For me it is org mode and babel. I can create a task to investigate an issue and use clocking to track the time. Using SQL src blocks in org, my task notes can document what I tried and the results that take me to the next step. Those results are in an org table which usually is a row or two with lots of columns. Run a command to transpose the table and now it is in an easy to read format to export as a pdf or html email.
@@skybert personally nothing, but every now and then someone mentions an obscure refactor that intelliJ has which i don't care about and quickly forget
@@pushqrdx the one thing I used to miss, is what my colleague called "safe refactoring", meaning your code would compile wherever you were in the refactoring workflow. With the progress in LSP, I no longer miss that. But I'm sure there are other things. IntelliJ is absolutely awesome. Speaking of which, I wonder how the Kotlin support is in Emacs. Do you know?
@@skybert Oh yeah, it depends on the language server, IntelliJ still is better with some JVM languages, Regarding Kotlin, It was okay, not as fast as IntelliJ though, mainly because the available kotlin language server didn't have incremental compilation support iirc. Also refactoring was kinda broken, even basic renaming didn't work. However standard features, like completion, find def, hover, signature help, xref worked fine. The Java language server works very well on the other hand.
for me its emacs' extendibility, org mode, and babel. i don't really do much programming, but it's a huge help for notetaking and for providing a great environment for doing academic research.
It's cool Emacs can be great at totally different use cases. As for Babel, I've never tried it out, must put that on my list. What kind of things do you use it for?
Same boat here, I can't hardly code a line (but I may finally be serious about starting to learn) but org-roam is fantastic for notes both work and personal. And Emacs for general use like managing config files and other items is just handy. As a side bonus you get nerd cred "I use Emacs, BTW" (Just kidding!).
I know you're saying it for effect (and it's something that people say), GNU Emacs has been around a long time, but it's also bang up to date. Lots of hackers working on it, regular releases, new ways of going things (eg LSP) and all sorts. I love the way that GNU Emacs tends to eat text editors and add any of their good ideas.
Although emacs is my default IDE, I prefer to select the instrument that is most effective to solve the task. Well, I still couldn't configure debugging to be usable. So I use classic IDEs like vscode, QtCreator for that.
My experience is that the the Emacs/dap debugger for Java is consistent and usable for debugging unit tests. I use it for remote debugging too, but it has bugs that sometimes become too annoying and I switch over to IDEA. That said, it must have been like 6 months since last time I visited IDEA. I've been wanting to file more bug reports against dap, but time has failed me to set up a proper environment where I can share my setup (since all of my work is on proprietary software, I cannot share the non-trivial setup that triggers the bugs).
@@fgtdjkg modern IDE are much better, you don't need to jump around using dated clunk tools and spending hours configuring them over and over and over.
Thanks, mate. Good to know you're not alone 🙂 In case you want to have a look at my setup, I'm using davmail to bridge Outlook/EWS to IMAP & SMTP and mu4e for reading and sending in Emacs. - Emacs mail conf: gitlab.com/skybert/my-little-friends/-/blob/master/emacs/.emacs#L443= - Setting up DavMail: www.skybert.net/various/read-outlook-365-email-in-your-favourite-email-client/
I don't really see how using emacs for email is "extreme". Emacs's mail clients are kinda the best around, better than mutt for sure. It also makes perfect sense to use hotkeys you use to edit other text to edit mail text.
It all depends on perspective, doesn't it? Working in an environment where everyone's using Outlook native clients with HTML-rich text mail only, I register a fair share of surprised faces when they see me using Emacs: "He's using Notepad for reading mail?!!". Having to use davmail because of EWS only, is a bit of a pain, but the end result is worth it. Fast and clutter free email.
Exactly pal, notmuch user here. I used Thunderbird in the past however it lacks over various aspects.. switching n setting up a notmuch emacs config was a total game changer in my case. First of all, email searching at the speed of light 😎
It's not in the slightest "extreme." Emails (apart from those who insist on sending pseudo-emails - and those can be dealt with) are text. I use mu4e and can integrate emails and links to emails into org-mode, my agenda, in fact anywhere that Emacs goes. Rather than "extreme", it's entirely rational.
