the pickup systems.
I have an ES-T in my Taylor K16ce LTD koa, and it sounds great when natural, but amplified it sounds too brittle. I also have an older (much cheaper) Taylor that uses the old Fishman system, and I much prefer the sound I get when playing through an amp or PA! Tips on “taming” the ES-T much appreciated.
I have several Taylors; some with ES1, some with ES2. While I love the sound of the ES2 (very rich), I have excessive feedback problems using them live. I have several Fishman Loudbox amps which I line out into the PA, and sometimes I go direct into the PA with a TRS/XLR wire. When I use the older ES1, I feel that I have more feedback control regardless of going into the amp or direct to a PA. Mostly I play in a 5-piece Rock/Americana band which magnifies the complexity trying to get a good sound without feedback issues. In an ideal environment with optimum control, the ES2 is sweeter. Still, I prefer the ES1 as it keeps me out of trouble. Thanks Chris!
Just ordered a Spring 2014 LTD 416ce with the ES2 system. Needless to say I am really looking forward to checking it out! Seems to me that if it sounds a bit dark you could always bump up the treble a bit? Or switch to 80/20 bronze strings. I assume you had the tone controls set flat when you did the demo? Thanks - nice video!
***** Update - just had the new Taylor at its first rehearsal - running direct into a PA. The sound was nice and full, definitely not too dark. I actually turned the treble knob down to about 10 o'clock and had the bass flat, with the volume up around 2-3 o'clock. It sounded, well, like an acoustic guitar. Full and clear. Definitely made a good first impression.
Thanks for the video! I own a 2003 710ce that has an ES1 in place of the original Fisham Box. I personally think the ES1 sound better but always a bit too thin whereas the ES2 always seems to sound a bit too muddy. The mic'd Sure sounds the best. I may try an LR Baggs Anthem instead. Would love to see a comparison with that as well. Thanks again (I finished up at Texas State San Marcos, so you are in my former stomping grounds there at Alamo!).
Sound and tone is always an individual subjective judgment. That being said I really like the sound of the ES2. To my ears the low strings are clearer and the overall sound is just more 'open' which may be a function of more brightness. I actually liked the sound better than the mic. After hearing this demo my hope is that Taylor can retrofit this ES2 system into older ES1 guitars. Thanks for the comparison video.
I use the 814ce with the original ES and really appreciate the video comparison. For strumming, the ES-2 system sounds very natural and it sounds more like it is mic'd. For finger picking the original ES system seems to capture the details. IN practice I record with 2 mics and the expression system engaged and mix in the balance that I need. Now if we could only have both systems and a system to choose or balance between them! No expression system is going to sound better than a dual mic setup but in live performance and for dialing in details when recording, these systems are invaluable. Thanks again Chris. I really appreciate making this video available to world. RUclips has incredible reach. - Scotty
Interesting comparison. I agree with many here that the ES1 sounds a bit harsh and thin with a lack of base compared to the ES2. The ES2 sounds muffled to me. Maybe it is somewhat better than an under the saddle piezo but it certainly has that annoying nasal typical piezo character. Comparing the two constructions it is pretty obvious that the ES2 must save Taylor a lot of production time and cost. The ES2 just sits in three holes in the bridge, and in the end of the cable there is a 2.5 mm plug that goes into the preamp. The ES1 is much more complicated with more components to be mounted at different places into the body and under the fretboard. A problem with the ES2 is that it can fall out. Nothing holds it in place in the bridge other than the friction of the wood and the pressure from the three piezo elements. If you don't keep a 1.4 mm Allen key in your guitar case, you will have to get the guitar to a repair shop if a fall out occurs.
I'm just starting and was ready to buy a 114e. I understand that the new 114 ce is only about $150 extra and has the es-2 in this years model. Do you agree that is a good deal for bot the cut out and upgraded pick up?
I've got the 414CE and i do believe it has the ES2. I get complaints from sound that it has a weak signal. I took it to a Taylor certified shop and they compared it to Taylor's they had and said it's the same. I've considered putting in a different system but I've also done some research and, apparently, it required balanced cable. Can any one confirm?
Is it possible that this video isn't the apples-for-apples comparison it was meant to be? I'm only asking this because of something I read today in Taylor's Wood & Steel Fall 2014 (an article starting on Page 6). In that article there's no in-depth comparison between the two Taylor systems, but the writer gives his opinion that a player needs to tweak the controls to find the best tone from any system. So what I'm taking away from having read that article and then watching this video is we can't really compare the relative usefulness of the old Taylor system versus the new system by simply listening to each of them with the identical tone settings. Instead, I would think the most useful comparison would show how each system sounds after the player tweaks the nobs to his satisfaction. If by exploring the EQ settings of both systems a player finds a more satisfying tone on one of the systems, then that system is the winner! Btw: I appreciate this video very much for what it shows us ---- I just think it's worth pointing out what isn't shown in the video. Thanks for the doing this! :)
+Alamo Music - I don't dissagree "Aiamo Music (and you're right about a more accurate discription)". Also, yes indeed, surely if you have a better guitar to your liking you sould indeed be happy. All I'm saying is the I love the Taylor sound, I don't want a natrual sound or an acoustic sound, I want the Taylor sound, the one that captured my haart as a yoyoung singer & musician. I grew up listening to it, have always wanted it and finally got it several years ago. I grew up listenling to it from artist like Hall & Oats. James Taylor, etc. (James Taylor also plays Olsen guitars) All my friends wanted Taylors guitars. In my opinion, & possibly my opinion only, Thd ES2 takes away that magic & replaces it with something that many other guitars have.However, in the end I guess we all must submit "to each his of her own." what ever makes one happy is what they shold have, sail on good friend & keeop your joys close close to you, Goodbye-
I appreciate the comparison. I have a Taylor 615ce with an ES1 system. From the very first time I plugged it into the sound system at the venue I perform at, nobody was happy to hear it. For some reason with my guitar the top b and e strings were louder than the rest on an even strum. Annoying. I sent it back to Taylor to see if that could be adjusted. Nope. Got it back with same result. We tried to EQ the heck out it with minimal success. I never used it live because I was so unhappy with the sound. I then went to a DPA 4099G clip on mic that worked quite nicely to a point. It was able to reproduce the real sound of the guitar accurately. It sounded as sweet as an acoustic Taylor should sound. I LOVE THE SOUND OF TAYLOR GUITARS when they can shine acoustically. PROBLEM... with the DPA?... The stage volume had to be relatively low. I play and sing at the same time, and on the softer songs when we had to bring the mic level up on the guitar, it would pick up my voice and make it sound hallow. No feedback problems because we use in-ears. AND THEN... this last month I got an LR Baggs Anthem in the guitar. OH MY!!!! What a difference. It sounds like my guitar has a studio mic in front of it, yet we can boost up the volume of the guitar with no problem. Also, I was glad we were able to use the same battery drawer with the new system. One nice feature of the ES. I understand that if one adds in the TC Electronics BodyRez and the LR Baggs Venue DI, you'll play for hours/days/weeks/months without stopping because you'll fall so deeply in love with the sound of your guitar through the sound system. I'll find out this next week. Have fun exploring!
Thanks for the demo! I was hoping Taylor would come up with something different. I like the ES2 better as it's sounds more natural especially while finger picking. It does lack some of the sparkle of the mic'd tone and the original ES but perhaps some EQ tweaking could address that. To my ears the original ES has a nasal metallic tone which never appealed to me. I've tried to EQ it to get rid of it but was never satisfied. Just my opinion......to each his own.
Yes in this vid, i can imagine that people prefer the ES1, sounds much brighter / crisper. But the Taylor with ES2 from this vid can be tuned by turning the 3 screws / knobs, so it sounds more like the ES1. For example, the low and mid can be reduced (my ear tells me that they are too loud compared to the highest screw / knob, which represents the high tones). My 214ce sounded terrible with the factory settings, when turning and tweaking the es2 knobs, it sounds so much better!
Thanks for the demo. I'm listening with a AT-M50 headset and what I'm hearing is that neither system really captured the natural tone of the guitar. The ES1 pushed the highs, and yes, sounded like a magnetic pickup. But the ES2 didn't really sound any more '"natural" but simply lost some of the highs and sounded darker. I'm wondering how messing with the tone knobs or EQ settings on an amp might negate the differences?
My Taylor's ES1 is debatable, it does sound nice with certain things but I find on the higher frets on the higher strings it sounds quite tinny. In comparison to the old fishman pickups and the takamine guitars it has a much lower output and doesn't have such a hard sound which I do personally prefer. It's still a quality sound and sounds very nice with open chords but it depends what sound you prefer I suppose, pro's use it so!
Bought a 414 ce recently , I seem to do that often . Just before they come out with the updated . Just wanted to say thanks for the to the point video.
after listening to the whole presentation I think the es2 sounds best but I do agree with this guy below Allen. A hard comparison to make without really getting down and dirty. All good. Thanks
Looking at the tone knobs, it looks like they weren't really used at all to shape the sound of the guitar. While he is playing they are all facing the same direction. I wonder if the guitars would've sounded better if they were actually used? ES1 sounds a bit too bright, ES2 sounds a bit dull and lifeless.
Very interesting - This is the first time I've heard a like for like comparison of either the ES1 or ES2 system directly against a quality mic (which when positioned right always gives a much better, fuller, more natural tone than any pick-up system I've come across). Personally I think the ES2 gives a much more natural sounding tone than it's predecessor, compared to the mic sound. However, I also have a 410CE Ltd edition back from 2002 when they were still using the Fishman Prefix Plus set up (it also came with Hawaiian Koa back and sides which, 12 years on sounds sweeter than ever!). However, my search for a much better amplified sound eventually took me to buying a Fishman Aura acoustic imaging pedal several years ago now. With the right set of images and judicious blending of pedal and pick-up sounds I'd still say this sounds way, way better than either the ES1 or ES2 (without some additional EQ'ing to get a better tone). I've demonstrated the Fishman Aura to lots of friends (some of whom are professional musicians) and without exception they're all totally blown away by the quality of the "studio like" tone you get from this. It also deals with feedback amazingly well for loud, live performances. Hope this helps anyone searching for the holly grail of amplified acoustic sounds like I was for so many years.
I bought a 716ce online 5 or 6 years ago. I loved the guitar but hated the ES so much that I almost returned it. I even called Taylor because I thought there was something wrong with my guitar's electronics. Instead of returning it, I had my guitar tech disconnect the ES and install a Fishman Matrix Infinity. I couldn't be happier.
Es1 sounds brighter for sure out the box but Im sure with some tweaking or even an equalizer in front the Es2 does sound more natural and those higher frequencies would be heard better. That didnt give a direct answer I use an Es1 and havent played with an Es2 yet so only time will tell plus everyones ear is different.
I like the sound of both systems. The only reason I prefer the ES1 is that the fact you can use a balanced clean cable direct out of the guitar instead of going through a direct box. I would have preferred the option of using XLR connection than just a 1/4” Balanced &/or unbalanced plug. I’m one of those people that would be using a 90 degree XLR connector directly to the guitar just like the original TRS plug that came with the guitar.
Hey Chris I know this was made 4 years ago but as of now the 400 series comes with the ES2 series infact I believe that the 300 series comes with it as well just and FYI and thanks for your videos
I’m a recording engineer & I always mic an acoustic guitar in the studio using a tube elect condenser mic (Neumann) going through a hi-end tube mic-pre! (Avalon)
@@sportbigred That's probably the best way to go when you want to record the acoustic ambiance around a guitar. It sounds most natural this way. What I think is also very interesting is mixing in different sounds and exploring what that might sound like. In my opinion it can be very interesting... I might post some of my frolicking with these methods at some point.
Totally agree! The mic demo added a bit more of a distraction/confusion to the video especially when it was placed 2nd. It would have been better if the ES2 directly followed the ES1 & the mic demo placed last!
Just received a New Taylor 210E Deluxe with ES2. A gift from my Wonderful Son but yet to hear the system thur a amp. Video has me gasing for a New Amp.
The fishman loudbox series and the new Fender Acoustic pro line of amps would be great options. We stock both amps and I would love to make you a great deal on one. - Chris McKee
Man I’m debating on buying the K and K, and putting it in a Taylor 214 which does not have a pick up, the question is whether I should just hold out and wait to find a Taylor with the expression 2 system or install this pick up, I guess it’s going to run me at least 150 for installation plus if I want to buy the hundred dollar preamp. I’m not really sure I could install it myself, especially the whole drilling part, I heard you need to get a special drillbit but it would be nice to save you a few bucks
Didn't particularly like either. I would want to customize the height of the pickup on the ES2 b/c it sounded significantly lacking in terms of High-End volume, Low-End note articulation (clarity) and, that overall sparkle from across the tonal spectrum that made me fall in love with Taylor Guitars in the first place. Thanks for the video though!
Nice test, but no comparison! The ES2 system is a bit better than the old one, but sounds nothing like the mic. It is stiff and harsh in the mids, but doesn't hurt my ears as much as the ES1. I think the secret to good guitar sound is the air between the guitar and the mic. Baggs Lyric (mic) comes closer to genuine acoustic sound, but is touchy to use in front of monitors on a large stage.
Much prefer the ES1 over the 2. I’d like to buy a new Taylor as a second to my current GS8 with ES1 but prefer the old pickup, it’s obviously cleaner and brighter as you demonstrated
I had a neck reset and fret dressing from my local luthier. When I got it back and plugged it in, the balance was awful. No bass and too much treble. When I tried to adjust the saddle set screws, the little set screw in the middle came all the way out. Now I can't seem to get the little allen set screw to take hold to the threads and stay in place. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks. Good video by the way.
My 2022 Taylor 314e sounded great at the store going directly into a Fishman LoudBox. Took it to band practice and got the most shrill sound I've ever heard. We have Mackie 1402VLZ4 14-channel Mixer. Wether going straight into the mixer or using my Zoom AC-2, it just sounded awful. Any suggestions? The was set up by a Taylor tech, so let's assume we don't need to address the issue with the guitar. Any pedal or settings on the guitar or mixer that could help?
I went into a music story today thinking I would leave with a Martin equipped with the Fishman pickup. I've always one! I was replacing my previous Taylor which had the ES1 system that fail three times over the 8 years I owned it. I was determined to get the Martin. I played both the Taylor and the Martin and loved both.The crucial difference for me choosing the Taylor was when I did some shoot outs with both the guitar's plugged in. The new ES pickup sounded way better than the Martin plugged in. The GPCPA4 pickup failed to translate the glorious tones I was hearing unplugged. As a working musician, I had to go with the superior plugged in sound.
Alamo Music, thanks for the great demo. The change in direction that the ES2 system takes from the ES1 system has taken me by surprise. I hear each having its prose and it cons. Depending on your playing style or environment, I could see how a player could love or hate either of them. But I think one of the difficulties in comparing the two is that there is a big tonal shift in the two systems. the ES1 has a bit more mid and trouble energy with a bit more bite. Compared to the ES2 and it's more lade back nature and slightly souped mids, It just is not jumping out at you as much. I do hear the piezo sound in the ES2 but to a much lesser degree than in may other pickups of that type. So I think they both do there own thing but the answer to me would be to blend the two. Have both pickups with a blend nob or switch so that you could have the best of both worlds.