I want to really agree with you am at the start point of either learning vim or Emacs am finding really hard times with Emacs. Leaving everything aside Emacs taking 10 seconds more than vim on older hardware. It's really handy and so much extra work of pressing keys at the same time than ViM specially after seeing neovim replicating functionality Emacs with lua. Then in vim a basic feature of cursor left in insert mode. It can be handicapping for someone i don't want to know I can press I or A or a in such cases or you can press left-arrow when no one is seeing.
Yes, that's a tough choice. I'd say, use the one you like the best 😊 Vim will always be faster than Emacs, although gccemacs may improve some scenarios.
@@skybert thank you for understanding. I am moving from Joplin. In emacs what's the best case for sync and encryption ? I learned the epa-encrypt-file with gpg yesterday how can I sync org files with Android with encryption and decryption on Android? Am using Dropbox as medium to sync. Found orgzly very handy app to handle this scenario of sync over Emacs to droid but sadly has no encryption or decryption option. I consider my notes very sensitive like my life's earning I don't want to provide a loophole for it to be compromised. Any input will be really obliged.
I hear you. I think things are improving, but the out-of-the-box experience of Code & friends will always be ahead. Check out my video on setting Emacs for JavaScript/TypeScript/Node development, including remote debugging in Firefox and tell me what you think: ruclips.net/video/Pc7ty1n68C0/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@skybert Nice dude, yeah I eventually gave up on my own config, and started tweaking my Spacemacs config instead. I am only using my old Emacs config for Org mode these days.
@@skybert That's brave. My Emacs init, though I have it under control in org-mode, has all sorts of junk in it. I'd be afraid that people would point and laugh :-D
Personally, I think arrow keys are much more efficient. It only takes one key instead of combination of two keys. Same thing with C-a and C-e. I use home key and end key. Pgup and pgdn as well. I don't care about staying on home row, because most of the time I'm browsing the web and therefore I use my mouse more than my keyboard. I use Emacs because of cua mode and org mode. And it works in terminal.
@@catavaran I used to use it a long time ago, but after thousands of hours of use, my j finger started to hurt and I realized that point and click, as well as a wheel plus extra buttons were much more efficient and had less pain on your fingers. It was a fun experience tho
First off, if you're happy with cua and org, that's great. Just keep on going that way. We all use Emacs the way we like best :-) > arrow keys are much more efficient. Even though you don't mind straying off home row to get a single keystroke, there are more navigation shortcuts than left, right, home and end. What about forward word? Forward block (jump to the end parenthesis or brace), forward sentence? Also, I would like to challenge you to give it a week: - spend an hour following the Emacs tutorial C-h t - spend a week only using Emacs shortcuts for movement (no arrow keys, home or page up/down). The second week, I will bet you're both a quite bit faster and also find that you spend less energy thinking about moving around and more time pondering what to write in your editor.
@@skybert Thanks, but no thanks. I've gone through the challenge a long time ago. This is what I ended up with after years of experience. Forward word: C-left or right. Forward paragraph: C-up or down. Forward parenthesis: M-left or right (this is not by default though). Forward sentence: Never thought of that one before. With the arrow keys, it's intuitive, you don't need to stretch your fingers and you can do it with only one hand if you are feeling lazy. You can also select texts using shift and I think M-Shift-arrow is much better than C-M-Shift-f or b. That said, I just realized that one of the biggest advantages of Emacs is the ability to map key bindings. So I guess any combination would be fine as long as it gets the job done.