Unfortunately, he's playing with his bare thumb. The first ES1 Expression System sounds really bad when using a thumbpick though. It can't handle sharp attacks without generating a lot of quack. This new ES2 version sounds duller in this video for some reason, but if you play one yourself I think you'll be surprised how great it sounds.
With the ES2 there should be a second piezo pickup (like LR Baggs element) under the saddle and a blender inside the soundhole for mixing both signals. The ES2 started more than one year ago and nearly each Taylor (300 series and up) will be sold with the new ES2 but there are less reviews and comparisons to find on the web. Why ? Greatings from Germany. Klaus
I have two 914s (I bought in 2000 and 2001), and in both I had a simple FIshman Matrix II installed under the saddle with a Fishman Cleartone Saddle. No controls. Only the end pin Matrix II preamps (that does require a 9v inside the body) and the piezo. They sound better than anything I've heard. It's a shame Fishman discontinued the Matrix Series. They were the absolute best.
ES2 - HANDS DOWN! - I've got a custom 910 and never liked the live sound of the ES1, but the ES2 in your EXCELLENT DEMO has a WAY better acoustic sound.
Still playing a 300 series from early 2000's with a Fishman system and have always preferred it to any ES's I hear. Plugged into a PA it has more drive. ES's may be more "natural" but in a live situation with a band they sound thin to me. Thanks for the comparison!
Hi Chris, I always enjoy you videos. I think the ES2 is better than the ES1 when plugged in direct. However your test is too confusing. It would have been better if you didn't include a mic and just compared the two using only direct plug in. After all that's what we're talking about. Everyone knows that an external mic will give you better sound when used alone or with a pickup. I'd like to see you do a non-mic'ed comparison. That way we'd get to hear them side by side without getting confused with other things.
After watching and listening better, I have to say that I like the ES1 more than the 2. Comparing to the mic, regardless of what some may have written before, it's actually ES1 CLOSER to the mic sound, at least from this video. Of course, none of them sound like a mic (they're not mics), but the ES1 can be tweaked easier to sound close to the sound of a good mic with a good preamp, especially since the ES2 has too much mid in this video
I LOVE my ES2-equipped Taylor. Yes, it's very different from other pickups. But I think we've grown accustomed to the typical piezo-treble-y tone. I certainly was, seeing as how every other electric/acoustic I've ever owned used variations of that same under-saddle technology. At first, the tone of the ES2 threw me a bit, and I didn't like it. But a few tone tweaks had me hooked. I find it to be incredibly natural-sounding (which again was a bit foreign to my ears at first, since most under-saddle pickups sound anything but natural). The pick attack is great, and I get rather thunderous (but not muddy) bass out of the thing. Perhaps specific to me, but I do a lot of bridge-slapping to create a kick drum sound for live looping. The ES2 sounds almost like an actual kick drum when thumped, and the bass tone is incredibly deep and tight. I might find myself soon adjusting the pickup elements a bit (like, 1/8 turn at a time) just to balance the strings more to my liking, but I would never say they are "imbalanced" in any way. It's just the tone-tweaker in me.... If I have any complaints, I might want a bit more of a sweep for the tone controls; a slightly bigger curve would be nice. Perhaps a dedicated midrange knob. Maybe an onboard tuner (though we all seem to use headstock tuners anyway these days). But overall, my ES2-equipped Taylor (a 214ce Deluxe) is the best-sounding A/E guitar I've ever owned. For the tone geeks: I use a Bose L1 Model II for my live rig, with the T1 ToneMatch mixer. The preset for the the Taylor T5 is excellent for the ES2 system; it adds a slight mid-scoop, deep bass, and some shimmer to the highs. I've also got a Wampler Ego compressor, adding just a hint of compression/sustain, blended about 35-40% with the dry signal. I plan on trying to eliminate the compressor, or use it solely as a boost, but haven't messed with that setup just yet.
First, this is perfect, it is just the review I was looking for to compare the two side by side. I personally like the ES1 over the ES2, because like you said, the ES1 sounds more metallic/magnetic/bright vs. the ES2 which is a piezo, and piezo really makes guitars sound muddy. I only like piezo for lead guitar, because I like the muddy electric guitar pickup sound, if that makes sense. If Iʻm strumming, which I do a lot, a like a bright undersaddle type of sound. I love the new guitars, especially the Fall 2014 Limited Editions, they are the most beautiful guitars from Taylor in a great while. I would suggest making some of the new guitars with the ES1, because I am very interested in the new Taylors.
How does this compare with the SRT electronics system in the Yamaha AC3R? Im about to buy one or the other. Played the Taylor 214ce today and it sounded and played perfect, I almost bought it, but $1200 for the taylor when I can get the Yamaha for 800 with a 100 dollar rebate and a hardshell case. Not sure if the Taylor comes with the hardshell case? I am mostly a stummer but getting the cut a way and intend on improving my lead playing. Why not the Yamaha for 400 bucks less? I can buy more equipment with that 400 bucks. So will I be paying 400 bucks more just to say I own a Taylor or is the quality worth the extra for real? I have a Yamaha FG345 (no electronics) and get nothing but compliments from alot of very good musicians
I have an AC3R and the SRT is great, and all solid wood apart from the 214.The ES-1 sound too much magnetic pickup, the SRT is way better. The ES-2 is a big step forward from the ES-1, but SRT i just as good or better. A thing to keep in mind is that it takes some time to find the optimum settings for the SRT, it can shurely sound like shit too in my opinion. I use only the first mic mod setting and the mix knob at 100% mic. Then I cut quite alot on the mid eq. The only thing on the AC3R that I'm not happy with is the tuners. I have tried the limited edition, handbuilt AC6R and that i a stunning guitar all the way.
The ES 2 sounded more like the mic used. I have a 12 string 2016 458e with ES2. It sounds GREAT through a Loudbox Artist, but I'm trying to get it to sound good through my 1965 Princeton Reverb (real one) with some magic box in between. Any ideas? I don't want to carry 2 amps to play the Taylor and my SG. Thanks for the video comparison.
Excellent job starting at 6:44. Please, please people, start with the actual sound samples of the instrument and pickups. ES2 would work way better for the music that I do. I vastly prefer the sound of the mic. Why can't somebody make that happen in a pickup?
Hi Guys, great video, much appreciated since I don't think any store in Perth Australia has the ES2 yet. But I wonder if you's offer an opinion, 814ce 2013 or 814ce 2014, both exceptional guitars of course, but likely a big price gap, over here, so I guess I would like an opinion re. the value I (as a very average, mainly rhythm and some finger style, church on Sunday) am likely to see in the new versus the older 814 es1. I love Andy Powers views on guitars, but Bob Taylor designed my 514 more than 12 years ago and I love that interment as well.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I had a customer dealing with the same issue only he already owned an older 814ce. He purchased the new 814ce and sold his old one. I think the new one is a great improvement and worth the additional money. The older ones are great but the newer ones are better.
Nothing Taylor has compares to the LR Baggs Anthem. I have one installed on my D35 Martin, it doesn’t sound like a pickup, it sounds like the guitar. The last Taylor I had couldn’t keep intonation, I don’t know if it’s the screw on neck, but my Martin has a dove tail neck joint and never goes out of tune, let alone any intonation issues. I guess to each their own.
Well, it seems like Taylor still didn't solve the true Natural Acoustic Sound picking up problem. I've got a simple Taylor 114, no electronics and it sounds great. I'm thinking of adding a K&K Pure or LR Baggs Lyric, way better than any of these ES systems sound, plus less electronics inside.
Great video. Not a very fair comparison tho. The 14 and the 16 series have very different natural tones. The 16 has a much deeper tone to me which is why I love my 416. I would love to here the 416 in both es1 and 2 if possible.
Yes, ideally you want to use the same model... BUT! Comparing miked vs. direct on both kicks ass and leaves no questions... That´s what this comparison is all about, which imo is most important and relevant. Great job Chris!
Taylors - the higher the series number the how different or better the instrument? Your ES1 has a rounded, articulate but slightly 'boxy' feel, ES2 appears louder (because of the different balance between bass mid and treble saddles?), has open and percussive quality: however, in my view the 'best' - to me the more 'natural' acoustic guitar tone is achieved just through your microphone; if I were buying a Taylor I would not have the electrics and use the money I save on the purchase price to add to my spend on a high-quality microphone.
I like the sound produced by the Sure mic. IMHO, the ES2 sounds a bit more closer to the Sure mic than the ES1. Thanks for the comparison. My ES1 crapped out on me this past weekend and I'm getting the ES1 replaced by the ES2.
I just replaced my ES1 with an ES2 in my 914ce. Big mistake! I’m having the ES1 reinstalled. Listen to the string noice of the ES2 on the video and the metallic sound it produces.
![Why Taylor Guitars Suck!!?! [Taylor VS. Tanglewood VS. Mayson] Watch this before you buy a Taylor](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OCbGYJx1_p0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Taylor Guitars Suck!!?! [Taylor VS. Tanglewood VS. Mayson] Watch this before you buy a Taylor](/img/tr.png)
Great comparison video! I'm just seeing this all these years later. I have an old 810 with the ES1 system and whenever I used to play it out live no matter where I was, the sound guy would say how incredible my guitar sounds through the PA. I'll keep on using my old ES1 system!
I appreciate your taking the time to make the above demo. While neither pickup system (or any other pickup system for that matter) duplicates the sound of a microphone, your comparison shows that the ES2 still has a bit of the harsh, brittle sound (often referred to as, quack), typical of piezoelectric pickups and the ES1, of course, does not. While the ES2 doesn’t ,sound as harsh as an under-saddle pickup, the ES1 still sounds more natural.
If I were going to order a 500 series or above Taylor I’d specify the ES1.
My 2002 414 RCE came with an ES-1 which I loved.
In 2014 I had some minor work done and asked Taylor to install an ES-2 pick up, which they did.
While the ES-2 has a good clear and even sound across the spectrum, I regret no longer having the increased highs and lows of the ES-1.
Since then I've owned other model Taylor guitars, (all came with the ES-2 system).
Not sure of the possibility or cost to switch back to the ES-1 which to my ear sounds noticeably better.
I still prefer the exactness and brightness of ES1. The ES2 sounds distant and softened or should I say dull. This you will discover when you strum while the second is when finger picking.
You know, there's something about the brightness Taylor guitars have, which has become a signature and that is retained in ES1.
Thanks for the review
To my ear the ES1 sounds better. Yes, it has some of the metallic thing going on, but the ES2 sounds much more compressed. i.e. has far less "air".
100% agree I was astounded between the es1 and 2 I get a ton of compliments on how my 314ce sounds plugged in i am I love with it and have been the last 8 years
This is how a review is done!! Excellent!
I liked the ES1 as it had a crisper sound. I guess for those that like it less crisp you could use the tone controls. I thought the ES2 lacked that sparkle but similarly I guess you could adjust the tone controls. Thanks for doing the comparison.
I have a 2012 914ce cindy with es 1 system and I play it through a fishman 220SA and I have to say I think it sounds beautiful unplugged or plugged but if I wasn't worried about scratching my 4500.00 guitar I'd mike it with eq flat because I still think thats the best way to get the true experiance of the craftmenship and love that was put into a upper end guitar and the true sound of the wood..
We are waiting for the es3 !!
Please guys combine and blend both previous electronics in order to keep the best of these two systems...
Greetings from Greece
The ES1 sounds like a processed live sound while the ES2 is more natural sounding. The ES2 is more muted in this clip but I'm sure some EQ can manage that issue.
Just bought the new v brace 414ce-r Special Edition Edge Burst from GC and It sounds Incredible to me . The preamp isnt as hot as I like but I realized the pickup adjustments and equalizer allowed me to achieve alot more gain and fine tune my sound by increasing the volume of the treble and bass eq's and lowering the E-A and B-E pickup sensors to maintain the balance of my tone while increasing gain . I think that ability is pretty awesome and wish I had that ability on other systems I have .
Wow! Reading the comments sure tells me how much we all hear differently and have different views on what a plugged in guitar sounds like. Here's my take:
1) I am going to assume that the miced sound is most likely closest to what the guitar really sounds like. You can argue positioning etc.
2) Some people say they want their amplified to be "Their guitar only louder" but really ultimately don't want "Their guitar only louder" because then they find it too boomy and less defined when those sound waves start ringing around the room they're in.
3) ES2 seems to be closer to the miced sound of the guitar. The ES1 is brighter and more defined articulate notes and is perhaps closer to what people actually are used to hearing.
4) I liked the ES2 recording much better. I feel I can take that sound and EQ it with my preamp and bring out the detail I need and take away a little of the mud. At least I am starting with an acoustic sound and not an electric sound.
The ES2 sounds just a bit closer to what the guitar really sounds when compared to the ES1 in a one-on-one situation; but I like the ES1 more. I think it cuts better through the mix than the ES2 in a band environment and the sparkle that I like is a bit lost with the ES2.
I’ve seen so many comments saying the es system is trash compared to replacements such as LR Baggs or K&K. Is there a flaw in the es system? Or is it just a matter of preference?
It's hard to say one is better over the other. To me the ES1 had more warmth in the sound, while the ES2 had more punch. I'd be curious to see how drastically you can alter the sound with the ES2's eq. Having a broad range of sounds really helps when you play in multiple settings.
Thanks for the informative video Chris.
Given the limitations of RUclips and that this isn't an apples-2-apples comparison, it's difficult to evaluate what you've so beautifully presented.
I liked the sound from every example. But I most liked the tonal range & complexity of the "natural" sound that came from the 416 miked out in front. It was full and had a very pleasant string presence.
While both the ES -1 or ES-2 examples were very close to the natural acoustic sound, neither had much string presence at all.... And to me, string sound is an important expressive tool for those players who desire to milk whatever variety they can from the instrument. Given that, what I liked next was the fuller sound of the 416 with the ES-2; however, because the comparison is not 414 to 414, or 416 to 416, how could anyone know how much of the fuller sound is strictly due to the 416's bigger lower bout (which is specifically designed for fuller bass)? The answer is, we can't really know.
The takeaway for me is that both ES systems are sweet and quite faithfull to the natural acoustic sound; but as designed they can't pick up the strings. So for any songs I'm performing where that string presence is important to me, I'd make sure that I'm situated in front of an additional external microphone (pointing at the strings).
Just got my first Taylor today. It's got the ES2 on it. I'm excited!!!
Also I thought the ES2 sounded more compressed and cloudy than the ES1 which sounded much brighter and full here. I also dislike how Taylor's reserving the ES2 for their higher end guitars when the ES2 may not necessarily be better. It also doesn't add justice to the 300-400 series which are solid body and still sound fantastic!