I have used emacs for years. I still use it every day. But my excitement is gone, it's just an editor, but the only thing that suits me. I don't recommend using emacs shells because they suck. I use emacs in a Kitty terminal and I use arrow keys pretty often
Do you think emacs will stay alive for more time because when I look at google trends, I see that it is still losing popularity and while I think emacs is great software, I wouldn't want to invest much time in it to see it die like atom for example
Hi Ice. Great question! The short answer is yes, I believe so. I started out learning Emacs in 1999 and I'm still reaping the benefits of those initial 2 weeks where I just wanted to throw the keyboard in the wall. After that, things steadily improved and I've been improving my Emacs foo ever since. The slightly longer answer is that since Emacs has such a hard core of devoted developers and users, I mean, *really* devoted, like Liverpool fans who'll support their theme even though they'd be relegated to 4th division, it'll always be updated and improved. Emacs is different, and not hip. It'll never be. But this ensures that those few that *do* use and like Emacs, will continue to use it because it's always familiar, always available, on all platforms that you may use in your careeer. There's a few good talks on the future of Emacs, see e.g.: - emacsconf.org/2021/talks/forever/ - ruclips.net/video/KYcY7CcS7nc/видео.html Cheers, -Torstein
People are lying to themselfs when they talk about vim and emacs being more efficient. I don't think I'm faster than my colleges because I use Emacs. Sometimes i'm probably even slower. Highlighting something with a mouse can be faster but personally my soul hurts everytime I have to use a mouse, hah. There's nothing wrong with just liking an editor, like I use Emacs mostly because it gives me a reason to use lisp and I like lisp!
Hi Adrian, > People are lying to themselfs when they talk about vim and emacs > being more efficient. I don't think I'm faster than my colleges > because I use Emacs. Do note that this video is about "Why *I* use use Emacs in 2022", not "Why *everyone* should use Emacs in 2022". As for lying to myself: One of the points I'm trying to make in the video, is that people choosing Emacs over more comfortable IDEs like Visual Studio or IntelliJ is because they prioritise a stellar text editing environment over all the bells and whistles (refactoring tools, code assistance++) that the modern IDEs provide. And when it comes to the efficiency of text editing, that's measurable and thus no illusion. > Sometimes i'm probably even slower. Highlighting something with a > mouse can be faster but personally my soul hurts everytime I have to > use a mouse, hah. I'm curious to know what operations that would be. Could you create a screen cast showing: - edit text - mark some text/expression - edit text in which it's apparent that it's faster using the mouse, rather than Emacs shortcuts? > There's nothing wrong with just liking an editor, like I use Emacs > mostly because it gives me a reason to use lisp and I like lisp! That's good reason, indeed. I like Lisp too. Haven't programmed much since the uni days, though.
That's a pity. Have you tried posting on emacs.Stackexchange.com or on the issue tracker related to the lsp integration? (emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/page/lsp-csharp-omnisharp/)
All those bloated editors, even including VSCode, just don't deliver the same reliability as having this, rather simple and minimalist, software on your fingertips.
You're describing GNU Emacs as "minimalist"?!?!?! Granted, I have a pretty pared down interface on Emacs, and everything is keyboard driven, but "minimalist", not a chance.
Despair not, there are official, native builds of Emacs for Windows: www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html#Which-versions-of-Windows
Historically, being on Windows was just another reason for me *to* use emacs - eshell gave me a sane terminal without having to learn Powershell! Now I just use emacs on WSL2 and it's actually fantastic.
For me it is org mode and babel. I can create a task to investigate an issue and use clocking to track the time. Using SQL src blocks in org, my task notes can document what I tried and the results that take me to the next step. Those results are in an org table which usually is a row or two with lots of columns. Run a command to transpose the table and now it is in an easy to read format to export as a pdf or html email.
Sounds like a good workflow 👍
Literate programming using org-mode is something I'm looking forward to starting to use properly (not just in my Emacs init).
Also, even though LSP doesn't have all the Jetbrains stuff, it can cover all language features that you get in vscode
True. What Jetbrains stuff do you miss/wish was in Emacs?
@@skybert personally nothing, but every now and then someone mentions an obscure refactor that intelliJ has which i don't care about and quickly forget
@@pushqrdx the one thing I used to miss, is what my colleague called "safe refactoring", meaning your code would compile wherever you were in the refactoring workflow. With the progress in LSP, I no longer miss that.
But I'm sure there are other things. IntelliJ is absolutely awesome.
Speaking of which, I wonder how the Kotlin support is in Emacs. Do you know?
@@skybert Oh yeah, it depends on the language server, IntelliJ still is better with some JVM languages, Regarding Kotlin, It was okay, not as fast as IntelliJ though, mainly because the available kotlin language server didn't have incremental compilation support iirc. Also refactoring was kinda broken, even basic renaming didn't work. However standard features, like completion, find def, hover, signature help, xref worked fine.