Here's my view: Neither are completely true to the guitars own acoustic voice, the ES1 adds something to its voice, sometimes its a good addition sometimes a bad one. The ES2 i feel takes something away which is not good either. Neither are perfect but they are still GREAT
Im after the new 810 and i will be adding a LR Baggs lyric to that baby.
great comment
No system would exactly recreate the guitar's acoustic voice, for the simple reason that they don't pick the final "product" of the voice. Only an external source (in other words, a good mic) can pick that. But since using a mic, at least in live settings, is basically useless, the trick is to have a system that can pick up the most important parts of that voice inside the guitar and, with preamp, EQ, etc., recreate that tone at least the most accurate possible.
The ES1 still sounds the best. I respect the ES1 and ES2 for its purpose of being a "live" pickup to cut though the mix but as far as solo and folk style music, you get the best natural sound from the L.R Baggs. Anthem or Lyric. Even the L.R Baggs iBeam sounds better natural to me than the ES1 but expect feedback if you do not EQ the 200-500hz out a bit.
Great video. I can't say enough good things about my Taylor 310 with a piezo pick up I put in and wired straight to an output jack. I plug that in to an outboard preamp and it sounds great. For a long time I thought there was something wrong with the ES1 system in this 814 I have been playing. I can hear now from this video that they all really do sound bad, especially up in the higher register when you dig in like Chris says. Sounds like on out of phase humbucker! I just can't believe how Taylor can make such a beautiful sounding guitar and then pack so much electronic crap in it. A 2 foot cat 5 ethernet cable?!? really? it's crazy the amount of wires and components they packed these with.
had an ES1 on a guitar that i sent for a fret rehab, the luthier (the shop owner) blamed taylor for placing the ES1 under the fretboard because he broke the ES1. i loved the sound of the ES1, i now have the taylor 322ce 12fret & happy too about the ES2. i still miss the ES1 sound of my taylor, he replaced the broken ES2 with a Fishman Sonitone but which is only Class A. not the authentic one. 😑
The ES1 would probably work better for situations where you cannot eq the guitar. It has a nice bright tone that sounds pretty good on its own. However, I much prefer the ES2. I can hear the detail of his fingers plucking the strings. With some slight eq, the ES2 could sound absolutely incredible. It retains the character and responsiveness of the Taylor guitar. Great video! This helps a lot.
Really enjoyed the comparison.To my ear, the ES1 sounded better fingerpicking. It's a closer call when strumming. As other commenters pointed out, having the opportunity to tweak the settings might alter my conclusions. Question. I bought an 814ce in mid 2013. My preamp has only one switch to turn off the body pickup(s). The Taylor videos from 2008 show the preamp with two switches. What changed?
Timothy Dowd Taylor removed one the body sensors in the latest version of the ES1. Older versions have two body sensors and two switches.
I have a Taylor 412RE that has the ES2 and I don't mind the pickup. But its all preference to a certain point. I dont know if I would prefer the magnetic pick up on my guitar but I know I like the one I have. And seeing hearing the audio in the video I preferred how the ES2 type pickup as I heard more body and presence through that one.
I clearly prefer the ES2. Thanks for the demo. I'm looking forward to running sound for some of the new high-end Taylors
Amazing easter eggs in the video! Super "discrete" string tapping with every technical spec delivered - You're magicians over at Alamo Music Centre
I have 3 Taylors.
The first one I bought had the Fishman Blender.
The others use ES and ES2.
The Blender is superior to both in every respect in my opinion.
Both Taylor systems have a hollow honk sound that I have never figured out how to dial out without completely destroying tone.
I will be selling those two guitars eventually.
I'm going to begin buying guitars without electronics and start installing my own.
I'll buy one of your guitars!
How do you know it's not just the sound of the older guitar you like more? The older wood acoustic is usually going to sound better. You'd really need 3 guitars of the same year and make with the only difference being the pickup systems.
The Taylor systems both sound very nasally to my ears.
Unplugged those guitars don't sound nasally.
The Blender system sounds like my guitar.
I have an ES-T in my Taylor K16ce LTD koa, and it sounds great when natural, but amplified it sounds too brittle. I also have an older (much cheaper) Taylor that uses the old Fishman system, and I much prefer the sound I get when playing through an amp or PA! Tips on “taming” the ES-T much appreciated.
I have several Taylors; some with ES1, some with ES2. While I love the sound of the ES2 (very rich), I have excessive feedback problems using them live. I have several Fishman Loudbox amps which I line out into the PA, and sometimes I go direct into the PA with a TRS/XLR wire. When I use the older ES1, I feel that I have more feedback control regardless of going into the amp or direct to a PA. Mostly I play in a 5-piece Rock/Americana band which magnifies the complexity trying to get a good sound without feedback issues. In an ideal environment with optimum control, the ES2 is sweeter. Still, I prefer the ES1 as it keeps me out of trouble. Thanks Chris!
Just ordered a Spring 2014 LTD 416ce with the ES2 system. Needless to say I am really looking forward to checking it out! Seems to me that if it sounds a bit dark you could always bump up the treble a bit? Or switch to 80/20 bronze strings. I assume you had the tone controls set flat when you did the demo? Thanks - nice video!
***** Update - just had the new Taylor at its first rehearsal - running direct into a PA. The sound was nice and full, definitely not too dark. I actually turned the treble knob down to about 10 o'clock and had the bass flat, with the volume up around 2-3 o'clock. It sounded, well, like an acoustic guitar. Full and clear. Definitely made a good first impression.
The ES 1 sounds way better
Thanks for the video! I own a 2003 710ce that has an ES1 in place of the original Fisham Box.
I personally think the ES1 sound better but always a bit too thin whereas the ES2 always seems to sound a bit too muddy. The mic'd Sure sounds the best.
I may try an LR Baggs Anthem instead. Would love to see a comparison with that as well.
Thanks again (I finished up at Texas State San Marcos, so you are in my former stomping grounds there at Alamo!).
Isn't it correct that Taylor now uses the ES2 on all their acoustic electrics? According to specs on the Taylor website it would seem so.
great video,for me the es2 is more natural sound and less nasal than es1.
Sound and tone is always an individual subjective judgment. That being said I really like the sound of the ES2. To my ears the low strings are clearer and the overall sound is just more 'open' which may be a function of more brightness. I actually liked the sound better than the mic. After hearing this demo my hope is that Taylor can retrofit this ES2 system into older ES1 guitars. Thanks for the comparison video.
I use the 814ce with the original ES and really appreciate the video comparison. For strumming, the ES-2 system sounds very natural and it sounds more like it is mic'd. For finger picking the original ES system seems to capture the details. IN practice I record with 2 mics and the expression system engaged and mix in the balance that I need. Now if we could only have both systems and a system to choose or balance between them!
No expression system is going to sound better than a dual mic setup but in live performance and for dialing in details when recording, these systems are invaluable.
Thanks again Chris. I really appreciate making this video available to world. RUclips has incredible reach. - Scotty
9
Interesting comparison. I agree with many here that the ES1 sounds a bit harsh and thin with a lack of base compared to the ES2. The ES2 sounds muffled to me. Maybe it is somewhat better than an under the saddle piezo but it certainly has that annoying nasal typical piezo character. Comparing the two constructions it is pretty obvious that the ES2 must save Taylor a lot of production time and cost. The ES2 just sits in three holes in the bridge, and in the end of the cable there is a 2.5 mm plug that goes into the preamp. The ES1 is much more complicated with more components to be mounted at different places into the body and under the fretboard. A problem with the ES2 is that it can fall out. Nothing holds it in place in the bridge other than the friction of the wood and the pressure from the three piezo elements. If you don't keep a 1.4 mm Allen key in your guitar case, you will have to get the guitar to a repair shop if a fall out occurs.
I'm just starting and was ready to buy a 114e. I understand that the new 114 ce is only about $150 extra and has the es-2 in this years model. Do you agree that is a good deal for bot the cut out and upgraded pick up?