The Java language server works very well on the other hand.
for me its emacs' extendibility, org mode, and babel. i don't really do much programming, but it's a huge help for notetaking and for providing a great environment for doing academic research.
It's cool Emacs can be great at totally different use cases.
As for Babel, I've never tried it out, must put that on my list. What kind of things do you use it for?
Same boat here, I can't hardly code a line (but I may finally be serious about starting to learn) but org-roam is fantastic for notes both work and personal. And Emacs for general use like managing config files and other items is just handy. As a side bonus you get nerd cred "I use Emacs, BTW" (Just kidding!).
> "I use Emacs, BTW"
lol. Haven't heard that one before.
I just Arch, btw.
I know you're saying it for effect (and it's something that people say), GNU Emacs has been around a long time, but it's also bang up to date. Lots of hackers working on it, regular releases, new ways of going things (eg LSP) and all sorts.
I love the way that GNU Emacs tends to eat text editors and add any of their good ideas.
Indeed!
Although emacs is my default IDE, I prefer to select the instrument that is most effective to solve the task. Well, I still couldn't configure debugging to be usable. So I use classic IDEs like vscode, QtCreator for that.
My experience is that the the Emacs/dap debugger for Java is consistent and usable for debugging unit tests. I use it for remote debugging too, but it has bugs that sometimes become too annoying and I switch over to IDEA.
That said, it must have been like 6 months since last time I visited IDEA.
I've been wanting to file more bug reports against dap, but time has failed me to set up a proper environment where I can share my setup (since all of my work is on proprietary software, I cannot share the non-trivial setup that triggers the bugs).
Yep, debugging sucks in Emacs. That's why I use gdb from console
@@fgtdjkg modern IDE are much better, you don't need to jump around using dated clunk tools and spending hours configuring them over and over and over.
Even though I use Vim, the arguments completely overlap. Nice argumentation, keep the good work!
Thanks, I will. Vim rocks too, btw.
Pretty good man, I share the feeling! I still think about using it for email, specially since macOS mail sucks.
Thanks, mate. Good to know you're not alone 🙂
In case you want to have a look at my setup, I'm using davmail to bridge Outlook/EWS to IMAP & SMTP and mu4e for reading and sending in Emacs.
- Emacs mail conf: gitlab.com/skybert/my-little-friends/-/blob/master/emacs/.emacs#L443=
- Setting up DavMail: www.skybert.net/various/read-outlook-365-email-in-your-favourite-email-client/
@@skybert awesome, thanks! I’ll definitely check it out :)
I don't really see how using emacs for email is "extreme". Emacs's mail clients are kinda the best around, better than mutt for sure. It also makes perfect sense to use hotkeys you use to edit other text to edit mail text.
It all depends on perspective, doesn't it?
Working in an environment where everyone's using Outlook native clients with HTML-rich text mail only, I register a fair share of surprised faces when they see me using Emacs: "He's using Notepad for reading mail?!!".
Having to use davmail because of EWS only, is a bit of a pain, but the end result is worth it. Fast and clutter free email.
Exactly pal, notmuch user here. I used Thunderbird in the past however it lacks over various aspects.. switching n setting up a notmuch emacs config was a total game changer in my case. First of all, email searching at the speed of light 😎
It's not in the slightest "extreme." Emails (apart from those who insist on sending pseudo-emails - and those can be dealt with) are text. I use mu4e and can integrate emails and links to emails into org-mode, my agenda, in fact anywhere that Emacs goes. Rather than "extreme", it's entirely rational.
I want to really agree with you am at the start point of either learning vim or Emacs am finding really hard times with Emacs.
Leaving everything aside Emacs taking 10 seconds more than vim on older hardware.
It's really handy and so much extra work of pressing keys at the same time than ViM specially after seeing neovim replicating functionality Emacs with lua.
Then in vim a basic feature of cursor left in insert mode.
It can be handicapping for someone i don't want to know I can press I or A or a in such cases or you can press left-arrow when no one is seeing.
Yes, that's a tough choice. I'd say, use the one you like the best 😊
Vim will always be faster than Emacs, although gccemacs may improve some scenarios.
@@skybert thank you for understanding.
I am moving from Joplin. In emacs what's the best case for sync and encryption ? I learned the epa-encrypt-file with gpg yesterday how can I sync org files with Android with encryption and decryption on Android? Am using Dropbox as medium to sync. Found orgzly very handy app to handle this scenario of sync over Emacs to droid but sadly has no encryption or decryption option.
I consider my notes very sensitive like my life's earning I don't want to provide a loophole for it to be compromised.
Any input will be really obliged.
Try this for modern web dev. I love Emacs but damn is it painful to configure for any Typescript based NextJS projects.
I hear you. I think things are improving, but the out-of-the-box experience of Code & friends will always be ahead.
Check out my video on setting Emacs for JavaScript/TypeScript/Node development, including remote debugging in Firefox and tell me what you think: ruclips.net/video/Pc7ty1n68C0/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@skybert Nice dude, yeah I eventually gave up on my own config, and started tweaking my Spacemacs config instead.
I am only using my old Emacs config for Org mode these days.
Would you mind sharing your emacs configuration?
Not at all. Here it is: gitlab.com/skybert/my-little-friends/-/blob/master/emacs/.emacs
@@skybert That's brave. My Emacs init, though I have it under control in org-mode, has all sorts of junk in it. I'd be afraid that people would point and laugh :-D
i love emacs for email, not extreme at all. thousand times better than a web interface.
Happy to hear that. What do you use? mu4e?
@@skybert yes mu4e, I love the workflow! so fast!!
Personally, I think arrow keys are much more efficient. It only takes one key instead of combination of two keys. Same thing with C-a and C-e. I use home key and end key. Pgup and pgdn as well. I don't care about staying on home row, because most of the time I'm browsing the web and therefore I use my mouse more than my keyboard. I use Emacs because of cua mode and org mode. And it works in terminal.
Try Vimium to browse without using the mouse. By default it uses VIM key bindings but you can set up emacs-style shortcuts.
@@catavaran I used to use it a long time ago, but after thousands of hours of use, my j finger started to hurt and I realized that point and click, as well as a wheel plus extra buttons were much more efficient and had less pain on your fingers. It was a fun experience tho
First off, if you're happy with cua and org, that's great. Just keep on going that way. We all use Emacs the way we like best :-)
> arrow keys are much more efficient.
Even though you don't mind straying off home row to get a single keystroke, there are more navigation shortcuts than left, right, home and end. What about forward word? Forward block (jump to the end parenthesis or brace), forward sentence?
Also, I would like to challenge you to give it a week:
- spend an hour following the Emacs tutorial C-h t
- spend a week only using Emacs shortcuts for movement (no arrow keys, home or page up/down).
The second week, I will bet you're both a quite bit faster and also find that you spend less energy thinking about moving around and more time pondering what to write in your editor.
@@skybert Thanks, but no thanks. I've gone through the challenge a long time ago.
This is what I ended up with after years of experience.
Forward word: C-left or right. Forward paragraph: C-up or down. Forward parenthesis: M-left or right (this is not by default though). Forward sentence: Never thought of that one before.
With the arrow keys, it's intuitive, you don't need to stretch your fingers and you can do it with only one hand if you are feeling lazy. You can also select texts using shift and I think M-Shift-arrow is much better than C-M-Shift-f or b.
That said, I just realized that one of the biggest advantages of Emacs is the ability to map key bindings. So I guess any combination would be fine as long as it gets the job done.
@@didiwu8876 agree, I use arrows the way you mentioned too. Also I changed lots of key bindings to fit my needs, Emacs rocks with key bindings
I have used emacs for years. I still use it every day. But my excitement is gone, it's just an editor, but the only thing that suits me. I don't recommend using emacs shells because they suck. I use emacs in a Kitty terminal and I use arrow keys pretty often
Kitty is such a great terminal. I use it every day too!
Emacs shells? What are those?
Really weird that you use Emacs in a terminal, there's really no reason to use it that way when you have access to GUI
Do you think emacs will stay alive for more time because when I look at google trends, I see that it is still losing popularity and while I think emacs is great software, I wouldn't want to invest much time in it to see it die like atom for example
Hi Ice.