+Howard Forman Might be worth bumping up to the 214ce dlx at that ppoint
i love my 2006 ES1 AA bat 814ce. In fact I goofed up and destroyed the sensor harness but i have located one and getting it put it ASAP. I love my ES1
I've got the 414CE and i do believe it has the ES2. I get complaints from sound that it has a weak signal. I took it to a Taylor certified shop and they compared it to Taylor's they had and said it's the same. I've considered putting in a different system but I've also done some research and, apparently, it required balanced cable. Can any one confirm?
Is it possible that this video isn't the apples-for-apples comparison it was meant to be? I'm only asking this because of something I read today in Taylor's Wood & Steel Fall 2014 (an article starting on Page 6). In that article there's no in-depth comparison between the two Taylor systems, but the writer gives his opinion that a player needs to tweak the controls to find the best tone from any system. So what I'm taking away from having read that article and then watching this video is we can't really compare the relative usefulness of the old Taylor system versus the new system by simply listening to each of them with the identical tone settings. Instead, I would think the most useful comparison would show how each system sounds after the player tweaks the nobs to his satisfaction. If by exploring the EQ settings of both systems a player finds a more satisfying tone on one of the systems, then that system is the winner! Btw: I appreciate this video very much for what it shows us ---- I just think it's worth pointing out what isn't shown in the video. Thanks for the doing this! :)
+Alamo Music - I don't dissagree "Aiamo Music (and you're right about a more accurate discription)". Also, yes indeed, surely if you have a better guitar to your liking you sould indeed be happy. All I'm saying is the I love the Taylor sound, I don't want a natrual sound or an acoustic sound, I want the Taylor sound, the one that captured my haart as a yoyoung singer & musician. I grew up listening to it, have always wanted it and finally got it several years ago. I grew up listenling to it from artist like Hall & Oats. James Taylor, etc. (James Taylor also plays Olsen guitars) All my friends wanted Taylors guitars. In my opinion, & possibly my opinion only, Thd ES2 takes away that magic & replaces it with something that many other guitars have.However, in the end I guess we all must submit "to each his of her own." what ever makes one happy is what they shold have, sail on good friend & keeop your joys close close to you, Goodbye-
+Allen DeSomer We will be doing a follow video shortly to discuss best practices with pickup EQ and signal chain.
I appreciate the comparison. I have a Taylor 615ce with an ES1 system. From the very first time I plugged it into the sound system at the venue I perform at, nobody was happy to hear it. For some reason with my guitar the top b and e strings were louder than the rest on an even strum. Annoying. I sent it back to Taylor to see if that could be adjusted. Nope. Got it back with same result. We tried to EQ the heck out it with minimal success. I never used it live because I was so unhappy with the sound. I then went to a DPA 4099G clip on mic that worked quite nicely to a point. It was able to reproduce the real sound of the guitar accurately. It sounded as sweet as an acoustic Taylor should sound. I LOVE THE SOUND OF TAYLOR GUITARS when they can shine acoustically. PROBLEM... with the DPA?... The stage volume had to be relatively low. I play and sing at the same time, and on the softer songs when we had to bring the mic level up on the guitar, it would pick up my voice and make it sound hallow. No feedback problems because we use in-ears. AND THEN... this last month I got an LR Baggs Anthem in the guitar. OH MY!!!! What a difference. It sounds like my guitar has a studio mic in front of it, yet we can boost up the volume of the guitar with no problem. Also, I was glad we were able to use the same battery drawer with the new system. One nice feature of the ES. I understand that if one adds in the TC Electronics BodyRez and the LR Baggs Venue DI, you'll play for hours/days/weeks/months without stopping because you'll fall so deeply in love with the sound of your guitar through the sound system. I'll find out this next week. Have fun exploring!
comparison starts at 6:45
Thanks for the demo! I was hoping Taylor would come up with something different. I like the ES2 better as it's sounds more natural especially while finger picking. It does lack some of the sparkle of the mic'd tone and the original ES but perhaps some EQ tweaking could address that. To my ears the original ES has a nasal metallic tone which never appealed to me. I've tried to EQ it to get rid of it but was never satisfied. Just my opinion......to each his own.
Yes in this vid, i can imagine that people prefer the ES1, sounds much brighter / crisper. But the Taylor with ES2 from this vid can be tuned by turning the 3 screws / knobs, so it sounds more like the ES1. For example, the low and mid can be reduced (my ear tells me that they are too loud compared to the highest screw / knob, which represents the high tones). My 214ce sounded terrible with the factory settings, when turning and tweaking the es2 knobs, it sounds so much better!
Thanks for the demo. I'm listening with a AT-M50 headset and what I'm hearing is that neither system really captured the natural tone of the guitar. The ES1 pushed the highs, and yes, sounded like a magnetic pickup. But the ES2 didn't really sound any more '"natural" but simply lost some of the highs and sounded darker. I'm wondering how messing with the tone knobs or EQ settings on an amp might negate the differences?
Add some bass and treble to the ES2 (214CE SB DLX) and it sounds like this ruclips.net/video/mYSF-1F_3_Y/видео.html
My Taylor's ES1 is debatable, it does sound nice with certain things but I find on the higher frets on the higher strings it sounds quite tinny. In comparison to the old fishman pickups and the takamine guitars it has a much lower output and doesn't have such a hard sound which I do personally prefer. It's still a quality sound and sounds very nice with open chords but it depends what sound you prefer I suppose, pro's use it so!
Really great presentation. Really really good. Thanks. A great education and excellent production. Tom Riccobono / NYC
Bought a 414 ce recently , I seem to do that often . Just before they come out with the updated . Just wanted to say thanks for the to the point video.
after listening to the whole presentation I think the es2 sounds best but I do agree with this guy below Allen. A hard comparison to make without really getting down and dirty. All good. Thanks
Looking at the tone knobs, it looks like they weren't really used at all to shape the sound of the guitar. While he is playing they are all facing the same direction. I wonder if the guitars would've sounded better if they were actually used? ES1 sounds a bit too bright, ES2 sounds a bit dull and lifeless.
Very interesting - This is the first time I've heard a like for like comparison of either the ES1 or ES2 system directly against a quality mic (which when positioned right always gives a much better, fuller, more natural tone than any pick-up system I've come across). Personally I think the ES2 gives a much more natural sounding tone than it's predecessor, compared to the mic sound.
However, I also have a 410CE Ltd edition back from 2002 when they were still using the Fishman Prefix Plus set up (it also came with Hawaiian Koa back and sides which, 12 years on sounds sweeter than ever!). However, my search for a much better amplified sound eventually took me to buying a Fishman Aura acoustic imaging pedal several years ago now. With the right set of images and judicious blending of pedal and pick-up sounds I'd still say this sounds way, way better than either the ES1 or ES2 (without some additional EQ'ing to get a better tone). I've demonstrated the Fishman Aura to lots of friends (some of whom are professional musicians) and without exception they're all totally blown away by the quality of the "studio like" tone you get from this. It also deals with feedback amazingly well for loud, live performances.
Hope this helps anyone searching for the holly grail of amplified acoustic sounds like I was for so many years.
I bought a 716ce online 5 or 6 years ago. I loved the guitar but hated the ES so much that I almost returned it. I even called Taylor because I thought there was something wrong with my guitar's electronics. Instead of returning it, I had my guitar tech disconnect the ES and install a Fishman Matrix Infinity. I couldn't be happier.
This is a very informative and well presented video. Thank you!!
Es1 sounds brighter for sure out the box but Im sure with some tweaking or even an equalizer in front the Es2 does sound more natural and those higher frequencies would be heard better. That didnt give a direct answer I use an Es1 and havent played with an Es2 yet so only time will tell plus everyones ear is different.
I like the sound of both systems. The only reason I prefer the ES1 is that the fact you can use a balanced clean cable direct out of the guitar instead of going through a direct box. I would have preferred the option of using XLR connection than just a 1/4” Balanced &/or unbalanced plug. I’m one of those people that would be using a 90 degree XLR connector directly to the guitar just like the original TRS plug that came with the guitar.
Hey Chris I know this was made 4 years ago but as of now the 400 series comes with the ES2 series infact I believe that the 300 series comes with it as well just and FYI and thanks for your videos
I'm used to mixing an external mic signal with the original ES. from the sounds on the video I don't think the ES2 beats that yet...
I’m a recording engineer & I always mic an acoustic guitar in the studio using a tube elect condenser mic (Neumann) going through a hi-end tube mic-pre! (Avalon)
@@sportbigred That's probably the best way to go when you want to record the acoustic ambiance around a guitar. It sounds most natural this way. What I think is also very interesting is mixing in different sounds and exploring what that might sound like. In my opinion it can be very interesting... I might post some of my frolicking with these methods at some point.
For some reason I also still prefer the es over the es2. Next time just compare the two pickups. Forget the mic.
Totally agree! The mic demo added a bit more of a distraction/confusion to the video especially when it was placed 2nd. It would have been better if the ES2 directly followed the ES1 & the mic demo placed last!
Just received a New Taylor 210E Deluxe with ES2. A gift from my Wonderful Son but yet to hear the system thur a amp. Video has me gasing for a New Amp.
The fishman loudbox series and the new Fender Acoustic pro line of amps would be great options. We stock both amps and I would love to make you a great deal on one. - Chris McKee
Nice video Chris!
Man I’m debating on buying the K and K, and putting it in a Taylor 214 which does not have a pick up, the question is whether I should just hold out and wait to find a Taylor with the expression 2 system or install this pick up, I guess it’s going to run me at least 150 for installation plus if I want to buy the hundred dollar preamp. I’m not really sure I could install it myself, especially the whole drilling part, I heard you need to get a special drillbit but it would be nice to save you a few bucks
Didn't particularly like either. I would want to customize the height of the pickup on the ES2 b/c it sounded significantly lacking in terms of High-End volume, Low-End note articulation (clarity) and, that overall sparkle from across the tonal spectrum that made me fall in love with Taylor Guitars in the first place. Thanks for the video though!
Nice test, but no comparison! The ES2 system is a bit better than the old one, but sounds nothing like the mic. It is stiff and harsh in the mids, but doesn't hurt my ears as much as the ES1. I think the secret to good guitar sound is the air between the guitar and the mic. Baggs Lyric (mic) comes closer to genuine acoustic sound, but is touchy to use in front of monitors on a large stage.
it's not a mic!!!
Much prefer the ES1 over the 2. I’d like to buy a new Taylor as a second to my current GS8 with ES1 but prefer the old pickup, it’s obviously cleaner and brighter as you demonstrated
I had a neck reset and fret dressing from my local luthier. When I got it back and plugged it in, the balance was awful. No bass and too much treble. When I tried to adjust the saddle set screws, the little set screw in the middle came all the way out. Now I can't seem to get the little allen set screw to take hold to the threads and stay in place. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks. Good video by the way.
My 2022 Taylor 314e sounded great at the store going directly into a Fishman LoudBox. Took it to band practice and got the most shrill sound I've ever heard. We have Mackie 1402VLZ4 14-channel Mixer. Wether going straight into the mixer or using my Zoom AC-2, it just sounded awful. Any suggestions? The was set up by a Taylor tech, so let's assume we don't need to address the issue with the guitar. Any pedal or settings on the guitar or mixer that could help?
I went into a music story today thinking I would leave with a Martin equipped with the Fishman pickup. I've always one! I was replacing my previous Taylor which had the ES1 system that fail three times over the 8 years I owned it. I was determined to get the Martin. I played both the Taylor and the Martin and loved both.The crucial difference for me choosing the Taylor was when I did some shoot outs with both the guitar's plugged in. The new ES pickup sounded way better than the Martin plugged in. The GPCPA4 pickup failed to translate the glorious tones I was hearing unplugged. As a working musician, I had to go with the superior plugged in sound.
Hello! I owned a Taylor 214ce with ES2. If I want to restring my guitar, should I loosen the ES2 on the bridge before changing it?
Alamo Music, thanks for the great demo. The change in direction that the ES2 system takes from the ES1 system has taken me by surprise. I hear each having its prose and it cons. Depending on your playing style or environment, I could see how a player could love or hate either of them. But I think one of the difficulties in comparing the two is that there is a big tonal shift in the two systems. the ES1 has a bit more mid and trouble energy with a bit more bite. Compared to the ES2 and it's more lade back nature and slightly souped mids, It just is not jumping out at you as much. I do hear the piezo sound in the ES2 but to a much lesser degree than in may other pickups of that type. So I think they both do there own thing but the answer to me would be to blend the two. Have both pickups with a blend nob or switch so that you could have the best of both worlds.
Unfortunately, he's playing with his bare thumb. The first ES1 Expression System sounds really bad when using a thumbpick though. It can't handle sharp attacks without generating a lot of quack. This new ES2 version sounds duller in this video for some reason, but if you play one yourself I think you'll be surprised how great it sounds.
With the ES2 there should be a second piezo pickup (like LR Baggs element) under the saddle and a blender inside the soundhole for mixing both signals.
The ES2 started more than one year ago and nearly each Taylor (300 series and up) will be sold with the new ES2 but there are less reviews and comparisons to find on the web.
Why ?
Greatings from Germany. Klaus
I have two 914s (I bought in 2000 and 2001), and in both I had a simple FIshman Matrix II installed under the saddle with a Fishman Cleartone Saddle. No controls. Only the end pin Matrix II preamps (that does require a 9v inside the body) and the piezo. They sound better than anything I've heard. It's a shame Fishman discontinued the Matrix Series. They were the absolute best.
The sure beta external Mike sounded better than the internal pickups
ES2 - HANDS DOWN! - I've got a custom 910 and never liked the live sound of the ES1, but the ES2 in your EXCELLENT DEMO has a WAY better acoustic sound.
Still playing a 300 series from early 2000's with a Fishman system and have always preferred it to any ES's I hear. Plugged into a PA it has more drive. ES's may be more "natural" but in a live situation with a band they sound thin to me. Thanks for the comparison!
Hi Chris, I always enjoy you videos. I think the ES2 is better than the ES1 when plugged in direct. However your test is too confusing. It would have been better if you didn't include a mic and just compared the two using only direct plug in. After all that's what we're talking about. Everyone knows that an external mic will give you better sound when used alone or with a pickup. I'd like to see you do a non-mic'ed comparison. That way we'd get to hear them side by side without getting confused with other things.
Your right for me es2 sounds better because es1 is to bright
After watching and listening better, I have to say that I like the ES1 more than the 2. Comparing to the mic, regardless of what some may have written before, it's actually ES1 CLOSER to the mic sound, at least from this video. Of course, none of them sound like a mic (they're not mics), but the ES1 can be tweaked easier to sound close to the sound of a good mic with a good preamp, especially since the ES2 has too much mid in this video
Demo starts at 6:40
Best for me is B-Band 2.2 AST/UST.....sounds incredible in my 3 Guitars.....so i decided to sell my Taylor 414 CE with ES1
I LOVE my ES2-equipped Taylor. Yes, it's very different from other pickups. But I think we've grown accustomed to the typical piezo-treble-y tone. I certainly was, seeing as how every other electric/acoustic I've ever owned used variations of that same under-saddle technology. At first, the tone of the ES2 threw me a bit, and I didn't like it. But a few tone tweaks had me hooked. I find it to be incredibly natural-sounding (which again was a bit foreign to my ears at first, since most under-saddle pickups sound anything but natural). The pick attack is great, and I get rather thunderous (but not muddy) bass out of the thing.