Great question! The short answer is yes, I believe so. I started out learning Emacs in 1999 and I'm still reaping the benefits of those initial 2 weeks where I just wanted to throw the keyboard in the wall. After that, things steadily improved and I've been improving my Emacs foo ever since.
The slightly longer answer is that since Emacs has such a hard core of devoted developers and users, I mean, *really* devoted, like Liverpool fans who'll support their theme even though they'd be relegated to 4th division, it'll always be updated and improved.
Emacs is different, and not hip. It'll never be. But this ensures that those few that *do* use and like Emacs, will continue to use it because it's always familiar, always available, on all platforms that you may use in your careeer.
There's a few good talks on the future of Emacs, see e.g.:
- emacsconf.org/2021/talks/forever/
- ruclips.net/video/KYcY7CcS7nc/видео.html
Cheers,
-Torstein
People are lying to themselfs when they talk about vim and emacs being more efficient. I don't think I'm faster than my colleges because I use Emacs. Sometimes i'm probably even slower. Highlighting something with a mouse can be faster but personally my soul hurts everytime I have to use a mouse, hah. There's nothing wrong with just liking an editor, like I use Emacs mostly because it gives me a reason to use lisp and I like lisp!
Hi Adrian,
> People are lying to themselfs when they talk about vim and emacs
> being more efficient. I don't think I'm faster than my colleges
> because I use Emacs.
Do note that this video is about "Why *I* use use Emacs in 2022", not
"Why *everyone* should use Emacs in 2022".
As for lying to myself: One of the points I'm trying to make in the
video, is that people choosing Emacs over more comfortable IDEs like
Visual Studio or IntelliJ is because they prioritise a stellar text
editing environment over all the bells and whistles (refactoring
tools, code assistance++) that the modern IDEs provide.
And when it comes to the efficiency of text editing, that's measurable
and thus no illusion.
> Sometimes i'm probably even slower. Highlighting something with a
> mouse can be faster but personally my soul hurts everytime I have to
> use a mouse, hah.
I'm curious to know what operations that would be. Could you create a
screen cast showing:
- edit text
- mark some text/expression
- edit text
in which it's apparent that it's faster using the mouse, rather than Emacs shortcuts?
> There's nothing wrong with just liking an editor, like I use Emacs
> mostly because it gives me a reason to use lisp and I like lisp!
That's good reason, indeed. I like Lisp too. Haven't programmed much
since the uni days, though.
60-65% keyboards
Yes, my dear HHKB is 60%.
@@skybert Over my summer break I have tried to make OmniSharp work but no success...
Otherwise It looks like an awesome IDE/OS
That's a pity. Have you tried posting on emacs.Stackexchange.com or on the issue tracker related to the lsp integration? (emacs-lsp.github.io/lsp-mode/page/lsp-csharp-omnisharp/)
@@skybert I have a 75% keyboard because I want proper function keys. I use a few in Emacs, but a lot in Stumpwm.
All those bloated editors, even including VSCode, just don't deliver the same reliability as having this, rather simple and minimalist, software on your fingertips.
True. I guess reliability is a good keyword: stable plugin API, stable (default) shortcuts, stable GUI/TUI. Across versions, across modes/contexts.
Indeed.
You're describing GNU Emacs as "minimalist"?!?!?!
Granted, I have a pretty pared down interface on Emacs, and everything is keyboard driven, but "minimalist", not a chance.
@@andrewwigglesworth3030 Compared to Visual Studio, hands down, yes, why not, I think it's fairly minimalistic.
pr໐๓໐Ş๓
?
reasons i dont use emacs:
i use windows
Despair not, there are official, native builds of Emacs for Windows: www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/efaq-w32.html#Which-versions-of-Windows
@@skybert wow thanks, imma give it a shot
@@stefanplusplus917 good luck!
Historically, being on Windows was just another reason for me *to* use emacs - eshell gave me a sane terminal without having to learn Powershell! Now I just use emacs on WSL2 and it's actually fantastic.
@@jwmcq I totally agree. Emacs is my home away from home whenever I have to use Windows.
Who gives shit what you use?
Many. People are amazing, eh?
just use vscode man
lol
Will it make my coffee?