Perhaps specific to me, but I do a lot of bridge-slapping to create a kick drum sound for live looping. The ES2 sounds almost like an actual kick drum when thumped, and the bass tone is incredibly deep and tight.
I might find myself soon adjusting the pickup elements a bit (like, 1/8 turn at a time) just to balance the strings more to my liking, but I would never say they are "imbalanced" in any way. It's just the tone-tweaker in me....
If I have any complaints, I might want a bit more of a sweep for the tone controls; a slightly bigger curve would be nice. Perhaps a dedicated midrange knob. Maybe an onboard tuner (though we all seem to use headstock tuners anyway these days). But overall, my ES2-equipped Taylor (a 214ce Deluxe) is the best-sounding A/E guitar I've ever owned.
For the tone geeks: I use a Bose L1 Model II for my live rig, with the T1 ToneMatch mixer. The preset for the the Taylor T5 is excellent for the ES2 system; it adds a slight mid-scoop, deep bass, and some shimmer to the highs. I've also got a Wampler Ego compressor, adding just a hint of compression/sustain, blended about 35-40% with the dry signal. I plan on trying to eliminate the compressor, or use it solely as a boost, but haven't messed with that setup just yet.
First, this is perfect, it is just the review I was looking for to compare the two side by side. I personally like the ES1 over the ES2, because like you said, the ES1 sounds more metallic/magnetic/bright vs. the ES2 which is a piezo, and piezo really makes guitars sound muddy. I only like piezo for lead guitar, because I like the muddy electric guitar pickup sound, if that makes sense. If Iʻm strumming, which I do a lot, a like a bright undersaddle type of sound. I love the new guitars, especially the Fall 2014 Limited Editions, they are the most beautiful guitars from Taylor in a great while. I would suggest making some of the new guitars with the ES1, because I am very interested in the new Taylors.
How does this compare with the SRT electronics system in the Yamaha AC3R? Im about to buy one or the other. Played the Taylor 214ce today and it sounded and played perfect, I almost bought it, but $1200 for the taylor when I can get the Yamaha for 800 with a 100 dollar rebate and a hardshell case. Not sure if the Taylor comes with the hardshell case? I am mostly a stummer but getting the cut a way and intend on improving my lead playing. Why not the Yamaha for 400 bucks less? I can buy more equipment with that 400 bucks. So will I be paying 400 bucks more just to say I own a Taylor or is the quality worth the extra for real? I have a Yamaha FG345 (no electronics) and get nothing but compliments from alot of very good musicians
I have an AC3R and the SRT is great, and all solid wood apart from the 214.The ES-1 sound too much magnetic pickup, the SRT is way better. The ES-2 is a big step forward from the ES-1, but SRT i just as good or better. A thing to keep in mind is that it takes some time to find the optimum settings for the SRT, it can shurely sound like shit too in my opinion. I use only the first mic mod setting and the mix knob at 100% mic. Then I cut quite alot on the mid eq.
The only thing on the AC3R that I'm not happy with is the tuners. I have tried the limited edition, handbuilt AC6R and that i a stunning guitar all the way.
The ES 2 sounded more like the mic used.
I have a 12 string 2016 458e with ES2. It sounds GREAT through a Loudbox Artist, but I'm trying to get it to sound good through my 1965 Princeton Reverb (real one) with some magic box in between. Any ideas? I don't want to carry 2 amps to play the Taylor and my SG. Thanks for the video comparison.
I totally recognized that song from Darrell Evans you played in the demo!
I know that song you were playing! I love Darrell Evans worship
me too! 😊
Excellent job starting at 6:44. Please, please people, start with the actual sound samples of the instrument and pickups. ES2 would work way better for the music that I do. I vastly prefer the sound of the mic. Why can't somebody make that happen in a pickup?
John Norland LR Baggs Anthems are a great choice if that's what you're looking for!
Is the mic supposed to be used for this test?
Hi Guys, great video, much appreciated since I don't think any store in Perth Australia has the ES2 yet. But I wonder if you's offer an opinion, 814ce 2013 or 814ce 2014, both exceptional guitars of course, but likely a big price gap, over here, so I guess I would like an opinion re. the value I (as a very average, mainly rhythm and some finger style, church on Sunday) am likely to see in the new versus the older 814 es1. I love Andy Powers views on guitars, but Bob Taylor designed my 514 more than 12 years ago and I love that interment as well.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I had a customer dealing with the same issue only he already owned an older 814ce. He purchased the new 814ce and sold his old one. I think the new one is a great improvement and worth the additional money. The older ones are great but the newer ones are better.
Nothing Taylor has compares to the LR Baggs Anthem. I have one installed on my D35 Martin, it doesn’t sound like a pickup, it sounds like the guitar. The last Taylor I had couldn’t keep intonation, I don’t know if it’s the screw on neck, but my Martin has a dove tail neck joint and never goes out of tune, let alone any intonation issues. I guess to each their own.
I have a Martin D 16 i can't get it to intonate correctly i love the tone . I'm getting ready to get my first Taylor
Well, it seems like Taylor still didn't solve the true Natural Acoustic Sound picking up problem. I've got a simple Taylor 114, no electronics and it sounds great. I'm thinking of adding a K&K Pure or LR Baggs Lyric, way better than any of these ES systems sound, plus less electronics inside.
Did they change which models get the ES-2 since you made this? I swear I saw a 214ce Grand Deluxe with an ES-2.
Great question. Yes they did. I believe it was at the end of 2015 all models now have ES-2, including GSmini and Baby Taylors. - Chris McKee
Nobody responds to questions that quickly.
;)
Great video. Not a very fair comparison tho. The 14 and the 16 series have very different natural tones. The 16 has a much deeper tone to me which is why I love my 416. I would love to here the 416 in both es1 and 2 if possible.
We would have liked to do the exact same guitar. Sadly this was the closest comparison we could do with the older and newer pickup.
Yes, ideally you want to use the same model... BUT! Comparing miked vs. direct on both kicks ass and leaves no questions... That´s what this comparison is all about, which imo is most important and relevant. Great job Chris!
Thanks for the very helpful comparison. ES2 for sure. Sounds more like a live mic, although still not as nice as a live mic tone.
Taylors - the higher the series number the how different or better the instrument? Your ES1 has a rounded, articulate but slightly 'boxy' feel, ES2 appears louder (because of the different balance between bass mid and treble saddles?), has open and percussive quality: however, in my view the 'best' - to me the more 'natural' acoustic guitar tone is achieved just through your microphone; if I were buying a Taylor I would not have the electrics and use the money I save on the purchase price to add to my spend on a high-quality microphone.
The ES2 System also come equipped in the 356ce model 12 string guitar. Just saying!
I notice that on my es 1 414ce that when I have to use a direct box, I have to turn the volume way up. What's with that?
I like the sound produced by the Sure mic. IMHO, the ES2 sounds a bit more closer to the Sure mic than the ES1. Thanks for the comparison. My ES1 crapped out on me this past weekend and I'm getting the ES1 replaced by the ES2.
I just replaced my ES1 with an ES2 in my 914ce. Big mistake! I’m having the ES1 reinstalled. Listen to the string noice of the ES2 on the video and the metallic sound it produces.